I think of all the "What if" posts, this one carries the most weight. Great piece. How bout this for a What If...What if Holtz did leave in '91. Would Powlus have won a Heisman if we get a coach who is as pass-happy as Weis?
DomerOC | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 9:59 am | #

Gotta go with 73 New Years Eve game against 'Bama as a better game as that was for the national championship{ 2 storied programs, Ara and Bear etc.}

So, why aren't we playing them?
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 10:06 am | #

The last paragraph got me thinking: whoever wins the QB job by the end of this year will be Charlie's keystone. It will be that QB's job to lead this young-but-talented group of players to NDs first championship since Lou's keystone did it nearly 20 years ago.
Tom S | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 10:50 am | #

Best option QB ever and fave ND player ever.

Does Notre Dame have set rules for absolute minimum SAT or ACT scores?
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 11:10 am | #

"Rocket's Return" was not in the 1988 Miami game. It was in the 1990 game, after Miami had taken a 10-3 lead. I remember thinking to myself, "Boy, we could sure use a big return here..."
DJ | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 11:24 am | #

Unfortunately, as much as I love Tony Rice (I've met him a few times socially, and he even sent me an autographed, framed pic of himself for Xmas which I've now turned into a shrine) I would have to disagree that he was the greatest option QB of all time. Definitely top three at the worst, though I would say he's second.

No matter how much I love Tony, I just don't think anyone ever ran the option better than Tommy Frazier.

That said, few have had bigger (positive) impacts on Notre Dame football in my lifetime.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 11:39 am | #

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, Brad... or should I say TOM OSBOURNE?!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 12:37 pm | #

I am not sure why Kent Graham would have been able to go undefeated in '88 (I doubt it but you never know), but only 8-4 in '89. It may have been a tougher schedule, but if the team could go 12-0 in '88, then obviously the offense would have developed some chemestry. At any rate, Rice will probably always be my favorite Irish QB, as he led them to the only National Title in my memory and it followed so many years of frustration. At the age of 17, I was beginning to believe the Irish would never get it done, now thanks to Tony and the rest of the team, I am always optimistic about every season. Even after suffering through the Davie and Willingham years.
pups | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 12:54 pm | #

the '88 game was indeed the greatest of all time.

I think K.Graham's chance of running that table would've been much lower than 80%.

Graham was no Powlus or Mirer, and we saw how Lou and his staffs failed to make maximum use of those ample talents. That Miami team, which Jimmy Johnson has called perhaps his most talented, would've eaten Graham alive.

Moreover, the efficiency of the '88 defense was at least in part a function of the methodical option game Lou ran like a swiss watch. Substitute a slow footed, stumbling passing game for that option attack, and our defense would've been under greater pressure.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 1:26 pm | #

The schedule proved to be favorable to ND in 1988 and allowed the Irish to get into a good rhythm. ND played only 3 teams that finished ranked and they were spread out on the schedule. ND opens at home with Michigan, has the home game with Miami in the middle of the season and finishes at Southern Cal. The team got up for the big games and avoided letdowns. It also helped that MSU and PSU were down that year. It would be nice to have that kind of scheduling rhythm again in the future.

Here's a couple of more "what-ifs" to think about: What if Pete Bercich had held on to the interception late in the 4th quarter against BC in 1993? (Or if BC's kicker had missed the final FG attempt or if ND had not been penalized on the kickoff following their last touchdown, take your pick) What if there had been no clip called on Rocket's punt return at the end of the Orange Bowl on 1/1/91 (his last touch for ND? And what if George O'Leary's resume was error-free and he did not have to resign as ND's coach in 2001?
Franco | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 1:40 pm | #

Some interesting points. The most notable: 8 Irish opponents that year, a championship season, are classified by the "u" word.

Go Irish
Bill H. | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 1:42 pm | #

Also interesting that Notre Dame played Michigan, Penn State, Miami, and USC in the regular season.

The whole point of the posts about the schedule below is that this type of schedule will be nearly impossible in the future. It would be best to ignore the lazy strawman that we want ND to face 12 straight ranked opponents.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 2:05 pm | #

Also interesting that Notre Dame played Michigan, Penn State, Miami, and USC in the regular season.

Penn State and Miami were both independents at the time, enabling us to schedule them in late November and mid-October, respectively (I think we often played Miami on the road in November). Today, both teams would be in the midsts of their conference schedules (I'm not sure that the Big Ten would allow Penn State to schedule a non-conference game during a conference bye week).
DJ | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 3:42 pm | #

NCAA Football 08 Question,

Forgive me for hijacking a great 'what if' but I gots to know:

To my friends in the Nerdery - Can you play 2-player on the same team in ncaa football 08 - can you do it with a dynasty as well?

Thanks so much, and sorry
8 y/o geekzoid | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 4:26 pm | #

Very interesting articles.

I like the picture of Pete Giftopoulos making the interception for Penn State. I remember that play vividly. Pete actually hailed from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, which happens, by coincidence, to have been built by the steel business.

If memory serves, his family was in the undertaking business in Hamilton. Appropriate for a linbacker.

What if Rockne's plane had not crashed?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 5:24 pm | #

Ah, the what if game......

What IF: Frank Leahy hadn’t burned himself out?

What IF: Ara Parseghian could have some how got rested stuck it out?

