isamu writes:
What is heartless about wanting the best for your people?

yours in Christ,
Isamu
isamu | 05.21.08 - 10:27 am | #

YLSP writes:
$12.3M in up-front savings... but I thought the cost of not educating children was greater... so we'll be paying more than that in the courts, judicial and prison systems, right?

Way to keep your eyes on the ball...
YLSP | 05.21.08 - 10:28 am | #

Lawyerliz writes:
My secy has done this for years to get the best schools for her children.
I don't blame her, I'm not tellin'.

How will this save any money? The kids will merely be moved from a school they're used to, with friends to a new school.

Are the authorities hoping they drop out.

First?
Lawyerliz | 05.21.08 - 10:29 am | #

Fast Eddie writes:
These children should be taken from their irresponsible, and possibly abusive parents, and put in child protective custody, until at least we can identify the true parents.
Fast Eddie | 05.21.08 - 10:30 am | #

Tanta writes:
What is heartless about wanting the best for your people?

You will want to watch out for any post in which Tanta uses the term "heartless banker." It's kinda like an irony alert sort of thing.

That said, what's so bloody noble about kicking other people (or their kids) when they're down?
Tanta | 05.21.08 - 10:32 am | #

TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
I completely agree with the crackdown. If the parents are not paying real estate taxes in the school district, their kids have NO business going to the already overburdened schools in that district. How would that be fair to any of the other kids and families who live and actually pay taxes there.

What are we supposed to do here? Have another boo hoo hoo moment over the posers that had no business living in those districts in the first place.
TulipsAllOverAgain | 05.21.08 - 10:33 am | #

Sol writes:
Soooo not surprising - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/1...=rssnyt& emc=rss
Sol | 05.21.08 - 10:35 am | #

Tom Stone writes:
My God Tanta,I don't want those people on MY child's school! they should keep their place,and besides I don't want to have THAT TALK with muffy until she is at least 10,it might scar her psyche!But I'd have to,herpes you know...
Tom Stone | 05.21.08 - 10:35 am | #

Mel writes:
Does this mean some kids have become sub-prime?
Mel | 05.21.08 - 10:37 am | #

YLSP writes:
Palm Beach County officials say the tips have led to dozens of students switching schools and help ensure that individual schools in the district aren't bearing disproportionate burdens. They say they have heard of families illegally sharing homes in upscale areas that are zoned for single-family homes.

Oh my gosh! Dozens!! Is this number similar to the number of people who have walked-away... dozens!
YLSP | 05.21.08 - 10:38 am | #

w writes:
Personally, I do not care. Unless of course the kids are here illegally. In which case they should be allowed to continue at the school of their choice.
w | 05.21.08 - 10:39 am | #

JP writes:
First I read: isamu writes: What is heartless about wanting the best for your people? thinking you were serious.

Then I see: yours in Christ,

and concluded you were doing a fine mockery of hypocrites.
JP | 05.21.08 - 10:41 am | #

Windowdog writes:
Jesus Tulips, you're all heart.

I don't see a problem letting kids finish out the year at least, budgets were based on last years taxes anyways.
Windowdog | 05.21.08 - 10:42 am | #

Average Joe writes:
All the parents of the forclosed kids have to do to get the PI's to back off is to claim that none of the kids are children of legal citizens.
Average Joe | 05.21.08 - 10:43 am | #

Ministry of Truth writes:
I find it so interesting how kids can only go to school where they live in the US. Growing up outside of the US I had the opportunity to attend any public school I wanted. Guess what, I choose the one closest to me. All of probably 10 kids would bus across town to attend the school. Most of them just had moved and just wanted to finish off their senior year. What a stupid public school system the US has.
Ministry of Truth | 05.21.08 - 10:44 am | #

Tanta writes:
I think that these counties should also throw kids out of schools if they still live in the district, but they have past-due tax bills or tax liens. Also, if they file grievances to get their taxes lowered because there are foreclosed properties in the neighborhood bringing their appraised values down, they should have to reduce their children's attendance by the proportion of the tax bill reduction. So, if you get your bill reduced by 40%, your kids have to stay home from school on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Lord knows the idea that people are committing zoning violations in order to keep their kids in school is an outrage. That should be illegal, right there.

