You nailed. There is no more to say.
tridentum | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:14 pm | #

Paul Johnson
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:16 pm | #

Why can't a tradition like ND attract capable coaches?

Is the admin so much worse to deal with than any place else?

When does ND stop paying TW?

If we can't afford to buy-out CW now, when will we?

If we are stuck with a lame-duck staff because we can't afford a buyout now, who should we get and when can we get them in?

Can JSwar dictate that certain coaches are fired (Polian, Latina, Mendoza, Powlus, DL, DB)?

Go, Irish, dump the loser coaches!

P.S. Whoever said Navy & Cuse are our rivals is right. I would add ANY team with a winning record OWNS us.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:18 pm | #

41 yards rushing against Syracuse was shocking!
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:21 pm | #

At least Michigan suck too.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:25 pm | #

actually the snow balls are the story. students who went to ND most likely because of their love for the football team, had such little respect for the players that they threw snowballs at them on national tv. that says it all. the kids hate the team and the players, as they are an embarrassement. tell people you went to ND and they said "wow!". tell them now and they chuckle and say "you suck at football"

fire Weis tomorrow.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:27 pm | #

Actually, belocki, the student who threw snowballs at the team (their classmates) should be forced to stand on the 50-yard line and have Pat Kuntz and Ethan Johnson punch them in the nuts for an hour. I don't care how bad the team is. That is some cowardly bullshit.
Dylan | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:33 pm | #

Dylan,

If ND can't buy up the rest of CW's contract, could they pull back Holtz to be the head coach, CW as OC and keep T as DC?

or...

If not those options, how do you think ND will fair in '09?
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:34 pm | #

Dylan, where have you been all my life?
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:40 pm | #

Dylan,

Very sneaky thought. I don't know if the contract stipulates which position CW would be paid for. Great idea.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:40 pm | #

No excuse for the snowballs. Not the players fault, but I do understand the frustration. We have not been relevant to college football for 15 years, and we keep hiring clown coaches. My concern is, other programs have a transition, a down year or two, and then get it back together. I would not be surprised if programs like Michigan or UCLA turn it around before we do. Our problems seem to mirror those of Nebraska...we just cant get over the hump.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:45 pm | #

this is a great example of the attitude of the team. they are sick of charlie and think he sucks. this is a pro quote from a player who does not give a sh*t about his coach.

Golden Tate had two TD catches for the Irish.

"I just go into each game playing. That all of my power. I'm a player. My job is to play, not to make decisions on who's the head coach," he said.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:48 pm | #

Michigan just came off their worst season ever when they had a Walk-on sophomore at QB, freshman running backs until the upperclassman stopped fumbling/being hurt, and 1 returning Junior WR. This doesn't even mention their offensive line that was left with so little depth they had to start a DT last year on the line.

They also have a coach that has won everywhere he has been and has 15 years of head coaching experience. I don't think Michigan sucking this year makes me feel any better to be a Notre Dame alum. Now if USC sucked, then I might smile a bit.
RichardDor | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:51 pm | #

From Rivals:
"Football Championship Subdivision opponent Northeastern had 90 yards rushing against Syracuse. Notre Dame had just 41 yards rushing against Syracuse—49 less than Northeastern."
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:56 pm | #

I was a CW apologist until today, honestly thinking that we've gotta stick with him - we've run a coaching carousel for the last dozen years and its not a good thing. But after today, my mind has changed. I don't see how this good recruiting class we've amassed will stick with us after watching the second half of this season. The only way we're going to keep those recruits is to hire a (good) new coach before the bowl game, who can visit all of those recruits and convince them to stick with ND. If we keep Charlie, they're outta here, and this program, which began this season in a positive direction, is going to spiral further into irrelevance.
yogurt | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:58 pm | #

"Football Championship Subdivision opponent Northeastern had 90 yards rushing against Syracuse. Notre Dame had just 41 yards rushing against Syracuse—49 less than Northeastern."

Hire Rocky Hager!!!
Matt J | Email | Homepage | 11.22.08 - 11:59 pm | #

Sterling James - Why in the world would we want to keep Tenuta? Do our constant blitzes ever fool the offense? We almost never pressure the QB, much less sack him. When the game is on the line in fourth quarter, our defense cannot make a play. The whole Tenuta thing has been a flop. Charlie, Tenuta -- these guys talk a good game, but they don't walk the walk.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:01 am | #

Two words: Lou Holtz.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:06 am | #

Dylan,

nit picking perhaps, but you would want a hand on the tiller, not the rudder,

CFB is not the NFL. Different game, you must be able to run. We have not, can not. You don't "take what the defense gives you" instead you impose your game on them.

Maybe it's the pain killers.

What recruits?? So they were HS players???? maybe i'm missing something. It's about Saturdays. Period.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:27 am | #

How much is the buyout Im sure the subway alums would be willing like me to pay for it. This was almost as embarrassing at the Miami beat down in Faust last game....I take that back this is worst, Faust was a nice humble man who knew he wasnt the right man for the job. Charlie stated before his first game he would step down if he wasnt getting the job done... Charlie show some respect for your school and step down, show your son what a real man would do. I dont see how anyone can defend him anymore.
Tony | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:30 am | #

The big excuse last year "Oh, well, Willingham couldn't recruit." Now we now that Weis was better with Willingham's players than he is with his own.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:32 am | #

My greatest regret about this season currently is Jimmy Clausen's regression with each game. He looks horribly inept. He has been sliding downhill since his pass interception at the start of the second half of the North Carolina game. Things appears totally out of his control. He looks more and more like Ron Powlus, his QB coach, with each contest. He is slow on his feet. He is hesitant with his pass deliveries. And, he is incapable of quickly finding open receivers. He is lost on so many plays. Just like Powlus was on all three conditions in his days. He appears to be chasing Coach Ron's all-time ND record of throwing the ball out of bounds when all passing hope is lost. As for CW, I do not think ND will eat five years of his contract just to get rid of him. That is a heckuva lot of money to throw out the window. Charlie leaves the ND coaching lines on his own resignation at this time. To me it is unbelievable that Charlie could fall so far from his first year success. But, he has and his coaching and play calling now have a stench about them.
baseballeddy | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:35 am | #

There really isn't anything more to talk about, except to air our complaints.

I like Charlie. But even in the first two years, we were never a physical team. We had some tough players - BQ, TZ and Darius Walker, who though "slow" never let the first guy tackle him, but no Weis coached team could be considered physical.

Watching a mediocre BC physically manhandle us convinced me that Charlie was over his head. Even Davie and and WIllingham led team - though we had blow out losses, never had such soft teams as Weis has produced.

We have talent - especially at the skill positions, but there seems to be no mental or physical toughness. And that is simply a reflection of coaching. I'm sure Charlie will get a pro coordinator or position coaching job and be successful but he just isn't a very good college head coach.

