Agree with you, Pat, that the seeds are being sown for the demise of this series.

Once it goes away, I'd personally love to see us play Nebraska every year in that slot.
tjnd88 | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:12 am | #

It's a shame that it's probably going to end. To me, that game is the true start of the CFB season. Maybe there's a little fear that with the resurgence in recruiting in South Bend, that their season will be bookended(?) by losses.....
GRNDFan | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:26 am | #

I've always wanted to start a middle of the country rotation consisting of Michigan, Ohio St., Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Penn St. (I realize that is a pretty big middle of the country) with games against Michigan in 6 out of 10 years.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:27 am | #

If Monk Davieham was still in charge, Michigan would be pushing like hell for a long term extension. The skunks know that once we truly turn the corner on this rebuild, their ass is grass and Charlie's a big 'ol lawn mower.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:30 am | #

Biggest preseason game of the year? Funny, I'm pretty sure losing this game still counts. Was this an intentional insult or are they just that clueless that a Big(Something) Title is their only goal for the year?
Dan | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:31 am | #

I don't think that Weis is the reason for this, although it makes sense that Michigan probably wouldn't be too worried about a switch if ND was still playing like it did under Davie and Ty. (although the ND-Michigan game has usually been a "throw out the record books" type of game)

If Michigan gets a great new coach to follow up Carr in a year or so, they might decide it really doesn't matter if they play ND and OSU in the same season at home (or on the road). If the replacement coach struggles a bit out of the gate, I wouldn't be surprised to see a renewed push on Michigan's behalf to balance out their schedule.

Like I said, this will be interesting to watch unfold.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:33 am | #

Going along the rotation theme I'd like to see us play an SEC team maybe 2 year series such as the Gators,FSU, LSU, Tenn or Alabama .

Playing a Florida school might enhance recruiting there as well.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:45 am | #

PS yeah I know FSU is ACC. Miami perhaps as well.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:46 am | #

"It's the highest-rated television preseason game in college football”.
What the..? Preseason? Let me guess, the season starts when the Skunks start beating up on Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, et al. I’m sure Appalachian State and Oregon are thrilled to be considered preseason too. Sounds like locker room bulletin board material to me.
The real reason the Skunks are maneuvering and trying to justify dropping the IRISH is because next year they have already scheduled Toledo, as in Holy Toledo!! Gee the Winningest football program can surely keep on winning when it reaches across the state line to start playing Holy Toledo. The Holy part is to justify dropping the IRISH, if that ever happens.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:49 am | #

Dana, I agree. If I were creating ND's schedule, I would always have three "big" games. USC, a middle of the country team, and another great team from the SEC, Texas, Miami, FSU contingent.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:52 am | #

To UM it's a preseason game in one respect. They don't have to beat us to get in a BCS bowl, just win the Big Ten. On the other hand, if they have Championship Bowl hopes, they probably do need to beat us.
ND67Aquajock | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:11 am | #

Fine tuning means more than getting ND at home when they don't have the Ohio State University. Michigan has proposed a new scheduling paradigm to ND where we would play them three out of every five years.

That's a change I could really live with assuming we schedule another quality opponent in seasons when we don't play Michigan.
Font o Know | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:15 am | #

How do I know you're Michigan?

You're scheduling Toledo instead of Notre Dame!
Sean Fitzgerald | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:26 am | #

Ah, yes... the "pre-season" game against The Lads. It isn't nearly as important as those tilts during the "real" season with mighty Indiana and the juggernaut that is Illinois.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:29 am | #

PJC - Hear, hear!

I like that strategy. It mixes up USC (who will be good for the foreseeable future due to Pete "the Humanitarian" Carroll), a Midwestern rival and a southeastern opponent of note to show we can play with the "big boys".

Personally, I liked the Tennessee and LSU battles of the nineties a lot, but would also like to play Miami and FSU to keep those rivalries going.

What is our own Big East schedule shaping up to? Will we be playing WVU, Rutgers and Louisville, or just more Rutgers, Syracuse and Pittsburgh?
Sean Fitzgerald | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:31 am | #

I like playing Michigan. But if they want to "go in another direction" for a while, that's fine by me.

I second (or third) the notion of playing a Big Three rotation of SC (west), Penn State or equiv (midwest), and a southern team. Miami anyone? They'll be awesome again within three years...
Hal | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:39 am | #

"I scorn you, scurvy companion. What, you poor, base, rascally, cheating, lack-linen mate! Away, you moldy rogue, away!" (Henry IV, Part II)

Inotherwords: Fuck a buncha Michigan.
PaddyTheGreek | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:48 am | #

I'd hate to see the UM game go away. I have family in Michigan and nothing gives me more pleasure than bragging rights for a year. Beating Michigan has always been a bigger deal than USC for me.

I'll also stand in the SEC rotation line for all the same reasons mentioned above.
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:53 am | #

I don't want a big three at all. I want 12 games against real teams. I don't have a problem with scheduling Navy or a team like Syracuse who can be good one year and bad the next, but I can't stand watching us play Duke, UNC, Army, etc. I know all teams do it, but it doesn't change the fact that as a fan I want a real game each week.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:54 am | #

Early season games are easier to schedule than later in the season when most teams are into their conference schedule. So finding a similar replacement won't be hard, but I doubt whomever ND gets will be as big as Michigan. Personally, I like the Michigan game, but it should be sandwiched between two winnable early season games. Basically, the opposite of what ND has done for the last decade.
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:54 am | #

I'd like to drop Purdue and/or Michigan State from future schedules. Neither one appreciates or acknowledges that having ND on their sked is good for their program, and they pretty much behave like assholes before, during, and after the games. Freeing up those two dates would make future Pitt/ Syracuse/ Rutgers contests slightly less detestable since neither Purdue nor Mich. State is ever going to be worth a crap. Playing them is risky and creates a no-win scenario for Notre Dame. At least the service academies appreciate the history of their rivalries with the Irish. Also, having ND on the academy's schedules might assist with their recruitment of our nation's future military officers, and that's a good thing.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 11:54 am | #

I love the guy who doesn't want to see ND play Duke, UNC, Army, etc because as a fan he wants a "real" game every week. First, tell that to the players on Duke, UNC, Army that when they play ND it's not a "real" game. If ND wants to win a national championship they need a balanced schedule. That means 6 winnable games, 2 to 3 kinda tough games and 2 to 3 real tough games. That's the formula Rockne came up with in his own book.
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:02 pm | #

I would do the same with Purdue/MSU as with Michigan - create a rotation of midwest teams. Play Purdue/MSU 6 out of 10 years and rotate other middle of the road midwest teams in their place (e.g., Iowa, Minnesota, Pitt, Kansas St., Missouri, etc.)

There is a strong Irish presence in the Northeast so two games against certain Big East teams is appropriate. Two is plenty, however.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:06 pm | #

MSU should not come off the schedule. Back when the Big Ten (Michigan) tried to boycott ND, MSU pulled through. That was not insignificant. Over the years they have been a good rival (if not a big rival). Also, they fit in the decent -- could be good, could be bad -- space that ND needs 3-4 of every year. Frankly, lately they have given ND as much trouble as anyone but SC. For the sake of tradition and because of what they bring to the field, they deserve to be on the schedule.
David | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:11 pm | #

You know how I know you're Michigan? Because you were holding Lloyd Carr ever so gently.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:11 pm | #

By the way, who was in charge when ND made the 2005 schedule - Wadsworth or White? That was a perfectly reasonable schedule. Three traditional powers (USC, Michigan, Tennessee); interesting game against a traditionally good/very good team (Washington); two other games against the Big 10; two games against the Big East (Pitt, Syracuse); etc.

I understand that you can't sign a contract by yourself but this scheduling business just doesn't seem that hard.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:19 pm | #

Its a lot harder than it looks. We are 'committed' to 3 Big East games.

I have no problem with Michigan being a 3/5 type of thing (wonder who gets the extra home game). THe push on the schedule could be at USC or OSU. No reason we couldn't switch and play USC on the road for two years to make it work for Michigan.
Andy T | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 12:57 pm | #

Voice has it right. Screw them if they think getting off our schedule will make them better - perhaps it will, until the SOS rankings and opinion of B10 football goes in the tank. For my part, I'd rather be sitting next to Miami fans who make no claim to know any history, or someone polite from Nebraska or Oklahoma. UM and tOSU fans deserve each other.
indy | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 1:23 pm | #

Pat, hilarious reference by the way.
indy | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 1:32 pm | #

I have always hated the MSU Michigan back-to-back crap.