/ sarcasm
Tanta | 05.21.08 - 10:46 am | #

Zero writes:
Tanta, I agree this sounds bad but it seems necessary in my part of the San Francisco Bay Area.

Population dynamics have been such that the local district closed schools in the 1980s due to lack of demand, selling some of the land to pay ongoing costs (stupid!) Then with increasing enrollment in the 1990s they reopened one school and added trailers everywhere. But people kept moving here for the schools. Eventually new transplants were no longer able to get into nearby schools and spent up to an hour on buses every day. Turns out that more than a few students did not live in the area, so the district started requiring additional proof for registration. That helped the overcrowding. They still allow transfer requests, but only a space-available basis, which gives priority to local students.

Ironically, the local schools are very poorly funded. Without getting into details of the whole California school funding debacle, ours is rated as a "low wealth" district, meaning that property tax collections were low in 1972. The upshot is that our district gets about $1000/student less than the best-compensated districts due to history, not costs or any other rational criteria. This led to a long tradition of community support for the schools (including additional funding through property taxes requiring a 2/3 vote) which led to great schools which has led to increased demand--and thus the limitation on out-of-area students.

What we really need is a great education for all young people--nothing is more important to our future--but if you can't solve the global problem it doesn't mean you give up on the solving it locally.
Zero | 05.21.08 - 10:46 am | #

Windowdog writes:
Ministry,

Come to NJ, you'll get run down by a Lexus SUV for talking that way.
Windowdog | 05.21.08 - 10:47 am | #

Windowdog writes:
In my town fully disabled wounded military veterans don't have to pay property tax. Under the Florida model I guess we chuck their kids out on their ass as well.
Windowdog | 05.21.08 - 10:50 am | #

Aheadofthecurve writes:
"What a stupid public school system the US has."

In many countries schools are funded nationally and teachers are employed by the Ministry of Education and teach a national curriculum. Local districts are responsible for the buildings. The US may be too big to do that nationally, but why not at the state level?
Aheadofthecurve | 05.21.08 - 10:50 am | #

Jim writes:
If a child has such poor judgement as to be born to a family that has no money or has mismanaged its money, then, rightfully, that child should suffer the consequences.

America is a meritocracy.
Jim | 05.21.08 - 10:50 am | #

linear algebra writes:
Believe it or not, in Houston, Texas, ten years ago or so, the school district worked out a program with landlords and families in, er, transition, to keep those kids in the schools they had started the school year in, at least through the end of the school year, and the impact on educational achievement was measurable and positive.
I don't know what ever became of that effort--it attracted a great deal of positive comment. And, of course, the schools involved tended to be in rough areas--not exactly on the model of 'the best education money can't buy' of magnet programs and crozy little neighborhood elementary schools with lots moms and cookies in the classrooms and a playground chock full of brand new equipment bought and paid for with the proceeds from the PTO's annual auction. That's where the gamesmanship with attendance boundaries and the snitch factor comes into play.
linear algebra | 05.21.08 - 10:51 am | #

sterlingerl writes:
Tulips is right. If you don't pay local taxes you are not supporting the cost of running the school and your kids have no business attending it. Sadly, this does mean there are now subprime kids, and they get to go to subprime schools.
sterlingerl | 05.21.08 - 10:51 am | #

manu06 writes:
The real problem is how schools are funded and
not enforced residency requirements. I know
people who chose to live outside the city limits (lower taxes) but want their children educated in the city schools
manu06 | 05.21.08 - 10:51 am | #

Sandblaster writes:
Here's one for you:

I have a daughter who will graduate high school next year at age 12. The state university just raised tuition by almost 10% and said they'd offer more work study to help with the costs.

