Awesome.

Do you have a non-subscription link to Matt Cashore's photos?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 1:56 pm | #

Oops, I thought his pictures were free. Apparently you need a rivals subscription to see them. I'll keep the link though for those that have an account.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 2:18 pm | #

I've been quite impressed with the little bit I've seen of Hughes this season. He ought to be the starting tailback next year. I'm making the personnel decisions now. Thank you.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 3:27 pm | #

Is anybody else mad as hell that any time at all was spent at practice installing 10 plays for Tommy Zibikowski to run at QB. That is utter and complete CYO bullshit and the kind of stuff that make it harder and harder for me to defend this guy.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 3:47 pm | #

It doesn't bother me too much. Considering Zibby has been in Weis's system for three years, I'm sure he's pretty familiar with it, so I doubt there was a lot of "installing" going on.

In fact, those looked like plays that were probably originally designed for D. Jones. And that's a whole other story...
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 3:54 pm | #

I'm not jdubbs. During the bye week when Sharpley was the starter and Clausen was banged up, Charlie spent two periods putting in 10 plays for Zibby as emergency QB.

It's not really the big deal that many fans are making it out to be. The OL still worked on blocking during those periods. The WRs still worked on blocking during those periods. And I doubt that it had much of an effect on Zibby's ability to play safety. Keep in mind that most of the plays were the same ones that the team worked on when Jones was still on the team.

It's not a big deal at all. In fact, I think it was great.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 3:57 pm | #

Here is some news. I was walking past the stadium today and they started tearing out the grass already. From what I could tell, the north end-zone had been completely torn out.
ND17 | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:08 pm | #

Are they putting in grass or field turf?
David | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:29 pm | #

Personally, I enjoyed seeing Zibbie get to run the offense. It was just a little thank you to a guy who gave a lot during his ND career. And as Pat pointed out, CW would've put in some plays for him anyway as an emergency backup -- it is not inconceivable that both Clausen and Sharpley could go down in the same game.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:33 pm | #

At the time, during the bye week, there was no guarantee Clausen was going to be available for the rest of the year, so Charlie needed to get a backup ready in case of injury to Sharpley.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:40 pm | #

isn't that what Bragg was there for?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:41 pm | #

I agree that it is totally conceivable for the Irish QBs to go down playing behind that O-Line. I am less mad, however, what does ND owe Tommy Zibikowski? He will have received three years of playing time on National TV every week. A 51 second summer job that payed him a nice amount of coin. Why? Because of his abilities as a boxer? No, because he played for ND. I haven't even mentioned a degree from the finest University in the land. Here's what ND didn't get from Zibby. Adequite play as Safety the past two seasons. He is a big part of the issues ND secondary has had. When is he going to make somebody miss this season returning punts? He is also one of a handful of 5th year seniors who have been the leadership in this dreadful campaign IMO I believe that he along with, Travis Thomas, Joe Brockington, and John Carlson have let this team down. Charlie told the world that tradition never graduates when the season started. He had Trevor Laws effort and performance in his mind when he made that comment. If he knew what he was getting out of the other fifth year guys i don't think he would have made the statement.
In closing, to be honest, the pain of this season is still too fresh for me to honor the contribution of Zibby. He ended Charlie's first season with an All American nod and now he has slipped into a probable second day draft pick. I think that sums up his entire career at ND
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 4:51 pm | #

Anon, Charlie commented on the Zibby-as-emergency-QB thing in the Sunday press conference. The way I understood his answer was that he wanted something different that he could try if he wasn't getting anything out of Bragg (in the event that Sharpley had gone down).

I'd assume that the Zibby package was pretty close to identical to the Jones package, so I don't guess it was a big deal for the offense, especially if (and I don't know if this is or isn't the case) the blocking schemes are the same as for normal run plays.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 5:02 pm | #

Are they putting in grass or field turf?

Grass. George Toma, the sod guru from Kansas City who has overseen the preparation of every Super Bowl field, is reportedly overseeing the project.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 5:03 pm | #

Wednesday,
Unfortunately, these two offenses are traditionally run with entirely different blocking schemes. The spread as it is called is predicated on various traps with angle blocks set up through ball handling. Meanwhile, Nd run offense is more NFL like offense with stretchs, dives, and isolations. In this scheme, you will often see offensive lineman work in tandem double teaming a D Lineman with one of the men scraping off and picking up the LB or Safety.

This is important to note because I believe it really sums up our offensive woes this year. Charlie spent much of the summer installing a Clausen, Sharpley offense and a DJ offense. As a coach, it is your job to put kids in a position to succeed. Asking 4 sophomores to master not one but 2 college offenses is an exercise in futility. When people point out that Charlie has not adjusted fully from the pros to college, I believe it is decisions such as this one of which they are referring.

Any coach will tell you that your philosophy is something that can be tweaked and altered but not in the middle of a season. Because of the uncertainty of the QB position, and Charlie's response to this uncertainty, we have witnessed the worst year of ND football in my memory. I question why DJ was brought in as a recruit if this was the plan for utilizing him. Square peg round hole. The O line that has been recruited is made of prototypical NFL lineman type. Big hulking frames that make them successful as road graters and pass protectors.

Many of the schools running the spread now do so out of neccessity because of their inability to recruit the previously mentioned O lineman prototype (see West Va.)

Here is the good news. In spite of what I just wrote I believe every thing is correctable through commitment and hardwork and nothing ensures that response more than having to live through the embarrassment of this season. Charlie Weis has not forgotten how to coach football, but he is a work in progress. It is the risk u take when you hire someone to have their first ever head coaching job(beyond NJ h.s.)at the University of ND.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 5:23 pm | #

Don't sugarcoat it Jim.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 8:05 pm | #

It's nice to see the seniors win their last game at home.

