Don't have much time to comment now but I will post something about this later on our blog.
But here's a few points:
-Whitfield preached outside because he wasn't allowed to preach inside. What was new wasn't the method of preaching but rather the power with which he preached.
- The church is loosing ground only where it has rejected the supernatural. We want to be sophisticated, intellectual, 21st cetury children of enlightenment materialists and still believe in God. Choose sides. There is very little differnece between the modern churches rejection of miracles, "They don't happen now," and Hume's rejection of miracles, "They never happen."
- Re: early church growth. According to Ramsey McMullin, big wig church historian at Harvard, the growth of the early church within the Roman empire is attributed to: Not apologetic preaching or writing but to one on one coversations "… about the proofs of the truth of Christianity and those proofs would lie in exorcisim above
Yes, but the Whitfield analogy is appropriate because i am talking about men and women who think about reform but are not allowed to "in the structure" now have access to proclaim in the no walls arena of blogging. I am seeing a great deal of blessing to speak very freely in this realm. I speak freely otherwise but here I feel the possiblity of unlimited influence. I am saying all things being equal with respect to power.
brad
Bran,
I not sure that responding to Descartes is necessarily "extreme measures." If you are not familiar with Lesslie Newbigin, a romp through his book Proper Confidence might be helpful. Proper Confidenceis a look at Michael Polanyi’s, book Personal Knowledge.
Winn,
No I agree I will make a very strong response against the rationalism of Descarte. BUT...I think the way the emergent folk respond to descarte isn't precise. People respond with too broad a brush.
brad
I finally home. I didn't realize there was 1000 word limit on comments until I tried to publish by first comment and realized that about 1/2 of it had been cut off. Which is too bad because in the second half I revealed the true meaning of everything
The point of the Ramsey McMullin quote is that people are not won over by argument but by reality, The Church in the west is loosing ground because it doesn't do anything.
I like to think about it this way, it's not that God is dead but rather that the need for God is dead. Who needs God when you have health insurance? Who needs God when you've got pharmeceuticals? Who needs God when you've got a job?
I think Blog's are great. I agree that they multiply an individuals ability to minister. Shoot, somebody from the UK through google read an article about hope I have posted on our weblog. Blog's are a great megaphone. But megaphone of what? What the Church needs is something to say. Like the guy from SC said the Church spends most of it's time answering questions that noone is asking.
That's what Luther had. That's what Whitefield had. That's what Wesley got.
brad,
And sometimes with too much reaction, more heat than light. It's easy to deconstruct, it's a bit more difficult to reconstruct something different that what one has deconstructed.
Greg and Winn,
We are entirely on the same page!! Greg "People learn from reality" EXACTLY!! Thisis why I say "Morally Beautiful Community" It is what people see that is most important. By the way I am a supernatural empiricist. I wrote "why aesthetics is important in the posts below (somewhere - it is all a blur).
Winn, re-construction. That is my point. I have the vision and now to, as Francis of Assisi said, "Re-build the church".
Love you guys,
God Bless,
brad
Check out J. Scott Horrell, From the Ground Up. I think that he has put his finger on the problem: we have become shoddy in our definition of the church! Most people, when they think of "church" think of (1) the building; (2) Sunday as "the Sabbath"; (3) a worship service; and (4) a paid pastor.
But the primary meaning of the term is "gathering." When believers gather to hear biblical truth taught or preached, where they seek God's presence and expect answers in prayer, and where they expect to serve the living Christ in obedience - there you have a church. When the assembly breaks up, the church is gone.
This, of course, is only one of four fields of meaning for the term, but it is the one that needs to be resurrected and applied to our ccongregations today!
Iteresting thoughts. I look forward to reading and pondering some more.
Peace and love my brother in Christ.
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