I'm starting to think that the no. 1 TE position at ND is like the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching post at Hogwarts.

Yeatman should be suspended for a semester. It's not a big deal that college students drink, or even that they get caught. It's that it was his second offense, which shows he did not learn. It also bothers me that guys would be drinking during the season. Winter, spring and summer, be college students. During the season, be focused on football and studying.
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 12:32 pm | #

Would that be a suspension for one semester from school as well as from football?

I can't help but think of the Kyle McAlarney (sp?) situation from a year or two ago and how I thought the school overreacted in dismissing him from school as well as the b-ball team. Seems to me a precedent has been established that will probably show Yeatman the door back to CA.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 12:40 pm | #

I will be surprised if WY makes it back to the Team.

Wow, 2:00 a.m. drinking party after a MSU loss and bus trip back to the Bend, no football team curfew?

ND TE = teaching the Dark Arts at Hogwarts, man wish I’d of thought that one up. Good one Song.

I wouldn’t grind and nash your teeth over the lose of a TE, just like FB’s they are not in the game plan.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 12:50 pm | #

Seriously? I'm just not sure about the use of a Harry Potter reference when talking about Notre Dame football.

Hate to bring this up, but one of those thoughts in the back of the mind when Reuland transferred is that it would be nice to have the depth even if he wasn't playing every down. Now that the worst appears to have happened, the guy should be our starting TE.
ND Alum | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 1:06 pm | #

The thing that bother me most about Yeatman, is that he was told what would happen if he got in trouble again by a lot of different people. He most likely had conversations with the judge, the DA, his attorney, multiple coaches, university officials, his parents, teammates, friends, his probation officer, and any number of other people along the way. He was aware of the ramifications and he still chose to go and put himself in that situation. I don't care about students drinking. I don't even care about players doing it during the season. However, if I were told I could lose so much if I got in trouble a second time, you better believe I would stay about 1000 yards from anything that might get me in a bad situation.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 1:17 pm | #

Anyone know if this was a party for Jimmy Clausen's 21st birthday? Wasn't that on Sunday? No mention of Jimmy in any of the articles tells me that it was not related and that he was out doing his own thing with his friends.

Very dissappointed in Yeatman. Even more dissappointed in our inability to retain these top tight ends.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 1:33 pm | #

Think about how many non-athlete students would be suspended for receiving a DUI followed by a (what I consider to be a minor) drink offense. For a normal student, this would result in an increase level of probation and counseling, not suspension.
I think it might be best of WY to take a break from football, but I don't think a suspension from school is warranted.
Pops | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 1:42 pm | #

The kid is only 20 - the resisting arrest thing (if true) is troubling but hell, maybe I would have to. Give him a break. He was just out having a good time. I hope he can stay in school and still play. We can use every warm body we can get our hands on.
Old Guy | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 1:51 pm | #

I would hesitate to compare this to MacAlarney's situation, and would certainly say it's different than a regular old underage drinking citation. Yeatman's first offense was OWI, or DUI or whatever you call it - drinking is fine, but DUI is bad (ask anyone who has lost a loved one to a DUI) and the reckless driving suggests he blew more than a 0.08 - clearly in no shape to drive. Still, he's 20 and a kid, and kids learn from doing stupid stuff.

However, when he's then on probabation and goes out drinking it's a different story, plus he got cited for false informing and resisting arrest. There's clearly a streak of terrible judgement, and worse, lack of ability to learn from mistakes.

That said, I don't know the guy and am don't know the nuances of the situation, but there are certain expectations of Notre Dame men and women, athletes or no. This doesn't pass muster. Good luck to Rudolph and Fauria the rest of the season, and good luck to Yeatman in getting himself back on track.
OderName | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 2:24 pm | #

Sorry, "the kid is only 20" doesn't wash with me, nor that he was out having a good time. He's a scholarship athlete during the regular season. He got a second chance and he flushed it down the toilet.

