thanks for the link. kind of a 'meh' article.
pvr'd the game. what's up with the poses the ND recruits struck after delaring "we are the fighting irish"?
odd.
anybody know why 'teo or jenkins weren't there?
that william campbell commitment must have sent michigan fans delirious. the guy seems like he's a stud (and maybe just a little too confident in his own abilities too). best of luck to him - except on saturdays he's playing against ND.
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 2:53 pm | #

Te'o and Jenkins attended the Under Armour hype-bowl last night.
Yago | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 3:06 pm | #

ahhh. thnx.
didn't get access to that up here in canucksistan.
let me guess: lots of egos, so-so football.
last comment: anybody see the one commitment where buddy grabs a miami hat, holds it for a second, and then throws it aside and dons the florida hat?
and then you hear someone in the background, presumably from the 'u', say "he yanked us, did you see that!".
priceless moment.
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 3:13 pm | #

What player is gone? Is this in reference to Yeatman, or someone else?
OderName | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 5:33 pm | #

I was wondering the same thing.
What player is gone?

That was a good post.
Cant wait for next year.
Mexican Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 5:40 pm | #

Heh, Mexican.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 5:55 pm | #

Gary Gray
jeff | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 6:36 pm | #

No, Gray is returning. I was referring to Yeatman, who's off to Maryland.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 6:47 pm | #

Any thoughts on new assistants? Who else hits the bricks? Predictions for next year? One fearless prediction: CW must win MSU. Without a win in that game I can't see how he'll be retained.
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 10:45 pm | #

Maryland, Jay? I guess that means Yeatman cleared up the lacrosse issue.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 9:58 am | #

Looking at the schedule for next year...

The only true must win game is against Zach Fraizer and the UConn Huskies ...
DieselKnight | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 10:08 am | #

valpodoc-

i'd argue there are about 10 must-win games on next year's schedule, including MSU. as bad as ND looked against USC this year (and the previous two years), if Charlie loses to the Trojans again next year (at home, with two weeks to prepare, with a supposedly stocked roster), i'd have no confidence in his ability to ever beat our biggest rival. 0-5 against USC is unacceptable.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 10:27 am | #

kmf,

i'd agree that there are oodles of must wins on the schedule next year (10 sounds right), but i think we need to lower our expectations slightly as ND fans. I would love to beat SC, and i think we must start playing them tough again, but they are consistently one of the best in the country right now, with plenty of players who have the talent, have grown up underneath talent and experience, and who have personally seen how to win. The winning culture hasn't been around ND (truly) since the early 90's when most of our players were still reading the Bearenstein Bears.

I'm not saying we shouldn't expect greatness and demand excellence, but to say that 0-5 against USC is unacceptable is just irrational. If every year the matchup was #1 versus #2 and we lost every year then fine, but we haven't had the talent, and USC has had the best. Let's beat everyone we're supposed to, and maybe a team that's over our heads, but to say that a loss to USC is indefensible is overstepping a bit imo. Only losing 35-0 would be.

Maybe i'm just too young to remember the good ole days (i was 5 when we last finished #1), but as much as we hate to admit it, you can't live through Davie and Willingham for 8 years and expect to be USC/Florida, etc... all of a sudden. But the talent is back, so at minimum we need to start winning like the OSU's of the world.

But don't misunderstand me, We WILL be back... i just think a little patience is in order.
guyritz | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 11:31 am | #

"must win" in what context?

For Charlie to regain my tolerance, they must finish 10-2 or better. I don't really care which games they are, but I'm spotting him USC and one screw up.

For Charlie to regain my support, they must win 11 and show up for the BCS bowl game (if 11-1 on that joke of a schedule is enough to qualify that is).

Sadly, I think 9-3 would be enough for Charlie to keep his job. Kids today think 'return to glory' is cracking the AP25 "others receiving votes".
obediah | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 11:35 am | #

Well, I'm glad Yetman is gone. He's got some issues to resolve. We have a good TE in Rudolph. All the best at Maryland, William.

I still think Weis will wait until after signing day to announce his changes. Then he can get his knee fixed heal up and move on. Who he hires I'm not sure, but I imagine it'll be well thought out because his a$$ is on the line.
NOEL | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 11:41 am | #

well said @ guyritz.

