Strongly disagree with the kvetching over Charlie's challenge: (a) It was late in the half, and if we needed a TO, we still had one left. (b) There was a slight chance of taking 7 points off the board and making them settle for a try at 3, and in such a low-scoring game, that could be game-deciding. (c) Being upheld would have given ND a huge lift psychologically before halftime. (d) The defense had just been on the field for a long drive, so giving them extra time to rest, before possibly having to take the field again, was wise. (e) The offensive staff got more time to consider the upcoming possession. (f) In other words, it was a good place for a timeout, and one where we might get lucky and get some points into the bargain.
charliesluckycharms | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:02 am | #

The inability to run the ball will doom us for the rest of the season. How are we supposed to control the tempo of the game on offense or kill time on the clock when we can't run? Might as well use a spread offense and pass the ball 80% of the time.
bs0ng | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:12 am | #

...although castigated last year and this...I'll make similar observations...opposing quarterbacks pick on Terrell Lambert more than I do (for good reason)...Clausen still hasn't thrown the deep out and maybe can't...while Hughes is slow afoot and Armando Allen is faster than he is quicker...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:49 am | #

Barring drastic improvement in all three areas, it is patently clear Weis is not the man for the job. Any thoughts on potential replacements?
Vulcan Logic | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:56 am | #

It doesn't really matter what we say about Weis's job security. He has an enormous contract that the administration probably won't want to buy out. If Weis keeps losing in blowouts against top tier opponents like USC or miss bowl eligibility, things will get really ugly for him. Nevertheless, I would rather wait until the end of the season and see how everything plays out.
bs0ng | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:46 am | #

In CFB, if you can't run..you're done. Havn't seen a real running attack in a long long time. This is not the NFL, will someone please make the ND staff aware?
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 7:16 am | #

I do not understand why we cannot run the ball more effectively. Also, I am tired of just throwing the ball up and hoping one of our players catches it. To me, it seems like our passing game lacks any imagination.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 7:30 am | #

This is not a criticism, just a question for anyone who really knows football and the answer......How would Ringer (and McGuggie) do running behind the ND line?
jbarthel | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 7:46 am | #

Is this the end for Yeatman? Too bad, I really like the kid...and I really had the Indiana Excise Police although I personally was able to escape them a few times.

I don't think this is the end for Charlie, the team could have won the game. Once Jimmy realizes that Duval is not his friend, they will be better off.

I have seen comments about lesser schools being able to run (i.e., Boise State, et al) against the big boys. I am not sure if ND's failure at running the ball is Latina's fault or a problem with Weis' scheme.

While I do not suggest canning CW yet, didn't he promise us we would never lose to MSU again? I hate broken promises.
Boston Alum | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:11 am | #

To be fair, on the play review, I've seen little indisputable evidence that the review officials even understand the notion of needing indisputable video evidence to overturn a call. See also: Grimes' TD catch at Stanford. Hughes' "fumble" vs SDSU.
domer.mq | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:34 am | #

time for Yeatman to go. he got his 2nd chance and blew it. i'm sure FSU is looking for a TE.
Schultz | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:34 am | #

Well, the same old problem we experienced in '07 is still with us. Let's face it, we have a SHITTY offensive line. Walter Peyton couldn't run behind that bunch. And we're still not recruiting 5-stars in that area.

I am wondering if CW really understands the college game. If Lou really loves ND as much as he says he does, maybe ND should hire him as an "assistant" coach to tutor fat boy.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:59 am | #

Well, as another thought, I guess we'll have to recruit a new tight end next year. Or two.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:00 am | #

I think everyone needs to relax and get a level head. Last week, people were talking BCS bowl, this week they are calling for Charlie to be fired. Please get realistic expectations for 2008. This is a young team and 8-4 with a minor bowl game would be a major step forward for a major run in 2009. MSU was cetainly a game that I circled as a loss in the beginning of the year. I would have loved to have won and/or had them play better, but inconsistency is usually the hallmark of a young team.
Greg | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:15 am | #

From the bits and pieces of the game I managed to watch, Claussen cannot go through progressions with any kind of consistency. He locks on his primary receiver.

The running game spoke for itself. I have no idea how to fix it, but it's clearly broken.

This armchair coach thinks Weis needs to get over the "schematic advantage" thing and work on fundementals and execution. I forgot the link, but I read part of a Sarkasian(USC OC, sp?) seminar on offense. They have about 5 routes. He claims the passing offense can be installed in about 5 days.

I've said before, with the talent we have, ND should be able to give our playbook and signals to half our opponents and still be able to win. Don't see that on the field.

-Domer96
Domer96 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:17 am | #

Thanks for the U2 reference. Vintage.
irishru2 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:25 am | #

I had this team at 9-3 and they are on track for that now. Many of you had them at 8-4 and worse. What's the big outcry?
jbarthel | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:39 am | #

The outcry isn't in the loss, it is the manner in which the game was played. It is the 16 yards rushing, the kicker who can't put it past the 25 yard line after a momentum changing td, a qb who refuses to look past the first reciever, the refusal to stop letting AA touch the ball.

A lot of fans wouldn't be so worried if ND lost but managed to run the ball and have a competent offensive game. But as it is, Saturday looked to much like 2007 for many...
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:09 am | #

A couple of thoughts...week three:

Saturday's game highlighted every weakness that I saw in our play the past two games. Our reliance on the big bomb passes, the lack of vision by our running backs, sub-par play calling, the inexperience of Michael Floyd...etc. Mike made a lot of good insights so I will focus on a few things of my own.

1. The offense came out looking flat and were not helped by terrible play calling. Trying to establish the run is all well and good, but multiple times I saw our backs running into blockers completely missing holes. We definitely made some great offensive changes at the half. We took advantage of Michigan State's inability to cover the entire field...however Clausen's spotty ability to go through progressions and read the defense had him making passes that could have ended up going for big gains. His pass to Rudolph up the middle was the best all day in my opinion.

2. Michael Floyd is still a freshman. A number of times we ran a wide receiver screen to Paris, with Floyd there to block. He whiffed on every single one. True Floyd is somewhat physically bigger than Tate, but he was terrible holding a block.

3. Calling out an APB for Duval Kamara...

Kamara showed flashes of potential last year, but mental errors seemed to limit his effectiveness. This seems the trend again this year. This was supposed to be his "breakout" year, but so far it has been hit or miss. With no recorded receptions at Michigan state...

4.An APB for Brandon Walker's confidence...

I saw this kid hitting 55 yarders warming up before the game, he seems to have the ability this year, but his confidence has got to be shot. I can't imagine the pressure he experiences, or how one would build up his confidence, but we need some semblence of a kicking game to generate points if we are going to need the spread to move the ball.

5. I was generally pleased with the defense. Though the Michigan State offense did what they have the past few games, open up huge holes for Ringer to run through. The one 63 yard run was laughible. For those talking about being tired, the only person standing in the middle of the field was the middle linebacker. I think everyone knew at that point they were going to be running up the middle to just kill clock. Why not load up the box? Instead the Sam and Will backers lined up on the edges with the safety not really cheating up at all. I guess we thought it was going to be a pass? How does that make sense? Someone smarter than me please explain.

This is still a 7-5 team, which I think has a chance to win most if not all games the rest of the season except for USC. We will have to see what we come up with this Saturday against Purdue. Hopefully the boys can shake off a game where they shot themselves in the foot time and time again on offense and put together a complete game for the first time this year.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:18 am | #

I can't figure out what is going on with Kamara. Granted, the interception in the endzone would have been a tough play. But, when Tate bats down a ball away from 2 defenders that he had no business being able to, I just don't get what's going on. Maybe he'd make a better TE.
Josh | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:29 am | #

Someone answer this - why did we run play action fake on 3 and 15 in the 4th quarter after not running a single running play the whole quarter?