What ND needs now is an old school coach, much like what we got after the Faust experiment. We don't need and Xs and Os guy - we need a taskmaster.
OldFan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:43 am | #

Weis should take the high road and get out. He has the perfect excuse - he looks like hell. It wouldn't be a stretch if he resigned for health reasons.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:43 am | #

Enlightened Spartan:

After your team's pathetic performance today (-14 yards rushing into the 2Q), I suggest you go lick your wounds. You played two really tough Big Ten teams this year and gave up 90 points. You do not seem very "enlightened".
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:50 am | #

I must admit, while not a fan of ND, I'm plenty surprised at the way this is going down. My roommate is a huge fan, and after hearing what happened today, I came to the site to see what the consensus was, and am stunned to hear people talking about getting rid of Weis. Wasn't he the savior of the program like 3 years ago? I mean, the man did take you to 2 straight BCS bowls. Granted, last year was rough, but come on. Just because you're Notre Dame doesn't mean you automatically get 10 wins a year! Let the man build a program. I will admit, however, I find it funny that people are just now starting to sower on Clausen. His whole family has been horrible at the QB position. Overlooking both Casey and Rick, I'm sure Jimmy looked like a great call. Ask a Tennessee fan how that family works out, though.
Willl | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:22 am | #

Weis, if we are lucky, can follow Joe Tiller's example and just retire after this season.
Weis & Faust the worst ever | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:25 am | #

In retirement he can read Faust's bio
"Notre Dame's Man in (useless) Motion."
Weis & Faust the worst ever | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:27 am | #

im wondering why weis was saying before the season started that he fully expected at least a 9 win season
poopface | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:34 am | #

Prove Weis was involved in Spygate in a court of law to dissolve his contract for misrepresentation.
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:35 am | #

While you always want to win as many games as you can every season....
there is one good thing to not finishing this year with too good a record....
We will play in a bowl game against a team at our level, a bowl we deserve to be in, and finally get a win.
Then we wont have to listen to the annoying ND hasn't won a bowl game in a decade broken record on sports radio and TV.
IE...It's better than going to a New Years Day or BCS bowl where we dont deserve to be, and playing a team out of our league, and getting "exposed" as if it is NDs fault that we dont play an SEC schedule.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:38 am | #

ND likely won't have to pay the entire remaining salary if they fired Weis. I haven't looked at the legal authority in IN, but he will have to put in a good faith effort to find similar work. Weis isn't going to sit multiple years out of coaching if fired, so ND will likely only have to pay 1-2 years worth of his salary. However, ND would likely work out an agreement beforehand like they did with Willingham, which I think they just finished paying on this year at $4m.

Btw, I like Weis. He's aware of everything going on. He's tried to fix things the best he could. Things just aren't working out and the team is starting to look inept. I just hope he lights a fire under the team, so they put forth a strong showing against USC. Perhaps for a full game too. (I hope it's not just me, but it looks like the team shows it's ability for like 1 quarter per game. When we're lucky 2 quarters.)
Wow... | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:39 am | #

Weis needs to hand over his young players to a real college coach--for the good of ND. He can go back to the NFL and/or sue people for a living. Hopefully, an era in ND football ended today and we can move on.

Bearcats 28
Panthers 21
Rojo | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:51 am | #

Davie>O'Leary>Ty
Ty>Meyer>Weis
Weis>X>Z?

How would we screw it up this time? Do we really think the devil we don't know will be better than the one we do? Who is even out there worth considering?
EnDee | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:57 am | #

Hey everyone,
I am a current ND student who was at the game today. Please believe me, the snowball throwing at players has been way overblown by the media. Maybe 30% of the snowballs were aimed, instead of just thrown up in the air, and most of that 30% was aimed at cameramen or Orange Gloves. I promise, we are not terrible enough to hit our own team. If you throw up a snowball in our bowl-shaped stadium, it has a high likelihood of hitting the field, and I'm sure most people didn't mean to hit players.

Please, please listen. It is killing me how much the media is blowing this out of proportion.
Laura | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:10 am | #

EnDee, I like Meyer's defensive assistant. I'm just uncertain of how much experience he has and ND can't afford to take a gamble. The school needs a proven winner and the only person out there who fits the bill is Butch Davis. He's too shady for ND, but he'll recruit and coach well. If we can get Gruden, then he's a must. Pretty thin pool otherwise.
Wow... | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:15 am | #

A couple of thoughts on being at the game and where Charlie stands.

Being a student and seeing snowballs coming in all directions and hitting our team, state troopers, referees, ushers, cheerleaders, and other individuals on the sidelines was an absolute embarrassment. I guess there was too much snow to remove over a short period of time so they cleared the bleachers and main walking aisles but left the snow in the rows, which turned out to be a bad idea. Nevertheless, no excuse and those involved (at least one student who was arrested by the state police) should be reprimanded.

As far as Charlie, there is no disputing the facts brought forth by Dylan. Yes we have made progress over last year, but the schedule is weaker and is difficult to draw comparisons with wins and losses. Like any employer/employee relationship, there are certain performance metrics that none of us will ever know. What Swarbrick and the Administration have set as goals for Charlie this year is not known, or at least I have not seen them. I think Swarbrick’s comment last week saying it is premature to evaluate is correct because until the performance period is completed, you don’t know where someone stands relative to those agreed upon goals.

Everything is pure speculation at this time, so we will know a bit more after the season is over. I don’t think anything will be done prior to that. Personally, not knowing what Charlie’s 2008 goals were, I would speculate that he would be retained but with very specific goals centered around the minimum amount of wins and other related performance metrics for 2009. I do believe if his performance falls short in 2009, there is a great likelihood for change. So Charlie will need to decide what changes will have to be made in 2009 that give both himself and the team the greatest likelihood for attaining those goals. I would be shocked if some significant staffing changes did not occur. I don’t think Swarbrick’s approach would be to mandate changes as that’s part of evaluating the job of the head coach and his ability to hire, evaluate and terminate, if necessary, staff for unacceptable performance. Charlie would have an alibi if Swarbrick got involved.

I do agree with all of Dylan’s points and am thoroughly disgusted with how we have lost certain games, particularly today’s game. I think what we have seen over the course of the year thus far were some glimmers of promise with wins early in the season over teams that were not very good who we played at home. What we have seen (up until today) are more recent losses against some better teams that were frustrating. Today’s loss is a deepening concern given Syracuse’s record and team statistics. It certainly makes the USC game even more daunting than I previously thought.

And lastly, isn’t the term “Enlightened Spartan” an oxymoron, or “oxymoronic” if you will?
Irish VilleIn | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:42 am | #

Urban Meyer. If the guy wants to come this might be his best and last chance. LEt's see if he really loves ND and the claim that it wasn't the right time is true. Weis will certainly leave him a full cupboard, unlike Willingham left him.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:53 am | #

Gruden? So you want another coach with no college HC experience??? I agree with everyone that we're headed in the wrong direction. I still think Weis will end up getting another year. That doesn't mean we can't shake things up a bit (new OL coach and open up competition for the QB position next spring).
Dan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:56 am | #

Funny how so many people were defending Weis after his incredibly inept coaching staff did everything in their power to hand the game to a weak Navy team coached by a young first-year HC...Now, they blow it against a team coached by the dude from Sealab (BIZARRO!)-his 10th win in four years, mind you-and everyone jumps off the bandwagon. Or throws snowballs at it (funny, if you ask me).

