What total bullshit.
Try as I might, exercise as I do, ride my bicycle 2,500 miles a year as I am...
240 pounds seems to be where I stay in a good year.
Yeah, I have dreams of lower. And I ain't giving up hope.
But FUCK some store that decides I'm not desirable enough to mingle with the skinny folk -- all of whom would just blow away come along a little wind.
And a store that says a 160 pound woman is too damn big? They can kiss my 240 pound body and its fat male ass goodbye.
LM,
DO NOT FUCKING GET ME STARTED.
Most women's clothing is made like CRAP anyway. The plus-sized stuff--and the maximum size at which things become "plus" and therefore unavailable has been creeping down over the years (used to start at 18, then 16, now 14 and I've even seen size 12 as a "plus" size!!)--is made even crappier.
And FUCK OLD NAVY. I used to get my (normal sized) summer layering tops (for under my blazer) there. No more.
Oh yeah and if you think being a plus size lady is tough, try being a Plus Petite. For years, Nordstrom's and Macy's had this line, which was great if you were big but smaller in stature. Gone the way of the dodo bird for the most part.
Getting casual clothes is only a small part of the battle. Try getting NICE, AGE-APPROPRIATE work clothes in a plus size. I don't mean the overpriced, stodgy, still-made-of-thin-cloth stuff from Talbot's. I mean, NORMAL FUCKING CLOTHING in a plus size.
Remember, over half of all American women are over a size 12. So where's the clothing to match?
Also, what is UP with this "size 0, size 00, and size 000" (yes I really DID see a size 000 on offer--it was either DKNY or Anne Taylor) shit??
How the FUCK is ANYONE a size 000? Are people buying their fucking premature infants $800 silk and linen suits?
Oh yeah, Gilly was also always AMAZED at the lack of clothing for larger gals. We would be out somewhere and he'd stop in to (pick your chain here) to pick up something for himself or the kids, and I would see something cute, and fuck having it even in the higher end of normal sizes, there WAS no plus size section in many FOR THE WOMEN (or it was regelated to the rear of the store, understocked, and kept in general disarray, like H&M's now-extinct plus sizes). In the meantime, as noted, he was still able to find stuff that was LOOSE on him in any location that sold clothing of any sort for men, from Modell's (where I still have to struggle to find women's stuff that fits) to department stores.
Here's the bitch of it—this kind of size/sale point ghetto-ization actually complicates people's lives in ways beyond what I've described.
Jen gets at it in mentioning the “Petite-Plus” conundrum.
Do you know how many women I know who are small up top—maybe wearing a size 6 or 8, and wearing like a 14 or 16 down below? These women have to go to two different places to shop. One for tops—the other for bottoms. Who needs to go to one more place to shop when you once could get it all done in one place?
And Old Navy's dodge about puttng the stuff online—wouldn't it make sense to set things up so someone who might be potentially hard-to-fit can actually try the Goddamned clothes on? I mean, when you can't try the stuff on, you're more prone to make a sizing error. And when you make an error like that, instead of being able to take the stuff back to the store for an adjustment, you have to mail it back, incurring shipping costs, and re-stocking fees that the retailer docks...the...customer...for--
You know what? I think I get it. 
Haven't been in awhile - Christmas is still a few months away - but hell, even Ann Taylor has expanded to displaying sizes over 12 in their stores, and they were the standard-bearer for nothing over a size 12. I don't see them going out of business.
I'm not tellin' them squat. I'd rather they just quietly go out of business.
Don't even get me started on this whole mess...*grrrrrrrrrrrrr*
BTW, my roommate (who I think is around a 12 or so--she's lost a fair amount of weight, but she looked great beforehand, and is still very curvy in ways that would make lots of grown men fall out their car doors should she walk by 
asked someone at Victoria's Secret once why they didn't carry bras in the DD range, only to be told rather snottily that they didn't regard women with big tits as, and I quote, "a desirable demographic".
As for myself, Lane Bryant is better than it used to be in some ways, although I've never found any of their panties to either fit me correctly or not have the elastic fall apart after 1-2 washings; I have, however, bought numerous pairs of jeans & knit tops that work just fine, and a black eyelet dress w/a very full skirt (almost a Dior New Look effect) that's gotten me a lot of compliments. It's still hard to find things that fit well and show off the curves you want to show off without being skin-tight and embarassing--surely there's a happy medium for those of us of A Certain Age and A Certain Weight who don't want to look like either slutty teenagers or our own mothers? (Actually, my mom wouldn't wear a lot of that crap...nice to know I'm not the only one in the family who finds decorated sweatshirts sickening...)