That's coaching.
Yago | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:37 am | #

Hate to say this but I agree with Corso, we got the talent so it must be the coaching. With that size how can't we run it blows my mind. I hate to blame a coach but look at the size of the line they are huge.
scd | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:44 am | #

I simply cannot remember the last time we could run the ball. Probably under Davie. I really just do not get it.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:50 am | #

We could rush the ball when Julius Jones was here. I can think of a few games that he basically won single-handedly (Washington St. in 2003).
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:58 am | #

Everyone seemed to call for 9-3-8-4 season, so this was one of the losses.Jimmy played poorly this week, and yet we were one catch away from having the lead at 14-13. The D was good, although they needed at least one more turnover. Brian Smith is fantastic.
Here are my complaints. Throw the damn ball on a rope, to someone moving at full speed. Everyone must remember the spectacular catch and run by Arnez Battle a few years ago. If we get the ball to Tate at full speed 3 times a game, he will score on 2 of them. He is every bit as good as Tim Brown.
We will have to pass to set up the run and not vice versa. I think they will realize that once and for all.
Always sad to make a final opinion on a nice kid, but Armando simply doesn't have it. No coincidence they kick to him and not to Tate. Time to try the freshman who is apparently looking so good in practice.
Finally, good news for this week. My son is going to the game and his record is about 15-1. He was at the UCLA game a couple of years ago and truly was not surprised when we pulled it out.
This is a week for legitimate criticism of some elements, but not overall. Redondo Jim- at least this week you were right about Lambert.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:58 am | #

My biggest regret is that Tate's miraculous scramble on 3rd and 18 didn't directly lead to an Irish win. Not because I rue the loss so much, but the crushing and possibly destabilizing effect on Spartan psychology would have been too wonderful to behold.
indy | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:14 am | #

No matter what, a team will have to have a some sort of sustained running game. Whether is is a drive late in the game to kill the clock, to get some 1st downs, or to set up the passing game. It is beyond my comprehension how bad the O-line played Saturday. Also I would not even think of kicking a FG when we are in range. I would just go for 1st downs. We can not get one kicker in this entire country to kick a FG? I am slowly getting the feeling this program is again mired in mediocrity. ND must rattle off some wins in a row to get some respectablity and some confidence. There is no one team on the rest of the schedule that ND can not beat (except USC). A win vs. Purdue is paramount.
azjimbo | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:19 am | #

"parallax errors"...

BGS 1, rest of blog world 0.
IndyTom | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:22 am | #

This was a game most of us expected to lose. We could have won it, if not for some stupid turnovers. It came down to the fourth quarter.

And we are flipping out? I understand the frustration at not being able to run the ball, but yeesh.
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:27 am | #

The Irish need to start using their TEs more like when Fasano and Carlson were here

Yes we lost, but really we were one turnover away from basically having a chance to win. Jimmy needs to be more patient on some of his throws into coverage and the run is very predictable when you pass so much.

Overall, tough loss and one we could have won. I think we will beat Purdue and Stanford, so all is not lost.
T-Mac | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:28 am | #

There's a reason why Carlson and Fasano are both playing on Sundays. None of our TE's are at that level yet. Plus, I don't know if either Carlson or Fasano were at that level until they were upper-classmen. While I do think we need to be able to have that weapon; in fact, I might go as far as saying that Weis's offense hinges on having an excellent TE as a safety valve, right now, I'd rather see one of our TE's blocking like Fasano or Carlson...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:33 am | #

Canuck-I think you are exactly right. Few things to add. (1)The offensive gameplan of throw a prayer up and hope someone comes down with it will not work. Our route schemes in 2005 were considerably better than they are now where it seems the only thing we do is run slants or deep flys. Why arent we crossing the field with posts and drags coming from opposite edges? Is it because Clausen cant read through his progression fast enough for this to work? (2)Our backs dont hit the holes fast enough. Our running plays take way to long to develop. We have talent in the backfield, we just arent using it properly. (3) Our defense has played well but we need to have a few more vicious hits a game. We tackle, we dont hit. Start putting QBs/RBs/WRs on the ground with bone-shattering hits and they will run more tentatively. I dont even care if we have 1 or 2 late hit penalties a game. Make the other team afraid that they are going to get nailed every play. Remember the Ndukwe hit on Calvin Johnson? (4)They need to get he ball to Floyd, Kumara, and Tate in ways that maximize their individual talents. There are more ways to get the ball to a WR than a toss-up play. It seems like we have three routes in our playbook. Hitch/Go (slants rarely). (5) I think Charlie calls a better offensive game than Haywood at this point. We are not as creative anymore. (It seems that we have been constantly battling to find a balance of creativity and effectiveness over the last 3 years with our playcalling)(6) Why dont we run more screens? (7) Again, I think the coaching staff needs to infuse a little more emotion with these guys. They are 18-22 yr olds who love collisions, violence, and destruction. That is not brought out in a "business" atmosphere that seems to encompass our team. Again, there is a balance that needs to be struck between execution/focus mentality and the emotion and fire necessary to win at the college level.
Adam | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:53 am | #

Nice thought provoking summary article by Mike. Now I'm going to have to rewatch the great 1970s political intrigue thriller 'The Parallax View', starring Warren Beatty. Yes, Warren Beatty, but it's still great.

Anyone with a video link of Golden Tate's Houdini impersonation in getting that third down conversion after taking a pass in the flat.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that Golden Tate is special. Maybe 'Golden Child' special.
If memory serves, Purdue was his breakout game last year. Here's hoping for a reprise.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:08 pm | #

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that Golden Tate is special. Maybe 'Golden Child' special.
If memory serves, Purdue was his breakout game last year.

It was.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:23 pm | #

Can somebody tell me how many championships did the great Holtz win? I was young at the time, but I can only recall him winning 1. ND had superior talent relative to most of their competition yet still lost to lesser teams. Why did ND not fire him?

Pete Carroll is another "great coach" with only 1 championship. Why hasn't USC fired him yet for losing games where he clearly has the more talented team?
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:28 pm | #

A couple posters above asked about the last time we had a rushing game. Seems to me Darius Walker went for 900+ yards as a freshman and then two consectutive 1000+ seasons. That's not too shabby in my book. I think we would all kill for a 1000 yard rusher. Is this offensive line so much worse than the years Walker was here? Darius was not a top tier rusher, but he managed three good seasons. Why can't this line produce? I don't get it. What is missing? Unfortunately, I am starting to come around to the argument that it has got to be the coaching. With that size across the line, you have to think you could get them to muster more than 16 yards rushing.

I saw the sight that makes me cringe and want to throw things at my TV - on one of the plays Jimmy got sacked, I saw Duncan dive at the feet of the MSU defender and the Spartan just side stepped and then tattooed Jimmy as Duncan was laying face down in the turf. If you are 6'6"+ and 300+, why do you dive at the feet hoping your guy stubbs his toe and falls over you? I never played offensive line so maybe I am not as well versed in the idiosyncracies of the position, but would someone with more knowledge than me explain why we did this all last year and now are seeing it so much this year?
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:43 pm | #

2003 great points. I just think some people are overreacting right now. We all knew how this year was going to go after last season. The one thing is though, those teams have/had been downright dominant at times, something we have not really seen of the irish in quite some time. If they can be 6-6 or 7-5, and win a bowl game I would put this season in the win column.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:44 pm | #

Go Irish,

It is possible that the play called was a screen or a quick slant to his side. By trying to take out the defenders feet that would prevent him from jumping up and getting in the passing lane. This is just a guess though?
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:46 pm | #

gwzimm: ND has two TE recruits with verbals for the next class...Tyler Eifert and Jake Golic.

I believe too many fans are calling for CW's head over one loss in a season that many predicted would end with the Irish at 7-5 or 8-4. Folks, it ain't over yet.

Try supporting this team which is made up of mostly 18-20 year old students.

GO IRISH!
tednict | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:47 pm | #

2003:

Lou Holtz was 100-30-2 with ND.

Pete Carroll's collegiate coaching record is currently 78-14.