But she can't work until she's 16.
Sandblaster | 05.21.08 - 10:52 am | #

RacerX writes:
If the parents are not paying real estate taxes in the school district, their kids have NO business going to the already overburdened schools in that district.

Not that I condone this but some school districts are gerrymandered to the extent that RE taxes aren't the primary reason for exclusion. You could buy a home in a neighborhood in a school district and then get zoned out of it the next year
RacerX | 05.21.08 - 10:53 am | #

Anonymous writes:
Grossmont School district (in east SD county) is going house to house searching for truants.....not because they are concerned about providing an education for them...no they are concerned about the $8.50 (or so) per child for one hour of instruction that they receive from the state.

Lay off teachers but hire drop out specialists for no other reason than keeping the 'funding train' moving.

If these districts knew how to manage a business in both good and bad times this wouldn't be a problem. I've seen my local SD (poway) spend lavishly on office furniture at the district office (replacing 2 year old desks) at the same time it cut after school programs and supplemental food programs so that the district employees can have more layers of "administration"

Makes me sick

http://www.signonsandiego.com/ne...99- 1n21ada.html

Ciao
MS
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 10:53 am | #

Rob Dawg writes:
That said, what's so bloody noble about kicking other people (or their kids) when they're down?
- Tanta

Welcome to California where any attempt to excel is suppressed for the greater good. Tax responsible choices. A society of lowest common denominator. The danger in the direct example is exactly the same danger we encounter with letting the rules slide in past mortgage lending.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 10:56 am | #

DCRogers writes:
Here's a technique that might prove helpful:

California school district enforces residency rule using camera

Perhaps we photograph the children of the foreclosed and send the images to the principals?
DCRogers | 05.21.08 - 10:56 am | #

Windowdog writes:
"The US may be too big to do that nationally, but why not at the state level?"

In states like NJ, where the income disparity varies between neighboring towns on a level that's almost morally reprehensible, this would cause rich towns to lose their Japanese, Italian, Korean, and AP Horticulture programs, while doing crazy shit like buying books in the poorest towns.

As a result any time this is suggested the entire middle class votes GOP en masse and we end up with Christy Whitman for eight years. The Democrats like being in power so they never bring it up anymore. So we continue with our one state two systems methodology.

Thank god we're a progressive state though.
Windowdog | 05.21.08 - 10:56 am | #

lama writes:
Maybe these children should be homeschooled?
Wait...nevermind.
lama | 05.21.08 - 10:56 am | #

Anonymous writes:
Nothing wrong or Un-American about trying to cheat the system. These kids are learning from the experts and will one day grow up to be just like Mom and Dad. Isn't that a happy thought.
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 10:57 am | #

JS writes:
I'm confused. Isn't "school choice" the thing that conservatives always argue for and liberals hate? Now the liberals seem to be for it.
JS | 05.21.08 - 10:57 am | #

linda writes:
This is what struck me most about this story:

The bank has said she can stay in the house until at least the end of the year.

That's seven months free rent, not counting the months she's already behind.

I'm fresh out of sympathy.
linda | 05.21.08 - 11:00 am | #

YLSP writes:
What's funny about the article is that it states Districts from Florida to California, yet we read stories from Florida, California and Chicago... which are places with a large number of illegal immigrants.

There's also the anecdote regarding multi-families living in single-family-homes. As much as I hate the Federal government for not doing anything about illegal immigration, I don't think it's right to mess with their kids... but hey, county and state sentiment is to kick the kids out... so what can yah do.

People that don't have kids still have to pay property taxes, right? And people that have 10 kids pay the same property taxes, right? I think this is a drop in the bucket... and again... what's the future cost to some dozens of kids? Wouldn't someone homeless just be more likely to take their kids out of school?