He can have a good time anytime he wants. Just not on the largesse of Notre Dame du Lac.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 2:35 pm | #

I've heard Yeatman's DUI was from driving a golf cart? Is that the true story? If so, give me a break. This kid should have known better than to be at a house party but still, I can't see how he deserves to lose everything over have one drink at a house party.

And resisting arrest in this case = hiding under the bed. Give me a break, who WOULDN'T hide under the bed given his circumstances.

This is a total abuse of authority by a bunch of cops out trying to take advantage of their position of authority to take down a bunch of "privileged" Notre Dame kids. It makes me sick to think Yeatman's future hangs in the balance.

Fr. Jenkins, I know you're a good guy - cut the kid a break and use this as a "last straw" - i.e. tell the student athletes this won't be tolerated anymore, but at the same time, work to keep these ridiculous cops out of ND's business.
I drank before 21 too...and I' | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 2:55 pm | #

Mmmmmmmm . . . Legacy Burger.
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 2:58 pm | #

For whatever it's worth, Konrad Reuland is finally eligible to play for Stanford starting this week.

But he's currently stuck as their 4th string TE and won't be making the trip to Washington to face Willingham and the Huskies.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 3:02 pm | #

IMO, any law that turns the majority of basically decent people into lawbreakers is a bad law. The prohibition on drinking under 21 is a very bad law, widely ignored by every demographic, geographic and psychographic segment of our society. It's one of those things where 95% of the transgressors will never get punished, but 5% will pay the price. This just breeds contempt for the law, and it also puts underage drinkers into situations that encourage over-indulgence rather than learning to drink in moderation. At the same time, we still allow 18 year olds to go fight and die for our country. My two cents as an old fart.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 3:14 pm | #

In most countries it is not against the law - that says something.

Also - 18 was the legal drinking age in many states years ago.

This is a bogus. He was rightfully punished for the DUI, but I give him a free pass on this. I assume he is a decent kid- goes to ND, plays as an underclassman in two sports - his grades must be ok - he just likes a little liquor. It's not like he attached a girl like Dirty Sanchez at USC did!
Boston Alum | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 3:22 pm | #

I wouldn't think the Yeatman thing was a big deal at all if he hadn't had an alcohol-related incident just several months before. By all accounts, he was told very clearly to stay out of trouble. So I don't really care that it's a dumb law (although I agree that it is) or that the police unfairly "pick on" ND students (they probably do); the simple truth is that Yeatman, unless he is a complete and total idiot, knew the law and chose to disobey it...twice. In my opinion, any sympathy people may have for this guy is horribly misplaced.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 3:42 pm | #

Has anyone heard of the Amethyst Initiative? Essentially admitting that college drinking is out of control -- and not likely to come under control under current circumstances -- a hundred or so college presidents signed a petition asking for a national discussion of the proper drinking age. It included a number of important institutions (e.g., Duke, Johns Hopkins, Tufts). Out of ND, SMC and Holy Cross, which college president stood up and signed: You got it, Holy Cross! As much as I love ND, and the father of one recent graduate and one current freshman, it is incredibly backward on these issues. I'm betting WY is gone -- both from football and school.
JAC1980 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 4:22 pm | #

OderName,

How is this situation different than McAlarney's? I would argue it's a worse situation. If I recall correctly, and I'm not 100% certain, McAlarney's offense (stopped for a traffic violation and he had a roach or something in an ashtray?) was a first time offense whereas of course young Will is now a two time alleged offender. If McAlarney is going to be booted out of ND on a first time offense (how many college kids smoke weed as well as drink?) I can't see how the powers that be at ND can justify keeping Yeatman in school much less on the football team. Don't get me wrong because I thought ND went over board on the McAlarney incident however a precedent has been established and if they want to set a lower standard for a football player than I would suggest that the new AD seek to have the Irish join the SEC or another conference that routinely looks the other way to an athlete's transgressions.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 4:24 pm | #

First, let's clear up a couple misconceptions from statements made above: He was not driving a golf cart, he was driving on the freakin' sidewalk. Hiding under the bed = NOT resisting arrest. Ask any cop how they feel about suspects hiding under the bed and whether or not it is dealt with harshly. Who said he had only one drink? In the history of DUI arrests, the majority of the people found guilty claim the had a "couple o' beers". No one ever says, "Well officer, I just put down an 18 pack!"

