Well said, LM, well said.
All spring and now summer, my partner has been slamming Obama for not being Jesse (she worked on his campaigns).
But the Fox fiasco has really been the last straw for her on Jesse. And she's now re-examining her views on Obama.
My take: Jesse's a prophet who also wanted to be a succesful pol. Obama is a highly successful pol, who sounds like a prophet, but knows to his bones he's a pol. And Jesse hates him for his success.
It is hard to be pushed off the stage by someone who's younger, more politically adept, and far more cautious.
Well - we all need models to emulate. Obama was not a threat to the great ego and great voice that was Jesse until four years ago. I recall Jesse talking in those old folk terms of "someday" Obama would be ready. Now - as one of the old folks - I simply know that it is about feeling life has passed me by and I didn't get my due. And how dare that young whippersnapper get what was to be mine. Resentment is the product of such mimetic envy and resentment can sometimes gather the mob quite effectively against the new guy. It ain't working for Jesse and it didn't work for Hilary. I think Senator Clinton is wiser, smarter than almost anyone, but she too - missed the boat. Obama is the man who has the instincts to help us along and be better people. Jesse can only blame and fume. Obama's instincts are sure and true. Jesse no longer listens.
I have allways felt that in verious minority groups there are folks whos power coems from teh fact that they are a minority group...if the barriers between race, gender, sex, religion are shatered they lose that power....
dose it serve prominante feminists if we eradicate mysogany? dose it serve jesse jackson if we move away form racism. He has done a lot of good for minorities in this nation, but at teh end of the day he know who sings his paychecks and why....NO ONE is altruistic, the best we can hope for is enlightend self intrest....is it in jesses best interst to have a baclk president (who isn't him)? Or dose that barieer beign shatered reduce jesse procived power?
I may jsut be a cynical bastared, but those taht lead dont' allways seem to be working in the intrests of those they claim to lead.
Sad but true. Let us earn rights to our own human moments by blessing Jesse in his.
When I saw the first "cut his nuts off" bit of tape, I practically screamed. What the holy hell was Jesse thinking? With Fox News, you assume the mics are always hot and aimed at you from about two blocks from the studio.
Then the second quote surfaced, and I just had to shake my head. LM, your explanation of Jesse's behavior is the best one I've heard - that Jackson is a bit - dare I say it? - bitter over Obama getting so far so fast, and being more successful in his campaign than Jackson had been.
I do wonder about jesse applology. he knew what he said, fox news dropped one shoe, why did he play there game adn aplogise for only that...when he knew damm well they ahd another shoe to dorp and make him look like an idiot.
I'm not sad at all to see the older black leaders like Jesse go.
Why do we need "leaders" anyway?
I know part of that is just the game that people like Jackson play with the white media -because it's not like black folks are individuals right?
I can speak for my own damn self.
I'm sick of corrupt ministers and pundits "representing" black Americans.
The sooner Jackson, Sharpton, Jakes, Cosby and the rest of the grinning fools on the cable news shows are gone the better.
It's like these two guys in a bar ...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ho...ate.asp?
id=1790
I sort of feel bad for Jesse. He was actually the first person I ever voted for (1988 NJ Dem primary for President). I've always had a deal of respect for him, even though I don't always agree with his positions or his statements. It's sad to see him so bitter now, but as others have said, it is the nature of passing the torch to a new generation.
FUCK JESSE!!! (-with a rusty parabolic flute)
The horrible ting about Jackson is that he'll alternate genuinely worthwhile and supportable acts with bone-headed mistakes and petty displays of vanity that makes you hold your head in your hands and wonder, "What the fuck was he thinking!?" This is clearly one of the latter moments.
I do have some sympathy for JJ. As LM is right to point out, the man has done some admirable things; He's one of the few Dem politicos of the past 30 years who hasn't been completely worthless. And I imagine this is a tough situation for him to face. It's a shame...but there are times when you just undeniably fuck up, you know? I mean, this:
"What the holy hell was Jesse thinking? With Fox News, you assume the mics are always hot and aimed at you from about two blocks from the studio."
...is exactly right. Mistakes are to be expected and can be forgiven - we all make them - but sheer stupidity on this level is inexcusable. Jackson should have known better.
Ting? Vhat iss diss "Ting"?!?