What IF: Lou Holtz hadn’t made himself Persona non grata and been pushed out by the University?
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 6:11 pm | #

As for Ara I always speculate that Tom Pagna his OC would have been a worthy successer.{ even as a sub coach for one year}.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 7:52 pm | #

Jim :


Nope ND Alabama {73}...consider ND misses an extra point then passes for 2 to make it 14-7.

Bob Thomas makes a clutch field goal to make it 24 -23. and of course Clements passes from the end zone to basically his 3rd receiver{ WEber} after Demerle and Casper to allow ND to run the clock out.

While I still haven't seen a complete tape chek UTube for highlights.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 8:06 pm | #

seriously... couldn't score a 700?

wow. I mean, I know that was back before the scores started getting inflated (practically everyone my year had above a 1400), but 700?

Wow... that's all i can say.

And I would agree with the earlier post. Great as Rice was, Frazier was the best option QB ever. I had the pleasure of watching him dissect Florida in the Fiesta bowl. Will never forget it.
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 8:07 pm | #

I like the what if Bercich intercepts the pass against BC.That is the one what if I would have liked to have seen
Doug | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 9:09 pm | #

As for Ara I always speculate that Tom Pagna his OC would have been a worthy successor.{ even as a sub coach for one year}.

Frs. Hesburgh and Joyce offered Ara a one-year's sabbatical (it might have even been two), similar to that offered to professors. To my knowledge, such an arrangement had never been done before, and might have been the object of ridicule and criticism. Then again, ND could have relied on their long-standing independence, and said "we do things differently here; we don't care what anyone thinks, so long as it's the right thing to do."
DJ | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 9:48 pm | #

Nice post, Dylan. Always love this site. It kicks ass! From what little I saw of Kent Graham playing, I have to disagree though -- I just couldn't see him taking our team to the NC in those years. Tony Rice was the ideal fit for our players at the time, but maybe I'm just too dazed in the glory of that crazy-ass backfield -- has there ever in the history of college football been such a stable of great backs over the course of four years?? Or maybe I remember that 1-yard interception that Kent Graham threw in the Penn State game all too well in '87 when he had a chance to be a hero. Or maybe it's because I can't get the fact that Graham's ass was bigger than our O-lineman at the time (remember that? C'mon, I know I wasn't hallucinating) and someone with that big an ass simply couldn't win a NC at QB. ;-)

Incidentally, the reason T. Rice came to Notre Dame was because of Lou Holtz' stint as the coach of Minnesota. Also, it wasn't like Holtz was unfamiliar with running the option (not that you implied that, just that I don't know if many realize that). What I mean to say is that the Minnesota Gopher's option offense ran quite effectively with a fellow named Ricky Foggy when Holtz ran the show up north. Foggy was awesome. And I believe it was him (Ricky) who brought up recruiting T. Rice to Holtz. The story I heard was that Foggy played bball with T. Rice in the summers and bragged about what a great athlete he was. Holtz reportedly never saw T. Rice even play football, only bball -- but that was enough. The rest is history.
LostBobO | Email | Homepage | 07.26.07 - 10:31 pm | #

Nice post.

Do you think the biggest problem Powlus had was Holtz? You think if he was smart enough to pick a school with a system more suited to him he would've got those two trophies?


Also, do you think it's possible to love ND, love Holtz, Love Rice, yet Hate the option offense?
Irish4eva | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 1:00 am | #

Great post. I grew up about 15 mins. from campus, on the Mich.-IN state line. My dad still lives in the S. Bend area and we frequently run into Tony at local pubs. (I've heard he still lives in the S. Bend area…no confirmation though.) You can usually run into him on away games down at the new BW-3's on Grape Rd. What's funny is he walks around and enjoys himself just like you or me. Most of the people in the pub probably don't even realize who he is.
I got into an argument with a Va. Tech fan once regarding who was the better college QB, Vick or Rice. Now, before any jumps in my grill, I know Vick didn't really run a true option where Rice did, but it was an interesting debate none the less. Going by the numbers, Rice had him beat...but Vick didn't start as many years and left school a year early. With that being said, here's a "What If" that has always come up during a game of corn hole while tailgating at an ND game...

What if Tony Rice played in today's College Football genre and was just as successful? Would he have graduated and still gone to the now disbanded NFL Europe, or would he have been a top 10 pick in the NFL...ala to Vince Young?
ND_Clutch | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 7:57 am | #

Nobody's mentioned the counterpoint--where would Rice have gone? I have no idea who else was on his list, but being as he's from South Carolina, I'm guessing Clemson would have been high up there--would they've won an ACC title or more, as this was before the FSU takeover?
Nate | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 8:14 am | #

Tony Rice as ND's first AA quarterback?
How about a fellow named Cliff Brown. He started QB the year after Theismann graduated if my ancient memory still works correctly.

I could be wrong. It was a long time ago.
dbldomer7375 | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:17 am | #

dbldomer, you're right about Cliff Brown being the first black QB to start a game for ND. However, he wasn't the first "full time" starting QB -- Brown took over for Bill Etter for a few games after Etter got hurt, but then was beaten out by Clements the next year. Here's a bit from Somogyi on that QB race (and others):
http://www.blueandgold.com/conte...ntent/? aid=3363
Jay | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 1:24 pm | #

tangentially, i think it's between holloway and frazier as best option qb of all time...FWIW
kj | Email | Homepage | 07.30.07 - 2:45 pm | #