Hillary is saying it in a manner which makes me think that she really believes it. Obviously her memory of what really happened after she touched down is off for some reason.
This all goes back to running a bad campaign with terrible messaging. She has made 'experience' her word of choice. Experience? You're going to run against Old Man McCain and run on experience? That old coot has been in Congress since Byrd's 5th term. And considering that she has a total of four more years than her primary opponent and her biggest vote was on something that was the biggest giant mistake in the fucking universe, she would've done better with another argument.
Hillary is trying really hard to squeeze electoral gold out of being First Lady for 8 years. I can see her and Bill jabbering for hours about policy initiatives, vote counts in Congress, strategizing against every fake scandal that the idiots flung at them, but the only policy initiative that she publicly led was universal healthcare(or whatever you want to call the complicated non-single payer plan she finally came up with), also a failure.
It's like her campaign honestly didn't do a self-assessment of what might be her actual strengths and instead said 'what the hell, I'm a Clinton and the biggest fucking deal in this race'. And then when it became her and Obama her strategy was all about trying to play to perceived weaknesses in the Obama campaign ('Look he doesn't even have a full term in the Senate, we haven't even gotten done hazing him yet') rather than asking if what she was saying reflected her at all. So having pushed this message she has to support it no matter how ridiculous it starts to look.
She doesn't have any chance to win this thing in a fair way. And there ain't no one around her that is going to tell her that(especially when they are still getting massive amounts of cash from her). At this point I am much more interested in trying to get Gravel back in the debates. He may fight McCain for the grizzled vote, but at least he has something interesting to say. And he can actually point to something courageous he did when he actually served in Congress(entering the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record).
It's time to start going after John "Al Qaeda in Iran" McCain. Any candidate not willing to do that at this point should get out for the person that will.
And there ain't no one around her that is going to tell her that(especially when they are still getting massive amounts of cash from her).
THAT is how corruption of the decision making process begins. It seems to be one of the commonest ways.
Here, the people who aren't talking straight are taking money from the victim and don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
In a different scenario, the root cause flaw can be their belief that the victim will fire them on a whim (bad boss syndrome).
Either way, when people stop telling you the ugly unvarnished facts and start telling you what they think you want to hear instead, you've got a real problem on your hands.
Brittney becomes relevant here. Really. That's one of the issues that's deepening the hole she's dug for herself.
I hadn't thought of Britney. The other person this reminded me of was Bill O'Reilly. Didn't he say something once about having combat experience -- a claim that turned out to be a gross exaggeration at best?
The WaPo Fact Checker column looked into Hillary's visit to Bosnia and concluded that her story is simply not credible.
"Hillary is saying it in a manner which makes me think that she really believes it."
"Jerry, just remember, it's not a lie ... if you believe it." -- George Costanza
What's next, Hillary? Playing dress-up in combat togs, like someone else we know? That's the road she's headed down.
Yeah, bilious Bill-o claimed he'd been in a fire-fight somewhere in "central or south america," one time. it's the vagueness on the detail of which continent (!) on which the events occurred which casts doubt on the claims...
"She doesn't have a chance to win this in a fair way" Given the recent GOP like shuck and jive by Hillary and Bill the likelihood of their stealing the nomination does not seem far fetched.
Ease up jerks. I'm tired of self-selected combat vets telling us how it should be for everyone else who may have experienced a terrifying time under fire. It's different for everybody, depending on circumstances. The Iraq vet isn't the same as the Viet Nam vet isn't the same as the WWII vet isn't the same as a cop on the beat isn't the same as a battered woman who gets beat by her man, etc. etc. It's all combat and stress, no matter the venue or the participants.
I was under fire in Belfast, Northern Ireland a few times. Sure, it wasn't the same for me as it was for the guys who lived it day in and day out, but goddamit, the bullets were whizzing by, the noises were loud, and nobody knew which way to turn. We were scared shitless, we put our heads down and we ran. Tell me I didn't experience it and it was't REAL and I'll come over and make you eat your fucking Kbar.
So ease up and stop piling on. Criticize the Senator for political and policy issues, but stop fucking jumping on every word she says unless you're prepared to do exactly the same for Obama and McCain. There are very many legitimate issues on which to question Senator Clinton, but this nitpicking of shit is getting out of hand and just as bad as the Rethug wing of the O'Reilly Crowd.
You're starting to sound like a bunch of shrill little boys in a treehouse.
Ease up? I'll ease up when the Senator acknowledges electoral reality. Until then Sinbad says you're full of shit. In this treehouse you just can't make shit up on the stump.
