Time to go Hills. You ain't got to go home to Bill, but you got to get the hell mout of here.
Enough already.
What's that classic bar sign that they put out at 4 AM..."You don't have to go home but you can't stay here."
Amen, LM.
The pride is gone, and perhaps, a soul.
But, it's been a soul-less campaign for a while, since South Carolina.
Regarding Senator Clinton, for whom I voted , I have deeply regretted that vote every day now for months. I will probably regret that vote for the rest of my life. I can say that about very few of my votes, but in a year that began with hope, that hope has been deeply, deeply stained with the vitrol of calculated racism.
Here's what white feminists of a certain age and a certain class don't understand: It's not feminism if your candidate embraces racism. You're substituting your hopes and dreams for raw power and access.
Lie down with dogs? Get up with fleas.... sisters...
Interesting diary at kos that shows how few actual posters are astro-turfing pro Hillary web sites.
Clearly there are some well know progressive sites that are on the take.
When the truth washes out (and it always does) I expect some high profile bloggers reputations will come crashing down with Hillary's.
Fuck 'em all.
Yes, I think it's time for her to retire the field. Furl the colors and strike the tent; go up to Chappaqua and rest a while.
Her campaign was great, but her timing sucked balls.
Some of the silence around the blogosphere has been quite deafening.
thank you LM, I know so many here and elsewhere have thrown around the words cult, and syndrome etc. But behind it all I wanted one candidate, would have been happy with the other if I had to be... but now I am just in pain, depressed and bone weary tired. I still can't believe that it keeps on getting worse. It is just to sad. And awful to think that this is the choice she and her campaign have made to hang the future of our country on. it hasn't made me weep, but it has brought tears to my eyes and a sick feeling in my heart for the last two days. This feels awful. enough.
Poor Hillary; back in March she couldn't get straight-up on-message about:
"We have to count every bullet...err...ballot..."
without using the "ass----------" word; so yesterday she went the whole hog and made it plain that she's in it for the long haul, especially if it's Obama being hauled.
Tough Hillary.
Politically savvy Hillary.
Never-say-die Hillary.
(OK; she'll fucking well IMPLY it, if it's about her opponent...)
"They're victimizing me!" Hillary.
"Me'n-John-McCain-would-both-make-good-commanders-
in-chief" Hillary,(and unlike you-know-who, I doubt anyone would take a shot at US.)
I'm-staying-the-course-on-the-off-chance-that-the-
unspeakable-just-MIGHT-happen Hillary.
If the unspeakable DID happen, would she sit demurely, ostentatiously weeping for Obama, but inwardly, smiling that empty, fatuous, false-as-false-teeth smile, and wait for her "entitlement" to drop into her lap?
How long would the shock of the news last, before her "progressive" supporters who seemingly would continue that support if she started wearing a SchutzStaffel pantsuit and swastika armband at her campaign rallies, felt the thrill of "At last! Our inheritance!" course through them?
I keep turning the fact of her saying those things yesterday, around in my hand like some kind of tumor that's been resected from our political body, except, it has long since metastisized past any curing or remission.
"Jesus Christ! We've had THIS growing in us, all this time?"
She is pathetic.
But not pitiful; not to me. I have no pity for her, now. I just think the democratic party, and the superdelegates need to send her back to the Senate, and tell her to keep her mouth shut, until and unless the party that is about to become Barack Obama's and ours, tell her to say something.
I was 11 that Summer of 68. I grew up in a country still deeply grief-stricken at the Assassination in Dallas (which I can just barely remember.) As I recall, if there was one bit of comfort for people to cling to, it was the belief that Dallas had been a horrible, horrible anomaly.
Then within a few months, MLK gone and RFK gone. I was a pretty bright kid, enough to be terrified with the fear that this was just how it was going to be from now on. Oh, do I remember how scared I was. My fears were correct, of course. The assasinations didn't continue, but only because that summer helped jump-start a mania for security that has brought us to the National Security State we live in, something that would horrify every previous generation of Americans.
For Hillary to dredge up that fear to try and save herself is disgusting. Like many, when this race first settled down to Clinton v. Obama, I felt we had two great candidates and I would happily vote for whoever came out the winner.
I don't feel that way any more.
Over at FireDogLake, finally, Eli cranked up a decent thread about Hillary so graciously extending her campaign just in case there should be a sudden vacancy atop the leader-board.
Nothing at Digby's.
Except the "Governator" thread, which, gravitational pull more-or-less turned into a thread about Hillary's selfless magnanimity.
If the repubs gin up any more "Was that a shot, or Obama hitting the ground?" jokes, I guess we won't be hearing too much about them at Hullabaloo.
Not you people! NOT YOU PEOPLE!I just want to scream. The hatred on AMERICAblog I try to ignore; the craziness at DKos, I can take and leave. But when the group(pun intended)I've learned to rely on for level headed and even handed postings starts running off the rails, what the hell am I supposed to do? It's getting to the point where I'm running out of blogs to read. You want her out? Fine. But the sheer raw hatred is like a constant chorus of fingernails against chalkboard, and I wish to the Gods it would stop.
Oh, and for the record I remember both assasinations quite clearly. 
Ghostcatbce and others of such a mind:
May I recommend:
noquarterusa.net
anglachelg.blogspot.com
hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com
riverdaughter.wordpress.com
nobloodforhubris.blogspot.com
I'm finding them quite congenial.
Thank you.
I too have a terrible feeling of unease every time I watch Senator Obama speaking live. It puts an unnecessary, but unavoidable pall on his brilliance.
Particularly in large gatherings like Portland. The depth of feeling he inspires in me is shadowed by a terror and remembrance of things past.
I went to see him yesterday in Fort Lauderdale and I was glad to see him move about on the stage with a hand-held mic. Small comfort, but some.
I am also old enough to remember Medger, Malcolm, Martin and Fred Hampton - not to mention the countless others cut down when they dared to stand up.
Thanks again for your thoughtful words, and I know Steve is nodding at them as well, smiling that big old smile of his.
Peace,
Nick in Florida
IBW:
You're pimping no quarter?
Seriously?
Seriously?!
This actually saddens me.
I just popped over to 'No Quarter', and holy hell, they've got an item about how terrible it is that a major Kenyan opposition leader claims to be Obama's cousin. I suppose that's typical for the current tenor of pro-HRC blogs, however.
I just want the hatred to stop. What is the point of it? It's not good for the hater never mind the hated. Because, even though I am a Canadian woman, I find all this hatred directed at a woman, deeply, deeply offensive. And so uncalled for.
Thanks for your concern.
Talking point #3 "Women are Watching"
Women are taking note of elected officials who attack Hillary Clinton using sexist and crude remarks, and other elected officials who condone such remarks with silence.
Women will publicly call out those individuals and groups who denigrate all women when they use sexism to demean the integrity and character of Hillary Clinton.
Drifting off into creepy as fuck land.
Ghostcatbce - if you're seriously suggesting that the outrage over someone who is supposed to be a progressive - supposed to be *on our side* - raise the spectre of assassination, regardless of the actual intent, is down to the gender of the person who raised it then...
... I have no words.
Her little spiel in SD has a very 'Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?' ring to it.
“Desperation is the flashing, trembling hand that snatches away the veil of false propriety.”
I'm sure this is merely an embarrassing failure of my own imagination, but I'm trying to get through that...is the hand flashing because it's bright or shining, or is it flashing because it's real quick? If it's real quick, wouldn't it be hard to see it trembling? I think the veil is made of false propriety (its warp could be conformity and its woof fear, I suppose), and not veiling it. After all, a false propriety would be for showing, not concealing, mustn't put thy false propriety under a bushel the good book says...
ghostcatbce - You can end it. I'm sorry for you and all the hillary heads. Really I am. Its a horrible reality to have to face. Face it you must.
But when the group(pun intended)I've learned to rely on for level headed and even handed postings starts running off the rails, what the hell am I supposed to do? It's getting to the point where I'm running out of blogs to read. You want her out? Fine.