This is what you would call Official Rock Bottom, no? How do you watch a team of giant blue-chip recruits on the O-line play Paddy Cake for three seasons and a young QB regress down the stretch two seasons in a row, and Special Olympics teams trot out onto the field in a Clown Car, and NOT see that things are getting WORSE, not BETTER?

I feel like The Cut Off The Left Hand Killer screaming at Cartman, "DO YOU SEE?! DO YOU SEE?!" as this Horror Show unfolds on NBC week after week, Tom Hammond's Giant Dome blocking out the sun so much that Massive Hail Stones rain down upon the Soft, Candy Ass Super Recruits like Frogs and Locusts at the Apocalypse.

How does ANY administration, yet alone one at such a Tradition-Rich School, give a Fat, Arrogant, First-Year HC a 10-YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION for going 5-2 in his first 7 games?

Weis is living The American Dream. Shady Business Practices to pad the resume. Sue the doctor who operates on you. Sue the people who built your mansion. Treat Underlings like dirt. Strong Arm your current employer with False Promises of a Bigger Job Offer (I bet the Giants regret sticking with Coughlin now). Collect your Millions and continue to produce a Crap Product.

Weis is The Ford CEO. Maybe ND can get the guts to finally fire his Arrogant Ass now, and he can go run the Detroit Lions further into the ground. And cut his Golden Boy QB a sweet deal on a Hummer while he's at it.

This is Beyond Bad. Nice to see all the Polyanna Apologists wise up and finally start to smell the stench that has been brewing in Ethanol-Rich South Bend. And they thought it was just Charlie's backed-up bowl...oh no. It's much worse.

Clearly, Terrelle Pryor is withering without King Charlie's tutelage. Brady Quinn also. And clearly, Clausen is thriving under the steady, solid hand of The Play Calling Genius.

Does this guy ever TRULY take the blame for the disaster he has inflicted upon so many Passionate Fans?

Does he EVER back up any of the hundreds of Outrageously Arrogant Boasts he spits out day after day, week after week?

What a fraud. This guy is the George W. Bush of Football. And all these years I thought that Rich Distinction belonged to Dave Wannstache...

16 losses in his last 25 games. 0-2 against Big Least teams this year. Losses to Syracuse, Navy, almost SDSU, Michigan State (every year), Valentine's Day Massacres against the University of Spoiled Children.

OK, THAT is to be expected.

Where does it end? WHEN does it end?

Irish Eyes are crying.

If they haven't already been gouged out.

Swarbrick...act decisively. Be proactive. Assemble a team.

Be Obama-esque. Now.

Do it. Cut the cord. This guy will never leave on his own accord.

Hell, why would he?

Brutal.
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:07 am | #

Oh yeah, and it's all Mike Haywood's fault!
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:08 am | #

Go to bed, Straight Edge. Or should I say, Lisa Horne. We all know it's you.
ohplz | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 5:24 am | #

Straight Edge has it right here - and he didn't even mention the biggest red flag of them all: the "decided schematic advantage" quote, which of course since Spygate takes on added significance.

That quote means that Weis thought one of only two possible things when he said those words. Either 1. he planned on continuing to steal other teams' signals and/or otherwise cheat at ND, or 2. he actually believed that his success with the Patriots was entirely the result of his own special genius and not at least partly the result of cheating.

These are the only two explanations of that quote that are allowed by the available facts. Given the laptop-in-the-coaches'-box incident, I'm inclined to go with 1., but I can't really KNOW that.

The point of this is that either explanation is, or ought to be, appalling and outrageous.

Of course, y'all are really in a bind right now - Weis obviously has to go, given what a colossal failure his tenure has been (for whatever reasons and by whatever metrics you choose). But who do you get?

I think you have two options: Brian Kelly or John Tenuta. Dylan urges calls to "Denver, Tuscaloosa, Norman, Gainesville, Baton Rouge, wherever." I know this is probably just hyperbole, but still - PLEASE. Hawkins is not a real possibility for the same reason Leach wouldn't be; the ND community (for lack of a better word) won't tolerate that kind of personal eccentrism no matter what. Saban, Stoops, Meyer and Miles would laugh in your faces. They all coach at schools where winning a conference championship is almost (repeat ALMOST) a guarantee of a championship-game berth - why would they choose to come to a rebuilding program where you pretty much need to run the table against (usually) USC, Michigan, Michigan State, and at least one other big-name team to get there, given the bottom-feeder nature of the rest of your schedule?

Kelly is your best option, and he's still likely to pick Tennessee over ND if he's given the choice. Tenuta sounds like a bad option to be sure, but he's likely to end up as your only one. Whatever the result of all this is, I certainly don't envy any of you.
El Caballo de Sangre | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 5:51 am | #

The only wild card here is Urban Meyer. The mercenary quality of his Bowling Green-Utah-Florida journey paradoxically cuts in his favor here, by suggesting that the only job he really has any deep personal connection to might - repeat MIGHT - be the one in South Bend. Given his affinity for ND, being the savior of the Irish might get him there. But of course he should have been offered the job rather than CW, and you never know if he might want to enjoy Florida for a while longer and let you twist in the wind (as you're sure to do for a couple more years at least) as payback for the slight. He's young enough to bide his time, and even if it doesn't work out coaching the Gators is still an awfully sweet gig.
El Caballo de Sangre | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:01 am | #

Still looking for a "signature win".

Unfortunately, the "signature losses" keep piling up.
TooTall | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:01 am | #

I think I love Holtz as much as anyone - but are any of you actually serious about asking him to coach again?

1. Unless he has been spending his nights building a secret 22nd century game plan in his basement, he would be nothing more than a figurehead. Sure that's exactly what we are missing now, but fired up players running the schemes Holtz can remember from the 80s wouldn't do much better. A Clausen-led option would make for great blooper reals though. :)

2. Players today are delicate mental flowers with visions of NFL $$$, and 6+ years of everyone kissing their ass hoping to ride the NFL $$$ money train. After 2 days of Holtz basic training, they'd all transfer.

Besides, I like him where he is. The man is a walking dichotomy - the sharpest and slipperiest tongue in college football commentary.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:15 am | #

To be honest, I was drunk, so I don’t know if I fell, was pushed, or jumped off the Charlie Weis bandwagon. Yes, it took the Orange Game, (for gosh sakes, that don’t even have a decent name and they beat us) to convince me to join the other side.

I suspect the AD will give him a fifth year and that will be it. Charlie because he is one of you guys will resign. Money will pass hands to be sure. It will not be like the Moore trial or Dick Rods exit from WV, we have too much class for all that. Interesting with his roots to ND (Charlie Jr. a future student) and the Friends of Hannah complex being built, how this will play out.

Watch for window dressing moves this winter like letting a couple of coaches go and the like. Just like the soul searching last year, the pilgrimage to Hokie Land, and one-on-one counseling from NFL head coaches as two years ago.