Although none of us like to say it out loud, ND is not the football powerhouse it once was. God willing, it will again very soon... In the meantime we need to come to grips what the program has been for the last 15 years, and adjust our expectations accordingly.
jezza | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 11:58 am | #

guyritz-

do you think oregon state has more talent than ND? or stanford? both have beaten USC in recent years, and plenty of teams with talent far below ND's have at least been competitive with the Trojans.

problem is, I feel like we already have adjusted our expectations accordingly. we went to the hawaii bowl this year, and many of us were happy with a bowl win against a mediocre team. that's sad.

i'm tired of watching teams like Utah (with FAR less talent than ND) go out and beat teams that I know ND would have no chance against.

i guess what i'm saying is...why NOT ND? why can't ND win the games that they're "not supposed to"? and more importantly, why does ND have so many games that they're not supposed to win?
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 1:09 pm | #

This is probably oversimplifying things, but ND is one of USC's biggest rivals. In spite of recent games, of course. ;-) I don't know that USC gets as fired up to play against Stanford, Oregon State, etc., as they do for us.
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 1:17 pm | #

I absolutely agree with kmf... I was posting on this board that although I was relieved we beat Hawai'i badly, I wasn't happy. We should have been playing in a bigger and better bowl against bigger and better teams. I am expecting a lot this year and will not lower my expectations at all.
Kyle | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 1:18 pm | #

Dave-
I agree that USC probably gets more fired up to play against ND than the Stanfords and Oregon States of the world. But shouldn't ND get fired up to play USC? If we had at least been competitive against USC the past couple years, I'd have more hope that things were moving in the right direction. 90-something yards of total offense and a team that was sleepwalking not only doesn't inspire hope, it confirms my suspicions in the coaching staff and/or players.

Not sure where all this is coming from (aside from my obvious aversion to doing actual work) but I guess I'm just curious as to the mindset of die-hard ND fans. Sounds like I'm hearing more complacency than I expected. Maybe I'm in the minority in expecting more--A LOT MORE--from ND football.

And don't take my criticisms as me hoping for Weis' failure. I want him to succeed as much (if not more) than anyone. Unfortunately, I'm lacking the evidence that shows substantial progress.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 1:32 pm | #

kmf is spot on in what he posts here.

We are the 'France Light' of college football; we love proving that we are the game's premier historians, though.

There was a time not long ago when getting the #2-rated OL-man was reason for rabid anticipation, visualizing the guy's highlight reel, and knowing that, barring injury, he'd one day work on Sundays. Then came High School football's all-time top-rated OL-man to du Lac. After he leaves, Sam Young can only hope for taxi-squad work.

Someone mentioned UConn as being a must-win game for us next year. Don't even think of it. The Huskies were perhaps a decade behind us 3 or 4 years ago. In that short time, they've not only surpassed us, but have come to establish a program that we can only dream of having. How sad. Worse yet, how true.

We'll keep flopping around like a dying fish out of water. We have all the appropriate arrogance and swagger of "Weis-guys." Hopefully young Mr. Wood be properly compensated for all the s**t he's had to endure.
NDNE | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 1:57 pm | #

"But shouldn't ND get fired up to play USC?"

I think they do get fired up to play USC, sadly...they're just not anywhere near good enough. USC's losses to Stanford, UCLA, Oregon State came in situations where USC didn't seem to care and their opponents were fired up. Difference in the Notre Dame series is (at least the way I see it), USC does get fired up to play ND and no motivational trick in the world is enough to overcome that.

I expect a competitive game with USC next season. Not because anything that's happened in Charlie's tenure so far has led me to expect that, but because it's Year 5 and he damn well better be able to compete. But I don't think we can forget that USC is the most talented team in the nation either and it's almost impossible to beat them when their minds are right.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 2:01 pm | #

kmf,
Everyone gets fired up to play ND, Teams want to beat ND because of the great history of the program. I agree with you, if ND came out every game like they did against MU (this year)the team might have had more of a fight with USC and others. With the talent that has been coming into ND I am expecting the level to be increased where we can beat OSU, Texas, USC etc.. Now that we have talent at the positions (with experience) I expect this team to be competative against the big time programs.
NOEL | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 2:18 pm | #

I was wondering if even body had thoughts on who would be the next OC.

Im kinda glad that Yeatman is gone.
He was good but couldnt stay in line.