The gnb IS being LEVEL HEADED. I think your sense of what that is has been skewed. They are firmly on the rails. Firmly.
If you and IBW think for a moment this is not sad for them or anyone else then you don't get it. It is incredibly sad. Not for HIllary, but for every single American. Not because they feel sorry for Hillary, but because they feel sorry for her behavior and her very own words. No one wanted this to be about gender or race or ....... even thought it COULD be about what she's made it about yesterday. She took us there. All of us hijacked in her insane craven desire. Please stop helping her, because really you're only enabling her in her dysfunction. You want it to stop? Then stop it.
~ - They can "watch" all they want to. We're kinda used to being "watched".
LM - Great post. She is done. Now it just has to be over.
Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean have to tell the supers to act now. Everyone can vote and be counted. Even if she got 100% of the remaining pledged delegates, she can't pass Obama so there's no reason to wait any longer. Tomorrow is fine. Waiting is not an option.
OK, we've all had our little say about Hiilary Dearest's latest slobbering, but so what, I've been sick of her for months now, like since Super Tuesday.
Here's my outrage angle: just what the hell is needed for the Democratic Party brass to pull the rug out from under her? The Party is rapidly losing any small amount of respect the public may have for it. The Party doesn't deserve to put together a slate for any offices at all if this is the way they allow their candidates to act. The Po' Hillary is bonkers. Yank her.
Now.
You are missing the point. I am not a "HilaryHead" thank you so much. Being a Canadian I can't vote in either the primaries or the general election. Nor do I condone some of her very questionable behaviour. It is the sheer amount of hatred being aimed at her that I find so disturbing.
Put it this way: After reading some of the so-called progressive blogs I usually read I get the distinct feeling that IF SHE WERE THE ONE TO GET SHOT, some people might actually celebrate. It is not a pleasant feeling. And don't think I'm exaggerating, or the victim of my own imagination. Because if you don't think that it could happen, you haven't been paying attention.
LM--I'm new to NQ. Has it done something nasty I don't know about? 
I've had bad dreams too many times
To think that they don't mean much anymore
And fine times have gone and left my sad home
And the friends who once cared just walk out my door
But love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again
I've been alone too many nights
To think that you could come back again
I've heard you talk
She's crazy to stay
But this love hurt's me so
I don't care what you say
But love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again
If I could buy your love
Then I'd surely try my friend
And if I could pray
My prayers would never end
But if you want me to beg
I'll fall down on my knees
And ask you to come back
I'd be pleading for you to come back
I'd beg for you to come back to me
Love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one but myself to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again
Yes I'd give anything to see you again
eric kaz & libby titus.
she wants to be president so bad it's fucked her all up inside. she thought it was hers goddammit. hers for the taking, like george clooney finished micheal clayton was made room on the mantle for another oscar. . .
ambition, like love, has no pride. ask mcCain. . .he knows this fucking song too.
“NQ. Has it done something nasty I don't know about?”
You know, I don't do inter-blog pissing matches, so I'll just use the old Louis Armstrong quote when someone asked him what was Jazz:
“Man, if you gotta ask, you'll never know.”
Senator Clinton: Done Like Dinner. It's Over. She knows it. You can see it in her eyes. That's all, folks.
The Air of Entitlement always came off her like a bad smell, which is the only reason I can think of why an person who's clearly smarter than most as consistently made one sloppy, utterly stupid & completely unnecessary mistake after the next after the next after the next. & now we can add the odours of desperation & despair as well.
Jesus H. Christ, someone crack open a window.
ghostcatbce:
....Nor do I condone some of her very questionable behaviour. It is the sheer amount of hatred being aimed at her that I find so disturbing.
Maybe hatred has been aimed at her, but I don't see that here. When there is no justification for the emotion, it is hatred. When there is, it is anger. Maybe even righteous anger.
Sen. Clinton has given heaps of justification for being angry at her, angry at the way she's run her campaign. GNB has been discussing all those justifications, with links so you can check their honesty.
There is no hatred here. GNB has given her every fair chance. She has earned the anger here step by deliberate step.
ghostcatbce - I mistook you for a hillary supporter. Sorry. *blush*
I don't think you see anyone here who would be anything less than horrified, regardless of who they support, if the A word use/intent was reversed. No one would cheer. I don't believe that for a minute.
What you see is justifiable anger. Pure anger. Before anyone voted, the fake polls and media machine had her "ahead". Then people voted. Then she was not ahead. After the first results came in she went into some mode of desperation and it has spirialed downward since then. We've just been through the hell of 8 years of someone, many someones, completely disconnected from reality. Someones who manufacture reality to get what they want. For their personal gain. So, this same behavior from one of our own, regardless of if you agree with their positions on the real issues, this same disconnect, denial of reality, manufacturing of reality, is just too much. And worse, it is over. Has been over and still we cannot move forward. So, anger.
All manner of this anger has been swallowed over and over to afford this candidate the opportunity to exit gracefully. To let everyone vote in some show of support for the new 50 state strategy. Which is great, except it's been over. When something is over, its over. So this little pretend game so everyone can make believe their vote can change the lead ensued. It can't. To me that's not fair, but hey, I'm not in charge of this dog and pony show. The campaigns should have continued with clinton forwarding the Democratic message, not her personal Fantasy Election game. Then (insert LM's post here) happened and is the last straw..... and you get ANGER. Rightfully so.
We still have a large segment of self-identifying Democrats who, because of this sick pretending game, have to come to reality. And that is sad.... and kinda mean to perpetuate it any further.
Bottom line: No one wants anyone to be in danger or harmed, and when one wishes that upon another..... who can stand by and be silent. I'm more concerned about the people who are not angry about it.
Hope that helps.
"I get the distinct feeling that IF SHE WERE THE ONE TO GET SHOT, some people might actually celebrate."
I don't get that AT ALL from the blogs. I really don't. As angry as I am at her and her campaign staff, as much as I think she is hurting her party, her country... as much as she has broken my poor naive progressive heart... I would NEVER wish that on anyone. Would Never condone it. and frankly I don't see anyone else here thinking, writing or implying that at all.
offended at the implication.
And I won't let anyone make me feel bad about being angry about this. I am angry. It was stupid and hurtful and I have a right to say so, as a voter, as a woman, as a progressive, as a democrat and as an american.
enough.
Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries. I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.
Just for the record, on Dec. 6th, 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed fourteen women at École Polytechnique in Montreal for the crime of being "feminists".
Until recently i never said she should get out. I think if she were running a positive, issues based campaign myself and many others would be fine with her still running... but again, this has NOTHING to do with gender. She has misspoken/ lied (bosnia) / and trashed her own good name and she is hurting the party. How does it matter or make any difference to this incident that Women have been shot too.
How is that even a part of this discussion.
One of the points Keith Olbermann made was that no one should be talking this way, that she makes the race more dangerous for herself too. We just don't need to be talking assassinations in the middle of this campaign. It was dumb, and worse than that, seemed calculated. I don't know what she thought the reaction would be, but she is finding out now.
aren't you tired of it? I am.
ghostcatbe, you've mentioned you are Canadian. You don't understand the because your nation, as far as I know, has never seen a prominent, promising politician cut down in a hail of bullets. During the 1960's-1980's America had some of its best and brightest killed for daring to dream a better America by folks who hated the changes and hated the social and racial integration that came with those changes.
Imagine being a schoolkid in November 1963, and suddenly hearing that a charismatic, handsome President who talked about going to the moon, helped foster hope and courage was suddenly gunned down and his killer later was too. Watching his widow and baby boy standing at his coffin, listening to muffled drums.You realize, too, that there was a lot of hatred directed at him in that city. Why? For daring to actually contemplate racial integration and siding with Martin Luther King. People feared for his life going to Dallas because of it
No trial, but a quick inquiry that left people empty of meaning and answers. Five years later, his brother, opposing the Vietnam War, supporting the hopeful changes of the Sixties, gets gunned down at the height of his success. Again, lost hope, joy, potential.