Also, what's with the contradiction between Federal law and what's going on... it seems as if anyone who has been removed from school could file a lawsuit and have it up-held, due to the McKinney-Veton amendment?
YLSP | 05.21.08 - 11:00 am | #

Jim writes:
Didn't the Supreme Court of Texas, of all places, rule that all school districts in a a state had to be equitably funded, otherwise, the state Constitution was violated?

If in death-penalty-loving, war-loving, Christianist Texas, why not in New Jersey?
Jim | 05.21.08 - 11:01 am | #

Tim writes:
Nothing wrong or Un-American about trying to cheat the system.

Bankers and Wall Street does it all the time. i wish they would go after white collar crime with equal vigor.
Tim | 05.21.08 - 11:02 am | #

Tom43 writes:
Since we have no kids in school, maybe we could start a program to "adopt" at few students-- or ask for our tax money back?
Tom43 | 05.21.08 - 11:03 am | #

Cooking ramen in my percolator writes:
America is in very bad shape. Our only hope lies in the future generation doing the right thing... but it sounds like most of the commenters here want to kill that hope!

Greedy parents who are willing to kick out innocent kids just so their kids get ahead... I hope you all choke to death with your "achievements"!
Cooking ramen in my percolator | 05.21.08 - 11:05 am | #

Yossarian writes:
Here in Oregon, we DO fund a good chunk of schools via statewide taxes.. poor rural districts used to get totally shafted on funding. Now, things are roughly equal between districts.
Of course, wealthy districts can raise money independently through 'auctions', etc... and they do. One of the primary schools in West Linn (white collar) raised something on the order of 30 to 40k last year. Spent a ton on violins for the third grade.
Where I work in a rural district, we'd have trouble raising 5,000 bucks for anything. Thankfully, the state helps us out a lot.

California, for those who forget... USED TO be the school model for the nation. You can argue about the reasons why it fell.

Nowadays, in Cali's urban areas, only fools and poor folks send their kids to public school. Here in Oregon, MOST people still think public schools are at least OK.
Yossarian | 05.21.08 - 11:05 am | #

Tanta writes:
Look, a whole boatload of people bought way more house than they could afford because they bought into the view that you should make any possible sacrifice to get your kids into the "right" school district.

Well, that plan didn't work out so hot for a lot of people.

But to now turn around and demonize them as "tax cheats" and "zoning violators" makes me more than a touch queasy.

But what do I know? I'm one of those childless people who pays property taxes to support schools for other people's kids. I'm so thrilled by the thought that my tax money is paying for some PI to hound the homeless.
Tanta | 05.21.08 - 11:06 am | #

the_economist writes:
If I live in my car with my kids and I am parked across the street from a school, am I in that school's district?
the_economist | 05.21.08 - 11:07 am | #

Lumpeninvestor writes:
The new Scarlet Letter is "F".
Lumpeninvestor | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:07 am | #

Room_641A writes:
When something that used to be a privilege(earned) is made a right(given) it loses its value.

Just wait until health care is completely nationalized...
Room_641A | 05.21.08 - 11:07 am | #

foo writes:
This speaks to the awesomeness of the local property tax funding model for California schooling.
foo | 05.21.08 - 11:09 am | #

Jim writes:
"When something that used to be a privilege (earned) is made a right (given) it loses its value."

Damn free-loading kids! Let them earn the privilege to go to school the old-fashioned way!
Jim | 05.21.08 - 11:09 am | #

YLSP writes:
The sad thing is... where is the money savings going? Do you think it's going back into the teachers and children? Or do you think it's going into the salary's of school administrators?