Look, having an age to determine your ability to drink is stupid. I know lots of 40 and 50 year olds who can't handle their booze. However, currently, it IS the law. I also don't think I should be limited to 65 on the freeway, but the CHP says otherwise.

He knew what the consequences would be and now he is going to pay the price. Most of the consequences are not up to Fr. Jenkins or Coach Weis. They are up to the South Bend DA. Will let down his teammates. You make a commitment to your team to do what it takes to give your all for the common goal. And Will completely disregarded that he would be completely letting his teammates down if he got in trouble again.

I hope he turns this around, but I would not be surprised if he was not allowed to do it at ND.

Best of luck to him.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 4:25 pm | #

Far be it from me to criticize a 20 year old about having some beers at a house on Colfax after a frustrating loss at Michigan State.

It sounds like a bunch of athletes were there. In fact, I think it was a lacrosse party, and Yeatman's on the team, right?

It's just hard to believe that such poor judgement can be shown when you've got so much to lose. Damn, son, find a drink somewhere that you're sure you won't get caught.
Tennessee Domer 78 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 4:39 pm | #

As someone who was cited in college by Indiana excise I can tell you that they ARE unreasonable. Excise police are not your typical law enforcement. This isn't your state trooper friend who tells you he never pulls over someone for going 5 over. I was cited because I was under 18 in a liquor store helping a 21 year old carry out beer. The 21 year old who purhcased the beer was cited for purchasing for a minor. The driver of the car was under 18 and was cited. I was cited for minor in a tavern and minor in possession. None of the things we were doing would remotely be considered "dangerous" behavior. However, the excise department's whole mission is to punish those who are underage. They do absolutely nothing to stop underage drinking proactively. The entire objective is to hand out stiff penalties so kids will "think twice" before breaking alcohol laws. Every single one of those kids cited at that party WILL drink before their suspension is up. Because fear of punishment is not an effective strategy for stopping crime. Just as capital punishment doesn't stop any severe crime. Ask any ND psych professor. So in response to the "If I knew I was going to lose my full ride I wouldn't drink at a party" line. Spare us all, if you've been to college in the last 20 years you would know that staying away from parties with alcohol takes more than a good head on your shoulders. So should he be suspended? Yes, he broke the rules, he knows it. But let's not kid ourselves, he's no worse than any other college student in the same situation.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 5:36 pm | #

I don't think anyone said he was any worse, but he does have a hell of a lot more to lose than most students. He is a two sport athlete and a very large part of both teams at that.

If a regular student gets popped, who do they let down? Themselves and their parents is about all. If an athlete goes down for something as stupid (albeit common) as alcohol, they let their entire team(s) down and put undue strain on their teammates. He has not only become a distraction to the week's practice, but he is now a liability because he will not compete and could force players into action, like Fauria, who are not ready to be playing yet.

He is not any worse. Believe me, I have done much worse things in my life than what this kid (or most kids) have done. However, he has far more to lose in college than I ever had. With greater reward comes greater responsibility.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 5:47 pm | #

And one more thing, yes he did break the rules and he knew it. But he knew it the first time around too.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 5:50 pm | #

I agree. Go out and have fun, but be careful... make sure you don't get caught.

As for letting down his teammates... give me a freakin' break. He may not be the sharpest kid when it comes to working his way around society's rules, but the last thing he was thinking about was the possibility of getting in trouble by going to a party and having some drinks. It's just bad luck for him, and with the amount of work these student-athletes (especially football players) put in between academics and athletics, you better damn well realize that they are going to blow off some steam after the big game. I don't have nearly the schedule they do, and I am always looking forward to the end of the work week.

