Excellent Delta blues reference.
The bills dead, good thing ('tho the circumstances are much less than desirable)
The Dems may have a chance to lead and pass a good bill (I'd prefer driftglass' plan) DeLong's or Krugman's 'good' plan (similar to the Swedish nationalization) would be a lot better. Obama has to twist Pelosi's arm here and step up to the plate.
The pubs want this to stretch out. It benefits them in the congressional races. They want to force the dem house majority to do it without them so they can re-take congress as newtie did. They have a plan.....
Additionally, the more they do this, the more they shift responsibility to the dems. I believe it's the gop's hail mary knowing the presidency is lost so they are setting up a plan for the congressional races. They don't give one shit about what this does to country..... especially main streeters. They care that they save their party.
I do blame pelosi for the impeachment off the table bullshit though. I want to see some fucking frog marching..... right NOW.
boner is doing rove's bidding. No question. Save the party and bush is playing his part. We officailly have no President. There is no offical government in this country. There will be no elections.
The Republican Party: We're just a bunch of pussies.
McCain will take the blame for this.
Pelosi had the Democrats at the table. McCain "suspended his campaign" and came back to Washington and the results we get is, two-thirds of the Republicans say "fuck-you"?
Wow.
1. People will blame McCain if they "blame" anyone.
2. The bill was WILDLY unpopular. People are glad it failed.
3. Now, it's time to write one that works.
You think the Democrats can DO that?
"You think the Democrats can DO that?"
Can, yes.
Will, that's the real question. After Pelosi (whom I suspect would be liberal Republican if she could get away with it in her district), and Hoyer, who are our options for competent House leadership?
What would be really cool is for Obama to sit back while the asshat leadership of parties in the House screw the pooch and just at that instance the voting public realizes it is time for the water hose he brandishes said hose and breaks the deadlock for the good of all...
"Holy Sainted Sweet Milk Chocolate Jesus' Mother of All Fuck!"
I am SO using that in conversation.
This wasn't the best bill, but apparently McCain queered the pitch and the GOP (probably wanting to show their voters that they didn't slavishly support everything Bush shoved in front of them like slopping the hogs for the past 7 years) may end up paying for it.
I watched C-SPAN and CNBC in sync; as the voting reached the point of no return the Dow tanked 700 points, but came back and fluctuated wildly as traders ran to the T-bill desks. I think it finally closed 590 points or so down.
I am now going to check on my mutual fund, so if you hear anguished screams, don't worry too much.
Boehner can go fuck himself.
Dow down 777 and still dropping.
this is bad.
very. fucking. bad.
This bill was shit. It deserved to be shitcanned. From a political perspective the Republicans get blamed.
The best of both worlds.
I'm sure there will be a lot about the horrible plunge of the Dow Jones, but the day was coming. Enabling criminal leaders and professional thieves has its downsides. This is just the end of the beginning of the major economic fuckup.
There was no oversight in that bill for how the money was to be spent. Just pretend oversight. IF they can produce a real bill with real buy-in power, real oversight, and real consequences for the participating corporations, then I will be all for it. Until then though, we are stuck between the politicians who are trying to give their friends on Wall Street free money and a Republican leadership that doesn't know WTF its own ideology tells it to do anymore. They are flailing around helplessly waiting for someone to put them out of their misery.
John mccain is having a ball with this "I wurked harrrd bringin' everyone to the table".... it is NOT his place. He's a fucking Senator only NOT THE PRESIDENT, not a house leader, NOT a sentorial leader. He's a fucking liar.
He's calling on congress to get back to work. He hope people can put aside partisan shit. He very speaking of the words is highly partisan. gah.
Since when is the TRUTH that pelosi spoke, partisan? Here's where they must be named and blamed and shamed. That's not partisan, that's the facts, ma'am.
Hey all you whiny libruls.
OSAMA! Boo! Obama is a SEKRET MUZLIM and STUFF. FAMILY VALUES! WAR ON TERRORIZM! 9-11 9-11 9-11!!!
...um....and...um....ahh...whatcha doing with that axe, electorate?
The bill was shit (sorry for the echo wengler). But what is shittier are all the wankers on the left who are falling all over themselves to give the big daddies on Wall Street huge coin.
There are basically two models from the ninties to follow. One is the Japanese way were you deny reality and try to stay the course that the market is telling you is unsustainable. The other is the Swedish way where you admit reality, you admit that in a capitalist system some banks should and will fail, while the others that can be saved should be -- but only after wiping out the stock holders and management. The Swedish model was a great success and Swedish taxpayers may have lost very little on it. The Japanese way led to a decade of stagnation.
