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I'm sorry... could you elaborate on what you see as the difference between these two pastors' approaches to preparing folks for the sacraments? It may be clear to you, but I'm not quite seeing it yet...
I think the big difference is personal knowledge/relationship/accountability.
The first pastor knew the person coming, knew that unless something had changed this person should not and likely would not be served, and he did his best to make sure that the person was coming rightly to receive with an open and contrite heart.
I suppose I don't know enough about the second situation beyond what I stated, but several questions came to mind regarding personal accountability. Did the candidates receive adequate/appropriate catechism? Did the pastor know enough about each candidate to know if baptism was the right step for them in their journey? Had any of the candidates been baptized before and was there a discussion about the issues involved with re-baptism?
So to me my question in comparing the two is one of accountability and responsibility between the pastor (who is to be rightly administering the sacrament) and the participant (who is seeking to receive the sacrament).
Does one's personal desire alone quality them to receive a sacrament? Or should there be more to "right administration of the sacraments" that catering to personal desire?
The first pastor would seem to say no, receiving the sacrament requires something more than an expression of personal desire. The second pastor seems to say this is available to any who would want it.
If there is more than personal desire, what is the more? and What is my role in the more. That is what I'm wrestling with.
Ah, I see. Thanks. (Did you forget to log in, Anonymous?)
When I read that the baptism case involved an entire worship service centered around the sacrament, including the message, my assumption was that the pastor taught clearly, including who should be baptized, why, etc. Of course, that could be an incorrect assumption on my part.
I do think a case could be made from Scripture for "on the spot" baptism, without any extended catechism beforehand (beyond a preaching/teaching moment, I mean). How well did the apostles know the 3,000 who believed and were baptized after Peter's Pentecost sermon? What relationship did Philip have with the Ethiopian?
I guess I'd say that personal desire is enough, once the sacrament has been explained. The person's decision to participate in the sacrament is testimony to their faith. My role and responsibility is to present the sacrament clearly.
Those are my initial thoughts, anyway.
I always forget to log on. I don't know exactly what was contained in the sermon. I realize I may be stretching the examples a bit, but I think the questions are still valid. Thanks for the response.
I believe that as a Pastor we need to do our best to prepare people to receive the sacraments. It would seem that the first Pastor allowed the young man to receive Holy Communion, based on his personal profession of faith in God, not really knowing much about his conversion. Only that something had changed about his atheism. Thanks be to God that the young man had come to faith in Christ, even though it would be much more in keeping with the catholic faith for a new convert to receive Baptism before receiving Holy Communion. As Baptism is the sacrament of initiation into the Church of God. In the CotN I have know people to have received Communion for sometime before they received Baptism. I think that it is good to prepare our people for receiving the sacrament of Baptism, but at the same time I do not think that we need to delay baptism, if a person has repented and believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and desires to be Baptized sooner then later. Even thogh I understand that John Wesley did allow unbaptized people to receive the Lord's Supper as a converting ordinance. Even though I'm sure that he would not cosider it the norm. Plus I think that in the CotN we have probally taken to great a liberty with that freedom. It would seem that we often put the cart before the horse in reguards to the sacraments.
Peace,
Steven
I don't have much to say about this post except perhaps that when it comes to that which extends the grace of God, our preparation is nice and indeed necessary at some level...but at the ultimate level of sacrament we understand that this is an act of the grace of God.
But I'm really commenting just to say that I saw the shout out in the e-mail from TWOTP. Nice one, Brannon.
- J
Tangent...
Hey Jeremy. How's the Stone book coming??
Jeremy - I didn't even know they had done that until I saw your comment - that's pretty awesome! I corresponded a bit w/ Travis from TWOTP in the aftermath of what was a much longer email to him intially about how I've put their resources to work. I'm pleasantly surprised that he reprinted some of my email in such a public forum as their newsletter - and of course, a GREAT shout-out from them just to have the blog featured like that...very cool.
Incidentally, I just returned from the WTS meeting in Anderson, IN. Was hoping more of you that populate this space - especially you Ohio folks - would have been there so some of us could finally meet in person! maybe in the future...I did see Steve "Steve J" Johnson, Todd "Wesleyan-Anglican" Stepp, J.B. Chapman, and Dave Belcher (sorry, no nicknames for you last 2). I'll probably try to put a post together soon about some of the papers and discussions I was involved in that centered around sacramental and liturgical renewal. It was a good time - my first experience (experiment?) with the WTS, but I'm sure not my last. I was encouraged (mostly) by the conversations and camaraderie relevant to the focus of this blog...wish more of us could have been together, though.
On that note of getting us together: after my dissertation is done and dusted (this spring, all being well), and after everyone who's going gets back from General Assembly, we'll think toward about having some kind of retreat in the Fall. I'd like to see if I can entice Robert Benson to come be our special guest, and I might need to begin planning this far out if I want that to happen. More details to follow...also, if anyone wants to help me organize such a gathering, or just wants to ring in that you'd do everything in your power to come, do let me know so I can get a feel for whether it would be 6-8 of us, or, like 15+...we could always open it up to others we know who aren't involved on this blog necessarily but who are passionate about liturgical renewal and the sacramental life.
peace, y'all.
Brannon
Sorry, I've been outside the blogsophere for so long! The latest edition of Charisma magazine had a great article on this topic! I think you find it at perrystone.charimamag.com.
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