Best of luck to Zach wherever he goes.
Ryan | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 11:23 am | #

What a shame. I'm going to miss him. He was one of our first "big time" recruits if I recall correctly. I really was pulling for him. Oh well, good luck wherever he lands. I hope he does really well.
Loretta | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 12:08 pm | #

What a class act. This is the downside of "loading up" on talented football players. I hope Zach has mega success wherever he goes.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 12:18 pm | #

"Frazer's name has been tossed around as a possible transfer since the Irish recruited Jones and Clausen."

I don't see how this is possible, since Jones was in the same recruiting class as Frazer, and Charlie told both of them that there was a good chance he would be landing a top QB in the next class. In fact, if I remember correctly, Mitch Mustain came back to the Irish after committing to Arkansas (now going to USC), but Charlie wouldn't take him into the mix because of his promise to Jones and Frazer that they would be the only QB's in the '06 recruiting class, and CW would only take 1 QB in the '07 class.
Domer97 | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 12:26 pm | #

It is so good to see a high caliber player who does not bitch and moan because he didn't get what he wanted. Zach poured a lot of time into ND and (against the old adage) his hard work did not payoff. At least not tellingly at ND. This kind of attitude almost assures him success wherever he goes. Best to you Zach. I hope we hear MUCH more about your success and how you handle your disappointments!
PSUDavid-NDFan | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 1:04 pm | #

Zach Frazer and his family are all about class. Here is hoping that you land at a great school, Zach, get a great education and start for three years and tear them up. The unfortunate thing about this is that Zach didnt have the experience of Evan, the athleticism of Demetrius or the polish of Jimmy. He was a big time catch of us and generated a lot of excitement. Might I suggest South Carolina, Zach, Spurrier would be an excellent coach for you. God Bless you, and best of luck in your future endeavors.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 1:39 pm | #

So much for the predictive powers of NCAA Football 2007. In my dynasty, Zach was the starter this year and threw for a ton of touchdowns (though Demetrius was the hero of a come-from-behind victory in the rain at Michigan). Plus Darius won the Heisman.
Jeff | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 1:42 pm | #

If Zach does decide to transfer, best of luck to him. It might not have worked out at Notre Dame, but hopefully he can still enjoy success elsewhere.
ND Alum | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 1:43 pm | #

I'm actually fairly surprised that he is wants to transfer. I don't really see DD fitting the mold of a Weis QB, and think he will probably see the field more as a WR, much in the same way as Arnaz a couple of years ago. Sharpley, while having the most experience, is clearly a career back-up and won't see the field unless things get really bad. So that leaves JC, who isn't built nearly as thick as Quinn was in his freshman year, and has just as bad if not worse O-line in front of him as Quinn did. Frazer is really only an injury or two away from starting and possibly grabbing the top spot and holding on to it. He could also be transferring because he also notices what Weis and the coaches saw, ie that he didn't pick up the offense that well, or lead and manage the team efficiently, so he wouldn't be a good fit at ND. If he thought he had the right stuff, I would hope that he would consider sticking around to prove the coaches wrong.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 1:59 pm | #

Why is it that when a QB doesn't get named starter there is always transfer talk? How about you stay committed to the school and the friends you made and stick it out. You never know what is going to happen to the other QB's. I know coaches switch schools all the time, but you commit to the school, not the coach.
The Butobi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 2:26 pm | #

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but... I want to see him at Alabama. Why you may ask, have you sold your soul to the Great Satan, I mean Saban, or just forgotten to pass the bong one too many times?

My reasoning is this - Alabama may be poised to be the biggest thorn in the side of Urban Liar during his remaining tenure with the "Fightin' Gators" (why does that make me throw up just a little?). Anyway, Saban is sure to get good recruits and with Alabama strong over the next 4-6 years, along with LSU and the ever-wily Ole Ball Coach, it will be next to impossible to run the table and hard as hell to escape the SEC with less than 2 losses. Thus, Zach Frazer could help insure Urbie never sniffs the NC game again, and that would be a very nice legacy indeed. That and I think he would have a legit shot at a nice pro contract and we would never have to face him in the future (see, its not all about the hate).
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 2:54 pm | #

So unless you're the starter you just leave? If that's the case, go to a less competitve school in the first place.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 2:59 pm | #

These kids want to play. He knew his back was against the wall with Clausen coming in this year. Now with Crist coming in next year he probably feels that he may never play. I don't blame him for transeferring to a school where he can play for three years. I believe he will talk to Charlie if he already hasnt and whatever happens in that conversation will be a deciding factor. Don't diss the kid for wanting a chance to play, it was a fair competition and if he feels he will be wasting away, it is better to go somewhere and play.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 3:04 pm | #

Don't hate the kid for considering a transfer. His spot at the bottom of the depth chart is less about his talent and more about the glut of players we have at the position. Frazer's a talented quarterback who we were all very excited about when he committed, and he has every right to do everything he can to turn his God-given abilities into a very healthy livelihood.

