And far too many white women are showing their thong underwear and bras around town
I'm with the guy trying to make the rule. This 'fashion statement' is nothing but a confirmation of thug life, and quite honestly, good riddance.
It is not a crime to have bad taste. I don't like these fashions either and the coursening of black culture it encourages. But these are things that need to be addressed in civil society and not by the criminal law.
i don't want to see it, but i think it's unnecessary for a law against it. doesn't current indecent exposure laws apply?
can someone show me where it is a "prison culture" affect vs. just hearsay, 'cuz i saw such wear in baltimore in the early 70s.
Oops…
And far too many white women are showing their thong underwear and bras around town
We need legislation to mandate that all beautiful women (I will head and assemble a committee to judge women to see if they are beautiful enough) show more things and bras in public. This legislation is needed for men across the country.
We do need legislation that bans men from showing their skid marked underwear. That does no service to any group.
"
And far too many white women are showing their thong underwear and bras around town
LLR | 08.24.07 - 1:26 pm | #
"
What's wrong with that? 
God Bless College Freshman.
I can't believe Shay critisized people for expressing their blackness...that is just racist, a black person should be able to talk as mushmouth as they want and were a loin cloth to work if they want. Don't you know Ebonics is a natural expression of blackness that has roots in West Africa? Don't you know pants sagging is a way for the black man to show that his ancestors didn't wear European pants.
LOL
This would stand up maybe 15 minutes before a judge. Besides, next they'll be coming after me for wearing white socks with my Birkenstocks...
*
Besides, next they'll be coming after me for wearing white socks with my Birkenstocks...
Now that should be as illegal as the old men that wear shorts, dress socks, and penny loafers.
As much as I hate it, I hate “big gov’t” even more. Don’t cops have better things to do rather than check to see if someone’s pants are sagging to low for the gov’t official’s taste? Shouldn’t they be doing something else like…hum…catching murders, robbers and rapists?
I'm with LLR, Daniel, and DarkStar, as much as I dislike the baggy pants and showing-your-thong fashions.
I'm with LLR, Daniel, and DarkStar, as much as I dislike the baggy pants fashion.
So does that mean more thongs for women that choose to show them?
I am also against the law because it might crack down on women showing thongs and low cuts women pants. Now if the law ONLY targets men and their pants, I could kind of support it.
"Much of Black America"
Really? That statement might be called hyperbole. LOL
I'm actually with Shay on this one. If we can't codify some kind of dress code; then at least try to influence schools, shopping malls, and Popeye's to ban visible underwear and such.
I've noticed, though, that long white t-shirts are being worn to pretty much cover guys' butts; they can prove their sagginess while not showing they draws. Sorry, no props for ingenunity.
Whatever happened to young men dressing sharp to catch young ladies' attention?
Here we go again attacking a non-issue.
They attacked curved parts too. Go figure.
To be clear - THIS IS NOT A JOB FOR "Law Enforcement" but for COMMUNITY STANDARDS ENFORCEMENT.
It is my firm belief that the COMMUNITY should position a "Talliban member" at each doorway of a local mall that comes to mind based on my recent experience there. These standards enforcement agent should inspect the dress of every male AND FEMALE who desires to enter the mall. If the guy's pants are hanging off of his behind or if he is wearing the new UNIFORM - the long white t-shirts or if the FEMALES demonstrate that they have NO RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES based on the tight clothing or inappropriate dress - they should be denied admission to the facility.
(I know I am getting old when I am more offended by the sight of an inappropriately dressed young girl in a public area - wondering WHERE HER PARENTS ARE who let her dress like that rather than oogling at her. I have a greater sense of shame than lust at this point.)
I can put up with hundreds of ladies showing their thongs....
On a serious note legislating on such things is another example of the puritan epidemic sweeping through the US of A.
Influencing Popeye's?
Awesome.
Don't think we need to legislate against this.
I am also against the law because it might crack down on women showing thongs and low cuts women pants.
LLR | 08.24.07 - 1:53 pm | #
Pun intended?
