I would be shocked if CW has the ability to sit there and listen attentitively and quietly while Swarbrick said all that. Maybe because I've never seen him in a position of less authority (I only ever get to see interviews and press conferences where he's the big cheese in the room). He just doesn't seem humble enough to take that kind of constructive criticism. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope Swarbrick was able to give it to him in a way that CW responds positively.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 3:30 pm | #

P.S. "Pete for A.D.!"
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 3:31 pm | #

Erik,

While it's possible the few days between the auspicious end to the USC game and Swarbrick's conversation with Weis telling him he'd be back could have been consumed with travel plans, other functions, or backdoor interviews with other coaches, but there's also the fact that the entire time Weis & Co. were twisting in the wind, unsure of their ultimate fates. I don't know if it was deliberate on Swarbrick's part to keep Weis wondering, but it definitely helped to establish a pecking order here.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 3:39 pm | #

Very well said...You really covered every point I could think of!! Excellent Analysis!!
tc'69 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 3:43 pm | #

And hopefully this...in order to keep this job for another year, your buyout will be lowered to more reasonable terms
D | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:12 pm | #

I like the thinking, but I don't think Swarbrick was saying "I would like you to figure out how to return to BCS status, Charlie."

I think the conversation was as he said, a matching up of vision and view. I think Swarbrick quite directly told him what he thought was wrong IN DETAIL and looked for responses. I am sure he went a level below fundamentals into items such as discipline, specific staff etc. And further, I think Swarbrick called the question! "Are you on board with this direction Charlie?"
I do not think it was as vague as the posing. It is a good framework, but I get the feeling old Jack is not shy with opinions.
I wonder who he tapped into for advice? Lou? Reggie Brooks?
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:15 pm | #

I'd love to know if there have been any prior conversations between the two in relation to expectations. I also wonder what the year 5 performance criterion are in the contract that would give ND an out on the contract/buyout.

The thing that I find galling about this whole scenario is CW needs a nanny to help him figure out what he is handsomely paid to do. Add to that his lack of humility since Day 1 when it comes to him publicly telling everyone about his coaching acumen and it is nearly impossible to have any empathy or patience with him.
PZ | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:24 pm | #

Jack Swarbrick on Weis's ability to take constructive criticism as reported by Tom Coyne on November 12:

"We have a set meeting once a week," [Swarbrick] said. "He couldn't be more engaged and open to soliciting my perspective and my views. It's been a great working relationship."

One of the problems with major media outlets is that they establish a narrative (e.g., Obama is in control, McCain is a hothead, et cetera) and reporters and readers alike then tune out or ignore information or evidence that would contradict the narrative.

The narrative here is that Weis is a brash, overbearing prick who lacks social skills and can't relate to college kids. It probably has some basis in reality. But it's probably not the whole story. Yet people who have never met Weis or the players are willing to assume that the narrative is true on the basis of short quotes or glimpses on TV (e.g., Charlie looks like shit, the players look lost, etc.).

I have no idea whether or to what extent Weis - the whole man - resembles the image the public has of him. But Swarbrick probably does, and he suggests that there is more to him than we know.
Joe Magarac | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:30 pm | #

I am certain you are 200% correct Joe Mag.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:42 pm | #

Joe - Amen to that.

I'm talking right now about Charlie's character, not his coaching performance here, but we continue to hear from national outlets what an arrogant prick Charlie is, but with nothing to back it up. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the same guy who instituted the honoring of the Service Academies' alma maters, Pass Right, the trip with his son to the USC locker room in '05 to congratulate them on a great game, and especially Hannah & Friends also happens to treat every one else with such disrespect and disregard. Furthermore, anyone who has watched the local media press conferences Charlie can see that he has a cordial relationship with them.

Charlie is not a bad guy, he is a Domer, and I want him to succeed. I have been extremely disappointed the last 2.5 years, but he's our coach for now so I'm getting behind him 100%.
OderName | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 4:48 pm | #

nice summary, but if that actual conversation took place, and I was CW, i would stay, work hard for MYSELF to have a great year, recruit a great class, and IF I did, then sit down and tell the AD where to stick it. he isnt going to blow me out after going 10-2 and lined up another great class. leverage back to me. the kids would then have been firmly in my corner and nobody would want to risk losing large parts of two classes.

the 2nd half of your pitch was no way to engage anyone. CW deserves to be where he is at, and he knows the stakes, but you cant lay it out for him like that.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 5:04 pm | #

Joe, I guess you are right. It's easier for the media to portray (and the masses to buy into) one particular image of a person like CW, and the image that sells the most newspapers is the one with the most drama involved. Swarbrick seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't say that about Charlie if it weren't true, but I really have no basis for that impression either given the short time he's been on the job.