Uh, dejah? The point isn't how she reacted to being under fire. That isn't even remotely the point. The point is whether it ever happened in the first place. This is not "jumping on every word she says." It's fact-checking on a pretty extraordinary claim.
I feel worse and worse for her, but I do hope that in the end, her better angels will triumph and she'll be able to see clearly what's gone wrong and begin to heal herself and her reputation.
"self-selected combat vets"... okay... well.. not quite sure what that means but...
dejah... what happened and what she says happened are clearly, 2 different things. so.
Speaking of being under fire, the green zone took two separate mortar barrages today. Don't know about casualties, but something like 15-20 rounds went into the nerve center of the occupation...most of them supposedly from Shiite areas.
This; five days after Cheyney and McCain were in Baghdad for a BRIEF "things are looking up!" show-the-flag run.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23762575/
It looks like it was one of the Sadr splinter groups, tanbark. His followers aren't going to wait another six months. This is going to be another bloody summer.
Dejah,
I once had a wild-eyed criminal who was running from the police brandish a pistol at me and a carful of children. I responded quickly and burned rubber out of there. No-one got hurt, and the perp was captured a few minutes later. Traumatic and scary none-the-less, and a true story. But I would never imply that the experience qualified me to be my city's chief of police, even if I was running for the job.
You haven't heard Obama making that error in running for the office of CinC, and you won't. That's because his advisers understand that there's now a very popular news medium where educated and knowledgeable citizens aren't afraid to call a politician on his BS, and back it up their contentions with factual and logical and experiential support. Hillary's team apparently thinks it's still 1988, when the only news outlets were one-way, and clubby political reporters were more prone to let a spurious implication like this slide.
So if you're going to get angry with "shrill little boys in a treehouse" because your "shoe-in" candidate is losing, you might start with those to whom she's paying millions of dollars in consulting fees. The least these so-called experts should be doing is warning her against making absurdly empty claims like this. Instead, per Wengler and Stormcrow, they're acting like courtiers and feeding her delusions of grandeur.
The kind of bogus implication Hillary draws here is business as usual for a typical Republican candidate. For a Democratic candidate in the age of the Internet, it's a bloody embarrassment.
This is really pretty sad, since this is a really dumb claim to make.
If a First Lady came under fire, it would be news. Period. Every paper in the country would cover it, probably as their lead article. The notion that it would have just not been noted is actually pretty bizarre. She had to have known about this at some level - that the tapes and logs of her travels would still be there, and would be quickly dug up to test her claims. Maybe her subconscious realizes that this isn't going to happen and wanted to put a stop to it.
I'm listening to the Sheryl Crow song that tells of this particular incident in Bosnia with Hillary. Heartrending, tortured stuff, with suitably fractured harmonies. You almost feel you're there!!
Hillary touts her "experience".
Now she tells this "under fire in Bosnia" story.
Was she present at the Big Bang, too?
Was she present at the Big Bang, too?
No memory of it, given the extreme shell shock.
Didn't Ronald Reagan used to confuse things he had actually done with parts he played in movies?
Hmmm........
Well, to be charitable about Reagan, he might have been confused by the early stages of his brain disease.
Not to mention that facts were kinda blurry for him...
But this is another WTF moment in the HRC campaign. It's the panicked flailing of someone drowning, throwing out narratives to see what sticks.
I lost respect for her over the last seven years for so rarely sticking up for the issues she claimed were so dear to her. When she wasn't outright voting for outrageous idiocies, she would stand by without protest.
Still, I used to have more respect for her, until she started doing degenerate campaign tactics.
I sent emails for years, telling her the Democrats were sick of GOP-lite thinking.
She shoulda listened.
Which one of you dipshits is a troll and which not? Sounds like repuglies spreading devisiveness and hate. Hard to tell, isn't it. But the truth is, spreading hate is just that, no matter who does it. Fuck you all. I think you're desperate.
Which one of you dipshits is a troll and which not?>/i>
Okay, you got me! Bought to rights. Troll and dipshit in one very sorry frame. Just don't send me to Gitmo.......... if you can help it.
Thanks.
......... and obviously my lack of tagging skill has troll writ large.
Jimbo; we're all trolls! The whole fucking site is just an alternate for Late German Fascists. :o)
You didn't know that? :o)
And, more seriously; in fact, MUCH more seriously:
What Wengler said, about "the Terminator". In pulsating neon.
It looks like she's into just wrecking the party, if she can't control it.
She's the dinosaur wing of the democratic party, fighting for it's life.
dejah - "under sniper fire" is far and away different from taking the extra precautionary measures she describes after being called on it. She lied. Plain and simple.
The Clintons, both of them, will say anything and do anything to get back to the White House. Anything. And they have. And they will.
