Wow, Jesse for a moment I thought I was on Pandagon. Well said if he wants to be POTUS he must treat All the people with respect. This reminds of that moment of Bush with Angela Merkel.
Maybe her name was Sweetie 
Equating "sweetie" with "boy" is really a bridge to nowhere. You could equate it to her calling someone "hon" or ..... well, like that time she sashayed across the set to chris mathews, even rubed his face in a rather sexually suggestive manner, while saying simlar "hon" type language. That would be more equal in a comparison I think.
So he actually apologized then? I don't recall if hillary did when she did that to chris mathews..... not to him but to women everywhere for acting so unprofessionally. I don't think she did. hmmmmmmm
Men don't get to call women "sweetie", "honey", or "darling," and they sure as hell don't get to do so as nominee presumptive for POTUS.
They might if they actually know the person or are somewhat friendly with them, or if the person is friendly enough with them to be able to say "Cut the 'sweetie' shit, pal." Not, though, if it is the arms-length relationship that candidate/reporter ought to be.
Thank you, Jesse.
humm, it seems whenever I am in a resturante every watress calls every one sweetie...soem peole do that ...big BIG differeance between that and callign an african american "boy", lots of baggiage connected to the second phrase, not so much to the fitrst. "sweeite" is often used as a genaric honorific by lots of folks....sorry if that dosn't fit YOUR regional snesabilities...the countrie is more then the coasts.
Myrtle June -
It was a bullshit apology in my view, because he didn't promise to stop using the language with other women.
Sincere apologies include commitments to clean up the underlying issues which allowed the breakdown to occur.
This is the problem people have with Clinton's attempted turn-around on the war. She hasn't ever committed to cleaning up her underlying commitment to doing the expedient act in the moment. So she isn't trusted when it comes to "optional" wars, by many of us.
In the same way, I need to see Obama stop dismissing the left wing of his party when it is politically easy to do so. Sorry, let me say that again.
I don't have an issue with him moving to the center and ignoring us in terms of wining the election. I have a HUGE problem with him acting in a sexist manner, or behaving in a way which is not liberal.
This would be an example of that.
I'm trying to think of any time where I'd say something like "sweetie" or "honey" or some similar diminutive, and I just can't do it. He really needs to cut that crap out.
I do like how as jesses girl is finaly hit the end of the line he has to dreg up none stories liek this crap....way to hold true to form jesse.
Thank you for this piece, Jesse. And it is not a "non issue" - it goes to the heart of the way women are generally treated in our culture: With a pat on the head, treated as subordinate, expected to eat sh*t. And please don't toss up the rare Congressperson or Senator - most women at all levels/walks of life are viewed generally as somehow "less than".
We won't even go into the way women are still objectified by the culture, or paid less than men for doing the same job, still don't have access to the levers of power here, etc., etc.
(Obviously, those of you who don't behave this way are the exceptions - I'm not talking about you.)
And wrt waitresses: They are in a subordinate (serving) position, so their friendliness/casual use of "sweetie" does not diminish the person to whom they speak.
What Seitan said. My own boss is about 5 years younger than me, but get so much as one drink in him and all of a sudden it's arms around the female employees that he deems "femme" enough (did I mention that I am also about 3" taller than him, and could fit him in my Timbuk2 Messenger Bag?). I mean, at least he cut out the "arms on the shoulder" thing for this one girl when, drunk, she came out as a lipstick lesbian (and boy was he horrified). However, I digress...the point being that I the tables were turned; if I slung an arm around a younger male subordinate the rumor mill wouldn't stop; I'd be this aggressive cougar pushy oversexed bitch.
I support Obama, but that doesn't mean that his shit doesn't stink.
"Can you imagine Senator Obama pulling this crap on a male reporter?"
Sure. But I guess he would call him "buddy" instead.
Imho not evidence of rampant sexism by Obama, but another example of political correctness running amok. Yawn. And I'm sure nobody will accuse me of being a fanatic Obama apologist...
Seitan Worshiper: you are being too spacific, all minorites in this countery are seen as lesser creatures. It anit just a women thing...and yes minoriteis crap all over each other as they climb the ladder t obe seen as white (it worked for teh italians and the irsh).
that still dson't make obamas use of a ganaric honorific a major issue.
Obama called her "sweetie."
He apologized on her voice-mail.
End of story.
I don't have a problem with it, but I can understand how others would.
"It was a bullshit apology in my view, because he didn't promise to stop using the language with other women."
-And IF he had said it, you wouldn't have believed him.
For the record, I don't generally call anyone Sweetie. Or honey. Or boy for that matter. But I offer a few thoughts.
First, I get called sweetie on a regular basis here in Ireland. No one would mistake me for female. If getting called sweetie upsets you this much, would you mind never visiting this country? We Americans have a bad enough reputation as it is.
Second... well, I'll let The Onion make this point: http://www.theonion.com/content/
...ceptable_things
(as an aside I find "God bless America" to be offensive since I'm an atheist, so it's really down to three phrases)
Third, my grandmother, born in the late 1890s, lived her live in Illinois and Kansas. She would have been around the same age as Obama's grandparents. She called loads of people sweetie - including grown women. She's no longer alive, but if you want to call her sexist feel free. I'd only ask that you also thank her for the right to vote as she was very active in the suffrage movement.
One other stray thought -- if Sen. Obama was really a sexist, do you honestly think that Mrs. Obama would stand for it?
You're correct, Jesse, although the histrionics are a bit much.
Calling a woman you don't know personally "sweetie" in a work situation (unless she calls you "dear" first, as many waitresses do) is unacceptable and unprofessional. No excuses in PC America ca. 2008, especially for a politician. Obama has to get used to the fact that, for the next four years, all of his time in public and most of his time in private is going to be a work situation.
By his apology (which is a foreign word to Hillary) and promise to do better (which I will hold him to), I think he gets that. I don't read the "bad habit" comment as downplaying the sexist nature of the comment, but rather an acknowledgment that sexism is indeed a habit of the the mind, one that's negative and self-destructive, and one that he needs to break.