Inbetween: Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, and many others who died for civil rights. Then came George Wallace. Later on, there was the attempt on Ford, the attempt on Reagan, John Lennon. Each time you find yourself glued to the radio, hoping against hope that the Grim Reaper will spare this person to continue to live a life of hope and promise, that for once they stick around to see the fruits of what they have done.
So anyone going there-regardless of gender or politics-is dancing on a lot of graves, spitting in the veilcovered faces of a lot of widows. And a lot of other people who still remember those terrible days of anguish. Hillary has done a full choreography on those graves, and should be called out fully on her selfish, arrogant, insensitive, racist and totally nasty remarks.
Nuff said. Going back to the Sixties:
there's "Too many fish in the sea". Let someone else more worthy and sane be the first woman to make it the Oval Office. Despite her manipulate and abusive act, there are plenty of women who are fully qualified to run, and nobody is stopping them from running. You'll see them behind Obama, supporting him at the convention.
“Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries. I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.”
Senator Clinton has every right to run her campaign as long as she wants, and people in the blogosphere who have been saying “get out” (I've been hearing much more “It's over.” than “Get out.”) are just that—people in the blogosphere, just one level of opinion. Like pundits, analysts and fellow politicos. She and her campaign will continue to operate based on either running out of money, support or the confidence of influential people close to her.
I have NEVER CALLED FOR HER TO BACK OUT. What I have assumed is that the typical writing on the wall endemic to many campaigns would become evident (as it did to Paul Tsongas in his battle against Bill Clinton when for the sake of the party he withdrew.) Barring that, I banked—stupidly in retrospect—that the ending of this campaign would be handled with a modicum of class.
But post West Virginia, and “Hard-working people. Whites.”, and this inane, incendiary word salad (in the context of her and Terry McAuliffe's hopeful “We're in it to the end because anything can happen”)—shit has gone beyond the pale.
I'm fatigued with this “fatigue” excuse, and by God, I've cut her slack and used it myself in defending her goofs. I've defended her against a supremely bullshitteous charge of racism by Ann Althouse. I've defended her against Chris Matthews' sexism, and Randi Rhodes odious spew.
Were she the delegate leader and presumptive nominee, she'd damn sure have my vote, as I would expect she would have many of ours instead of sitting back and allowing the lunatic and dangerously flawed John McCain a free ride into 1600 Penn.
It was Charlie Murphy on “Chappelle's Show” who brandished the line about Rick James being a “habitual line stepper”, and Sen. Clinton has morphed into that here at the end. I think I and everyone here has been eminently fair to Ms. Clinton—maybe to a fault. But at the end of the game, she has committed “flagrant fouls”. Cheap shots borne of frustration with the obvious outcome. And I'll be damned if I'm NOT gonna make the calls. In an NBA game, they'd “run” the player—which means toss him from the game.
As I'm just a dude on a blog, I don't have the power to toss her anywhere. But I will damn sure call out the cheap shots and flagrants designed to simply injure—and that's what these are. I'm mad as hell at the way this primary season is ending. And trust me, as a NYer, I'm not alone in my anger at my senator over these shenanigans. This isn't hate...it's anger over wrongs being done. A huge difference. The hate is in my hatred of being this angry over them. but that's where I am.
And even in my anger, I've been fair. Look at my post on WV and its voting. Read my posts during this season. No usage of RW memes, no name-calling or dredging up the sordid shit from the White House years to smear her.
We've all tried to be fair to the senator, it's just that at the end, she is making it extremely difficult for people to be kind. And I'm mad about that, too. 
Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries. I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.
Just for the record, on Dec. 6th, 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed fourteen women at �cole Polytechnique in Montreal for the crime of being "feminists".
What is this?
Why are you invoking gender?
What is wrong with you?
Where does this sense of entitlement come from?
It's more comforting to me if I just skim past this stuff and assume that the person who posts it is just trolling, but I'm actually worried that this isn't the case.
Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries. I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.
Just for the record, on Dec. 6th, 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed fourteen women at �cole Polytechnique in Montreal for the crime of being "feminists".
What is this?
Why are you invoking gender?
What is wrong with you?
Where does this sense of entitlement come from?
It's more comforting to me if I just skim past this stuff and assume that the person who posts it is just trolling, but I'm actually worried that this isn't the case.
I need a drink.
WTF.
Sorry for the doublepost. I refreshed like 3 or 4 times and the first one wasn't showing up, so I tried again.
It's just all so Anita Hill. Oh well, I wish for the next twenty years, no woman, of any political party, will run for president of the United States.
I'm choosing not to read the comments above because they will be larded through with CDS and the gleeful excuse to explain why THIS WOMAN is so awful. I'll miss all the other thoughtful folks, but that's the terrain in progressive blog comments these days -- the woman-hate (concealed as something else, theoretically) demands caution from even a resilient reader.
I'm coming to comment and say: I think this was exhaustion and yes, desperation, allowing a slip which revealed what was underneath. And while I have human compassion for even the most fucked-up fucker who was raised with lies and hasn't managed to rid her/his head of them -- and while I have compassion for those of us who lost too goddamned many of our generation's essential leaders to assassination and conservative destruction, so we are walking cynics whose despair leaks through in ugly ways --
still
this shows precisely where she is damaged. Where she would go astray as a leader. It's not about race, specifically, except that in any white person, our despair and stupidity tends to congegrate at the fence between "us" and "you others", so it becomes racism no matter our intention. But, in the end, it's about the limits on her vision.
Limits that would cause further damage.
I say this in the face of those of you who will take it as proof that she should never have run, should never lead anything, who will find fault with any woman who doesn't choose the Nancy Reagan/Michelle Obama role of controlling from the background. I can't help how you'll twist my words.
But this mistake does it for me.
I never was stumping for her to be Veep. I want a VP who is dramatically different from the Prez, and the fact is, Clinton and Obama are much more alike than they are different far too many respects for me. (Yes, he has limits just as damaging as hers -- I'm a lesbian, he's thrown my people under the bus; I want someone who won't have to be reminded not to vote for the likes of Roberts as Chief Justice; I want someone who isn't feeling under siege to prove he is Christian/pro-business/not a fag about the war. I want what is not available this go-round.)
So, I say, Clinton not as VP either. If he picks her, I won't be surprised, because he is a politician rather than a leader or a statesperson, he's much like Bill was. He'll moderate us out of the current crisis, with luck. His lack of experience and insularity, when they start manifesting themselves in his Presidential decisions, will jolt his acolytes, who will turn on him (and we'll have ODS then), but maybe we can find some real vision after that. He IS the next step, at this point.
But Clinton is damaged. She's had to walk past slavering Dobermans for too long without adequate restoration or hope, and her internal landscape has room to include assassination. That's simply not all right. Not in a leader.
As far as choice of a VP, I wish Obama would carve out room for a woman (Sibelius, for instance), but he won't. He doesn't actually defend the rights of women, per se, not in any kind of automatic way. We are sweeties or mamas to him. He'll settle on another white man. Thought not Edwards, because Edwards looks far too good in contrast.
Edwards would have spoken out against the attack dogs chasing Hillary months ago.
Still, that's no excuse. She's in public life, and those of us with experience know how much hate and venom there is against women. Exhaustion and desperation are not excuse.
Her comment was not intentional, as the Republicans are, but it was also not a real "misspeak". No passes here. Not from me.
“But Clinton is damaged. She's had to walk past slavering Dobermans for too long without adequate restoration or hope...”
Dead. Fucking. On.
That for me is the saddest thing. That I don't think she's some evil person—just a decent person who pressure and hatred has broken in an internal way that she can no longer hide.
Thank you, Maggie.
Anita Hill would have slapped you. She knows the difference in her bones. As nasty and boneheaded misogyny can be, there is a organized, violent element that racism has that makes misogyny look far tamer. The Mark Lapines are solitary idiots like the kids at Columbine, despised by everyone. Even those who share a few of their views kick them to the curb.