Oh, and re: H&M: Let's not forget that Karl Lagerfeld pitched a MAJOR hissy fit after designing a line of low-priced clothes for them when he found out that OMG FAT WOMEN bought clothes there...the "fat" in question being maybe a 16 tops, the clothes being cut rather skimpily from what I can tell. (Ironic in light of his having lost 90 lbs. or so in recent years--how, I don't know, but it can't have been in a healthy way, as he's looked like an overly tanned corpse ever since.) I've never seen anything I'd call plus size clothes in H&M (and we had one of the first ones in the US here in Boston), although IIRC they do sell them overseas.
Robin correctly posited, in part:
surely there's a happy medium for those of us of A Certain Age and A Certain Weight who don't want to look like either slutty teenagers or our own mothers? (Actually, my mom wouldn't wear a lot of that crap...nice to know I'm not the only one in the family who finds decorated sweatshirts sickening...)
Um, NO, Robin, apparently there ARE no choices. Closest thing is Eileen Fischer, which is sort of universal-age but VERY VERY pricey. As in a nice, 3-piece drapey silk thing to wear to a wedding that you could get in polyesther in a "regular" size for under $100 skyrockets to almost $700. Unreal.
And yeah, I HATE Lane Bryant. First of all, I'm in a wierd place bodywise where most of their stuff is too big for me, and a lot of it is such crap I wouldn't want to wear it anyway. And Avenue is just CRAP. Craven, cheap, ugly, slutty-looking CRAP.
If I didn't have to run to another meeting I'd tell you how I really feel....
Seconds to both main threads here: plus-size segregation, especially of women, and cheaply made women's clothes in general, which has been a bugaboo of mine for years, both pre- and post-plus. Women have to spend a big premium over men, maybe 50 percent, maybe more, just to get a given level of fashioning and tailoring quality. It's downright demeaning, like women are toy people or something.
Now, combine that with the herculean effort it takes for a larger woman to find a good, businesslike look on a moderate budget. Every shopping trip, espcially when one has to seek out new stores, becomes a reminder of the social position to which one is supposed to relegate oneself. I have become convinced that these aspects of women's clothing market are being used by some folk as the next phase in social engineering, as submarkets get increasingly segregated as well as segmented. Mechanical, false Marias, to Madelaines, to Rachels, to … what?
Fuck fucking Old Navy. And the Gap. And having to choose between looking like a hoochie mama or a frump (I'm only 48, dammit).
I can afford Eileen Fischer or Ralph Lauren's plus line when it's "take 40% of the last marked down price". Fortunately, I can wear jeans to work.
There is in my mind, a rampant sexism and misogyny on the part of designers and marketing people in women's fashion.
Those hatreds manifest themselves in the following, cash-generating ways:
1.) Women's fashions are more prone to the vagaries of style—hemlines change drastically from year to year, Shoulder silhouettes, skirt geometry, waistline placement—all of it changes so quickly that to maintain a currency of look, (and not be deemed out-of-step) a woman has to be in the stores all the time—spending money. So, they keep women jumping constantly—“You can't wear that—that's out—you NEED THIS!” And that jerking 'em around keeps 'em in the stores 24-7/3-6-5, droppin' Benjamins.
2.) The shittier the quality of he clothes, the faster they'll wear out. The faster they wear out, the faster/more often you'll woman in the stores to replace 'em. As men don't shop—and oftentimes won't shop as often, our stuff is made to last a lot longer. Women can get decent quality clothes—but the price point compared to men's stuff is astronomically higher. I can go and get a top quality Joseph Abboud white dress shirt in town marked down to $29.00 from the list price of say...$59.00 any day of the week.
Let a woman go hunting for that holy grail—the simple white blouse—no adornment or crazy sleeves—and tell me where you can get that for less than $50.00? Those simple staple items—a nice pair of flat-front khakis, the white blouse, or a simple trenchcoat cost a fucking fortune for women. They don't want women buying those simple, many-years-lasting perennials. It goes against the marketing model that's been set up for woman's apparel, so they price the good, classic stuff right off the charts.