A little concerned this may have a little more to do with CW and us turning them into punching bags. Tressel is doing that now at OSU. Why risk another L on top of the one they have gotten for the last 3+ years? Tressel and Weis (sans Minter) adds up to a lot of losses (aka Lloyds)!

What is the heck are we still doing with Navy, UNC, Army's of the world, anyway? UNC will be off by the time Butch brings them around.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 1:58 pm | #

I may be wrong, but the problem with scheduling teams from the South is we don't want to play in sweaty Alabama in September and they don't want to play in snowy South Bend in November.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 2:32 pm | #

I think Erik is right and if he is that is pretty p*ssy. Yes its hot there but what better way to establish yourself than going down to the south and winning a game in a hostile, blisterring hot and humid environment. Didn't scare USC of playing Arkansas this year in early September. Or us going to Atlanta
PM | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 2:42 pm | #

i actually like the 3/5 proposition for michigan. hopefully that will be three consecutive years, with a home and home with a traditional power in the intervening two years.

teams i'd love to play in those slots:
nebraska
oklahoma
texas
georgia
alabama
miami

the goal for those home and homes should be a game that would never happen otherwise- a game that is THE early season matchup (like osu-texas the past few years).

i think that ends up being a win-win: keep michigan on the schedule, and expand the range of elite programs we play.
tjf | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 3:23 pm | #

I wasn't saying it would be in ND's best interest from both physical as well as emotional wear and tear, to play 12 "real" games. However, as a fan I don't really care whether ND wins an NC because they play a "winnable" schedule. Part of what made 88 such a great season is that we beat everybody there was to beat that year. There was not a person in the country arguing we were not NC winners. Besides in every other sport teams get good by playing top competition week-in, week-out. Why should we not expect the same from our football team. I am not saying we don't need a patsy or two to rest up against, but I think the teams like Purdue, Navy, etc. that we already schedule every year provide adequate chances for the 3rd string to see the field.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 3:46 pm | #

soneone asked earlier why we bother with the academies?? i can't vouche for army, but someone told me that the navy bailed ND out of a tough financial situation in the 40's or the 50's?? in return they asked that the always be on the football schedule, and for a navy ROTC program on ND's campus. bear in mind this is only hearsay, can someone out there shed some light on this???
bigappledomer | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 3:52 pm | #

Fuck Michigan.

Aren't they pulling a tOSU and trying to limit their away games to 3 or 4 away games per season?

It was no different when Fielding Yost was there. Michigan has always been afraid of a schedule that might challenge them.

What a bunch of sissy boys.

Waa, don't want 2 challenging games in one season Waa.

Fuck Michigan.

Lets add Nebraska, Texas and OU into a rotation.

Michigan and their conference suck.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 3:55 pm | #

bigapple, that the navy saved nd's financial ass during wwII is well documented, and mentioned on every telecast of said game.
yz | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 3:55 pm | #

atepesm,

Unfortunately, so is ND. Font o know can correct me if I'm wrong, but White's scheduling model going forward is 7 home, 4 away, 1 neutral; if the neutral is of the Baylor/South Florida variety, then ND's schedule could possibly be every bit as wimpy as the Big 10 teams. It doesn't change your last sentence, however.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 4:03 pm | #

A few years ago, I went to the game at Michigan. It was a miserable experience, not only because we got thumped, but also because I just don't enjoy having beer thrown on me, people in my face constantly, the unremitting sneering obnoxiousness of the whole thing.
Later, that same year, while at the Stanford game, I ran into "someone" from the AD department and expressed my feelings about the whole experience. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who had contacted the AD department because the response surprised me. "Yes, we had a lot of complaints about that game, in fact, we are thinking about dropping Michigan".
Kevin O'Mara '76 | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 4:15 pm | #

USC isn't likely to switch years with ND even if ND gave SC 2 in a row at home.. why.. SC likes to give the season tix holders one marquee game at a minimum each year.. ND in even years, UCLA in odd years.. I think Michigan is trying to do the same thing.. season tix holders for UM get a great deal the year they have OSU and ND at home.. and lousy games (in theory) the years that they play ND and OSU on the road.. I could sympathize with UM fans on this.. I hate SC's schedule this year at home.. other than UCLA there is absoulutely nothing worth crowing about.. if ND and UCLA were in the same season.. I could only imagine the possibilities on how bad a home schedule would be without one of those two teams.. Ditto for UM fans..
TrojanHorse | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 4:46 pm | #

Hey just an open question to everyone here. I was wondering what happened to the extra revenue assuming that there were no at large teams in the past? For instance last year ND and Boise State received at large bids and would have earned $14.5 million in the past. With ND only earning $4.5 last year i was just wondering where that extra $10 million was allotted to. Any ideas?
John | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 6:04 pm | #

On a simpler note,

The title and reference of this post seems to open the door to a completely separate post or contest along the lines of "You know how I know you're (insert team here)?" as in:

You know how I know you're Purdue? You're proud of something that has no purpose other than to get beat.

You know how I know you're MSU?
You hate yourselves more than any rival hates you.
Alces | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 6:16 pm | #

I can see UM point of view, the biggest non-con on the first or second game of the season. This has always been the big "B" of mich as far back as BO. This game can make or brake both teams season. I can remember losing to Mich and then going thru the season hoping this team and that team would lose or win to help us out. If Mich does not want to play during the regular season then lets beat at the bowl game. The last blow is always remembered as the one that hurt the most.
irishmike | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 6:39 pm | #

Big Apple--

This link is to an Observer article from a couple years back that provides some insight into the ND/Navy rivalry.

http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.c...p- 1054754.shtml
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 6:41 pm | #

1. Don't ever drop Navy. Part of what we pride ourselves on as Domers is our faithfulness and our sense of something bigger than just a football game; we owe a debt to the US Navy that can't ever be fully repaid. On that note, as a service member (US Army) myself, I love seeing us play the other Academies as well. I wish we wouldn't play all three in the same year (play Navy every year, then USAFA and West Point in some sort of rotation, say a home and home with each every 5 years--2yrs AF, 2 yrs Army, 1 year off). However, working in the military, I'll say that seeing that game on AFN--whichever Academy ND is playing--means a lot to the service members overseas, and means a lot to the future officers at each of the Academies. I still get West Point grads coming up to me and talking about Ivory Covington's tackle at the goal line in '95. It's a moment we share as opposing fans who share a profession--please don't take that completely away from our men in uniform. Sure, we might have to endure "play someone other than an Academy" jokes when we play multiple academies, like this past year, but we're Notre Dame. I think we're big enough to handle that criticism with class.

2. I agree, F Michigan. However, let's not go too overboard in the "they want to end the series because they're afraid Charlie's going to stomp them" stuff. Charlie's 1-1 against them, and the only stomping was by them this past year. ND's looking to lighten the schedule load a bit too--let's not cast stones and all that.

But I reiterate, F Michigan. If they want to break up our love to hate relationship and go date some teams they can push around, then fine--we've got suitors lined up at the door waiting. Every year this discussion comes up, which shows they simply aren't as committed to the relationship as we are. Dr. Phil says to let them go their own way.
Anonymouse | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 7:03 pm | #

"Part of what made 88 such a great season is that we beat everybody there was to beat that year."

During the 1988 season, "everybody" included Air Force, Navy and Rice and a Purdue team that wasn't very good. As a fan, I kind of enjoyed the above "breathers" on the schedule. I'm not sure how my nerves would have handled the tension that went with the Michigan and Miami games on a weekly basis.
farmboy | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 7:03 pm | #

As Lou Holtz pointed out immediately after defeating West Virginia in the Fiesta Bowl, all Notre Dame did(in '88) was beat the best team In the North (Michigan), South (Miami), East (WVU) and West (USC). Thank God for a "breather" game every now and then. Just don't ever lose one! Until now Notre Dame hasn't played gratuitous breather games very often. Our breather games are generally against the academies or former powerhouses just down on their luck for the past thirty or forty years. As for playing the "directionals" or a [Holy!] Toledo...those are gratuitous breathers and should be avoided at all costs by schedule makers.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 8:34 pm | #

Ooooh.. Charlie the Wise is recruiting left, right and center... We are really scared..

What did he do with an all-world QB, WRs and TB - he lost to Michigan 47 - 21. Now everyone should be scared of his class.. Ooh we are so scared..

See you in Ann Arbor sisters.