It is beyond disgusting to see intelligent economists like Weasel Krugman as much as admit the plan was crap but supporting it anyway.
What this whole incident is showing America is that Democrats are too cowardly to lead. Obama is no fool, he knew the right thing to do, but refused to do it. The saddest part was that America had to be saved by a bunch of whack job wingnuts. And the Left are crying that their big deddies on Wall Street didn't get their big fat welfare check.
The Majority of the American populace did not want this bill to pass.
The democrats voted for this bill and against the wishes of the populace.
The Rethugs killed the bill.
Not a bad day's work for the rethugs.
Gollum-Sucks may be asking for refunds from Hillary, Obama, Johnnie Keating 5 McCain, Lieberman and Pelosi.
Speaking of which ... nah why bother asking where the brave senators from NY have been.
Funny thing, Everything that Ron Paul told you for the last several years has come true.
So thank the congressional repthugs tonight for saving your bacon while the dems were ready as always to give your pittance away.
Credit and lending will start to ease again next week. Real lending...for real production. 21% of Morgan was bought today by those poor, always in a depression, Japanese for a few billion shekels. Buffett bought into Gollum Sucks last week and his ROI on his investment looks to be 17% guaranteed. McCain rolled another loser ... thank GOD McCain can be counted on to sell out anything and everything. I suspect his old talking buddies in VietNam are having a few laughs at the old Maverick.
Schadenfraude is almost as good as sex and their is no reload time.
You said it. What a cluster fuck!
Oh and there is a third option ( hell there are dozens of options for bills ) but my preferred option is for congress to do nothing. No bill. Nothing. nada. zip zero bupkis zilch.
Wall street has an overexuberance problem, wall street can go cold turkey for a while. The world will not end if Morgan or Gollum or BofA or Citi goes belly up. There will be bargains and values among the dross, money will be made, growth will happen.
The bush got the dems in a catch 22.... there was no right answer here. On purpose. The house pubs want the lobbiests in the mix so they can keep gettin' their kickbacks at least. All they're going to do is feed money direct to the insurance industry and other lobby reps rather than where it might do some good.
The reported phone calls they were talking about were lobbiests not tax payers. Well I'd bet some of them were anyway.
Had the dems told them to go shit in their hat, and then the market plunged..... well that would be their fault too.
Its all a set up.
The Republican Party:
"You hurt my widdle feelings!"
I find it fascinating that 40% of Democrats voted against it.
Wall street has an overexuberance problem, wall street can go cold turkey for a while. The world will not end if Morgan or Gollum or BofA or Citi goes belly up. There will be bargains and values among the dross, money will be made, growth will happen.
CK | 09.29.08 - 3:09 pm | #
WOOT THERE IT IS...
There is absolutely NO guarantee that these people will 1) be responsible in their business practices or 2) put their fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, bondholders, employees and vendors ahead of the interests of the sharp end of the management pyramid without a heaping dose of FUCK YOU EAT IT.
Any kind of bailout without equity stakes and re-regulation virtually insures that the free-market system will cease to exist as we know it; instead, you will end up with a gamed financial system with serious fascistic/phalangist political overtones.
The banks and investment houses are in the shit right now because they're terrified to lend to one another (because who knows what kind of toxic paper they might be holding) and if the governments of the world don't save their collective asses they'll have to take it in the shorts.
So fucking be it. (And yes, I have two 401k's in the system, both of which have lost money in the last six months).
I don't give a fuck if Wall Street sends two balls and a dick. (as Hemingway said...:o) ) I say we call every bluff they've got, until we get a package that looks like it came from FDR's desk, instead of george bush's.
AND; I'm not at all sure that this benefits the republicans in the down-ticket races.
That's like saying that the american voters will buy their "let's blame congress!" bullshit, after 8 years of george bush and nearly 6 years of his $600 billion dollar fucking of the cluster. In the polls I'm seeing, we're winning the blame game, and we should. Only an idiot can pass this off as the dems fault.
And gas and food prices bouncing around at record levels, thousands of people losing their homes, and now, Wall Street (Our economic "flagship"...gahhh!) heading for the depths of the North Atlantic, will, I think, make people a lot smarter about who did the reamjob on them.
Wall Street doesn't get it's way so they throw a hissy fit and drop the Dow a few hundred. And McCain announces he made the deal happen before it went down in flames.
Pass the popcorn.
PS- Ditto to Tanbark above, any plan needs to have FDR's approval.
The Dow may have to slide down a couple thousand more points before it hits bottom, at which point it will have erased the speculated (and fictional) value and return to trading stuff at actual value.
I agree with the above:
The Democratic Congress tried to do Paulson's bidding; the country erupted in rage, and the GOP fled in shame.