Charlie Weis is 24-16. Some people might not consider your comparison warranted.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:47 pm | #

Also, I am sorry to say Yeatman should be gone. Regardless what action the University takes, Coach Weis should send a message and suspend him for the rest of the season - minimum - and possibly should even excuse him from the team for good. I was the first one to say his first offense was a stupid decision, but one he could learn from. We all drank and did stupid things in college. But he was given a chance to learn and move on and he put himself in another bad situation. Pretty stupid.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:53 pm | #

Matt, Thanks for your answer. That does seem plausible. It is just so irritating to see defenders stepping over prone linemen as easily as stepping over a puddle on their way to nailing the QB. It just seems to me if they are lying in the prone position it sort of negates your height and size. Preventing them from jumping does make sense, but it just seems we see it too much.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 12:56 pm | #

2003,

Holtz teams routinely averaged 30+ PPG on offense, 400+ yards/game. THey did not "take what the defense gives them", rather imposed their will on their opponent. They were physical. They were the one of the elite teams for a 6 year stretch. (88-93) They beat USC 9 straight years and would routinely win all the Big 10 games. After 88 he was expected to never lose. JSYK, Championships are not "won" in CFB, rather they are voted on, similar to a beauty pagent. (Despite what the TV hawkers say.) too bad you can't remember the Holtz era, you missed something special.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:00 pm | #

"You gotta cry without weeping... scream without raising your voice"

It seems like the fan base is becoming quite split once again about the coaching staff.

I can certainly understand why people want to defend Weis and want him to succeed, and it's true that he does seem to "get" ND, especially more than the last two guys in his job.

However, I think it's getting harder and harder to obey the growing mountain of evidence against his effectiveness as a collegiate head coach.

Most of the excuses for this latest loss seem to be some variation on the following themes:

- The team/Jimmy/the RBs/the OL/etc came out flat, and hey, it happens to even the best. This was our mulligan.
- Most of us thought we'd lose a few games this year and this is one of them.
- MSU is a good team, better than most thought.
- Our players are still young/inexperienced/learning/not executing properly. It's too early in the season to judge them.

Setting aside for the moment that these same things were said after the SDSU game, my question is this:

If we lose next week, at home, to Purdue, four games into the season -- will any of these hold true? Or, would that loss perhaps signal that these excuses don't really hold water any more?

Not trying to start any trouble; I'm just sincerely wondering what people think about this.
Curse of the Class of '98 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:01 pm | #

the loss to BC in 93? stopped the holtz train. if he would of won that, he would of won another NC and he would of stayed for years and churned out great season after season.
jose | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:07 pm | #

I really think they need to simplify the running game. It seems to me we are setting up all these zone blocks and what-not, and they just aren't working. Go back to old school, hat-on-a-hat run blocking, and shove your opponent 2-3 yards down the field.

I don't mind the loss all that much. We didn't play that good, and missed out on our opportunities to put points on the board. If we capitalized on our opportunities, we definitely could have won this game.

But the lack of a power running game, at NOTRE DAME, is just unforgiveable.

Its been four straight years of poor offensive line play at Notre Dame. At some point, Latina needs to be fired. I know the guy is supposed to be a great Oline coach, but I haven't seen ANYTHING by our offensive line in the past 3.5 years to be encouraged about.



Hire Latina, and hire Lou Holtz as Oline coach. He'd do it for free, and your damn sure these kids would start blocking.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:12 pm | #

Fire Latina.....sorry.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:12 pm | #

First, I'm not comparing Weis to Holtz or Carroll. I'm just pointing out a fact that they had superior talent and lost to lesser teams.

Second, is the point to win championships? I keep reading that the only thing that matters at ND is championships. Well, both Phil Fulmer and Lloyd Carr have as many championships as Holtz and Carroll. Did any of them take over as bad of a situation as Weis? The roster is still only at 78 scholarship players. Maybe those last 7 scholarships would be the key Senior leadership needed to avoid a letdown
a week after beating Michigan.

Third, a championship is won not by the dominating games where you look like you can beat anyone in the country but by being mature and experienced enough to know that every single play in every single game can make the difference.

If you really pay attention you will notice that even a dominating performance in any sport at any level usually hinges on a couple of key bounces. Well, the same is true of any championship season too. I think Charlie Weis understands this but it takes time to for 18-21 year old kids to realize.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:14 pm | #

Along with Latina, I would say get rid of Mendoza. Sure these guys put on bulk this past offseason, but where is the strength? Sam Young, at 6'8" and 330 pounds and Chris Stewart at 6'5" and 330 as well, should be blowing people up on the right side on a regular basis. Those are massive men and should be like bulldozers over there. Are they not as strong as they should be or is it just me?
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:16 pm | #

I don't understand how people can get so upset over a loss like this? Most everyone predicted us to finish somewhere between 7-5 and 9-3, even though we are more talented than all but USC. If we are more talented, yet will still lose 2-4 games, how exactly did people think it would happen? Were we expected to completely dominate, but make some horrendous mistakes that lose the game? I was expecting our losses to be like this one, where we are in an even game and the opposition makes less mistakes than we do. Without the turnovers, we could have won that game. That is what happens with a young team; they make stupid mistakes.

And to everyone complaining about Clausen, he is doing just fine. Remember, he spent all of last year running for his life. Once he trusts his line, which can only come from in-game experience, he will calm down. When Quinn was a sophomore, everyone complained, but he was being compared to Holiday and Battle. Clausen is being compared to Quinn. Let's cut the kid some slack and let him mature. As long as he continues to cut down on the number of stupid mistakes, he is making progress.
cjdomer04 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:21 pm | #

(1) Watching Walker warm up, two things stand out: He has the leg for a 60-yarder, but his placement is totally random, down the middle, wide left, or wide right. I've never been a kicker, but it seems to me that he might be able to take a little off the kicks for the sake of some directional control. There's no point putting 60 yards of leg into a 40-yarder. Put some finesse on that ball!

(2) In fact, Walker, maybe you could borrow some finesse from the O-line. They're trying to use it and shouldn't be. They should be flattening people and instead are trying to be cute.

(3)Geez, Yeatman! Abso-f-ing-lutely no sense! You did realize that getting caught like that would be the death knell to your sports career, definitely at ND, and maybe entirely...right?!?

(4) It's encouraging to lose a game that could've been won simply by committing fewer turnovers. Winnable bowl game, here we come!
Matt '09 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:30 pm | #

So, what's going through Konrad Reuland's head in 2 weeks, when Stanford loses to an ND team that is starting 2 freshmen tight ends?

Hard work is the only real pay-off in this world!
Matt '09 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:32 pm | #

16 yards. Think about it. Sixteen. The 2 creampuffs MSU played before ND ran for over 100 against them. It isn't just that we lost the game, it's how we lost.
Also, I find it hard to believe that an ND offense under Weis will ever surpass what it was under BQ. It takes years for a QB to reach the level of proficiency necessary to command that type of passing attack.
The lack of a running game is particularly concerning b/c while Weis' teams are learning the passing offense, we have nothing to hang our hat on in the meantime. Yes, we may reach a BCS game every few years, but we may se a lot of mediocre football while we wait for a Clausen, Crist to develop.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:32 pm | #

"First, I'm not comparing Weis to Holtz or Carroll. I'm just pointing out a fact that they had superior talent and lost to lesser teams."

Not too often, pal. Check out their records again.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:33 pm | #

"So, what's going through Konrad Reuland's head in 2 weeks, when Stanford loses to an ND team that is starting 2 freshmen tight ends?"

This ND team has not earned the right to be considered overwhelming favourites against anybody. Should Stanford win in two weeks, perhaps the word 'Booya!' will be running through Reuland's head.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:36 pm | #

"If you really pay attention you will notice that even a dominating performance in any sport at any level usually hinges on a couple of key bounces."