Loyalty to your friends and a school are all well and good, but we're talking about a kid with NFL aspirations, and he won't get any closer to that sitting on our bench.

Also, it doesn't really look like that bench is going to get any less crowded anytime soon. Get used to this "Should he stay or should he go" debate coming up yearly.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:06 pm | #

Domer97 - Its not only possible, but its true. The moment DD committed, folks started talking about which one would transfer after their freshman year. When Mustain was mentioned, folks started talking about who would decommit. Once Clausen gave a verbal, the talk intensified.

Loretta - you are right, he was Weis' first big recruit, and the third recruit of his first full class after Prince and Gallup. He was just the second four-star player to verbal to Weis (a number which is up to about 40 now).

Good luck to Zach wherever he goes.
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:26 pm | #

Zach has handled everything at Notre Dame with extreme class and I can't blame him if he wants to transfer in order to get playing time.

I hope he stays though and gets his degree and continues to learn under all the QB's and Weis...from what I have heard it is a good working environment and I would think injuries could suddenly put him into the backup role.

Good luck though whatever his decision.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:39 pm | #

OK, this may be a stupid question, but why is Demetrius Jones referred to as "DD"? Wouldn't "DJ" be more fitting? It's just something I'd like to know so I don't feel quite so stupid.
rew | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:43 pm | #

danger is his middle name
fred | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:52 pm | #

DD was the nickname given to Demetrius by his late Grandma. DD= "Double Disaster".
mickey | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 5:05 pm | #

I just want to ad my $0.02 and re-iterate what others above have said.

I have always been impressed with the class that Zach and his family have shown. I wish him the best whichever direction he choses.

Hopefully, the situation will not turn into a Mustain Made for TV reality drama.

Good luck Zach.

Now, on to pure speculation . . . what if Clausen starts and goes to the NFL after 2 seasons, would Zach be better than Dayne? OK, nevermind, I withdraw the crazy question.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 5:32 pm | #

I think quarterback is the one position that benefits playing all four years. I dont think Clausen can get much better tuteledge in the pros than Charlie can give him. Just look at Brady after two years.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 5:53 pm | #

From a personal standpoint, I wish Frazer wouldn't go. He's a kid that got on board with ND very early, was a splash of a recruiting land that helped get the ball rolling, and has been nothing but a class act, keeping his name amongst the headlines for all the right reasons. How could you not like that equation?

But to want him to stay on the depth chart for some kind of "what if" scenario would be too selfish for my taste. For football reasons, I wish him well if the right opportunity comes along. If he knocks on someone's door, and he finds a legitimate opportunity to fulfill his dream of playing QB at a DI school, then I want him to jump at that chance. He wants to play, not to be someone's "almost good enough" guy. It would be extremely greedy to have sour grapes about him leaving, particularly a year from now, when Crist joins. Frankly, the cupboard is overstocked - we pretty much all knew that was coming when we signed 2 QB's in the same season.

Lets not forget that a potential transfer opens the door to another kid. Without saying too much, I think that would be better than having a guy on the team who has doubts about his place at Notre Dame.

This very scenario is why Charlie didn't keep his derby a complete mystery 'til GT's kickoff. Yes, some of it is the competitive edge from the element of surprise, perhaps revealing a starter late in camp/the day before. But handling this kind of situation properly will only establish credibility with current and future Notre Dame players. He easily could have handcuffed Frazer, by keeping his thoughts/assessments to himself, and could have justified it under the auspices of "wanting to see if he could show me something". But Weis is giving him a chance to reassess his options, and weigh what ultimately matters most to him. And trust me, recruits pay attention to that kind of thing.
Carl | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 6:00 pm | #

Remember though, I think Clausen is a little bit older than the normal freshman. Physiologically, he's the same as the other guys.

Hence, if Clausen starts this year (which I expect he eventually will do), I can't see him staying past his junior football season.

Brady Quinn wouldn't have done that had CW been with ND for his 1rst 2 seasons.