I heard that the low riding, saggy style started in prisons as a certain form of advertising. Is this true?
A couple of years back, I saw a guy slowly crossing LA's Crenshaw Blvd. He was wearing the style--minus boxers or any underwear at all. Advertising.
For the record, I'm against the law too, as much as I despise the style.
LLR:
What is your issue.
I love to see women 18-25 in thongs and low cut jeans. As long as they are not fat with all kinds of cellulite and stretch marks.
This is a waste of $$ and time!
BUT nightgowns/tshirts, draws, cracks showing AND doorags need to GO!
Pun intended?
Nope, but thanks for point that out to me….LOL
LLR:
What is your issue.
I love to see women 18-25 in thongs and low cut jeans. As long as they are not fat with all kinds of cellulite and stretch marks.
Reread the comments. I am in support of beautiful women showing their thongs and wearing low cut pants. That’s why I suggested I head a committee to judge women. Want to be a member. Since I will head the board, you can be VP.
This is a waste of $$ and time!
Sometimes when politicians are doing BS like this I get pissed off because I figure they could be doing something more important like working on education. Then I think about all of the important stuff that they mess up and I wish that they would do stupid stuff like this.
thanks for point that out to me
My pleasure. :-D
LLR:
None of the other stuff these leaders do works; neither will criminalizing ugly fashion. The progressive illusion is that leaders and middle class folk can play Moses and "uplift" people who insist on being foolish (I credit Cynapse for the Moses analogy). That's why cities run by "progressives" such as Detroit, Baltimore, DC, Philly, hellholes. It's not progressives fault except to the point that they coddle people and refuse to tell them that they need to change themselves b/f they can expect "conditions" to magically transform.
We have got to do better....sighhhh
Whatever happened to young men dressing sharp to catch young ladies' attention?
Went up in smoke with the advent of the "gotta have a roughneck" era.
Here's my take: Young people have always tried to distinguish themselves from (and annoy) old folks, so if you are annoyed, they get a cheap thrill. Most guys out-grow it, although some fools never grow up.
As a parent, you pick your battles. If all the young cats are doing it, and you try to force your son not to, you are actually setting them apart from their peers, which will add stress to your household. It is a relatively mild form of rebellion, when you think about it, and easier to deal with than other forms of rebellion that are possible. I used to tell my son I could live with it because I don't have to worry about him committing crimes, since he would never be able to run from the cops like that. 
But some of my young brothers are going to have serious hip, knee and ankle problems as they age, because the have to walk unnaturally to keep their pants in place.
Oh, the style is hideous IMHO, but as long as the girls don't mind (or like it) the boys will keep it up.
[quote]If all the young cats are doing it, and you try to force your son not to, you are actually setting them apart from their peers, which will add stress to your household.[/quote]
Brotherbrown - this is when you PACK UP YOUR BELONGINGS AND MOVE YOUR KIDS TO A "BETTER PEER GROUP" who have standards that have a range in which the LOW END is above the top end of the other group that you left behind.
Its just that simple.
Its just that simple.
Baggy pants sagging off the behind and colorful thong showing is EVERYWHERE.
Tell those boys to pull up their pants and stop showing their drawers.
Find me one other place on this earth where people are showing their underwear in public. Enough said.
I'll bet those same boys would not like it if their mommas or fathers showed up at their school showing their underwear. I say apply a switch if they don't want to go along.
Or force them to watch either
"Out of Africa" or "The English Patient." Two of the most boring movies of all time.
The best movie line of all time was Robert Duvall in "Apocalypse Now":
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."
I know Shay, I'm getting off topic.
Give those boys the switch.
Darkstar, my father thought the three pairs of platform shoes I had were among the {funniest, ugliest, most uncomfortable} shoes his sons could have ever worn, but he saw them for the fad, however misguided, it was.
Cult-S, the part of your hyperbole that is especially amusing is how much you overact to that stuff. My son seems to have no problem finding work, because he has sense enough to know what to wear to interviews and follow the dress code at work. On his free time, he likes to be what he considers "comfortable."