Scoreboard.
Field.
JohnnyDrama | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 8:37 pm | #

John

I always thought the bowl committees just kept the $12.5million but maybe I am wrong.
GB | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 8:52 pm | #

I think ND should play Michigan 6 more times and then tell them to fuckoff.

Fielding Yost was the biggest pansy to walk the gridiron. I've never heard of an individual running away from the competition more often.

About the only good thing I can think of to say about Michigan is "Thanks, you made us the most nationally respected college football program by forcing us to play the powerhouses from all over the US, instead of just the Midwest." Can't wait to part ways with those redneck whiners.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 9:32 pm | #

Weis/Holtz/Devine/Leahy are a combined 6-1 in Ann Arbor but only 3-5-1 at home against Michigan. Maybe ND should play all of their games there.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.23.07 - 10:23 pm | #

I don't want to see the ND vs Michigan series end, simply because it would end yet another game in which ND has a true rival, one that we can actual care about, be mad at and just all-out hate. We get rid of the Wolverines, and then whose left? USC? Not really a HATE there, because the series was actually begun under pretty amicably and the scheduling change was even done without being a protractive mess like the MICH game is beginning to become, apparently.

Besides, this has nothing to do with CW. We have not done anything of note in his two years, other than start stomping on the teams we should be beating, and starting to recruit like we did back when Cerrato was in charge of things.

Another thing, if anyone ever read Lou's autobiography, I think it is pretty telling that he was a good friend of Bo's and worked for Woody, and even had Steve Superior's family help him out when Beth had cancer. So it is not anything to do with the coaching changes people. It is about money, and that is just sad.

Get this resolved, because the MICH game is a big game, and I agree that back when Lou was there, in the mid-eighties, nothing made me prouder than to know that when we beat MICH they had to play perfect for the rest of the season and yet were still likely to finish behind us because we got the jump on them (re: 1987-1990). Getting rid of the game is bad for both teams, and it should not happen, period. Let the animosity remain between the teams and fans, but let it be there every year. Losing games like this make the schedules seem even more mediocre than they already are shaping up to be in the future.

IF, MICH-ND is terminated after 2011, then the Irish BETTER schedule another big team like the Canes, Noles, Vols, Tide, or Sooners. We'll have enough cakewalks with the 12th game now. I believe that we still owe OU a home date anyway, but that should be returned sometime in the near future, yes?

I don't like MICH, but I do like beating them. Let's keep it going, since it is probably the best rivalry--I don't care what anyone else says--just based on the historical animosity that emanates from the two winningest and successful programs in CFB. Why should anyone want that kind of rivalry to end AGAIN??
Philip | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 8:13 am | #

I mean, look at some rivalries in the SEC. AU-GA has been going on for over 100 years, and I think someone pointed out that AU has outscored GA by three points in that time. MICH-ND has been interrupted once already for a long time, and the rivalry simply is just too important to the fabric of CFB history to let it die like this.
Philip | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 8:18 am | #

michael, I like your way of thinking. Really, the root of all this nonsense is money and the importance fans place on the 'national title.' This is just something a bunch of sportswriters came up with. Well guess what - those don't come around too often, easy schedule or not. Just ask the buckeyes. I understand why the casual fan who has no idea there is a difference between playing North Carolina and South Carolina cares about winning it all, and I appreciate water cooler bragging rights like the next guy, but for my money, great games against the best teams we can schedule for 11 or 12 games would be more fun to watch than blazing our way through cream puffs in hopes we get to play the Tostitos bowl. I actually like boasting about our strength of schedule more than our win loss record, and every now and again you are gonna run the table no matter what.
indy | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 10:11 am | #

If Michigan wants to avoid playing Ohio State and Notre Dame, both of them either home or away in the same year, perhaps Ohio State could host them two years in a row, and then go to alternating years. They never play anybody else of a high caliber anyhow, except Penn State who has now joined the Big Eleven. Also, shouldn't Michigan drop Ohio State every ten years?
Steve | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 10:56 am | #

I am not completely opposed to a 3/5ths Compromise, but...

Michigan should stop whining. I mean seriously, the only tough teams they play are ND and OSU. And no, MSU, PU, and Minnesota don't count. Iowa is a pretty good team as of late though, Penn St. (eehhhh, two good years in the past 8).

I think this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Playing us early is no big deal for them, cause they play us around the same time they play Toledo and Western Michigan. WE, meanwhile, have to play UM, PSU, MSU, PU (and while I've said some of those teams aren't that tough, they certainly aren't Toledo).

UM----- Grow a pair.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 10:59 am | #

SC is a forever game.
We play Purdue because it is instate and that's probably good.
MSU? well, we've been doing it every year, as long as I remember.
We just have to play Navey every year.And because we are in the Big East for everything else, we owe them the few games and usually 1 or 2 are good ones, so there is half your schedule. But I like the idea of new faces on the schedule every year and unless they are afraid to play ND, then we can get all the big names. When you schedule ten years ahead, it's tough to predict who's gonna be good at that time. But the big names seem to be competitive most of the time. In fact when ND rolls around I sometimes get the feeling that the opposing coaches use the ND game as a recruting tool. Make it a point to be in the four corners of the country each year and tell Michigan to get in line.
captain jack | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 11:07 am | #

Philip. You are the sane domer. Kudos.
JohnnyDrama | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 11:34 am | #

In all our talk of big rivalries its interesting how we always overlook Boston College.

Like it or not they have given us loads of trouble in recent years. We are 0-4 the last 4 times.

Admit it or not that makes it a big rivalry.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:01 pm | #

I believe we've lost 5 of the last 6 to BC.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:05 pm | #

I have a crazy idea. Why not turn the series into a 2-game every 3 years thing. That way each team gets one year where they play both big games on the road, one year where they get both at home, and two years where it's one of each. For example, if it were to start this year, the schedules would look like:

ND Mich
07 @Mich ND
USC OSU

08 Mich @ND
@USC @OSU

09 USC OSU

10 @Mich ND
@USC @OSU

11 Mich @ND
USC OSU

12 @USC @OSU
J-Rock | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:09 pm | #

Hey, when Michigan schedules Toledo

we can schedule Delaware.[who basically wear the same uniforms as the wolverines}

That is, of course, unless the 'hens already have a date at the "Big House"
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:23 pm | #

It is hard, when a once mighty giant is reduced to a laughing stock of a program... when the fans revel in the past, only to completely ignore the present and beg that the future provides some reprieve from this humiliation.

It is hard when the fans of said team base their loyalty on an image rather than a team.

It is hard when those that have been broken for so long lash out in hopes of striking something easier than the harsh reality that surrounds them otherwise.

It is hard to be ND when no one cares, and no one bothers.
sock rate tees | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:37 pm | #

SOCK:

BCS and TV contracts would belie your last sentence.....apparently the fact you posted at all would belie that as well...whatever.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 12:45 pm | #

Its hard when "TV contract" is the faint torch you carry to light the way along a pitch black and lonely path that has no other illumination and nothing at the end.

And when the peacock flies away to roost in meadows more lush , what will light your way then?
sock rate tees | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 1:03 pm | #

Sock Rate Tees - People have been announcing the death of ND football for nearly 70 years now. And each and every single time they have been wrong. I realize you're just trying to be a general wise ass, but pick something original. Or better yet, find another team blog to bother.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 1:28 pm | #

If you domers think this crap is about Michigan being scared of you and your alleged future success, you're wrong. We all know it's about the money and what's right for U-M's athletic department. The posturing and insults against Michigan are comedy -- you guys are just like those clowns from Columbus, with about 10 more IQ points.

Can't wait to hang a hundred on you this fall in Ann Arbor.

47-21
IowaWolverine | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 2:08 pm | #

Not death. That's misrepresentation.

Just a settling into mediocrity.

...
sock rate tees | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 2:25 pm | #

Hmmm, seems like a statement such as "I don't want to drop it" implies...ya know....that Michigan doesn't want to drop it.

Stop trying to take potshots against us off the field simply because you can't beat us on it.

47-21, chumps. We ain't neva scared
GoBlue357 | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 2:31 pm | #

Maybe the Michigan fans should realize that the lower ranked team has a history of winning the ND/UM game. In 2005, ND was ranked in the 20's, UM was #2. ND won. Last year, the roles were reversed and UM won.

