Hillary camp spin will be along the lines of "but its the state he grew up in!"
Funny, he beat her 65-32 in the state she grew up in. And a "significant" state to boot.
wengler. she tossed us aside decades ago, arkansas and new york where far more important then il. We remember things like that
Annnnd he beat her by the same margin in the District..... they both work in.
tlg - This is really something. The ages. The energy! 95 years old! Sweeeet stuff right there. 10 in a row! This is just awesome 
I wish I lived in a safely blue state so I could indulge in a protest vote, but the Arkanshire is purple, so I suppose I will feel obligated to hold my nose and vote for the Hypnobama in November.
In fairness, I would also need to hold my nose to vote for HRC.
I sometimes wish I had a realistic, practical means to move to another country, but I suppose people are much the same everywhere.
its amazing how many people are willing ot stand up and say that they do infact matter regardless of what the clintons think. I am college educated and squarly in the white coller middle class. acording to clinton I don't matter. why would I ever vote for her.
This is starting to turn into a rout.
If this happens a couple of more times, I hope Hillary will stop the Rovian tactics and simply concede so we can focus on crushing McCave.
I actually don't dislike Hillary but her (and Bill's) behavior is starting to grate on me. I hope they don't persist with their attempts to mess with delegates.
Hearing these anecdotes about people who haven't voted before finally feeling energized is almost enough to revive my moribund faith in the American electorate. If this can be maintained, the GOP doesn't stand a chance with their "hold-your-nose-and-vote" presumptive nominee.
Hillary camp spin will be along the lines of "but its the state he grew up in!"
Ah, thx. Well it's the state he grew up in, isn't it?
:D
"acording to clinton I don't matter."
Where did she ever say that? Pls provide the quote.
Lets see, i am college educated and middle to upper middle class saleries combined my family makes around 100k (that is misleading though, my wife is self employed and so her income gets taxed a lot more). I do beleive clinton said that people like me don't need a president.
"she tossed us aside decades ago, arkansas and new york where far more important then il. We remember things like that"
This former NYer remembers things, too. 2003 in particular. In the name of ambition, she's triangulated herself out of a lot of liberal goodwill over the years in her various "home states."
Either that or I'm just an easily mesmerized misogynist cultist.
Gray she grew up in Il, the afulent north shore suburbs of chicago...the winneka, willmet area to be percise(some of the richest towns in the nation per capita). didn't help her out at all.
Wandered,
I just read something about students in Texas walking seven miles to a plac to vote early.
It gave me chills.
However, they'll be dismissed as cult members.
Her campaign IS responsible for that slander.
From The London Sunday Times
February 17, 2008
Clinton’s camp has been circulating stories criticising the “cult” of Obama in the hope of portraying “Obamania” as a mass delusion. Media Matters, a watchdog organisation sympathetic to Clinton, compiled a report headlined, “Media figures call Obama supporters’ behaviour ‘creepy’, compare them to Hare Krishna and Charles Manson followers”.
It was forwarded by Sidney Blumenthal, a top Clinton adviser, to select reporters. The campaign entered a nasty phase last week with the determination of Clinton’s team to revive delegates from the “ghost” primaries of Michigan and Florida, by legal action if necessary.
"Rock on/rock on/drive me craziah/no serenade/no fire brigade/just Obamania!"
*pumps "horns" hand sign in air and bangs head* 
"I do beleive clinton said that people like me don't need a president."
Well, and I do believe in god. But I don't think that's sufficient evidence for anyone to trust in his existence.
:-/
Well, I would really prefer to see that quote, you know.
|-(
"Gray she grew up in Il, the afulent north shore suburbs of chicago...the winneka, willmet area to be percise(some of the richest towns in the nation per capita). didn't help her out at all."
Well, this effect was outweighed by Obama having been a state senator of Illinois, right? However, I made the point quite tongue-in-cheekly as a response to wengler. Seriously now, imho the fact that Hawaii held a caucus instead of a primary was much more important for the outcome.