And regarding "deliberately" calling her voice mail, give me a break. I know you want to pump this up a little, but that speculation is just silly. You call someone, sometimes you get the person, sometimes you get voicemail. Even Obama, with his mighty psychic powers and non-private Caller ID, could neither guess which would happen, nor force the reporter to share the tape.
as a personal note my wife and I had anotehr kid last week....3 long hours of labor, during wich the nurses and doctors(one male one female) called my wife Sweetie constently...are tehy also in "subordinate" positions? (peorsoanly Idon't see any line of work putting one in a lessser position to the rest of us outside of politition. they are public servants after all).
its a midwestern thing, its a genaric honorifc used in many situations....there is more to the country then the west coast, language is used diffrently...yes obama needs to genarcise his language a bit, but this sin't a big deal...definatly a nonissue.
I do liek how all the useual suspects are tryign to push this into beign a story....your girl is done, its tiem to move on.
"Sure. But I guess he would call him "buddy" instead.
Imho not evidence of rampant sexism by Obama, but another example of political correctness running amok. Yawn. And I'm sure nobody will accuse me of being a fanatic Obama apologist..."
It's definitely a cultural difference between America and other countries. I'll agree that very often in American society, it is PC run amok. But in the workplace, where women have worked so hard to achieve senior positions and the respect that goes with them, the term "sweetie" is freighted with gender, where "buddy" isn't. In those situations, it's less about PC than respect and professionalism for individuals.
As people get to know each other in the workplace, they get less prickly about these things, and the diminutives become accepted as they're intended: casual signs of mutual affection or familiarity. It's still not a good idea to call the senior managers "buddy" or "sweetie," though. 
"as a personal note my wife and I had anotehr kid last week"
Congratulation, moonglum.
"Usual suspects?" There are many of us who are Obama supporters included upthread, which is why some of us may be disappointed (if that's the word I want - perhaps surprised) by his choice of verbiage.
And regarding "deliberately" calling her voice mail, give me a break. I know you want to pump this up a little, but that speculation is just silly.
And criticizing Obama's cowardice by saying he lacked the "ovaries" (as opposed to an idiom for the male genitalia) to call her in person? I hope you have the stones to forgo criticism of Maureen Dowd the next time she describes Obama in feminine terms.
PS to OTD: Thank you for "getting it."
thanks...little girl this time
as a personal note my wife and I had anotehr kid last week....3 long hours of labor, during wich the nurses and doctors(one male one female) called my wife Sweetie constently...are tehy also in "subordinate" positions? (peorsoanly Idon't see any line of work putting one in a lessser position to the rest of us outside of politition. they are public servants after all).
-Congratulations, moonglum.
thanks...little girl this time
moonglum
-Be careful.
DON'T call her "sweetie"
Seitan: you are missing my point. there was probably no sexisim behind Obamas use of the word. face it there are cultural diffrences insdie america as well as outside...in large sathws of the country the use of sweeti is exactly on par with buddie.....Obamas only faiure on thsi one was to speak midwesterner instead of ganariciseing hsi language for a natioanl stage.
I tend to call them "little monsters"
-Be careful.
DON'T call her "sweetie"
Haw!
Congrats moonglum!
My sister calls hers "little monsters" too.
I don't use "sweetie", or "hon", or "sugar" much, being a taciturn New Englander. Usually, it's my mother or sister - and if ANY disrespect or subordination was involved I'd be spitting teeth(or worse - nurses and microbiologists are not to be trifled with). It also applies to other relatives and friends.
In many cases I'll respond that way to someone who has already used those terms with me and only if merited by kind, generous, or otherwise good-natured behavior.
Each of those words in some way can be construed as referring to sweetness - on a taste scale it's the opposite of sour or bitter - you've probably noticed that people can act in a way that can leave that sort of taste in your mouth.
Obviously, any male who is decent, generous and good-hearted(say, a "sweetheart") is a nancy-boy, like unto a woman in character (stereotypically speaking), and obviously inferior.
Which would suggest that anyone who is a manly-man is an asshole, fuckhead, or otherwise unpleasant and disagreeable in character, and consequently superior.
Have I got the gist of that right?
Do you actually believe that? If not, are you sure you want to keep forcing that usage by disavowing any other?
Jesse, that may be how you use those words and it may even be how Sen. Obama uses them, but if you don't mind - don't fucking tell me what I mean when I use them, either of you.
DJ: Actually on the Savage Love podcast there's a long running discussion about whether balls or stones are a sign of bravery - or if p***y is a sign of weakness. If you think about it, balls crawl up into their owners body to hide from extremes whereas a vagina is used to shove out an entire human being.
So calling someone a p***y should be a way of saying someone is strong and saying someone has balls should be a way of saying they're weak.
Where ovaries fit in I'm not sure.
Of course all of this is an exercise in over-thinking things to death. ;^)
Kevin, my point was to criticize the use of feminine imagery to describe a male person (or vice versa). That point made a bit clearer, I'd agree with your post.
Look, Jesse, the really hard core Obama supporters are going to deny, deny, deny that this was (a) intentional or (b) a problem, which is in itself a problem, because it means that they will never push him to be better.
I work in a male-dominated company in a male dominated business, and I can tell you that if I had been the reporter, my immediate response would have been "Who the fuck you calling sweetie, sugarlips (or pookie-bear, or any of the other utterly ridiculous DIMINUTIVES I could choose from)?" It would have popped out before I even thought of it, because I have heard THAT particular "sweetie" too many times before, and if you don't smack it down hard and immediately, it grows...And that is EXACTLY how that particular "sweetie" was intended. He was dismissing the reporter. That part is just fine - she didn't get the interview, whatever, she can deal with it. The "sweetie" elevates this to something that he desperately needs to address. If he is well and truly in a situation where he is now trying to coalesce the Dems around him as a candidate, dismissing half of them just *might* not be the way to go around it. I would imagine that Mrs. Obama would give him a rap upside the head for that...and maybe she did. I don't imagine she puts up with crap like this from men she enounters.
Look, plugging your fingers in your ears and doing careful semantical hair-splitting about dominant and subservient positions ain't gonna do anybody any good, including Obama, and makes you sound like right wingers arguing. You are too smart for that. He is NOT a perfect man, but he is an intelligent one, and he can learn from this...if he isn't insulated from the issue.
He isn't your grandma, or a diner waitress, and this wasn't a term of endearment between close friends or lovers. It was, as I mentioned earlier, a diminutive; a way to make her *smaller* and if it is a habit with him, his handlers need to break him of it NOW.