I'm pretty sure I know who gets to keep the savings...
YLSP | 05.21.08 - 11:10 am | #

Yossarian writes:
JS - Just who are 'The Liberals'? As far as I've been able to tell, this word has lost all of its orginal meaning, and now just means, "someone I dislike".
Seriously, did I miss a meeting? Who are these 'Liberal' hypocrites, and why can't I get any of them involved in my district?
Yossarian | 05.21.08 - 11:10 am | #

Anonymous writes:
easy way around this is to just use a friend's address....worked for me almost 20 years ago. And we got caught.......two days before I graduated. My parents laughed at the 'attempt' to collect using my diploma as leverage. A quick letter with the right letterhead solved that problem......LOL

Ciao
MS
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 11:10 am | #

Aheadofthecurve writes:
State funding equalization between districts is alright, but not the same as a statewide school system, like France has a nationwide school system. Even if the money comes from the state, there is an enormous waste in having petty local bureaucrats with their little feifdoms.
Aheadofthecurve | 05.21.08 - 11:11 am | #

foo writes:
"When something that used to be a privilege(earned) is made a right(given) it loses its value."

No. This is what happens when something that should be a right is made a privilege.
foo | 05.21.08 - 11:13 am | #

JS writes:
There's also waste in having massive centralized bureaucracies.
JS | 05.21.08 - 11:13 am | #

Anon123 writes:
It is called passing the buck.
America is very good at that.
Anon123 | 05.21.08 - 11:14 am | #

Rob Dawg writes:
foo writes:
This speaks to the awesomeness of the local property tax funding model for California schooling.

It spoke to the awesomeness of the California model prior to the equal funding legislation of 1978. Then with equal funding for all that in practice rewards poorer performance the vaunted California public schools system went from the top 5 to the bottom 5 in the nation in one cycle K-12.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:14 am | #

Tim writes:
i disagree room. Attendance at School is the law under the age of 16. It has to do with greater social consequences and all something that doesn't affect you. Health care analogy is wrong in this case. People do pay for part of every school with their state and local taxes.
Tim | 05.21.08 - 11:15 am | #

Ceilingfan writes:
Using a friend or relative's address to get your child into a certain school is nothing new in Miami. It has nothing to do with the housing crisis.
Ceilingfan | 05.21.08 - 11:17 am | #

Oil Equations writes:
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=N...? s=NYMEX_CL.N08

130.75

that should cure the problem of taking students over the county line shortly.
Oil Equations | 05.21.08 - 11:17 am | #

jg writes:
OT -- huge volume in futures purchases; the PPT is in overdrive trying to prevent a meltdown.
jg | 05.21.08 - 11:18 am | #

BB writes:
On another note, did you guys know that oil is up 131.81 now?.. Decrease of 5.4 m barrels inventory..what
???
BB | 05.21.08 - 11:18 am | #

BG writes:
Why is this suprising? Everybody loves their own kids more than anybody else's. This is a plain and obvious fact driven by a couple of billion year's worth of evolution.

Note that well prior to the RE bubble bursting, you've still had constant clashes between state governments trying to spread school funding around and local governments trying to hang on to the funding they raise via property taxes. This holds true in otherwise deeply "Blue" states such as NY, which puts the lie to a great deal of rhetoric on the subject. Push comes to shove, your own come first.
BG | 05.21.08 - 11:19 am | #

aStepTowardsSocialization writes:
we need More Lotteries!
aStepTowardsSocialization | 05.21.08 - 11:19 am | #

YLSP writes:
Rob Dawg,
It has nothing to do with the fact that California has one of the highest percentage of ESL students in the country?
YLSP | 05.21.08 - 11:21 am | #

deutschBag writes:
My parents laughed at the 'attempt' to collect using my diploma as leverage. A quick letter with the right letterhead solved that problem......LOL


Now I understand why you were so upset with your Heloc redcution. your fico entitles you to it!
deutschBag | 05.21.08 - 11:22 am | #

Anonymous writes:
That nice man Mr. Bernanie will get this mess straightened out don't you worry.
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 11:22 am | #

robert writes:
It's my understanding that state funding for the schools is based on their roll call day early in the school year.