According to the Honolulu Star Bulletin, 37000 participants are a new record for a caucus in Hawaii. But Hawaii has about 1.3 million residents! Just like Maine, were 45000 Dems caucused. And in equally sized NH, 284,000 (!) voters turned up at the Dem primary.
Just another evidence that caucuses are inferior to real primaries, regarding participation numbers.
Gray she grew up in Il, the afulent north shore suburbs of chicago...the winneka, willmet area to be percise(some of the richest towns in the nation per capita). didn't help her out at all.
No, she grew up in Park Ridge. Nice, but not quite as affluent as Winnetka or Wilmette.
direct quote from the clinton interview.
"the caucuses aren't good for her. They disproportionately favor upper-income voters who, who, don't really need a president but feel like they need a change."
here is a link to the interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g...?v=gccNNDFnWGU&
oh and thanks about bitching over the use of her first name clintons supporters. this is so much better
can i start using hillary again?
Gray,
The "significant/insignificant states" meme came from Clinton campaign surrogate/mouthpiece/spokesman Mark Penn:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/a.../13/
662535.aspx
--and it's been knocked around the blogosphere for a week now. It's morphed a bit into "Hillary thinks our state doesn't matter!" While not exact, it's the gist of her campaign's statements. It's been reinforced by further noises out of Clinton's campaign, to the effect that "voters don't matter - but superdelegates do," and this latest from Mark Penn:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo...-jour-
enjoy.php
--saying that winning primaries doesn't matter.
"the caucuses aren't good for her. They disproportionately favor upper-income voters who, who, don't really need a president but feel like they need a change."
I endured all the boring 7.x minutes of that idiot radio jockey talking about Clinton not having the right to complain about the "pimping", but didn't hear Bill Clinton (not Hillary!) saying anything like that. A total waste of time. Next time pls link the right interview, and provide a timemark where Bill allegedly says that.
"oh and thanks about bitching over the use of her first name clintons supporters."
Wtf are you speaking about? I didn't raise any point remotely like that! With all due, uh, restraint, but these kind of baseless accusations are scandalous.
"While not exact, it's the gist of her campaign's statements."
When things are made up, they suddenly become the "gist of her campaign's statements"? now, come on, I don't like Mark Penn at all, but his statement about "significant states" has already been blown up beyond all proportions. He didn't say "insignificant states" or anything like that. He was just speaking about some states having a much higher impact on the election. And rightly so, because they represent a much higher share of the voters. There was nothing in this statement that can be rationally construed as saying some votes count more than others.
damm youtube linkings..never did get a hang of them.
here yo go two difrent news reports
thsi one I like the best...the irony of the satmetn combined with her attempt to disenfranchise the workign calss in vegas is ratehr telling these are both hillary quotes
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...=topnews&
sub=AR
http://www.muscatinejournal.com/
...c0339782940.txt
here is a link to the bill caucus quote
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politic...clinton-
un.html it was part one where he made the statement not part two that i linked..woops.
Gray, you wanted to know why someone would say that "Hillary said" their state didn't matter.
"Gist" is what people perceive.
Penn's words and other Clinton spokespeople's words deliver the "gist" of condescension, dismissal, and cynical manipulation.
You can see how eagerly US voters are swallowing that this year.
"here is a link to the bill caucus quote
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politic...itic...clinton-
un.html it was part one where he made the statement not part two that i linked..woops."
Ah, thx. Much better.
Ok, I think that Bill obviously tries to make the point that upper income voters, who are overrepresented in caucusses, care more about a possible change than about presidential qualities. But this is open to interpretation, sure, and you have a point here. The way Clinton makes his case is idiotic. Damn, I never would have thought he would actually become a handicap in the campaign of his wive...
|-(
-Thanks, Cee.
"Clinton’s camp has been circulating stories criticising the “cult” of Obama in the hope of portraying “Obamania” as a mass delusion. Media Matters, a watchdog organisation sympathetic to Clinton, compiled a report headlined, “Media figures call Obama supporters’ behaviour ‘creepy’, compare them to Hare Krishna and Charles Manson followers”."