On the plus side, I am very pleased to see Edwards come out for him last night, and the orchestration of the timing for that even was masterful. I sure would like to see them link up - I would have preferred it the other way around, but any way I can get Edward's anti-big business populist influence in to the next administration I will happily take.
Who cares?
Where I hail from 'sweetie' is a respectful term and is in no way derogatory or demeaning...
Congratulations moonglum. And I always appreciate your comments.
I moved to Southern Illinois about six years ago. I frequently have women sales clerks call me "sweetie", or something similar, here. I'm 67 years young. So I don't think they are interested in me as a sex object. It seems to be a cultural thing since this has never happened to me at any other place I have lived.
So get over it and move on to something important like runaway inflation or our endless wars.
someone wake dirffty up, "sweetie" is a big tiem chicago thing as well.
I have had a life-time of being called sweetie (which is mind-bending given my politics) ....It sucks, it's diminishing, it makes you feel like you're 5 years old and in kindergarten.
Obama's use of the word can only pass muster if he calls the male reporters "sweetie" as well.
I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Punkster: there is more to this country then the coasts...in a large swath in the middle sweetie is jsut a genaric honorific, a little mroe familier then mama but along the same lines.....yes he needs to drop the clloyucalisms, he needs to antionalize his langauge, but htis is not a sexist statement.
not mama....any one no how the hell to spell that word im lookign for....stupid lasy spelling...oh well.
congrats moonglum... thats another beer you owe me at netroots...
not mama....any one no how the hell to spell that word im lookign for....stupid lasy spelling...oh well.
That's like asking to pick up a grain of sand on Oak Street Beach.
Yeah, I'm aware of our geography, Moonglum; I was born in Montana and grew up in the Deep South, where the term "sweetie" has more syllables than it should and is frequently used as a term of endearment. That's not what this was. All of that is just spin and it is particularly vexing to hear it coming from people who know better. This man is on a very long and arduous job interview for the most powerful position in this country (and certainly ONE of the most powerful positions in the world) and he needs to clean up his fucking act or it ain't gonna happen. And since that fact will affect me personally, and you, too, then accepting that there is a problem that can be rectified and holding his feet to the fire until he does benefits us ALL, and will benefit Obama, too. You can't fix it if you won't acknowledge it exists. We keep saying "more, better Democrats." Doesn't that also apply to the presidency?
as far as the acceptability goes, we are not in ireland. personally, i find it a bit charming when an irish singer i work with often calls me "stevie darlin'." (note: he's a straight guy, but the irish are big on casual endearments)
the only guage for the attitude and effect demonstrated by obama's remark is the target of those remarks. if she felt belittled, demeaned, or otherwise slighted, then that's where the offense stands. i often hear the put upon folks who ask me "how am i to know what i can say anymore?" i tell them that since i am a notoriously touchy hothead on the issue of race they can feel free to try it out on me. if they are able to walk away without bloodshed, chances are they are not being offensive. also, the level of offense is easily measured by the number of stitches they need.
see folks? the race issue is really that simple. so is the sexist issue.
obama started off well with, what i hope is a sincere apology. in AA though, we regard that as merely a starting point. apology without changes in behavior is as dead as faith without works. i hope he does work on this, i hope he does change. speaking as somebody who knows how difficult the inside job of changing outlooks and habits can be, if i see changes in obama in the future along this path, i will be very impressed.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet or not, but I consider 'sweetie' to be like 'darling' and maybe even 'honey'. As Moonglum said, sometimes people use it; in diners for example. Frankly I find it kind of endearing when people (women) use it with me (a man).
Would it have been as big of a deal if he said 'darling' instead? I doubt it.
see this is why i dont' mention things HS I knew you would remember stuff....
I think this was a horrible thing for him to say, BUT I did not think his apology insincere.
And I did not hear similar apologies from Clinton for the hard-working white folks comment.
anyway, holding feet to fires is important... but It is also important not to overstate mistakes on the campaign trail. on either side.
Billy Joe.
its an issue of location, an unwillingess to acept that those of us in fly over country speak and act difrently the nthe coasts.
LGT...your barking up the wrong tree, every moel hill is goign to be a mountian as soem die hard folks desperatly look for a live boy or dead girl to hang on obamas neck.
jsut one more nonissue, an unfortunate coloqualism from a canadate that needs to nationalize his language...no big deal at all...espicaly when you consider that teh guy he is runnign agenist likes to call his wife "cunt" and "trollop".
you are so right I see women leaveign in droves to john "my wifes a ****" Mccain
Edited By Siteowner
Moonglum -- That word is not used on this site. I've edited it out. --Jesse Wendel, Publisher
Moonglum
Congrats on the kid and to answer your question - colloquialism
no not that one......mamma? mame? maame?im lost here...dammit ill stick with Ms
Ma'am. I think. That is not a diminutive, it is used, like "sir" to show respect (since the English language does not build those things into the language like the Latin languages do). The only reason that makes women cringe is that most of us were raised to use the term to show respect for people OLDER than we were, so hearing it said TO you means...well, shit...that yer gettin' up there! Damned whippersnappers, get the hell off my lawn!
To Queen Elizabeth II: "Nice tiara, Sweetie"
To Margaret Thatcher: "Yeah, Sweetie, you were a great Prime Minister"
To Nancy Pelosi: "Hey you're rockin' that Speaker of the House position, Sweetie"
Congrats Moonglum on your daughter... and on topic, I think that bringing another non-speller into the world is a bigger story than this one. I've worked with a variety of people, male and female, who have used the word "Sweetie" to no ill effect on the speaker or listener. It is a Midwestern "folksy" kind of thing more than an attempt to subjugate.
I think if you reread Jesses frantic post you will he see he goes out of his way to try and insult Senator Obama on issues of being male, which sort of negates the criticism in my book.
"Ma'am"? Moonglum was trying to say "ma'am"?? Normally, I think of his "spelling" as akin to performance art (the only way I can think of to not go insane), but this is a case where it renders communication impossible.
I was laughing about this because I assumed that our elitist Presidential candidate watched too much "Absolutely Fabulous" and was apeing Patsy and Edwina. Hell, he smokes Marlboro Reds -- can swilling Bolly and Stoli be far behind?