Seriously, whomever starts, I expect 2500 yards passing, 25-57 TDs and 10-12 interceptions this year. Remember, we ARE talking about a Coach Weis coached QB.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 6:16 pm | #

the real questionis, who's going to catch all of those TDs?
tyler | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 6:35 pm | #

rew -- you're not the only one who was wondering about that!!
Eddie | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 8:09 pm | #

Wasn't there some guy way down on the depth charts in the 70's who ended up having a good career at ND, including one NC, followed by a bunch of Super Bowl rings? Montana or something? A lesson in there for Zach?
jmac | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 8:38 pm | #

i wish him the best. its the right thing to do, especially be buried in the depth chart and with crist coming in. i hope he transfers to my alma mater IU, that would be sweet. not that i love IU as much as i do ND, but because i would like them to not be a complete joke.

then again, after seeing lovecchio for two years, maybe i should be careful what i wish for.
Schultz | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 9:05 pm | #

I'd like to see Zack at Northwestern. Another Zack, i.e., Zack Kustok, transfered out of ND to NU under similar circumstances and had a very impressive college career. NU is good academically and needs all the help it can get on the football field.

Best of luck Zack.
Don E. Brook | Email | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 11:22 pm | #

I could see Tennessee being a good fit, at least football wise. I think ZF could step up and start there. Plus, there is good coaching in place with Cutliffe. The problem with UT would be that he would be joining another QB derby and may end up losing again. Oh, and it's UT.

I was going to post this a few articles down under the post about the Michigan series, but the conversation there is dying, so I'm going to do it here. It may not do much for exposure in other parts of the country, like White is trying get int the "Mini Bowl Games", but a neutral site game with Wisconsin in Chicago would be absolutely kick-ass, in my opinion.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 12:23 am | #

haha. way down in the depth charts jmac? He was 2nd string and got put in by Devine whenever the starter was blowing the game. hope you were joking.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 12:23 am | #

Put yourself in Zach's shoes.

He sees the writing on the wall. He has 3-4 years of eligibility left, but the competition will only get stiffer. The kids ahead of him will gain valuable experience while he runs the scout team, and fresh talent will arrive each year to bury him further. If he wants to play - if he even wants a shot at the big time - he has to go somewhere else.

Why should we expect anything less? He wants to lead, he has high expectations, and he wants to prove himself. Best of luck to Zach Frazer. Let's hope he tears up the record books wherever he goes.
lyle | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 4:31 am | #

"If" he transferred it seems to me Tenn would be the most logical choice. Coach Cutcliffe is OC there. #1 He is using elements from the Weise playbook that Zach is familiar with.
#2 Don't forget when he was ND QB Coach it was said thatindependently Weis and Coach Cut thought Zach was the best.
#3 There must have been some friendly chatter between the two prior to Cut's resigning.
Sir John | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 6:59 am | #

Anonymous, Montana actually was at one time below Rusty Lisch and Gary Forystek....see 1977 Purdue
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 7:33 am | #

So... what I haven't heard in the above posts is Tommy Brady's experience as the oft reported "6th backup" at UM. If Zach were to learn from that example and stick with the program, he too, might be able to find an NFL home, regardless of current status.

And what if DD is out after the incident with pot? Remember, charges WERE filed...

Speculating, Charlie is working behind the scenes to figure out what to do with this, otherwise he would have named two and only two QB's for fall. Could it be that Charlie knows a lot more than we do? You Bet!

Regardless of the outcome, the collective ND family wishes Zach the best!
ND_Dad | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:53 am | #

Zach lived on my floor this year and, especially during the second semester, I hung out with him every day.

He NEVER liked to talk about football, so the communication we are geting from his dad is somewhat surprising. He signed up to live on the same floor of our dorm again and brought Dan Wenger into the dorm from Carroll to live with him. Zach is also good friends with most of the offensive linemen.

He is supposed to come to ND this summer to take Theology and Philosophy courses in mid-June. Obviously if he does not show up, he's gone. Make no mistake, he loves ND. His license plate reads "PLACT."

Needless to say, he was a ton of fun on our floor this year. His booming QB voice could be heard from rooms away while he shouted at the TV playing videogames. He never gave off the "I'm a football player and much more important/cooler than you" vibe, took part in dorm events, and even joined our prank wars.