Sorry Charlie.

Go IRISH, make USC our Bowl Game.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:51 am | #

great point, mike haywood is thrilled to have had personal issues when he did. this mess is not on his hands
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:58 am | #

I hurt people. I hurt badly.
jp | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:26 am | #

Anyone pushing for Urban Meyer is delusional.
One,while the media widely reported that Meyer turned down ND, that is not entirely accurate if accurate at all. Meyer's pre-conditions were unacceptable.
Two, most of the athletes Meyer has at Florida would be watching ND games in the stands as fans, not students. Is this what you really want?
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:42 am | #

Quit commenting about Weis' contract. You have not seen it and unless you do, you are basically engaging in idle speculation. A research of IN law is relatively meaningless without reading the written document. Likewise, pick any coach you want but remember he is most likely bound by a contract. ND does not want a Rich Rod situation a la West Virginia.
esquire | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:48 am | #

Great point about the announcing Dylan. Do you think the New York Yankees would have Carlton Fisk doing their games? It's insane to have an alum of our most hated opponent, a man who had a hand in one our of most devastating losses ('74, not yesterday) doing color in our own stadium.

Not that it would change or heal our collective misery. This feels almost as bad as the '85 loss to Miami....maybe worse.
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:49 am | #

I don't think he is incompetent, like Ty Willingham.

Dylan, I hate to break it to you, but Weis is just as incompetent. And unjustifiably arrogant to boot.

As for the next coach, why exactly would Urban Meyer want to come to South Bend at this point? He's built a powerhouse at Florida. Let's be a bit more realistic. Brian Kelly seems like a far more likely option.
Ricky Runnin' Waters | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:49 am | #

Runnin'Waters:

Look at Ty's last 4 years at UW. I hater to break it to you but CW may be bad but he is not as incompetent as Ty. And remember, Ty said it is not in his makeup to quit!!
dillion | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:52 am | #

I thought Straight Edge was Dennis Miller until the Bush swipe and the Obama rave. I don't think those are Miller's politics, but other than that, I was hearing his voice through the whole thing. I especially loved:
"...as this Horror Show unfolds on NBC week after week, Tom Hammond's Giant Dome blocking out the sun so much that Massive Hail Stones rain down upon the Soft, Candy Ass Super Recruits like Frogs and Locusts at the Apocalypse."
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:53 am | #

Obama-esque? You have to be joking. The guy who is sold his soulto the Clintons? Making empty promises on TV just yesterday? Don't you want someone with experience at head coach?
cv | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:56 am | #

Coaches
kelly- like him alot.
meyer - if he wins NC at Fla, he could be had
murphy -harvard - coached at cincy back in 90s and won, then went to harvard.
wittingham - utah - did it long after meyer left


NO F8CKING WAY
tenuta
Schiano - he could win 10 or 11 nextyr with this team, but he is s-bag.
any florida asst
Clements

NO EXCITEMENT, but ok
edsall
patterson TCU
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 8:04 am | #

Why not bring back Lou Holtz and he can bring Corso, Davie, Terry Bowden and, maybe, Mark May and Paul Maguire with him from ESPN as assts. Makes as much sense as thinking CW can be dumped and Meyer will replace him. Better pray CW improves, because he is ours!
rm | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 8:22 am | #

Saturnday - the 8th day of the week, and 3rd day of the weekend. Only seems to happen when an ND football game is particularly horrible to watch. Disgusted, and unwilling to take a nother minute of awareness - Obediah wonders off to bed, half-drunk, between 4 and 8 pm on a Saturday. He then wakes up completely discombobulated around 2:30 AM, not sure who or where he is. Then it hits him - Saturnday! A 5-6 hour window to eat leftover takeout, drink leftover beer, and play some computer games.

There have been a lot of Saturndays the last few years. :(
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:02 am | #

I too came here to get feel for what the domers think.

1- There are about 231 things more important to do than complain about the refs to your opponents and the public. I mean, seriously? The heel rule?

2- On a less ranting note: I think the ND fanbase is slipping into a dangerous state of mind in which it is ok to constantly shake things up every three to four years. It's the same thing that has caused the Yankees to slip...you focus on the pieces instead of looking at the less tangible things like culture, momentum and circumstance. Weis clearly has a good sense of offense (Patriots, etc.), so why is he failing so miserable? Saying "he's a terrible coach and a clown" doesn't address the problem.

3- Who are you going to get, anyway? After you treated the last three coaches guys in low pressure jobs with respectable fans are a lot harder to give up. Plus, it's a lot easier for a school like Texas Tech, West Virginia, and Rutgers to get into the upper ranks. That wasn't always the case and was a major reason why ND was able to poach other coaches. Besides that, there are like 45 open D1a coaching jobs right now, it's a sellers market.
Jay121 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:21 am | #

Hire Bill Cowher! Bring in THE JAW!
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:32 am | #

Look at Ty's last 4 years at UW. I hater to break it to you but CW may be bad but he is not as incompetent as Ty.

Dillion - give CW some time. Assuming he gets another college coaching job after this one, I think he's more than capable of replicating TW's continuing ineptitude.
Ricky Runnin' Waters | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:39 am | #

Good bye Charlie! It's time for a real coach. He took back play calling and has done a terrible job at it. Sandlot calls won't work at this level. Go back to Jersey.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:40 am | #

PLEASE, no bowl games. We've done enough to ruin these players future. Consider a forfit of the USC game and save the airfare. Would not surprise me to see 100-0 next week. Bye Charlie!
Mike | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:45 am | #

Post of the year. Thank you.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:31 am | #

Sorry Charlie. The NFL needs good OCs.
Major Onions | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:36 am | #

SNOWBALLS! UND had more than enough money and time to remove it. That was a joke sitting in 6" of snow @ those prices.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:37 am | #

Ty is gone, the holes he left do not explain losing to a 2-8 team how many years later.
And the AD would have a hard time demanding anything give the current state this program is in.
This program has just went flat line and the doctor who is in charge is clueless.
At least Ty had a reason, he was to busy playing golf to care about the program.
irirshmike | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:46 am | #

The snowballs and the booing are unacceptable. Period.

This is a not a pro team. These are our boys. They work harder at what they do than most of us can comprehend. Win, lose or draw, they deserve support, not scorn.

We are a family. They are our brothers, and they are working hard. You do not fucking boo them.

Sorry for the profanity. Sometimes it has its place.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:50 am | #

Booing is completely acceptable and deserved. Snowballs, not so much, unless they all hit CW.

Fans have every right to express their frustration...if a person can't stand booing when a team and coaching staff FAIL FUCKING MISERABLY WEEK AFTER WEEK than go play or watch fucking ice skating.

I may not be able to comprehend the level of physical commitment, but fucking a, my twenty-plus years of emotional investment gives me that right. The return on that investment the past two seasons - and for the better part of the past 15 - has been ulcers on Saturdays.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:12 am | #

You need to replace the image of Ryan Harris looking back while Brady is being sacked.