There is/was no feminist/suffragette opposition that was the equivalent to the KKK and the Citizens Councils and the American Nazis, groups that live to avenge their bitterness with violence, The resistance to women's votes was like a tea party compared to the racists who took out their opposition with murder, rape, and bombing.
Just for the record, on Dec. 6th, 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed fourteen women at École Polytechnique in Montreal for the crime of being "feminists".
& what on earth does that have to do w/ this discussion? Your shallow, petty attempts to use a horrible, heartbreaking ugliness as a cudgel IN ORDER TO FORCE US TO MAKE EVERYTHING GO YOUR WAY is precisely the kind of emotional blackmailing that is at the core of Senator Clinton's totally irresponsible, stupid & hateful remarks & what has set my teeth on edge whenever I've heard her speak since South Carolina: it reeks of the worst forms of Entitlement & Self-Absorption, which in turn is emphasized & amplified by the obnoxiously High-Handed, Self-Important Snot-Nosed Kiss-My-Ring-Already-You-Peasants Patronizing, Dismissive & Condescending Attitude she & her supporters turn up the volume under ('cuz it goes up to 11, see?) whenever her gaspingly obvious flaws & unfitness for the role she aspires to attain/have delivered to her gift-wrapped are pointed out by the more observant & even-handed among us, LM more so than most.
I'm not arguing for a second that Senator Clinton hasn't had to deal with a ton of bullshit from the Party Rank-&-File, GOPers, Enforcers-In-Skirts & The Chattering Classes strictly because she's a figure of Female Authority, & the misogyny & sexism on display has made my skin crawl & my stomach churn, especially when I read some of the articles & comment threads on Progressive blogs whose Operators are smart enough that they ought to fucking know better yet still post misog-shit anyway (I'm looking at YOU, TRex). What has been making the Clinton campaign such a painful slow-motion trainwreck is the unending series of stupid mistakes coming from a smart person, the utterly callous & bone-headed "Assassination" remark being the latest in a long line of stupid. Even more so, considering that she's done it twice already.
This is Senator Clinton's "Macaca Moment". No. Even more accurately, this is Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's "Trent Lott Moment": a moment where a public figure opens their chops to speak & sticks both feet & a couple of extra limbs in their mouth, making complete & utter fools of themselves on camera with the tape recorders rolling, & in the process revealing, with their own words & deeds, what the most clear-eyed & clear-headed of their critics have been consistently pointing out about them the whole time.
I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.
Oh, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH Your Most Supreme Royal Eminence. May we humble peasants be granted the sublime honour to kiss your Rose-Scented butthole? Or must we content ourselves with the fact that Your Grace deigned to comment on our simple thread? Take your time while you're on board the HMS Ghostcatbce.
FYI, I was living in Montreal when the L'École Polytechnique ugliness went down. I remember walking through an entire city of shell-shocked people, all of them wondering if someone they new had been killed, myself among them. You selfish, callow attempts to turn that tragedy into a lever to defend the indefensible is a gob of spit in the eye of both the young women who didn't have to die & the families who are still living with their absence. Shame On You.
Enjoy this from a pro-Clinton blog.
I have very, very bad feelings about Obama. His Muslim heritage scares me very much. His lack of respect for the flag or pledge of allegiance bothers me too. I know I have read somewhere they talk of a dark skinned man…someone out of Africa, that everyone will think is a good man, bringing peace, etc, but that is when you see his true colors and they are evil!! Is this man Obama? I do not know, and maybe I am just being superstitios, but he scares me. John Kerry endorsing him…well, that is one more little red flag. John Kerry being in Skull & Bones….
Heh. This stupidity is encouraged.
test halo scan eating comments?>
CeeHussein, I wonder, are these even Democrats? As Hillary began circling the drain, angering even some Moderate Democrats, I wonder if Republican trolls haven't taken their places, fanning the flames a bit.We will see, shortly after she concedes or the Party decides to go ahead without her.
Well said, Smartpatrol.
I've been thinking about this whole scenario, and why it felt so familiar to me. I then remembered two things: a manipulative ex-friend, and the alcoholics in my family. Indeed, this scenario feels so much like what I went to Al-Anon for. I've seen it all before. The guilt trips, the victim trip taken when somebody finally blows up and calls them out on their many screwups and nasty attitude.The blithe assumption that no matter how bad the behavior or insulting the statements, all will be forgiven and forgotten.The hysterics once a person decides to move on with their life with someone saner. The nasty ex-friend who spoke liberal platitudes and then chose helpers who were racial and class inferiors, exploited their longings to get free help, and got pissed when they walked out. I later heard about the drinking too about that person.
Oh, by the way, the people around them walk on eggshells trying to avoid the very blowup that will happen anyway. Maybe the Crown Royal was more than a stunt?
I won't really go there, but I do fear for Hillary sanity/sobriety once its' over and nobody needs to pay attention to her anymore. It can get ugly when they are ignored.
can we start ignoring hillary form here on out...can we treat hillary trolls like the right wing trolls they are.
Sure we can. Unfortunately we should be prepared for more stuff until Obama reaches 2025. Maybe beyond. If my surmise is correct, we can expect real histrionics and operataic behavior. Think 3 year old kicking tantrum, knocking over vases and screaming.
Thank god Obama is an adult.
In the blogosphere at large, it is NOT fucking sexism. No way, no how. It's not even personal. Everything is a reaction to something that the Clinton campaign has said or done. EVERYTHING.
Does the anger come OUT as sexist remarks? Sometimes. Yes. But it's not the roots.
Before Bill Clinton's....unfortunate remarks in South Carolina, most people were looking forward to an extended debate on the issues, in order to promote Brand Democrat. It was VERY positive. VERY. But Clinton's remarks, well, people got pissed. They were very dismissive.
Then video of comments she made denegrating the Dirty Fucking Hippies, so to speak came out, and how some states just didn't matter and to be honest, on sites such as DKos, OpenLeft, whatever, the whole Obama v. Hillary thing is suddenly a new chapter in the netroots vs. DLC war that's been going on forever.
THAT is where the knives came out.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...3532/862/
477146
My diary from March 11th explaining it.
It's the orthodoxy of the netroots. And you know something? It's a damn GOOD one. When she fights against that, why the fuck be surprised if people get upset about it? WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN?!?!
In any case, the reality is that ANY positive rationale for her nomination has long since gone. Otherwise she'd be pushing it. It's strictly a negative campaign at this point. As I said in the other thread, it's pathetic. You don't compete in order to hope the other person has some tragedy. You just don't do that. It's insulting to them, and even worse, it's insulting to you.
It's pathetic, to be honest.
Carol we will be deailing with clinton and her hard core supporters well past 2025 delegates...my guess is that they wilol not vanish until obama starts his second term in 2012
my pervious comment will probably get uneaten at some point...
the idea that hateing hillary means you hate all women is insane. I hate bush, do i hate all men? I hate cucombers, do i hate all vegtables?
its not my fault you thaugh hillary some how represents all women...she dosn't. moreover if a clinton is your stadnared barer you have some serious issues to deal with.
face it hillary lost because she ran a republican campaign...she ran a republican campaign because she is a republican who dosen't have the guts to put the R after her name. she gose on the smae pile as zell, and liberman, and the rest of hte dlc
Ghostcat,
I will freely admit (to my shame) that I know only a bit about Canadian history and politics (although I'm catching up fast). I recall watching the news about the Montreal shootings in 1989, and wondering how it could be. "Canada? I thought they were saner than we were ..."
As to hatred for Clinton or anyone else, I find it very hard to hate anyone. Hatred, in my opinion, requires the same emotional investment and personal commitment as love, and I can't afford to do that with just everyone.
However (I hate the word; it lands with a resounding splat into the conversation) even if she picks up the last three races, she will very likely not reach the magic number 2025. A lot hinges on how the DNC will settle the Floriduh/Michigan matter (I'm from FL, so I can call it that). The probabilities fall in Obama's direction regarding the nomination.