"It was forwarded by Sidney Blumenthal, a top Clinton adviser, to select reporters. The campaign entered a nasty phase last week with the determination of Clinton’s team to revive delegates from the “ghost” primaries of Michigan and Florida, by legal action if necessary."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
tol...icle3382295.ece
"Gist" is what people perceive.
Ok. But it doesn't have to be the truth. People will believe a lot if they constantly hear it in the media, in the internet, and from friends. Like, for instance, that there were WMDs found in Iraq.
"Penn's words and other Clinton spokespeople's words deliver the "gist" of condescension, dismissal, and cynical manipulation."
They may leave that impression, but that's not the gist of the campaign, imho. However, don't you think that being cynical is a common trait among those campaign managers? They're only hired guns, after all. But, ok, the Obama stuff is faring much better, by simply keeping their mouths shut, agreed.
Wisconsin vote totals yesterday, from a thread by Kos:
Republicans: 409, 078
Democrats: 1,110,702
(up 293,281, from the 2004 democratic primary.)
"Democrats: 1,110,702"
Out of 5.5 million residents! Now, that's more like a real primary. To put this into perspective, it would have taken about 250000 Hawaiians at the caucus there to reach the same level of participation (instead of 37000).
However, Obama won Wisconsin, fair and square. A clear victory, and another warning signal for the Clinton campaign. Winning the popular vote becomes increasingly unlikely. Not to speak of the pledged delegates count.
:-(
Gray if you didn't think bill would be a liability yuo didn't pay attention to his 8 years. he bearly won a presidancy ageenist an unliked incumbent(his own party wasn't too fond of bush senior) only through teh help of a right wing thrid party run (the equvialiant of ron paul running) he then bearly beat one of the worst canadtes ever with a pulritaty of the vote (not a majority) all the while distroyed a multidecade democratic hold on the house and senate..he left vast amounts of the democratic party to wither on the vine and die.
when has anythign that the clintons have doen been a benifit to the country.
Moonglum, you're too hard on Bubba. Take away his inability to keep his dick in his pants, and he was about as good as the repubs allowed him to be.
Neither he (nor Hillary, as we now know) was the courageous progressive/flaming liberal; he was basically a centrist, with a substantial dollop of country-club republican thrown in.
But it's the same old story; we could have done a lot worse, with either Bush I, or Dole. :o)
tanbark he was an average president, slightly better on domestic agenda then bush I, exactly the smame with forign policy.
hey tanbark I do see one positive to this primary seasone...EVERY thing negitive about clinton that I have been talking about for years is beign proven correct all over again. There is no reason for Obama to even think about goign negative, she attacks herself.
moonglum, I think you're in for a very nasty surprise with Obama. For all we know, he is even more centrist than the Clintons (his actions at Harvard and in the Illinois senate give a hint at that), and he certainly isn't a progressive. Well, maybe next year I can already say "I told you so".
Plus, moonglum -- don't you know that Obama is eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil?
I read a story where someone said they heard a guy on the radio talk about this TV show that his friend worked on back in high school, and there was a guy like this Obamer character, and he turned out to be evil too.
So there.
POWN!D
Gray see i actualy live in il, have watched his actions...he has never done any thing on teh state or national levle that would lead me to beleive that he is aermican centrest like clinton (we have a different view of all thigns left and right in htis nation). hell i doubt that he would be cneterest even by international standareds...but i have noticed that a lot of international liberal types are very strongly authoritarian. that could explain the hillary love and dislike for obama as she tends very strong towards the authoritarian side of things.
Uh huh, moonglum. Well, then why does Google find 302000 hits for this search?
http://www.google.de/search?hl=d...gle-Suche&
meta=
Check it. Lots of bipartisan bills, supported by Obama. Not centrist???
And don't forget that liberal voting record watchgroups see Obama on the right side of Clinton.
Wake up... In the middle of his speach he says "I support the SPP.gov and will re-ignite with Mexico its progress".
He is a traitor to America and the constitution. So is Hillary they are both CFL stooges.
Burn the house down and start over with Ron Paul.
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