And I'm telling you, as long as a critical mass of women find the look attractive, you can be prejudiced all you want; my son and his peers don't really have time for your hang-ups.
By the way, how do you feel about tattoos and earrings.
[quote]Baggy pants sagging off the behind and colorful thong showing is EVERYWHERE.[/quote]
DarkStar - THE QUESTION MUST BE ASKED........With Black people starting from a position that is below our target reference (if you read the report from the National Urban League - those who are rated as 1.0) and our VERBALLY STATED GOAL of becoming >=1.0...........DOES THIS FAD MOVE US FORWARD OR is this an act of those who are lingering at 0.58 and are content?
So in summary DarkStar - it is NOT a matter of WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. It is a matter of WHAT YOU MUST DO to improve your situation.
Yesterday as I drove through one of the few remaining straight up projects remaining in Atlanta, while at a traffic light I could not help but notice that with baggy pants YOU ARE FORCED TO GRAB YOUR CROTCH TO HOLD UP YOUR PANTS. I suspect that one of the drivers of the entire foolish fad is that A BLACK MAN GETS TO HOLD HIS "BALLS" while walking and this is a sign of MACHISMO.
[quote]My son seems to have no problem finding work, because he has sense enough to know what to wear to interviews and follow the dress code at work. On his free time, he likes to be what he considers "comfortable." [/quote]
"Comfortable" huh?
So exposing your drawers or your beltline below your crotch line is COMFORTABLE?
brotherbrown - these young men STRUGGLE TO WALK because they have THE WAISTLINE CONFINING THE RANGE OF MOTION FOR THEIR LEGS. How the hell is this "comfortable"?
I am sure that YOUR SON wears baggy pants rather than PANTS HANGING DOWN BELOW HIS BEHIND. Big difference. I know that YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE if he did the latter.
.DOES THIS FAD MOVE US FORWARD OR is this an act of those who are lingering at 0.58 and are content?
Some of my daughter's friends, who are in colleges up and down the Atlantic Coast and in the south, have worn and/or still wear their pants like this. I don't like it but sagging pants aren't affecting their minds, dreams, and goals.
I could "make" him leave home in a tuxedo, but he's going to wear his clothes how he wants to once he's out of my sight. Just like you did what you wanted once you were outside on your own, away from your parents.
Cult-S, you obviously still don't understand, but that's cool. If and when you become the father of teenagers, my advice, for what it's worth, is "you will have to let some things go." You have to win the larger war, not every battle.
No laws against this, please. But advice? For sure.
And people are correct about what is real ugly. I have a girlfriend with a very cute face. But - she wears thongs, and when she sits down in some pants, her huge white butt hangs out with the thong .... really, REALLY unattractive!
I'll be the first to admit that I'd look ridiculous in these particular outfits. But I DID WEAR "too tight" jeans, parachute pants, and enough "gold" chains to affect my weight. I caught the tail-end of the (first) bell-bottoms and platform shoes rage. I was even an Urban Cowboy complete with 700 dollar hand-made OSTRICH BOOTS. Although I still like the boots, 200 dollar and less JUSTINs and TONY LAMAs from off-the-rack make more sense to a wiser, decidedly un-with-it, me.
These were all simply FASHIONS, that mysterious "uniform of the young and hip" who take pride in NOT looking like Mom and Dad. Peers, not parents, have far more input into this phenomena. It occurs during one of the many levels of maturity and (gasp!) you kids no longer desire or accept your definition of the dress code as pertinent to THEM. If YOU are outraged, then part of their mission is accomplished. I like reading all the commenters who state that they will be the "harbingers of humble haberdashery" and won't tolerate the none-sense. It just makes me smile and reminds me that they've never ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED...pre-teens, tweens, and teens. I'll just volunteer a smidgen of advise to those who think a parental proclamation is all it takes: "CHOOSE YOUR 'FIGHTS' CAREFULLY!"
