I'm all for elminating the rowdy parties. But on the idea of making the first and second year students live on campus... first of all, XU doesn't have enough housing. Only freshmen are guaranteed a spot on-campus.
Plus, parties get worse as students get older- once they're 21, they can legally purchase alcohol for their parties.
Finally, I see that there was a proposition that, after so many offenses, the landlord would be fined, but why not the students? If the students are causing a raucous, they should be held accountable - not the landlord, who may live a state away. People raise very valid points about negligent landlords, but there are also landlords (including one who teaches at the university) who maintain their property well, and they can't act as babysitters over their tenants. Fine the tenant, not the landlord, for rowdiness. Remember, these people may not act like adults, but in the eyes of the law, they are, so slap them with a ticket to pay for the consequences of their behavior.
A new plan of action for you xenophobic ones.
Any loud parties will have cops called on them. Game over. No need for all this cause headed feigning of neighborhood concern. Someone may need attention. And wants to look good.
Real problems are crack heads, hookers, thieves etc. Not some dumb x kid getting loud.
Victory park and surrey square area anyone?
First and second year students on campus. Why don't you dolts build a prison camp for them? You all are crying over nothing. Just had to add that. Now go be a star on Fox news. It's fair and balanced....to the extreme right.
First and foremost, I am a senior at Xavier. I live in Norwood, and most likely I will continue to live in Norwood after I graduate.
Concerning the "loud parties", get over it. Close your windows, lock your doors, and stay inside. Besides, the parties are not even that bad, ever seen a UC party? I understand that on a rare occasion an event can get out of hand, but lets face it, those events are dealt with immediately and punished accordingly. I work, got to school, and pay my bills; why can't I have a large group of friends come socialize/celebrate the weekend?
My next item, if a party does become out of hand/too loud, and the police become involved, there should be no "follow-up" or "communication" between Norwood police and Xavier University. It is about jurisdiction.
Next item in my post. If students are 21 they are not going to be having constant parties because they can buy alcohol. They are going to go to Dana's, downtown, or Mt. Adams. Ever since coming to X students has known these places to be the place to go, but couldn't due to their age. So, they would have house parties.
My last item, I will not be picking trash around the entirety of Norwood. I'm not the only person who lives in Norwood. We all must do our part.
Thank you
You Brad are the reason most people in the neighborhood cannot stand Xavier students.
My first item with you is your condescending smug attitude that oozes from your post.
My next item with you is your incorrect statement that students over twenty one will go to bars and drink. They will still have parties in off campus housing a majority of the time because it is cheaper to have a "kegger" than buy beer all night at a bar.
My next item; Xavier PD does need to be called.You fear them more than the Norwood PD. The reason is the student code of conduct follows you when off campus.
My last item, with the attitude you have, I expect you will soon be picking up trash during a Saturday morning work detail along with your fellow students.
Scott: First of all, xenophobia has no bearing on the issue at hand; and secondly, what on earth is "cause headed feigning"?
Brad: Brush up on your verb tenses and comma usage
"Grow Up": 'THE condescending, smug attitude WHICH oozes from your post' would be more appropriate, and for the sake of style I would juxtapose "condescending" and "smug". Moreover, between your misled logic and cautious handling of the term "kegger", it is evident that you have grown somewhat out of touch with the realities of college life. In order for a keg to be more cost-effective than a visit to the local watering hole, there would be so few partakers that noise could hardly be an issue. Finally, the notion that Xavier students fear campus police more than Norwood Police is laughable in its naiveté; I'll allow you in all your sagacious glory to concoct an interpretation for why this is so.
The fact that the only comment which does not offend the sensibilities of a self-respecting English speaker was left anonymously says nothing good about the quality of either Xavier students or Norwood residents. Bear in mind that it is rather difficult for an argument to be taken seriously when its proponent rambles on like a babbling fool.