It's damn near criminal.
Goof.
“the faster/more often you'll get women in the stores to replace 'em.
That's a pain. Old Navy was the place I usually get my quarterly half dozen black chinos and half dozen polo shirts (I walk all the time so the pants shred in short order). Just have to get the stuff at Mervins.
Actually, it's a disappointment anyway, I'd much rather shop where they cater to larger women. I like ladies on the voluptuous side. Hell Marylin Monroe was a size 12-16! And now she couldn't even buy clothes at Old Navy!
Thanks for the link!
I swear, I really need to take sewing lessons and make my own damn clothes.
A couple minor quibbles (far more minor than the ones the women here have already voiced):
Plus sizes always means fat, not tall. I may have a software developer's belly, but at 250 pounds and 6'6" I'm not out of whack so far. Yet I end up buying clothes either online or at fancy-schmancy stores (it used to be an order of magnitude worse back when I lived in Spain).
Also it always crack me up when they tell you that XXX is out, and YYY is in. It just so happens that the store won't have any XXX and be up the brim with YYY. It's not like you can buy last year's fashions today (although you usually can a year and a half later during the sales).
Oh yeah and if you think being a plus size lady is tough, try being a Plus Petite.
Oh my god, don't get my wife started on that topic! Clothing makers believe that a curvy, short woman in her 40s must dress like a grandma.
Shops don't want that demographic? Well, I want that demographic -- or, at least, my one-person slice of it.
zuzu:
Interesting, one of the neater emerging technologies is a combination of sophisticated clothing CAD and high speed fab including clothing. This simultaneously allows for clothing that fits perfectly (Lands End at least pre-Sears was doing about 1/4 custom sizes) yet can be sewn up so fast that knockoffs can appear in the same week as a runway show.
If we do a merger of these two approaches combined with high quality cloth, it stands to reason that it should be possible for the clothing hackers at Craft to adapt new fashions to plus sizes on the fly and use better fabrics in the process (as in "The Man in the White Suit" level stuff). Probably derived from military technology (the services have to make uniforms in all sizes including maternity, and high speed fab would greatly reduce logistics hassles).
Of course this would put couture in the same situation as the music industry. But I for one welcome our new plus size clothing pirate overlords!
Amen to the preacher AND the choir!
Oh, boy. Sing it. LM gets the baritone part. Jen, I hear your fine soprano. Let me join in on alto.
I'm a 16 bottom, 18 top -- and that's MISSES, not women's. There are huge differences in the proportions between the two; misses' have a higher bust, smaller waist, and lower rise. The 18 top is only because I have a 38F chest (not even Lane Bryant carries my bra size, except online); I buy blouses that will button around the bosom, and have them cut down to fit the rest of me, which is considerably more petite.
Jesse and Jen: The sick thing about this is that I have better taste and more money for clothes than I've ever had in my life. And I can count the number of companies that want to take it from me on the fingers of one hand. I shop at J. Jill (for blazers and Wearever basics), Chico's (more great jackets, and their size 3 fits) and Nordstrom (which does buy its better Individualist stuff in 16-18 ranges). LB gets my lingerie business, and their red-fit jeans in a 14 are exactly perfect. (The rest of their stuff is just too tacky to handle -- they've gone way downhill in the past couple years.) And that's my whole trip to the mall.
The rest of it comes from catalogs. Great traffic-stopping spangled skirts from Soft Surroundings. The occasional sweater or skirt from Peruvian Connection (very spendy, but everything I've bought from them has been impeccable, timeless, and built for the long haul. Worth every damned penny.). Newport News and Spiegel for cheap trendy stuff; and their basic knit collections are a great value, too. Boots come from the fat-girl catalogs, because 20 years as a dancer left me with 16" calves, and most regular boots won't zip up around them.
When I have real bux, they go to high-end shoes and handbags -- no size restrictions there. Even if it means I'm only getting one or two new items a year, I buy the best I can afford, and wear it until it falls apart. (I'm still carrying Coach handbags I bought before my kids were born.) High-end, gee-whiz designer shoes, bags, scarves, and jewelry can make otherwise basic and inexpensive clothes really pop -- and they stay in style for years (and, eventually, come around again). I almost never toss this stuff. It's easy to store, and every year, something comes back in style and gets resurrected.