If he transfers, I will instantly become a fan of whatever school he goes to (EVEN if it is a chief rival of ND, and let me tell you I HATE Fredo and USC). Most of all, I will definitely miss seeing him around next year if he goes elsewhere. You all have him pinned: great guy, class act. Notre Dame should feel privileged to have had him.
Bob | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:09 am | #

I'm confused about the eligibility issue here if Frazer does actually transfer. Since he sat out this past season (red shirt?), why wouldn't he have 4 years of eligibility left if he went to another D-1 school? If ND gives him a release does he still have to sit out? If you are CW do you give Zach a release with the stipulation that he can't transfer to a future opponent or do you leave it wide open for Zach to choose from?
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:10 am | #

I'm curious about the Rutgers reference.. is there any chance of him going to RU? let me rephrase, any rumors of him talking to RU?
VAMAN | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:27 am | #

knoxville "IF" he transfers again i think Tenn leads if they have his educational needed programs? Coach Cut left on a high note so as not to take disability leave, and harm the program at ND. He did state there would be those who felt him foolish leaving ND's opportunity. He left on good cred, so is still close to ND. Again he has utilized much of Weis playbook in his new job. Something Zach would not have to 're learn.' If zach went to say north western he would have to re learn entirely new systems. He in turn knows Coach Cut from the past and would not have to build a relationship. I think if transferring this is the place I would go to, Tenn.
Sir John | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:32 am | #

No joke anonymous: "as a homesick freshman Montana may have had lingering doubts about his decision-making skills when he calculated that he was the Fighting Irish's seventh-string quarterback--barely." And he was still third string in 1977 until saving the Purdue game. But you know everything.
jmac | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:48 am | #

More on Montana. Not only was he third string at the start of the 1977 season, he didn't see action until the Purdue game, the third game of the season. The first two games of that season the offense was lackluster. In the opener against Pitt it helped that the Pitt quarterback went out with an injury (Matt Cavanaugh I think), then there was the loss to Ole Miss in a game played in Jackson. Finally, almost in desperation, Coach Devine inserted Montana late in the Purdue game. Montana led the Irish to a comeback win, and the Irish finally started to perform up to all the preseason expectations.

The 1977 season was Montana's fourth season at Notre Dame. Although I don't think Notre Dame used this terminology, he was a redshirt junior. Montana missed the 1976 season with an injury (a separated shoulder I believe). During the 1975 season he led the Irish to comeback wins against Air Force and North Carolina. In the Air Force game the Irish were down 30-10 and came back to win 31-30. So, Montana both enjoyed some success and faced some adversity before his storybook 1977 and 1978 seasons.

In those years before ESPN and when the NCAA still controlled college football on television, I listened to most of those games on WCFL, AM1000 out of Chicago. If I remember right, the game broadcasts were sponsored by the Chicago Plasterer's Union.
farmboy | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 11:29 am | #

To Knoxville Irish. Athletes have 5 years to complete their 4 years of eligibility. If Zach transfers to a Div I BCS Division (formerly Div 1A) school he will have to sit out a year. That's two years of school so he will have only 3 years of eligibility. He can always petition for another year.

Seen transfers work and not. LoVechhio could/would have been the starter instead of Quinn if he stuck around. Instead he had a pretty rough go of it. Others like Graham Kent became NFL starters.

Wish Zach well either way - sounds like a good guy from a good family.
OldFan | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 2:49 pm | #

Wow. Just . . . wow. I just feel lucky to have read that last comment before it gets deleted.
Robb | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 3:59 pm | #

jim Dougherty –
Jim, when you sober up…
Think hard about taking a typing class, a grammar class, an e-mail etiquette course, and try and find your common sense and good taste.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 4:15 pm | #

Right on Robb, that is a BGS insta-classic.... that is, in the sense that watching Babaro's leg explode or the Hindenburg crash to earth were insta-classics.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 4:25 pm | #

I didnt think that Cutcliffe was around when Zach was recruited or committed. Cutcliffe was gone soon after spring practice Weis' first year and Zach committed in the spring after Weis's first year. I really dont know how much communication that Zach had with Cutcliffe, Peter Vaas was the QB coach when Zach committed. Personally, as much as I dislike him, I think that Spurrier would be an excellent fit for Zach. I believe the only way you can petition for a 6th year is if you have an injury that keeps you out one year and you didnt get a chance to play 4 in 5. I am sure that Charlie knows what is going on with Zach.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 8:59 pm | #

ok... i take it the comment has been deleted before i read it. damn
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:01 pm | #