Harris was the best lineman of the Weis era.

If you're going to use somebody, use guys who are the product of Weis/Latina: Turkovich, Sam Young, Wenger, Olsen etc.

And don't use USC in the image. Those guys don't deserve to be shown being beaten by players as good as USC. They stood around and watched their teammates get creamed by defensive players from Navy, Air Force, Syracuse, Boston College, Purdue, Georgia Tech etc.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:14 am | #

I miss my Notre Dame.

I don't like this new school crap that we've been cultivating for the past 15 years.

I miss the "Love thee Notre Dame" days, not the "Love what you can do for me Notre Dame."

It occurred to me that bitching about Charlie Weis is focusing on the most visible symptom and not the inherent problem. Notre Dame is dangerously close to completely losing it's heart and soul. I've felt this for a long time but it's not exactly a great conversation starter at Alumni gatherings.

I don't know, maybe I'm just depressed and suffering from a severe lack of sleep, but I want my old Notre Dame back. Whether Weis stays or goes and we bring in the next miracle-worker, it almost doesn't matter. As an institution, I really feel we've lost our way. We've forgotten who we are. To me that is far worse than losing a game to Syracuse. Losing who we are, that *really* hurts.
creoleirish | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:31 am | #

cv,

The election is over. Your guys lost. Get over it.
jp | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:42 am | #

I just thought of something. Four out of our last five coaches have been complete duds.

Faust, Davies, Willingham and now Weis (Holtz is the obvious exception).

In the past twenty-eight years we've had a bad coach for eighteen of them.
Wondering | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:01 pm | #

So he woke up some echoes. It's just they were the wrong echoes.

"Karl Marx, wrong again."

Wait a minute, are you saying that Marx was wrong before?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:13 pm | #

Domers,

Ultimately, it was Tom Brady, Brady Quinn, Stovall, Shark and TW that fooled me re: CW. I initially gave CW credit for player development. In the end, they were special players who worked to get it right. CW rode their coat tails and I bought it. CW also looked much better because he followed TW.

NE went 18-0 w/o CW and TB had ~50 TD's last year.

BQ and Stovall see NFL playing time and the Shark has a Weis-ian (Fat a$$) contract with the Cubs. Big players work hard to make big plays. Without BQ, Mo-Sto and Shark, CW was exposed.

Last week, without a freshman WR, Floyd, CW was exposed outside the Domer nation.

CW main failures were:
1) Inability to motivate
2) Horrific judge / regulator of assistant coaches
3) Inability to instill team work ethic / toughness
4) Lack of leadership: when your FG kicker costs you 2 to 3 games a year, more scholly's should be used OR ST coach should be replaced

While I have bragged about being right about some small stuff, I blew it on the big picture. CW cannot be a successful CFB HC for the above reasons.

Mea Culpa and I'm sorry.

Go, Irish, hire good CFB coaches!
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:18 pm | #

Add me as one more Charlie backer who is now off the bandwagon. What I cannot accept is the inept play calling-the one thing he is supposed to excel at. Did any one else say to themselves at 19-10 "go for two". Did anyone else think, don't go for a 48 yd fg on a freezing day-punt it inside the 10?
I know everyone else said,"don't simply give to Aldridge or AA on 4th and 3.
I cannot believe that I can consistently call a better game than CW. Just before the TD to Tate, I was saying to my son,just throw it up and let Golden fight for it.He wins almost every battle.
This is not brilliance on my part, or second guessing. This is just common sense observations from watching the team and the players closely. How can the coaches miss it?
Finally, and not meaning to change the subject, but Clausen is as much of the problem as Weis. Clausen doesn't have the magic "it" and will never win a game by himself. Brady Quinn hid a lot of faults of the team and we only now can appreciate that he was even better than his record.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:34 pm | #

Brady Quinn was the best, but don't write off Clausen yet. I agree he doesn't have the 'it' right now. But I would call that 'it' a running game.


He's been expected to win all by himself, without a run game. Is it Clausen's fault that the ND coaching staff have failed to develop an offensive line that can perform to even a 'so-so' level?

We all know that if ND could run the ball, the passing game would be set up so much better, so that Jimmy could deliver to gifted receivers such as Tate, Rudolph, Grimes, and Floyd when he's healthy.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 12:40 pm | #

I would argue that ND's OL was just as bad in 05 and 06 as now. The difference was Darius Walker. He could find holes in a crack and there were very few cracks those years so they had a running game.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:36 pm | #

Dylan,

Get real. You're the one who predicted ND would go 11-1 in the '07 campaign. E-L-E-V-E-N A-N-D O-N-E, D-Y-L-A-N-!-!-!-1 And here you are blaming Ty for this season's woes, claiming that the best Weis could hope for in his FOURTH year at the helm is a paltry 6-6 record. To quote John Stossel: Give me a break.
mars | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 1:49 pm | #

Not Lisa Horne.

Who is that? I'm still lost there.

Not Dennis Miller. Though I used to love him.

Not Bill Maher. Though I still enjoy him.

Just a dude on the West Coast who was on hand to watch a certain school (with no scholarships) finish a second consecutive 9-2 season with a win over a scholarship program.

And see both teams compete with 10 times the emotion, passion, discipline and pride that ND's Passive, Pussified Players often show.

And whose fault is that?

Can we clone Mike Anello?

This is not the NFL...
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:01 pm | #

I was very confused by Weis's comment in the post-game presser about "all three facets" bearing the blame of the 2nd half meltdown.

The offense, with their uncanny ability to put it away once they're inside the 30 yd line (3x in the 3rd qtr), are certainly to blame. And Weis was right in insisting that ND wouldn't have lost had the defense not allowed those last 2 drives. But he also pinned it on the special teams for "not making plays" to put the game away.

Mike Anello has a strip and a partial block on a punt, we have a 2nd blocked punt deep in Syracuse territory, and you can't pin the loss on Walker (his misses: 2 bad snap/holds and a 50+ yarder). I guess the snap/hold could be faulted, but over all I thought the special teams made a heck of a lot more plays than they gave up. The same can't be said of the O and D in the 2nd half.
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:06 pm | #

The problems we're seeing boils down to letting ND provide on the job training for inexperienced college-level coaches.

ND needs to get an *experienced* division 1 college HC; an *experienced* division 1 college OC; an *experienced* division 1 college DC.

Faust was a high school HC when he came to town; Davie was a DC when he became the HC; Weis was a pro OC when he became HC.

The only exception is Willingham who had mixed results as a college HC.

We need a proven college HC who has worked his way up the ranks and has made smaller schools play better than their collective talent... no more experimentation.

And please... no more extended contracts until the HC has been proven to be a good fit for the job.
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:11 pm | #

bpeters1,

Noticed that too. Unreal.

Yeah, your special teams block TWO punts and your defense forces a turnover and runs it back to within a shadow of the goal line.

And your Offense-what you are (allegedly) a Genius at running-gets THREE points out of that?

Just like your offense couldn't get a single TD in THREE OT periods against Wannstache.

