Blue Star Chronicles
The washington post had pretty good editorial about this Friday. Their idea was that Hamas be given a set of things that MUST happen, or the general fund money they are given is cut off. Let the Palestinians know that contrary to popular belief when they elected Hamas, it can get worse.
When I read this I clearly wasn't surprised. I truely believe these idiots on the left need professional help.
When I read this I clearly wasn't surprised. I truely believe these idiots on the left need professional help.
Its elitist snobbery like this that keeps the blue states getting bluer.
As far as Hamas goes, they were elected for a couple of reasons. Fatah is massively corrupt. They have to clean up their act (note to Republicans..your time could be coming). Secondly, contrary to rightwing reports, Hamas did in fact soften its stance on Israel and terrorism prior to the election:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...3/
ixportal.html
Hamas also does huge amounts of charity work for the Palestinian people..and have shown a very shrewd ability politically:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/
ar...MNGMHGVCEP1.DTL
Its elitist snobbery like this that keeps the blue states getting bluer.
That's really cool. You have no idea how seldom a Southerner gets called an elitest.
I know you were referring to Jo - but she was referring to what I wrote - so I'm taking it as a back-handed compliment.
Thanks!
Crazy Politico - I didn't see that particular ariticle, but I saw some similar ones. As I understand it, the President, Condi Rice and the Israeli gov't have been very open that the Hamas must renounce their mission of destroying Israel and the Jews to continue receiving funds.
In my opinion it would be appalling to fund them under their current 'martyr's oath'.
Jo - I've thought it might be time to get the ol' carotid arteries checked out.
Corruption or Terrorism ~ great choices there.
Let's pray that a leopard can change it's spots and they will work for the best of the Palestinian people.
Can it happen? That remains to be seen.
from http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/
ar...MNGMHGVCEP1.DTL
(that Carla pointed to)
"Threats from President Bush and European Union leaders to cut off financial aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA) if Hamas does not moderate its stance toward Israel and renounce the use of violence were brushed aside by party leaders, who said they would look elsewhere for the money."
"This aid cannot be a sword over the heads of the Palestinian people and will not be material to blackmail our people, to blackmail Hamas and the resistance," said Ismael Hanieya, who headed the Hamas election list.
"Hamas has many alternatives -- there is much good within our people. And we have the Arab world, and we also have all those who love the oppressed peoples in the world and who stand beside us," Hanieya said."
The "alternatives" Hanieya speaks of are what worries me.
That's really cool. You have no idea how seldom a Southerner gets called an elitest.
You're welcome. It ought to happen all the time, because that's the attitude of many conservatives. But as far as taking at as a compliment..don't bother. It isn't meant as one.
Let's pray that a leopard can change it's spots and they will work for the best of the Palestinian people.
Can it happen? That remains to be seen.
Indeed. But there is precedent. After all, Ariel Sharon managed to change his.
But as far as taking at as a compliment..don't bother. It isn't meant as one.
Ah shucks. Now my day is ruined 
And I was trying to be so nice to you.
Yankee Mom - that's my concern as well. The alternative sources I'm sure are plentiful.
This is an extremely dangerous situation. That part of the world has been extremely dangerous for a very long time and it's coming to a head.
Hamas' stated purpose is to destroy Israel. We cannot turn our backs on Israel.
I don't think we can hug and understand them into not wanting to kill us all.
Beth, can you email me again? nytewind@nytewind.com Thanks.
Carla, you sound like a Jimmy Carter clone.
In all seriousness, Hamas has not softened it's stance on Israel. Your statement is completely untrue. From the link which you provided, I will quote "...the manifesto has not been totally cleansed of controversial language. It supports an armed struggle to regain Palestinian land, a struggle that involved numerous Hamas suicide bombs."
Are you saying that an organization which supports terrorism in the form of suicide bombings against innocent civilians, has softened it's stance?
Also, from the same article "The group's founding charter remains unchanged, predicting that Israel will suffer the same fate as the Crusader kingdoms in the Holy Land in the Middle Ages."
Unchanged.
It is true that Fatah was/is corrupt, although Abbas seems to be much much better than Arafat (a terrorist).
Have you seen Fatah supporters? They are just as militant as Hamas. So we are replacing one extreme with another. Although Hamas is open about it's stance on Israel. Hamas is also funded by Iran.
Also, just because a group is charitable, to it's own people and supporters mind you, does not mean anything. Does al-Qaeda not help it's supporters? Did the Nazis not help it's supporters? In fact, that is what got the Nazis elected to power to begin with, and Hamas mirrors this. I think Hamas is about as close to the Nazis as we have seen since WWII.
I will refer you to the Hamas's charter: The martyrs' oath.