I hope this over-reaction, like the others, be seen for what it is and pass. Sure, it is offensive to see a fully developed BUTTCRACK "airing out" publically. and yes, underwear IS meant to be WORN UNDER. This war of wills has been fought over and over since the LOIN-CLOTH and the "guardians of the here-and-now" always lose. The "freedom to look foolish" is a prized part of our constitutional Freedom Of Speech and Expression that we all here OBVIOUSLY hold onto as being sacred and non-negotiable. This look is crooked and thuggish, but let's attack the crooks and thugs WITHIN THE RAIMENT without treading all over the rights...and inevitability...of the "fashionably obtuse".
*
I was watching the reissued Eyes on the Prize DVD set the other day and to see civil rights protestors, who seemed to always either be in suits or what we today call "business casual," is to reflect on how low we've sunk.
bb:
"And I'm telling you, as long as a critical mass of women find the look attractive, you can be prejudiced all you want; my son and his peers don't really have time for your hang-ups."
Critical mass of what kind of women? I have never had a problem getting with women and I never had my @$$ hanging out my pants exposing myself to people.
Maybe your son and his friends should evaluate the quality of woman they want to attrack.
As far as thongs, there is a difference
http://www.pubfoto.com/albums/
gi...girls.sized.jpg
I prefer the European version.
Where does it stop? I find fat people in spandex or skin tight clothing, ladies of any size with thongs hanging out their pants, plumbers crack or anyones crack, muffin top girls (girls with too much stomach in a midriff cut shirt), highwater pants, wrinkled pants, men with no shirts, dirty people, stinky people or any number of things disgusting or immoral or bad for the community, but does that mean there needs to be a law.
Which we all know is going to be enforced the same as any other, which is blacks get the brunt of it. I watched CNN's story on this and all I saw was blacks here and there, what about the whites, and the older men with fat bellies that have their pants below those huge stomachs causing their underwear to show. If it was going to be a fair law then we would be seeing them in equal light.
We can't end racism until we stop allowing ourselves to be defined by whites. I don't like the sagging pants anymore than the next person, but hell, you might as well make a law against everything offensive.
[quote]Some of my daughter's friends, who are in colleges up and down the Atlantic Coast and in the south, have worn and/or still wear their pants like this. I don't like it but sagging pants aren't affecting their minds, dreams, and goals.[/quote]
DarkStar
I have a frat brother who had an MBA but he became a mid-level DRUG DEALER and got sent to Federal prison for 7 years. YOUR POINT IS what about College Attendance trumps important social norms.
DarkStar would you:
* Go to a doctor who had his pants drooping down under his lab coat?
* Purchase investments from a stock broker who was "keeping it real" in his dress and personna?
* Complain to the local television news station if they hired a news reporter who wore the "white T's" uniform on camera and spoke ghetto fab ?
You all keep talking about how insular this is. I watched the Scottsboro Boy's recently and noted that Black males were seen as SEXUAL PREDATORS which allowed these boys to be convicted of rape. When I see the pants hanging off of the behinds and the CROTCH HOLDING it is clear to me that SOMEONE WHO HATES BLACK PEOPLE have created this fad.
Our Black community is expert at creating REBELS AND REVOLUTIONARIES.
Or weakness is in creating FUNCTIONAL UNIFORMS so that these PETTY DISTRACTIONS don't rise up and take away important discussion time. The appeal is FOR ME to look the other way as THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT. When will you all social liberals say THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT let us error on the side of "A BOOK IS JUDGED BY ITS COVER".
But let some WHITE MAN make an assumption about a Black candidate based on the dress that he has seen several others wearing THEN you are ready to protest. Other cultures that practice more HUMILITY are benefiting right before us. They are GOING AFTER THE MONEY WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY and a part of this is to HUMBLE THEMSELVES AND THEIR IMAGES AND PROVIDE US WITH THE SERVICES that we are demanding (ie: note the spread of Chinese Buffets like weeds).
We would rather KEEP IT REAL and then REACT to people's REACTIONS to it rather than MANAGING A CERTAIN RANGE OF ACCEPTABILITY.