Was Zibby in the game at QB as a joke, or were we out of quarterbacks? I missed the second half. Any info will be appreciated.
Hutch | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 8:57 pm | #

By the way, I'm just a twelve year old kid, so don't yell at me for missing the second half.
Hutch | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 8:59 pm | #

Was Zibby in the game at QB as a joke, or were we out of quarterbacks? I missed the second half. Any info will be appreciated.

By the way, I'm just a twelve year old kid, so don't yell at me for missing the second half.

Did you at least get out and exercise or at least have some fun? No shame in that at all...

In response to your question, Weis stated in the Sunday presser that they had a package of 10 plays created for Zibby to run in case of a dire emergency (Clausen and Sharpley hurt, Bragg ineffective). Zibby was a QB in high school. You'll notice that the plays were kind of like the offense that they ran with Demetrius Jones in the Georgia Tech game, so the linemen weren't doing anything out of the ordinary.

Plus, even though he is a sour-tempered, foul-mouthed guy, Weis is also a softy. He wanted to give a well-liked player a fun memory to go out on. And it worked. Everyone on the ND sideline got a kick out of it.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 9:17 pm | #

Ol' Charlie has the engines firing on all cylinders. It takes a lot of time and effort to turn coal into diamonds. Patience is the key.
Lucky The Leprechaun | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 9:39 pm | #

Hutch, you made my day. Hopefully your teenage years will be happy ones as an Irish fan.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 9:59 pm | #

Are there any Aggie-type people who can explain to me why ND would be ripping up sod and replacing it in late November? When I first read about the sod being removed, my first impulse was, "Yeah, tear it up and burn it. Then spray disinfectant all over everything. Then have an exorcism. Then cut a hole in the North wall and let Touchdown Jesus see inside the stadium again. Then purchase new sod from Vatican City, have it blessed by the Pope. Then invite our Heisman winners, All-Americans, and National Champion teams to walk around and spit onto the soil." That was my first impulse. So why remove and replace sod NOW? And, btw, Toma is a freaking legend!
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 10:25 pm | #

So why remove and replace sod NOW?

I'm no Aggie, but one can replace sod this late in the year. It'll probably be covered with a tarp and heated a bit until the roots take. On a related note, Roger Bossard, the White Sox groundskeeper, just finished laying the sod on the re-built playing surface at Wrigley Field.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 10:30 pm | #

Voice in the "old days," lot & lots of hay or straw acted an an incubator & allowed the roots to take hold.
When does growing season start in No. Indiana? If they laid new sod after the Spring game, would 3-4 months allow for a firm field?
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 10:56 pm | #

Thanks DJ and jim masterson. It's just counter-intuitive to me that anyone would try to plant any live thing on the soon-to-be frozen tundra of South Bend in late November. Thanks for splainin why it is being done right now! Mucho grass-ias!
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 11:10 pm | #

After re-reading your reply jim, I think you might be as confused as I am (I hope for your sake that is not true!). Anyway, big props to DJ, and anyone else who might chime in on why we lay sod in November. Toma re-sods stadiums only a few days before Super Bowls are played, and miraculously they "take" and seem to fare well. That's why I would think that soding in Spring would allow ample time to root well before August. I am sure that i am boring everyone to tears, and in fact, my eyes are welling up a little bit, too.

As I veer even further off topic, I am quickened to remember the classic bumper sticker from the early 70's: "Gas, Grass or Ass. Nobody Rides for Free."
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 11:24 pm | #

One quick question for DJ and I will never talk about sod again...Why is a White Sox employee laying the sod at Wrigley Field?
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 11:35 pm | #

Great pictures. Wonder if he can run a video camera?
Mattw | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 12:47 am | #

Is that George Toma pere or fils. I'm 66 A& thought the older Toma was ten years my senior at least.
Voice I'm confused every moment of every day.
My dad a '27 grad of ND & a runner on Rock's track teams, had us lay sod one Nov. & layered hay on top of it. North Central NJ. Still the best lawn in Elmora.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:32 am | #

I was told by a lawn expert years ago to plant grass in the winter, the roots grown deeper because of the colder weather. There is less of a chance of getting fungus growing in the grass then. Why not go with field turf? Blue end zones with Notre Dame in one and Fighting Irish in the other with ND in the middle of the field all in gold. Grass fields in the north, especially now, seem to tear up a lot more than they used to in the past.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 6:38 am | #

Not to beat a dead horse, and no need to reiterate jdubb's take on Zibby's performance (which I happen to agree with), but I would have rather seen Bragg (a senior) get in the game. Zibby had a lot of great moments on that field. I like when the seniors who didn't have so many of those moments get on the field on Senior Day.

More to the point, I moved to San Diego so I can resod my lawn whenever the hell I need to.
banjomatt | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 6:53 am | #

banjo; I lived for five years at the Grand Colonial Hotel. 910 Prospect St. La Jolla.
Loved it.
They say the ash is great for growing grass.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 8:19 am | #

Remember that the super bowl fields Toma has prepped a few days prior to the big game only need to last one game, not an entire season. From everything I know about lawn care, now is the best time to lay the sod and make sure it's ready for a full season next year.

Also, it's still warm in Indiana compared to what it could be :)
erin | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:26 am | #

I was amused to see Matt Cashore in front of an NBC on-field camera several times right after the game ended. I don't think I've seen him since Alumni Hall days, 1990-94, but I've probably seen thousands of his photos since then. I bet there's tens of thousands who know his name and have no idea what he looks like!
ndfunfax | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:51 am | #

I can't understand why people are so down on Zibby. Here is a guy who started four seasons, broke the record for tackles by a defensive back, recorded 7 interceptions and returns 7 balls for touchdowns. Not to mention the countless forced fumbles he caused. On top of all that, he has more time on the field than any other player this year.

