Clinton supporters in Michigan are arguing that legislative leaders won't spend time working out those details in the first place without a preliminary nod of approval from the Obama camp -- leading Hillary spokesperson Phil Singer to allege that the Obama camp is "blocking the people of Michigan from being able to vote."
And here are the beginnings of the Clinton spin to explain away why they lost Michigan.
Sad.
If there IS an agreement, and if Obama shakes with her on it, he should count his fingers afterwards.
It has occurred to me that at this point, I have more respect for John McCain than I do for Clinton.
There's no fight like a family fight... but we have to remember that they still come round at Thanksgiving for pie. Senator Clinton is a cornered rat but she is still our rat. I just hope she gives up soon though i wouldn't bet on it.
If you have any connections to her superdelegates... work them very carefully and they will come our way. No politicians wants to be out there without support. No politician wants to be party to destroying the Party.
"No politician wants to be the party destroying the Party."
Hillary does.
I'm sorry, Amuseinc, but there's no denying it. The Clintons are perfectly willing to see the Dems lose if they don't snatch the nomination. That's their, er, "strategy" I suppose you can call it. True blue DLC to the core.
Even now, Billary seem able to veil this rather unpleasant fact because it just seems insane to rational people like yourself. But it's not really insanity per se so much as it's an untterly ruthless and uncaring personal ambition and selfishness, sprinkled with a liberal dosage of sheer spite. (Probably the only truly "liberal" thing about the pair.) They honestly do not care about anyone or anything other than themselves. I was originally wondering at the recklessness they're showing because they seemed to be cutting off any further runs at the White House with all these burned bridges...After all, there's always next time if they don't get the nod in 2008, right? But then I realized the obvious: They think they can just do the same come the next election after this one. No great mystery there.
Sadly enough.
Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair recently wrote a piece for Counterpunch that nicely sums up the situation and explains what's happening. Here's the link:
http://www.counterpunch.org/
cock...rn03052008.html
I think they're right and that we're currently seeing history repeat itself.
It has occurred to me that at this point, I have more respect for John McCain than I do for Clinton.
tanbark | 03.17.08 - 4:29 pm |
I haven't got that far yet...... but in a couple of weeks I wouldn't be surprised (his recent escapade in Iraq sent his numbers tumbling personally).
Otherwise, Obama, tread carefully when dealing with She Who Must Be Obeyed.
Amuseinc, if Clinton was part of my family I would lie about it.
About withdrawing from Iraq, which I would love to see, what about the time necessary to do it? Though I have searched I have been unable to find a NYT Week In Review piece I saw some months ago about just that.
It said that if some disaster occurred so that we had to get everyone out no matter what, it would take up to eight months. That's a hell for leather, leave everything behind evacuation.
Which we cannot do. Absent such a disaster, we can't just walk out of an unstable Iraq leaving gobs of quality military bases and equipment behind for the bad guys to just pick up. It takes time to pack up one of those attack helicopters for shipment home.
So. Clinton or Obama take office next year. They can't just order, "Evacuate!" without being totally irresponsible. At best they can order a controlled, measured withdrawal.
Such a withdrawal - reversible at any point! - would be a powerful diplomatic tool. Pity nobody's talking about that.
So are the Florida pols being truthful about the voting machines or are they trying to push the Florida delegation as is to help Hillary?
If the latter is the case they are counting on a hell of a longshot chance of even getting seated at all. This is just another dumb choice from a campaign that has made a number of them. It was never about having people's votes counted, it was all about having Hillary's votes counted. I'm sick and tired of these elected and DNC Dems and their powers over the state machines prejudicing the outcomes of elections.
Dean wont seat them.
Dean is having dinner with HC's big money funders this week. We'll see if Dean folds or not.
>>Dean is having dinner with HC's big money funders this week. We'll see if Dean folds or not.
GNBgroupie
GNBGroupie,
Hillary has gotten the DNC donors to try to blackmail Dean.
I'm telling you right now, I will do everything I can to make sure that Hillary doesn't win this election if some miracle or fraud gives her the nomination.
Trust me.
Amuseinc hillary may be yor rat. she was never mine.
think back 20 years or so folks. way back when the clintons started the third way, to remake the democratic party in their image, a new, "moderate" republican lite party...the yare still doign this. thye will willingly distroy your party to reach their objcetive.
If Hillary succeeds in steering the party to defeat in November, her political career will end. New York voters will stiff her when she runs for re-election. If, amazingly enough, we still manage to boost our Congressional majority, she'll be shoved in the same corner as Lieberman.
The Clintons and their ilk will be unceremoniously booted out of the party. Their money people, if they still have any money, won't save them. Nobody throws money to losers.
If only there were some way to make this plain.
I really don't mind it so much that Hillary's running out the clock, at least to Pennsylvania -- the party's nearly evenly split -- but trashing a fellow Democrat in front of Republicans has to stop now.
Bollox; just so. I think that Obama is well aware of her status as sacred cow. He can win this without stooping to the shit she's doing. And with any luck at all, he will.
Not surprised at Murtha's coming out for her. He's been a conservative on most issues, down the line. Lately, he's not even had much to say about the war, which had been his saving grace; that he would speak some truth about the clusterfuck.
I only hope that, pre-Pennsylvania, Edwards and Gore will stand up and be counted, for the candidate who will NOT serve as the GOP's lifeboat in this election.
Steve T.
If we HAD to get out, we could do it in less than a month.
We'd fly in PLANES FULL OF C4, torch everything behind us, and march the troops out of Iraq with B-52's far ahead and C-130U's close-in clearing a path in blood.
The Marines would bring up the rear, sowing salt, bringing our dead in duce and a halves as we marched out.
We've done it before; we can damn well do it again if need be. And if need be, there are plenty of us old fucks willing to strap on a helmet and flack jacket, take our pain meds (*cracks up*) and do our part as shooters or medics, to make sure the young kids get out safely. I still know how to hit where I aim, and blood doesn't bother me at all (in the moment.)
One month.
The smart withdrawal... a responsible withdrawal, will surely take considerably longer. And won't reply on a Dunkirk or a scorched earth march with C-130U's cutting a path through the mobs (the ones that the B-52's didn't kill.) But the option is available.
Troops obey. That's the beautiful thing about the military. If you tell them, "blow these up, then take your personal weapon and start marching this way, killing anyone who gets in your way," they will. All 150,000 of them. Just.like.that. It would then be a question of Air Force and Army logistics, to keep 150K troops on the move supplied with beans and bullets and especially water, and keep cutting a path through screaming mobs.
But we could do it.
In fact, I am CERTAIN there is a GOTH plan right now, probably called Operation Foreign Legion (due to the Legion's famous motto, "March or Die") which is built purely around the idea of blowing everything critical in place, and everyone marching to the nearest safe haven -- Kuwait, Turkey, Saudi Arabia.
The military at least, knows all about GOTH plans, and doesn't live in the neo-con Dick Cheney world of make-believe. There are three or four GOTH plans, plus 10 other major plans and 5 variations of each.
We'll get out okay. This isn't going to be Saigon. Unless Cheney attacks Iran (with nukes) in which case, the troops in Iraq may simply be rolled up, or at least, much tougher measures than have ever been used by PacCommand may be needed to keep them alive.
There is a big grassroots movement happening in Florida and Michigan to have the people fund a revote at http://floridamichiganrevote.com/ it is a new sit getting a lot of buzz. It is time for one voice one fight one win.
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