I really see ND beating USC next year.
Mexican Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 2:31 pm | #

"everyone gets fired up to play ND"

no offense, but that's a tired excuse. all it does is justify the lowered expectations.

but i have no doubt that teams get fired up to play Florida, USC, Texas, and Ohio State. everyone gets fired up to play all the top teams, and the elite teams somehow find a way to win, with very few exceptions. ND has overcome being the "target" many times before.

these days, we struggle against San Diego State and Navy, and lose to Syracuse and look like a high school team against SC.

the problem i have is the huge disparity between the top teams and ND. we're not even close. i didn't expect a national title this year and i don't next year. but we can and should expect a very good (read: elite) team next year. unfortunately, my expectation isn't exactly grounded in any semblance of reality. (full disclosure: i'm also a cubs fan, so I'm not exactly used to living in reality anyway.)

i have a hunch that at this time next year, we will have learned nothing new about this coaching staff, but rather that our suspicions of the last few years have been confirmed. i sincerely hope i'm wrong.

sorry for the early '09 negativity. i'm done being a wet rag. for now.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 2:39 pm | #

I hate that this is a bit of a rationalization, but given that USC beats OSU PSU and Mich about the same as us, a -35-10 type game, then we don't have to be so down on ourselves. Right now USC is 3-4 tds better than everyone except maybe Fla.
I am the glass half full guy to put it mildly, and one of the things I took from the Bowl season is that we are closer to the top than the bottom of the good teams. That being said, thank God we didn't somehow draw Utah! Isn't it funny how one bad game can taint a whole season.(Ala)
I would like to play Ohio State next year in a BCS game. We will be ready!
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 3:11 pm | #

I too am afraid that we were pumped up to play USC, but fell far short due to coaching/talent/scheme/speed/whatever. Pick your favorites from that list.

Now I am anxious to see what changes we make in the offseason to help correct those shortcomings.
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 3:37 pm | #

It seems like the signing day is only a month away. It seem CW needs to step up recruiting since he needs to fill about 6 slots according to my count. Any news?
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 5:25 pm | #

GB
After Weis offered a scholarship to a long snapper, of all positions. I figured he has shot his wad for quality recruits this year.
The kid from Hawaii would be a nice LB at ND, but my guess is U$C. These guys don’t dig ice and snow. Most don’t venture over the Sierra Mountains except on a team plane. Maybe he has some extra rewards for walk-ons?
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 6:58 pm | #

definitely looking forward to see what changes are made. The glimmer of hope here is seeing the improvement the defense has made in the last 2 years. There were problems there with Minter, Charlie made changes and the defense has definitely gotten better. It's not out of the question that the same thing could happen with the running game. Granted, something should have been done two years ago, but better late than never. Let's hope Charlie will bring in the equivalent of a Corwin or Tenuta for the offensive line.
anon | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 7:03 pm | #

Is the "new one committed" recruit Marlon Pollard (prev. committed to UCLA)?

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?...c=1& nid=3129027
LA Domer | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 7:46 pm | #

No. I think he's referring to Christian Lombard (5star OL)...first commit for 2010. And I think Te'o heads to BYU.
tc89 | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 7:56 pm | #

A few quick reactions to previous posts:

NDNE: I realize Conn. has done a nice job of building a program. But to say we should envy them is beyond absurd, even with our dozen years of underperformance. Wake me when they sustain a decade of excellence.

GuyRitz: I'm with you in the call for patience. When Weis was hired everyone (including Urban Meyer) knew we'd stink in 2007 ad 2008. It was worse than expected, but it did not come from nowhere. Next year, there's no more explaining to be done. The bill comes due. But up until now, it's been two years of overperforming and two of underperforming. That's a wash in my book.

Mexican: I, for one, am sad that Yeatman's gone. He is not a troublemaker. He made one genuine mistake and paid for it. On his second offense, he was targeted and screwed. From what I understand, ND lost a nice kid and a great athlete. That's not cause for rejoicing, no matter how many good TEs the roster boasts. I remember what I was like in college, and I'm grateful that ND is a tough, but forgiving, place.

