Great post, Maggie. Thanks for helping parse the issues and reminding us to stick to them.
that s one of the major disconnects between us and the fundies..Yes I am my childrens care takers and protectors (as the rather evil old lady down the streat discovered when she tried to yell at my boys)...and at home I am in charge (fi you ahve one child, by all means try a democracy..good luck with that...) but, I do not own my childrn, they have there own life, they will spread their wings and be theior own people...I hope and strive to give them the tools and wisdom needed to be good people. The fundies think that their children are theri property, and stay their property untill they die, not only controllign their kids, but also keeping them children well past adulthood.
leave Bristol Palin out of her mothers issues..IF Bristol starts to activly campigne...well the ndeal with her as any other saroget...but assumeing she dosn't activly seek the limelight, leave her alone....she is not her mother, she is not a saroget for her mother.
I don't think anybody has really talked about making Bristol a target at ALL.
What people are talking about, quite frankly, is the possibility that there was a not-insignificant amount of coercion that happened in that case, which takes it out of the realm of a private family matter.
In short, the vocalization isn't about condemnation, it's about concern.
Sorry, Maggie. The idea, no matter how generous-hearted the impulse, that this right-wing maven who thinks that home-schooling kids about fucking is waay preferable to having professionals talk to them about it in a classroom, isn't a fair campaign issue, is mistaken.
It's more than fair; it's critically important, in the battle to keep pointing out their monstrous hypocrisies and bullshit, that we do this. Not one single post I've read on this subject, on any blog, has in any way suggested that any shame attaches to Briston in any way.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT HER. It's about Sarah Palin's position on reality-based, effective, sex education in our schools.
She flatly opposes it.
And her unmarried daughter is pregnant.
The two facts have some relevance when we're talking about Palin's grasp of the issues. :o)
At this point I am not of a mind to "reach out" to the people who have pulled america into the conservative wet-dream of a nightmare that is our country, as we speak.
I respect your instinct for kindness, but, as I said, we are not being unkind to Bristol; only pointing out that her mother, who, after all, aspires to be one-72-year-old heartbeat away from being "the deciderer" on some rather important issues affecting not just women, but all of us, has her head up her rightwing butt.
No slack. We're in this position, to some extent, because we've played according to Hoyle, while the repubs have played according to Rove. We don't have to get down in the sewer with them, but this is a legitimate issue, and anyone who says it isn't is toting the hod for the GOP.
Fuck being kind.
Call them out for being the anti-reality, anti-woman fucking FREAKS that they are. I don't give a shit if they feel "alienated" or "hurt."
Rub their nose in their own shit until it gets grated off on the sidewalk.
My point is that Sarah Palin's stance on reproductive rights, on hunting from airplanes, on the cause of global warming, on evolution, on allegiance to the United States, on taxation, on the use of power, on foreign policy -- all of these stand alone, without dragging in the fact that her daughter is pregnant. In YOUR mind they may be linked, and in a lot of people's minds there seems to be a cause and effect -- but we fucking don't KNOW it. What we KNOW is what Palin herself has said and done on the issues.
You start diagnosing people's families and it pisses folks off. Plus, it completely plays into the Right's playbook, which is to make this about personality and morality, NOT the issues.
So, yeah, Palin believes even condoms and the pill are not okay and shouldn't be taught or funded. She believes the state has a right to force that limit on every woman and girl. You can say that alone, and if that isn't enough to persuade people, adding "Plus her kid got knocked up" isn't going to change their minds, it's going to make you look mean.
Trust me, the Repubs are COUNTING on people being that mean. And it is happening, at least in junk-food TV land plus the late night joke circuit. Leave it to them. WE'LL take Issues as Stated by the Candidates Directly for $800, Alex, please.
And it's fine if you don't want to reach out to the people whose votes will determine this election, who went for Bush in a big way because we let them make it about personality rather than competence or actual proven issues, who went for Reagan because he talked pretty and gave everybody permission to make fun of bleeding hearts -- those people are not dead yet and I'm pretty sure enough of them are aware they've been lied to that they'd like a chance to help set it right. My anger and disgust at what has happened are feelings, not a rational plan for change. Or Change. People live up to what you expect of them.
If you can refrain from telling them "This is all your fault, you are dead to me" (even WHEN IT IS), they'll do a fuck of a lot better job at joining the clean-up process.