"Thing", you careless fool!!!!
[Runs out of room, weeping copiously into open hands!]
well you know what they say,
The king is dead...........
LONG LIVE THE KING!!!
And that says it all, the baton has changed hands, it sure ain't pretty is it, very few Pols know how to bow away gracefully, Big Dog anyone, but it's the way of the world.
I agree with everything you wrote. But what about Jesse's own words illustrating clearly that he's stuck in some 80s mindset? Who the fuck talks about "cutting someone's balls off" these days? That's some freaking outdated macho imagery that doesn't have a place in modern discourse and especially not when women are part of the conversation. I know that Jesse was talking to another man and thought that he was having a private conversation but just the fact that he chose to talk like that about Obama shows that he hasn't evolved with the times.
I dunno. If I'm wrong maybe you guys can correct me. People trash talk now as much as they ever have but talk about cutting off some guys genitals just doesn't seem to make any sense as a figure of speech in the 21st century.
There are some good things Jesse has done.
In my book, his 1987 speech at the March on Washington is heroic. Every other pol RAN from this gay rights march, particularly given the hysteria over AIDS. Jesee showed up and delivered one hell of a human rights speech.
It's why the Fox fiasco is sooo petty, mean-spirited and little. Hard to believe it's the same man, 20 years later.
But it is 20 years later, and the world is a different place.
in 1964 dr. king was scheduled to make a visit to our reservation. it was some big shit for us. things got dicey, dr. king and his staff felt that rural arizona, the long drives through some pretty hostile territory, having to get in and out of an openly hostile and dangerous phoenix wasn't the best use of dr. king's time. i think that they were being prudent and wise.
jesse jackson came instead. no fanfare, no entourage, just jesse. i'm old enough that i remember jesse in the 60s. he was young, and he was beautiful. one thing that has always struck me as very perceptive of him was the way he noticed that the wonderful natural beauty of our rez was there, right up beside the crushing poverty.
jesse visited our school. he saw that we were being "educated" mainly by white missionaries (all volunteers) and had a dearth of books available for us to use. most of the books, like most of the stuff on our rez came from donations. and before anybody condemns those missionaries, they personally did most of the hustling of those donations personally. they would take their vacation times to go home and try to obtain the desperately needed supplies.
later jesse spoke to the assembled people. he started talking about the things he had seen over the course of his three day stay among us. he told us that he was going to take what he had seen and learned back to dr. king, and back to washington. he said that the way we were expected to live was a national disgrace, that how we were treated and kept on the margins of society was as wrong and as unacceptable as all the jim crow laws and all the things he had dedicated his life to fighting. he said he was going to fight for us too.
jesse cried. he said what he had seen wasn't right and he would try to help change that.
those tears were real. he wasn't putting on a show, we were too out of the fucking way for any reporters to show up. jesse wasn't playing.
i miss that jesse. i miss the jesse that went straight up against the syrians and the lebanese to bring out a pilot. i miss the jesse that stood up to saddam hussien to help bring the airport hostages home when this bush's daddy was fixing to start him a war.
alas, and alack. indeed. i have a lot of respect for jesse jackson. he's done some pretty fucked up and stupid shit, but i still remember the jesse in 64 who came and told us that he would fight for us.
the jesse of 64. i wish he could have gotten older and kept some of that spirit.
alas, and alack. says it all.
I remember the point where Jesse lost it. He came around here about 10 years ago to defend some students at a Joliet High School who started a brawl at a high school football game. Six of them were expelled and pushed out into the alternative high school. And for some reason Jesse Jackson thought this was important enough to come out here and defend those kids that started the fight.
And then the video came out.
The fight was like a rolling rumble through the stands. They were moving up and down the bleachers and knocking through everyone in their way. If anything moving them to an alternative environment was leniency in the face of the fact that they should've probably ended up in juvie. But there was Jesse Jackson there. Day after day. There was no reason why. There is still redlining in the cities. There is still so much crap that needs to be fixed. But Jesse was going to the cameras cause he needed the spotlight or money or whatever.
His son came out with a strongly worded condemnation after the shit hit the fan this time. Time to pack it in and retire with what you got.