(I wrote this on Friday before LM posted, so forgive any repetition of what he says. I'm posting it as is, as it came to me. I'm that pissed off)
Nice to see she's willing to apologize for crossing the line (as long as its in her own self interest). I guess enabling Bush in Iraq doesn't count as crossing the line.
Speaking of that, I swear it's as if Hillary watched Bush hold onto power despite sinking lower and lower and thought: "hey, that might work for me!" Ego-driven insanity of the highest order. If she thinks this is going to vanish into the weekend news hole, she has another fucking think coming.
Olbermann hit it on the nose in his commentary: political assassination is anathema to the American ideal of regular and peaceful transfers of power. For a major politician to say this is like a Cardinal suddenly lifting his robe at High Mass at St Peter's and taking a whiz in the Holy Water basin.
This isn't the Mirror Universe. A responsible American politician doesn't fucking talk about assassination, if only for her own safety. A responsible American politician doesn't even fucking allude to it. Assassination is the concern of the Secret Service, not the fucking candidates.
Now I've known what kind of politician Hillary is since she started with the videogames. And each new Rovian appeal to the politics of fear and the worst in American racism from her or her surrogates has borne that assessment out. I'm tired of explaining her sense of entitlement and need to pander, only to be told I'm a misogynist or a closet McCain supporter or an Obama cultist.
So I'll ask her few remaining supporters on this site: when are you going to stop making excuses for Hillary? Until you do, you're no better than what remains of the Bush base.
And before you respond, I'd suggest you think about the people who read this site: educated progressives and liberals, many of whom have worked on political campaigns or in academia or in the media; people who understand that Hillary is not the kind of person who makes the same "slip" over and over again; people who've spent the last 8 years parsing Bush's dog-whistles and dissecting his apologists' crap to the point where we can detect this Boomer BS in our sleep.
Then take another momement and watch or read Olbermann's comment. Especially this part, addressed to YOUR candidate:
"And despite your now traditional position of the offended victim, the nation has forgiven you.
We have forgiven you your insistence that there have been widespread calls for you to end your campaign, when such calls had been few. We have forgiven you your misspeaking about Martin Luther King's relative importance to the Civil Rights movement.
We have forgiven you your misspeaking about your under-fire landing in Bosnia.
We have forgiven you insisting Michigan's vote wouldn't count and then claiming those who would not count it were Un-Democratic.
We have forgiven you pledging to not campaign in Florida and thus disenfranchise voters there, and then claim those who stuck to those rules were as wrong as those who defended slavery or denied women the vote.
We have forgiven you the photos of Osama Bin Laden in an anti-Obama ad...
We have forgiven you fawning over the fairness of Fox News while they were still calling you a murderer.
We have forgiven you accepting Richard Mellon Scaife's endorsement and then laughing as you described his "deathbed conversion."
We have forgiven you quoting the electoral predictions of Boss Karl Rove.
We have forgiven you the 3 a.m. Phone Call commercial.
We have forgiven you President Clinton's disparaging comparison of the Obama candidacy to Jesse Jackson's.
We have forgiven you Geraldine Ferraro's national radio interview suggesting Obama would not still be in the race had he been a white man.
We have forgiven you the dozen changing metrics and the endless self-contradictions of your insistence that your nomination is mathematically probable rather than a statistical impossibility.
We have forgiven you your declaration of some primary states as counting and some as not.
We have forgiven you exploiting Jeremiah Wright in front of the editorial board of the lunatic-fringe Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.
We have forgiven you exploiting William Ayers in front of the debate on ABC.
We have forgiven you for boasting of your "support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans"...
We have even forgiven you repeatedly praising Senator McCain at Senator Obama's expense, and your own expense, and the Democratic ticket's expense.
But Senator, we cannot forgive you this."
I'd add the Clinton surrogate organization WVWV's disenfranchisement attempts and trying to use Drudge to spread the photo of Obama in African (i.e "Muslim") clothes. I'd also mention her lack of apology for Iraq and her shitty hiring decisions and financial management. But even without all that, Olbermann covers it pretty well.
I'm tired of being civil. Fuck Hillary, and fuck those so-called liberals and progressives who still support her after this. They can go vote for McCain, because he'll give them exactly the same thing their feminist heroine has: a campaign filled with race hatred, followed by a corrupt administration focused on expanding the surveillance state and keeping us in Iraq.
(Missed this last bit, sorry.)
When that day dawns and Clinton realizes that she's no longer in the running, how will she react? Will she bolt the Party? Will her supporters?
The stakes are far too high to see McCain put into office (this is a Republican talking here).
"I'm choosing not to read the comments above because they will be larded through with common sense and the gleeful excuse to explain why THIS PERSON is so awful."
Fixed that for you.
"Her comment was not intentional, as the Republicans are, but it was also not a real "misspeak". No passes here. Not from me."
She's intelligent. She's educated. She's an experienced politician. Even I acknowledge those selling points. But it was also not a real "misspeak"? Come on.
Glad to see you're not giving her any passes here, but the reason she did this is because, from the first whine against videogames, she chose to ape the neoconservatives make her career about pandering to fear and racism in the name of ambition.
"I find all this hatred directed at a woman, deeply, deeply offensive. And so uncalled for."
Looks like I'm more of a feminist than you, because I don't look at what I've read here as anger and hatred directed at a woman, I look at it as anger and hatred directed at a person. And since that person did indeed something incredibly disgusting and wrong, I'm not offended that people are angry at her.
OTD i gotta dissagree with you here..i keep hearing about how hillary is smart...one of the frist lies. her campaing has been incompitant form the start...how is that "smart" or signs of an experinced politition...even this comment show how she isn't smart...see if i where running, and i knew there was a possibility that someone was gunnign for my opponent (a distinct possibility with obama as the opponent) i would keep my mouth shut about it...then when it happend...i could be shocked and greif striken...then pick up the fallen banner as a hero taking their place.
by makeign this comment...this "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, some one "may" shoot obama" comment she has no chance to pick up the banner.... any attempt at replacing him will look golish, and mark her as a suspect.
how is that smart?
"OTD i gotta dissagree with you here..i keep hearing about how hillary is smart...one of the frist lies. her campaing has been incompitant form the start...how is that "smart" or signs of an experinced politition..."
I was putting forward her own supporters' selling points, all of which I agree with on a basic level. What her supporters willfully ignore is the fact that all of these qualities can be undermined in any person by hubris and a sense of entitlement and incompetent enabling advisors.
History is full of smart people who make stupid decisions. In fact, I've read about studies suggesting that the smarter people are, the stupider and more monumental their mistakes can be because bright people often have trouble recognizing they have the very human capability to make boneheaded errors.
As Hillary has demonstrated, time after time since she entered the Senate.
I hate the fatigue excuse with a burning passion. Fatigue is like alcohol -- it doesn't put new thoughts in your head, just lowers your inhibitions against expressing the nasty ones.
Furthermore, as hard fought as the last six months have been, they are a fucking tea party compared to the job she's asking us to hire her for. Thomas Jefferson called it 'a splendid misery' two centuries ago... before the US was a continent-spanning world power and before the president sat at the head of the largest organization on Earth. If this is the kind of unforced error she makes when under stress, then she's not a person I want to have access to the big red button.
But, I don't think it was a mistake. She said almost exactly the same thing to Time Magazine back in March. Once is a gaffe. Twice is a strategy.
And one more thing, that's mostly ignored because of the horror evoked by her assassination reference. Her comment about the progress of her husband's campaign is a flat lie. Paul Tsongas, his last serious opponent for the nomination, suspended his campaign in early May.
"If this is the kind of unforced error she makes when under stress, then she's not a person I want to have access to the big red button."
If she makes these sorts of errors when she's tired in the middle of the day, imagine the kind she'd make when awoken out of a deep sleep by a 3AM phone call. 
OtD: spot fucking on. 
LM,
Thanks for the post.
And Moonglum, I'm with you - HRC's campaign made a STRATEGIC error in its very conception - namely, that she was "entitled" to her "coronation" as the Dem standardbearer in a repudiation-election.
