thank you for using gaiman's death...i really hope that is who came to get russert...he deserved a quiet trip to the great beyond
although i bet hes pissed that he didnt at least get to see this election cycle through
My deepest sympathies to Russert's family, friends and colleagues. His passing is shocking.
And for all GNB folks, please take care of yourself. Dropping dead at 58, particularly as a member of the US elite, leads me to suspect Russert was blowing off some loud and persistent warning signs.
Let us strive to outlive all the mean bastards out there working hard to screw up the US.
brat on MSNBC's coverage they said he'd been feeling bad.
I suspect this doesn't just require a general call for folks to take care of themselves but you men out there...
Go to the doctor!
Whatever's wrong with you isn't just going to go away.
Going to the doctor isn't fun and it ain't cheap but it can save your life.
GO!
I'm not sure what the proper response is, when you're talking about someone who used his position and influence to enthusiastically enable aggressive war, leading to the deaths of 4000 Americans and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, plus many, many more maimed in body and mind, and millions of refugees.
Where I come from, that's a war criminal, and I just don't see how one can gloss over that fact. John Donne aside, this particular life diminished us all.
Condolences to his family, friends and colleagues, but I'm with you prof fate. He was a tool of the Neocons & the Bush Administration for the past seven years. Period.
I'm glad to see there isn't any bullshit "don't speak ill of the dead" here at the GNB. Every Week it was "Pumkinhead this or Pumkinhead that" on other sites and now its all "gee what a great guy he was." And "lets put politics aside."
I really don't care.
No kidding.
It would be one thing if he was some careerist empty suit mindlessly reading the teleprompter and screwing everyone that stood in the way of an evening news slot.
The man worked for Moynihan and Cuomo FFS. He could have made a difference. Instead he got the kneepads on for just a tiny taste of money and fame.
The revolving door between politics and "journalism" is just as bad as the one with lobbying.
He leaves behind legacy that simply won't be lasting. It isn't that he was so terrible, but that he became less and less relevant, just like Sunday morning political talk shows.
He did himself no favors by having moments of extreme ego(Kucinich UFO question), but perhaps this was a reaction to his decreasing amount of relevance. I never had strong feelings about him either positive or negative but he definitely occupied a space in the corporate political media that can be filled by a flake or a giant.
I don't expect any miracles from the corporate media.
I'm glad to see there isn't any bullshit "don't speak ill of the dead" here at the GNB. Every Week it was "Pumkinhead this or Pumkinhead that" on other sites and now its all "gee what a great guy he was." And "lets put politics aside."
I really don't care.
BOHICA --
I'm still not feeling well, so I'm not going to post to your comment (post v. comment on. What you're saying deserves a full post however I'm still in too much pain from the root canal to give you an actual post -- pull what you said up onto the front page, take what I want to say, edit my words much more carefully as they're more likely to be linked by others, find the right photo, and so on. However here in the comment section I can give you the quick and dirty version, point you in the direction I'm headed, even if it's not a full post and) you deserve an answer as this issue has come up previously.
There certainly isn't a rule about what you can say or not. Our rules are pretty simple. There's one word you can never use. Don't make personal attacks (argue against the position, not the person.) And if a blogger tells you either in comments or email, to lay back off of something (or to knock it the hell off), please do so. *smiles*
With that said, when it comes to making attacks on people whom have just died, for me, there are several issues at play.
History
Being polite
And my own sense of dignity.
It isn't even that those Republican folks are on the attack, and I want us to look better than they do, especially in this moment. Yes, I think over the last 30 years we've slid back aways, and they've had a lot to do with it. It's winner take all, not good sportsmanship. Thirty years ago one would NEVER think about attacking someone during their funeral or the day they died.
Now, it's not only possible, it's common. To the point that people are glad when they think it is welcome here.
It isn't. Which isn't to say we have a rule against it. We don't.
But I'm not going to attack people on the day they die, unless they're one of the very few. Everyone else -- even the assholes -- get a break from me for a few days. It's a matter of dignity.