One of Rev. Jackson’s finest moments was his ‘Common Ground’ speech at the 1988 Dem Convention, in which he railed against the ‘lazy’ stereotype:
‘Most poor people are not lazy. They are not black. They are not brown. They are mostly White and female and young. But whether White, Black or Brown, a hungry baby's belly turned inside out is the same color-- color it pain, color it hurt, color it agony.
'Most poor people are not on welfare. Some of them are illiterate and can't read the want-ad sections. And when they can, they can't find a job that matches the address. They work hard everyday. I know, I live amongst them. They catch the early bus. They work every day. They raise other people's children. They work everyday.
'They clean the streets. They work everyday. They drive dangerous cabs. They change the beds you slept in in these hotels last night and can't get a union contract. They work everyday. (Applause)
'No, no, they're not lazy. Someone must defend them because it's right and they cannot speak for themselves. They work in hospitals. I know they do. 'They wipe the bodies of those who are sick with fever and pain. They empty their bedpans. They clean out their commodes. No job is beneath them, and yet when they get sick they cannot lie in the bed they made up every day. America, that is not right (Applause) We are a better Nation than that!' (Applause)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/
fr...se88speech.html
The brawl was in downstate Decatur. The hit for the E2 nightclub nightmare really dented his reputation.
Barack is serving as proxy for Jesse Jr. There's some father-son shit going on there.
Time takes its toll on everyone. Remember The Godfather, after Michael takes over? Vito goes into "semi-retirement." He's still as experienced as ever, but he can drink a little more wine than he used to (which he does), and he thinks out loud a bit more, and forgets little things. Far from senile, but a little careless. "Women and children can be careless, but not men," he advised Michael, as only someone from the Old Country would.
Jesse got careless. Again. The first was "Hymietown," when the nation at large got its first less-than-flattering look at him. And now, with Obama poised to become President, Jesse has become irrelevant. Which must pain him no end.
cherish hussein gautama - Well now, doesn't that just sum it up. gah.
I could not believe it when I heard this. Petty petty jealousy. Seems to be an epidemic. I mean if JJ didn't do all he did to empower people to seek a result like we're beginning to see now, then for what did he do it? My god, when you see your life's mission, which I always thought was to empower people, come to some fruition and your real self wants to castrate the empowered.... *shaking head*.
Grow the fuck up, Jesse Jacskson. You're a better person than this!
Dang, that's two of my past favs that have shown their true selves out in really ugly and petty ways. Very sad. I'm baffled by it.
@Minstrel Hussain Boy -
Thanks many times over for that piece of history. At least one of us, and probably more, needed to be reminded of this. Not of your wonderfual story, of which no one knew, but of what Jackson was.
Makes it doubly painful to see the fall, but that's life. One of my favorite quotes is particularly a propos right now:
"Children learn what they most need to know from happy stories of the birth of kings, and grown-ups learn again and again what they most need to remember from sad stories of the death of kings."
--Richard Mitchell, The Gift of Fire
Wyrm i disagree..thsi is not what happens when the tourch is passed...this si what happens when the old gaurd trys to refuse to pass the tourch to the new vangaurd....jess would not pass teh tourch adn jsut watched it riped from his hands....happenign a lot recently
Jesse Jackson learned his lessons in politics at the end of police billy clubs and by watching men like Martin Luther King Jr. being murdered for fighting the establishment.
And establishment tools have spent the last forty years trying to degrade, marginalize, and destroy his message because it was disadvantageous to their politics. They'd attack his style, his past, anything to avoid talking about what the man was actually *saying*.
And now lowermanhattanite joins the ranks. In this entire several-pages-long theory of thwarted ambition that lm spins for us, where he praises Jackson for standing up to those who would sell us out, there isn't a single line considering whether or not Jackson was right.
I thought that sites like this held themselves to higher standards than FOX News. But it's this, is it? A hit piece protecting your favored political figure. No discussion on the merits, no consideration of the actual subject, just several pages of opinion and theory to demean and marginalize an expert's authority.
And all of this to avoid the most basic question that was raised by the incident:
Is Obama selling out black people to win?
(subtext: Is Obama just another DC political cut-out like McCain, Bush. . ., etc.?)