To bad for her that 08 is a CHANGE election, perhaps the fundemental election of our current generational cycle, the one that brings forth REAL change. As many noted, the old politics simply aren't cutting it, and the even older racial politics are simply disgucting pandering to the worst within us.
HRC compounded her strategic error by failing to adjust her campaign and address the real shape of the election. Stubbornly. Reminds me of Stalingrad.
While the HRC campaign's TACTICS may be perfectly executed - they won't work because the STRATEGY is fundementally flawed.
And BHO? He may not be all that far from HRC's political tree, but he certainly understand the fundemental, generational change underway in the USA. And his strategy complements and maybe even accelerates that change. That's why he's winning - despite the scorched earth defenses on display by the "faithful".
And as for November? Young vigorous 40-something representative of America's diverse, tolerant, united future? Or old, cancer-scarred 70-something, representative of America's divisive, fearful, angry ancien regime? It's no contest - it should be no contest - and if it turns to the GOP, then there can be no better proof of the collapse of our republic in both practice and spirit.
SP
Maggie Jochild,
I say this in the face of those of you who will take it as proof that she should never have run, should never lead anything, who will find fault with any woman who doesn't choose the Nancy Reagan/Michelle Obama role of controlling from the background.
This is where you lose me. Lumping Michelle Obama in with Nancy Reagan? The controlling woman in the background stereotype? Obama hasn't even been elected yet, and already his wife is some co-conspirator, intent on power?!! Come on.
Carol,
I thought some were GOP provocateurs. I know that so-called progressives instigated and were in league with them.
OtD: "In fact, I've read about studies suggesting that the smarter people are, the stupider and more monumental their mistakes can be because bright people often have trouble recognizing they have the very human capability to make boneheaded errors."
Hmmm. I wonder how that correlates with studies that show less-competent people tend to overvalue their competency, while more-competent ones undervalue theirs? Or is this all wishful thinking, feeling validated because we have studies that make us feel better about ourselves?
“But it was also not a real "misspeak"? Come on.”
I think you misread Maggie here. I got from that what I said in my post:
“A person who should know better and I think did. Desperate times call for desperate measure, and the inside voice that roars within but common sense suppresses got free and said its piece for all to hear.”
A “misspeak” is word garbling. This was a leak of the inside voice. Maybe an ugly inside voice, but we all have a little meanness within. Granted, this wasn't a little meanness, but rather, a manifestation of the worst Machiavellian elements of a politician.
What's that old saying about sausage?
“You love to eat it, but you damn sure don't want to see how it's made.”
Clinton's statement opened the door to the dark inner rooms of a politician's mind where the “sausage” of ambition is made.
And what we saw was a blood-soaked abbatoir.
IvoryBill, after Hillary Clinton's recent episode of "I'm staying in because god and some random psycho might want me to!",
Fuck you AND your "congeniality".
"It's all just so Anita Hill"
What an utter, complete, cheap-shot, crock of shit.
Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries. I will say that GNB has been, by far, the most even handed of the various blogs.
Just for the record, on Dec. 6th, 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed fourteen women at Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal for the crime of being "feminists".
Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
And frankly who gives a fuck.
Women like you ghostcatbce are the reason I can't call myself a feminist.
That excuses the shit she's pulled?
The months of using black America as a puching bag, holding us up as something to be feared, stirring up racial hatred like that won't have any consequence?
Since you are Canadian you probably don't realize that the number of hate groups in this country has grown since Bush took office.
Do you even care about impact that her race-baiting will have on America?
Obama may not be hurt but I can guarantee you some other person not only black but brown as well will be killed because of racial resentments she's reinforced.
Do you not care about fact that she's done McCain a huge favor by praising him. A anti-abortion nutcase who calls his wife a ****!
But oh no. Boo hoo! People are ganging up on poor Hillary.
Fuck her.
She deserves everything that she's getting and more.
She should lose her Senate seat.
She should be drummed out of the Democratic party.
Getting told off by people on the internet should be the least of her worries!
Edited By Siteowner
That word is NOT allowed on this site. --Jesse Wendel, Publisher
Step away from the personal shit, folks.
I don't mind a pie fight, but if you put a bicycle chain in the pie, that shit is wrong. So step back and have a mint julep or take a breath, or something.
If you make brotherman wade in here to break shit up, I'm lumpin' up everybody.
As Moe Howard so eloquently said, “Spread out!”
I've heard several times now that this wasn't the only instance of Hillary making this kind of crack against Obama. What were the other examples?
Just having a little fun, with Ted Rall :o) :
http://news.yahoo.com/
edcartoons...WjPOKhnCTYxvTYC
"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
Pierce, that's the best short thought on Hillary's comments that I've seen.
I hate to laugh about something so vile, and, as Lil' Gator pointed out, so calculated, but, your observation was spot on. :o)
LM's right; we need to lighten up some. Here :o) :
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo...008/05/20/tomo/
John D: She said almost exactly the same thing in a Time Magazine interview back in March. It didn't get as much play back then because she hadn't really started in on courting the George Wallace wing of the Democratic Party yet. And as I've said before, once is a gaffe; twice is a strategy.
Sorry Jesse.
I forgot about the rule.
It won't happen again.
LM- I have been waiting for your comments above all other writers on the blogs. I remember your original post raising the specter of that awful possibility. While it made me slightly ill to confront the unspeakable, I saw and knew that what you wrote came from a truth you have lived. I'm not male and I'm not black...but I was a politically aware 13 year old on the west coast who had followed the human rights cause, followed the '68 race and could vividly remember JFK's assassination. My mother had a portrait of JFK in our living room--the only US president ever thus honored---and after his death, she draped the portrait in black. It didn't come down until sometime in the 1970's. She wept for weeks when he died and we felt an awful emptiness throughout our entire family. I felt the air coming out of our balloon of hope with RFK's assassination. Let's not forget the utterly ugly events at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, which R bloggers have openly wished for in 2008. And, can you blame students for filing away with heads low to stay under cover for a very long time after the National Guard gunned down students at Kent State? It was unthinkable. So, when I heard Hilary's words, I was nauseated and terribly, terribly sad. And, yes, I was angry. It's a no-win for her if you're logical about it: She's either extremely tone-deaf and not very competent to speak so naively...or she's that craven, power-mad politico we'd rather avoid having in office again. This is a woman who is extremely accomplished at public life, a brilliant attorney to boot...or is she? There are times when a "mistake" repeats itself often enough you can only conclude that its perpetrator is either inept or malicious.
It further grieves me to see women on this blog make this about misogyny. No. It. Isn't. I am a feminist of a certain class and certain age...and it is NEVER about religion, ovaries, testicles, skin color or sexual preference IF YOU ARE TRULY committed to human rights. It is about qualifications for public office. Several months ago, I would have argued that she and Barack Obama were equally qualified for the office. But I gave him the edge because I talk a great deal with the people around me who don't necessarily share all of my political views. I live where Democrats win with independent and the relatively more moderate GOP voters. And NONE of them would vote for her. They like Obama. And, yes, Dems in my state gave him his largest caucus margin! Today, however, I argue that Hilary is not only less electable, she does not have the temperament to be President. This isn't about hormones, it's about decency. Frankly, I have an ever deepening admiration for the decency and class demonstrated by the Obama campaign under the ugliest of circumstances. (I have no doubt that the knuckle draggers in the GOP will make it much worse and I have no doubt that our future president Barack Obama, will continue to remain cool in a sh__storm.) That is a leadership we can all emulate. And, I have to say, it is unnecessary for any of us on the blogs to call her vile names. That is where this blog has excelled and should stay that way.
Thank you, LM, for your continued thoughtful, insightful and provocative commentary. I have a touch of writer-envy when I read your articles...but in a good way. Hugs from the west!
Pierce, thanks for the information.