Sure, ND is going to be a big underdog in Ann Arbor, but to assume another blowout is to be ignorant of the history of this storied series.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 3:16 pm | #

And I'm not about to tolerate a freakin' flame war in the middle of May because everyone is starved for college football talk. Everyone find something better to do with your time.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 3:20 pm | #

Pat,

We appreciated you coming over to mgoblog and trying to calm the fury by explaining that many of those posting on your blog are ignorant and misrepresented your point. However, you should know....

There's never a bad time for a bit of CFB rivalry heat.
sock rate tees | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 4:01 pm | #

Nice try sock rate, but I never said that those that comment on BGS are ignorant. I said some were overzealous. Big difference.

Don't try and twist my words too. There's been enough of that today.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 4:07 pm | #

Uh, Pat? If you didn't want a flame war, perhaps you should have started it?
Jackwraith | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 4:42 pm | #

Sorry Lost Boy..time for us all to move on. Ignore the trolls.

Edited By Siteowner
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 4:52 pm | #

Neither school will suffer. In recent seasons when the Michigan-Notre Dame series took a hiatus, ND scheduled Ohio State (1995/6) and Nebraska (2000/1) to a couple of home-and-home series. That open slot in Septmeber will better allow the Irish to play another major BCS program from the Big XII, SEC or the ACC. In the BCS era, schools like Oklahoma or Louisiana State or Florida State would probably prefer playing Notre Dame early in the season rather than during conference play.

Michigan is like the majority of other BCS programs--the Wolverines will generally play one major non-conference opponent per season in a home-and-home arrangement. For the most part, that's meant Notre Dame (in 2000/1, UM played at UCLA and at Washington). Contrary to some of the commentary above, I would fully expect the Wolverines play a single major OOC opponent from a BCS conference each season when not playing Notre Dame. Besides remaining competitive in terms of SOS, the ticket-buying public (in a stadium that will undergo a major renovation in the next few years) and the networks will be looking for it as well.
cutter | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 5:36 pm | #

Aww shute, man. Supernova dark sun wasted.

That's like Truman telling LeMay to stop fire bombing Japan, then using the A-bomb - twice.

Ok. The bombers will come home.
"The recall code, OPE, is being acknowledged roger by elements of the 843 bomb wing."

Next time, I'll blow up the CRM114 and fly real low!
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 6:01 pm | #

I can't wait until the Michigan game this year.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 6:08 pm | #

I graduated from both Michigan and Notre Dame, and I'm getting a kick out of these comments.

(folks who don't read the comments on fark.com probably won't get that)

Still, I don't want the game to go away. It's threads like this that make it apparent how important it is to fans on both sidelines.
DagerOne | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 7:07 pm | #

Some would say...too important...mwahahaha.
bgs reader | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 7:27 pm | #

Jay,

I wholeheartedly agree. ND has had a lot of success in Ann Arbor when they have a good coach. A win in either Happy Valley or Ann Arbor would do wonders for the confidence of a young team.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 8:49 pm | #

We are Mighty Michigan...Nd's aspirational aspration; 19-14-1.
Azul, Mgo Azul | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 9:02 pm | #

FACTS:

"ND needs Mighty Michigan..so to He-- with Notre Dame; Glen Bo Schembechler, legend...whon ND gave a moment of silence in honor of him... ND has handed out so many worthless Nd honoary degrees and monograms to UM alums & faculty FOR A REASON; UM is greater than the IVY league. Our scholar warriors at UM become PRESIDENT of THE USA...ND steroid juiced, MARIJUANA illegal drug possessing tarnished rapist and sexual batterering payola taking Notree Dumb jocks get herded into easy gut "marketing" major (and "Communications ( both which at ND are a JOKE ; they actually have a required text at ND called "Finance for Dummies" Shocking but true) and then when it HANDS out a weorthless ND degree to these grammatically challenged criminals from the easy drunken notre dame FOOTBALL FACTORY party school and RACIST ND INSTITUION of non-diversity, they wonder "why" Rocket , Bettiss, AAron Taylored can't speak in a grammatically correct way or why racist drunks l;ike Paul Horntoad and /or Alland Pinkerton or worse : Alm, Dubose, etc, END up the way they do-leaving ND w/ a tpilet paper degree but NO REAL education. Notre SHAME on your criminal EVIL TARNISHED DOME in the crime infested slums of dank, cold, cultureless boarded up slums of Slouch bends.
Suggestion: on your large "parochial" ND campus of a whopping 88000 undergrads try HIRING more than 1(ONE!) measley black professor who has tenure on your RACIST Notre Campus...Better yet...since ND has NEVER hired a BLACK HEAD COACH in ANY SPORT....except for the 1(one) RACIST NOTRE SLIMe FIRED BEFORE his contract is up- try stop living down to your sleazy Notre rep as "The Bob Jones University of the Midwest" As bad as box office LOSER RUDY(SUCKS!) ; ND's mickey mouse EASY academics and its renegade corrupt scandal filled historical football programs are the REAL stories "why" UM kept your football FACTORY of cheaters out of "our league"! STAY independent and keep enduring the NCAA rcord for consecutive bowl chokes, ANNUAL HORRIBLE NBC overall TV ratings EVERY year, and all those non winning seasons and near monthly Notre SCANDALS .
ND should stay that way and in the BIG LEAST in all other sports... call it DIVINE justice by YAHWEH...MIGHTY MICHIGAN is , after all, YAHWEH's chosen University. Shalom. - Your Meeechigan MASTERS! 19-14-1; 47-21...Sacred "carcajou" fans will ENJOY (immensely) this falls UM/ND football game in the MOSTT FAMOUS and UNIQUE stadium in the world; the iconic SHRINE ; THE BIG HOUSE. Heh-heh , Does 38-0 or 47- 21 MASSACRES still make you Damesters embarrased & humiliated ; well, imagie what MIGHTY Michigan will do to your Notre Slime this fall in the House that YOST built! NIGHMARE for DAMESTERSl jubilation for THE LEADERS and BEST. Case closed, MGOAZUL.
Azul, Mgo Azul | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 9:18 pm | #

By the way, since Bo became Michigan's coach, Michigan has played a variety of impressive non-conference opponents (including ND). Excluding the ND game, however, they have played the majority at home. Indeed, Michigan has played only 15 out of 92 non-conference/non-ND games away from the Big House (to be fair, it would be tough to compare ND in this instance because ND doesn't play a set conference schedule). While it may be true, therefore, that Michigan will play decent teams should the series with ND be canceled, history shows that Michigan will play most of them at home.
PJC | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 9:26 pm | #

Well, PJC, ND "can" claim the Commander in Chief trophy! (ROTFWL)... The fct is UM is #1 all time in S.O.S....It hasto play PSU and OSU ..2 of THE TOP 5 programs of all time EVERY year..plus perrenial BIg10 football near annual bowl caliber powers like WISCONSIN(#5 in final 2006 football polls, ), Minnesota, Iowa, and even MSU most years..that would be the same Fartan team that has a long winning streak versus Nd on ND "sod".
the fact is ND's overall schedule these past 20 years is FILLED w/ Army, air Craps, Navy whom even the LAST place teams in the MAC would CLOBBER( BTW, those 3 sissies are all among the TOP 10 most frequently played Nd opponents of all time and yet ND did not play nearby OSU from the BIG 10 -whom UM must PLAY EVERY SEASON- for over 50 fricken years then in the last 10-12 years ND FINALLY played OSU thrice and the Buckeyes SLAUGHTERD ND all 3 times!

ND needs UM because NBC calls the shots and despite ND's intentional planned EASY "overall" annual schedules...they will keepplaying the service acads Rutgers, Northwestern( heh-heh UNTIL Northwestern started kicking Notre Rot's fannies), Baylor, Vandy, Hawaii, Rice, stan-turd, Duke UNC , and other bum of the month club. NBC literally told ND that it will NOT continue to subsidize the low rated ND TV home games much longer unless they bow & kiss UM's ass to do whatever it takes to keep ND TV ratings OVERALL from falling into a deeper toilet. ND needs UM...MIGHTY MICHIGAN is THE standard of integrity, academics, and yes, is THE #1 football DYNASTY...Think about it; UM has not had a losing season since LBJ was president! Moreover its #1 currently as well in consecutive bowl apearances.
ND is like once proud football powers/now has beens like Navy , Army, or Minnesota. Sure Navy and Minnesota still field OCCASIONALLY bowl bouns teams but like ND , they will never again likely be CONSISTENTLY great. Minnesota is at least respectable because it plays in the TOUGHEST and oldest league of all time whereas Navy and Army play patsies...UM will NEVER move to accomodate ND in October or November...UM will not allow ND to create its own "refs", UM ias ND's master all time in ALL 4 major mens' sports. UM is "The People's Champion" and medias darling; parochial ND is a tarnished football factory of hypocricy, greed and corruption. they ASPIRE to Be UM but are NOT the Great the only LEADERS & BEST; MIGHTY FANTABULOUS PURE and AWESOME Meeechigan. The ND insecurity, low self esteem, jealousy & envy toward UM is rampant. UM is SUPERIOR to ND in EVERYTHING and Damesters hate UM's commitment to GWENUINE EXCELLENCE in virtuous matters. God hath ordained UM as the standard. Case closed. LEADERS & BEST.
Azul, Mgo Azul | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 9:47 pm | #

I am an Michigan homer with his head in his ass.
Azul, Mgo Azul | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 10:00 pm | #

And my post got the recall code?