Didnt Zach also sit out his senior year with an injury. I believe that Charlie used his junior year film to evaluate him. I may be wrong about this.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:03 pm | #

wait a second... there it is in all its glory. I guess I should have refreshed the page before before posting a comment.

bravo jim. that´s some terrible writing
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:05 pm | #

i love it
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:28 pm | #

Just saw the Athlons preview...ND is 38. They have Zibby as a 1st team All American...Carlson too.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 9:53 pm | #

Yeah, everybody has had a few guys stagger in like dougherty. Smart, but completely blotched.
Judge60 | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:07 pm | #

Is Ed Orgeron now posting on this site? As Nemo once said, "I just know he's trying to tell us something."
Don E. Brook | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:19 pm | #

Hell Dan Devine didnt even coach in 1983. I dont remember Art Best in '75 when we did play BC for the first time...and you need to quit posting.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:25 pm | #

To whomever asked; Rutgers is improbable. If Frazer were to use the remaining 3 years of eligibility (again, assuming he decides to transfer) that 3rd year he could feasibly start against ND - we re-initiate the series that year. Weis would never live that one down, if we were to lose to Rutgers, and an ex-ND player.

There are a lot of logical landing spots, but most of the schools he looked at while recruited were east coast. Not to eliminate it, but Tennessee may not be the ideal landing spot, for geographical reasons. It looks like he picked ND over PSU and Syracuse. Things may have changed since then, but those would be two worth looking at. But there are a lot of ways he could go with it.
Carl | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 1:34 am | #

Jim Dougherty,

I thought that Art Best transferred from Notre Dame to Kent State where he rushed for a 1000+ yards. In fact he did, he left ND after 1973 when the scandal involving, Browner, Hunter and Fry and Bradley occured. I believe that Best was implicated in that also.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 7:50 am | #

I have a new favorite poster. Man this site gets better with every passing day. Who needs the "main" content when we have contributors like this?

PS: Jim, do you have any inside info on whether the "tornado" damage to the Basilica was actually caused by a wrathful God sending a warning to ND about its transgressions re the pot double-standard?
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 1:27 pm | #

I'm glad someone here can read Jim's posts, I can't get past line 3.
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 1:50 pm | #

No way is this Jim Dougherty for real...his ramblings are completely incoherent.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 3:45 pm | #

He's real, but he's not posting here anymore until he learns to spell and communicate above a 1st grade level.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 4:06 pm | #

Phew, that's good news. I think the word we are all looking for is..."annnnnyways...."..

Is there any word on what schools are interested in Frazer? It's unfortunate that a kid who thinks so highly of the university is likely to leave, but I suppose that's the way these things go when you're recruiting like we are. We've come along way from the late Davie and Willingham years.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 6:22 pm | #

Best of luck to Frazer. I really believe that this guy is going to have an EXCELLENT career somewhere (if he does in fact choose to leave ND). I honestly thought that he would have a good chance to start this year, and personally believed that the race would come down to him and Clausen. This guy is going to do well anywhere he goes, and from what I hear is a true class act. I really, really hope he stays on at ND, but if not, woe to his next schools competitor's secondaries.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 10:33 pm | #

P.S.

You know, I'm really kinda pissed that I didn't get to see this wonderful post by Jim. Since we're in the slow time of the season, could we maybe have an entire post dedicated to his idiocy? Some critiquing could be great, and would be beneficial to all who read the post and plan to post. Please!
Brad | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 10:37 pm | #

Brad, pick up a bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap at your local health food store. Replace the word 'Marx' with 'Art Best' and 'athlete's foot' with 'marijuana' in the label. Leave capitalization unchanged.
indy | Email | Homepage | 06.02.07 - 11:04 pm | #

Here is the new Rivals 2008 ranking. ND's top is Rudolph at #22 and then Crist at # 67.
http://rivals100.rivals.com/view...asp? ra_key=1803
GB | Email | Homepage | 06.03.07 - 6:30 am | #

GB,

Didn't see us in any top 25 on D.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 06.03.07 - 2:42 pm | #

Would you people please quit worrying about how Rivals ranks the recruits and start having some faith in Charlie and Corwin and the rest of the staff. You people are obsessed with these damn recruiting services and how many stars the players have and who is in the top 25 of this service or that service. I believe at the end we will have the top 20 or so of the Weis recruting service and all of them will be 5 star Domers. I will tell you one thing, a lot of the guys who committed wont get rated highly because they already committed and a lot of what these services use are the amount of offers. Just be happy for once that we are getting some outstanding football players and that we have the coaching staff to develop these players into winners and champions. That is all we should care about at this time.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 06.03.07 - 5:37 pm | #

Doug,

We know the Sam Bowie risks.