This could have been the prompt for a strong and informative discussion on Obama's words and actions concerning civil rights, equal opportunity..., etc. This could have been an opportunity to confront doubts about the man and replace them with information. Instead its the next round of Hate Week, where information is replaced with emotion and your ability to even judge truth dies that little bit more.
Here's a test to find out if you're a thinker or a tool: If someone criticizes something you like and that starts a constructive discussion of your ideas from their perspective, you are a thinker. If criticism starts a tirade of personal attacks on the critic, you're a tool.
I think Jesse's meltdown and Hillary's more extended meltdown both stem from the same root: The Baby Boomers have squandered their opportunity for lasting power.
Obama represents the next generation, and the Boomers simply will not have another chance at the brass ring ... and they are bitter and petty about it. On some level, that's probably because they know they should have done a better job when it was their turn, but they thought it would last forever. Their youth-vanity knows no end.
intersting...kelly finishes a rant about personal attacks with a personal attack...so by your definition kelly you are a tool?
Jesse Jackson has been heroic in his life and is a man of some noble accomplishment. However, there ain't no heroes in this world and to become known requires acts of will and ego, unless you're to the manor born. Jesse's ego is massive and one can only wish that he had at his age attained enough self-knowledge to gracefully exit the center stage. Overall, he's been a good man, but we all must realize that every human is flawed. I think LM has shown good insight in this peculiar story.
Hey moonglum, thanks for paying attention. :^)
I think that I made fair criticism that can be used to start a discussion on whether Jackson was justified in accusing Obama of selling out, or at least of whether the reactions to Jackson's criticism of Obama are in any way different from the knee-jerk Bushie attacks on any criticism of Bush.
Of course, instead of talking about the substance of what I said, you, like lowermanhattanite, attacked the messenger. Look at the results of your comment: Did this add to a discussion, add any information, or just work to shut down discussion?
Mike Spindall - I agree that we should consider everyone to be human and to see them in a broader context. That's actually what bothered me about lm's post however; he wrote a huge amount about a personal theory of his concerning Jackson's thwarted ambition, about his selling out to corporate punditry, and for bad measure threw in some smears on his character that he bolded and linked to. Where's the balance there? Did he counter point this with Jackson's accomplishments, with his roles in the ongoing civil rights struggles?
Think about the high school kid browsing past this article; what kind of impression will they get of Jackson?
Lm could be completely right, I don't deny the strength of his argument, what I criticize is that it joins the rest of the froth on this issue that hides the essential and important issues behind it. I go through this all the time on conservative sites, which is probably why it stands out so clearly for me here. If we use FOX News tactics and make the figure more important than the issue, we lose. Period.
I don't expect to come close to pleasing everyone who reads here—cést la vie. 
That being said Kelly, this piece is not “A hit piece protecting my favored political figure.” One may assume who my “favored” political figure was initially—but you know what? It would be just that—an assumption, and you'd probably be surprised if you knew who that person was...but that's a side issue here really.
I know of, and I cited Jesse's impressive pedigree in terms of helping the less fortunate, and afflicting the super-comfortable who meant us ill.
But for all of that good will he's exhibited, he has erred, he has misstepped and he has done some bad things, as any person can in the process of being human. The irony is that for years, many of us were accused of doing to him what some—including you—accuse me of doing with Obama, namely letting the man slide on the things he's done that have weakened us prestige and respect-wise. My love for the good Jesse has done if anything, moves me to give him special consideration on things like the funny business with Operation: PUSH money and his OWN part in ridiculing himself for profit.
As to his words that day on that soundstage—I have a deep issue with them and will not back off from it, as he did when his clearly less-than-classy/less-than-well-thought-out comments became public. For all of his integrity (and he has some), if the statement was so important and so trenchant—why back off from it so hurriedly? If it was NOT a gaffe, but the solid criticism it is being spun to be, why not stand by it?
He didn't—because he fucked up and he knew it. Pre-illegitimate child, Jesse was speaking the same message Obama has been—pro-family values (REAL, CARING Family Values) for years. The humane, and non-class warfare addled version of what Cosby called himself trying to speak to.
Is that “selling out Black people to win”?
If so, then Malcolm X did it too. I grew up in the Nation of Islam and paired with its progressive message in terms of equal justice and throwing off the shackles of White Supremacy was that selfsame strong message to Black fathers and families.