If I'm wearing something wayyy high-end (the Hermes Kachina scarf, the Luella Bartley tote), you can bet I got it on eBay for a third the retail price.
Since the pickings are so slim, I'm not afraid to throw money at the handful of things I do buy. Being curvy makes it easy to look sloppy. Things that are made of good fabric, well-cut and well-assembled, can do a lot to fix that. I also wear a LOT of knits, which flow comfortably over my curves, and look pulled-together. I may not be petite, but I still move like a dancer (unless the arthritis kicks in); and knits let me work that to good advantage.
Robin: I've had great luck with LB's microfiber undies -- own a dozen pair in all kinds of colors, some of them for 4+ years, and they're still good as new. Go check 'em out.)
LM: I actually like catalog shopping because the companies I deal with have very consistent sizing, and I generally know that it's going to fit. It takes a few go-rounds until you get it right (when in doubt, I buy two in different sizes, and send one back); but after that, I've come to rely on the reliability of the companies I trade with.
Paper: Hmm. That explains why I've been spending more time in Ann Taylor lately. Haven't bought anything yet, but the potential is there where it wasn't before.
Jen: The places that are aimed at over-30s, like J.Jill, do absolutely have a full range of sizes -- petite, plus, and misses up to 20. And it's not nearly so expensive as Eileen Fischer (some of which I think is beautiful, and some of which is simply sack-like).
Andrea: Ralph Lauren. I love his western stuff. My inner cowgirl feels like she's home to stay.
LM: The vagaries of style are savage indeed; but buying the Good Stuff offers at least some insurance. I build outfits out of basics, usually in dark colors -- but there's always one knock-your-eyes out statement piece (a killer jacket or sweater, usually) with the perfect jewelry to match. It looks creative, professional, and appropriate for the dignity of my years.
Skirt styles change almost yearly. Jackets and shoes are good for about five years. Pants styles can hang around for a decade or more, with small variations every couple years. Good scarves, art sweaters, overcoats, and handbags are forever. I invest accordingly.
Zuzu: Or else support your local dressmaker. Ask your dry cleaner if there's one around town. You can buy your own pattern and fabric, and have the thing made to custom-fit you by a pro. It's not cheap, but less than you'll pay for better sportswear in a department store -- and it's exactly what you want.
SteveK: What you're describing has been the Future of Clothing for the past 15 years or so. It's finally coming to pass in a few places; but gee, it's not happening nearly as fast as it needs to. But if Old Navy is part of a trend, then that might be the push it needs.
My best friend is a five-foot-two petite. She also used to be the head women's wear buyer for Federated -- I mean, the whole damned company, Macy's, Bloomie's, all of it. So when Bloomie's and Saks announced last year that they were both cutting out their petites departments, she was spitting nails.
Because if you cut petites, you've got a whole lot of Asian buyers -- who are often not shy about shelling out for good quality -- who no longer have a reason to come to your store. Not to mention the other parts of the country where there are other ethnic groups that run small. It's just stupid business.
But, recently, she's hearing that they've realized their mistake, and are bringing back petites. So maybe there's hope for women's departments, too. In the meantime, I'll be happy if they just buy their misses' stuff up to size 20. All the major department store mfrs (Liz, Jones, INC, etc.) make their stuff that big; it's the individual stores that simply choose not to order it.
But this is all dancing around the central problem, which is the fashion industry's stigma about real-sized women. They find us so disgusting that they won't even touch our money. When their revulsion is so strong that it completely overwhelms their business sense, you KNOW we're up against some very sick shit.
It kinda sucks being a small guy too. Size Small used to almost always be on the baggy side, but thanks to middle-age spread, I can occasionally find stuff that fits now.
Bummer that Old Navy are being such dicks. I'm long overdue for new clothes, and I've always been able to count on finding something at either the Gap or one of its sister stores.
What the hell, it's probably time for me to expand my shopping horizons anyway. If the Queer Eye guys were to come to my apartment, you can bet Carson would be tossing my shirts in the trash, while naming each year the Gap sold each one.