I thought putting him in at QB was not only a lot of fun, but a nice way to send off a player who has given his all to ND. I am hardly a Zibby apologist, but after reading all the knocks, I felt compelled to say something.

As for Bragg, I too, would have liked to have seen him get a shot as well. But don't forget, that he walked away with an extra year of scholarship for doing nothing but playing on the scout team. Kudos to all the seniors who bust their ass to give us all something to talk about 12 weeks of the year.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:53 am | #

Dubbs;

When's Zbikowski going to make somebody miss on a punt return this year?

Did you catch the Penn State game?
Did you see the Navy game?

I'm sure Tom's very sorry he hasn't returned every single punt for a touchdown this year. Sometimes, the punter's are very clever and talented and punt the ball so there is no chance of a return. Sometimes, the Irish defense hasn't provided the stop that precipitates the punt.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:09 am | #

Just a note as a band member -

That 360 camera guy was really in the way during pregame, and nobody knew what the hell he was doing there... but I think the video's so cool that I'll give it a pass. Make sure you check it out!
Grengle | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:13 am | #

Duh: punters, not punter's.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:28 am | #

BGS = Best Gardening Site
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:33 am | #

Bragg did get in the game. Isn't there another walk-on Sr. QB?
Gabe | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:35 am | #

Maybe I'm just a little green when it comes to agriculture, but I haven't been this bored in a really lawn time. I mean, reading these comments has been about as exciting as watching grass grow. Please spare this poor sod and field these lawncare questions elsewhere! Alright maybe I'm being a bit too turf, but I'm afraid if I give you guys an inch you might take a yard. Hay-o! But seriously folks, I hope this new grass is Irish so there won't be any question who it roots for.
Red | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:10 am | #

Wocka Wocka Wocka!
Fozzi Bear | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:29 am | #

Since so many are head coaches in the making at ND, I am glad there will be no shortage of applicants among the posters on The Blue-Gray Sky when CW leaves.
Ted | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:37 am | #

I noted that Tom Zibikowski had shown promise in Charlie's first year, but like so many of Ty's players, he has hit a wall that his talent could not overcome. I am sick of watching a play fake and before the camera can pan to the defensive backfield already knowing that Zibby will have been turned around chasing an opposing receiver. How can you root for a return to glory and then celebrate mediocrity? Is he a great kid? Sure. He has contributed to 4 Irish teams. 1 Bad, 2 that were almost good enough, and 1 awful. He was a big piece of us not getting over the hump. I would have rather seen one of the talented freshmen or sophomore skill people get an opportunity to return punts. We will agree to disagree. I see him as the leader of two of the worst secondary's in Irish history. When I think about about Zibby he will be the face of those two defenses that got lit up by OSU, LSU, Mich, USC. His unit is what stood between being a real national title contender and just a solid team. Somebody rattled off interception numbers and Td numbers. Somebody help me here! Who knows the breakdown of Tommy's production during his last two years and Charlie's first year? I would venture to say that he had more Ints and Tds 3 years ago than in the last two seasons combined. He is also a team captain on the worst team in Nd history. Should we be as bad as 2-9 right now? No. He and other fifth year senior leaders are part of reason for this debacle.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:46 am | #

I for one will miss this season.
Where else could I read such hilarity.
Don't desert Best Gardening Site in the off season.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 12:00 pm | #

Why is a White Sox employee laying the sod at Wrigley Field?

Bossard has a patented drainage system that he has contracted to install in a bunch of parks, including Fenway, New Busch, and now, Wrigley. He does this with full approval of the White Sox.

And that's the last time I'LL talk about grass. :)
:) :) :)
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 12:16 pm | #

I can't believe ESPN doesn't have us in their "power rankings." We beat Duke AND UCLA, and we didn't get crap out of it.
Anti ND bias strikes again.
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 12:30 pm | #

Putting Zibby in at QB was meant to be fun. And it was fun, for those of us who have a sense of humor. Would it have been nice if Bragg got a couple more snaps, or if Gillett got any snaps at all? Yeah, well, talk to Travis Thomas about that. If he hadn't fumbled, maybe they would have. Zibby deserved to be rewarded for five years of hard work. Everyone in the secondary played badly in '05 and '06; don't blame it all on him.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 1:13 pm | #

He was the one touted as the All American that put weight on to box and quite frankly has never been the same as a football player since. I am not saying that the two are neccessarily related but I think it goes much deeper than coincidence.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 1:31 pm | #

I am starting to question people on this site, can't we just accept one good win? It was all meant to be fun. By the way the freshmen are looking really good. I hope I see more of Hughes, Armando Allen next game.Go irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 1:45 pm | #

No, Zibby hasn't played well since '05. I'm certainly not arguing with that. But I'd rather have a guy who actually contributed to the team in a starting capacity for years (and actually thought about leaving the team yet didn't) get a reward for his hard work than a guy who, to be honest, never really did anything in a game and actually left the team for a period of time.

And Jean, you're right. I think some people are so used to having something to whine about after every game that they feel the need to make stuff up to be unhappy about after a win. Pretty pathetic if you think about it.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:07 pm | #

"Putting Zibby in at QB was meant to be fun. And it was fun, for those of us who have a sense of humor."

FUN? All well and good--except that you have (1) an opponent, (2) a future schedule of opponents, and (3) a bench full of guys (including a scholarship QB) who strapped it on every day and worked just as GD hard as Zibby.