"Mandrake, I suppose it never occurred to you that while we're chatting here so enjoyably, a decision is being made by the President and the Joint Chiefs in the war room at the Pentagon. And when they realize there is no possibility of recalling the wing, there will be only one course of action open: total committment."
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 10:44 pm | #

Nothing like a refreshing glass of rainwater and pure grain alcohol to cool the humors.
indy | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 11:21 pm | #

We're going to leave that up, preserved like a mastodon in a tar pit.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 11:40 pm | #

Azul, Mgo Azul is a ND homer trying to sully UM. Pathetic domers.
JohnnyDrama | Email | Homepage | 05.24.07 - 11:58 pm | #

He is absolutely not. He is a longtime UM fanatic who haunted NDNation for years. In fact this might be an old rant, reposted by someone who saved it for posterity.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 12:07 am | #

september can't come soon enough.
tyler | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 1:18 am | #

Kill the series. Call Miami and get rid of this end-of-the-year at Stanford nonsense every other year.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 2:10 am | #

I like to pointlessly troll...
JohnnyDrama | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 3:32 am | #

Azul,

I presume UM taught you to spell.
Enough said.
GB | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 4:23 am | #

Why does everything always have to be Notre Dame's way or ND will throw a tizzy fit? ND just had 12 years straight of having it their way with no USC and Michigan away games in the same year. Now that ND "might" have to lose that temporarily to be fair and compromise they throw a tizzy about Michigan's easy schedule.... You can't talk about easy schedules, when Weiss called the Coast Guard just to double check that they didn't also have an academy with a team. So why don't ND fans realize that the world doesn't revolve around South Bend and that sometimes compromise is needed and ND is in the middle of having its way for 12 years and it is ND who is being immature about the scheduling not Michigan - which just wants it to be fair.

ND doesn't want to have Michigan and USC as away games in the same year more than Michigan doesn't want ND and OSU as away games in the same year. Because Michigan already agreed for 12 years to have it ND's way, but ND is the one being a spoiled coward by refusing to have it be the other way for a short time period.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 6:35 am | #

At this point, I'd just like to mention how funny the "ND plays all the service academies every year" line is. In the past 20 years, ND has played Army exactly 3 times. For Michigan fans, that's as many times as UM has played Miami of Ohio.

Yes, ND plays Navy every year, but as all Irish fans know, that is because of ND's debt of honor towards the Naval Academy. As long as Navy wants to play ND, ND will schedule them.

Air Force has popped up on the schedule 11 times in the past 20 years, but only 3 times in the past 10 (and they were ranked in the Top 25 for one of those years).

Looking ahead, neither Air Force nor Army are on the tentative future schedules through 2016.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 8:47 am | #

BTW,

Don't knock the Coast Guard Academy. It has a history in the Citrus Bowl. Not kidding. Coast Guard, then coached by the great Otto Graham, was in the 1963 Citrus Bowl (then the Tangerine bowl I believe). Now they did get drubbed 27-0 by Western Kentucky, but as any ND fan knows, bowl difficulties occasionally happen (and I will note that my Wolverines are currently on a 4-game bowl losing streak).
masked avenger | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 10:49 am | #

How do you know it's UM:

1) Currently winningest

2) Currently winningest by Yost-ing for decades

3) Currently winningest by Yost-ing for decades AND schedules cupcakes (compass Michigan) that make our cupcakes (Navy, Army, UNC) look strong.

4) Currently winningest by Yost-ing for decades AND schedules cupcakes (compass Michigan) that make our cupcakes (Navy, Army, UNC) look strong AND now need Div. II to keep the bowl streak going.

UM trolls, keep on Yosting and we'll keep posting.

Seriously, UM alums need to demand a higher standard. Require only Div. I potsers and cupcakes. Div. II is an insult to UM's reputation.

Bombers holding at fail safe. Nuclear consent: negative.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 11:45 am | #

the simple fact of the matter is that UM does NOT want to drop this game. and Bill Martin the UM AD made it VERY clear that he wants to keep playing this game. There is no indictment upon ND or its fans, but it's just ridiculous that BGS spun this to make it seem like UM was trying to back out of the game. BGS is a farce
Ike | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 12:43 pm | #

Ike,

Foreign policy is a farce. BGS is an ND blog - with opinions. If you don't like them, move on.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 1:31 pm | #

What a bunch of idiots. The guy says he is trying to renew the series and we get this display. Brilliant.

SOS? Are you guys joking? Your SOS each year is pathetic. Pathetic. Fine you don't play army or air force every year, but navy hasn't been good since WWII. Literally. If they were remotely competitive they would have won at least one time in the last 50 years. News flash: they have not. What about Stanford? Garbage (hope Harbaugh doesn't spank you now).

Freshmen in High School have never seen you win a bowl game.

You have lost at least 3 games every year for, what? 15 years? You average a losing season every 5 years. Michigan hasn't had one in 40 years.

Yes ND is a pre-season game, because we play in a conference. Bulletin board material? So stupid. Join a conference panzies. I would want to drop MSU and Purdue if I were you too, because those perenially, midling Big Ten teams expose you for the fraud that you are just about every year. If you think that game against MSU this year had anything to do with your team, you weren't watching that game. That was pure poor coaching. no running the ball in the second half? In the rain? One guy had 115 yards the first half and got the ball three times in the second half. Up 30.

You are the most overrated team year in and year out. Brady Quinn was on the cover of every pre-season magazine. The boxer. The tall stiff receiver. Return to Glory, part VI (i believe there was a book with that title - again). Then you get plastered by the only three good teams you played. UM, USC, LSU. Plastered is an understatement.

The Big Ten is weak? Doesn't make your team look too good when MSU owns you at home. OSU spanks you consistently. UM beats you by the second most points in SCHOOL HISTORY at home. Awesome.
suavdaddy | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 2:23 pm | #

I don't much care whether we play Nebraska in the future. But Nebraska fans are vicious, whiny, self-absorbed. If the Irish schedules them again in the future, the state of Nebraska pees a ring around itself in anticipation. I don't think it likely they will schedule the Irish early in the season now that we have a real coach and a winning attitude. They like the Davieham approach.
Coffee Colored Angel | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 2:48 pm | #

I am a Michigan homer, flaming for no reason on an ND blog...
suvadaddy | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 2:57 pm | #

Suav Or Suva {are you from Fiji?}

Why would a national School join a regional conference?{ in football anyway}

Were I Wolverine fan I would simply say that your team did its talking on the field. In 2006.

