Excellent article. The Fainting Irish game is one of those games that Iowa fans have never forgotton.
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:16 am | #

How about 1993?
Brian | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:25 am | #

Well, the '93 team did lose a game. I realize that watching a team that ND beat win the national championship after ND failed to get another shot at them sucked, but I think for the purpose of this exercise, the 1953 team has a better claim.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:33 am | #

Great article Pat and did it spark a long forgotten memory. In grade school we would chant "Feeny Fan" If we saw one.
Sir John | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:55 am | #

I say we claim the 1953 title and the hell with everybody.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:03 am | #

Very well done. The '93 team was very deserving, too. Most of you probably recall that in '89 Miami went 11-1 and finished #1. We went 12-1, but lost to them so we (correctly) finished #2 in the country.

The same scenario too place in '93 (with Florida State being 12-1 this time but losing to us head-to-head). Did we finish number one? Of course we didn't. Lame-o!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:06 am | #

Actually, I think Nebraska and WVU were undefeated going into the bowls in '93. They might have played each other for the title under the current system. The Huskers lost to FSU in the Orange Bowl and the Mountaineers were atomized by Florida in the Sugar Bowl if memory serves.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:16 am | #

In a small way, Notre Dame already does claim the 1953 title. And in solid metal no less.

If you look closely at the base of the Frank Leahy statue outside the stadium, you'll see the bronze plaque from his lads that lists his championships - including 1953.

One other twist to the 1953 claim would also be the use of Michigan's standards. Remember that Michigan claims the 1947 title on the basis of a special, unofficial post-bowl media poll. Of course, it is claimed that Michigan itself lobbied for that special one-time poll, which I don't think was repeated again for many years. Now, to for ND to claim the '53 title based on a special post-bowl poll would be a quirky twist, albeit with the difference being that 1953 wasn't a one-off poll, and was repeated ever since.

As far the "fainting Irish," mar on the claim - tough cookies for the haters. Colorado has a title that was won with five downs. Nebraska has a title won with an illegal kicked pass reception. Miami won with illegal (in a federally-illegal sense) players. Gobs of schools have half-titles.

Ultimately, though, I agree that ND shouldn't claim it. It's like a special beer in the fridge. You know it's Steve's. Steve knows it's Steve's. If you drink it, that's not cool, even though Steve doesn't go around telling you to keep your hands off his beer. Steve's not like that. But don't drink that beer. Just let it be. Steve's cool.
Alces | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:16 am | #

Binny, I was going to say the exact same thing. We ought to claim one of either '89 or '93.
But, Pat's right that '53 is probably the most legit NC we could claim. I would have no problem with ND claiming that.
Gabe | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:18 am | #

You were going to say that because you're awesome, Gabe. People who agree with me are 100% of the time.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:20 am | #

As a follow up..is there any data on how each coach voted in the poll final of 1993?
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:22 am | #

Dana -

I'll bet that a kindergarten Steve Spurrier voted ND 20th!

And of course, a then-middle aged Bobby Bowden and already-dead Joe Paterno ranked ND third.
Alces | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:24 am | #

Alces - Excellent comment.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:35 am | #

What if Charlie had Corwin Brown in 2005 instead of Minter?

Now there's a what if! I hope you can take the time to play it out.
gill | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:53 am | #

As a side note, the ticket stub for the 1953 ND-USC game that was selling for $5.00 would cost approx. $40 in today's dollars. I don't recall what the face value of the 2006 ND-USC game tickets were, but Irish home game tickets cost $62 this season.
The Contrarian | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 10:58 am | #

You realize this discussion may force Alabama to go ahead an self-recognize their 345th National Championship?
Brad | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 11:00 am | #

Unrelated:

more anti-KW material over on NDnation.

looks like the skunkbears were able to get one hell of a deal out of adidas. And no signs that they will have to wear a hideous throw-back jersey in one of the most important games of the year
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 11:04 am | #

Didn't Rockne have a couple of undefeated seasons that aren't recognized as NCs? I think like 1919 and another time?
Greg | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 11:35 am | #

Another fine article - and I totally agree that 1953 is an obvious one, but we also should have either 1989 or 1993. The logic used by the voters (we lost head to head against Miami, so they get the championship with the same record) in 89 should have given us the title in 93. I will ALWAYS claim 93 as a national championship year, and I will go to my grave believing it.
speakirish | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 12:30 pm | #

1964. Ara's miracle of Huarte to Snow season, was stolen from us at USC. We were up 3 or 4 with 2 minutes to go and on the one-foot line. On a quarterback dive for a TD, a phantom hold was called and we failed to score. The USC quarterback went wild and they scored a late touchdown to stop the undefeated season. Bear Bryant moaned about us not going to a bowl game (ND plays politics, Bear plays football), but we were still given several nods, as you can see from the record. As you know, he was punished for that blasphemy, as he was 0-5 against us.
ND67Aquajock | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 1:03 pm | #