Putting Zibby in when you have an able-bodied QB on the bench--and then perpetuating the joke even in the face of a humiliating penalty because you botched the substitution--was an insult to Duke, to Bragg, to every other kid who practiced hard and never got Zibby's face time, and to Notre Dame's proud tradition of grace and integrity. I hope you guys all keep your yuks in mind the next time somebody runs up the score on ND, or otherwise enjoys a good chuckle at our expense--and I hope somebody on the field reminds them of this little charade when it happens.

I've been a fan for 44 years now, and that little charade in the face of such a deplorable season was, in my view, a disgrace; I physically got up and left the stadium in disgust.
1842 | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:18 pm | #

You know what? I have no idea if it was disrespectful to Duke or unsportsmanlike or not. And you know what else? I don't care, because it was Senior Day, and frankly I care more about making a player on my favorite team happy and rewarding him for all the hard work he's put in than I care about Duke. A lot of the reason I admire Notre Dame is because of the university's sportsmanship and respect for their opponent. But it's going a sight too far to actually care MORE about your opponent than you do about your own team.

And I also wouldn't care one bit if Stanford did the same thing to us next week. I would be glad if someone on their team was given the same opportunity Zibby got. And if they run up the score on us, then we should have stopped them. I really don't care.

Yes, it was FUN. Bragg himself seemed to be having fun when he did, in fact, get a couple reps in and then did a belly slide on the grass. It certainly seems like he didn't have much to complain about.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:47 pm | #

"I hope you guys all keep your yuks in mind the next time somebody runs up the score on ND, or otherwise enjoys a good chuckle at our expense--and I hope somebody on the field reminds them of this little charade when it happens."

This comment nicely showcases what is so insane about people whining about Zibby at QB. CW in fact did not run up the score on his opponent. Actually, he put in an option QB to play ball control and run out the clock. He did, in fact, the exact opposite of running up the score. And Duke actually scored on its next drive b/c of TT's fumble.
Hey, if CW had put the waterboy in at QB, or Charlie Jr., or Powlus, hey, go ahead and leave the stadium. But Zibby has played actually QB for crying out loud.
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:57 pm | #

read:

But Zibby has actually played QB for crying out loud.

*oops*
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 2:58 pm | #

Hey 1842, is that the year you were born? Your "get off my lawn" attitude seems consistent with that.

44 years is a long time to be a crappy fan. My advice...chill out.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 3:15 pm | #

Since we've gotten to the point where we're all just bitching about whether or not Zibby should have played QB for 2 minutes during his last game at ND stadium, I don't feel too bad about hijacking this thread.

I'm actually surprised no one has brought this up yet, and I'm sure the BGS guys are just waiting for more info before posting a write up. LLLLoyd retired from UofM yesterday. Speculation for his successor remains open, with Les Miles of LSU a potential front runner. Among other articles is this one:

In case the HTML didn't work:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/ne...ov=ap& type=lgns
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 3:35 pm | #

Just to add to the fun-- check this out -- Rivals rated the top 100 nfl prospects-- Carlson 62 and Zibby 75 (at DB not QB). No mention of Laws.

http://collegefootball.rivals.co...1144& CID=719772


I just don't see Zibby in the NFL. Guess it shows you what a great year at ND can do for you, even if the next two don't measure up. Can't believe Laws isn't on it.
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 4:35 pm | #

I would be shocked if Laws doesn't get drafted on the first day. ND is downright awful this year, so we're not getting a lot of positive press, but how can you not notice the only D-lineman to be in the top 100 for total tackles? It's not like he's had one of those "quiet" years, he's mentioned all the time on TV. NFL agents will notice his size, speed, technique, success, and above all: his HEART, determination, and work ethic.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 4:49 pm | #

Is it even possible for a 1 and 9 team to disrespect another 1 and 9 team?
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 5:18 pm | #

CW & Les Miles' seemed to have alot of respect for one another.
Does Miles' bolt LSU, where he seems to have continued Saban's locking down of La.'s best recruits to go home to Mich.?
DC; 1842 probably kept the baseball's & tennis ball's that found their way on to his lawn.
Wocka, wocka, wocka.
Thanks fozzi bear.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 6:13 pm | #

I am just sick of the criticism of Zibby and Weis' call to put him in at QB. He never gives up on the field and here is everyone saying how horrible he is. Yeah he has not played up to the potential that he showed in 05, but he never stopped fighting. He is just as pissed off at the horrible season as we all are.

As for being a QB, if you know his history, the last time he was a QB in his high school state championship he fumbled the ball and lost the game. I can imagine how badly he wanted to get his hands on the ball just one more time. I can just imagine him bugging Charlie to just give him one chance.

He is a great kid has been a fantastic representative of the University for the past 5 years. He has a foundation that gives to multiple charities and talks about how important it is for him to give back. Tommy will be an example of ND's greatness for his entire life, whether he plays in the NFL or not.

Charlie repaid Zibby for his dedication to Notre Dame both on and off the field and I applaud him for it!
IrishGal | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 6:43 pm | #

Dan Wenger
To me
is a better center
than Sully

but ya nice pictures
Austin | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 6:54 pm | #

I don't give a rat's ass about Zibby's history. He's a great player and I love watching him. Irrelevant. Putting him into the game at QB with Bragg on the bench WAS an insult to Duke, to many of his own team-mates, and to the Tradition. You pups all need to grow up a little bit and understand what you're heirs to. This isn't "bitching." "Bitching" is the sort of ill-considered second guessing of play-calling and the like that goes on here. This is about the face that my alma mater--which is supposed to stand for character and integrity everywhere, at all times, including when nationally televised on Saturday afternoon--presents to the world. Charlie besmirched that face. Maybe you're a subway alum and think it's funny or quaint to care about that. Maybe you're just still a backsliding 20-something who thinks life is all about the Ws and the puffery. All fine. If you don't care about the University's reputation and the conspicuous place that this game has long had in it, however, then YOU are the crappy fan, my friend.
1842 | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 7:05 pm | #

Since the topic has been raised again, I'll try to explain why I posted a negative comment or two about Zibby at QB. To me, it felt like the Irish had finally won a game outright, as opposed to the UCLA give-away game. Sort of like when a team or player finally gets to the end zone, I'd rather see a reasonable celebration and not a Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens type of circus show. To me, playing Zibby at QB felt like a circus show that the Irish really had not earned the right to perform.