There are legitimate questions about Obama—his FISA stance (or seeming lack thereof in the end) for example. But that “selling out Black people to win” dog ain't hunting for me. I don't see it, and quite honestly, I don't think Jesse really sees it either. There's no groundswell or backlash to speak of on this from “folks”. Jesse's ill-timed and ill-placed carping (of a personal nature with no force of constituency behind it) smacked of, well...let's face it—“I'm the real H.N.I.C., and I'm speaking for the people.”
Even though they aren't actually saying what he says they are.
Obama's positions on civil rights, equal opportunity and the like are pretty damned well known and if one wants to “debate” them further, that is the right of anyone. I am a believer in the idea of there being a “time and a place for everything under the sun” and what Jesse exhibited there in front of Fox's cameras—the enemy of everything he's ever stood for, was truly wrong time and most definitely the wrong place. I don't know what madness could have possessed him to do that there—airing “dirty laundry” in the den of your enemy and where it could only be used to injure him, and the legitimacy of the questions.
Which brings us to the end, and the most heartbreaking part of the story. If you will go so far as to pal about with the enemy to bare your soul and complain, it means you've obviously lost touch with those you've sworn to defend. And to do so in such a sneaky, underhanded manner—a literal whispering campaign as we saw— speaks to a personal animus. The very personal animus I cited in the previous historical upheavals when time goes by and people's expectations and choices in standard-bearers change. You call it spin—I call it letting historical patterns inform the analysis.
Personal attacks on Jesse? “Hate Week”? Spare me the melodrama. I respect him and cherish him for the good he has done. But the record is what the record is. And human nature is what it is too. I love and respect the late Adam Clayton Powell Jr. too. And quite honestly, I feel that he's probably done more for Black and poor folks than anyone in the last sixty years through his bulling through programs we all take for granted today. But I know he too was flawed—bodaciously, painfully so. He too, had a tremendous ego to go along with his heart. He was as vain as all get out. A rabid voluptuary to boot. He brought sexy “back” to bacchanalia. But in spite of all the generations-changing good that he did, it was those flaws that in the end damaged him, leaving him with little else left (Constituency—gone. Power—gone. Even health and vitality—gone), but his sense of self.
His ego.
It's a lesson worth learning from for Jesse jackson. And I hope its not too late.
and another fine dodge by kelly...you don't actualy acknolage LM point...this was not a pice on reace relations...taht has been done here, by LM, numerous times. this was a metaanalysis on teh opinino setters...or at last those who use to be the opinion setters. You probably perpousfuly missed the point adn attempted to ster the conversation off on a divergant tangent...screaming that any one who didn't fallow you was not dealign with substnace.
YOU missed the point seemignly knowingly perpusfly missed teh point, the ntried to launch into a compleatly seperate topic, a toppic geard to be a hit pice, useign the tactics you claimed to be decrying....your finaly statment poisend the well nicely tryign to stop any attempt at callign you on the BS...see if i disagee with you im a tool and not a thinker.
I got no problem being a tool. You think jese comments where apropriate, then by all means defend him, you want a discussion on the african american community adn Obamas fatherhood comments, wait around I'm sure it will come up again....but don't try and dictate the conversation adn not get called out.
The issue here is Jesse Jackson and HIS comments..so ya we are allowed to discuess him.
LM - Thanks for taking the time to reply. We could discuss hypocrisy and melodrama and criticism, but here's the essential point that I was trying (in my unfortunately ever-long-winded way) to make:
How was your post any different from an O'Reilly rant? What I saw was all the same things, the "I've been there so I know" establishment of expertise, the focus on a long history of smears, the lack of any meaningful information on current events or anything not in the current media eye (say, Sean Bell, or Jena 6), the long personal speculation that forms the bulk of the speech, and the continuous emotional and nasty characterizations.
In your defense, I do recognize that you marked your post as your personal musings, and perhaps that should have made more of a difference to how I judged it. But can you honestly say that your post had any positive effect other than to let you blow off steam?
LM - thanks for taking the time to respond. Looking back at the original post and our reponses, I think I understand more of the point of your piece as being musing on Jackson and his place in the public eye. And I was too critical of your style, though I would say after your "Mean Girls" and cast aside beer cup analogy, I think it's a bit hypocritical to call me out for melodrama. :^)
Spending too much time on conservative sites, I forget that you can just talk to some people and don't have to hit them over the head to get their attention, so please excuse the accusatory nature of my first post.