Nonsense. Sorry, man, but this is exactly the kind of thinking for which Michigan sore losers were being roasted last week on this very site! We just got some bounces. We coulda, shoulda, woulda won.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:39 pm | #

1) The QB is the most important part of Weis' offense.
2) It takes 2-3 years minimum for a QB to have a full command of this offense as seen with BQ, and currently with Clausen.
3) With no running game to rely on while the QB and passing attack develops, we will continue to see medicore football under Weis every 2-3 years unless he fixes the running game.
4) Making a BCS game every 3 years is simply not good enough at ND.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:40 pm | #

cjdomer04,

The Clausen excuses that you are making are the same that people made last year. I personally have yet to see him being comfortable running that offense. Golden Tate was a freshman last year too, but you could cleary see his progression and he has confidence in himself to gain yardage when there is nothing to work with. When the qb is not making the right quick reads, it is not fair for the whole entire offense, let alone the team. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:41 pm | #

Matt:
I totally agree. You are one sharp dude.
ronnie | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:41 pm | #

Not too often? Some would say that every loss for Carroll after 2002 was to a lesser team. And the same goes for Holtz after 1987 (maybe until 1994). How many games has Weis lost to an inferior team? MSU in 05. Nobody in 06. Navy in 07.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:43 pm | #

Nobody predicted the Irish to go undefeated this season, so stop getting so hot and bothered over a loss. It's one loss! "A lot of fans wouldn't be so worried if ND lost but managed to run the ball and have a competent offensive game"? What difference would it make? A loss is a loss, and even without a competent running game, it was still a close game in the 4th quarter. It appears that not every problem was fixed this offseason, and if you expected all of them to be fixed, then that's your own fault.

Only one complaint that I will make, and that is because I agree for the first time with Jim from Redondo Beach: Terrail Lambert, not so good.

Yeatman should be off the team. It's not even just that this was his second go-round; it's that he actually went to high schools to talk about his mistake (which I really respected at the time), and now this. No thanks.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:47 pm | #

2003,

Great, so we don't lose to the inferior team because we are the inferior team. Not a good place.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:47 pm | #

5) Note to CW: We are NOT Texas Tech!

2003: Quit living in the past. ND is inferior at this point in time.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:48 pm | #

i'm not gonna say what could've and should've happened saturday. enough comments have been posted.
but i did review the first half on my PVR and just focussed on the o-line blocks - or lack thereof. sam young is someone i specificaly keyed on. what is stopping him from crushing (!) the guy in front of him? not on every single play but on most.
i don't get it.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:51 pm | #

Anonymous, regarding the little things, I never said we should have won the MSU game. We made more mistakes then they did. Also, when I refer to the little things I am not talking about turnovers. To me, turnovers are big things. Little things are receivers carrying out routes/blocks, running backs not false starting, OL barely missing a block in the second level.

I have confidence because I see a team with great potential getting tripped up by a "little thing" here or a "little thing" there. I think these are things that will diminish with experience.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:52 pm | #

Even if all of our talent clicked perfectly next year, we would have to be extremely lucky to win a championship. I don't think that we should expect that. But what I see as a major difference between the Holtz years and the years of Davie/Willingham/Weis is the number of blowout losses we've suffered through. Saturday was not a blowout loss, but 16 yards rushing is a statistic that reminds us of our blowout losses of 2007. (Some talent) + PRIDE = battling your opponent on every play of the game. That kind of mental intensity should keep you from being blown out. I've said that a great progress marker would be keeping within two touchdowns of USC. If we could not do that with MSU...
flannercock | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:56 pm | #

2003, Let me know when a Pete Carroll team loses 38-0 or loses to an Academy.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 1:58 pm | #

2003:
You should change your name to 1988. It would invoke fonder memories for us all.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:01 pm | #

That's the first time I've ever seen someone actually write 'Davie/Willingham/Weis'. So sad, but not unjustified.

2003, a team that is held to 16 yards on the ground, against anybody, is not a team showing a great deal of potential. Though it grieves me to say it, It is a team in a great deal of trouble.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:02 pm | #

Gabby, I agree we are the inferior team. Definitely for all of 2007. This year, I see ND more as an equal team, but not yet superior. When teams are equal then it comes down to who makes mistakes. We made mistakes and we got beat.

Matt, I hope that I am missing your sarcasm because I think I am the last person living in the past. I'm not calling for a Joe Moore-style line coach or a Holtz-style game plan. I have never once referred to the glory years of 15-20 years ago when ND won a single championship.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:04 pm | #

People seem to be conflating Allen's trouble running the ball from scrimmage with his return performance, and that's really not fair to Armando. He's had a great punt return (a horse-collar tackle by the punter saved a TD) and a great kickoff return already this season. In fact, I think I saw something to the effect that the kickoff return was our longest since 2002. He's done nothing to indicate that he doesn't deserve his spot on the return teams.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:05 pm | #

Can someone please tell me where to buy the rose-colored glasses. I mean, when Michigan turns the ball over 6 times, it is because we Anello is agressive and the d was great, not because of Michigan's stupid mistakes.

ND turns it over to MSU, and it is our stupid mistakes and we would have won if and only if.


Does anyone actually think this team is capable of going out and burying a team like good teams do? Look at the scores of other teams.

Did anyone notice that San Jose State put up almost 300 yards rushing against San Diego State?

I guess the past dozen seasons of crushed hopes and mediocre football have me jaded...
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:09 pm | #

Red:
I totally agree. Did you or anyone watch the LSU-Auburn game? As much as we like to think our recruiting is catching us up to the big boys, the SEC is light years ahead of ND at this point in time. We simply do not pass the eyeball test.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:12 pm | #

2003
Glad to know you have a sense of humor.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:13 pm | #

the bottom line is that almost everybody saw this game on the schedule and had it circled as a loss. guess what? ND lost. cool. let's move on.

if they lose to a Purdue team that needed a miracle minute to beat Central Michigan at home or Stanford in South Bend, then i'll start worrying.

for now, in the grand scheme of things, Notre Dame is either one-under or par through three holes of the 2008 season.
Schultz | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:14 pm | #

RedMahoney:

I don't think it's so much rose-colored glasses, as it is some fans (probably because of last year) seem to panic more than other fans do. For the record, I do not think that this is a great, good, or even really above average team. But I didn't really expect it to be. I also think some perspective is in order. Not every good team looks good every week, and certainly a team that was 3-9 a season ago is not going to look good every week.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:18 pm | #

So let me get this straight: Weis takes over a program that nobody else besides Tom Clements would touch with a ten foot pole. He promptly turns Quinn into a Heisman candidate and takes ND to back-to-back BCS games. And let's not forget that Quinn wouldn't have even been a first-DAY draft choice let alone a first-rounder before Weis' arrival. He rebuilds a completely obliterated recruiting network and brings in top-tier talent. The team is showing signs of improvement everywhere except the running game. And now you want to say, "thank you Coach Weis for making us relevant again. Now leave." I guess I'm not that kind of person.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:21 pm | #

Great comments, all over the board and the range is comical.

I think we have Weis for years to come and I didn't see anything on Saturday that makes me call for his head (unlike last year). We looked like a young team making stupid mistakes. Heck we are basically a JV team with all the Fresh/Sophs we have on the field. I see progress this year and definite improvement everywhere accept the rushing attack. Don't blame the backs, or the line -- I think it's game plan and lack of committment to the run. When we rush is totally predictable. Every time we rush, we(and everyone else) know who's getting the ball, we have zero mis-direction, Clausen is zero threat.... BTW when no one is in the backfield we are throwing... again not too tough to figure out.
With an inability to blow folks off the ball we need some deception and no that's not a draw play. It's more reverses, two back sets, counters.. come on try something...

If we can't run, why not more dumps/slants underneath the linebackers?? Couldn't allen fill the role of wes welker?? We threw one slant on Saturday but need more..
MSU just loaded the cannons and came up the gut at us... it's just too easy...

Longer term it's time for Charlie to seriously focus on recruiting some 5 star lineman and not just load up on skill guys... changing backs isn't gonna help us.. we need some holes..I would love to see Hughes run behind SC's or OSU's line.. he would be a heisman contender I would guess.
jmc | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:25 pm | #

The only thing missing here at ND is a running game on a consistent basis.