But it's not your fault. Oh no. Of course not.

Loser. Grade A Loser.

In Complete CYA Mode now too.

And an earlier post was also spot on.

This program sold its soul long ago.

Maybe they can start running ads on Hammond's Mega Dome next season?

Or replace him with Mike Patrick? Now THAT guy could make even our stiffs look and sound good.

"What an AMAZING effort by Mighty Sam Young once again! When you hear him talk about "Syracuse just wanting it more than us" after the game, you just KNOW that he has the kind of ULTRA PREMIUM makeup that you want in your five-star, can't-miss, 330-pound MAN MOUNTAIN of a tackle. What an INCREDIBLE player on an INCREDIBLE team. Not only Can Charlie Weis coach like a mad man, but he knows how to recruit and develop WINNERS! EVERYONE gets a Gold Star!"
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 2:14 pm | #

..."The enduring image of the Weis era, in my opinion, will be that of an offensive lineman, standing, looking back at a running back or quarterback tackled three yards behind him. Looking like he's waiting for a bus."

... ...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:03 pm | #

Bill Cowher will pump up the Irish faithful!
thekid1430 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:04 pm | #

Pry Tom Coughlin away from the Giants. We need a tough son of a bitch like him. He was pretty succesful at BC.
thekid1430 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:07 pm | #

...I have never witnessed an offensive line that looked so inept...confused...wtf is going on...and has been going on over the last two years...at least the last two years?...

..combine the offensive line mediocrity with mediocre running backs...and you have the opposing team teeing off on any passing "attack"...a quarterback that, like his QB coach...has "happy feet" on every passing play...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:19 pm | #

mars,

Re-read the post. It should obviate the need for all caps.
Dylan | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 3:53 pm | #

Dylan:

Love the numerology but here's a number you missed: zero. That's the number of blocks Charlie Weis missed; the number of ball carriers he let slip away; and the number of pass coverages he blew. Bottom line Weis is arrogant and definitely no Nick Saban, but he can coach. The problem lies with the talent--or lack thereof --and the woeful execution. "Slow" and "soft" seems to describe this team as well as any two words, and you can't blame Charlie for genetics or how their mommas raised them.
MESPO727272 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 4:12 pm | #

I think I've wrote this about five times but I'll say it again. The offensive line is the problem and has been the problem since Weis was hired. Whether it's communication between Weis/Haywood/Latina on blocking schemes or Latina just simply can't coach, the offensive line is the problem. If the line were able to get the job done these other problems (defense, play calling, stupid penalties) wouldn't hurt as bad. I bet if you look at the top ten programs you'll find that they have the same problems that we do but they overcome them because they are able to move the ball with great consistency. That being said it is CW's job to fix that problem. Long story short: Weis could still be succesful but only if the OL starts playing great. Comments?
bobby | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 4:42 pm | #

I don't think he is incompetent, like Ty Willingham.

Wow. Really? Charlie Weis has lost 15 straight to teams that finished with winning records.

Now, throw in the fact that he's now starting to lose to horrible teams (how close was that San Diego State game, fellas) and you tell me that he's not incompetent.

Blaming Ty for Charlie's results is over.
wildhog | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 4:48 pm | #

No doubt it all boils down to the O-line.

And no doubt Weis has no idea what goes into good O-line play.

Syracuse had only allowed two teams to rush for UNDER 200 YARDS all year going into yesterday.

And the previous "low"? FBS Northeastern. With 91.

Weis' All-Day Tough Guys managed 41. Incredible.

And back-to-back holding calls and a sack of the QB led to a punt on THIRD AND FORTY--after starting a drive at the opponents' five, I believe.

Wow.

There are no words.
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 5:35 pm | #

Sorry, Fourth and Forty. Was second and 47 before he called a flat pass that went for 7 yards.

Unreal.
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 5:35 pm | #

bobby:

Your're right they are terrible and #74 may just be the worst starting O-lineman I have seen at the D1 level and I've seen plenty. But that's only the most obvious flaw, how about that utter lack of speed on defense and in the offensive backfield?
MESPO727272 | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 5:47 pm | #

Go IRISH, make USC our Bowl Game.
Subway Alumni

Not that SC needs it but that just gave them the game if ND is going to treat it like a bowl game.. that was the worst thing that they could do
Fiji4Free | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 6:38 pm | #

Two names I would like to throw out there for consideration...

1. Joker Philips- someone help me out I thnk he is the OC at Kentucky, and fomer Holtz assistant.

2. Charlie Strong- fomer ND assistant, and I believe he is still with Florida.

These guys have been around the College game for so long, they both know Notre Dame and good continue with the recruiting.
JBell | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 7:55 pm | #

I just looked up Joker Philips he is to be named future coach at Kentucky, when Rick Brook steps down at Kentucky. I guess I can take Philips off my list.
JBell | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 8:02 pm | #

Before the Navy game I was surprised people were saying Weis needed to beat Navy to stay. Sure, we had lost some games we should have won (North Carolina, Pitt), but we were in those games and felt it was a reflection of young players learning how to win. BC was just a stinker, but you get one of those a year, and BC has shown since that they are pretty good.

But the end of the Navy game was embarrassing (and not because it was Navy at all). ND should have won by 20. Then the Syracuse debacle. Weis is simply a bad game coach. The pattern is that we cannot finish games. Right now, everyone is talking about Brian Kelly (of Cincinnati) for the Tennessee job. I am not one of these people who thinks ND is a more attractive job than it is. Rather, I really do think Kelly, whose coaching roots are in this part of the country, would be interested. He is a proven winner everywhere he has been (Grand Valley, Central Michigan, and Cincinnati), places where it is not easy to be great.

If the recruiting rankings are even close to accurate, we have the players and just need a head coach who can make them win. I think we should take a run at Kelly when he is already being pursued.
Geoff | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 8:15 pm | #

I need to ask the question...what is so bad about Greg Schiano of Rutgers? I think he has done a pretty darn good job at a school that is not a football powerhouse and is a coach with a lot of upside to him.

Am I missing something about him that other people know?
knoxville irish | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 9:09 pm | #

Local Cinti sportswriter believes Brian Kelly is too "east coast liberal" to like it at TN. Don't know that he hails from the east coast, per se, but they did say during the UC game last night that he was a poli sci major who worked on the Gary Hart campaign years ago. Maybe he'll hold out for ND, even if it takes a year. DuLac is probably a more liberal campus (faculty at least) than UT, much less annoying fight song, you don't get upstaged by Women's BB and closer to his Michigan roots.
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:32 pm | #

I haven't missed a ND game in 50 years -- mostly radio in the early days then TV.

I thouhght we had the "man". On the post game interviews he can't fess up to the fact that Coaching on both sides of the ball suck. "kamara has an in-grown toenail, the angle of the sun was a problem on third and two.

Say it Charie, "I suck, but I will not leave until I am fired and even will bring the program down even further with me if I have to.