Having read many articles and comments since the game, it's clear that my reaction was very much in the minority, and I'm fine with that. I certainly think that Zbikowski gave his best to the University and the team, and for that I am grateful.

Speaking of things that rub me the wrong way, how about that Les Miles? He'd be a perfect fit for Michigan, in that regard.
Lou ntL | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 7:28 pm | #

seriously
guys chill out about the
Zibby thing

fucken geez

its his last time playing on the field

i mean people are just being uptight

be glad with the damn win!
Austin | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 7:45 pm | #

"Maybe you're a subway alum and think it's funny or quaint to care about that. Maybe you're just still a backsliding 20-something who thinks life is all about the Ws and the puffery. All fine. If you don't care about the University's reputation and the conspicuous place that this game has long had in it, however, then YOU are the crappy fan, my friend."

1842--you're not doing such a fantastic job representing ND yourself, hotshot.
You should meet up with O$Uisrighteous sometime and the two of you can exchange tall tails of your battles with otherwise reasonable people over the internet.
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 7:48 pm | #

I think if you look at Zibby at QB and the victory lap afterwards....yeah it looked bush league to me too.[and yeah I'm an alum as well.}
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 7:59 pm | #

So I'm reading today's San Jose Mercury news & there's a letter to the sports dept. from BGS's Jim Dougherty, ND 1962.ND Law- 1966. It is amazing. Big Jim really rips into CW again and again.
I see his last post here was deleted.
It's just Jim ranting.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 8:31 pm | #

I understand why it is irksome to some that Zibby played QB in the waning moments of his last home game. And I also see where Pat is coming from when he said [paraphrasing] that he found it to be harmless frivolity for a kid who has given so much to the program over the last five seasons. When I was watching it as it was happening, I was thinking that Charlie sure doesn't give a crap what anybody says or thinks. With all the blunders that have occurred this season, and with a 2-9 record to show for it, I simply could not believe that Charlie would be in such a playful, light-hearted mood. Try to imagine Parcells doing that under similar circumstances. You can't. It was similar to Belichick's allowing Doug Flutie to attempt a drop kick in the closing moments of a game a couple of years ago. The difference was that the Patriots had just had a typical winning season, and Belichick, the historian, wanted to see something happen in a game that had not occurred since about 1940. And it was funny. Performed by a former Heisman Trophy winning, overachieving, backup QB. Playing Zibby was harmless, did not mock Duke, and will be forgotten primarily because it was just another blunder in a season of blunders. But I am confounded by the man who chose to let his players goof around on national TV after such a disappointing and dismal season. After all the great, legitimate things that Zibby has done, I would assume that both he and Charlie would be embarrassed by the whole episode.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 8:40 pm | #

1842 - "Putting him into the game at QB with Bragg on the bench WAS an insult to Duke, to many of his own team-mates, and to the Tradition."

Can you explain why you feel this way? I'm trying really hard to make sense out of any of your inane ramblings here, but am having a hard time doing so.

Tommy Z. played his heart out for this team for what seems like forever. To have a little fun on his senior night is far from the felonious act that you're making it out to be. Bragg got into the game, albeit a bit later than he wanted due to Travis Thomas.

Maybe you're forgetting that Z. played quarterback in high school, and was recruited by Nebraska to do so for them as well. Either way, stop whining.
Brian | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:00 pm | #

Voice, I can understand what you are saying, but these guys deserved to blow off a little steam. It would have made a difference if the team was 9-2? Bragg got into the game, he was a scout team QB all season and generally scout team players dont get in, he seemed to be enjoying himself. !842, I take offense to your reference about subway alumni, I have been an ND fan every bit as long as you and would sit and talk ND football with you on any given day of the week.I dont think that the university's reputation is going to take as big a hit about this as it already has about the Willingham firing, the handling of Lou Holtz's leaving, the dismissal of Ross Browner, Willie Fry and Luther Bradley from the team in 1974, this is not a catastrophic moment in ND football history, believe me. As far as Jim Dougherty I hope he enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame. Blowing off steam is one thing, to have that printed you better be backing things with solid facts and not assumptions. I always wanted to be called a ND alumnus, some of you make me glad I'm not.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:07 pm | #

Brian, not just every alum, but anyone who has ever or will ever attach themselves to ND. I have been a fan for more than 40 years and my father since Rockne. I bleed blue and gold, I have cried over losses and victories alike, I was there when Tony Dorsett gained 303 yards against the Irish and tears rolled down my cheeks. An article like this makes me every bit as angry as you, to think that someone would take this license because he is a graduate of the finest university in America is very disheartening. I love Notre Dame and I am as proud of her alumni as I am of her football team, I have many friends who graduated from the university, I am sorry that an alumnus feels like he has to write this type of diatribe.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:45 pm | #

Couldnt have said it better Doug. I myself didnt attend ND - academically I had no shot - but it's funny how the longer you watch the games, and the more times you visit the campus, you feel attached somehow.

One of the best experiences in my life was a game saturday in South Bend. After being blown off by our original host, we met up with a guy who I worked with at a restaurant the summer before.