Seriously, given that the Boy King has made a habit of derisive nicknames for the press, and St. John the Vain has rage issues with them, this seems like a non-issue.
weak tea, very weak...from the tone of your post Jesse, you'd think he called her "sugar tits" or something...are people really this up-tight? yeesh...
& congrabulations moonglum!
IMHO, it was a Midwestern instinct ... but, now he is the Presumptive, all he has to do is lift his finger and shit will fly. Obama supporters - even Hillary supporters who are resigning themselves - better get used to it.
He does learn fast, I've observed.
And we should also stay vigilant about what social uglinesses are ignored in McCain and Bush. Please.
Here's an idea. Maybe it's offensive because the woman addressed as "sweetie" didn't like it.
It's a simple courtesy not to use such a word if the recipient doesn't like it.
If Obama is smart he'll not do it again charming midwestern thing or not.
As for the African-American male "boy" analogy that was made that to me is not even close because while both "sweetie" and "boy" are offensive I can't remember where calling a woman "sweetie" was a prelude to an attack like using the word "boy" to describe a black man.
I think we can acknowledge that what Obama said was an overstep without tossing out the degrees of difference.
Health-care is an issue ... bundling funds from lobbies is an issue ... Iraq is an issue. Sweetie is a VERY tame term & will only offend the easily offended. I do not see a "Sweetie-Gate" issue - female Clinton supporters are MUCH more angry at him for beating their candidate than they are likely to be for what he calls a reporter. At this point, suspecting that the media is gunning for Clinton, they themselves probably call reporters MUCH worse names in private.
The comparison to McCain speaks volumes - St. BBQ is a living fossil when it comes to either language or conduct - so how any self-respecting woman can say if Clinton doesn't win she'll cross over from Clinton to that man is a mystery to me, & I hope those threatening to do so are smart enough to rethink that idea.
I have relatives in IL from Springfield to Chicago. My Aunts call me 'Sweetie', my Grandmum called me Sweetie. Heck, nearly all my female relatives have at one point called me sweetie. Maybe it's a midwest thang?
I'd rather be called sweetie than 'Sugar Tits'
at any rate, this rates at least three yawns, and a stretch. wonders WWMD?
(what would Molly do?)
"There is one area in which I think Paglia and I would agree that politically correct feminism has produced a noticeable inequity. Nowadays, when a woman behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "Poor dear, it's probably PMS." Whereas, if a man behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "What an asshole." Let me leap to correct this unfairness by saying of Paglia, Sheesh, what an asshole." [Molly Ivins about Camille Paglia]
"Maybe her name was "Sweetie"."
:o) :o) :o)
At least he didn't call her a c**t, as one of the other candidates (who shall remain nameless:o) ) referred to his WIFE.
I will agree, it's a habit he needs to break, but it sure sounds like he's workin' on it.
Now, if we can just get John McCain's head out of george bush's ass, we'll have the "degrading token affection" issue pretty well taken care of. :o)
Moonglum,
Congrats on Little MG 1.3!! :D
Punkster wins the prise...I apologise if any of my typos have caused you any incontonence. (ive been makeign eyes bleed sence FIDONET)
skuquesnails it...its a midwestern thing..it is very much an il thing....but it pops up all over the midwest...we in flyover land have our own way of speaking on occasion.
this is nonissue, compleatly made up outrage, one last desperate grasp at findign that dead girl/live boy in obamas closet.
He has spoken like this for as long as i have seen his political caree, im sure you could find other instances in past press confrences adn debates...why is it a world endign issue now???? I like how the outrage lined up with soem mroe aligator teers from clinton...jsut more red meat for the authoritarian feminists. (no not all feminists are authoritarian, but a large subgroup is....as well as a subgroup of liberals..im lookign at you jesse, very strong authritarian juju gopign on there....jsut like right wing authroitarians there chosen leader can do no wrong, the other person is evil incarnate....hillary attracts a lot of that type it seems)
thansk jen....if you care get my email from HS and drop me a line I can send pictures.
moonglum - Congrats on the new littlest moonglum!
Jesse - I am a 46 yr. old female and this just doesn't register that high on my richter scale. It was inappropriate but it wasn't "sugar tits." (uggghhhh...)
He apologized and that's that.
I guess I'm a "hard core" Obama supporter, and I think he was right to have apologized. I'd prefer that he never called her by anything other than her name, but that ship had obviously sailed.
As others alluded to, it seems that this is only really a serious sign of sexism if he doesn't talk down to male reporters similarly.
I suspect that this is more of an indication of a massive ego. And if you think anyone who will ever run for President doesn't have a gigantic, gravity-warping ego, you're nuts.
Jesse - Myrtle June -
It was a bullshit apology in my view, because he didn't promise to stop using the language with other women.
I think the only apology from Barack Obama you want to hear that you would not classify as "bullshit" would be "Hi, this is Barack Obama. I'm not Hillary Clinton and for that I apologze".
Yes, he was, at the most, not professional in his remark and more importantly in his dismissive action. However, I do believe his apology was sincere and immediate.
I've experienced that men and women alike tend to treat others in the work place in this fashion when they have young children at home. Its some parental thing that kicks in they can't help it. They do think its being kind because that's how they are with their young children.
He should not have said that. Indeed, it was unprofessional. I'm sure he'll be more aware in the future.
There was a point in JE's speech last night that I wish he would have said differently. When he was saying "There's one man..." several times there..... I would have been happier had he substituted "person" for man. I don't think it was sexist but I do think he might have been a little more aware. Or he was saying "man" deliberatly because hillary's contention that "sometimes the best man for the job is a woman" sexist shit. I'm not sure. I just think "person" might have been a better choice.
I'm also not going to fall on the floor and kick and scream and demand an apology worded in exactly the text I want someone to say. But that's just me. Mistakes are made, apologies are given, we move on.
Have a great day
- moonglum!!! Congratulations on your new little sweetie!!!
In the same way, I need to see Obama stop dismissing the left wing of his party when it is politically easy to do so. Sorry, let me say that again.
I don't have an issue with him moving to the center and ignoring us in terms of wining the election. I have a HUGE problem with him acting in a sexist manner, or behaving in a way which is not liberal.
Errrr Jesse... I hate to point this out to you but having John Edwards, who kept everyone from moving right throughout this primary, endorsing Obama rather negates your false premise that he's moving right. He's farrrrrr left of la Clinton. And you don't have to reiterate your point to me with an apology ..... that's condescending and sexist.