By the way, the sidewalk he was driving on was one of the wide campus sidewalks that is commonly used for vehicles to drive on. It is also a way to sneak on campus... again, just don't get caught!
Domer97 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 5:51 pm | #

Knoxville, I think you're missing something with respect to the KMac thing. Regardless of what you may think about the relative severity of the infractions, by its past actions it's clear the university considers drug offenses of any kind to be far more serious than alcohol offenses up to and including DUI.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 6:04 pm | #

Mr. Wednesday - Absolutely correct with that comment.

As someone who graduated from ND five years ago, was cited his freshman year, and has a dozen other friends with two dozen citations among them (wide circle of friends...whatever I was a business major), I'd like to add a few quick points.

- For Yeatman to be suspended from school would be to hold him to a higher standard than DuLac (which you can debate endlessly if he should be). Trust me, you do not get kicked out of school for two arrests (or three or four however many he was given in total).

- Drugs will get you kicked off off campus immediately, as will getting caught having sex (all of this of course depends on your rector, if busted in the dorm). I don't think that any number of alcohol violations alone would get you kicked out of the dorm (may be wrong on this).

- Bill Kirk is an asshole. Quick story that needs to be told:
My buddy (class of '05) was walking to his seats before the start of the Michigan (sucks!) game with his girlfriend. Lest we forget, it was wet everywhere and he slipped. An usher taps him on the shoulder, and instead of asking if he was alright, he asks him if he's been drinking, which of course he had been. So the usher takes him to security/NDSP/SBPD whoever has jurisdiction there, they breathalyze him, he blows something like a 1.4 and they haul him off to the St. Joe County drunk tank. Not only does he have to sit there for 8 hours, when he gets out of jail there is a present for him from one Mr. Bill Kirk. His present: a letter stating that he was banned from campus for life. Banned. For. Life. How ridiculous is that? Things have gotten out of control at Notre Dame. A quick trip to the Observer viewpoints section and you can see that quite a few students are upset with the level of policing of the under-age drinking that is occurring, while violent crime has been a huge problem this year in South Bend.

I'll be at the game this Saturday, trying not to stumble. You've been warned.
Brian '05 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 6:23 pm | #

Sorry if that was thread hi-jacking. I've just been really pissed about this whole situation.
Brian '05 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 6:26 pm | #

That same night the SB police emptied Corby's to card every single person in the whole freaking bar. My roommate is 28 and an MBA student and they wouldn't even let him go to the bathroom before they kicked everyone out. I think they just hate ND sometimes...
Kyle | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 6:29 pm | #

It's the age old "townies vs. college kids" dilemma on display in college towns all across the country.
luke | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 7:21 pm | #

Before I come to any conclusions myself, I want to make sure I have the story straight. If anyone can answer these questions accurately, please do so. I am sure there are a lot more people on this site than I who have heard many conflicting stories.

Regarding his OWI: As I understand it, he was driving a car on a "sidewalk" that a lot of people drive down, given the right circumstances. Is that correct? Also, was his BAC over .08 or was he ticketed for OWI because he was under 21 and had any alcohol in his system?

Regarding this recent incident: My understanding is that he was at a party, cops came, he blew .02 on the breathalyzer and was thrown into a bus with everyone else at the party. Are those details accurate? Does anyone know he actually did to merit the resisting and false ID charges? Both of those can be serious, but can also be petty, tacked on charges.

I've been trying to figure out the details, but I keep hearing conflicting stories.
cjdomer04 | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 7:42 pm | #

Mr. Wednesday & Brian '05,

I admit that maybe I don't appreciate the university's take on a drug violation no matter how minor it may be but then I never attended ND much less graduate from there. I'm just saying that it would appear hypocritical to me if the university allows Yeatman to stay in school and/or to stay on the football team when violating the law for a second time while on probation no less. If that is the approach they are going to take then I'll stop my criticism of Tennessee where Phil Fulmer seems to look away every time one of his players gets into trouble. ND is suppose to better than that and I hope they are.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 9:13 pm | #