Otherwise you just sound like a yahoo from Georgia tech.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 4:24 pm | #

College Football Data Warehouse lists Michigan at #1 in all-time strength of schedule (SOS) rankings and Notre Dame at #3. See http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/ ...ed_rankings.php

Sorenson's football database also lists the annual strength-of-schedule (SOS) rankings for teams. See http://www.phys.utk.edu/ sorensen...CF_History.html

Here's how Michigan looks since 1993 when Penn State joined the Big Ten and the 85-scholarship limit went into effect (and five years prior to the B10 and P10 becoming part of the BCS)

UM SOS (Record)

1993 - 18 (8-4)
1994 - 1 (8-4)
1995 - 9 (9-4)
1996 - 4 (8-4)
1997 - 36 (12-0)
1998 - 43 (10-3)
1999 - 2 (10-2)
2000 - 41 (9-3)
2001 - 17 (8-4)
2002 - 9 (10-3)
2003 - 23 (10-3)
2004 - 35 (9-3)
2005 - 1 (7-5)
2006 - 12 (11-2)

Average - 17.92 (9.21-3.14)

Here's the same numbers for Notre Dame:

1993 - 26 (11-1)
1994 - 3 (6-5-1)
1995 - 12 (9-3)
1996 - 36 (8-3)
1997 - 28 (7-6)
1998 - 46 (9-3)
1999 - 14 (5-7)
2000 - 14 (9-3)
2001 - 12 (5-6)
2002 - 13 (10-3)
2003 - 1 (5-7)
2004 - 7 (6-6)
2005 - 27 (9-3)
2006 - 19 (10-3)

Average - 18.42 (7.78-5.07-0.33)

Number of Top 10 SOS schedules:

Michigan - 6 of 14
Notre Dame - 3 of 14

Number of Top 20 SOS schedules:

Michigan - 9 of 14
Notre Dame - 9 of 14

Number of Top 30 SOS schedules:

Notre Dame - 12 of 14
Michigan - 10 of 14

Overall, Michigan and Notre Dame have had comparable schedules when looking at relative strength. You can look at the last 14 years or go all the way back to the late 1880s and you'll get the same conclusion. So all this discussion about UM playing directional school and MAC teams or ND playing the service academies and competing the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy is essentially moot.
cutter | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 5:10 pm | #

excellent post cutter.

The really funny thing is that if you re-read all the original comments for this post, only two made reference to Michigan's SOS. But those two were the ones cherry-picked and highlighted as representatives of the entire post over on mgoblog, which led to the attacks on here from Michigan fans about ND's strength of schedule. The vast majority of ND fans here didn't bring up Michigan's strength of schedule because they know it's historically very strong.

Personally, I hope ND keeps playing Michigan as much as possible and I can't wait for this September's game up in Ann Arbor.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 5:42 pm | #

Fact of the matter is that it is Notre Dame that is being immature and cowardly in this whole scheduling situation.

ND has had its way FOR TWELVE YEARS STRAIGHT in not having to have both Michigan and USC as away games...

Why shouldn't there be a compromise? Why must ND fans be so arrogant and stubborn as to only have it their way?

Isn't it fair that Michigan gets it their way at least part of the time without the leprechauns throwing a hissy fit and expanding Martin's words of saying he wants to work out a deal into meaning he is dropping it.

The Irish vs Wolverine series has been set up to HELP ND's season schedule for 12 years at the expense of Michigan's.... Time for a compromise or time for the spoiled hissy fit Irish to be dropped.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 6:01 pm | #

The Wolverines will beat the Irish this fall. We know it and expect it.

However, over the next decade, the Blue will lose and maybe they should get out while the going is good.
Judge60 | Email | Homepage | 05.25.07 - 11:59 pm | #

Where has the notion arrived that ND "is being immature and cowardly in this whole scheduling situation"? Have any officials from Notre Dame even made comments about dropping the series, or refusing to reschedule to help Michigan's season ticket holders? Have their been any comments by White related to ths matter at all? Sure, Martin mentions he is in "discussions" with ND officials, but that could mean anything.

At first, I didn't really care whether we play UM and USC at home/home and away/away. But then, after reading these comments and the comments at mgoblue, all I can say is:

Screw you, Michigan! Why should Notre Dame cater their carefully planned schedule for the benefit of Michigan season ticket holders? If Michigan's AD was too stupid 5 or 10 years ago when the contract with ND was signed to realize that he had just locked Michigan into a scheduling conundrum, then so be it! He gets what he deserves for not paying attention. And so do the Michigan fans and ticket holders for putting up with the moron who did this to them! Michigan made their bed - now sleep in it!

At this point, I have reached the conclusion that despite the fact that Michigan has more wins than ND, a better overall record than ND, and beat the crap out of us the last 2 times they have come to South Bend, blah, blah, blah, blah...Michigan fans are nothing but a bunch of whiners and complainers that are still living with the ghost of Fielding Yost in their bedsheets.

Hey, Skunkbears...you don't like your ND and OSU scheduling situation? Too bad! Suck it up and bring it on! 2006 is over, 2007 is here. 4 months to go!
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 1:32 am | #

LOL chrisnd. You can't be serious.
Korea Blue | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 3:36 am | #

Typical Irish arrogant and cowardly response.

ND has had its way for 12 years and is panick striken at the idea of having both Michigan and USC as away games. Michigan already has had OSU, ND and PSU as away games every other year. Michigan dealt with it for over a decade because ND was too afraid to schedule Michigan unless it would alternate with USC's away games back then.

Hey arrogant cowards, the world doesn't revolve around South Bend. You were too big of cowards to compromise last time, now you should be dropped if you can't compromise this time.

It will all be on Notre Dame's spoiled hands if the series gets dropped since they have had it their way for over decade and are too immature to compromise at the moment.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 8:03 am | #

Bennie that's "panic" without a k, unless you are role player at Colonial Williamsburg.

By dropping ND ,Michigan makes the decision that winning the Big Ten has greater priority than winning the National Championship.

ND can replace the wolverines with another equally attractive opponent.

It's a great series with lots of hostility from both sides, which is why it must be kept.

From an NC standpoint it serves Michigan's purposes even more to keep it.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 10:35 am | #

Dana,
Since you are correcting mistakes, you forgot to add an "a" before role player. Also your comma is in the wrong spot in your second sentence.

Fact of the matter is that Michigan was willing to compromise for 12 years. Notre Dame is afraid to compromise.

Big Old Charlie knows that he can't handle an away game in LA and AA in the same year and the thought of that is making his greasy face sweat like chicken in a roaster.

Michigan can also find an equally attractive opponent, one that isn't so arrogant (and cowardly) as to have everything their way.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 11:32 am | #

Technically, ND is playing an away game in LA and Ann Arbor this coming season.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 2:17 pm | #

Bennie,

You are correct on the "a" .



Regarding arrogance ND is fortunate , that in football at least it is not strapped with a {the Big Ten} conference .

Understanding, one's value in the market place is not being arrogant.

TV contracts and the like reflect that ND is a unique commodity.

Indeed much interest is driven by ND haters. ie places like GT that can't normally fill up their stadiums .

Regarding arrogance it is interesting to look at the influence of Ann Arbor in preventing Michigan State being designated a University until 1955. Budgeting you know.

Ex MSU coach notwithstanding...Spartan loyalists probably have more of a beef with you than with us.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 2:28 pm | #

Ps: should have put a comma after arrogance in the first sentence.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 2:30 pm | #

Dana,
Perhaps some Spartan fans have a problem with Weis lying about getting slapped in the face, which killed a MSU drive with a phantom 15 yard penalty. Weis lacks class.

Notre Dame is being arrogant and stubborn. Michigan wants to compromise and so Irish fans run amuck claiming that means UofM is afraid and blah blah blah... More like ND is afraid to have UofM and USC as away games in the same year. Stinking cowards.

Michigan has as much market pull as ND and offers its opponents as much $$$ as ND does. The fact is Michigan and ND only had this current series, because Michigan was mature enough to give into ND's spoiled hissy fit the first time. Now that there is a chance that Michigan might not give in a second time without a FAIR compromise ND fans are throwing a temper tantrum. ND has some of the least classy fans around...just like Weis getting slapped in the face.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 2:59 pm | #

Pat,
No, technically ND is playing USC in South Bend and UofM in Ann Arbor this season. You suggesting otherwise is almost as stupid as Dana not realizing that schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and etc don't have their own TV contracts, is because the BigTen conference forbids it.

P.S. for Dana, currently BOTH MSU and UofM is preventing other schools from getting more funding. It is called politics and $$$. You are pretty ignorant of the real world...then again you are a typical Irish fan who thinks that ND should have its way 100% of the time and anyone who doesn't bend over and take it is less than dirt.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 3:08 pm | #

Bennie, you might want to take a look at ND's schedule. They play in LA this year...against UCLA. Apparently in your haste to try and drop the hammer, you didn't look at ND's schedule. Or is it that you have never looked at ND's schedule?

Also, your compromise argument is ridiculous. How do you know what the original negotiation was? Perhaps Michigan just didn't realize what they were doing. That's their mistake, and ND is under no obligation to do the same. Why should ND be punished for making shrewd scheduling moves?

Also, ND's "unwillingness to compromise" is nothing compared to Crisler/Yost's refusal to play based partly on religious bigotry, and partly on jealousy.
IrishRugby | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 4:11 pm | #

Not to distract anyone from their off season flame war but I can't find the energy for it until an actual game is on the horizon. Seriously, Yost is an ice arena?