I know your candidate didn't get the nom, and I'm fully aware there will be grace period for the grieving process. I saw that when I was for Edwards and he dropped out and his blog went into meltdown mode for a time. I'm fine with the grace period for the grieving process... but there will come a time when we will have the expectation from all the clintonists to get over it and get on with "supporting the nominee". That rally cry that was forwarded way too early in the process by many is one that will be coming up shortly. Appropriatly. I hope to see those who forwarded it prematurely be the same people who forward that at the appropriate time in ernest.
When my candidate got beaten very early on, it was devastating but I switched immediately to the next best candidate for me. I'm fully supportive of him. We've got work to do and I'm sure we'll all get about it together.
Myrtle, the hes moving right attack is just calssic considering the clinton supporters are also attacking Obama for beign too far left to win the general election...
If any one truly wants to see them drop HS a line, jsut sent him the baby pictures...ya HS im useing you as a go between suck it up, I'll get you two beers assumeing the bar dosn't run out this time
Thanks, Jesse.
Obama has my vote in November, that's a given, but man this kind of stuff pisses me off.
Quick! Call all the superdelagates! This changes EVERYTHING!
Ok, mistakes are made. And so are apologies. As a matter of complete suprise to me, Hillary actually backed down from the "hard working white people" gaffe.
Speaking of... I still find that one worse. And I am white. Hard working. A person.
Occasionally I am sweet. So I'm glad that apology was made as well.
This kind of shit is exactly why we need a woman president. Is it NOT about time that we are treated as human beings instead of "sweeties"?
The "boy" analogy is spot on.
I am not a big fan of Hillary, but goddamnit, women have put up with this shit for 10,000 years and what do we get? "Oh, sorry sweetie."
patronizing, denigrating, and ugly, no matter what color of person it comes from.
As far as I'm concerned, Obama is just "business as usual" -- same as "Let me put my arm around you" Bush....
I wonder if this will prompt another,"Obama Girl" video? The "sweetie" may or may not come from a sexist place but if it was a glaring character flaw I can't imagine Hillary Clinton not reminding everyone on a daily basis. Her campaign has no problem implicitly or explicitly pointing out the obvious, his skin color. I suspect being a raging sexist would have been thrown along with the kitchen sink when she was trying to make something, anything stick.
"Sweetie" and "Boy" comparison is somewhere between insulting and absurd. That alone suggests overreaction. Baltogeek's right.
"Sincere apologies include commitments to clean up the underlying issues which allowed the breakdown to occur."
In his apology he mentioned scheduling an interview. I'm confident that during the interview he will address the Sweetie comment again with her whether it's on the record or off. Leaving a protracted message pledging oaths and declarations on how his future interactions with half of humankind will forever be altered might come across as pandering if the voicemail was made public like the message he did leave.
If he does become POTUS he'll be the 1st African American and 44th imperfect Commander in Chief. It's the White House not the Vatican.
Maybe its' because I started visting sites like Shakesville & Feministe that I find such behaviour not progressive. I was not aware before of how so much msyogyny is engrained in the popular culture. As a black man its' very easy for me to pick up racism so as I have learned how women can be marginalized I have to be able to admit to myself when it does happen.
Just like I don't believe that Hillary is knowingly racist I can believe that Obama does not do these things because he despises women. I think its' fine to wish better behaviour for our candidates.
I don't think that Hillary or her people should get a pass when they say some dog whistling racist shit, and I don't think that Obama should either. They are both as American as lynching so they both have a lot of work to do.
Mark Slackmeyer (to Senator Lacey Davenport, whom he is about to interview for radio): And try not to call me "dear heart" on the air, OK?
Lacey Davenport: All right, lovey.
Just like I don't believe that Hillary is knowingly racist I can believe that Obama does not do these things because he despises women. I think its' fine to wish better behaviour for our candidates.
I don't think that Hillary or her people should get a pass when they say some dog whistling racist shit, and I don't think that Obama should either. They are both as American as lynching so they both have a lot of work to do.
tenacitus --
SPOT ON.
Well, well said.
Everyone who keeps up the (frankly offensive) bullshit that I'm saying this because it must be all about Hillary Clinton for me, 24/7, my comment to you is, your need to shove this off on me, rather than deal with the sexism of your candidate, is telling.
Same thing for those people who refuse to even deal with the issue.
Sexism is DEEPLY ingrained in our culture. In much the same way that "cock-sucker" as an insult reveals homophobia, people's reaction to what Obama does, demonstrates how many people are unwilling to see or grapple with sexism.
I do not think Obama is intentionally sexist, just as I do not think Clinton is intentionally racist.
That does not mean I don't think when he does something sexist, he shouldn't be called out. Same goes for Clinton.
Anyway if the man apologized and said he will make an effort not to do it again what more can be asked of him.
"This kind of shit is exactly why we need a woman president."
So you're saying sexism has been wiped out for decades in India, Israel, Germany, the UK, the Phillipines, etc, etc?
Don't get me wrong, it would be a great and long overdue thing for the US to have a woman President. But gender identity is down at the bottom of the list along with racial identity when it comes to my criteria for who'll occupy the Oval Office. And having a female President won't substantially change the problem of casual misogyny any more than President Obama will substantially change the problem of casual racism.
Extremely unprofessional and denegrating to women...... no apology.... to women for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g...h?
v=gjsqDrdvIPw
Jesse. so you accept there was no intent of sexism and yet you attack obabma for beign sexist...
hillary pulls the same shit with race "hard working white people" ect. and you not onyl give her a pass but you come down on any of us who point out hillarys racism.
I think its intentiona, you don't but even if you are correct and its unintentional, by the standared YOU JUST SET it is still racism.
then yo wonder why a lot of us fell that you are carrying clintons water.
I dug through the archives today, didnt' find you make one negative remark about clinton, all of your psots defending her even as she whent further and further into the rove paly book, even as ashe proved my republican lite statement true over adn over again......
you ahve on hell of a doubble standared, it may well be unintentional in wich case you need to open your eyes. It may be intentional, i nthat case you better damm well come clean or we have an issue.
Having a woman president won't change that, btw.
You can lack intent of sexism, and still act in a sexist manner.