Fine. If Wall Street really needs the bailout, then make it FDR redux. Grab those pinstriped bastards by the short hairs and explain, calmly, that they're going to be playing by new rules. Confiscatory taxes on the speculators; Uncle Sam owns the firms lock stock and barrel; draconian oversight from Eliot Ness's grandsons; CEO and all executive pay and benefits packages will match that of the Civil Service. Masters of the Universe can abide by harsh rules, or they can go the hell to the poorhouse.
Either Wall Street really needs this, in which case they'll take it (and Bush will sign it), or they don't need it and the whole thing was a setup from the beginning.
...um....and...um....ahh...whatcha doing with that axe, electorate?
Jen | 09.29.08 - 2:25 pm
For weeks I have been thinking of my favorite Dilbert cartoon ever.
Secretary: "Why do I work five times as hard as you and only earn one-tenth of your salary?"
Pointy-Haired Boss: "That's because there are lots of people like you, and very few people like me."
Secretary: "THAT'S because the people like me eventually kill the people like you."
It sounds as if nobody, & I mean nobody, outside of that tight band of certain elected officials, actually had full information of what the damn Bailout entailed. If so, they had to have known for a hell of a long time. Why then did this all of a sudden become so urgent? And if it was such a serious issue, why could Treasury only come up with a 2.5 page report? Middle School size paper to deal with an economic disaster! Damn! Are they totally lacking in "serious?"
Why, then, didn't anyone in Congress demand full disclosure? If someone is lending/pissing away your money don't you ask questions? The devil's in the details. I think that's the crux of how this whole issue was handled. The electorate is no longer going to take double-speak, bs, etc. from the elected officials. That party(s) is over! How many mess-ups do we have to witness & experience before we say "enough?" This Katrina Economy is the camel that broke everyone's (D, R, I) back (finally, Katrina, I guess, wasn't good enough for these idiots to learn a lesson, neither was Rita or Ike or the bridge in MN), we had to go all the way. Lessons not learned. Basically with regard to all elected officials, it's: YOUR WORD IS WORTHLESS! So, heck no, full disclosure. See that's the price of losing credibility & governance.
Ordinary people who have been carrying the tax burden for so long wonder why their elected officials waited until now to turn around and say "You know, we want your poor middle class hard working ass to give more. I know, I know, but hang in there because one day you'll be, if you work so damn hard, you'll reach that top 2.5% of those who'll never be taxed." And those 2.5% brought us the gang of incompetence. That's the American Dream. No picket fence. Sorry to bust the Santa.
With regard to the ordinary person, it's about being shafted for over 8 years recently & 20+ year in total oblivion. I believe the electorate is finally awakening. And nobody has successfully explained the conundrum of taxpayers bailing these fat cats out and how it would be reciprocated. Yes, I get the global financial instrument's connectvity. That's been there, where was regulation? In the Caymans? We, the middle income tax payers, have been, after all, paying the tax burden. I mean, someone entered our (metaphorically speaking) homes and took the silver, the furniture, scholarships for our kids, made you get at least 3 jobs just to stay afloat and feed/clothe your children; and the thieves were there in your fridge, drinking from the last of your OJ carton and they turned around from that fridge, shut the door and said "Sorry, ma'am, it's the robber man." And you shied away because you were trying to hold on to the tidbit the !@#$%$ left on the counter. And we were so grateful for that crumb.
That's why ordinary people are pissed. Forget the politicians, who postured today, we were just a convenient prop ... for today.
So sorry to just let out. But I've just about had enough of this apathy and I'm so damn worried that we'll all not collectively get out there and VOTE! Please vote.
countesy of the inner tubes...here's the youtube of skip james' great song.
02.50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R...h?v=Rv-
_mzVBSF8
Can you just imagine that: 40% of Democrats and 60% of Republicans actually listened to their constituents! We actually had a brief moment of representative govt!
I say brief though, because they will all get on their high horses the day after Election Day and go back to doing what is good and right for themselves and their buddies and to hell with those footing the bill.
One problem with the congers getting much support for ANYTHING they do, is that they're doing it behind closed doors.
I'd like to SEE Pelosi's speech, to see for myself how "partisan" it was...and while I'm reading it I'll keep in mind just how "bipartisan" the republicans have been, for the past 8 years.
lets not fool oursleves..thsi was a bad bill, but the republicans opposed it bacuse it was weighted too far in our favor...let nothign pass until progrsive have the power in the house and senate...nothing that protects us (let alone benifits us) will pass untill that happens.
Oh I liek th e Chris King version of the song best.