I'm so far to the left I'm a revolutionary, not even a radical. I actually do want to dismantle EVERYTHING and start over. But the only effective means of doing that, the only time it's ever worked, is when it's been a group effort taken on by choice, occurring gradually (I'll be dead, yes, before it happens) and with a lot of changes in direction that could not have been foreseen at the outset. I'm not willing to draw up a list right now of who gets to be in that future and who I think we should give up on permanently. My heart would gladly construct that list, but not my brain, and I let my brain run the show as much as possible.
Maggie, you mean "gradually" like the way the repubs do it?
I'm not "diagnosing" anyone's family. That's a straw horse. What I'm doing is saying that this candidate is outspoken about NOT wanting sensible, rational, sex education in our school system, and she has a daughter who is now pregnant and unmarried.
If you think we should ignore that, I'm just glad you're not deciding our campaign tactics.
The point is that McCain has dug up some trailer trash to run with him because that's who he's going after--the ignorance vote.
He sure is, Dejah. What else is new?
The republican party EXISTS because of the ignorance vote.
Incidentally, if anyone has noticed, they're shitting green nickels about Palin and her pregnant daughter.
Strangely, I feel no need to go to guilt counselling. :o)
All,
Alas, a point of Gilly's has now been disproven though. A major talking point of his was that the Rethugs would never let one of their core constituency--poor ignorant Bible-thumping white trash--near an actual office or nomination.
Now they have.
Be afraid.
And keep rubbing their noses in their shit, violently, often, and with maximum prejudice. Ask them if it smells good, ask em how it tastes, and ask em how they like living in it. Be brutal.
They are.
Oh, lordie. I do have to ask you not to use trailer trash as a class perjorative unless you yourself are from that group (as I am) and are trying to do it tongue-in-cheek. Class-bashing absolutely is not good strategy in this election, and in particular I'd rather not hear hate language here.
I'm brilliant, and I grew up in housetrailers. Ignorance does not equal a particular kind of residence. Most of the people who have supported Bush and Reagan were on the higher economic end of things, anyhow.
And ignorance can be cured. Again, you don't want to help with that work, fine, but don't try to stop those of us who are taking it on.
And, our campaign tactics have been outlined by Obama, who said "Stay the fuck away from Palin's family." (I paraphrase slightly.) I'm following his lead, actually.
"Ignorance can be cured..."
If the person who is ignorant is interested in becoming smarter, it certainly can, but if they already think they're brilliant, then they're not usually much interested in learning.
Especially, if it involves learning from someone whose worldview is about 180 degrees opposed to theirs.
BTW, I make the exalted cut for living in a trailer. :o)
I'm not willing to pass judgment on what Bristol Palin has done or not done.
Maggie - No one has done that. This is all about her mother, the veep pick and her policies. And how her policies for every child and woman in American do NOT match up with her own personal policy regarding her own daughter. Bristol Palin is evidence at this point. Eveidence that her own mother announces officially that she allowed her daughter "choice" and does not allow for that for the women of American because they must must must be owned by men and have their decisions made for them by men/government. While this was legally Sarah Palin's choice being the mother of the minor child, she SAYS "Bristol made the decision on her own". Yet, every other woman in America, according to Palin's policy, is not due that same opportunity. Palin's policies make every woman "the minor child" of government and yet, not capable of making reproductive/family planning decisions on their own.
I most certainly will not back off from this. Its a stick I have been and intend to keep beating all the fundies with until they fucking KNOW this way of thinking is UNAmerican.
And... what Jen said.
I DO understand where you're coming from with the "we don't need to beat them because we're better than they are", BUT you have to understand that this IS a war and their intent is a threat, a real threat, and battling is required at times. This is one of them. The only thing that will stop them is to rise up on their asses and beat them down, "rub their noses in their own shit". Beat them down, WAY down. The time is now. There's too much at stake.
Not to put words in Maggie's mouth - she does just fine on her own - but there is a way to do this with some subtlety. Use the laser instead of the club with the nails in it to beat them.
The conversation about abstinence only training and whether it works or not can still be had, and poor Bristol's name need not be uttered, since she and her mommy are now the gigantic elehants in the room. It will be the FIRST thing anyone thinks of, and you don't have to say a thing.
I work in a company filled with Republicans who regularly vote against their interests (it's a UNION shop for God's sake, and they vote GOP). These are blue collar non fundies - low information voters if you will. I have yet to see or hear from anyone who is not completely aghast at this choice - aghast to the point of NOT VOTING. They won't vote for "that ni**er" - and yes, I hear that here all the time - but I have heard a bunch of them who have decided just to not bother voting at all.
