I listened to the interview today. Tim did a great job!
Karen Kovaka | 09.21.05 - 3:17 pm | #

Hi there,

Have you guys been reading the latest problems with Al Mohler and his stance on alcohol? It would be good to see this issue being discussed amongst "the young people".

http://www.stevekmccoy.com/ refor...alcohol_an.html
One Salient Oversight | Homepage | 09.21.05 - 7:29 pm | #

One Salient Oversight: I plan on responding to that or having a guest poster on that soon.
Agent Tim | Homepage | 09.22.05 - 10:45 am | #

One Salient Oversight: Same here. Alex or I (or possibly a guest poster) will be addressing the issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Brett Harris | Homepage | 09.22.05 - 11:37 am | #

Hello again,

You might want to read this - it was posted today at the Reformissionary website:
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September 22, 2005


An Open Letter to Southern Baptist Pastors and Southern Seminary Faculty

I am deeply grateful for the ministry of Dr. Al Mohler and Southern Seminary. I enjoy Dr. Mohler’s web log on a consistent basis and find him to be theologically erudite, compassionate, and warmly evangelical --- a rare mix in Southern Baptist circles.

However, after listening to the forum discussion at Southern Seminary regarding the Christian’s use of alcohol, I found myself surprised at President Mohler’s illogical, not to mention unbiblical, conclusions regarding alcohol.

Dr. Mohler advocated total abstinence among Southern Baptists, not so much on biblical grounds (where mandatory abstinence cannot be supported), but on covenantal grounds. Most church covenants, and definitely Southern Seminary’s covenant, calls for total abstinence and ties discipline to the violation of the covenant.

Mohler makes statements like, “I dare exaggerate not, 99% of all doors of SBC ministry will be closed to you” if you, as a pastor, do not advocate total abstinence.

He further calls those who refuse to preach abstinence “high bound and unthinking,” and a person “whom a SBC church would not take a risk to call as pastor.”

I am fearful Dr. Mohler has spent too many years in the ivory tower of SBC denominationalism and has sacrificed his earlier commitment to biblical exegesis and church reform.

The question that should be asked is this, “Should total abstinence be a part of a church covenant?" This debate is not be about underage drinking. The laws of the land should, and must, be obeyed by believers. However, is it right for a Southern Baptist church to make a person of age vow to abstain from drinking an alcoholic beverage and then promise discipline if they refuse to abide by the covenant?

I pastor a church that averages over fifteen hundred in regular attendance. I preach the Scriptures in an expositional manner, hold to a high view of the Word of God, and our church practices biblical discipline, always disciplining with grace and an eye toward restoration of the offending member.

When I came as pastor of this church fourteen years ago one of the first things I did was lead the church to change the church covenant. I led the church to take out the sentence “I vow to abstain from the use of alcoholic beverages” on the grounds that I, as Senior Pastor, refused to lead our church to discipline anyone whose personal conscience allowed him to drink alcoholic beverages. We did, however, add the sentence to our covenant, “I vow to abstain from drunkenness” after explaining that this was the biblical ethic.

Sure, there were those in our church who disagreed. But the vast majority (98%) in our church appreciated the thoroughly biblical approach to covenantal fellowship, and even more understood that to discipline a p
One Salient Oversight | Homepage | 09.22.05 - 8:59 pm | #

Sure, there were those in our church who disagreed. But the vast majority (98%) in our church appreciated the thoroughly biblical approach to covenantal fellowship, and even more understood that to discipline a person for drinking alcohol could not be supported by Scripture and would even be harmful to the body of Jesus Christ. How harmful?

Allow me to carry Dr. Mohler’s logic to an area that Southern Baptist are unusually silent about --- food. There would be some who say that food and alcohol cannot be compared because food does not alter a person physiologically. Really?

What about the astronomically high number of cases of diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, and other physical problems associated with the consumption of high calorie desserts at our church fellowships? Why don’t we discipline people for the sin of eating the “wrong” foods?