He welcomed us to his Fisher hall room and even found somewhere else for himself to sleep so we could be in comfort - in his room! The next morning, at a very hungover 6am, we heard singing outside and needless to say were very confused. That was when we learned that the girls dorms serenade the guys dorms to get them out of bed and to the tailgate! I don't know if this is a regular happening, but man, if you've never had that experience, you're missing out.

Every once in a while, and especially when I attend games on campus, I get a bit jealous of the students. They don't know what they have until they wake up on a Saturday after graduating and cant waltz over to ND Stadium for a classic game day experience. Once my jealousy washes over, I just feel happy for them.

I haven't been rooting for the Irish for as long as some people on here, after all, I'm only 26 yrs old, but they are the only team I can ever remember rooting for in the college ranks (besides my alma mater, which doesnt even have a football team, what was I thinking not going to a football school?).

OK I'm way off base here and forget what my original point was so I'll stop.

I'll be at the Stanford game this Saturday, who's got the tailgate?
Brian | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 9:54 pm | #

Doug,

From the standpoint of a fellow subway, great post, especially your conclusion. Why can't a 1-9 team enjoy a little lightness in an otherwise dark and dismal season? IMO, if we were 9-1, the Zibby substitution might come off as obnoxious. Sadly, we are not...so what the hell? We've embarrassed ourselves plenty on national TV this year; this wasn't one of those times.

My family and I have been fans of this university and what it stands for our entire lives. Sometimes, our fierce loyalty feels like a curse! But the neurotic, quick-to-judge viciousness of some of its fan base is offputting.

A ticket became available to me for the Standford game. It will mean an hour plane ride back and forth the same day (with an elevated fare), but I plan to enjoy the last of the worst season I've ever experienced, and I hope the players do, too.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:06 pm | #

Voice - "With all the blunders that have occurred this season, and with a 2-9 record to show for it, I simply could not believe that Charlie would be in such a playful, light-hearted mood."

The last home game of such an abysmal season - it would have been criminal for Charlie not to lighten up. Whether it was a kids last home game, or his first home victory they all deserved a full-on 100% untainted home victory, and to see their coach ecstatic about their play.

Weiss would have gained nothing by playing the hard ass at the end of the game ( earlier in the season? sure ). But at this point, cheer the kids up and let them know that if they win against Stanford they will be the first ND team to do that since 1992!
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:15 pm | #

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Jim Dougherty doesn't like Charlie Weis.

I like the fact that he quoted Dan Devine's pre-USC '77 statement, though.

Mr. Dougherty, I think, is a bit mad. Maybe he came by it honestly, though. This year's record is enough to test any true fan's sanity.

Brian, thanks for posting that snippet of what it's like to be on campus on gameday. You may find yourself a little jealous of the ND students, but I'm a little jealous of you for having soaked up that atmosphere.

I've never even been to Indiana, but I've loved Notre Dame football since I could understand what it was.

My Dad's high school coach spent a season shadowing (or maybe today they would call it 'stalking') Frank Leahy. This guy actually used to drive behind the Notre Dame bus on road trips, and then he ended up coaching my Dad's Catholic high school football team in Canada.

And from a link as tenuous as this, I get this affliction where I care really deeply about how the Irish do. Nothing changes. Victories and defeats make me feel exactly as elated and crushed as I felt when I was nine.

I just hope it's a long time, maybe the day after forever, before I see another Notre Dame team play a game where I know and they know that by rights they should give up their fabled nickname.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:29 pm | #

The criticism of Weis being foul-mouthed is a bit mystifying. Did anyone ever talk to any of the coaches or players who hung around Ara and Lou? You might be surprised to hear what came out of their mouths of these two great coaches.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:34 pm | #

Two distinct and defensible points of view on the TZ thing. Can't we accept that and move on? The enemy is not within, folks. Whether you were a student at the Our Lady's University or always wanted to be makes no difference to me if your love for Notre Dame is heartfelt and sincere, which I believe is the case for all of us here. 1842, Doug, Voice, Jim M, Shadow, DCDomer -- I love you all and think you make this just about the best blog ever. Let's not devolve into personal put downs just because we don't see eye-to-eye on something. That is not worthy of us or the school we love wholeheartedly. As Thanksgiving approaches I'd like to say I'm thankful for the BGS creators and contributors -- you've made even a hard year like this one fun --- and I'm thankful to have been blessed with the opportunity to be associated with ND as a student, alum, and fan. Happy Thanksgiving to you all. And our hearts forever...
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:41 pm | #

Love Thee Notre Dame:

A truly outstanding post. Thanks!!
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:44 pm | #

Voice, that was a great summary. I'm not going to change anyone's mind about the matter, I know. Part of this is probably the constant feeling I have had this millennium that I have to explain the behavior of the adults associated with the University. Everyone here knows that litany, and I expected "ND safety plays QB" to be another negative headline I'd have to defend against my ND-disliking friends. In point of fact, I haven't seen or heard much about it outside of this thread. So good for Charlie -- he doesn't care much what others think, and that has to be a good thing for him and the team right now.

Brian, OC mj, and Joe Subway, thanks for the inspiring posts. For what it's worth Joe, my son and I had a great time watching ND win its hockey game this evening. They're looking all right this season, and the pep band and students really rock the house!
Lou ntL | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:59 pm | #

Yes, great post LTND -- wish I'd refreshed the thread before posting my comment. BGS is indeed something to be thankful for.
Lou ntL | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:06 pm | #

Wow. This is really an exercise in generational dynamics. I can't for the life of me see how this is "whining." It's actually anger and indignation. I'm sustaining it because the university and how it's perceived, particularly by those who are openly critical of it, are more important to me than the outcome of any game.