Apart from being nasty and shitty, which it certainly is, it seems like a bad business decision. Our average weight seems to keep going up, there is no shortage of women in that size range. Carrying comparable men's sizes but not women's is particularly shitty.
If I may quote Queen, "Fat bottom girls they make the rocking world go round". Our deer, departed friend Freddie Mercury may have been speaking theoretically, but that does not diminish the essential truth of his words.
I dunno. Maybe they're right. Maybe we're all just so dispirited and tired and plumb worn out from all the abuse heaped on us by fashion rags, stylists, advertisers, and retailers that push can't even come to shove anymore.
'Cause it sure is a waste of our time to try to find anything in the mall. You screw your self-image to the sticking place and knock yourself out for three hours on a Saturday afternoon trying to find just one pair of decent jeans, just one perfect white shirt, just one damned swimsuit that doesn't make you look like you just fell out of the dancing elephant scene in Fantasia, and come home tired and empty-handed and feeling so bad about yourself that it's all you can do to keep from crawling into a full pint of Ben & Jerry's to ease the pain.
You waste enough of these afternoons, and eventually you just decide to stay home in your dumpy old sweats and spend the money on the kids instead.
Next thing you know, your worried family and co-workers have reported you to "What Not To Wear." And you know it's true -- you haven't bought one new thing since shoulder pads went out.
There are a million stories in the Naked City -- but this one probably belongs to more like 50 million of us curvy gals, the majority of whom are in some stage of the process of Just Giving Up.
Me, I'm fighting on. Clothes are an art form for me, an important form of self-expression. Dressing the body I've earned is a challenge, but I'm up to it.
But that's me, and I'm out there on the end of the bell curve on this one. I can sure as shit understand why some people would flinch like a kicked dog at the thought of trying to shop for clothes.
Jen, I know you're not too fond of Talbots, but I live for it especially during the 2 giganto sales they have where I wind up being able to pick up microfiber pants for 14 bucks a pop. I know I know it's POLYESTER but I don't have to iron it and it looks fresh enough for someone like me and it comes in petite. Esp since I'm slooowly dispersing the baby weight and I don't want to spend a whole lot on new clothes (since I have perfectly acceptable very cute ones already) and I don't have time to troll for my clothes. Or rather my kid finds the whole process claustrophobic. So online it is.
I ignore stylists and rag mags I just can't take it. How many times does red or brown have to be the new black? or that menswear is the new trend? It's just ridiculous.
50. Admin assistant wanna be. Just try finding conservative clothes for any age outside of the consignment shops. The only reason I even have a wardrobe is because a much older lady lost some pounds. I've wandered through Macy's from time to time and no longer see anything that isn't for a 18-and under. Under in years, under in size. And the plus sizes: one rack in the back of the store with two sizes and two styles. That's it.
I read about that CAD deal. Can't wait to see if high tech would do to the fashion industry what it's done to the recording industry. Clothes to order? Hacked fashions? Clothes sharing like file sharing? Hmmmm.....
ladies and gentlemen, an exercise in one-up-womanship on this infuriating subject:
I.live.in.Tokyo.
this place makes America's 'thin youth good' obsession look like a walk in the park... I'm trying to look at it like boot camp for my self-esteem. but as a curved 49 yo, my trips back are bits of heaven, for places like J. Jill (and Eileen Fisher, that I aspire to when I can afford it), and second-hand clothing that's not cast-offs from either American teenagers or middle-aged women here, (whose taste veers towards lackluster purple, pleather pants, and the odd gold sequin, all in miniature sizes without the front or back end space that my endowments require...)
It's all part of what I call "The Chowing of America."
They don't want to sell food. They want to sell People Chow.
It's about less choices. Less things for them to think about. Less things for them to sell and less things for them to get stuck with.
They want us to move towards the silver unisuit. Only, of course, they will change it every year.
Terri in Tokyo, I hear you. I come over to the US once a year with empty suitcases simply for plus size clothing for friends and relatives. At least the US has choice. Here in the UK, quality clothing designed for plus sizes can cost the earth.
Yes to everything that everyone has said. Thank you, LM for posting this. (Fuck Old Navy.)
Mrs. Robinson: one of my interview suits is from a Canadian designer named Brian Bailey -- Bloomingdales used to stock his stuff in the late 90s. Is he still around?