Weis has done a fine job improving his staff and the O, the D, and special teams speaks for itself.

Stop being so hard on this team. Most of them are sophomores and it's not that big of a deal. ND is going in the right direction. State's D is pretty solid and they showed it on Saturday. We ran on Michigan, who has a good front 7.

Let's see what happens here.. Let Haywood figure the run game out and can we please stop trying to pound it up the middle vs superior D Lines.
T-Mac | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:30 pm | #

The comments regarding "recruiting 5-star linemen" are ridiculous for a couple reasons. First of all, Sam Young was all-world a couple years ago. Right now I'm not sure he could block my 97-year old grandmother without committing a personal foul.

Secondly, what is MSU's star rating across their o-line? I guarantee their linemen were not as highly recruited as ours and yet Ringer goes out and gets a hundred yards before he puts on his cleats.

The 'talent gap' argument doesn't work any more. Our line has the talent. It appears that they're lacking the coaching right now.

It's time for ND to just eliminate all pretense and throw the ball 50+ times/game.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:43 pm | #

"He promptly turns Quinn into a Heisman candidate..."

You don't suppose Brady had anything to do with this, do you?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:44 pm | #

Everyone needs to relax and just let the season unfold. Due to Weis' solid recruiting and success 2005-2006, he isn't going anywhere so don't even go there because it's a waste of time.

This team is very young offensively. All of the playmakers are Sophomores or Freshman mostly due to extremely poor recruiting in 2004 & 2005. Yes, ND has talent on the offense but they need experience.

Purdue has given up at least 130 yards rushing a game, so ND should run the ball better this time out. So until Saturday, everyone freaking out should take some Quaaludes and wash it down with some beer and chill.
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:45 pm | #

Okay, Butobi, just let me swing by Yeatman's place...
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:46 pm | #

You don't think Charlie recruits 5star linemen? Recruiting them and getting them to sign are two different things. I think one of the problems with us recruiting the 5stars is that they dont see improvement in the linemen we have now. We have some very good linemen in the freshman class and Weis has commitments from two of the best guards in the country next year. I don't question the abilities of the kids playing, I do question the ability of the coach.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:46 pm | #

"The team is showing signs of improvement everywhere except the running game."

That's a pretty big "except."

And bringing in top-tier HIGH SCHOOL talent doesn't mean a thing if you can't turn them into top-tier COLLEGE talent.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:47 pm | #

Perhaps the toughest area of inexperience on this team is with the OC. Hopefully he's a quick study.
Jack Burton | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 2:48 pm | #

Joe Subway, absolutely Quinn had something to do with it. He worked hard. But, realistically, he was not on the trajectory of a first day draft choice without Weis' tutelage.
2003 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:01 pm | #

I'll say that BQ improved much more between his Soph and Junior year than he did between his Frosh and Soph year. Maybe it's on BQ, but to insinuate that Weis didn't have a lot to do with that, especially given his previous pedigree with that other Brady, seems a bit disingenuous.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:02 pm | #

In terms of the discussion on rushing talent, over the weekend, Cierre Wood racked up 259 yards rushing in just three quarters. He was held out of the first quarter because he missed practice earlier in the week.

We should extend scholarship offers to all 5 of those linemen immediately and make a job offer to that O line coach!

I am just kidding, but really...
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:05 pm | #

I take your points, but it's hard not to notice that many people seem eager to hand virtually all the credit to Charlie Weis for the ascent of the Bradies, and that Charlie Weis is not above accepting it.

Anyway, that aside, can Coach Weis, or the people he assembles to work for him, effect a Bradyesque ascent in the performance of the this offensive line?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:10 pm | #

To be fair, the offensive line has already improved probably beyond what anyone expected. 3 sacks allowed versus 23 allowed at this time last year? I'll take it. Their performance is certainly not "good enough," (especially in the run game, obviously) but let's not forget that it could be a whole lot worse.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:26 pm | #

Could be raining.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:28 pm | #

Ok, I'll put it this way, until we start landing and developing lineman we need more creativity in our running game.. we got to have the most predictable offense in college football...
jmc | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:30 pm | #

First off...enough of these other Matt's giving me a bad name. :)

Successful line play does not depend upon five star recruiting. You need smart individuals to work in a team and be well conditioned. I think at two of those things are question marks.

If we go back to last week, I predicted this outcry to happen. The I told ya so doesn't make me look any smarter, because unfortunately I can't call the plays for the team. This is a true rebuilding year and what we should have experienced last year. Talking about whether Weis made BQ...doesn't seem to get us anywhere. I love all the commentary guys, it is going to be a bumpy season, but lets all try and stay level headed. Expecting national championships to just start falling from the sky like rain is a little naive, especially in the current BCS system. Weis came into a unique circumstance here at ND. If he were to go 7-5, 9-3, etc. the next few years I think I would be happy. Think about the recruiting situation when he came in. Who else could have sold ND at that point? Okay so people feel he isn't doing anything with the talent. We know he can, but it appears that he is better suited to refine talent than build it up. That is a skill learned to some extent. Am I a Charlie apologist? No, but just trying to look at the big picture and provide a little perspective. Now if we lose to Syracuse...(and when we were losing to SDSU) I will use some different language.
Matt B. | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 3:59 pm | #

Let's hope talented RBs like Cierre Wood don't start buying into "ND can't run block." Adrian Peterson would look amateur behind our line.
Phil | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 4:02 pm | #

My points:

1. Unfortunately, in terms of expectations, ND fans tend to be optimistic as well as believe the annual pre-season hype.

2. Taking BGS' preseason poll, the consensus was 7 wins, 1 loss, and four toss-ups. We have won two of the seven predicted wins and lost one of the toss-ups.

3. Last year was a freshmen team, this is a sophmore team. Other teams do win with freshman and sophomore starters, but more than likely have a heavy, experienced junior and senior contingent.

4. Part of CW's challenge is transform an athletic football player into one who plays the game. In Kamara's case, going for the ball as well as looking to see where it is.

5. We do miss Darrin Walls!

6. The running game to establish itself will take one or two more years.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 4:06 pm | #

Touching on Matt B.'s take, I agree. We need to chill out. Trust me, I'm about as nervous with fright and excitement as anyone before 3:30 every Saturday, but even I know this team is a FEW years away yet. There is so much negativity surrounding ND these days, the type of negativity that is manufactured by talking heads (Saunders, Corso, May)and fan sites.

People want ND to fail and want Weis to crash and burn. Remember that people. Stay positive and support the team we have. The players cannot think the country wants their coaches fired. It's difficult to prepare for games when you're wondering if your coaches will be around next year.
Phil | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 4:09 pm | #

I agree with the other half: Let's fire Weis.

Here are my top replacements:

1. Moses. Lead the Jews out of Israel between a parted Red Sea, has to be able to stir up the ground game.

2. Jesus. Raised from the dead, so he knows how to resurrect a program. Also would do well in the position of Martyr should ND not win a NC in his first 3 years.

3. Lou Holtz circa 1986. When the lisp seemed like the result of too much fire and not enough time to breathe it, instead of the result of a stroke.

4. Mark May. I already hate this man with ever fiber in my being, so at least I can yell and not feel guilty.

Another other suggestions to replace Charlie Weis would be welcomed.

P.S. Who is going to take this job? You're idiots.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:18 pm | #

Any other*
Mark | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:21 pm | #

Sam Young was a 5 star recruit, and I remember watching him choose ND over USC live on ESPN. And he hasn't been developed at all. He probably would a good chance at winning a malpractice lawsuit against Latina and Mendoza. When he graduates, he'll probably have the most consecutive starts in ND football history, and won't even be drafted by an NFL team. He moves with all the quickness of a glacier, he cannot pass block worth a damn, and his strength seems woefully inadequate. He'll be the world's largest pharmaceutical rep in 2 years.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:24 pm | #

Mark, not to be a stickler, but Moses led his people out of Egypt, and toward the promised land. Which sounds good right about now.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:26 pm | #

Someone above was looking for video of Tate's run. I was as well, and the only option I could find at this point is in an official video release here:

http://all-access.cbssports.com/...er.html? code=nd

Search for the Und.com Michigan State Tape Study.