Do these districts then refund the money they collected based on the head count when they boot a student?
robert | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:24 am | #

sterlingerl writes:
Greedy parents who are willing to kick out innocent kids just so their kids get ahead... - cooking raman

Nope, you are wrong. My kids are privately educated. I pay £30k per year tuition for two kids. I am absolutely happy to pay local taxes on top of that so that the local public schools are good quailty and this is obviously beneficial to the local kids. What I object to are people scamming they system and cheating, which seems hopelssly rife in America. Do these poeple cheat on their taxes too? And hope for bailouts? When does it stop? When does integrity return?
sterlingerl | 05.21.08 - 11:24 am | #

Rob Dawg writes:
YLSP writes: Rob Dawg,
It has nothing to do with the fact that California has one of the highest percentage of ESL students in the country?

Nope, twas that way before the State takeover in funding.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:25 am | #

Room_641A writes:
The only right that I can think of...that I am entitled to just for being born...is the right to own property....in addition to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and all that jazz.

What happens from there on out is up to me. My choices and my efforts determine my course.

People have recognized the ability to acquire what ever they want by pulling things into the "right" circle. It is a mistake.

IMHO.
Room_641A | 05.21.08 - 11:25 am | #

BenB'sBailoutBonanza writes:
time to fly naked

The world's largest airline, owned by AMR Corp (NYSE:AMR - News), also said it would charge $15 for passengers' first checked bag starting in mid-June, an unprecedented move by a major U.S. airline as it tries to claw back more of its extra fuel costs.

BenB'sBailoutBonanza | 05.21.08 - 11:26 am | #

askin writes:
sterlingerl,
you pay 60g's us, 30k euro to educate to kidz? a year?
askin | 05.21.08 - 11:28 am | #

rich writes:
>I completely agree with the crackdown. If the parents are not paying real estate taxes in the school district, their kids have NO business going to the already overburdened schools in that district. How would that be fair to any of the other kids and families who live and actually pay taxes there.


There is no requirement that parents pay taxes to receive public schhooling. The requirement is residency. A homeless person or foster child who establishes residency in a district is entitled to schooling.

The fastest growing expense of school districts in the U.S. is for compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. For children diagnosed as disabled, the district must establish a personal educational plan for the disabled child and pay for out-of-district educational services, if required.

The fastest growing type of disability diagnosed in young children is emotiional. ED (emotional disability) is entitled to the same plan and services as a blind, deaf or mentally retarded child.

As children go through the trauma of bankruptcy, foreclosure, divorce, parents' alcoholism, etc., they are being taking into the social services network and diagnosed as ED at a staggering rate. The cost burden on districts has only just begun. Typically, it is increasing double-digits every year in most districts.

My own ED child received more than half a million dollars of assistance from local school district and state social services.
rich | 05.21.08 - 11:28 am | #

rich writes:
By the way, there is no means-testing (income-relating) of required school district services for children under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

You could be Bill Gates and still get a million dollars of district financial assistance.
rich | 05.21.08 - 11:30 am | #

IfSoSmartWhyNotRich writes:
I'm skeptical about this story. Schools are paid by the head. In our district (OC, CA), principals ignore obvious evidence of commuter students, because they don't want to lose the revenue.
IfSoSmartWhyNotRich | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:31 am | #

TM writes:
The key going forward will be getting the rear rows for early boarding purposes. At this point, if you're even in group 3, your bag ends up in the cargo hold. Charging for just the first checked bag will mean more people cramming the overnight luggage into the overheads.

I don't know if they will charge you if there's no more overhead room left, but it wouldn't shock me.
TM | 05.21.08 - 11:31 am | #

sterlingerl writes:
$60k USD per year. I came to UK to work but stayed for the schools.
sterlingerl | 05.21.08 - 11:32 am | #

flaminia writes:
Mr. Dawg seems to have forgotten Proposition 13. California has been slowly bleeding its school system of funds for decades now. The results are merely the balance of the tautology.