I don't think I'm alone.
"Bristol Palin is evidence at this point. Eveidence that her own mother announces officially that she allowed her daughter "choice" and does not allow for that for the women of American because they must must must be owned by men and have their decisions made for them by men/government."
And let's not kid ourselves about Palin's claim here: Does anyone believe for a second that any kind of real choice was left in her daughter's hands as to having the baby, or even getting married to the kid's father? (I'm envisioning Palin at the wedding, with that psycho Stepford Wife smile plastered on her face, standing behind the groom with a big ole shotgun aimed directly between his shoulder blades.)
Maggie, I'm all for high-mindedness, I understand what you're saying, and I wish you were right. But "This Election Is About Competence, Not Ideology" wasn't exactly a winning strategy for Walter Mondale or the incompetent Dukakis or the cowards Gore and Kerry. Don't kid yourself.
Besides, Tanbark has the right of it: Nobody is personally attacking Palin's daughter. Palin is the one using the girl as a shield, just as Bush uses the troops to hide behind whenever anyone criticizes him. It's a contemptible sleight of hand that's very easy to point out.
Obama's new radio ad in swing states:
“Let me tell you: If Roe vs. Wade is overturned, the lives and health of women will be put at risk. That's why this election is so important,” says the nurse-practitioner who narrates Obama’s ad. “John McCain's out of touch with women today. McCain wants to take away our right to choose. That's what women need to understand. That's how high the stakes are.”
An announcer then claims that “as president, John McCain will make abortion illegal,” before playing an exchange on "Meet the Press" in which McCain told moderator Tim Russert that he favors “a constitutional amendment to ban all abortions.”
He GETS IT. Thank God, he is ON it!!!!
http://www.politico.com/news/sto...0908/
13103.html
I grew up in a trailer for many years... got out of there, got edumacated and found out that for all the fine folks who do make trailers their homes, there are many, many more who make "trailer trash" a fine description of wilful ignorance.
Yes, I did go there for a reason: there were just too many ignorant idiots living in those trailer parks with us who were proud of their ignorance and insisted on telling the rest of us that their ignorance was better than everybody elses. Sort of like a corrupt governor from Alaska telling the rest of us she has foreign policy experience because she lived close to Russia. Or that she is proud of forcing HER choice on her daughter's body...
Once again, Tanbark and Myrtle June are the voices of sanity and reason amidst...um, brilliance.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: when Hockey Monster and her ilk start having respect for the privacy of MY family and everyone else's, that's when I'll respect theirs. Until then, little Bristol's "love" child is fair fucking game.
YES, we need to RAM the hypocrisy down their pious throats, and rub their smug ass faces in it, every chance we get.
No, bring on the spiked club here.
Again, this is WAR.
This is how Hitler came to power, and yes I'm going there. Shitty economy? High poverty rate? Blame outsiders and whip up nationalism and family as the only "real" political values. Relegate women to baby-machines to keep them out of the job sector...Kinder Kuche Kirche! Identify anyone else who objects as "tratiors" and question their patriotism. Ban opposition rallies and a free press. Make up enemies and start false wars as a pretext to empire. Most of all, prey on the stupid and convince them that their stupidity is a virtue, and that it will secure them a place in the New World Order.
Sound familiar?
Drown these morons in their own shit.
Myrtle Hussein June:
where have you been. Obama has allways gotten it....he was handleing hillary with kid gloves (much to my regret)...those have coem off with McCain...listen to him speak..even the "praise" is belittling McCain
Wow, I had forgotten about the other "K K K" !! Thanks for reminding me Jen.
Oh, so when it's Palin's child it's "Oh, its a private matter,
but she chose LIFE!"
Anybody else: "Well you just KNOW the girl's a SLUT, look at how she's dressed, just like those Hollyweird jezebels, and where the HELL were the parents, damned liberal upbringing, the family is so busy they don't have time for GOD in their life, and ya know if they were good parents this would have NEVER happended."
Ya think Governor Palin is rethinking the "abstainance only" means of birth control now?
It goes to governance; I think Governor Palin should be asked about her position on pregnancy and birth control.
It sure beats asking about lapel pins and being bitter.
yowzah. My MacBook is smokin' from this thread.
I'm in the carry a spiked club and beat them all over school myself. How can I not be as a woman in her 40s with a teenage daughter?