Drinking age should be 18. Voting age should be 21.
We thought ND and SB was tough years ago, but compared to all this, we had it easy. Everybody drank underage, on campus and off. Corby's (the real Corby's) was always packed with kids under 21, and the cops called the bar a half hour before a "raid". Bartenders and bouncers made the announcement, and everybody filed out. Drinking on campus was rampant with the only prohibition being on kegs. My rectors drank like fish, too, and I remember drinking their Scotch a few times. Athletes drank during the season, and nobody ratted them out. Unless one's drinking resulted in a bad fight, or something like that, nobody really cared. Drinking after wins was a given, just like drinking after losses was necessary.
Booze and ND are like peas and carrots.
I am parched. Think I'll have one.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 9:46 pm | #

Knoxville Irish, you are right on target. ND does stand for something different.

If they want to change the drinking age to 18 from 21, that is another matter.

The problem we are addressing is breaking the current law for the second time while the student is on probation for the first event.

Sorry.
tednict | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 9:46 pm | #

Stumbled onto this thread after a neighborhood meeting with lots of wine. Some quick tales re: all of the above:

1. I was an ND freshman in 1991 at Stanford Hall, just after Bill Kirk left as rector there. His picture appeared in the Observer for his new job and upperclassmen cut it out and taped it to every urinal in the dorm. So we p*ssed on Bill Kirk's face for a week before the paper dissolved.

2. Overheard at my first tailgate after graduation: "Sometimes I think I drink too much. Then I come back to Notre Dame."

3. I played trumpet in the marching band. Motto on back of trumpet T-shirts in 1990: "Beer is food and sleep is for F*gs!"

4. I went to ND; brother went to U of Michigan. Parents went to both orientations. ND: drink as much as you like in the dorms with your door closed, but have sex and you are out of here. U of M.: f*ck as much as you like in the dorms (condoms are free), but get caught with beer and you are out of here.

Conclusion: VIW is dead on. Booze and ND are like peas and carrots. The b-ball guy with the pot should have been drinking; then he would and could have stayed on the team.

Free Will Yeatman!
Joe Magarac | Email | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 10:26 pm | #

Funny stuff, Voice and Joe M!

Let's keep things in perspective here - ND continues to stand for something different in many other aspects. The crap that happens at U$C, Florida and others far exceeds underage drinking by college kids. And where are THOSE guys? They're playing on Saturdays.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 1:28 am | #

Thank you, OC MJ, for beating me to the perspective. Are you people beating the "ND is different, this stuff shouldn't happen" drum serious??!?! Yeatman and Golic got caught at a party, drinking underage. Raise your hand if you NEVER did that at ND....I dind't think so. Bad decision, especially for Yeatman? Yeah. Comparable to going to a party, getting into a physical altercation, and resisting arrest (NOT by hiding under a bed), a la USC cornerback Shareece Wright? I think not. Wright continued to start, by the way--Yeatman was suspended for a semester after his first offense, and faces worse now. Hell yes, we're different. We over-ounish when our players commit minor offenses that everyone else does (I'm not talking about McAlarney, because dugs is different to me). Florida allows players back after they shoot up a motel room with an AK-47. USC takes no action against ReyRey Malauga his freshman year when he knocks out another student at a party. Penn State needs to be renamed State Penn, after all the crap the past year they had. Yeah, we're different--we don't have felons. We have kids. Kids do the same illegal things you and I did when we were underage and at ND.

Funny story--I was being interviewed for a security clearance renewal, and I was asked if I had ever taken any illegal "substances". Now, I never ever have in all my life--the only thing I've done is underage drinking, back in the day. But stupid me, I said "well, I drank a bit when I was in college, before I was 21--does that count?" 45 minutes later she finishes interrogating me over my drinking habits--apparently underage drinking means I'm probably sneaking sips in the office in the middle of the day...