Somewhat good news. I called my county registrar yesterday to get my absentee ballot, and the person taking care of my call said that it will take longer than normal because they are INUNDATED with new registrations and requests for absentee ballots.
Too bad this is California, which always goes to the Democrat,(fuck Reagan) but if in this state we are getting such an increase, I'm sure other states are experiencing the same thing.
I write this because with a little patience, we are going to get our reps to give us the kind of bill we want, even if we have to wait to write a second bill after Obama becomes POTUS. People forget that nothing is written in stone, and that bad bills can be overridden.
LC, some of that going on here, in South Cackalack. :o)
Vote early and often. :o)
LCforevah - wonderful post there. You reminded me to call and verify that I am registered. I didn't want any surprises and they were only to happy to verify that. I am. whew. Additionally, I thought you had to vote abstentee to vote early but NO. We have actual early voting and it begins on Thursday!! I'm very excited about this 
I will be there on Thursday!! I will vote.
She also told me that they are very busy with a steady stream of registrants which is unusual. Made my whole day!
And I'm with you on the patience and overriding bad bills. Exactly. That's what they were trying to do I think with the $250B starter payment rather than the $700B one time request they'd made. Just enough to get us through I think is what they were going for.
Now Pelosi's speech was also reflective of her constituancy and the constituants of both parties across the country. It wasn't directed at congress but at bush and I beleive she thought they were united under how the bush policies really didn't deserve to be bailed out but they'd come together to do it just the same. It was a protest to the bushies. Now, if the bushies were offended by that truth. She was making the point that congress as a whole now had to save the country from the bush policies. Any republican not understanding thaaaat is fucking stupid.
Bottom line is they are now blaming congress... NOT BUSH and NOT the republican policies. Even on morning joe he and tucker were blaming bill clinton for passing the law that allowed po people to get a house. Oh the horror. Thing is, the speculators and preditory lender liars brought this down. Yet they continue to spin it onto the congress. That's a loser for us. This was all political stunt. All of it. I think pelosi standing up there and reflecting what the American people were saying and promising the bush policies were over was also representative government. BIG time. Bohner planned to pull out after promising votes just to blame the dems. All a stunt.
I agree on all your points Myrtle. I really felt that the 250 was a stop-gap to get us throught the election.
People really underestimate Pelosi-- as much as a great number of Americans wanted to start impeachment proceedings, she knew it would take Congress' eye off the ball--getting as many bills as possible passed to benefit our citizens. Besides, does everyone realize that had impeachment been enacted for any number of "evildooers" before Bush left office, he would have pardoned all of them!
Better to see what we can do in terms of investigations and impeachments after the Rethugs have no chance to alter the results.
The combination of Pelosi as Speaker and Obama as POTUS is going to be phenomenal--the possibility of a quorum majority Democratic Senate will make this the most powerful Democratic juggernaut in ages.
Which we will need to fix the mess the Regressive Retards leave us with.
"The Market Will Fluctuate." Advice from the original J.P. Morgan to a newbie investor back in the day.
The LIBOR is at a record high. Whoopdedoo. The Libor is the rate at which banks would loan to other banks for specific periods of time. The rate represents what banks think of each others holdings, and risk positions. Right now the banks don't think much of each other. Bank's don't know how much exposure the other party might have to failed derivative contracts. Whoot not going to lend to them ... Uncertainty is a bitch. As for the rest of the crap about "Main street" not being able to pay its bills, companies closing their doors yadda yadda. Not true in general, always true in some specific. Their are always firms that screw the pooch and end up going under. Badcess for one is good news for someone else. There is really 0 need for congress to do anything. Banks will not sit on money that earns nothing, money must work or the money managers find themselves selling magazine subscriptions in the digital age. If the derivatives market folds, the banks that didn't play that market will be sitting pretty. Find those banks and deal with them. If you are lucky enough to OWE money to some of the loser banks, enjoy the free ride --- but there is absolutely no reason you should keep any deposits with them.
Rules for life:
1) When the shit hits the fan, first you unplug the damn fan.
2) then you clean out the shit.
3) then you take your leisurely time finding out which damn fool threw the shit at the fan and you sink him into the cesspool.
4) Then you spray some fabreeze around to get the remaining stench out of the workplace and start making whatever it was that you were making before the damnfool decider decided to throw feces at the hypnotic machine.
While everyone might like to have a home, not everyone is able to afford one. Likewise with Lambourghinis, yachts, professional soccer franchises, funky sex toys, beef wellingon and high speed internet.
Ah well, last night was a good night to prospect amongst the dross of yesterday's market hiccup. Lots of people appeared to have done that.
To paraphrase Monty Phython, this is a dead emergency.
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