You'll find a clip of Tate's catch and run and some Charlie comments about the play.
eamuscatuli | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:33 pm | #

Good catch Joe. Out of Israel? I have to stop reading so much Jimmy Carter.

When Charlie was in Spartan land: "Let my Jimmy throw."
mark | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:33 pm | #

The problem with this team is coaching. Lets face it, these players haven't developed quick enough.

Kumara along with other players are
pissed off that they
bought into CW's philosophy, but now realizes it was smoke n' mirrors. Hence the uninspired football.

The writing was on the wall after the San Diego game.

Someone needs to get on the phone with Skip Holtz.
true2nd | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:37 pm | #

why is lou holtz 5-6 and skip holtz is 6-5??? anybody have an answer for that??
jose | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 5:54 pm | #

I nominate Cam Cameron to replace Weis.
Jack Burton . . . Me! | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 6:09 pm | #

...yeatman, you moron
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 6:18 pm | #

While I didn't read all the comments yet, AZJimbo, yours is the best: "A win against Purdue is Paramount."

If ND starts 4-1, I think we'll all be ECSTATIC. Most of us figured we'd lose this one to MSU. The D is better, the offensive line is what it is (sucks) and the kicking game is truly offensive.

But, the defense is good enough and there IS enough talent on offense to beat alot of the teams on our schedule and a medicore Purdue team is 1 of them.

Beat Purdue, we get some confidence and I think beat Stanford pretty easily and at least have a chance to upset North Carolina.

Lose to Purdue, and we have a tough time beating Stanford and get rolled by NC.

BEAT PURDUE!
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 6:36 pm | #

Didn't know about the Yeatman incident until I saw some of the posts here and Googled it.

Why can't we pay off the South Bend cops like most big time college programs do?
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 6:38 pm | #

Lots of complaining about coaching and play calling. I am disappointed that ND can't run, and I don't know if it can be fixed. What I do know is that even when Lou was still around and the team could run--people were complaining about a lack of playmakers.

Well, Weis has brought guys in that can make plays. They just all happen to be young and make mistakes. But you play them anyway. That is the chance you take when your team is young. Minus the dumb mistakes people wouldn't be complaining about the play calling. That being said, Weis needs very much to figure out how to get a running game going. I hope he can do it.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 6:52 pm | #

Here are a few observations from the MSU game. MSU played man coverage the whole game, when Rudolph was in the slot he was covered by a linebacker, why not run Rudolph deep? Armando Allen dances too much. On one punt return he tried to juke a defender when he had a wall forming on the sideline. One running play he ran into his own man cutting inside when there was daylight to the outside. When will we run a skinny post with either Tate or Floyd? Parris is a good possession receiver and needs to see the field more. Can we or do we ever trap? Do we have a wheel route to a back coming out of the backfield? Why can every other team in the country screen but us? It does no good to have "read" running plays when the back doesnt read. Are delayed handoffs all we have, no quick hitting dive type plays? Do we ever blast? Why is Terrail Lambert still starting? Will we ever get a sack? Do we have to kick the ball off the tee or can we punt the kickoff? Maybe we should try drop kicking field goals.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 7:39 pm | #

I think we look great, I'm really quite satisfied with the way the team is playing and see only minor room for improvement. Sure, I'd like to see maybe 20, or 25 yards, rushing in a game, but that's correctable. We are an emerging mid-west based force for goodness to be reckoned with by evil-doers everywhere. Mark my words ....
Five Iron Frenzy | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:15 pm | #

Ah, Voice, this really pains me. For a year and half I have been trying to get you to think and understand what the hell is going on with the offense. A few months back I thought you had it figured it out. No such luck. You are still on the "fire Mendoza and Latina" trip despite the fact that Pat pointed out that even the competition gives Latina full marks for being on of the best in the business. I'm going to try one more time, just once, I promise.

Mendoza teaches strength. He does what the Head Coach tells him to do. Charlie changed his approach this year and Mendoza did EXACTLY what Weis told him to do. Weis was thrilled before the season started. The OL guys are monsterous and powerful; 600 lb squats are HUGE weights. You don't need more. Weis got what he wanted.

Charlie got half smart and realized that his guy Brown wasn't ready for prime time and got Tenuta. Whoever thinks Brown is running the D is a moron. Tenuta runs the show and CW stays the hell out of the way. The D is vastly improved as are the individuals. Bully for Charlie.

Charlie is a pro coordinator. His offense is hardly suited for college ball. He has not a clue about the running game and when you go one dimentional, his highly complex passing game falls apart with young receivers, a crappy receivers' coach (but a great recruiting coordinator) a soph QB who DOES NOT HAVE A QB COACH for this level Charlie having fired one of the best in the business (perhaps, as it turns out for some reason) and constant failures in game management which appear every week. Two years ago, someone asked the Poodle whether he was concerned about Weis' offense: "Why," said he, "he'll run what he always ran and I've seen it before." The Poodle has Charlie down cold. And now, everybody else is figuring it out Note the results.

As for Saturday, a few points:
1. JC was sacked 3 times: a really good twist between the right DT and DE that our guys missed (Olson or the center, can't really know; a great speed rush that beat Turk and another speed rush that beat the TE. They were in Max Protection; the TE was NOT in the pattern; the TE was a Freshman who CANNOT BLOCK. Tell me Voice, what moron had him in on that play? Personnel on the field is a Head Coach call.
2. JC was often hurried. When you don't/can't run the ball, do you find that surprising?
3. We have no running back that could start for any...well...ALMOST any of our opponants. Hughes is too slow, Aldridge has never recovered from his high school knee and good ol' #5 has no vision, no feel and may be fast but not quick. I hate to say it, but I don't think he has much of a heart either.
4. Our fullback at 260 lbs has never gotten, in 4 years, better than a stand-off on any block. He should be killing people. Strong, not tough, and he has little else to offer.
5. O-Line spacing begins and ends at about 18 inches. 300 lb guys pushing straigh on 300 lb guys doesn't creat spacing. Not Latina, Charlie.
6. One back works with no spacing if you have Ladanian Tomilson (sp?) He hasn't shown up yet.
7. If you watch the film of the last 3 games we have pulled an O-lineman 5 times by my count (Moo U pulled #73 into that LT hole at least a dozen times).
8. There is no misdirection...hard to do with one back or with two backs one of whom never carries the ball.
9. On the "stretch," JC NEVER fakes a hand-off and runs what we used to call a "waggle" despite the fact that the kid can throw well on the run. The D knows EXACTLY where the play is going and unless one has the afor-mentioned LT, it aint going nowhere.
10. Now, as for the much recruited #74; as a tackle, he stinks, poor kid. Mistake in recruiting. I have told you for 3 years he has NO FEET. On Saturday, in attempting to move his feet he fell on his ass. He is also a wuss. Sorry, he shouldn't be playing whereas Turk, has done very well for a first time Left Tackle. Thank you coach Latina.