Jade: I continue to appreciate the way your posts set a reasonable tone for the rest of us.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 8:00 pm | #

kmf, we are reaching the point where it is okay to be a wet rag again. The bowl win, regardless of opponent and game stature, was something positive to appreciate. Now reality sets in again. Next season needs to end in a BCS game and, most likely, a BCS win. Otherwise Weis will be let go, assuming a viable replacement. That writing seems to be on the wall.

In recruiting, if there really are 6 or more scholarships available, can someone explain the harm in offering to a handful of 3-star defensive linemen? Is there any hope of a "Moneyball" approach to college football recruiting? Not that ND should need such an approach.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 10:47 pm | #

Subway Alumni

I would not mind seeing ND get another top LB like Teo or Jenkins. Also a couple more OL and another 2 DL and a good WR.
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.06.09 - 11:16 pm | #

I'm with Louie re defensive lineman.

The D-line needs more depth; no reason not to recruit some "3 stars" and coach them up (which ND seems to be able to do on the defensive side of the ball).
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 12:16 am | #

Pumped up to play USC? I wonder. The players on ND MUST doubt the abilities of the coaches; wonder about the "decided schematic advantage" they DO NOT HAVE;be overwhelmed by the supreme confidence they must see in the USC players;and fear for their physical well being. The athletes at USC are just so much better than ours, its Division I vesus Division I AA.
notrewood | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 8:49 am | #

Orson would spell Weis correctly, methinks.

Nice try, though.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 9:30 am | #

Been looking all over for updates on OC candidates but have found nothing. I heard a rumor that Weis offered Andy Heck the OC job about a week ago, but Heck politely declined. Anyone else hear about this?
Prime Time | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 9:43 am | #

Blue&Gold has a nice article on Darrin Walls. He'll be back on campus January 10th for the Spring semester, and seems focused and determined. Our backfield will definitely be upgraded next year with him in the lineup.

http://www.blueandgold.com/conte...ntent/? aid=6520
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 10:09 am | #

I don't think that is the real Orson Swindle.
Sean F | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 12:30 pm | #

I would venture a guess that Te'o is headed to BYU. Even if he commits to us, we only have him for a year before he goes on his mormon mission. That will last 2 years. After that, who knows where he will end up. BYU is used to players leaving and coming back, so I'm thinking He will commit to BYU. Just an observation from my time behind the Zion Curtain.
Xavier Onassis | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 12:42 pm | #

There is something wrong with this team's preparation scheme. They don't really look like they know what they're supposed to be doing and/or they have no confidence once they take the field. I blame the coaching for this. Why should it be a sudden revelation to CW last year when he decided to go back to "taking them to the ground" in practice? Don't U$C and UF practice that way as SOP? These coaches are not preparing this team correctly and the result is a distinct schematic disadvantage when they take the field.
jazzarena | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 1:39 pm | #

Recruiting is probably done for this year. I don't think there is a legitimate shot to land either Teo or Jenkins. How in hell do you get defensive lineman to commit to ND?
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 1:56 pm | #

Hal:

"Notre Dame a tough and forgiving place" ???? ask Abram Eliam
Peter | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 1:56 pm | #

Why compare our team over the last few years to USC and Florida? Neither of those teams have suffered with the lack of experience and depth that ND has had at virtually every position for the past couple of years. The fact that USC takes players "to the ground" and ND didn't isn't because Weis can't coach. It is because USC has a ton of depth and can afford to lose players and we couldn't. Weis has done a tremendous job of bringing in talented players the last few years which not only builds the first team, but also provides depth when players get hurt.

I don't know if anyone has noticed what happens when ND has put in their 2nd and 3rd teams, but it certainly isn't the same as when UF or USC does. ND had a great first team in 2005 and 2006, but virtually no depth behind them. This insured a crappy 2007 and 2008 when everyone graduated.

I don't know a lot about ND in the 50's and 60's, but I know that no other coach from the 60's through the 2000's walked in to the program with as little depth as Weis did. Should it have taken five years to rebuild it? I don't know. I do know that Pete Carroll didn't walk into USC with two missing classes, no offensive lineman, and 70 players on scholarship. I also know that Urban Meyer walked into a situation that virtually any coach in the country could have won 10 games with.

The depth is returning. The only question is whether ND will be patient enough with Weis or will the next coach enjoy the fruit of his staff's labor.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 2:06 pm | #

Promises, promises, Jay. My money is on you guys being too burned out after this craptacular season to post much for awhile.