This is why LM wrote about Clinton's dog-whistle racism. He said -- which I agree with (you'll note in at least one of those articles, I'm quoted) -- that in his view, Clinton is not a racist, but her actions were. (Paraphrasing.)
I agree.
Same here.
The point is, sexism is not as obvious to most of us as racism is. It is more easily dismissed.
Why?
Because more of us benefit from sexism than benefit from racism.
This was BAD. For those of you who are unclear as to why, let me explain.
Yes, it's true that gentlemen and ladies of a certain generation used endearments like "sweetie" and "hon" frequently. It's also true that some of us find this utterly charming when we encounter these folks -- which is good, because at their age, we're not likely to break them of the habit.
It's also true that many of us use these terms liberally in our private lives. (My son has been my "sweet boy" since he old enough to call me "Mom.")
But those of us under, say, 65, have no excuse at all for using these words in public, when we're addressing people with whom we have no personal non-work-related relationship. Obama's use of "sweetie" in this context is related to Moonglum's wife being called the same thing in the delivery room: it's a statement that these powerful people can't be bothered to get someone's name, and use it. (Obstetrics teams often call women "Mom" for the same reason, which is less offensive, but it still makes me feel like I'm just sort of Generic Mom #28 they've seen today. This is one of the defining days of my life; Jesus, people, can't you at least be bothered to get my name?)
It's the same power-over language trip that Bush runs when he makes up nicknames for his cronies. He's seizing the power over their very names, which is the power to define who they are.
"Sweetie" isn't quite as flagrant as that, but it's coming out of the same spirit: I'm powerful, I'm busy, and I can't be bothered to care about you as anything more than some generic chick who wandered into my field of view. It's incredibly demeaning, and beneath the dignity of anyone who aspires to lead progressives.
And I'm with punkster: I can easily imagine myself getting all up in his face had it been me. (And boy, would have have been an interesting piece of video.) It usually doesn't take more than one or two such instances to break a man of this kind of thoughtless condescension for good.
I once had a young co-worker who tried to get away with calling all the women in the office "honey" and "babe." I didn't get my feminist hackles up -- but I did put a quick end to it.
I simply started cheerfully calling him "Junior" in return. "Hey, babe, would you X?" "Sure thing, Junior. No problem."
The first time we had this exchange in the presence of senior executives was also the last time he ever did it to anyone.
jesse your comments here don't mesh iwth your reaction...we jsut had more racist statemnets from hillary...no reaction at all from you, obama uses a coloqualism, and you exploded...the reactions don't seem to mesh.
You have never made a post calling out hillary on her racism. more over in this post you do not make the distction that your comments just made.
You did not just accuse obama of useing a sexist term, you accused him of being sexist, all the while giving the clintons a pass for racism. that is where my problem is.
obama used a commonly used phrase as a genaric honorifc, unfortuinatly in some parts of the country it is not seen as such...his use was innocent but a mistack he needs ot nationalize his language. The clintons explicitly used racist language to attract a certin class of voter, they knew what they where saying and what the inteded reaction was..they where fully aware of which dog wistle they where blowing and did it anyway for craven political gain....one action in my eyes is far worse then the other. Your eyes as well i guess Jesses unfortuinatly we disagree as to iwch action was worse.
My two cents,
Another issue that can be classified as trivial. Was it inappropriate? Yes. Did he apologize? Yes. If it's bad habit, should he resolve it? Sure.
Is it worth dwelling on? NO.
Does it suggest that Barak is a misogynist? Please, enough already, can we move on!
sorry rob, see we are deluded and evil if we point out that hillary is acting racist(cause youknow its only acting or something) but obama makes an innocent remark and we need to drag him out and shoot him. We need the made up contorversies so we can sink obama and have our girl hillary ride to the rescue.
why am i harping on this so much..well we jsut had the clintons in full race baiting mode for at least a week (i was out of communication for a while it may have been longer) not a peep form jesse. an offhanded innocent comment from obama and we need to go into all out attack mode....all im asking is droping of the flase nutrality form jesse..I like to have my news sources biasis in the open, makes the filtering easier.
Oh and I perosnal don't think that sexism is any more or less of an issue then racism, too me both are a very bad thing, too bad you don't agree jesse. Guess white women are more improtant to you then us minorities
"sorry rob, see we are deluded and evil if we point out that hillary is acting racist(cause youknow its only acting or something) but obama makes an innocent remark and we need to drag him out and shoot him. We need the made up contorversies so we can sink obama and have our girl hillary ride to the rescue."
moonglum
-Not to mention part of a cult
(Oops, I did mention it.)
right I forgot that one...remember scientlogy is definatly not a cult, any one who prefers obama over hillary is a cultist....lets make sure all of our facts are straight here folks.
hey remember when obam supporters saying that they would never vote for hillary where horrible people and not true democrats that jesse didn't have time for...hillary supporters sayign the same thingshow that obama has a serious issue that he needs to resolve by putting her on the ticket.
Mrs. R. - yes it was "bad" but he caught it right off and apologized. She handled it right..... and included it on air.
Again, he should be more aware that he's not talking to his little girls, he's talking to a grown woman in a professional setting. You raise an excellent point in that he really should have just taken a moment, gotten her name, used it, and said they have something scheduled for the media later.
I don't think this is quite deserving of response and I do believe the clintonists will seize on anything at this point. I don't think its going to be worth overturning his lead and presumptive nomination like they'd like to see happen here.
I don't think its anywhere even close to, as Jesse suggests, had hillary called him "boy". Now that would be exactly racist. No question.
I see her racism and have for awhile. Her very attitude that when Obama took the lead in pledged delegates in Feb. she still acted and insisted they were ahead. In reality that's not true. Then again today, she's saying they are ahead in the popular vote.... again that's just not true. And the only way they can say such a thing and for it to be true is if hillary clinton is counting the votes for Obama as 2/3 of a vote. Whe she says "He can't win....", I hear... "because he's black" tacked on to her words. There's no other premise she has to say that other than "because he's black". They're not all that far apart really in issues. I'm sick and fed up with that. These are not dog whistles, they are flat out ingrained racist premises she's forwarding..... yet there's no acknowledment of that. Its the giant pink elephant on the clintons' kitchen table.