What an abyssmal disaster!
Larry V | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 10:36 pm | #

To borrow a comment from another thread here on BGS: Want a real College Coach? Check out...

http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/ sport...in_chuck00.html

'nuff said.
Karamazov | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:17 pm | #

For some reason the link did not copy completely, sorry. I'll try it again.

http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/ sport...in_chuck00.html
Karamazov | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:21 pm | #

Anyway. Grand Valley State Head Coach, Chuck Martin. A proven winner. I would swap Chucks in a heartbeat. The man knows how to inspire college kids to play to their potential, with heart. My two cents.
Karamazov | Email | Homepage | 11.23.08 - 11:27 pm | #

Karamazov:

You're really suggesting a D2 coach for the job, Isn't one Gerry Faust enough? If you want inspiration watch a Rocky movie; if you want a coach go get Pete Carroll or Nick Saban.
mespo727272 | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 12:13 am | #

ND needs to fire CW next Sunday and hire a coach who has been head coach and has won - with the coin they are willing to pay now, they can get a decent coach. A decent coach with these kids will equal a solid team. CW's teams are as incompetent as any in D-1 football. Have you ever seen a team at that level that simply cannot get one yard on 3rd or 4th and one - it is so bad.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 12:39 am | #

They need to be ocncerned with the buyout amount. However, they would make up a lot of it if not all of it in sales of football paraphernalia. People buy a lot more when the team is good. If they keep him, ND will not be good for 6 more years.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 1:39 am | #

Jeff Jagodzinski for the win
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 2:21 am | #

A Long List Of Ten Things Everyone Here Should Keep In Mind:

1. The "conventional wisdom" is not right about Charlie Weis. The conventional wisdom is never right about anything, only lucky. We were supposed to suck all the way until now. Everyone came into the Charlie Weis Era fully expecting a four-to-five-year recovery from the gaping hole that Tyrone Willingham had left. Do you forget the Mark Mays and Lee Corsos of the world predicting a 1-5 start for the 2005 Irish, perhaps even 0-6, as payback for the negative karma we had accrued from our "racist" decision to shitcan Ty?

2. Charlie Weis, to his credit, refused those low expectations and set a very high bar for himself and this team. For the next two years, although "9-3 Is Not Good Enough," I think we can say with confidence that those two teams overachieved.

3. This record was not because Tyrone Willingham was so awesome (though I argued at the time that he got a raw deal, ignorant as I was about the inevitable quicksand of his future non-recruiting). These results were due, at least in part, to Charlie Weis's coaching. They must. How else do you explain the difference? Brady Quinn had potential the day Ty was shown the door, but he wasn't the golden-armed wunderkind he would eventually grow into. They went from 6-6 to 9-3. They went from losing, and losing badly, to winning or at least staying competitive (don't get ahead of me here). It didn't just rain pixie dust in South Bend in 2005 and 2006. Something happened to change that.

4. That said, those good records were somewhat deceiving. That team was a Frankenstein's monster comprised of Brady Quinn's arm, Jeff Samardzija's hands, Trevor Laws' heart and Tom Zbikowski's balls. The rest of them, sad to say, might as well have been plucked from the interhall squad. Need I remind you one of our running backs had to be converted to a linebacker? They were exposed every time they played any team with talent save once, that legendary contest where all their honor and sheer unadulterated chutzpah came inches short of a miracle. I don't care that they weren't that great a team, in the cold gaze of hindsight; God bless every last one of 'em. I've still never been prouder of a ND team, and I suspect many of you would say the same. Movies should be made about that team and that game.

5. Now all the parts of that bizarre rube-goldberg slapdash squad are gone, and there's no gem-worthy players, especially in the upper classes. Take a look at the Observer profile of the senior class that Pat posted last Friday: you'll find 22 seniors. These were the final guys Ty recruited who, thankfully, didn't jump ship after he was fired. Except that seven of them — nearly one-third — walked on. Another one has almost exclusively been on the show team, two more have been stuck behind others on the depth chart, and Paul Duncan was injured midway through the year. That's half the senior class who sees the field roughly as often as Charlie Weis sees a bowl of salad. You find me a top-caliber team who relies almost exclusively on freshmen and sophomores to make all their plays. I know, I know, youth is a weak cop-out, and I'm really sick of playing that card, but a tired argument isn't the same as a refuted argument.

6. Now we're getting to the real guts of the problem. Charlie Weis is, by all accounts, exceptional at finding the right mines, and he seems to be pretty good at taking finished diamonds and polishing them for market, but it's the hardening and cutting and shaping that seems to be eluding him. He can find Jimmy Clausen, and he can turn Brady Quinn into a first-round draft pick; but it doesn't look like he can build the bridge between them. This may be his undoing: he may be a Ron Zook, someone who can pick 'em but not coach 'em up. He also may yet learn how, or be able to delegate those responsibilities to a talented staff of assistants, the very role Weis played in Foxboro (assuming he can bring them). Anyone here who says that Charlie Weis cannot accomplish this, quite frankly, doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. You don't. Crucially, though, anyone who says that Charlie Weis will accomplish this also doesn't know what they're talking about. If we did, why, we'd be coaching, wouldn't we?

7. We've just come off a loss to Syracuse, and barring a succession of miracles even longer and more earth-shattering than the men of Troy had in '05, we'll lose to USC and finish the game 6-6. Remind you of anything? Why, that sounds like Ty's teams, as Dylan noted in this post. Like I said, don't get ahead of me: given the looming waterfall the program was headed for unless Willingham was tossed overboard — a fate so certain that The Powers That Be took the extraordinary step of dispatching him two full seasons before most other coaches' dismissals — being roughly where we were four years ago is, in fact, no minor accomplishment.

8. Admittedly, that's a very low bar to set, well below where even Charlie Weis thought we would be. But I will also probably not be winning a gold medal in the London Olympics four years from now, no matter how hard I train. Setting great expectations is fine, but at a certain level they must be reasonable. Did/Will we win a championship within the first four-to-five years of Charlie Weis's tenure? No, but be honest: did you really expect one? If the answer is yes, then it's long past time to be honest about something else: you are part of the problem, and not part of the solution. Your continued insistence on expecting Jesus Christ in a cup and then throwing a tantrum when you don't get it is part of the reason why no coach in his right mind will come here (as far as that goes, we set unreasonable expectations: Weis was supposedly a good hire was because he understood the pro game, but now we need a coach who understands the college game . . . does this make any sense?). Why did we settle for Davie, Willingham and Weis? What makes any of you delusional freaks think guys like Mike Leach or — are you kidding me? — Urban Meyer will leave the comfort of their paradises to shipwreck themselves with you gibbering monkeys?

9. There are certain things money can't buy, and at a certain level throwing money at the problem seems contrary to what this University stands for. Assuming Charlie is done, if we have to get someone, then we shouldn't want him. What are we going to do when everyone turns us down, again? Start kidnapping them? What?