Approximate cost of a 2- 1/2 barrels with deposit: 200.00
Approximate amount of beer in each barrel: 165 - 12 oz cups (total 330)
Cost per person at door to cover cost of beer/ice/snacks/etc: $5.00
Approximate number of attendees: 50
(is this "so few partakers?")
Approximate beers per person: >5
Approximate cost of 12 oz can/bottle of beer at local "watering hole": $2.50
Cost of approximate cover charge on weekends to same local "watering hole" :$5.00
Total cost at residential house: $5.00
Total cost at watering hole: 17.50
It's easy math. Try it yourself when you get down off that high horse.
I'm a junior at Xavier and live in the Norwood area. Being able to speak on behalf of many of the students, we understand that you are upset from some of the party’s off-campus. Our house especially has taken action to eliminate parties, especially during the weekdays. Now with regards to the weekends, I think that is where we can come to an agreement. We understand that you have a family and work during the week and the weekday parties can be a large disruption of that lifestyle. We are just trying to live out our college years the best that we can (i.e. drinking and having fun) and do not intentionally mean to make your life a living hell.
I think that the best solution to this is not to involve Xavier Police or Norwood Police. That action will only further escalate the situation and anger the student population in Norwood. And yes, I understand that many of the non-residents are angry as well. The best solution is for people who have a problem to contact their student neighbors and explain to them their situation. Students will take that approach much better and will give you the respect and acknowledgment that you wish for with respect to your families and lifestyle. Get your student neighbors cell phone number and if there is a problem call them and tell them to quiet down. If they do not comply, then you have the opportunity to call the police. But I can guarantee that most students, including my housemates and myself, will be respectful and acknowledge your request.
If students eliminate the need for large and loud weekday parties, would the citizens of Norwood be more lenient and understanding in regards to weekend parties?
Try this approach because I guarantee that if you approach the students nicely and understanding, they will be just as respectful back to you and your family’s wishes. If not then I am sorry and I cannot speak for them. The majority of students understand your situation and concern, but want you to understand ours (even though it may be hard) as well. Many of you were in college at one point in time as well, and we just want to make it some of the most fun years of our lives.
Dear "Who is Out of Touch",
You will be disappointed to learn that my high horse is doing as well as ever. I reviewed your calculations and made some modifications to improve their accuracy. I accepted your estimate of 50 guests, reasoning the per capita intake of 6.6 beers which that would entail to be fairly reasonable. Assuming that the deposits are redeemed, the cost of Keystone Light is $70.95 for a 1/2 barrel and for Natural Light the cost is $76.95 (These are by far the most common contents of kegs at Xavier parties). Using the cheaper alternative, I find the true cost of two kegs to be $141.90, and adding to that $15 for the approximate cost of ice and cups (snacks are an unheard of luxury at college parties), I arrive at a total of $156.90 (call it $157). Assuming that the house hosting the hypothetical party consists of 5 residents, this leaves 45 guests. Using the rather conservative estimate that 40% (18)of those guests are female, and thus exempt from the $5 cover cost, and furthermore assuming that each resident allows even one or two personal friends free entry (standard practice at Xavier parties, for a total of, say, eight), the revenues extracted from the remaining 19 guests total $95. The deficit of $62 would naturally be borne collectively, bringing the monetary cost of the party to between $12 and $13 per resident. This leaves each resident with a $5 savings over the cost of going to a bar. The true economic costs of any decision, however, must include more than just financial considerations. In this case, the extra-monetary costs of the party would involve the potential damage to property which is almost inevitable as well as the necessity of cleaning up after the mess left by the guests (which is considerable, generally requiring that the floors be mopped, the bathrooms scrubbed, garbage disposed of, and possessions reorganized). Thus, the real question for students over the age of 21 is whether they would rather forgo $5 or spend their mornings cleaning and lamenting their damaged belongings.
In order for a keg party to be a sufficiently attractive alternative to a night at the bar, certain measures can be taken, such as splitting the cost of the keg between a handful of people and consuming it over the course of several evenings. However, this results in a party of such small scale as to be unlikely to generate a noise complaint, which was my original point exactly. Happily, my high horse happens to be as competent a mathematician as yourself.