THANK YOU to whomever pointed out J. Jill.
Let me also point everyone towards LandsEnd. Very consistent sizing and shaping.
Oh, and FUCK OLD NAVY.
Yay to big female buttage.
Old Navy can kiss my big, white, well-shaped, high-fat-content, WELL-PAID ass. No more money for you, assholes.
And your pants were always crap anyway.
Terri: It's unanimous. You win, hands down, by acclaim of the judges.
I have a hard enough time of it here in Vancouver, which is 25% ethnic Chinese. The malls stock accordingly. Hudson Bay Company doesn't buy anything over a 14 (the odd 16 if I'm lucky), and their women's department is unspeakable. I cannot buy lingerie in Canada at all: nobody, not even the high-end boutiques, carry my size.
So I do feel your pain, girlfriend. But I'm only a distant runner-up to you, because sweet salvation for me is just three hours down the road in Seattle (and that nasty stop at Customs on the way back, which adds a lot to the cost of declared goods).
I've seen your cute booty. I cannot imagine how you could even begin to dress it in Japan. You either sew; find a great dressmaker; or send for it from home.
Andrea: I don't think I've seen Brian Bailey here. But there's a great English company called Planet that does amazing knits that I'm grooving on lately. Similar price point as Eileen Fisher, with about three times the attitude.
Jen: You're welcome. Their Wearever stuff packs up small and wonderful, and a great foundation for all kinds of looks. Every damned thing I took to YKos was from there. Now, google:
Coldwater Creek (they've got a new pants collection that looks very promising)
Soft Surroundings (for amazing jackets and fun skirts)
Peruvian Connection (for enduringly perfect stuff that looks professional and expensive, but not like a corporate clone)
...and life will be good.
Mrs. R.,
Kan I haz a URL for Planet? Sounds RAD.
Coldwater Creek--on the catalog list but not totally in love with some of their stuff
Soft Surroundings--will grok it, thanks!
Peruvian Connection=$$$$$$$$$ and not my style (and Mom kicks it a lot, and my stepfather loved it on her, so I alas really can't wear it...)
Have you checked out LandsEnd? Really, give them a try for pants...
I am SO wanting to start up a company selling plus sizes.
Because, hello, it's like printing money.
I have to say, LB's new sizing system for their jeans is actually a good thing -- for once, I can buy jeans that fit my thighs and go all the way up to my crotch, but don't bag in the rise or the butt. Plus, they have trousers with the same fit, so I can actually get pants that fit my narrow waist and big thighs and butt.
Because I've sort of been resigned to having to buy pants that fit my thighs but bag at the crotch and fall down at the waist. I guess that's why God made belts, right?
I like the idea of computer-aided custom clothing. That could actually put the old, traditional bespoke suit within the reach of everyone, and the quality is likely to be WAY beter than anything you can find in a store.
Back when I was in the office machine business, I shelled out for half a dozen custom-tailored all-cotton white dress shirts. They cost twice as much as ready-made equivalents, but they lasted ten times longer. A turn in the wash with a good dose of bleach and they were as bright as the day they were made- and they stood up to solder splashes and solvents in a way no synthetic-blend ever could. The only downside was that I had to learn the right way to iron a shirt.
And they FIT! At that time my job involved hustling on foot 3-5 miles every day while carrying 30 to 50 pounds of tools, parts and techie miscellanea and I had the body that kind of constant exercise produces. Off-the-rack shirts that fit my neck and shoulders were all cut to accomodate a spare tire that I didn't have, and all that superfluous fabric made it impossible to look neat. But the custom shirts were JUST snug enough to look sharp and had JUST the right amount of room for comfort and easy movement.
It would be great if everyone could have their clothes fit them instead of having to fit themselves to the clothes.
Jen: Coldwater Creek is really for ladies another decade or two beyond us. My mom loves it, so there ya go. But, just often enough, I find something there that's pretty interesting. And I'm going to check out their new trouser collection -- several fits, many yummy colors, look like good-quality dress fabrics -- next time I go south.
Land's End? Really? I've never gotten those funny-fitting tapered, pleated chinos from the late '80s out of my mind. (Shudder. Shudder again.) It's probably unreasonable of me to toss out the catalogs, assuming they haven't changed their cut in all that time. (Although LL Bean hasn't.) OK, you made me look.