Obama really does need to be more aware of how he's treating people, men and women, in these situations. I think he will. I hope men and women in workplaces everywhere will take note of how unacceptable this is. That's not a bad thing if they do, I think.
It's also interesting that the MSM has spent days (if not weeks) talking about Obama's problem getting the white vote but they will not talk about Hillary's problem getting the black vote.
Myrtle Hussein Sweetie June: brigns up a very good point that i missed....jesse askes us how the MSM would react if clinton had called a reporter "boy"...well seeing that they have been droping racist dog wistles for the last few weeks rather constently and hte media has been joining clinton in it instead of calling her on it I guess we have our answer don't we.
Moon,
I believe that Bill did call Obama a boy.
I wasn't spitting mad because I don't think Bill is a racist and it's a southern thing.
Congratulations, moonglum! I wish I had a little girl. But, I still call my boys "sweetie"!
Anyway, much ado about almost nothing. Call me when he votes against women's interests. That would matter.
Look, this whole thing is sort of like art appreciation or sexual harrassment - hard to define, but 'you know it when you see it.' Mrs. Robinson, as usual, gets the closest to the bullseye.
As I said, I work in a male dominated business, and always have. I have walked this walk by using intent as the litmus test for whether I needed to laugh it off or crush it at it's origin. Sometimes an off-color joke is funny - hell, sometimes it is hysterical. Sometimes an off-color joke is either overtly or covertly agressive and it needs to be choked off at it's source. If you do it properly, everyone is happier and better off. This is the same thing. Sweetie, darlin' honey, sugar, hon - they are all the same. Rolling off the tongue of your mother or auntie or grandma or the waitress at the diner with the pie, well, that's fine. One half of my family is from the Deep South and I speek zee language. From the lips of your boss, or your doctor, or a professor, or the guy angling for the position as the President of the United States, um, well, come ON. This isn't rocket science; it should be common f-ing sense. Don't piss off 60% of your electorate. And I can't believe that a half-black man hasn't had AMPLE opportunity to experience "less than" language directed at him in this country; hell, he ought to be doubly sensitive to it. He is no colloquillism-spouting midwest country bumpkin; he is a highly intelligent, sophisticated, worldly man who uses the English language like a laser beam. He needs to focus some of that on not coming across like someone who thinks he is superior. Of COURSE he thinks he's superior - he's running for president! He better be superior! But he better learn not to look like it or we are going to have a big problem...
Moonglum, congrats on your little girl. I would hope she doesn't have to deal with this crap, but I've been an adult for some time, and have seen very little improvement - it just sort of went on the down low. Maybe the next generation will stop this nonsense. While riding on their flying pigs.
Now I must go play the "cover-my-head-with-both-hands" game with Bongo, one of my Senegal parrots. As you of course know, North American rules for this require both hands...
Cee tuche'(ya I wasa nationly ranked fencer...no i can't spell..hell thats even hte wrong spell) I conceed your point, well played....I guess jesse isn't the only one who needs to look at subconcious biases. I do fell that my greater point stands, he did aplogise and stated that he would od better in the future, he has never shown me a reason to not accept his word. Has hillary backed off her deification of "white america" yet?
Marek: I got three of them little boy monsters as well...ya my house is a zoo..why the hell do you think i left chicago for the armpit of america, cheaper living down here.
Will "Sweetiegate" be the camel's straw that finally brings down the monster, Obama?
I can see it now: A week after the election, President Hillay Clinton (and her running mate, Vice President John McCain) declares war on Iran, while simultaneously sending more troops to Iraq, and appoints Joe Lieberman to the Supreme Court. This while Bill Clinton appears live on CNN to allow Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh and Richard Mellon Scaife to urinate in his mouth, in between kicking repeatedly him in the face and crotch. ( there is tv footage of Hillary watching, smiling in approval, live via a satelite link!)
Meanwhile, Katha Politt writes in the Nation that the important thing to keep in mind is that Hillary has never used the term "Sweetie" while talking to her social inferiors (i.e. Americans, liberals), so it's not all bad news! And Maggie Jochild nods her head sagely in approval, while Hillary launches the first nuclear strike against Iran. The end.
John D. --
You just made a personal attack on a commenter (in your immediately above comment.) No pass. Don't do it again.
Strike One. This is a warning.
Arguing a Strike either here or by email, gets a commenter an automatic called Strike (which would be Strike Two.) One can also get Strike Two in the normal course of events. Getting Strike Two results in being banned for at least one week, perhaps more, depending on the offense.
Strike Three results in a commenter being banned from GNB for good.
Everyone
Sometime in the last weeks, I gave someone a First Strike. That was it as far as I was concerned. He'd crossed the line; I warned him. No problem.
Three, four hours later, I received a piece of hate mail. Not the worse piece by any means, but pretty nasty. Plus he left a parting gift in the comments. I banned him on the spot. He's never getting back on this blog.
All he had to do when he got the First Strike, just like a baseball or softball player who gets a call from the umpire, is take the Strike and wait for the next pitch. Arguing balls and strikes with the umpire is ALWAYS pointless and ALWAYS gets you thrown out of the game. If he'd done what I told him to do -- I will ALWAYS tell people very specifically what they did wrong and what they need to do/stop doing -- he'd still be here. But he decided to attack me instead. Buh-bye.
To say this more bluntly (again, this is for everyone's benefit...) If you get a Strike, I strongly recommend you exercise self-restraint. (And no, I don't care how hypocritical you think I'm being, thank you very much.)
Imagine the ballplayer at the plate who just got a call he or she disagrees with. He may disagree all he wants. He might have steam boiling out his ears. But if he says one word; hell, if he even mutters something to himself walking away and the umpire misunderstands it (umpires are sensitive sorts with huge ears when it comes to imagined slights against their character) that batter is OUT OF HERE.
Same here. Either don't say anything -- your best best -- and don't ever cross that particular line again, not even close, Or, if you must, say "I won't ever do that again and I apologize for x." Because if you argue with me in my umpire role AT ALL -- and oooooh, when I'm being umpire I am a sensitive sort with huge ears when it comes to imagined slights against my character and those of other bloggers or commentators -- I will construe a misplaced semi-colon or word against you as I call a Second Strike on you so fast it makes your head spin. You'd best not come close to anything resembling a protest or argument in any way, anything that questions what I did.