(Come on reverse-psychology, work your charm! Was that out loud? Doh!)
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 2:14 pm | #

This is off-topic, but in case you haven't noticed, BC's football program is in full self-destruct mode:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...d.ap/ index.html
Colonel Klink | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 4:01 pm | #

Klink-
They'll probably still beat us next year.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 4:07 pm | #

Klink -
In the same time period, BC head coaches seem to migrant to the NFL. ND head coaches migrant to CNN and the links.

Agree with kmf, they could kick our asses again, this time in SB.

Go IRSIH.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 4:29 pm | #

Peter,

Are you suggesting ND should have kept Elam on their team? He was convicted of sexual battery, I believe. In addition, the incident he was involved in smelled like a gang rape. In my opinion, there's not much any college can do with that, beyond breaking ties with the player. Elam's had a tough life, and I'm happy for his success with the Jets. But I don't think ND could have done much beyond what it did in that case.

The point I was trying to make (not too well, I guess) is that I made a lot of mistakes in college, and that I feel for people who make similar mistakes. Elam included.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 4:55 pm | #

Interesting about the BC situation. I'm not sure if it was a smart move or not by BC. Seems I can see both sides of the situation as valid.

Both parties of a contract should be bond unless there is a breach. So it is reasonable to expect a coach to be there for the length of the contract. However, it is reasonable to expect someone to reach their maximum potential.

I certainly understand BC's position - their program has become a stepping stone position for up and coming coaches. Wanting to have a stable coaching situation makes sense and someone somewhere has to be the one to put their foot down and say "you are with us or out."

Now where do they go - would any coach want to coach at BC knowing they could get canned for investigating jobs?

Personally, I think coaches have "the grass is greener" syndrome. RR to Michigan still makes me scratch my head. You are a demigod in your home state at your alma mater and you give that up for a completely different tradition that you don't understand and eventually will get axed because you’re not a "Michigan-man". Or why is Saban better off in Alabama than LSU? Besides the obvious $$$$ what makes these guys so mercenary?

Anyway, it swings both ways. Charlie has 7 years(?) left on his contract and many folks want his head (not that I'm a big fan of his - I'm still not sure if the guy is a college coach or not.) When the coach gets axed prior to the contract end period, at least he gets compensated. Typically, the college gets screwed but WV got their piece of flesh.

What do others think? BC - smart move or not?
Old Fan | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 5:01 pm | #

I think it was foolish for BC to air the dirty laundry, but I can see it both ways. I can understand the AD wanting long-term commitment, but any time you have a good coach, he's going to get looks. And if that coach spent some time in the NFL, he'll get looks from time to time from back home.

Of course, that's what happened in 2005 here, if I'm correct.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 7:38 pm | #

Jags can now be our next coach.
99 | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 8:53 pm | #

Hal and Peter:

Regarding personnel ...the one thing that Charlie should be applauded for is the character of the players recruited by Charlie.

I think being a Domer himself ..it is not just about football. As critical as I have been of his coaching, I have no criticism of his character
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 9:42 pm | #

Hal

This is not something that I wish to become a real issue. but the Elam situation is closest we have come to The Duke Lacross incident. Elam was (is) a very decent kid who got caught up in an awful situation. He was badly served by the University and terribly served by his counsel who was a step below (to say the least) in the type of representation the Duke kids received. It was NO WHERE CLOSE to gang rape. Leave it there, PLEASE. Elam deserved better and good on him that his life worked out.

Dana, to not criticise Weis' character is not to know him, Remarkably, he appears to recruit good kids for which he should be congratulated.
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 01.07.09 - 11:57 pm | #

off topic, but compare the strength and conditioning coaches at OU and UF to what we have at ND...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/0..._r=1& ref=sports
andrew | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 12:24 am | #

Old Fan, you make some very good points, especially about Rodriguez.

Another head scratcher for me was O'Brien leaving BC for NC State. I realize the money was better, but is that not a step down or at best a lateral move?

Regarding Saban, Rodriguez, Petrino, and the rest of the mercenaries, I believe it is a reflection of our society. The 3 bedroom home with a small lawn, the first wife, the family station wagon, does not satisfy any more. We need a McMansion, a fake breasted young hottie, and an Escalade with 20 inch rims to satiate our desires.
sarsfield | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 1:08 am | #

All our coaches are at UF. Did Marotti help contribute in making Brady such a strong QB and warrior?
99 | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 1:33 am | #

Do you think the Jets would interview Weis.??? Ha!