Jimbo - Don't you have some "stayin' the course" to be doing?
Sad, just plain sad.
How out of it do you have to become, to say things like this in front of a TV camera?
Not just a lie, but a naked & pathetic one at that. If she'll spit out whoppers like this one with a straight face just to get nominated, what can Americans expect from her once she's President?
One has to strongly suspect some kind of prescription drug problem here, seriously ... someone running for a municipal seat wouldn't be stupid enough to blurt crazy nonsense like this, let alone a candidate for POTUS. As noted above, this isn't 1988: BS in public can be refuted very quickly & thoroughly now. It's obvious noone is telling her to mind her P's & Q's, including herself ... I can just see her clique of yes-men congratulating her on another "slam-dunk" right after this regrettable spectacle, feeding more fuel to the delusional mindset.
I hope she packs it in soon - she's not doing her party any favours, to put it mildly.
I think you raise a very good point. Thank you for raising it. I never thought of it that way. You are, of course, obviously right.
Under sniper fire, usually results in a dead target. The job of a sniper is not to keep peoples heads down, but to take them off.
Very very few people who have been sniped suffer PTSD, dead people don't as a rule suffer from mental abberations after they are dead.
Most of the sniper rifles I have seen have silencers. So if you were under sniper fire, and you lived, you never heard the shot --- you might have heard the angry bee passing.
But as Bill has told us only two of the remaining 4 candidates love America, Hillary and John.
dejah thoris: so we should easy up because she is a women..its fine for her to go all kitchen sink on obama, but easy up on hillary, shes delace and sensitive after all...lets deal with her with kids gloves while playing hardball with every one else.
dejah that is distrubingly sexist.
I still think that, a few months from now, the GOP will be leading the hunt to get bush out of office BEFORE the election, as a sop to the voters, to try to salvage something from the tsunami.
Of course, Cheyney will have to go first, to get rid of bush's buffer.
But now, Hillary has added herself to the buffer-list. As long as there is the possibility that she will be the nominee, the republicans will maintain a hard-line, because they will know that they have a chance in the election. As long as she's a "viable candidate", they will have no great reason to fear the voters.
And that's why she and the GOP have been going after Obama with their Rove-smears.
I don't believe it will work. I believe in the people. I believe that the hack-jobs the repubs do every election has worn out their welcome.
In fact, I think the MSM will only tote so much of the horseshit-foul hod for these people who are so afraid of meaningful change, and, as some of them are already doing, they will increasing focus on the realities of what bush and the GOP, with Clinton's help, has done to us.
tanbark hasa point i think...im seeing fox anchors calling out other fox brodcasters on the antiobama BS...somthing is happening...the times they are a changen.
Hillary Campaign: She "Misspoke" About Bosnia Sniper Incident
By Greg Sargent - March 24, 2008, 2:10PM
http://
tpmelectioncentral.talkin...he_misspoke.php
Here's the YouTube clip of Hillary and Chelsea, sprinting to safety across the tarmac. :o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...h?
v=U2rtBUfc6YA
Here's the YouTube clip of Hillary and Chelsea, sprinting to safety across the tarmac. :o)
Wow!! I didn't know Sinbad could move that fast!?!
Some grist for the mill, from Carville. Who should keep his fucking mouth shut, but OTOH, I think he IS pissing off some powerful democrats, and maybe increasing the chances that they'll come out for Obama. :o)
Richardson will help some with Latinos. Wish he'd done it before Texas; it would probably have "given" Obama the state, and have blunted some of the talk about Clinton's recovery.
Well, better late than never...right, Senators Edwards and Gore? :o)
Tanbark-Hussein.
Shit, I always forget to post the link. Sorry.
http://apnews.myway.com//article.../
D8VK3U500.html
@Tan:
Possibility: Edwards and Gore are waiting for a stalemated convention.
If Hillary and Barack do each other enough damage, either Edwards or Gore would appear as a sensible and winnable choice. Either or both for that matter.
Until recently, the Clinton years had a more or less rosy glow to them. All concerned could have enjoyed their retirement, let (or helped) their reputations grow over time, and clucked disapprovingly over the Bush disaster years.
Now the antics of the Clinton coterie are going to eat away at the nostalgia for those times and cause people to remember Bill's ruthlessness on the campaign trail in '92. Sistah Souljah. Handling the "bimbo eruptions" by painting Bill's accusers as liarss and borderline psychotics. The human sacrifice of Ricky Ray Rector.
(Somewhere in Sing Sing (or its modern equivalent) there's a guy on death row thanking God that Hillary is one of New York's Senator and not its governor.)
But if gamblers quit while they were ahead, Las Vegas would still be just a wide spot in the highway.
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