Peter, two words: Simply amazing.
I really don't even know where to begin with this comment. I am a Xavier student and have experienced first-hand much of Norwood's frustration lately. First off, Halloween weekend one of my friends was ARRESTED for operating a disorderly house. If I a reading your plans correctly, first phone call should be a warning. He was ARRESTED. He now is facing a court date and I am sure will be given community service much like a few of my other friends have already experienced.
If we are going to work together on this I don't think arresting every Xavier student is going to solve anything. Knowing the mentality of many college students and young people, rebellion seems to be a common theme for many. When you take extreme measures to try to control actions many young people tend to rebel. For those of you who have families think of your own children and how they act, or even think of how you were as a young adult. Would this work for you?
On another note, just last evening 4 of my friends and I were calmly watching the news following the presidential election. When the projected presidential winner was announced we were very excited about this historic moment and decided to cheer outside; for about 2-3 minutes. We then proceeded to return into the house to continue watching the news. Not even 10 minutes later we received a knock on our door- Norwood Police. Apparently an angry and malicious neighbor decided to call the police on us for being excited that our country had finally given someone of another race a chance for the equality that they rightly deserve. We were told that if they had to return we would all be cited for a noise violation.
Now let's take this same situation but apply it to non-Xavier students celebrating something such as a Bengals football win, or even the same thing as the presidential election. I have a strong feeling that the police would not be called...it is hard for me to put a term to this but I am thinking age discrimination and harassment? Just a thought.
Upset,
When I was a 24 year-old working adult, I had a small dinner party in my apartment with about 5 guests. It was a very congenial group, there was no music playing, but we laughed ourselves silly most of the evening. Just after everyone left around 11:00 p.m., a policeman knocked on my door because a neighbor had complained about the noise. Should I have been upset our merriment had disturbed others to the point of calling the police? I don't think so, and I wasn't. Taking your celebration outside late on Election Night (wasn't Obama announced at 11:00 p.m.?) wasn't considerate of others who, for all you know, might have been asleep before having to rise at some ungodly hour like 5:00 a.m. What's your problem with being warned and not arrested?
Regarding your friend you say was arrested for operating a disorderly house, my understanding is that only landlords/property owners can be charged with operating disorderly houses, not the tenants. Isn't it more likely your friend was arrested for being disorderly? Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the police have a certain amount of discretion about whether or not to make an arrest, depending on what they observe, the seriousness of the circumstances,the behavior of the suspect., etc.
If you've got the time to do a little research, you can answer your own question about whether Xavier students are being targeted for noise complaints. Anyone can go the Norwood police station and ask to see all the incident reports going back several years. That would be proof positive if your thought has any validity or not.
Tell me something, if you know. Are Xavier students who live on campus allowed to have keg parties with music blaring until all hours?
Anonymous,
I have a few things to respond to your comments. I understand that people have to get up early for work, myself being one of those people, however I feel that a noise disturbance would be something more of a constant disturbance rather than 2-3 minutes of cheering. I am very happy that I wasn't arrested but I still think that the call wasn't necessary.
As to the arrest of my friends, I talked to 4 of them who have been arrested in the last month and they all were charged with operating a disorderly house, 3 of them received 40 hours of community service and one is still awaiting trial.
I am planning to get involved in this issue, I would like to make some compromises with residents because this situation seems to have impeded on both the lives of students and residents who are non-Xavier students.
As to the comment about keg parties and music blaring, I truly hope this wasn't a sarcastic comment because I am planning on answering it seriously. No students who live on campus are not allowed to have keg parties, at least not if they live in the dorms. I also don't think you are allowed to have keg parties in the campus owned apartments, but you are allowed to drink in these as long as you are 21. There are quiet hours starting usually around 10 p.m. on weekdays and 1 a.m. on weekends. Students are usually warned the first time unless they are in violation often enough for disciplinary action to be taken.