In general, our top recuits have been O, bc they know CW can get them to the NFL.

If we'd had more success on D the last couple of years, we'd be doing better on paper at least. The "top" D players want to see what CB brings to the D. If he does for us what Ron English did for UM, we'll be doing well on the field and in homes.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 06.03.07 - 6:16 pm | #

Doug

I think it is just human nature to quantify things. I am sure CW and his staff do some sort of quantifying. We have basically 2 types of sciences. The hard sciences would be chemistry, physics, etc. that use data and the results are not that much in question. The soft sciences would be psychology, sociology. If you have two variables, you will not necessarily get the "expected result". However, if you do this on a large sample, then the probablility is you will get a certain result. Quantum physics has this happen and you will only get probabilities and not a definite result. In a certain sense, the star rating of football players is the same thing. It uses subjective input and tries to quantify it. Anyway, what else would we discuss in the off season?
GB | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 2:59 am | #

The defense will be the national story about this team in the fall, and will be entirely the result of coaching. MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!

If the O-line can improve, we may have a few weeks of giddy championship fantasies before the front loaded schedule kicks our teeth in. Sorry to all you people who can take no pleasure in anything less than a national championship, but this year we should be looking for big pop on defense and signs of balance and competence in our offensive attack. We will lose games, but hopefully we can improve enough to end the bowl streak and look forward to a top 5 preseason ranking in 2008 based on youth and a strong finish. Predictions aside, I sincerely hope we can find a way to whip the tards from neverland. Give me that and I'll take a loss to Oregon in the 'Hershey's take-5' bowl.
indy | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 9:44 am | #

Doug, if you look at the classes as a whole, you will see that you can't seriously compete for a championship unless you consistently have good recruiting rankings. Individual rankings may be unreliable, but team rankings are pretty good, at least when looked at in tiers.

There is a huge talent gap between schools that sign at least 40% four-stars and those that don't. To really compete for a championship, you need 50%, and to be a favorite, you need 60%. ND has steadily been climbing that list with Weis (43% in 2006 and 72% in 2007, even after having three four-stars decommit).

Here are the top schools over the last three recruiting classes for this stat. Note the big dropoff around the low forties::
79%: USC
68%: Florida
67%: LSU
63%: Texas
60%: Ohio State
60%: Florida State
56%: Miami
56%: Georgia
53%: Oklahoma
47%: Auburn
47%: Tennessee
47%: Michigan
44%: Notre Dame
42%: Penn State
37%: Nebraska
35%: Alabama
35%: California
33%: South Carolina
32%: UCLA
31%: Clemson
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 12:31 pm | #

I honetly think we will win our bowl game this year. Let's assume that we go 9-3 or 8-4 in the regular season. We beat someone who we should have lost to, and lose to someone we should have beat. We will probably go to the Gator Bowl and play a team we can actually match. As has been the case in the last few years' bowlgames, we have played teams with much more talent than us. (See Steve's chart above.) Even when we played Oregon State in the Insight Bowl we were overmatched. If we go to a non-BCS game and play a team that doesn't completely demolish us in terms of talent, we should win. All of Weis's losses so far, with maybe the exception of MSU in year one, have had far superior talent than we have. Everyone else we have beaten.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 3:28 pm | #

Jon,

Losing to Michigan in 2006....do you really believe that UM had "far superior talent than we have"?
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 3:46 pm | #

A disclaimer on my chart - it counts freshmen the same as any other class (it also doesn't account for transfers, early-entry draftees, or 5th year seniors). If you only count Sophomore's through Seniors, which is probably a better predictor, ND comes in at 28%.

If you just look at those three classes for last year, Michigan had 60% while ND had 24%. Without a doubt, Michigan had far superior talent last year.

Four/Five star recruits by year:
Michigan:
2003: 13/17
2004: 13/22
2005: 11/23
2006: 11/19
2007: 7/20

Notre Dame:
2003: 8/22
2004: 3/18
2005: 2/15
2006: 12/28
2007: 13/18
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 4:03 pm | #

Alright, I was going to say that, but then Steve did, so now I won't.
One thing about your numbers though.
I assume it's:

(4 or 5 star)/(total number)
Jon | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 9:59 pm | #

So, yes, I do believe their talent was superior to ours, and by a formidable margin.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 06.04.07 - 10:01 pm | #