Have you looked at the average weight of Southern Baptists compared to overseas evangelicals? Go on any mission trip and sit in the airport and watch people walk the terminal. You will be able to spot the Americans, and more than likely, distinguish the Southern Baptists from the rest of the Americans.

Allow me to tread even a tad further onto this dangerous ice. Most Southern Baptists who advocate total abstinence of alcohol do so while holding a pen in their fleshy fingers, or preaching this doctrine behind pulpits where they stand portly and rotund as they shake a fat finger at those who sin by drinking alcohol.

Again, why don’t we discipline people who overeat? Other than the fact most pulpits would then be vacated by disciplined pastors, I would propose we don’t discipline for overeating because this “sin” is not in our church covenants, and rightly so!

Am I being harsh?

No, I am seeking to prove a point.

The problem in our Baptist churches is that we have ceased preaching exegetically on the subject of alcohol and have succumbed to the temptation of identifying all alcohol as “sin.” The Bible never calls “alcohol” a sin, the Bible calls “drunkenness” a sin. Anybody who drinks alcohol in moderation is easily within the sacred ethic of Scripture regarding Christian living.

Mohler says, “But why would you invite a person into a snare (alchohol)?”

Answer? The same reason you would invite a person to eat your Oreo cookie delight dessert. The sin is not the drink or the food, the sin is overindulgence in the life of the person who consumes too much of either.

To carry Dr. Mohler’s argument against alcohol over to food, you would have to teach something that sounds as ridiculous as the following:

“There are some kinds of food that are sin for Christians. Anything over 500 calories per serving (cheesecake, French fries, etc . . . ) leads to the destruction of your body, which is God’s temple. Therefore, it is best for Christians to totally abstain from those fatty, high caloric foods that others in our culture might find acceptable. Further, we covenant together as
One Salient Oversight | Homepage | 09.22.05 - 9:00 pm | #

“There are some kinds of food that are sin for Christians. Anything over 500 calories per serving (cheesecake, French fries, etc . . . ) leads to the destruction of your body, which is God’s temple. Therefore, it is best for Christians to totally abstain from those fatty, high caloric foods that others in our culture might find acceptable. Further, we covenant together as God’s people to not eat these foods when we gather together, and if someone does eat those particular foods, we will discipline them for the good of the body as a whole (pardon the pun).”

Surely Dr. Mohler is aware that the first missionary offering for Carey’s mission in India was gathered as a spittoon was passed around the pastor’s meeting? Surely Dr. Mohler is aware that the records of our first Baptist associations in England recorded the sales of “gin and ale” and the proceeds were used for the support of our Baptist mission work?

Baptists made a mistake during the Prohibition Era of the United States by placing a personal vow of “total abstinence” of alcohol in church covenants. It is very appropriate for a Christian to personally abstain from alcohol, but I believe it is illogical, unbiblical, and eventually harmful to call upon others to vow to abstain from alcohol as well. Let it be a matter of conscience, not covenant.

The Biblical mandate is moderation.

The historical Baptist position is moderation.

The logical position regarding alcohol is moderation.

To all those Seminary students who are looking toward ministry in a world that is in need of a Savior, I would encourage you to not let silly peripheral issues cause you to lose sight of the glorious, saving gospel of Jesus Christ that we are called to proclaim.

I would urge each pastor to lead his church to covenant on the basis of Biblical principles and not cultural standards that change with the whims of man.


In His Grace,


Wade Burleson
Pastor, Emmanuel Baptist Church, Enid, Oklahoma
President, The Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma (2002-2004)
Chairman, The Southern Baptist Denominational Calendar Committee (1996)
Trustee, The International Mission Board, SBC (2005 – Present)
One Salient Oversight | Homepage | 09.22.05 - 9:01 pm | #

One Salient,
Can you drop me an email with links and such? agenttimblog@gmail.com will work. I talked breifly with Dr. Mohler about the issue, and just need the vital links and such.

Appreciate it,
Tim
Agent Tim | Homepage | 09.23.05 - 5:54 pm | #