Let me approach this two ways. First, from the perspective of the team. With the game put away on Senior Day, convention, tradition, and the spirit of comradeship that prevail in football perhaps more than in any other team game all suggest emptying the bench to give those guys who've worked hard for little recognition just a brief moment in the spotlight. We're talking a series, maybe two. How does putting Zbikowski in the game serve that custom? So what if he was recruited as a QB? So was Bragg. So were plenty of other guys--scholarship guys who never got a chance to shine--who were recruited to play their positions and never did, whose warrant Bragg carried. Zibby has had plenty of limelight (well earned, obviously). How does the TEAM benefit when he's so purposefully and conspicuously made the object of attention like this, in a situation where what he's being asked to do is so pointless?

With respect to sportsmanship, I'll be more direct: Putting Zibby in the game was bush. It was like having your clean-up hitter bat off-handed in a game when you're up by 10 runs. Fun for teh batter? Sure. Fun for your team? A barrel of laughs. Fun for the team that's overmatched? Hardly. To them, it's graceless--a sad, pathetic way for the winners to feel better about themselves by reminding everybody that at least THEY'RE not 1-10. It's doubly graceless when it appears so plainly to be done as a lark; Zibby wasn't even checked in properly, for Pete's sake. (One would think that the coaches would have been mortified enough be that alone to pull the plug on the gag--but no, they plunged on.) And its triply graceless when the team that's having this jolly is as bad as the Irish have been this year. If you're a truly bad team and your only solace is to beat an even worse team, at least have the decency to do it without drawing undue attention to either fact.
1842 | Email | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:41 pm | #

Wow this has morphed into something crazy. I want to reiterate that I have the greatest respect for Tommy Z. as a person. He has always conducted himself in a manner that makes a ND fan proud. My criticism remains that he was (like all of Ty's guys) half a football player. He was tough against the run but a liability as a deep half safety.

In response to those who fail to see that this was disrespectful to Duke:
1. Recall his first or second snap when Tommy Z. waved his arms as if to quiet the crowd. Pat Haden and the other guy knew that he was planning on doing that. They commented so it was obviously in their game notes. Has this team earned the right to assume a victory while preparing for an opponent?

2. I am a subway alum. I thought growing up that we went to church on Sunday because ND played on Saturday. People on this site talk all the time about how ND is different and ND is special. That's why it makes me sick that Charlie Weis would disrespect another fine institution who seemingly does it right with great success in college b-ball without the slightest hint of impropriety as far as I can remember. It is wrong to play a player out of position in mop up time, especially when you insert that player into a conspicuous position as a ball carrier.

I respect that guy Jim's (the lawyer) right to have an opinion but if he were a real ND man he would air his dirty laundry in the right circles and not in the public eye. Maybe he thought no one would notice amongest all the other anti ND articles that pop up by the minute. In this terrible time this community of ND faithful needs to come together and understand that this id the darkness just before the dawn. It's too easy to be any other fan. Other teams live through 2-9 but no one takes as much crap as the Irish faithful. At the risk of walking the tight rope of sacrilige, we are carrying our cross right now, but salvation is around the corner. Why? Because I'm convinced that this university, this alumni, this group of fans refuses to accept mediocrity and it refuses to ever give up on our Irish. Whether it is Charlie Weis or someone else if he shits the bed next year, the Irish are going to be celebrating another magical era steeped in the magic and the mystique that is Our Lady's University.

ND forever, even if I am a Sub.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 1:01 am | #

Please don't reprint dougherty's crap here.

And let's draw this inane Zibby discussion to a close. Please.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 1:48 am | #

Geez...yeah, good call, Jay. As for besmirching the University's reputation...um, has anyone outside of ND message boards mentioned it at all? See, for a reputation to be "besmirched", someone has to do the besmirching. I doubt anyone else cares what a 2-9 team did beating a 1-10 team.
Nate (ltdomer98) | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 4:56 am | #

Does anyone know if this game will be on TV? I am specifically concerned about non cable TV since I do not have cable. If not, will it be shown on the internet?


Thanks
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 8:22 am | #

I tried to track down a Duke football blog…to no avail. Of course I am at work, so my search wasn’t exactly exhaustive.

I am glad the seniors got in and had fun doing so. Nothing more, nothing less.

We are having a party this weekend for the final home game, and I am hoping that ND will help keep the party festive. Stop on by if you are in the neighborhood. :-P

Dave
ditb | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 8:40 am | #

begin{off topic rant}

My apologies for going off topic, but is anyone else a bit troubled by the Weis quotes about visiting the Patriots to get feedback about "what went wrong" this year? Isn't his NFL mentality at the root of our most basic problems over the past 2 years? That, plus his quotes in recent pressers (which I'm too lazy to find and link to)that imply he thinks a lot of problems might be "schematic" and "X's and O's"? Has he learned nothing from this train wreck of a season?

The Dear Leader supporters at ndnation are spinning this as some great positive, but I have to say my heart sunk a little when I first heard it.

Perhaps those of us who are alarmed by this should start a mass mailing
of Tom Pagna's latest column at BlueandGold.com to CW's office.

end{rant}
scott | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:05 am | #

Lightening things up just a bit, I just want to say that I am absolutely amazed by the seemingly infinite number of the colon/semi-colon sideways little faces that people come up with. Dave just closed his post with a neat little stuck-out tongue version and I am truly impressed! Well done, Sir. And thanks for the invite. I will be cyber-partying with you before, during, after the game.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:31 am | #

Back to the original topic of this thread ... they're not gameday photos, but one of the posters at Irish Envy shared the story of taking his son, who has a serious form of childhood lung cancer, to ND for the Duke game. The whole community really reached out to him, and he got to go to practice and meet Coach Weis a bunch of players, got called on stage at the luncheon, visited the locker room, and so on. Anyway, the story, together with a bunch of photos from it (hence the return to the original topic), is at http://www.irishenvy.com/irishro...be-thankful- for.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:31 am | #

scott:

a) I would hope that Charlie Weis gets advice from everyone he has ever met that has been successful after this season.

b) I would really hope that Pagna's column would be at the top of that list.
banjomatt | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:37 am | #

Whatever Scott. Yawn. It's patently clear that to some around here Charlie is damned-if-he-do damned-if-he-don't. And I have a sneaking suspiscion that a many of thse same "critics" haven't gotten laid in a very loooong time.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Jester | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:38 am | #

Scott,

Take the time to find the transcripts of Charlie's pressers from Sunday and Tuesday on http://www.und.com, and I think you'll feel a little better about his visit to New England. Charlie knows it's not just X's and O's this year, don't worry.