There are some people I believe who should be attacked: yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Their memory should be attacked at the moment of their death, and everything having to do with them should be attacked ongoingly till the earth covers all of their memory over forever. And then salt should be poured where once people who did remember them once stood.
Others... perhaps not so much.
As I said, for me it's a matter of dignity, of class, of my respect for others. I simply have too much pride to lower myself to behaving that way. Not just because it's how the right-wing Republicans and the fundies act. Sadly, too many of our own now go there as well. But the people I respect most, would NEVER trash someone the day they died. Even if they hated someone, they would be civil to their family (again, short of a very few families of whom we must say, those families were complicit in the crimes of the dead.)
Everything is not a war and with not that many exceptions, I feel no need to trash someone on the day which they died.
Jesse Helms, John Yoo, Dick Cheney... these are people whose historical legacy must have salt poured on it, starting yesterday, continuing today and tomorrow, and picking up into a white-hot fury on the day of their passing.
Children in first grade should know of how these few perverted the Constitution along with Joe McCarthy, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and Benedict Arnold. By second grade kids should spit on the sidewalk at the sound of these men's names and curse their deeds.
But Tim Russert? I value who I am way, way too much to attack Tim Russert in the days just before his funeral.
He's dead. His reputation isn't going anywhere.
Other's may feel differently, and that's fine.
GNB has room for dissenting views. And yes, the way I'm saying it now has much more room in it than the way I said it the last time I commented on this subject a few months back.
Often it takes me a little while to work my way around to find the right way to something.
Have to get back to what I was doing.
Take care.
If John Yoo got hit by a bus, I would give the fucking bus driver a savings bond.
Condolences to his family, of course. Losing someone that young is always hard.
We don't have cable, I'm still trying to figure out who this is and why he's this kind of important.
Totally off the wall question, what's up with the dead girl cartoon on every obit?
Bohica,
I'm with you 100 percent.
Oh, I suppose I generally agree with Jesse, too.
BUT
But we have a big problem with the coverage of Russert's death. It's hagiography, and it's revolting. It needs a corrective. And frankly, if we wait a week, as Jesse seems to wish for, Russert's legacy will be the hagiography, and the criticism will be ignored and forgotten.
I am so sick and tired of Russert being held up as a salt-of-the-earth common man who was a great guy because he grew up in Buffalo and was an Irish Catholic and his father drove a garbage truck. Well, first of all, he wasn't a "common man." He was a member of the Washington elite. And so what about his background? Steve Gilliard was a great guy, and he didn't grow up in Buffalo, he wasn't Irish Catholic, and I assume his father didn't drive a garbage truck. One's unchosen background doesn't count toward one's moral culpability.
Jesse, I have a lot of criticism of Russert's work, epitomized by Cheney's preference for appearing on Meet the Press because Russert allowed him to control his message. But in deference to you, I'll stop the criticism there, for the time being. I hope, though, that Russert's legacy is balanced with deserved criticism.
And, please, please, please, men and women of the press -- let's stop the hagiography.
A clarification:
Jesse, you wrote: "He's dead. His reputation isn't going anywhere.
Other's may feel differently, and that's fine."
Yes, I do feel differently. Russert's reputation can go somewhere. His final reputation is being set right now. And he did a lot of harm to our republic, in my opinion. Our country needs a corrective. It needs people to point out where Russert went wrong, how he allowed politicians to lie because he didn't think it was his job to point out politicians' lies.
When Reagan died, all we heard was hagiography for two weeks. And you know what? That cemented Reagan's sunny reputation. The historical record shows that Reagan was a great guy, unblemished by misjudgment or scandal. People seriously advocate carving his face on Mount Rushmore. Had the coverage of his death been more balanced, in the days immediately following his death, maybe the consensus assessment of Reagan would be more balanced today.
Jesse, sometimes a "decent interval" is indecent.
Annie C. --
You are fortunate.
The world of The Sandman still waits you.
The Endless
In my view, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman is quite simply, the single best literature or art of any kind I've read or watched or listened to in my life, all types, ever, period.