I was wondering if you had any idea where I could look up Norwood City ordinances, I wanted to see some of the wording for these because I wanted to check about the disorderly house ordinance. Thanks for any help you can lend.
Upset,
To obtain copies of local ordinances, call the Norwood Law Director's office in City Hall at 458-4585. I commend you for wanting to get involved in the issue.
No, I didn't ask my question with sarcasm. I simply don't know what's allowed on campus in the way of student revelry. I'm aware from reading the Xavier Newswire that Xavier Campus Police both cite and arrest students for violating Xavier's policies regarding illegal alcohol and drug use and the like.
Is there as much antagonism among students against XCP's enforcement of university policies as there seems to be against the NPD for enforcing Norwood's ordinances? I'm asking this because I sense that somehow some Xavier students do not understand or appreciate that our ordinances are actually law and are not merely suggestions on how all residents should behave with a special leniency for Xavier students.
As for your 2-3 minute outdoor celebration, I'm not sure why you don't seem consider that it might take only 1 minute or less to wake up a neighbor, one who just might be sick to death of repeat student initiated sleep disturbances... perhaps a case of the straw that broke the camel's back.
Anonymous,
Thank you for the help with the ordinances!
As to the revelry, which is a great word choice by the way, to tell you the truth I think that students are a little more threatened on campus than off-campus. I think this because there is the immediate threat of RAs, XCP, and hall directors. When students live off-campus I think this is when they feel it is their chance to be "on their own" but can sometimes take that to the extreme, such as unacceptable behaviors that many residents have to face. I myself have been one of these people, but I realize now that some student's actions are making it tough for everyone.
I know that these reasons or I guess excuses for some people's actions doesn't make it okay, and actually some people who take it to the extreme have made it very tough for anyone who just wants to have a small gathering of friends. My roommates and I are afraid now to have only a few people over because we don't want to be cited for a noise violation or disorderly house. It seems that it has gotten to much for residents, as I feel with some of your comments, and as you said the camel's back has already been broken. It isn't fair that you and other residents have to go through the anxiety that may be caused from my fellow students, but I also don't like that some of us who don't want to have blow out parties but small gatherings still have to live in a sort of fear.
There are ways I believe that these things can be worked out for a comfortable living situation for both students and residents, just getting to that point is going to be the struggle. The truth is, some college students will always want to party regardless of what happens, but I agree that things need to get under control. I think many XU students feel that residents are trying to completely wipe out any sort drinking around Norwood and to punish anyone who tries to drink even with just a few friends. I know this isn't true but I think the best way to try to change things without creating a rebellion of Xavier students would be to involve us as much as possible in the decisions that are made. The more we feel like you actually care and are willing to work with us the better our response and willingness to change will be.
Upset,
You're welcome.
You'll be pleased to know that 4 or 5 Xavier students attended the Sunday meeting of the newly formed South Norwood Neighborhood Association at Russ Johnson's house, along with a landlord who owns 4 Xavier houses. It was great to have them there, and they were very helpful in answering questions. I think you are quite right about involving students in the solutions.
I've lived next door to a Xavier house for 9 years, and there have been very few problems. I made a point of getting to know the landlord, and he has always been quick to address the few complaints I've made. I got to know the first batch of students pretty well - all male and very polite and personable.
One of them was an entrepreneur who started a small landscaping business I used for a major backyard project for which I paid him over $2,000. Currently, I intermittently employ one of the female students next door for sitting purposes. She's a joy to have in my home. Oh, and about 4 years ago, one of the students knocked on my door and introduced herself, gave me her phone number and said she wanted to be a good neighbor.
She was just that.
In brief, I've not had bad experiences, but neighbors less than a block away from me are under siege, some for many years. I have total empathy for them and support their efforts to put an end to what is a major quality of life issue. I think they're going about it in all the right ways - it sounds like you could add a lot to the conversation.
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