Dana Payne: the "victory lap" after the game was not bush league, because it wasn't a victory lap. They would have done the exact same thing if they had lost. It was their LAST time ever being in that stadium for a game, and the seniors were thus taking a "final lap" around the field. There just would have been fewer smiles and high fives with fans had they lost the game first.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:42 am | #

John, thanks for posting that! Charlie alluded to spending time this week with some "people" who really put life into perspective and make him truly thankful for the opportunity to be with his family every day. Now I know what he was referring to.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:46 am | #

Sure thing, Erik. It really is an awesome story. Definitely puts stupid stuff like the whole "Zibby at QB" brouhaha in perspective, huh?
John | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:53 am | #

That's me Jester.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 9:57 am | #

Game is 3:30 eastern on ESPN2.
Judge60 | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 10:17 am | #

"My apologies for going off topic, but is anyone else a bit troubled by the Weis quotes about visiting the Patriots to get feedback about "what went wrong" this year? Isn't his NFL mentality at the root of our most basic problems over the past 2 years? That, plus his quotes in recent pressers (which I'm too lazy to find and link to)that imply he thinks a lot of problems might be "schematic" and "X's and O's"? Has he learned nothing from this train wreck of a season?"

I definetely have no problem with Charlie wanting to talk with the pats about his crapy season and how he should fix it. For once I applaude him for doing that. The 2 previous years he got so much credit too early. This year he surprised us with 2-9 team. I still have that little towel that says "9-3 isn't good enough" that was after his first season, and third season we are looking at 3-9 if we are lucky.
As the season progressed,I could see the better change of charlie, especially the last game, I had a glimse of what I wanted, ground game with Robert hughes, Armando, aldridge and jabbie.
In addition, I heard him recognizing his mistake of putting a kid at QB who wasn't ready for college football too early. I have always felt people should be given a second chance to redeem themselves. People always learn from their mistake. In that regard I was mad at Cw and everybody who never recognized that Demetrious Jones needed a second chance.

As for next year,I hope we start seeing more of the ground attack and less of the air attack. The defense is looking ok but promising.
Most people have said that we have no talents, I believe we do but not being used properly which hurt our season. We definetely need a speed and a strength coach. Last but not least Dan wenger is good at center. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 10:20 am | #

Two questions:
What is a "Subway Alum?" Having grown up in the midwest a ND fan, I hate to admit that I need clarification on what it is and what is so "negative" about it.

Jim Masterson (or someone else who read it): could you post a link to JD's letter? I tried to find it at mercurynews.com but was unsuccessful. Not to extend the apparent "crappiness" of it but more because I am interested in what was said.
Bushell | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 11:05 am | #

Bushell - Generally, a "subway alum" is a term used to describe Notre Dame fans who did not attend the University as students. The roots go back to the large collection of fans in the New York area who would come watch the team play in the 20's.

Some opposing fans or snobby ND alumni use it as an insult, as if to mean they are less of a fan because they didn't graduate from Notre Dame. The thing is, ND football wouldn't be what it is today without the national support of subway alumni. Furthermore, many alumni wouldn't be alumni if someone in their family hadn't been a "subway alumni" themselves. Plenty of kids worked hard to get into the school that their parents and/or relatives raised them to love. This sounds a bit cheesy, but it's true.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 11:16 am | #

Good comments Jean. I was at the game on Sat and it was nice to see the boys make a few plays. Pat/Jay, did I not see Tate on D a couple of series at the end? That would be troubling if Charlie is contemplating that change.
The bottom line is the O line, and I think Charlie realizes it. I agree that the absence of Sullivan seemed to be a positive. Clausen definitely improved again, and all of a sudden we may have a real QB for 3 years. Here's a random thought that shows the non luck of the Irish. Both Booty and Henne did not progress this year, and may have picked the game against us last year to have their career game.
Similarly, the Mich frosh who finished against OSU was 11-34. Hopefully Jimmy will continue to outplay him.
This week is the ultimate test- two teams who feel they are better than their records and are hoping for big things next year.Oh yeah, for those of you who weren't at the game it was fun to hear the crowd cheer Huuughes after all his nice runs. A new tradition!
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 11:26 am | #

canuck 75 - That wasn't Tate on defense. It was William David Williams, a senior walk-on. He just shares Tate's number.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 11:37 am | #

Canuck 75,
I like the way you made a great comparison about Jimmy and Mallet. This seaason I seen few competitions between our players and our opponents. The Michigan game was the beginning of rivarly between Ryan and Jimmy. USC game, was Armando vs Joe mcknight. I wasn't at the game this past week end but I love that Huuuughes thing that kept him going. That really show great support from the fans, if recruits were watching, they should pumped up to come to ND. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 2:34 pm | #

canuck75- I, too, was at the game and I thought the "Huuuuughes" was a lot of fun as well. It started slow and then really got going as he got more and more carries. I agree, it should be a new tradition!
Bushell | Email | Homepage | 11.21.07 - 5:03 pm | #