(And while we're ranting, am I the only one who's noticed that they're trying to bring back pleated pants? The Boomers will be having none of it, I guarantee you. If you've got hips or the barest shadow of a tummy, pleats will put on an instant 15 pounds. I'm fine with bringing waistbands back up to the natural waist, and love a good belt; but you will not be getting me into pleats again in this lifetime.)
Too bad you've got those bad associations with PC. My brother's got a place in Santa Fe, and I get down there every year or two. There's a PC outlet down there where I can load up on stuff at 60% off -- the savings almost pay for the damned plane ticket.
My best dress coat is their long baby alpaca standard in a nice sage. Gorgeous, light as a feather, and warm even in the dead of a Canadian winter. I got it for a song at the outlet, about 8 years ago. It's taken some hard wear (wadded up and used as a pillow; spread out and used as a blanket), but still looks like new. It will probably outlive me.
And this store shares a building with a Chico's outlet, right next door, just in case I've got a little room left in the suitcase or on the Visa card.
zuzu -- yes on LB's new jeans sizing. Like I said upthread, the red fit in size 14 is the best-fitting pair of jeans I've had on in a decade. Last time they went on sale, I bought three pair.
Their standard business trousers are also very nice for the money, and come in several fits as well. Evidently, a lot of companies are getting onto this notion of having three or four different cuts to suit various body shapes. That's a new trend I think we're all glad to see coming -- big girls in particular.
My eyes were opened many moons ago, when I spent a summer as a store detective at an LS Ayres (one of the many places sucked up by the Macy's maw...).
You wander, you watch a lot in this job. You also can easily get bored when no one is in the place. And in the early 1980s, after leather jackets, women's clothing was always the most likely item taken.
So when it was quiet, I'd read the price tags, pretending to buy something for a girlfriend, for my mom, etc. And man, did this stuff get discounted over not all that much time. And the original prices were just plain nuts to my male mind.
And, being someone that always asks the uncomfortable questions, I asked myself, "If they think they can still make a profit at a 60% discount, why not sell it cheaper sooner, to get it out the door faster?"
Before long, I asked those questions out loud, and I got a serious earful about it from the lady detectives, not to mention the salesgirls.
And thus was I enlightened.
Nowadays, with a 14-year-old daughter of my own, we walk the tightrope between clothes that fit well and clothes that are affordable.
But at least I know the game.
Mrs. R--almost forgot:
NEWPORT NEWS has non-frumpy, colored denim in plus sizes for as low as $19 a pair.
Yes, you read that right, jeans and colored denim (which I use as no-iron dress pants with a good blazer) for less than a Jackson.
Terri, I spent 12 years in Tokyo myself and know the problem. I was thin enough at that point that I could handle a Japanese size 13 provided they let down the skirt. Because I put on all the pounds below the waist, I still use all the jackets from the suits I bought, paired with black skirts from Chico's.
Shoes, thought, forget it. I'm an 11 AA, which is hard enough to find in the US. Trips back to the US always turned into shoe-shopping expeditions.
the nice thing about JJill and Eddie Bauer is that they not only have petite (and tall) plus sizes, you can return mail orders to a local store if they don't work out and save the shipping.
Also, eddiebaueroutlet.com is cheap as dirt (we're talking separates for the office down to under $20 and periodic promotional discounts from that) and the clothes are really well made.
Silhouettes fills the all-important (and hard to find if you're not a junior) flashy Strawberries-type kleenex clothes niche.
well for starts im only 16 n i weight 195po. and i HATE going shopping and my mother is like 100po. and she just dont uderstand how im so upset about this whole old navy tghing know were am i going 2 go shpping im cry right know like i love old navys classy clothing i dont know ? 2 do.
I hate the style and colors a lot of plus size clothing comes in. First of all I want to look cute at 38 not old and wearing something along the lines of a moo-moo. I have a flat stomach and very large breasts (Lane Bryant doesn't sell any size bra close to mine, not even online) I wear a 16 to 18 in pants and am 5'8" tall with small legs, I look sorta funny according to that description. If I find something that covers my chest it doesn't touch me at all from the nipples down. What the hell am I suppose to do??? Somebody got a suggestion, I have to order bras from Europe and they are not cheap.
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