You know, there's an even earlier episode that's perhaps worth dredging up from the past: Back in 2000, in the immediate aftermath of the election, when it became crystal clear the Democratic "leadership" had no intention of staining their dainty hands by challenging the Rethugs in any way, there was a lot of DLC bitterness directed towards Ralph Nader. I forget the exact details, but there was some public meeting, at which one of the Clintons' minions (I forget who) snarled that somebody should shoot Nader, to which Hillary cheerfully responded (and I quote): "That's not a bad idea!"
Not that I hold much truck with Nader these days, but at the time, I thought it was pretty rich that the Dem "leaders" who'd failed the nation in every way imaginable with their feckless conduct during that campaign, would so shamelessly scapegoat an essentially powerless gnat, up to the point where they had the bad taste to call for his assassination...even if it was "just a joke". Frankly, I still think so, and it sickens me to see Hillary Milhouse Clinton resort to the same ugly-mindedness...and this time, against a fellow Democrat (and another centrist, no less!), complete with an extra-added veneer of racist demagogery to boot. She really has revealed herself to be a truly nastty piece of work, easily as bad as Bush himself, or McStain, or Limbaugh, or the rest of the whole sleazy crew.
And it's worth noting, I think, that she only resorts to this brand of scorch-earthed hardball when up against another Democrat, or a liberal, or a leftist of any kind. Never against the Republicans.
I htink the hart of maggies problem is she is still under the dilusion that hillary is "good" If a person is scum, we need ot be able to call them scum regradless of gender.
i remember when this started I was very clear about how much i detested hillary "republican light" clinton. I got blasted for that stance on this site as well as others...the whole "two good candadates BS".
I guess i should feel some grataude towards hillary. and hay at least this scorpion stung you before you got into the water..its jsut sad that some folks will happly continue to give that scorpion a ride all the way to the bottom.
Maggie, choose a better figure head, this one isn't worth it....you can try and be her lancalot..she will never be your Auther...she more of a mordrid.
baltogeek -
Thanks. *smiles*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
cartoo...2281353,00.html
Of Hillary:
Relative to Iraq. Relative to her campaign:
She has not done one single thing; taken not ONE position on a controversial isse, that involved a micron of political courage.
She has not risked an atom of political capital to go against the grain of what george bush and the republicans have done, and are still doing, to us.
In point of fact, she has gone the OTHER direction, and in the effort to whitewash herself of the dreaded "librul" label, has pandered and truckled to the rightwing time and again.
If we could change one solitary thing about her, and only this: if we could somehow throw a switch and change her into a male Senator named "Smith"; THEN her defenders and apologists would be labelling her a turncoat and and a bluedog democrat, and howling for her political scalp. And they would be right.
She supported the bloody debacle in Iraq until it became a political liability for her.
She has breathed life into the discredited and dying corpse of racism.
And she has openly stated that she needs to stay in this primary race because there is always the chance that political assassination could reward her with the nomination.
And when she realized the callous cynicism and blinding stupidity of her statement, she tried to cop-out by making some inverted, half-assed apology to the KENNEDY family.
No Kennedy is at risk in this election. None of them are campaigning and moving into crowds, as is Obama. For her to offer a lame "I'm sorta-kinda sorry" to the Kennedy's, while refusing apologize to Obama, who is, after all, the only candidate who could be assassinated to her benefit; is as grotesque as her comments, themselves.
And I say this:
At this point, neither Barack Obama; nor the democratic party; nor any american who wants to try to salvage something from 8 years of the bloody, arrogant, stupidity of george bush and the republicans, owes her a damn thing, except their scorn and a fervent wish that she drop out of the race, and go hide under her Senate desk in shame.
Trouble brewing in N.Y. for Clinton
Black leaders say that if Hillary Rodham Clinton returns as senator, she'll need to heal racial wounds her campaign has inflicted.
By Peter Nicholas, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
May 25, 2008
Even as she continues her longshot presidential bid, Hillary Rodham Clinton faces a political rift in New York, where black leaders say her standing has dropped due to racially charged comments by her and her husband during the campaign.
African American elected officials and clerics based in New York City say Clinton will need to defuse resentment over the campaign's racial overtones if she returns to New York as U.S. senator.
State Sen. Bill Perkins, who represents Harlem, said constituents recently phoned him because they wanted to demonstrate outside Bill Clinton's Harlem office against comments by the former president.
Michael Benjamin, a state assemblyman who represents parts of the Bronx, said his wife removed a photograph of Bill Clinton from her office wall -- an expression of the misgivings that some black New Yorkers feel.
Assemblyman Karim Camara of Brooklyn contributed $500 to Hillary Clinton's Senate reelection campaign in 2006 and described Bill Clinton as a political hero. He said: "Once the campaign is over there has to be a lot of work to heal the wounds. She needs to go back to the black churches she visited in the course of her campaign and have a frank conversation about who she is and how much the support of the black community means. There would not have been a first Clinton presidency in 1992 if not for the African American community."
Many of the officials back the presidential bid of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, Clinton's rival for the Democratic nomination, though they say they have long supported the Clintons, defending him in the past and supporting her Senate run.
Their sentiments reflect the peculiar arc of the 2008 campaign. Black voters were once central to the Clinton family's political identity and base of support. But that relationship has been strained by the emergence of a charismatic African American candidate who has been propelled by black voters.
"The Clintons have their die-hard fans who would never abandon them," said Eric Adams, a state senator who represents Brooklyn. "But there are those New Yorkers who feel there was a lot of insult, slight and disrespect toward an African American candidate, and it translated as a slight to the African American community."
I am white, female, 57-years-old, and an unabashed fire-breathing liberal and feminist.
I started off in Edwards' camp. I moved to Obama when Edwards dropped out, though I considered him too DLC centrist--which I also felt about Hillary. Neverthelees, the more I observed him and read about him, the better I liked him, and the more convinced I became that he is a populist in centrist clothing, a Trojan Horse, really.
Still, when my son, a fierce Obama supporter, called Hillary a "snake" and swore he would never vote for her if she got the nomination, I spent a lot of futile breath trying to persuade him that she would be a fine candidate and a fine president. I admitted that her high negatives would make the general election campaign more of an uphill battle than it tneeded to be, but I still thought she could win, and I believed she would be a good president.
I still would work for her and vote for her if she miraculously won the nomination, but I would do so reluctantly, because I no longer believe in her essential decency, and I no longer believe a Hillary presidency would be good for the country.
Oh, sure, it would be far, far better than a McCain presidency, which is what I am still trying to make my son understand, but it would not be a presidency I would be proud of, as I suspect Obama's would be. It would just be the elsser of two evils.
I was so excited to think that Obama might be the first Black president, and that Hillary, if she was offered the VP slot, could be the first woman Vie President. Two glass ceilings shattered in my lifetime. Sheer heaven!
But now I would be horrified if she were offered the VP slot. I hope she will just fade away now. In fact, I doubt she even wants to continue to be NY's senator after her current term is up, since I now believe it was only a stepping stone to her run for the presidency, and that with that hope destroyed, she will probably not have any further interest in the seat.
Were she offered the VP slot I would hope she would have the self-respect to turn it down.
well, they're yukking it up over at Faux Newz. Hillary must be soooo proud.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonl...8576/115/
522617
Ghostcatbce, care to explain that Guardian link? I suspect you're trying to make a point about misogyny but I'm not sure because, well, that cartoon sucks. And not because it's offensive, though I'm sure I would find it so if I could figure out what the POV's supposed to be.
If your point is that there are lots of really gross men with effed-up attitudes toward women out there...yeah, we know. The horrible realities of racism don't make Harold Ford Jr. worth rooting for; same goes for HRC.
Anybody else think that the vicious intraparty squabbling is at least partially due to the fact that, deep down, we're sorta happy to argue with people we at least recognize as members of the same species? Y'know, considering we've spent almost 8 years dealing with irredeemable, soulless monsters.
Right on target, and right on target, as usual. Thank you for writing this.