The central point of my response though is one I still maintain: Instead of informing the public in any useful, positive or constructive way, you jumped on the dog-pile that the media have made of this event. Everybody else has already been bad-mouthing Jackson over this while completely avoiding the underlying issues, and you joined in, bringing your own expertise to bear.
Public attention is a rare and valuable commodity in the media world; I think it would have been better to have used the momentary attention on this to usefully inform the public, rather than give them more excuses to sneer at a public figure who might, as you pointed out in your response, still be able to help people.
The reason I labelled this as a hit piece was that I saw these characteristics:
1.) Detailed focus on known and widely publicized negatives.
2.) Vague, backhanded acknowledgements of positives.
3.) Majority of piece is personal theory of motivations/intents and emotional characterization.
4.) Author claims to be an authority but gives no information that isn't well-known.
5.) Target is already subject of numerous attacks and/or has criticized an establishment or establishment figure.
6.) Use of self-proving phrases like "as is always the case," "there is always," "it's simple human nature" and saying things are true instead of proving them to be.
Perhaps I have too narrow of a view of what should be considered positive and constructive discussion. Or maybe there's a need for negative and deconstructive speeches that I don't understand. If so, then I'll need to rethink my criticisms of the pundits of FOX News and the like as well.
Moonglum - As LM proved quite handily, my last thinker/tool comment did not poison the well to prevent a response and it was not meant to. It was meant to point out that thinkers start discussions and learn things from them, while tools marginalize, cut short or try to stop discussions from even starting so they can maintain what they already 'know'.
I think you made an excellent point though, in that what I did was something that I often criticize myself; I walked in to the site, saw one thing I didn't like and laid into it. Thanks for calling me on my BS; feel free to come on by my site and do the same. :^)
But can you honestly say that your post had any positive effect other than to let you blow off steam?
Perhaps we should wake up Shakespeare and the legions of other writers who dealt with the subject of hubris and ask them.
Kelly Logan: not every post needs to do more then blow off steam. you need teh highs points and teh low poitns else you come off as a bit high handed and pretentious.
oh and check your link, get a 400 error trying to get to your blog
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I think that blowing off steam at another man's expense is inappropriate, even more so when done in public. I return to my earlier point: If someone came on to this site, seeing the dogpile onto Jackson in the regular media and saw this post, what would they learn other than those guys at FOX smearing Jackson are probably right too?
In fact, looking at this site in its entirety, what would someone see about Jackson except what the MSM says about him? Most of the handful of mentions are passing references to that 'other' black presidential candidate, and the one mention of him in reference to a recent event, the Jena 6, is a listing of him as a target of white supremacy retaliation, without any indication of why. That post also ignored entirely the role of leaders like Jackson, Rev. Sharpton and Rep. Maxine Waters in directing and focussing the activists there into a positive force.
So no other posts note anything positive the Jackson has done, and this 'steam-blowing' post comes along and paints him as an empty beer cup, kicked to the side of the curb; why would a reader here look for anything else from the man? How many young activists will now be more likely to ignore Jackson's opinion or events he is associated with? Again, maybe it's me being old-fashioned, but I think posts on a nationally-recognized site should have a sense of responsibility to those less-informed than themselves.
(P.S.: Moonglum, thanks for the heads-up, my website URL should now be working.)
Kelly: thsi si the Group (more then one writer) News blog(pertaining to current events....think of it liek a very inovative, progresive, online newspaper) The fact that the entire media is jumping on jesse means that its news...by the designation of thsi site (and to stay true to the vison of the parent sites founder) they must cover what jesse jackson said. It jsut happens to be that Jesse sadi soemthing realy horrible...
THis is a news blog not an issues blog I would eb upset if kos coverd Jacksons staemnet. I would be upset if Atrios coverd Jesses stament but not its media coverage (as that is a metanews blog). Here I expect them to cover the news. Understand where you are, it will help to understad why the topics that are covered are covered. (they do the occasional cleb stuff adn missing white women stuf..occasional).
Man you guys aer national recognized...perhapse I should invest in a dictionary......Nahh 
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