Voice, I could go on and on. The problem is not Latina or Mendoza, so get off of them will you? The problem is Weis who is still in way over his head as a college head coach. He's smart and he may learn the other half...I said he would. Let's hope so. As an aside, what kind of respect does an ego-centeric jerk get when he out-weighs every player on the team and has yet to learn how to coach? Then again, keep in mind we had a coach who won a championship in 1977 who wasn't much of a head coach either. Running up to an assistant that year, bitching and moaning about some obscure event, he was politely told to, "Get the f*&^ away, I'm trying to win a football game." He was smart enough to do so. The rest is history.
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 8:25 pm | #

Yep-fire Weis. While you are at it--fire Beamer, fire Ferentz, fire Schiano, fire Fulmer, fire Tuberville, fire both Bowdens, fire Willingham and now let's put a tight leash on Tressel!!
pangborn1977 | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:10 pm | #

Domerplayer, My disdain for Latina and Mendoza's job performance in no way excuses CW. I think he may be possibly the worst head coach that we have ever had.
So Charlie tells Mendoza what he wants? Strength coaches are hired based on what they bring to the table as far as philosphy, past successes, who they've worked under, what they know, etc. Charlie Weis doesn't know a dumbbell from a jump rope. And a 600 pound squat, while impressive, is not that rare among 20 year old college linemen. That they can't bend their knees, fire out hard and low, maintain their blocks, and then finish their blocks is a real big problem. All of our competition says Latina is great? They're lying. Latina is, week after week, our opponent's 12th Man!! Maybe he used to be good, but his lines have pretty much sucked for 4 years, and I say I've seen enough.
I don't know who you are or when you played, but if you think our O line is well coached and plays strong, then you and I will just have to agree to disagree. My bottom line is this: Charlie and the whole sorry staff is a huge disappointment. Losses I can stomach. But I never see improvement on the most important aspect of our offense: the line.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:23 pm | #

Voice:
Charlie Weis is the worst head coach in ND history? How dare you insult Brennan, Kuharich, Devore , Faust, Davie and Wilingham. Get real. Weis goes to two BCS bowls in his first two years. TW recruited TWO OLs in two years. What coach at any school is going to be able to work with that dearth of talent and depth and win 8-10 games. Name one. We are waiting!!
Annon | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 9:46 pm | #

Blood is running in the streets. It's making us stronger. Bring on the enemies.
indy | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:30 pm | #

Annon, I take back my "worst ever" comment, but I do think Weis fits in quite nicely with the list you kindly and accurately compiled. Dearth of talent?!!
That dearth of talent included Quinn, Samadzija, Zibby, Laws, Fasano, Carlson, Walker, Stovall, Ndukwe, Landri, McKnight, Sullivan, Harris. All are playing on Sunday. I look at today's team and I don't see a dozen future pros. Highly rated high school players who are going undeveloped? I see about 80 of them.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:30 pm | #

For what it's worth, I thought that the SDSU game was like watching paint dry. Not just frustrating as an ND fan, but flat-out boring. Using that low bar, the MSU game was much better. I think that Jimmy looks good at this point, and Golden is golden for sure, but my favorite is Bruton. I thought that ND's defense on the big Ringer run took a gamble that the play was going to the right. Even with that error, Bruton looked almost effortless in catching up to Ringer. He's the real deal.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:43 pm | #

The dearth of talent also included Abiamiri and Santucci.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:44 pm | #

I might also add that Dantonio makes MSU harder for me to dislike. He has a hard-nosed approach that will be interesting to juxtapose with Rodriguez at UM in the coming seasons.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:46 pm | #

Okay, since the thread is coaching, the one thing I wondered on Saturday was whether ND talked with Paul Johnson in the Willingham aftermath. It was hard to miss that his Tech team put up 430-plus running yards on an SEC defense. I don't know what I would have thought about hiring him at the time, but it sure looks like he knows how to coach.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 10:48 pm | #

A sober tight end who could block would be nice for Tight End U.
Doc Possum | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:07 pm | #

It's premature to say anything about firing Weis ... yet. He himself said 6-6 is unacceptable. if the team goes 8-4 this year (that's my criteria) then he gets another chance. However, if they shit the bed and go 5-7, 6-6, he should be fired.

I, like a lot of people, was on the band-wagon in '05. I'm still on but I have one leg over the side.

As several have pointed out, losses are one thing, but the complete lack of improvement in certain areas of the ballclub, particularly in the OLine is absolutely unacceptable whatever the reason- Weis, Latina, Mendoza, Jesus, The Easter Bunny- unacceptable.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 09.22.08 - 11:38 pm | #

Voice, you just aren't thinking. The scheme is wrong...wrong scheme and the line can never be good. Latina cannot make it so. We will never have a running attack with this play book. The guy has never had a concept nor a committment to running the football. These are kids, his book doesn't work. But I said I would try one more time. I failed. Let us disagree

Pangborn 1977. I want the guy to succeed I don't want him fired. From where in the hell you got that, I have no idea. But right now he's not up to this job. He is smart, aggressive and knowledgeable, but his ego can take him in one of two directions: either he can actually continue to believe that he has a "signaficant schiematic advantage" or he can choose to learn. He made some strides this year...he must continue to recognize that there are a hell of a lot of people as smart (or smarter) than he is in regard to this wonderful game we call college football.

By the by, I am very afraid about this week's match-up. Hope I am wrong
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 12:12 am | #

Ty Willingham ruined this Notre Dame team. His lack of recruiting efforts when he knew his job was in jeopardy, is showing right now. Charlie is doing the best with what he has, but he really needs to bring the passion of fun back to this offense. To me, Defense still looks slow. A lot of the blitz packages take way to long to develop any results. And thirdly, when did Notre Dames offense purely rely on fade routes?!?! Jimmy needs to fire the ball in a slant routes and quit playing the jump ball!!
BP55 | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 12:12 am | #

In all honesty, if we saw the type of O-Line improvement that most of you wanted to see this year (basically no sacks and 200+ yards rushing per game) who would we lose to? Most of you predicted somewhere between 7-5 and 9-3. So, in my opinion, it doesn't seem like your expectation for the O-Line gibes with your expectation for the team.
And from what I can tell, we have seen O-Line improvement because Jimmy doesn't have permanent grass stains on his ass this year. I never played football, so maybe someone can educate me, but over the course of a year, is it possible to improve pass protection and rushing attack dramatically? Further, given the option of having one or the other, which is more important? Looking at where our strength lies, it would seem that pass protection is more important. Perhaps I am way off though...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 12:12 am | #

Domerplayer, two comments. First, you said of Allen, "I hate to say it, but I don't think he has much of a heart either." That's grossly unfair to Allen, whose biggest problem is that he runs toward and not away from contact. How can you say he has no heart after the hit he took vs. SDSU? I think he's getting too many carries given his production, but I will never question the guy's heart.

Also, regarding Schwapp, you said, "4. Our fullback at 260 lbs has never gotten, in 4 years, better than a stand-off on any block. He should be killing people. Strong, not tough, and he has little else to offer." I haven't been watching him closely myself, but all accounts I've seen say that he's improved to the point where he usually blocks competently.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 12:37 am | #

VIW,
You know I respect your opinions,as I do Domerplayer. You said something in your post about players who are now in the NFL. Weis was 19-6 with those players and two BCS games. I see skilled players developing, I see defensive players developing but I dont see OLine players developing. Maybe it is scheme maybe it is coaching, whatever the reason there is no development.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 6:55 am | #

Yeatman is also charged with false informing and resisting arrest.
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 10:03 am | #

Ya'll are starting to sound like Red Sox/Yankee fans...

Peace I am out.
Matt B. | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 10:25 am | #

Point taken Wednesday, I was probably too harsh on Allen.

I disagree with Doug's views on development. Weis started with nothing...thank you Ty. Turk has made great strides. Olsen is a big, tough kid. Stewart has worked his butt off and Wenger is better than competent(although he had his thumb up his bum and his mind in neutral on the twist move on Saturday). Poor Young is hopeless. Their pass blocking is vastly improved, but if you throw the ball all the time someone is going to get to the QB.

You get two hours a day to practice. You can't be great at run blocking and pass protection. So one has to decide; what kind of team do you want to be? To run takes the kind of dedication to the idea that Moo U showed on Saturday. It's hard and one has to be firmly committed. But with Charlie's offense you will NEVER run the football with college kids learning the fundamentals unless you have an once-in-a-lifetime running back. We don't and unless Charlie changes his scheme to at least give the kids a chance, start worrying about young Mr. Wood for next year--if we really think he's that kind of back. Of course, if we can't run at all, we probably will not be able to pass as well.