I don't think UM's desire to switch around the ND series has anything to do with fear of losing or Weis. Take a look at UM's 2008 schedule and you will find your solution. UM wants to have a marquee home game every year. Nothing against Wisconsin, PSU, or MSU but that marquee game is generally OSU or the powerhouse non conference slot. Martin has to worry about what is best for UM. So, he has started a public dialogue about what UM needs--to switch around the ND series. This has nothing to do with flinching or being macho. ND has to do what is in their best interest. They may decide that they are not inclined to switch around the series. If that happened I would expect UM to schedule a different non conference powerhouse because they need to avoid home schedules like 2008. I doubt any spat will last long because this series is too good for everyone. A short break might remind everyone of that.

It's a business, gentlemen. As a UM fan, I can say that it is in UM's best interest that ND be good because UM wants to play high profile big football games. UM and ND have a relationship, history, tradition, and regional interest which cannot easily be replaced. However, UM needs to tweak their schedule and if ND doesn't want to play ball then UM will have to find some else who will.
imfreak | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 4:45 pm | #

imfreak,

Good point about marquee home games once a year. Glad to see a well supported (UM) post. Those are welcome.

Personally, I am ashamed of the Navy streak. 40+ in a row and we still continue? If there weren't some butt-saving history there - ND would have no business hanging on to such a one-sided deal. We can't get Navy off, but ND has little excuse with Army, UNC's of the world. Everyone schedules "breather" games, ala Bowden, but ND needs a little higher standard than currently being inked.

On the flipside, I respect the UM program and legit fans (trolls excepted) and didn't like a Div II ink on your side. If I were an alum, I would be steamed at your AD. UM is better than that. The NCAA fubar-ed when they allowed a Div II game to toward bowl eligibility. Before that, no top tier school would have considered such a sub-standard foe. No playoffs, now this? What's next from the NCAA?

Personally, I like the UM series. Lot's of epic games, legendary coaches, bragging rights and an occasional NC decided in there. What's not to like?

How about a staggered base 11 game series? First 5 staggered to UM's schedule, 1 at Soldier Field (when Bears on the road) first half covered by ABC, second half by NBC (LOL!), last 5 games staggered to ND schedule. Every five years or so, you could change the stagger if you wanted: UM5, ND5, ND5, UM5 or just alternate. Savvy?

ND has some crap with Navy in Ireland, why not have the middle / offset game at a reasonably neutral field?

Bad as it is, it's better than another hiatus.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 5:48 pm | #

Good points imfreak....Bennie,the budgeting I was referring to alluded to that very point.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 5:58 pm | #

Irish Rugby,
Are you stupid? ND doesn't want to play USC and UofM away in the same year. Is UCLA the same as USC? You probably also think playing FIU is the same as playing UofMiami, since they are both in "Miami."
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 7:15 pm | #

TheLostBoy,
The staggered game is what Michigan wanted originally since both ND and UofM wanted their 2 biggest games to alternate between home and away. However, ND wouldn't give in then, and ND probably won't give in now. UofM may have little choice to spite the series.

As far as Appalachian State goes, it is an embarassment and all UofM fans should be ashamed. However, Appalachian State is not a Divsion II school as you say, it is a D1AA school and better than a lot of D1A teams, considering that they have won 2 back to back D1AA titles. I realize that you are knew to college football and don't understand the distinction between D1A and D1AA, but it is a level between D1A and DII. Considering that several D1AA teams beat D1A teams last year, it is fair to say that Appalachian State (back to back D1AA champs) is better than a few D1A teams. The worst team on Michigan's schedule next year is D1A Eastern Michigan, not Appalachian State.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 7:21 pm | #

Appalachian State reminds me a lot of Notre Dame...

2006 season, ND loses to a 10-3 LSU by 27 points, LSU outgains ND by 286 yards.

2005 season, Appalachian State loses to an 11-2 LSU by 24 points, LSU outgains ASU by 115 yards.

Well, except Appalachian State did slightly better against a slightly better LSU team than Notre Dame...ha!
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 7:33 pm | #

What I am hearing from ND fans is that they are too afraid to play 2 big teams on the road to compromise like Michigan did for several years to keep the series alive.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.26.07 - 11:08 pm | #

Pat-

I would recommend you look at the comments from Subway Alumni, Fighting Binny, atepesm, Dana Payne and Brad. Although they don't use the term strength-of-schedule, their comments certainly suggest that Michigan's SOS has been subpar, that UM runs away from tough competition, that the Big Ten isn't very good, etc.

Other Notre Dame football boards, such as ND Nation, also mimic many of the comments and sentiments that are found on this post.

I went back to Sorenson's database and did some more comparisons about the two schools' schedules since 1993.

Michigan played 173 games in that time period and went 129-44 (.74566). 91 (52.6%) of those games were played in Michigan Stadium, 68 (39.3%) were regular season road games and 14 (8.1%) were bowl games. Here's the breakdown by final opponent power ranking per Sorenson's website-

Top 10 Teams (31 of 173 opponents or 17.9%) - 15 at Michigan Stadium, 11 Away during regular season, 5 bowl opponents

Top 25 Teams (68 of 173 opponents or 39.3%) - 28 at Michigan Stadium, 28 Away during regular season, 12 bowl opponents

Top 50 Teams (113 of 173 opponents or 65.3%) - 47 at Michigan Stadium, 52 Away during regular season, 14 bowl opponents

Notre Dame played 169 games from 1993 to 2006 and went 109-59-1 (.64793). 85 (50.3%) of the games were played at Notre Dame Stadium, 62 (36.7%) were regular season road games, 12 (7.1%) were regulars season games at neutral sites and 10 (5.9%) were bowl games. Here's ND's breakdown:

Top 10 Teams (28 of 169 opponents or 16.6%) - 13 at Notre Dame Stadium, 8 Away during regular season, 1 at neutral site during regular season and 6 bowl games

Top 25 Teams (64 of 169 opponents or 37.9%) - 32 at Notre Dame Stadium, 20 Away during regular season, 2 at neutral sites during regular season and 10 bowl games

Top 50 Teams (111 of 169 opponents or 65.7%) - 55 at Notre Dame Stadium, 41 Away during regular season, 5 at neutral sites during regular season and 10 bowl games
cutter | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 3:02 am | #

1) App. St is I-AA not Div II - my bad.

2) We should still dump some low hanging ink.

3) Cutter is intent on factual substantiation to disrupt the summer doldrum smackdown.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 10:55 am | #

Well, I appreciate the research and reasoned posting from you cutter. I do think that both fanbases are annoyed at their respective AD's right now for adding less than thrilling home games. I know I'd much rather see ND try to play tougher teams than Duke, Nevada, and San Diego State.

Of course, so much of scheduling is a crapshoot. ND scheduled North Carolina a while back, thinking it would be a decent BCS conference opponent. Instead, ND gets a team that went 1-10 and dragged down ND's strength of schedule. But now they have Butch Davis and are recruiting like gangbusters, which means the return date to Chapel Hill in 2008 should hopefully find a much more respectable opponent.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 11:12 am | #

I love Michigan fans. It provides me with a daily laugh at how ridiculously stupid they are and how they don't look at their own school. Michigan is one of the finest schools in the country, yet their graduation rates are ridiculously low for their athletes and especially their black athletes. Notre Dame grads have always been praised in the NFL for their interviewing skills. The curriculum at ND is as tough if not tougher than that at U of M. You had one insignificant president that was not even elected and you hail yourself as the University of presidents. Navy has graduated more presidents. I love how the Michigan fans feel like they can infiltrate this blog site and show their total stupidity. Makes for a good laugh from those of us who truly understand college football. As for Bo, a graduate of Miami of Ohio, a Woody Hayes disciple who never won a national championship while at Michigan. The only reason that U of M has more victories than ND is that they have played longer. Believe me if not for Rockne college football would have taken a long time to become the intersectional glamour game that it is today. I dont care if we play Michigan after 2011, I believe their fans are the most arrogant in the country. Everyone hates ND because they can command so much in the college football world. They are a national school and I would love to see what would happen if Michigan and Ohio St home games were televised nationally every week and see what the viewership is compared to ND. NBC came to ND with the deal years ago when the CFA, which is now defunct changed the tv scheduling. By the way Oklahoma and Georgia started the court action to allow schools to negotioate their own tv contracts. Why even respond to some of these idiotic flamers who pathetically have to come here and try to disrupt a good blog site that is very well informed. Do we go to their blogsite and act as idiots or is this only reserved for Michigan and Ohio St fans?
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 12:45 pm | #

I love Navy , really, but Michigan has alot more to be proud of with Jerry Ford than Peanut Jimmy any day.