Loyalty no longer exists in our society. Amazing that so many people feel that Jags is getting a raw deal. Sad state of our society... happiness is just one job away or a few more bucks away.. just doesn't work that way. BC gave him a shot and now he's abusing the opportunity.
jmc | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 8:25 am | #

Jags...caught between the Jesuits and the Jets.
TonyND | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 8:57 am | #

If you aren't allowed to look for a new job then you shouldn't be allowed to be fired. BC is going to look ridiculous if their next coach sucks and they have to can him in 2 years.

Which is exactly what I'm hoping will happen.
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:02 am | #

Doesn't every profession have job-hoppers? The situation with BC seems predictable. Does anyone here think that it justifies the contract extension for Weis? BC could have locked up Jagodzinsky, and it might have worked out to be a similar situation. His early returns are good, but he has not landed the Eagles in a BCS game.

How long was Coughlin the coach at BC? Conventional wisdom portrays Boston as a town that could not care much less about BC football. The 2002 Gator Bowl was my only bowl experience, but I can attest to the turn-out and enthusiasm of NC State fans. I think that Tom O'Brien will be much more appreciated there, and probably will have easier recruiting in addition to better pay.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:22 am | #

DomerPlayer,

If that's the case then I'm very sorry for the way it played out for Elam. Never meant to impugn the guy--I've never met him, and I know nothing but what I'd read about his incident. My point was simply that if a guy gets convicted of sexual battery, it's a bit hard for a school to do anything with that, other than to cut ties.

I hope I'm not coming across wrong here. I'm basically saying it's brutal being under the microscope for guys like Elam and Yeatman.

My personal experience at ND was a very positive one, largely because I was afforded a second chance there after making some huge mistakes. I think ND does all it can to extend these second chances to athletes.

Agreed that we don't need to prolong this discussion.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:32 am | #

Another school to consider here is Bowling Green. They just fired a coach who was 44-30 (59.5%) over six seasons. He must have been doing something else wrong, because it is hard to believe that BGSU could reasonably expect more.

On the other hand, the coach from Ball State just left for San Diego State. That appears to be a case of striking while the iron is hot, since BSU's 12-0 start came pretty much out of nowhere. In fact, their winning percentage over the past six seasons is 34-39 (46.6%).

One coach gets fired, another becomes the hot candidate (even to replace Weis!)...
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:35 am | #

Hal:

You said forgiving, none for Elam.

My son attended ND at the time and told me that Malloy and other sacrosanct administrators completely shut out Elam, not even listening to his version of what happened. From what I read the SB prosecuters were looking for someone to punish and scapegoat and found it in Elam.

Rather embarrassing in that one of the tenets of the Catholic faith is forgiveness as well as that ND ruefully claims some sort of 'family' image.

To me it was another opportunity for Malloy to trash the football program.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:43 am | #

Regarding coaches who job-hop such as Rodriguez, O'Brien, etc....

I don't think its so much that they are jumping because they see a better opportunity somewhere else. A lot of times, coaches just get sick of being in the same place. Look at Lou Holtz. Except for his years at ND, he constantly jumped from job to job (and did again after leaving ND). Holtz said that after a few years at one place, he always felt the itch to jump somewhere else.

Look at what happened with Shanahan in the NFL. He is a great coach. But after being at one place for a long time, some people around the program just start to view the head coach differently. Whenever a new DC is brought in, you hear promises of being 'more aggressive' and such, but after a couple years, fans and people around the program change their opinions. I think some coaches realize that they have the ability to build programs, and want to do so until they feel the honeymoon stage is ending. When that happens, or they feel the message they've been giving to their players is wearing thin, they jump ship to greener pastures.

Very, very few coaches get to stick at one job like Paterno and Bowden. It just doesn't happen anymore. Even hometown heroes with incredible winning percentages and championship rings like Fulmer get the boot. Better to jump ship before the feeling gets stale.

You guys are all talking about how "there is no loyalty anymore" among coaches. But what you are failing to talk about is the fact that fans and ADs and 'program friends' are just as fickle.