By all accounts, they had a good meeting on Tuesday. I really hope it translates to results on the field.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 5:06 pm | #

Joe M. hit the nail on the head. I'm so sick of clowns like Gene Wojo. and Stewart Mandel who write these ridiculously unfair, unsourced, and mean spirited articles about someone they probably have never even spoken to. Guess what jerk offs, your "My Advice for Charlie Weis" articles are garbage--no one wants your advice because you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You read a couple of posts from message boards and watch a few highlights on Sportscenter and call yourself an expert. You aren't. You're a third rate "journalist" who's too lazy to actually come up with an original, interesting thought of your own. Lord knows Weis deserves some criticism, but reading that type of garbage makes him seem far less arrogant than the dickheads writing those articles.
San Diego Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 5:15 pm | #

Who will come to work for Charlie as an assistant now under an implicit one year contract? Who would want to work under that pressure?
Mike from Torrance | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 5:21 pm | #

I'm with you Oder. We knew Charlie long ago during school, and met since then. Mr. Swarbirck's management skills are impeccable.

Long term, we're going to be fine.
Tennessee Domer 78 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 5:42 pm | #

Well written, I enjoyed it. Regarding ESPN, I don't think it's a coincidence that virtally all of their talking heads and "columnists" were promoting the firing of Weis and the program's downfall.

It has everything to do with NBC v. ESPN, and until the Irish start pummeling their opponents on a weekly basis, we have to put up with it.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 6:20 pm | #

Irish win! 1-0 vs Stanford to go to the National Championship game Sunday afternoon. You da Girlz! GO IRISH!
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 6:43 pm | #

CW is a good guy and he does seem to know what the problem are, just doesn't know how to fix them. And when he finally fixes one, another one falls apart. The defense starts playing well and the offense implodes. The kicker starts hitting field goals and the onside kicks fall apart. The o-line lowers the sack total and now they can't run the ball. One should always delgate what they know best, so he should stay away from offense, and only check in every once in a while. The inability to fix problems is very perplexing.
irish09 | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 7:18 pm | #

ESPN has had a hard on for ND since the NBC contract. They took delight in Doug "Lunatic" Looney's 1993 book, a real piece of crap. They reveled in calling ND racist when Ty was bought out. And the list goes on. The idiots on ESPN would not know facts if hit right in the mouth with them.
lush | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 8:06 pm | #

Charlie I'm sure had his say. He must be persuasive guy given the recruiting. Keep in mind he has to convince the HS coaches before the students. I'm sure the "kiss the ring" line doesn't work well on a seasoned HS coach. That being said all the discussions/advice and commentary begin to create a box that Charlie has to live in. The tighter the box the more likely he fails.
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 8:21 pm | #

ESPN has had a hard on for ND since the NBC contract

ND football, that is. Note their coverage of basketball, which is as fair and balanced for us as it is for most other teams (we don't get the love Duke does, of course). You can listen to Sean McDonough, Bill Raftery, Jay Bilas, Dan Shulman, Len Elmore, etc. do our games, and enjoy the experience.

As for the Swarbrick-Weis conversation, I am sure that Weis's image among the Notre Dame on-campus community was touched on. Weis has pissed off a lot of people on campus with his personality, and has been working on rebuilding some bridges. But, as he is discovering, on the generally warm, friendly, and supportive campus that ND is, no one is a worse pariah than a football coach with a mediocre record.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 8:40 pm | #

Very good read. I hope the conversation touched on CW's attitude. He has a widely reported history of arrogance with a huge helping of ego. If we are going to put up with a coach coming off two terrible (and I mean TERRIBLE) years can't he even pretend to be a nice guy.
You can put up with a poor, self centered, "me first" attitude when a coach is WINNING but it's death given the recent results.
Nothing turns Alums (myself included) off more than spreading around the blame when things go wrong as CW has been known to do.
Attitude | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 10:01 pm | #

ESPN likes ND basketball simply because they are Big East and Big East basketball pulls in the ratings.
Jacques du Lac | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 10:41 pm | #

Charlie's media narrative...hah! His own fat mouth has more to do with his media image than a vindictive ESPN does. "Schematic advantage", "nasty", Michigan this, Michigan St. that, Pete Caroll, etc, etc... ESPN didn't have any problem running that Pass Right story about 4,392 times, but now all of a sudden they are out to get Charlie. Parcells is a smart ass--who wins. Belicheat is a dull, mono toned drone--who wins. Bob Knight is an @$$hole--who wins. CW is all of those things, except he doesn't win. He can blame himself for his poor image.
Steve | Email | Homepage | 12.05.08 - 10:56 pm | #

How gone is Latina? The first one?