I was not aware of Navy graduating any other presidents.

"No college" did pretty well with Washington and Lincoln.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 1:51 pm | #

Regarding National Championships Princeton claims to have won 28, so I guess both ND and UM have some catching up to do.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 2:12 pm | #

I like to check this blog out occasionally so I’m not interested in ‘infiltrating’ and ‘disrupting’ it but I have to go to the hardware store and get a lock to install on my roof hatch. Infiltrating and disrupting are a good procrastinating technique.

“You had one insignificant president that was not even elected and you hail yourself as the University of presidents.”

Personally, I think the time immediately post Nixon was very significant for the country (impeachment being a national crisis of the first order) but that aside do people really talk about UM as the University of presidents? I don’t know since I only went there for graduate school and they locked us in labs away from the undergrads. I also can’t say anything about the arrogance because all the Ph.D. and med students I knew were too overworked and beaten to be arrogant about anything. I went to undergrad at Miami (of Ohio) University (a school that rightfully has a reputation for snobbiness since it is the best thing going in Ohio) which brings me to my next point.

“As for Bo, a graduate of Miami of Ohio, a Woody Hayes disciple who never won a national championship while at Michigan.”

Yes, Bo won no national championships but we love him anyway. However, is there something wrong with having gone to Miami? Woody also coached at Miami. As did Ara Parseghian, who was also a student there. So, I’m a bit mystified about the relevance of that tidbit. I’m also perplexed about the importance of the Hayes connection. Hayes’ abusive personality aside, he was one of the best coaches in his day. While at Miami, Parseghian even coached under him.

While I’m no cutter I did do some quick work checking out this contention.

“The only reason that U of M has more victories than ND is that they have played longer. “

It’s impossible to say for sure but here are some numbers. UM has 849 wins and started playing football in 1879. ND has 802 wins and started playing in 1887. Michigan went 11-6 in the years before ND started playing. Going strictly by the numbers, UM has 838 wins to ND’s 802 over the time both have been playing football. Of course, it is possible that in 8 years before ND started playing (2 of which UM played no recorded games) UM gained considerable experience allowing them to win more games than ND over the next 100+ years. That seems an unlikely explanation to me but then again I don’t care at all so maybe I’m not the best judge.

I hope I haven’t been too disruptive. You can all go back to bad mouthing Fielding Yost (may I suggest Fritz Crysler or Bennie Osterbahn when you’re done with Yost?)
imfreak | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 2:27 pm | #

I'd take an honest, non-corrupt Prez over a lyin' corrupt homer any day.

Sigh.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 4:32 pm | #

The amazing thing if you really look at the records is that over time Michigan has played 46 more games than ND. Michigan has 842 wins, if ND had played the same number of games with the same winning percentage that they have accumulated and tied 6 fewer games as Michigan has and converted them to wins then both schools would have identical records. This is why they say the rivalry is good for college football. Fans of both schools should hate to see this rivalry end because it is definitely good for both schools. In all honesty, there are no two teams better matched than the Wolverines and the Irish.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 5:39 pm | #

Doug,
That reverts us back to square one.

A) ND doesn't want both USC and UofM away games in the same year.

B) UofM doesn't want ND, OSU, and PSU away games in the same year.

C) The only reason why the current series is happening is because Michigan was willing to compromise when Notre Dame was stubborn.

D) Notre Dame will probably have to "learn" to compromise for the Michigan vs Notre Dame series to be renewed.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 11:23 pm | #

Since someone brought up winning %...

Past 10 seasons:
#4 UofM 0.77419
#31 ND 0.61475

Past 20 seasons:
#4 UofM 0.75918
#11 ND 0.70370

Past 30 years:
#4 UofM 0.75820
#17 ND 0.67877

Past 40 years:
#2 UofM 0.77101
#11 0.70878

Past 50 years:
#8 UofM 0.72935
#13 ND 0.68728

Past 60 seasons:
#5 UofM 0.72920
#8 ND 0.70105

Past 70 seasons:
#4 UofM 0.73231
#6 ND 0.71607

Past 80 seasons:
#4 UofM 0.72269
#5 ND 0.72000

Past 90 seasons:
#1 ND 0.73648
#3 UofM 0.73018

You have to use just the past 90 seasons for ND to have a higher winning percentage than Michigan. Think about that...you have to go back 90 years, you have to use the 90 most recent college football seasons for ND to have a higher winning percentage than UofM... Of course if you use ALL TIME...Michigan is #1. I think it is time to stop making excuses and say currently Michigan has the best all time win percentage.

Check it out at: http://football.stassen.com/reco...te- request.html
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.27.07 - 11:36 pm | #

Keep the series ....in some way shape or form, period.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 05.28.07 - 1:46 am | #

"Keep the series ....in some way shape or form, period."

Dana, weren't you the one earlier who was saying that it was okay for ND to be stubborn and arrogant, because they know their "market value?"

A) ND doesn't want both USC and UofM away games in the same year.

B) UofM doesn't want ND, OSU, and PSU away games in the same year.

C) The only reason why the current series is happening is because Michigan was willing to give into the Irish when Notre Dame was to stubborn to compromise 50-50.

D) Notre Dame will probably have to "learn" to compromise for the Michigan vs Notre Dame series to be renewed, as it appears that Martin has a backbone.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.28.07 - 8:08 am | #

Bennie, go back to your GOBlue pages. You are one of the idiots I spoke of earlier. Quit putting everything on ND. It isnt ND's stubborness to do anything. Quit thinking that Michigan does no wrong and over the years look at the teams that these two schools have played. If you want to do that much research to prove your point either you are related to Bo in some way or have way too much time on your hands. Get a life and quit worrying about how Michigan and Notre Dame will be playing each other, if at all. Quit filling the blog with your endless rants. Typical Michigan fan, absolutely no class.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.28.07 - 8:57 am | #

Doug,
Can you debate the facts...

FACT #1 ND does not want USC and UofM to both be away games in the same year.

FACT #2 UofM does not want OSU, ND, and PSU to be away games in the same year.

FACT #3 When the current series was worked out, ND wouldn't budge and UofM for the sake of the series budged and gave in to 100% ND's way.

FACT #4 Now that it appears that Martin (UofM's AD) won't go along with 100% ND's way 100% of the time...ND fans are in a tizzy.

It is 100% on ND for being stubborn and arrogant if they can't do a 50-50 compromise. You can't deal with that fact and you are a typical arrogant and ignorant ND fan.
Bennie | Email | Homepage | 05.28.07 - 9:51 am | #

The only person in a tizzy is you Bennie. You've posted four of the last six comments and they have all been the exact same. The fact that the joke about playing in LA flew over your head is proof that you're not even bothering to read what is written here and just want to scream about how much you hate ND. Fine, we get it, you think ND is arrogant and stubborn and the cause of tooth decay. Super. Time to find something else to do with your time.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.28.07 - 10:11 am | #

Given this:
"FACT #1 ND does not want USC and UofM to both be away games in the same year.

FACT #2 UofM does not want OSU, ND, and PSU to be away games in the same year."

Then the problem is neither UM nor ND, both of whom are taking a reasonable position. The problem is OSU and PSU, and/or the Integer's scheduling.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 05.29.07 - 6:37 pm | #

we don't think it is reasonable to spend hundreds thousands dollars to buy a decorating watch. you can use those money to invest in other industry which will return you good profit.
here you just need to spend 100-200 dollars to buy a replica rolex watches.
Breguet replica watches are made by the rating 1:1 according to the original watches, and you can't distinguish the original and the fake watches when you look at the surface of the watches.
a replica rolex watches | Email | Homepage | 12.15.08 - 2:12 am | #

Cartier
TiaoZao | Email | Homepage | 03.17.09 - 6:48 am | #

tiffany rings
Dofus kamas
tiffany rings | Email | Homepage | 03.19.09 - 3:24 am | #

Personally, I liked the Tennessee and LSU battles of the nineties a lot, but would also like to play Miami and FSU to keep those rivalries going! rolex watch
luxury watch
luxury watches | Email | Homepage | 05.08.09 - 2:38 am | #

Kamagra jelly Kamagra
fdkk | Email | Homepage | 07.08.09 - 8:20 am | #