Pat's opus!
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 1:03 pm | #

I think we all know that other teams can claim all the national titles they want and the media won't care, but if ND claimed '53, they would crucify us and point out how spoiled we are. I must admit that it pains me that if USC wins this year, they will pass us in titles because of that bogus addition. But the joke on them is that USC added that title and no one really cared(except maybe us), because they are USC and not Notre Dame. Another interesting thing that hasn't been mentioned is the Media's use of only AP titles when talking about programs. In this scenario, we're okay, because We have 8 and OK has 7. USC has several split titles in the 74 and 78 that were awarded from the coaches side (OK won the AP those years coincidentally), so they aren't counted when the media talks title numbers.

I guess the only good thing about the BCS is that it at worst only produces two champs in any given year, since all those smaller polls tie into the BCS champ. But if history is up grabs, we have the most legitimate shot at '53 and Maryland fans know it. I know if historians were to redo numbers based on final standings after bowls we'd probably come out on top.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 1:30 pm | #

Good article. Reminds me of this from The Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/content/...tent/node/ 42106

Notre Dame Football Announces Improvements To Its Storied History
"Although we have great hopes for the future of our football program, Notre Dame has greater hopes for a facet of that program that is far more important to our university: our past," Notre Dame athletic director Kevin White said in a press conference Monday. "With that in mind, we will be making improvements, additions, and revisions that, like our history itself, have been 118 years in the making."
irishru2 | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 2:21 pm | #

If we ever did try and claim the '53 title, I would not want to do it until after we won another title, maybe in 2008 or 2009?

Excellent article Pat. I like the quote "...Rockne also persuaded Dickinson and Rissman to predate the whole thing a couple of years so that the 1924 Irish -- the Four Horsemen team...". The '24 Irish team played in the 1925 Rose Bowl and defeated Stanford 27-10, the last time the Irish have played any game in that facility. Fast forward to October 6, 2007. The Irish return to Pasadena to play UCLA in the Rose Bowl. Even after all these years, the Tournament of Roses (not necessarily UCLA) has not forgotten that historic 1925 Rose Bowl game featuring the Four Horsemen. The Rose Bowl game day graphics features an image of the Four Horsemen.
PasadenaDomer | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 2:28 pm | #

People seem to forget that Miami lost to FSU early in the season and beat us at the end. We beat FSU and then the following week we lost to BC. I think you will find across football history that a late season loss is not taken as kindly as a early season one.

I still think we deserved both 89 and 93 because of our tougher schedule, but I don't think we got jobbed.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:02 pm | #

gill,

Asked that, too. Doesn't play. I was right about Minter waaaay back (like when he was hired) and got ignored. No one wants more "I told you so's" from TLB.

Domers,

1993's could have been our's if we SMOKED A&M and we did the previous Bowl season. The prev. yr we womped them 28-3. If we'd have done that again, we'd have made the MNC poll interesting. As I recall, A&M came to play and we were pretty flat. We had to come from behind. Rather unimpressive. Also, Neb came to play v. FSU and if we'd have played them, they may have squeaked us. After all, we still had Minter (BC game, anyone) telling our All-NFL rookie team what to do.

Remember, the only difference in the MNC was BC made their FG, Neb choked their's.

We had our chance, but blew it a couple of times (BC, not smoking A&M again, as expected).

1953 made the case. 1993 there was enough doubt to give one to Bobby and "screw Lou out of two."

Sigh.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 9:03 pm | #

Beat you to it.
omahadomer | Email | Homepage | 07.27.07 - 11:52 pm | #

Slight correction -- the Irish disobeyed Coach Leahy's orders at least once before 1953. I witnessed the memorable play as an ND student in 1951.

Playing at home, the Irish were behind by a TD in the 4th quarter. On 4th down, Johnny Lattner lined up in punt formation. But in the huddle, Captain Jim Mutscheller had changed the play, telling Lattner to throw him a long pass. The impromptu play worked to perfection, setting up the tying score. Afterward, Mutscheller said that if he hadn't caught the pass, rather than face Coach Leahy he'd have kept running right out the tunnel.
Irish4ever | Email | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 10:25 am | #

Nicely done as always omahadomer.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 11:57 am | #

'53 does seem like a legitimate contender for another NC. ND can make a claim for the '64 NC as they won the McArthur Bowl that year. Here's the link
http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~d...lin/ champs.html
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 3:37 pm | #