Moral: don't mention crap like that when you don't need too....
Nate | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 2:44 am | #

over-ounish= over-punish

dugs=drugs

2nd moral: Until your eyes heal completely, it's best to proofread everything if you insist on typing after eye surgery...
Nate | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 2:47 am | #

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26847171/

John Walrters has a pretty good piece on the arrests (Found through Rakes of Mallow, thanks guys). Give it a read.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 2:59 am | #

Over twenty cops and buses to haul in the "offenders" at a house party. Geez, don't the taxpayers deserve a better way to spend their money? Don't the South Bend Gestapo have more important things to do than to raid house parties?

Is it really so shocking that college kids drink?
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 6:58 am | #

Voice - We spent many evenings (and afternoons, for that matter) in Corby's, Nickie's and the Library. I had forgotten that the cops would call before they showed up, ut that is certainly true...

Those were the good ole days -
Tennessee Domer 78 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 9:50 am | #

Knoxville - I actually was agreeing with you. I agree that Yeatman's situation is worse than KMac's, for three reasons: 1) It was a second offense, 2) Again, not knowing the exact situation, being cited for resisting and giving false information shows lack of respect for authority (unless, of course, he was just hiding under the bed, then these charges are a bit ridiculous), and 3) My assumption of the severity of the DUI given the aggravating factor of reckless driving.

Still, here's hoping the kid can get himself straight and learn from all this, whether it's at ND after a semester or two of suspension, or at another school.
OderName | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 12:28 pm | #

Not to make light of this story but at least it's taken our mind off our woefull rushing attack. Please. please rush for more then a hundred this Saturday.
Paul | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 12:39 pm | #

Voice/Tennesse--

How I long for the old days. As I've told both of my kids that have or are now attending ND: It's not my ND and I don't think I could take it. It's still college. As noted above in relation to my post on the Amethyst Initiative, ND is so "corporate" and "image conscious" today it's unbelievable.

Go Irish!
JAC1980 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 1:02 pm | #

I hate that WY is smiling in his mugshot. Make sit seem like he doesn't give a shit and thinks it's funny. Or he could just be wasted.
erin | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 2:22 pm | #

We live in such a generation of political correctness, and I absolutely hate it. ND's gotten worse just since I've been here for 3 years:

The administration is canning everything resembling an effort to have large dorm parties, including the Fisher Zoo, the Alumni Wake, the Dillon Pep Rally.

Pep rallies might as well be Disney on Parade.

In 1990, the trumpet shirts said, "beer is food and sleep is for f*gs"? Well, last year the trumpets got their asses handed to them for having a "who put sand in the vasoline?" t-shirt, and this year, we weren't even allowed to have a silhouette of a guy with a trombone between his legs. BS! All this has been an edict from the administration to clean the band up.

The admin has never been more worried about legal action. My girlfriend was told she could no longer bus kids from a poor inner-city elementary school to ND for a mentoring program because the bus didn't have FIVE MILLION dollars of insurance! I had to sign a waiver to go to the band picnic this year. An f-ing PICNIC!

The glory days are not coming back, and it doesn't even look like we're leveling off.
Matt '09 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 4:52 pm | #

Of course Matt, these things are more an indictment against current American culture than simply ND. Litigation (or at least the fear thereof) is now a part of our daily life. It doesn't look like it's gonna get any better either until we get some legal reforms, as the number of people willing to pass up on the free chance to sue institutions for major bucks doesn't look to be getting any smaller.
Kyle | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 7:03 pm | #

What Kyle said. And Matt, please know that the 1990 "Beer is Food and Sleep is for F*gs!" T-shirts were banned. So were the 1989 "I'm a Trumpet So Blow Me!" shirts. And so was my banner on North Quad before the FSU game in 1993: "FSU Seminoles: Your Trail of Tears Starts Here." When the rector told me to take it down I told him it could have been worse: we nixed my first slogan choice because we didn't want to be politically incorrect.

That slogan: "Catholics v. Seminoles: A winning tradition since 1492."
Joe Magarac | Email | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 11:28 pm | #