One of the best things I ever heard to explain coaching changes came from Gerry Dinardo, the former ND All American and coach at Vanderbilt, LSU, and Indiana. I was speaking with him, and tried to politely ask him why he was fired from LSU. Afterall, when he took over LSU, they were pretty shitty, and he built them up to a 9-3 type of team loaded with NFL talent (that Saban won a championship with). When I finally asked him politely why he was fired, he succintly explained "well...lets just say there was a change in ownership."
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:56 am | #

For all you old fogies, fun police, and chicken littles out there who decried the snow-ball throwing during the Syracuse game as mean-spirited and a total recruiting disaster, I point you to the following:

http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s...09&p=2& c=828392

"Illinois has been a productive recruiting ground for the Irish and hope that Kyle Prater will follow Lombard’s lead. Prater, WR, 6-4, 195, Proviso West High School, Hillside, IL is one of the best wide receiver prospects in the Midwest and he has a strong connection to Notre Dame.
* * *
He visited South Bend on 22 November for the Syracuse game.

'It was nice,' Prater recalled. 'It was crazy actually being in the stands. The student section was throwing snowballs at the cameraman. It was kind of funny, but then again it was very exciting watching the game, the intensity, the rituals, everything, the walk, I really enjoyed the walk.'"
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 12:17 pm | #

I couldn't care less what he says about it. It was still wrong to be throwing snowballs at people on the field, and it was still embarrassing for me, as a student in attendance.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 8:18 pm | #

BTW, there's more to the BC thing than just Jags interviewing with the Jets. He's got a Ty-esque recruiting class on the way in, and there are rumblings that he's not really into the whole college thing and wanted out.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 8:19 pm | #

I will miss Jags sporting his Boston College leather jacket.
TonyND | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:47 pm | #

The dismissal of Jags has been the most surprising/shocking (in my college football world)since Ty back in 2004.
skeleton keystone | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 9:53 pm | #

The Jagodzinsk situation was the biggest coaching surprise since ND decided to retain Weis for one more y--even though he has collected the most losses in a two year span at ND.

Urban Meyer please come home! You are the only coach that can take on Pete Carroll and USC.
slater | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 12:20 am | #

Yeah, Jags' jacket looked like something one would order from some fanboy catalog or maybe some premium tied to a 10-year sub to Sports Illustrated.
slater | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 12:28 am | #

I urge everyone to read the WSJ strength and conditioning article linked. I think we have farther to go than people want to admit.
Steve | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 12:29 am | #

That's an interesting article, Steve. Interesting that both of the coaches have ties to ND. Surprising that Marotti was lured away from ND in 2005, which means that he was at ND during Willingham's entire tenure. I remember the stories about pushing the old van around the practice fields, it just seems like those stories came out at about the same time that the Irish turned in some poor performances on the game fields. Conditioning may be necessary, but it's not sufficient!

Brad, I wnjoyed reading your thoughts on coaches and job-hopping. No one could blame a coach leaving the weather of Muncie, IN, for the weather of San Diego, CA... Thanks for sharing the story about Dinardo.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 8:48 am | #

The second infraction against Yeatman was an absolute JOKE. The guy did nothing wrong. He was sitting in a basement quietly hanging out with a few people. He was not at a raucous party, he was not doing beer funnels, he was not driving drunk or out at a bar. He was acting responbibly. Anyone who thinks Yeatman is at fault in this situation is nuts. Let's face it, Bill Kirk and Co ahve gone off the deep end and it's now affecting not only our sports teams but the entire social life of the University. It's a disgrace. I feel bad that Yeatman even has to deal with this.
Jonathan Domer | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 10:50 am | #

Agreed, Jonathan.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 11:23 am | #

Acting responsibly? How is it responsible to drink when it's a condition of his diversion program not to?

I don't mean to minimize the extent to which Yeatman was victimized by an out-of-control police task force and a vindictive ResLife organization, but ultimately the source of his trouble was entirely due to a choice that he made.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 5:11 pm | #

Those who think it is irresponsible to have ONE BEER in a basement with friends, diversion program or not, should join Bill Kirk's goon squad. This is like getting arrested for pulling the tag off your pillow and then citing your act as the cause. C'mon now.
Jonathan Domer | Email | Homepage | 01.12.09 - 1:41 pm | #