This does not sound soft to me. It sounds like exactly what it is: a call for Jihad against non-Muslims.
We all want peace. But unlike pacifist Jimmy Carter, many of us realize that peace comes at a price. We also realize that we do not negotiate with terrorists. Look at how long Israel has been trying to negotiate with these people. They have a cease-fire, then what? Another suicide bombing kills innocent women and school children. It's got to stop.
Negotiating with terrorists is not going to stop them. Negotiations are not going to sway these radicals from achieving their true agenda, which is the erradication of Israel.
We had better come up with some solutions, quickly, before this situation turns into a bloodbath.
I realize that Carter has good intentions. The man has integrity, and I'm not calling him a bad man, he is a good man. However, in my opinion, he seriously lacks good judgement, in dealing with these types of dangerous threats.
Carla is buying the "Palestinian" Arabs' bullshit if she thinks that Hamas has dropped any call to work towards the end of Israel.
And their propaganda is working.
Here here! Brent and Mark and Beth! I don't question Carter's intentions and integrity. I voted for him - once - but not the second time when I realized what a weak leader he was. Like other Democrats I know, he just isn't realistic and appears ignorant of the real threat that radical Islam poses to our country, our allies, and our freedoms. He sanctimoniously talks about peace when peace is not possible until threats like Saddam, Osama and Iran have been eliminated. And the sooner the better.
In all seriousness, Hamas has not softened it's stance on Israel. Your statement is completely untrue. From the link which you provided, I will quote "...the manifesto has not been totally cleansed of controversial language. It supports an armed struggle to regain Palestinian land, a struggle that involved numerous Hamas suicide bombs."
Is this really the argument you're planning on going with?
What I said is completely true and I backed it up with two articles. You might not like the articles or you might disagree with them. If so...then please feel free to post unbiased information to back that up.
Your attempt to use the one article to maintain that I stated a falsehood is silly. Even that improper nontextual statement shows that Hamas has in fact backed off a significant portion of their previous rhetoric.
Are you saying that an organization which supports terrorism in the form of suicide bombings against innocent civilians, has softened it's stance?
According to what they are saying, yes. We'll see if their actions end up matching their words. But keep in mind that previous extremists (Sharon is the example I cited earlier) have done so.
Also, just because a group is charitable, to it's own people and supporters mind you, does not mean anything. Does al-Qaeda not help it's supporters? Did the Nazis not help it's supporters? In fact, that is what got the Nazis elected to power to begin with, and Hamas mirrors this. I think Hamas is about as close to the Nazis as we have seen since WWII.
I have no idea if Al Qaida does charity work for those in poverty. I've never heard of the Nazis doing it either..but I suppose its possible. Perhaps you can provide a source citation?
The idea that Hamas is like the Nazis is rather laughable. The Nazis were looking to take over the world. Hamas hardly shares that. It shallows your argument immensely to make such a poor comparison.
We all want peace. But unlike pacifist Jimmy Carter, many of us realize that peace comes at a price. We also realize that we do not negotiate with terrorists. Look at how long Israel has been trying to negotiate with these people. They have a cease-fire, then what? Another suicide bombing kills innocent women and school children. It's got to stop.
Of course we negotiate with terrorists.
We negotiated with the Iranians when they took our citizens hostage in the late 70s. We negotiated with them again during the Iran/Contra Affair. We're negotiating with the Sunni insurgency in Iraq right now (or do you not consider the Iraqi insurgency to be terrorists?)
If you really want peace..then follow Carter's advice in the short term. Until Hamas shows actions that don't match up to their words...it generates good will and puts us in a position to make peace.
If that is what you're really interested in, that is.
Carla,
The arguments you bring up here are answered in the comments above. Maybe you need to re-read them.
You mention negotiating with terrorists in the 70s. That was Carter - he was unsuccessful. Iran released the hostages 15 minutes after Reagan became President because they knew in the marrow of their bones he'd have at them 20 minutes after he became President.
You also might want to brush up on your history. The analogy between Hamas and Nazis is a very good one. It fits very well.
Arguing aside. I am curious as to why you would support a group who has a well-documented history of oppression, denial of women's rights, denial of freedom of speech, freedom of press, religious freedom and a very well documented history of the murder of unarmed civilians?
Are you just anti-semitic?
What about tolerance of opinions that are different than yours?
We are on the same side - right? I mean correct?
From your last statement I can only assume you have never been in a real-life fight over anything important to you.
Look at the Christian Peace activitist who are currently hostages of terrorits.
http://bluestarchronicles.blogsp...n-war-
zone.html
and tell me again that turning your back on or 'showing good will' towards someone who has sworn to kill you is a good idea.
By the way Carla ... you are welcome.