Have spent most of my life in the South, including Texas. Male politicians always tried to control women's reproductive and economic lives. Been fighting to keep these laws off me since high school. But these last 8 years in Bushistan have been so much worse. The amplification of the anti-woman tirades and the acceptance of this dreck in the political arena amazes even cynical me.
Somehow having a female misogynist on the 2008 GOP ticket is not a surprise. After all, we are 52% of the US population.
Betcha Palin et al. blame rape victims for getting themselves jumped on by All-American males: "Did you see the short skirt she was wearing? Teasing all the guys ..." No wonder they want to legislate rape victims to have to keep their babies if impregnated. Punishment. Crush those female DFHs. No choice for them if they don't subscribe to fundie Christogospel.
Arrgh. This angers me to a white-hot level. Jen, your KKK reference is right on. I was born in Germany and learned all about that from my non-believing female relatives.
Maggie - I respect your opinions and groove on the beauty of your prose. But it's take no prisoners time.
Well! *G*
What a treat to come back to 'reality' from a GLORIOUS 5 days in the Sierra Nevada at 4,600 ft. with 5,000 of my best friends, camping and eating like kings and queens in the woods and grooving on the best music in the world on stage daytime and swilling fine things and wandering all night from camp to camp pickin and grinnin.
www.strawberrymusicfest.com
And I MEAN what a treat, to be HERE, with MaggieJo's INCREDIBLY brilliant insights to the REALITY of the parent/child thang. It's the perfect dem/pubfundie analogy!!!
And what a treat to be here, and suck up and drink in and wallow in the REALITY of Tan, Myrtle, dejah, The Admiral, murfmom and JEN!!! JEN!!! *G* Must be all that CSA foodie nutrition stirring up yer juices!!! Good to see ya squealin.
You folks rawhk, in a reality way that's just a must be . . . . this is NO time to be mixing our personal constructs with teh biggeh construct at stake . . . our freedoms, our rights, The Constitution, Bill Of Rights, Magna Carta.
Any and EVERYTHING about these thugs, beasts and deplorable ignorant and mean fucks that we can beat them with is fair game.
Obama is NOT gonna be able to negate them, even if elected.
At some point, he'll HAVE to confront them, give them a choice. Most will take the choice.
The rest will need to be 'cared for' lest they commit their own deaths and the deaths of others (as they'd prefer to go down fighting than give in).
At some point, they have to be told they are the evil, their beliefs are evil, and they are not fit for the laws and regulations our Constitution and Bill Of Rights provide for the masses.
On we crawl towards the glow, day by day, with a bit more light shining each day on the slimy creatures in the dark corners who shrivel and die when the beams of reality light them up for all to see.
Best. GNB. Thread/Comments. Evah.
I miss the Sierra's, I miss my thousands of friends, I miss the music, the insanity of 4am jams, the dread of walking 'home' as the sky lightens knowing that an 800 mg dose of Ibuprophen ain't gonna make waking up in 4 hours any easier . . . . knowing that we iz gonna do it all OVER again . . . *G*
But as long as I'm back here off the mountain it's good to see, I'm not alone and GNB has a pulse . . . *G*
And that pulse is quite progressive . . for the MOST part . . . /snicker . . . *G*
hey larue,
sounds like you were in a wonderful place, physically and mentally, up in the Sierras.
however, I'm glad you came to visit us here on your return to .
Good words. Thanks.
Also, one last time--I am fucking SICK of elements in the American Left that think "if we do bad things to bad people, that makes us bad too."
I'm also sick of hearing about how we have to "reach out to" and "educate" Neanderthal knuckle-dragging morons who fight tooth and nail to NOT be educated.
I want them out of public discourse, period. It's like Creationist retards who insist on a "fair debate" on the (non)subject and then take serious scientists' lack of response of "proof" of their "fear" of being wrong.
Wake up, folks. Making these Bible-thumping cretins herb tea and teaching them yoga to get rid of their "anger issues" is not going to do jack shit.
Gay? Not Christian? Immigrant? Not a baby machine staying at home? THEY WANT YOU DEAD or ENSLAVED. Wake the fuck up.
You don't play nice with people who want you dead or seek to take away your fundamental freedoms.
If you find the idea of a fight distasteful, then please get out of the way of those of us who don't. Or to quote a pal of mine:
"Get off yer cross; we need the wood for the fire."
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