I read constantly and was raised inside music and books. I watch movies and DVDs of television as well. I also write a little bit.
The Sandman is literature of the highest order.
The young lady whose iconic image I put up is Death, as represented in The Sandman.
Many of the people who see her, know whom she is. The rest -- like yourself -- at least know she is death, if not Death. And now you know she is that, also.
Queequeg --
I agree with much of what you're saying.
Reagan is someone whose reputation in my view, needed attacking while he was President, the day he left office, and every day afterwards including while he had drool pouring down his chin.
Reagan's reputation should especially have been attacked the day he died and the weeks afterwards. That fuck is one of the people on my short list. (No, there's no literal list. Sheesh.)
All of have a list. Some of us have more patience than others, some of us have more space than others.
I'm a retired medic; healing and breathing is where I come from, and it's a large part of the space I'm committed to bringing to GNB.
It isn't that I don't think there are times when attacking is justified; I absolutely do. There have been times I've been right in the thick of attacks, literally and metaphorically.
If people want to attack Russert for the positions he took in life, they are welcome to. I understand the importance of taking out his reputation before the countervailing balance has a chance to get set. On the other hand, the mass media is going to do what it does for a week or two. It may be our voice will have more of a chance to be heard after Russert's funeral.
If people want, I'll be glad to put up a thread after the funeral, where people can take his positions apart, and really lay out the damage he did to our country and people around the world.
Let me know what Y'ALL want to do. This isn't a clear-cut case for me, and looking at the comments, it isn't clear-cut for most folks.
Do people want to attack him now? Is that the tactically smart thing to do, to attack someone of his level right now, or is it wiser to wait till after the funeral when it's more likely -- I can tell you it's more likely -- we'll be linked to, get more publicity for what we're saying?
Take a pass at that, why don't you...
I'll come back and take a look at what everyone has this evening most likely. Need to get some sleep right now.
Drifty's clip of Russert and Scott McClellan was pretty amusing - especially when Russert called Scotty out for not standing up for principle and confronting the lies of Bush, Rove, and Libby. It was a reminder of the dozens of times Russert had administration figures on camera and just didn't ask the next obvious, damning question. And there was Tim, seemingly ignoring the powerful pull of job security on someone else.
Russert was one of the best interviewers in television. But he was also senior vice president of the news and entertainment division of a major defense contractor. Watching Meet the Press, you could see him in either role.
Like I said upthread, I really don't care. He was no more than just another person who died as we all will do.
Tbogg and his commenters are also in the no BS zone.
Tbogg
"I have a confession to make.
I never, not even once, watched Tim Russert on Meet The Press. I just have better things to do than watch so-called "news-makers" shows on TV."
"New-makers", a pox on all their houses.
I guess with all of the truly horrific events happening in the world right now, my inner Buddhist has a hard time overcoming my inner cynical demons.
I'm going to visit my old horse and get back to reality.
This was very shocking just the suddeness of it. No matter what we do, you just don't know. NO one knows when or how.
Thoughts and prayers for his family. Just very sad for his son especially. So young.
I think his connection to this regular american person of faith, flag, and family really explains why he, and soooooo many other Americans, were so easily deceived by the "evidence" that lead to the war. This false conciousness that would autmatically beleive the "President" is really ingrained and really, no other president was quite such the big fat fucking evil liar as this one so I can conceive how out of the question that was for so many. Mr Russert included.
It really was a case of being involved so deeply in the bubble world that reality didn't exist outside the beltway.
I will give him credit for this ...... taking down David Duke, bringing Chuck Todd, maybe even Keith O to our screens, and most of all...... for saying "IT'S OVER" for hillary when Obama won NC. Although, his saying that did spur on the crazy campaign till the ugly end, but he said it..... out loud. And it was over. That was a reality he didn't miss.
I wasn't a big fan at all, but certainly he loved his family, his work, his friends..... and he really did do the best he could do. I believe that.
Peace to Timmeh.
dyeing at work must really suck
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