Has to be, just has to be....
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 12:00 am | #

San Diego Irish,
Your post was excellent. Now apply it to some of the posts that you read here.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 6:46 am | #

Maybe someone can help me out with all this so called recruiting success. I just havn't seen it on the field. Havn't seen a run longer than 6 yards that i can remember.
Everyone seems to hang their hats on the Rival rankings. They're less accurate than the South Bend weather. How do you rank HS kids??? To constantly refer to these rankings as some sort of objective source is madness. Also,quit blaming the assistants, it's Charley's team. CW just doesn't understand the college game, never has, never will. What you see is what we''ll always have with Charley. We're kidding ourselves.

Past success in 05 & o6?? look closely at 06, we digressed from 05.
Who made BQ a great college QB? Try the guy with all the name you can't spell.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 7:27 am | #

While I don't agree with a lot of stuff I read on this blog, this bolog and seeing the press conference live gets me all the info I need to talk intelligently, I think, about the team.....It is infuriating that those national guys know less than I do about the situation yet they go out and spout on the subject and the world says, "Well, I just heard it on National TV, it must be right>"
I think the local guys do get it right. But when you consider that you read SI and look at ESPN eager to find out something about ND and you find out stuff that is mostly misleading and is clearly misinformed.
I'm an old Brooklyn Dodger fan.....wait 'til next year.....then maybe I'll join in the complaints.
captain jack | Email | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 7:38 am | #

We have fixated on the big picture the last two weeks and I think this is one time that we should be looking at the small picture again. For example , with respect to play calling, is there anyone in our nation who has access to someone inside (if not Charlie himself) who could quietly ask, "What is it that you see in that 3rd and 2-4th and 2 that makes you think that basic hand off will work?"
Why did we abandon the only offense that really worked this year- the one that saw Rudolf, Allan, Tate and Floyd all catch 4-5 balls against Purdue, second half against MSU etc.
I don't need any more high minded speeches. I want and expect practical adjustments. Did we not all assume that Charlie would be great at half time adjustments?
One comment about the recruiting- the system is out of control now that guys are unofficially committing before they have even played their junior season. Both Powlus and Clausen were 4 yr stars, with their reps in place by soph year. Maybe if they hadn't been annointed as best in class a more objective eye might have downgraded them. Why did everyone miss Chase Daniel? Was it because he only performed well as a senior, after all major teams had picked their guys?
Anyway, frustrating here in the cold north on a Sat where I have to make do with Fla-Ala and USC UCLA and we won't even be in any conversations.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 12.06.08 - 11:42 am | #

Strongly suggest that Charlie Jr be "retired" from the sideline and at practices. He is a distraction that undermines Charlie and the team. Just my opinion.
Knucklehead5 | Email | Homepage | 12.07.08 - 10:29 am | #

Yes, Charlie Jr. needs to go from sidelines. Didn't one of the Alabama head coaches have his son on the sidelines during the late '80's? It looked silly then and it's silly now.

Was it true that Faust had a bodyguard (ie., the big guy with the stocking hat we saw in the 83 Liberty Bowl)? Or is a bodyguard standard issue in college football besides the state troopers with park ranger hats?
Jacques du Lac | Email | Homepage | 12.07.08 - 11:45 am | #

Yes, Gene Stallings had his son on the sidelines with him. IIRC, his son suffers from Down's syndrome.

If our record was 9-3 no one would give a flying fig if young Charlie was on the sideline. I don't, even when we were 3-9. He is not the problem.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 12.07.08 - 7:27 pm | #

Thank you DJ for the clarification about Stallings' son. I was being a lazy poster and should have did my fact checking before spouting off on the keyboard based on very hazy memories of the 1987 Alabama game.
Jacques du Lac | Email | Homepage | 12.07.08 - 11:31 pm | #

The one area you forgot to mention that Charlie has exceeded expectations is the very reason ND exists in the first place....to educate and earn college degrees. The graduation rate and the GPA's of the football team have been outstanding.
go1r1sh | Email | Homepage | 12.08.08 - 10:15 am | #

Belocki,

If ND goes 10-2 next year, and Weis brings in another good recuriting class, he isn't going anywhere. Nor should he. That is the performance we want. Who cares where the leverage is in a successful relationship?

As for the exact lay out of the discussion, I tend to doubt it went that way, but I imagine points were made. They have probably already been made. My guess is that this may have been the first time that Swarbrick got into staff details and such. Clear though that they agreed to some changes.

I feel bad for Latina who by all acouunts is an excellent line coach. However, his lines here are not getting the job done.
Andy T | Email | Homepage | 12.08.08 - 12:53 pm | #

Wow. What a great guestimate of how we hope the conversation went down and the reasoning behind the decision. Nicely done.
Jeff Newby | Email | Homepage | 12.10.08 - 10:44 am | #