You are able to say whatever you want, regardless of whether you want to support murderers and terrorists, critize your country, or anything you want thanks to people like my son who is willing to put himself in harms way and do violence so that you can maintain those rights.
You are welcome.
You mention negotiating with terrorists in the 70s. That was Carter - he was unsuccessful. Iran released the hostages 15 minutes after Reagan became President because they knew in the marrow of their bones he'd have at them 20 minutes after he became President.
No. Its because William Christopher busted his ass to get it done. And if Reagan was all about not negotiating with terrorists..he'd never have allowed negotiations to take place during Iran/Contra.
You also might want to brush up on your history. The analogy between Hamas and Nazis is a very good one. It fits very well.
I can say that the moon is made of green cheese..but unless I can prove it..it doesn't really matter. So far I've seen the Nazi/Hamas comparison made here twice..with no proof to back it up. So perhaps you'll take a stab at it, eh?
Arguing aside. I am curious as to why you would support a group who has a well-documented history of oppression, denial of women's rights, denial of freedom of speech, freedom of press, religious freedom and a very well documented history of the murder of unarmed civilians?
I support whatever gets us to peace. In my view this seems to be an opportunity to at least consider the possibility.
Now if you'd like to get technical..I could ask why you'd support the United States government..who also has a history of oppression, denial of women's rights, denial of freedom of speech/press (Alien and Sedition Acts, specifically) and a very well documented history of killing unarmed civilians? But then that would be silly and unreasonable..because we've reformed and changed over the years, haven't we?
Are you just anti-semitic?
LOL..why don't you just cut to the chase and ask me if I beat my kids and run over small puppies?
I've given you no cause to throw around such accusations. I won't dignify such silliness with an answer.
What about tolerance of opinions that are different than yours?
Again..silly question. I've demonstrated no intolerance here. I've merely offered up a different point of view and backed it up with news articles. Do you find that threatening?
Look at the Christian Peace activitist who are currently hostages of terrorits.
http://bluestarchronicles.blogsp...blogsp...n-war-
zone.html
and tell me again that turning your back on or 'showing good will' towards someone who has sworn to kill you is a good idea.
The activists you cite are being held in Iraq, not the Gaza Strip. Do you have some sort of evidence that Hamas is helping or supporting those holding the hostages?
I can say what I like politically because its the law. I appreciate and am grateful for men like your son who choose to serve their country. But I'm sorry you feel the need to use his service to attempt to elevate your argument...which you can't back up any other way, it seems.
For all you know I have a son serving in the military as well. But I would never c
oops...that last part was cut off.
What I tried to say was, "For all you know I have a son serving in the military as well. But I would never choose to use his service as a bludgeon."
What I said is completely true and I backed it up with two articles. You might not like the articles or you might disagree with them. If so...then please feel free to post unbiased information to back that up.
The Hamas Charter states:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
If you think that Hamas has magically reversed their thinking along these lines just because they wanted to assume the position of "leaders" of the "Palestinian" Arabs, I beg your pardon, but you don't know JACK SHIT about the Arab mind.
If that sounds racist to you, I can live with it. Speaking of "living with", have you ever lived among Arabs in an Arab country?
Get a clue.
The United States Constitution makes blacks 3/5ths of a person. Does this make the US government inherently wrong or bad NOW because of their original charter?
Get a clue yourself.
And frankly..you don't have a single idea what I know about the Arab mind because you don't know me.
What is so threatening to you about the citation of news articles and information that show Hamas MAY actually be softening their stances and preparing to do something good?
Carla, even Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu is saying this, and he is the front runner for the elections in March.
Perhaps you just weren't aware of this.
Also, perhaps you are not aware that Iran funds Hamas terrorism.
Former House Speaker, Newt Gingrich has also assimilated this comparison.
Both Gingrich and Netanyahu are very prominent politicians.
Thank you and you're welcome.
"And frankly..you don't have a single idea what I know about the Arab mind because you don't know me."
That's why I asked. Thanks for affirming what I suspected nby not answering. And you're going to have to explain this 3/5ths of a person nonsense.
Calm down everyone, geez!
Personal insults, obscenities, and sneers aside, regardless of politics, one cannot justify an argument against the menace of terrorists like Hamas; a group which kills the innocent in order to progress in it's agenda (the elimination of the Jewish people).
That is how Hamas is like the Nazis. Yes, they were elected to power, but also, their ultimate agenda according to their founding charter, is the elimination of Israel. This happens to be carried out primarily through suicide bombing attacks against innocent civilians, including children. However, they are also widely supported and praised by other terror groups, like Islamic Jihad, Hezbolla, al-Qaeda, and rouge terror nations such as Iran.
The fact that anyone would even consider funding such a group, I find to be more than outrageous. I find it absolutely shocking, and such support leaps far beyond being naive.
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