10. Far too many people here, from the strutting peacocks displaying full plumes of righteous anger and know-it-all smartassery to the drive-by trolls who don't have enough pride in their own teams to leave us alone, are flinging around words like "humiliating" and "embarrassing." You can be humiliated all you want; I don't care. Just know that you embarrass me. I have worn The Shirt with pride in the mouth of lion's dens in the state of Michigan and in neutral sites as far away as New York and Las Vegas. I have never, not once, been embarrassed by the men who put on helmets made of gold and soldier up for Our Lady's University. Just having done it even once will earn you a handshake and a beer anywhere you meet me; hell, it'll get you a hug if you don't mind sacrificing a little dignity. I wish I could have done it, just once. I wish I had the heart and the balls and the drive to put that kind of effort into something like that, but sadly we are what God made us and I have a loud mouth and a fat ass. I am just a fan, and I will be until six men in suits lower me into the ground.

And as a fan, please hear me when I tell you that some of you — if you have to ask if you're one of them, then you probably are — need to shut the hell up. Please. You are not helping. I understand the frustration, but frustration is not an excuse for . . . well, let's call it throwing lingual snowballs, since I don't feel like elaborating further. You dicks are what make me hesitate before I slip on The Shirt that I wear because I'm unworthy of the uniform. You assholes are what people hate when they hate us. We lost a game. Tough shit. It happens. Yes, even at ND. Sometimes we lose three or six or nine games in one year. Tough shit; that happens sometimes, too. But you morons are starting to seriously lose your minds, and it's starting to seriously piss me off.

Regardless of whether or not Charlie Weis stays or goes, you need to work on your attitudes. In the long run it will be you and not Charlie Weis who determines the health of this program. It's already helped get us to this point by shutting us out of getting some coaches, or do you think Urban Meyer turned us down because of South Bend's weather? And if your bile and vitriol help get Charlie Weis thrown under the bus like Tyrone Willingham (even though I begrudgingly admit that you were right and I was wrong about Ty), what then? What will sate you now that you want bloodshed so much? Blood? Glory? At what cost?

Dylan opened this post with a reference to Karl Marx, but I'm wondering if the French Revolution might not have been a more appropriate historical allusion. How about a little more reason and a lot less guillotine, huh boys?
INCITEmarsh/Mike Marchand '01 | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 3:46 am | #

If you could not talk about the neutral site officials or bad calls. That might have been an issue say in 1993, the last time Notre Dame was a good football team. This is coming from a life-long fan so don't think im just some hater. We are the Chicago Cubs of college football. If the money and fans keep rolling in regardless of performance (aka Wrigely Field and the bleacher bums), then you cant expect there to be a different outcome. You want to send a statement- stop going to games and buying jackets jerseys etc. Then will see how fast the program turns around.
joe england | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 6:09 am | #

Amen to ND leading NCAA reform for the officiating system. Or at least reform it for ND in the interest of self preservation.... Could some sort of petition be started?

Amen to replacing the NBC announcers. Could some sort of petition be started that stated the only demographic that actually watches the ND broadcasts (alum) will not watch until these jokers are removed?

So, Thanks Dylan. Spot on article.
Jimmy Two-Times | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 8:53 am | #

Good post Mike. Agree completely.
Adam B. | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 10:06 am | #

two things.

1)first blocked punt, 1st & 10 on 23. 1st play, allen 17 yds to the 6. um, no, holding, 1st & 20. next play, qb sack to the 47. farcical. 2 more ineffective plays and we punt. way to squander a coffin nail. this is not cw's fault, save for the fact that he's run the offense for last 2 games, and carries himself as offensive swami.

2)not sure when this occured, but swing pass good for 52 yds. again, no, holding. seems like every big play we have is marred by a penalty, on both sides of the ball. almost statistically impossible. yet the catch by tate for a non-touchdown was EXACTLY the same catch as the end of the navy game. don't want to sound like a homer, but why no calls ever? it's almost like cw has pissed off every officiating crew in the land.

actually, i have lots more on my mind, but it's already been said, and those seem to be the only things not brought up very often.
yz | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 10:36 am | #

Mike Marchand '01

Finally, a post that gets describes how I feel.

Thanks.
Tennessee Domer 78 | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 12:37 pm | #

On Urban head coaching at Notre Dame:

It won't happen. His wife has no desire to live in South Bend again.

Ask Urban's sisters, Gigi and Erika, and they'll tell you the same. (They live and work here in Cincinnati.)

Cheers.

My opinion(s):
1. Syracuse game was a disgrace.
2. Might as well keep Weis an additional year - see what next year's record and recruiting class turn out to be. Plus, coaching carousels are bad news.
3. Throwing snowballs is bad.
Cincinnati Domer '06 | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 1:51 pm | #

Karl,

I'm a Syracuse fan who always roots for Notre Dame, unless they are playing SU. I was also at South Bend and saw the game in person.

Basically, I agree with everything you said and it's clearly time for Charlie Wei$$ to go. There is just no way ND should have lost to Syracuse, who have been so bad this year, I have yet to stay for an entire game (I missed the Louisville game).

However, I must get on you for your complaints about the officiating. From my vantage point, the penalities were 7 for SU for 50 yards, compared with 5 for ND for 50 yards. As bad a call as the pass interference on the SU tight end was for ND, the no-call on the obviously push in the back from Golden tate to GIVE ND the lead before half was definitely the worse call of the game.

All of your other points were right on. Rather than complain about the officiating, stay focused on the fact that an ND team with a solid Head Coach would have never allowed 2-8 Syracuse team to come back from a 13 point deficit, entering the 4th quarter in South Bend.
Patrick Conole | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 4:18 pm | #

Immediately re-negotiate contracts? Call for clarification of a rule that applies to everyone? "Demand" that ND have a say in the broadcasting team?

If those things are signs of a hand on the rudder then hand me a life preserver, please. Swarbick could do all of this (except "immediately" re-negotiate anything--why would conferences do this?), but it wouldn't serve any purpose but to reinforce the national perception of ND as an arrogant institution out of touch with the reality of its place in the current college football landscape. You're right: the whole place IS on fire; why waste time complaining about the pattern on the burning wallpaper?

I do strongly agree with your comment about bad hires being just as expensive (if not more) than good. Don't be afraid to pay for a qualified, experienced college coach this time.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.24.08 - 8:50 pm | #

dylan - all your points (including officiating) were dead on. just because a guy can coach on the pro level does not mean he's able to coach on the college level. aside from any skills weis may be lacking, he is completely unable to instill any passion in his team. the excitement is gone.
any thoughts on leach (texas tech)? his contract is up this year.
murph | Email | Homepage | 11.25.08 - 8:39 am | #

You're absolutely correct. Very good analysis. Weis needs to be fired, and FOR CAUSE. Roll the dice on a lawsuit and don't buy him out.
Mike Quinn | Email | Homepage | 11.25.08 - 4:12 pm | #

Right right, Ty is also responsible for the Sudan crisis, the Middle East Crisis, the Iraq crisis, the Holocaust, the Rape of Nanking, North Korea getting nuclear power, etc, etc.
Face it. Ty might have faltered in recruiting, but whoever the hell ND has is royalty compared to the table scraps Navy and Air Force are getting.
OG | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 10:39 pm | #