I marvel at some of you. HISTORIC RACISM, CULTURAL THEFT and ECONOMIC DEPOSITIONING are the release valve that many of you use to explain WHY we are falling short, ABSTRACTING our own CHOICES and BEHAVIOR instead. These kids were born in 1990. While many tell us that OUR CULTURE WAS STOLEN the sad part about it is that in YOUR HIGH MINDED INTELLECTUALNESS you REALIZE that the culture is gone but are impotent in FIELDING A FUNCTIONAL ONE TO-DAMNED-DAY!!!
REBELLION and REVOLUTIONARY THEORY trumps all.
One day you need to come face to face with the CONSEQUENCES of all of your choices as they reside ON YOUR BACK rather than on "Da Mans" the longer you chose DURING YOUR TIME OF FREEDOM to stay were you are.
CS, there are doctors and nurses who tell people not to smoke, yet they do so themselves. And, the dirty secret is, the percentage of doctors and nurses who smoke is greater than the norm. I've been to doctors with ill-fitting clothes. I have high school classmates who are now VP's, suited down M-F, and will dress "urban" on the weekends.
Darkstar:
That is because those "vps" are holding on to low class culture.
I doubt their kids will do that...well unless they to identify with the negritude coming out of the ghetto and appearing on BET, most of them won't.
This is a generational/class thing.
People who come out of that still often have "guilt" for getting out and feel the need to keep it real or actually truly never feel comfortable in this new environment and feel comfortable being ghetto. M-F is an act they have to play.
Kids who do not "come from that" often don't have such "guilt".
Give it a generation or two more.
i think i'm a member of the generation that brought sagging back, so i know it from both sides. i done sagged...hard and relentless...and now i talk about my kids who do it. i know how it is when you get used to wearing your pants like that; wearing them up around the waist feels uncomfortable at first. as with any other change of style, it takes some getting used to.
one thing i tell my kids, though, is this: i was sagging hard when i was in high school in the early 90's. that's 17 years ago. they're still rocking the same styles we did. now, 17 years before i was in high school, bell bottoms and tight pants were in style. we weren't wearing what was in style 17 years earlier.
ultimately, the legislation is foolish. as is the hand-wringing. most people who fall into it grow out of it. some don't, but most do. let people dress how they want.
Cultural Strategist:
Co-sign on your most recent comment.
Avery - Let us depart from "sagging pants". I am not talking about the oversized pants.
I AM TALKING ABOUT A BELT LINE WHICH IS HANGING BELOW ONES BEHIND!!!!
See picture: http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/
msn...061024.300w.jpg
Why did the great Marcus Garvey give out UNIFORMS to the Black people in his group that otherwise knew only oppression and subservience in their lives? Was was the POWER that he saw in uniforms?
While some of you love the REBELLION that these kids are promoting against societal standards you all don't seem to be able to realize that THEY don't have anything to offer when THEY ARE NEEDED TO BECOME THE "SOCIETAL REFERENCE" for a new set of children coming up behind them. You often defer to the notion that "kids will be kids" and that rebellion is a part of it. Unfortunately the historic rebellion by the Beatles to wear their hair long or by those who consumed Jazz is very different than this IGNORANT style of dress that is being promoted as you tacitly DEFEND such ignorance.
Marcus Garvey knew that in order to change the OUTCOME of the downtrodden he had to provide a PATHWAY OF OPPORTUNITY for them. They had UNIFORMS and they gave PARADES through town. In being ON DISPLAY he knew that HIS PEOPLE would be a MAGNET FOR OTHER PEOPLE to say "hey - they are distinctive. I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE THEM!!!". This is how his movement grew several thousand strong.
The key difference is that he provided JOBS AND VOCATION for Black people. Despite the oppressive outside environment he was able to sculpt an alternate channel that lead to a direct increase of productivity for many who were formerly UNEMPLOYED and TUNED OUT mentally. (Just as many of these young people who wear these pants).