Really, your best bet is just to not say anything. And not cross the line again. My lines are clear. If you authentically don't understand the line (like a rule-book interpretation), ask. If you're jacking me around, I'll throw you off the site for good.
I have enormous patience with people. But my patience is not forever. I'm fast running out of patience with two or three people who keep attacking me over and over again. They need to listen carefully to this message... NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. THIS MEANS EVERYONE.
This is my blog, and these are my rules.
Jesse Wendel, Publisher
Group News Blog
love Obama and i know it was a slip of the mouth b/c he even said that it is a bad habit of his. Nobody talks about the NASTY things that comes out of Hilary's mouth. (& she didn't have slips of the mouth).
Yawn. Condi darling, will you tell your boss to please shut up? It just won't do for POTUS to go around calling U.S. Senators Nazi appeasers. (Although, maybe it takes the grandson of one to accuse one?)
Is it okay to call James Guckert "sweetie"?
moving on. let's celebrate--- Gay Marriage, No funding for the damn war, and the MSM beating up on stupid radio talk show hosts-
we agree on so much,
- we agree that race baiting is bad
- we agree that sexism is bad
- the war sucks
- bush sucks even worse
- we need to deal with lots of painful issues in our culture to keep on keeping on in the effort to promote real progressive thought.
let's go do it.
For my part, I wrote a nice letter to my chosen candidate saying that as a woman I was offended by what he said, happy that he apologized and hopeful that he will make ever effort to change his thinking and behavior in this area.
What have you done?
we can solve a lot by being
1. strong
2. respectful
3. smart
4. determined
5. hopeful
onward and upward
The point is, sexism is not as obvious to most of us as racism is. It is more easily dismissed.
Why?
Because more of us benefit from sexism than benefit from racism
Stupid statement, Jesse.
First and foremost: Obama's off-the-cuff statement reveals that he has internalized a lot of the inherent sexism running through our society.
SURPRISE! Gosh, I am shocked and appaled. Knock me over with a feather.
American men, nay nearly ALL men are in one way or another sexist. It's inherent in modern society, and has been inherent in society for the last 10 millenia, probably since the advent of agricultural societies. It sucks, it's not going to change fast or easily, and it's something we're just going to have to deal with over a long period of time as we keep up the pressure to change it as much as we can.
Part of that is recognizing when it happens, and trying to rectify the situation when it does. The fact that he explicitly called, apologized and recognized that he went outside the proper boundaries of professional and personal propriety says a lot about both him and his campaign/advisory team.
Third, your statement is simply moronic. "More of us benefit from sexism than from racism? Are you crazy? There is little or no priority or hierarchy in the world of oppression. Trying to claim that one form of repression is "better or worse" than another is simply inane.
Fourth, I note with interest the lack of statements from you regarding "Hard Working, White hard working middle class".
Get your shit together.
"Will "Sweetiegate" be the camel's straw that finally brings down the monster, Obama?"
-It will be if the MSM loops it and plays it ad nauseum the next three weeks.
Political correctness run amock. Sometimes its no wonder liberals get tagged as fascists. Folks need to relax. The younger generations - of which Obama is a part - have had it pounded into our heads about how its NOT ok to be misogynistic. The inference here is that Obama is a women-hater or does not show the necessary servility to the Grand Dames of Feminism amongst us. As a queer guy I say get over it, honeys! You all are in the process of shattering all sorts of glass ceilings, and there are alot bigger fish to fry this year.
Gramma called everyone sweetie, because she was sweet, and it was no big deal, ever!
A cultural note about Baltimore. In Baltimore, it is common for blue-collar whites to use the term of address "Hon", serving as roughly the same as "cher" in Cajun country. Men rarely use it to other men but women use it with men and women and hear it from men and women routinely. The classic use of the term is between a diner waitress and a mixed-gender table, both directions.
Black people almost never use it and college educated people almost never use it. In Washington 40 miles away, it's unknown, largely because blue-collar white people don't exist in meaningful numbers.
I bring this up not to let Obama off the mat - he is sociologically far removed from the Hon fest, and stands guilty - but to note that sometimes what looks sexist (as "Hon" did to my New York-raised law professor in a Women and the Law class 15 years ago) may reflect a more subtle demographic/cultural reality. Sometimes. Not in this "sweetie" condescension that Obama has permitted himself from sexist privileged.
RedDan --
You have ZERO clue what kind of work I really do at GNB; at best, you have one-sided assessments from a clearly partial party. I however, likewise note with interest how you show up to make attacks on me. You were one of the ringleaders back during the Obama "con" mugging I took.
Stop it.
I'm the Publisher of this blog. You can treat me (and everyone else on this blog) with respect, you can lurk, or you can stop coming here. I don't care which. Those are the alternatives everyone has; you're not being given special treatment.
I'm accountable for everything that goes on the front page, for better or worse.
When LM publishes a piece calling out Clinton for her dog-whistle racism, I'm accountable for that piece -- and odds are incredibly high I've talked about it with him extensively before he wrote it.
Sara and I talked earlier this week, and just exchanged emails about our plans for GNB writing happening weeks from now, all the way down to the tone of the piece and the precise time of day it is going to be published. TLG and I were chatting on IM sometime in the last day or so about her writing. I'm responsible for what Hubris Sonic puts up, as well as for what Evan Robinson posts.
Am I claiming credit for their writing? Of course not. Their words are their words, just as my words are my own. But as Publisher, I'm accountable for everything, pay the bills, file the tax returns. Here's a way to tell about who is truly accountability -- if GNB gets sued for defamation, who does the lawsuit go to? Hint: GNB's office is in Bellevue, Washington, just outside Seattle. Not in Vancouver BC, not in New York City, and not in Tokyo.
I don't put up election statistics -- Hubris does. I don't post on New York City politics -- LM does. I don't write about Canada's health care -- Sara does. I have my own areas which are mine (the law, comes to mind, given this morning's breaking news from California) as do we all. And we all have areas where we cross over.
Pretty much all of LM's stories on Clinton's dog-whistle racism stories, he and I discussed extensively ahead of time. Just as he and I frequently discuss political stories I am going to write. But he's the better writer to write those stories. Just as I'm the better writer on these stories.
Not that how we split up assignments inside of GNB is any of your business. Interesting though, that you assess you know