This offense is a lot of, "Oh, that didn't work, let's try this." I see no progression whatsoever in play calling. I hear a lot of, "Well, this would have worked if everybody carried out their assignment." If success depends on 11 19/20 year old kids always carrying out their assignments, you have the wrong play book in the wrong league. The success of USC is a direct result of simplicity. Good athletes executing a relative simple scheme on offense at a speed we simply do not approach.
We are slow and I think one of the reasons is we must be perfect and therefore think before we do. I think Tenuta/Brown have their kids moving towards the "play fast" goal whereas out offense remains plodding.

As for Schwapp, Competent aint enough. 260 pounds with a five yard head start should result in body parts all over the field. He should be feared. He isn't.
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 11:08 am | #

I am in agreement that Allen doesn't have "it" Do you all remember that he didn't play as a senior because of an injury. I wanted him to be a "Rocket" but it simply isn't there.
As to Sam Young, I agree he too doesn't have it, although he is improved this year. This is the reality of recruiting(much like NFL drafting) Only about 1 in 3 is as good as expected, and conversely, the powers that be miss the Romos, Grants, and Bradys because the Chris Perrys, Matt leinherts,look shinier.
Remember, neither Montana nor my classmate Tom Clements were expected to be automatic starters, let alone big stars. That is what we are missing. Anello comes out and outplays 4.4 guys on full scholarship and earns a job. We need a couple of guys to rise up and win jobs. Who the hell was Samardjia after his soph season!
My point is that you are doomed if you recruit a hs all american and assume he is the only answer needed.
As always, I remain optimistic, and as icing on the cake, we should get to watch our boy Brady play this week.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 11:56 am | #

Regarding Armando Allen, he is great example of a good running back not being used properly. They make him run in the middle. He is not that type of back. He is the Reggie Bush, Joe mcknight type of back that runs outside or are good in the open. weis/haywood need to design play for him that fits his running style. Robert and aldridge can run in the middle but there have to be open holes for them to run. As for Sam young he does too many hold penalties he needs to be benched for a game or two so he can learn. Alot of people here have been talking about Duval kamara not fighting for the ball in the end zone, what else was he supposed to do? He had two defenders on him, by the way one stipping the ball out of his hand. That was on Jimmy, that ball should never been thrown there period. Most defense have seen that play for a little while now, it was very predictable. It is time to face it Jimmy does make costly mistakes, I agree with his accuracy but he does take to long to release or hand the ball. I hope this improve for him this upcoming game. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 12:45 pm | #

Can we please get the legal drinking age back to eighteen for crying out loud? It would give the police the opportunity to actually fight crime and not bust adult college students for drinking beer. It is just so absurd. I'm not condoning Yeatman's DUI. That was obviously wrong and if it was me I'd be like, "okay, I can't drink while I'm playing college football because I don't want my career to end." However, it's just ridiculous that people have to go through all this nonsense with tip-toeing around the cops and getting fake I.D.'s to socialize with their friends. I don't even drink alcohol myself but I can't get over the foolishness of the 21 year-old drinking age. Wanna' get married at 18? Sure. How about vote? Check. Join the army and fight for America? You can do that, too. Have some beers? NO! YOU CAN'T LEGALLY DO THAT!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 1:28 pm | #

Domerplayer,

I too agree to disagree. I haven't seen the improvement on cut blocks and there is still no drive off of the ball. Granted the pass protection has gotten better, it could not have gotten any worse. MSU against the run has been good this year so this next game will tell how well we run block. Jean, the hand-offs are designed that way we dont run any quick hitting dive type plays. Kumara has to learn to fight for the ball, I was at the game and didnt see any replays and was at the opposite end of the field, but a few people told me that Wiley outfought him for the ball. If a receiver can't make the catch then he has to become a defensive back and make sure it doesnt get intercepted. Allen doesnt outrun anyone and doesnt have the vision of a Reggie Bush.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 1:31 pm | #

Guys, great discussion on the OLine.

DomerPlayer, you made a great point about the line splits. When I think about spread teams that have been able to run the ball well over the past 5-10 years (Northwestern and Boise State come to mind), my mind's eye is telling me that their splits are more like 3 feet vs 18 inches (regardless of the exact measures, they are MUCH wider than ours). Wider splits tend to create natural holes (of course, occasionally, they'll get your RB killed by a big athletic DT), but for a passing team like ours (let's not fool ourselves and that includes you CW; we are a or should be a pass first team), wider splits WOULD help.

I also agree with DP on the fact you can't be good at both and I agree with NavyJoe that the OLine is better than last year at pass blocking since Clausen isn't getting murdered every game.

BUT, I do believe for our offense, we should have excellent pass blocking skills and at least average run-blocking skills. We unfortunately are only good at PB and horrendous at RB.

To me, pass-blocking is tougher and requires technique and feet (to borrow one of DP's statements). While there's obviously technique involved with run-blocking (if your the LT and there's a sweep, get your head/shoulders to the outside of the DE and turn him in), to me run blocking is primarily about NASTINESS. NASTY, TOUGH, I'M GOING TO KICK YOUR F*CKING A$$ ON EVERY PLAY ALL DAY AND NOT LET UP ...

... but our OLine COMPLETELY LACKS that nastiness that CW spoke about when he came here. I'm seeing some of it on the defense, but NONE on the OLine.

All in all, I'd love to see some wider splits and some NASTINESS.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 1:51 pm | #

Fighting Binny:

While I 100% agree with you about the absurdity of the drinking age (and I also don't drink), the bottom line is that the law is the law and everyone who is underage and chooses to drink knows that they are disobeying the law. So I'm not going to get angry at law enforcement over this, but the players. I get what you're saying, but when stuff like this happens and people start yelling at law enforcement for doing their damn jobs it really irritates me. How about we blame the people who knew they were doing wrong and did it anyways.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 2:19 pm | #

Fighting Binny, again:

Also, I realize that you weren't actually one of the people who was yelling at the police for doing this, so that part of my comment wasn't really directed at you. Just wanted to make sure that was clear.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 2:24 pm | #

Doug,

I wasn't at the game this time but I was watching on TV. I wish you could have seen the replay, this time it wasn't kamara's fault. As far as Armando Allen goes, he does have speed, but he is never in the open space, Reggie Bush always used to run on the outside. I am pretty sure last week, I saw flashes of Allen speed when he was running on the outside. Ever since Charlie weis came I have yet to see him win a game based on running games, which tells me he doesn't believe in it. I am hoping we run next week. For those who are saying that the first half game plan wasn't right I am telling you, we have had worse where we go at half 21-0 and going at half time with 3-0 was a relief for me. On the side note why isn't Paris getting playing time?. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 2:35 pm | #

How many fatal shootings are there in SB a year? How many crack houses? It is ashame that the police choose to pick on the students. The students and university keep that local economy afloat. But don't ask me why Yeatman and Golic were celebrating after the MSU loss!

On the postive side - boy Brian Smith is good. I think he was a 3 star recruit that ND almost didn't offer.

On the negative side - has Kerry Neal disappeared? I thought he was the better of the two last year.

LET'S GO IRISH! I would love to bash Tiller's head against the world's largest drum. http://www.purdue.edu/bands/aamb...s/aamb/ bbd.html
Boston Alum | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 2:37 pm | #

brian smith wanted to come to nd in the worst way, but was not offered a scholly until late in the process. he originally committed to iowa.

as far as the drinking age goes, let's also add to binny's list that on your eighteenth birthday you can walk into your parents house, say "i'm out, nothing you can do about it, have a nice life". so legally the law says you're an adult right there.
yz | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 3:48 pm | #

Domerplayer

I more or less understand your position on the O schemes. I am a bit confused about your statement about CW's commitment(or lack of) to the run game. When CW was at NE, they did not have the best runners or running game, but they were not dreadful like the Irish have been these last 2 years and I even think the last 4 years.

I think that one of the reasons ND looked so good the first 2 years of the Weis reign is Darius Walker. He was not that fast but he could find the miniscule holes the O line created. He could also cathc the dump passes when Quinn was being pressured. The backs we have today cannot hit those tiny cracks. It seems to me that the holes are just as big or just as small as before. The O line has not produced since Charlie has been here.

Why did his schemes work at NE and not at ND?
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 10:20 pm | #