My central criticism of you all is not that you are liberal in your views on this subject. My main frustration is that you are always so inclined to say "oh its no big deal" on a case by case basis but you seem to FAIL to make note of the BROAD CANVAS that is being painted as we look at all of this IN AGGREGATE. The question of WHAT COULD THESE PEOPLE BE DOING TO PROMOTE A MORE POSITIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE CULTURAL REFERENCE for those coming 20 or 30 years in the future to key off of.
Again - the issue is not that our CULTURE WAS STOLEN 300 years ago. The issue is that we are CONSCIOUS of this theft and we are FIELDING A DYSFUNCTIONAL culture by our FAILURE to manage what is going on.
The difference between a beautiful flower garden and a yard full of weeds is the ACTIVE INTELLIGENCE AND MANPOWER that is applied to sculpt a certain outcome, preventing the DE FACTO weed garden from HAVING ITS WAY with the landscape. Some of you are bringing fertilizer......TO THE WEEDS via your laze fare attitudes.
oh, when i was talkin about me saggin? i'm talmbout wearin my pants off-the-rump, just like the kids now do. baggy pants didn't really come into style until later. well, let's differentiate between baggy pants as in the genie pants that hammer used to wear, where the look was still defined by wearing the pants up on the waist and the loose-fitting bagginess that went along with wearing straight cut jeans.
Unfortunately the historic rebellion by the Beatles to wear their hair long or by those who consumed Jazz is very different than this IGNORANT style of dress that is being promoted as you tacitly DEFEND such ignorance.
what would you say is the substantive difference? i.e., what makes the saggy pants "worse" than any of the other permutations of "rebellious" subcultural style? (i have my own answers, but i'm curious to hear yours)
at the same time, i maintain that for most people, it's a phase. really, because i deal with kids all the time, i'm actually seeing the nascent stages of the next shift, and i don't like it at all. but if you wanna know who really controls the style? girls. girls could shut the game down by next month.
[quote]what would you say is the substantive difference? i.e., what makes the saggy pants "worse" than any of the other permutations of "rebellious" subcultural style? (i have my own answers, but i'm curious to hear yours)
[/quote]
Dude:
PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE #1: http://www.dallasnews.com/shared...6/
0830pants.jpg
This is all about COUNTER CULTURAL REBELLION. As I watch these males, mostly BLACK MALES walking down the streets with their strides inhibited and having to HOLD THEIR NUTS in order to keep their pants from falling down, Avery, they look more STUPID than they look cool to me.
Please rent the documentary "Scottsboro Boys" which was produced by PBS. It documents how the stereotype of Black males as sexual predators were used to convict these innocent men. With this STUPID fad today - BLACK MALES themselves are painting the picture. I am a man. I believe that I am an authority on the images that are put forth by certain actions. The CUPPING OF THE BALLS as they are walking down the street is a MESSAGE that is put out in an attempt to communicate their sexual prowess.
Avery the reason why this is so different than the Beatles hair or the concerns about Jazz is that IT IS SO EMPTY OF A REBELLIOUS ACT which also has so many TRIGGERS that will negatively fall upon the purveyor of the action. This was formed IN PRISON. It has now spread into the general population of Black Males as something COOL.
The Black community CLAIMS that we want full employment for our young Black males but unfortunately we can't even come to an agreement on a NO BRAINER situation.
I will tell you this - If I had a business in which such a person who would think to wear his clothing this way also was a CUSTOMER FACING RESOURCE representing my business I would not hire him even if he only chose to do this on his personal time.
That is because those "vps" are holding on to low class culture.
Actually, it's "code switching." These same VPs showed up at the reunion sporting EXPENSIVE suits and dresses!
rebellion brought about civil rights, suffrage for women, the U.S.....
but if you wanna know who really controls the style? girls. girls could shut the game down by next month.
Every time I say that, I get shot at by women.
[quote]rebellion brought about civil rights, suffrage for women, the U.S.....[/quote]
Get it right DarkStar - The Civil Rights Movement was a PURPOSEFUL REBELLION.
Please tell me what PURPOSE HAVING YOUR PANTS HANG OFF OF YOUR AZZ is serving?
All rebellion is purposeful, even if misguided.
Having pants off of your behind is a style.
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