(And thank you to KnaveRupe at Democratic Underground for linking to this in IWantAnyDem's thread, 'Barack Obama is the Bravest Human Being to run for office in 40 years')
Nellcote, that's absolutely disgusting. I hope she's fired.
"I think you misread Maggie here."
Re-reading it, I can see that, so sorry for any confusion. However, as noted above, I would disagree with Maggie that the remark was not intentional. This is more of the same carefully crafted fearmongering she learned from her neoconservative rivals. That Hillary was clumsy about it doesn't change that.
Nah, c'mon, OtD. The 3am ad, yeah, but the intent here just wasn't that nefarious. Only by a matter of degree, though--she was trying to appeal to our lizard brains (the better hemisphere, to be fair) and glossing over a deeply flawed analogy by invoking someone's tragic death. That sucks enough without accusing her of dog-whistling. You don't brag about white people liking you if you know how to dog-whistle.
And I don't think I'm taking away anything from LM's reaction by defending her, if that's what I just did there. I just think she's got a tin ear. With a car battery hooked up to it.
Plenty of politicians--some of them quite decent from a voting record standpoint--got where they are pulling the exact same shit, but when HRC tries it always comes off as forced and weighted. Weighted with what, I don't know; I'll grant that it might be no more than what I bring to it. Still, she's a terrible bullshitter, and if she really wants to be one this badly, then she chose the wrong path to the nomination.
Nellcote; good post, thanks.
Let us not forget who put this idea in the realm of just good ol' political savvy.
And it's about time the rest of the
superdelegates remembered it, too.
Are THEY holding off, "just in case"?
We'll have to disagree, off white. Just because she botched the dog-whistle call, doesn't mean that's not what she was going for, both on Friday and back in March.
"Ah, so like the good little woman, she should have left when she was told to by the almighty blogosphere. Too bad people are still voting for her in various primaries."
No, like a good Democrat, she should have refrained from trashing the party and its probable candidate once it became apparent that her chances were slim at best. She should have either suspended her campaign with grace, or focused on going after Republicans (a la Huckabee), instead of praising their frontrunner to the disadvantage of Obama. Edwards, Huckabee, Paul, and even Romney are still getting votes, but you don't see any of them attacking their own party (except Paul, but he's more of a Bircher-wing Libertarian anyway) and playing Calvinball in a desperate attempt to secure the nomination. If she was Harold Clinton instead of Hillary, the calls for her to cut it out (and yes, some to drop out) would still be there.
Besides, look at how badly Lieberman, ex-Democrat, gets verbally thrashed for his appeasement and enabling of Republicans. It has nothing to do with his gender, or religion, and everything to do with his tawdry politicking and vain, sanctimonious ambition.
I think that there is a continuum of her supporters.
For some of them; the bubble-dwellers who still think she'd make a good nominee, AND STILL DESERVES IT, and who think that she's being persecuted by all of us woman-hating "misogynists", will be so bitter at the de-railling of the coronation express, that they might sit it out, or even, in their insanity, vote for McCain.
But if you want your eyes opened, go over to FDL and check out Eli's thread about her reasons for staying in. A lot of her erstwhile supporters are, happily enough, appalled at what she said, and enough of them are saying that Obama is in, and that they will now support him, that it was encouraging to me.
The diehards threatening to bolt, are indulging themselves in the same ego-tripping that led them to believe that all she had to do was put her name on the primary ballots, and she would be the nominee. They much overrate their power and influence in this election year.
For myself, I'm not afraid of them. I'm confident of Barack Obama's ability to pull new voters out for the party, and if the price of keeping the triangulators on board for the election is to ignore Hillary's pornographic reasoning for keeping going, then I say, good riddance.
I believe, in my marrow, that we can do it without them. :o)
I think that there is a continuum of her supporters.
For some of them; the bubble-dwellers who still think she'd make a good nominee, AND STILL DESERVES IT, and who think that she's being persecuted by all of us woman-hating "misogynists", will be so bitter at the de-railling of the coronation express, that they might sit it out, or even, in their insanity, vote for McCain.
But if you want your eyes opened, go over to FDL and check out Eli's thread about her reasons for staying in. A lot of her erstwhile supporters are, happily enough, appalled at what she said, and enough of them are saying that Obama is in, and that they will now support him, that it was encouraging to me.
The diehards threatening to bolt, are indulging themselves in the same ego-tripping that led them to believe that all she had to do was put her name on the primary ballots, and she would be the nominee. They much overrate their power and influence in this election year.
For myself, I'm not afraid of them. I'm confident of Barack Obama's ability to pull new voters out for the party, and if the price of keeping the triangulators on board for the election is to ignore Hillary's pornographic reasoning for keeping going, then I say, good riddance.
I believe, in my marrow, that we can do it without them. :o)
hilary sux--of course, for all the reasons KO lays out, for all the reasons in the great post above about her lack of political courage,,and for a lot of other reasons...so why have i never written "hillary sux" ever before....because she IS a woman,,as in, i have been giving her pass after pass for reasons of gender...that is over now..not bc i all a sudden dont like women,,,but bc her suckineess just finally swamped over my efforts to cut her slack for being a woman haveing to deal with that fact in the world she inhabits
Harold Ford? You want to defend Harold Ford and Hillary in the same post? Gack!
DLC-R-US is in the house! Feh.
Dismantle the DLC and we might have us a ball game!
This just in, It is all Obama's fault.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/t...ml?
hpid=topnews
mcauliff should be arrested for fraud.
Myrtle:
I think you misread k.o.a.o.w.'s last comment. Maybe it's the hour, but I didn't read
The horrible realities of racism don't make Harold Ford Jr. worth rooting for; same goes for HRC.
as a defense of either Harold Ford, Jr. or Hillary Clinton.
Otherwise, what you said.
And I agree with LM: Maggie went right to the heart of it with her "slavering Dobermans". That was a brilliant summation of the place to which Clinton's compromises and calculations have brought her.
Not that I've anything against either compromise or calculation -- along with opportunistism, that's pretty much the job description for politicians, regardless of children's fables like Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. The problem is that Clinton's compromises turn out more like capitulations, and her calculations don't seem to pan out all that well, either.
"[O]pportunistism"?
Now I know it's way past my bedtime.
This whole episode should put the final nail in hte VP coffin now....why would obama pick hillary, she has now expresed an intrest in having him killed
hell considering the right wings love of the clinton death list, perhapse publicly calling for the assassination of your opponenet was not the best tatic.
Myrtle, Groucho took care of it for me, but no, no defense of Ford from these quarters. I was saying that the vicious racism he encountered while running doesn't make him any less of a creep. You're not always distinguished by your enemies.
Again, I'm not sure that "stupid, lame, and tactless, but not necessarily evil" is a defense, but I stand by my radical stance that Hillary doesn't really want to kill anybody. Moonglum would, I assume, disagree.
And I still wish somebody would explain that Guardian cartoon.
Oops. You're so right. Read that totally wrong. *blush*
... and thank you for kindly pointing it out.
dear lowermanhattanite:
thank you VERY much for your thoughtful post.
i have been really astonished at the "move on" and "it's the media making a big deal of this" crap going on at the majority of the blogs i read on a daily basis.
"move on"? really?
are they going to give the same advice the next time someone who is, oh, say, NOT a democrat makes a crack like this?
you mean we should just tell, for instance, liz trotta, "oh, never mind, we know you didn't mean it"?
what sealed it for me was that clinton, in her op-ed, did not apologize for lighting my hair on fire.
i too, though only eleven years old, was great affected by the assassinations of MLK and RFK. the shock and horror from those days which still resonates with many people is cannot, and should not, be dismissed in the blithe manner which so many otherwise reasonable people recommend.
Thanks LM for the post. I got caught up reading the middle of the comments and wanted to make sure I let you know how much I appreciated your comments.
I was born just before the assassinations, but they left an indelible mark on me -- it made me fearful of being involved in politics -- although at times I have overcome that fear.
The comment by Steve T. about how it seemed to give an excuse to jump start the security state within America is something I hadn't thought of before.
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