Like Tanta and a few others who have posted on here, I don't have kids. I've paid property taxes for 20 years so far. I vote for my taxes going to educate these new untouchables. The "I Me Mine" mentality of so many middle class parents is revolting.
flaminia | 05.21.08 - 11:32 am | #

Aheadofthecurve writes:
rich- Better half a mil to help your child than to fund the mess in Iraq. My son has Aspergers and the school system has been a tremendous help to him.
Aheadofthecurve | 05.21.08 - 11:33 am | #

robert writes:
[ED (emotional disability) is entitled to the same plan and services as a blind, deaf or mentally retarded child. ]

I thought Levitra cured that problem.
robert | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:35 am | #

robert writes:
Oops... wrong ED... sorry, I was just clearing my inbox.
robert | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:35 am | #

TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
Tanta writes:

"Look, a whole boatload of people bought way more house than they could afford because they bought into the view that you should make any possible sacrifice to get your kids into the "right" school district."

Tanta -- Luv your blog, but PUhLEESE! That boatload of people overextended themselves thinking it was an easy way to get rich. And the first thing people do when they get rich, is send their kids to private schools. So I'm not buying it. Not for one minute.

Disclosure: I have no kids, don't pay real estate taxes, and think that everybody should play by the rules they have voted for or work to make the system better, not cheat it.
TulipsAllOverAgain | 05.21.08 - 11:36 am | #

Aheadofthecurve writes:
"And the first thing people do when they get rich, is send their kids to private schools."

Not true everywhere. The good public schools around here are better than the private schools. Much more in the way of course choices.
Aheadofthecurve | 05.21.08 - 11:41 am | #

NoVa writes:
Not that I condone this but some school districts are gerrymandered to the extent that RE taxes aren't the primary reason for exclusion...

Some? In No. VA I think all are. They will bus kids 10 miles to keep the school body pale. You don't think HS are eached tagged? White, White and Rich, Black, Spanish.

America is a classless society? I laugh, I scoff, I guffaw. HS is were the rules of money and who has it and who dosen't are naked and have sharp edges.

In my area you get asked:

Where do you work or what do you do.
Where does your kid(s) go to school.

That gives you enough info to begin being a judgemental weezil.
NoVa | 05.21.08 - 11:42 am | #

TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
Rich writes: There is no requirement that parents pay taxes to receive public schhooling. The requirement is residency.

Rich -- Pull it together. If you reside in the district you are paying real estate taxes in one form or another. If you own in the district, you pay taxes directly on the property that you own. If you rent in the district, you pay taxes indirectly through your rent that you pay on the property owned by another. A foster child has to live with someone in one of the above categories. Fine by me to let the children of the homeless in for free, its statisically irrelevant.
TulipsAllOverAgain | 05.21.08 - 11:46 am | #

Sarah writes:
the_economist writes:
If I live in my car with my kids and I am parked across the street from a school, am I in that school's district?
the_economist

I was just thinking about this... Seems to me there was a court case way back in the Jurassic that established that a homeless person can use the place where they usually spend their time as their 'residence' for the purposes of voter registration. Before that time communities were doing their damnedest to prevent the homeless from voting.

For the 'play by the rules' folks here, free, universal public education is the rule in the United States and has been since the founding of the Republic. If you want to get mad at 'rule breaking' look to the people who have distorted that principle to allow the children of the rich to get a far superior education to the children of the poor.

And remember it used to be quite different here not that long ago. The changes started when significant numbers of the middle class took their children out of the public school system and became increasingly reluctant to support them with high taxes. When I was in school, every property tax proposal made passed by a wide majority because people knew it was paying for their kids' school.
Sarah | 05.21.08 - 11:48 am | #

isamu writes:
Funding has nothing to do with the quality of education. That hoary old Liberal myth needs to die already.

yours in Christ,
Isamu
isamu | 05.21.08 - 11:48 am | #

Anonymous writes:
DB-

Responsible management of one's asset's in not entitlement but people who criticize others for it certainly displays a lack of understanding of the problem.

Good luck with the ego

Ciao
MS
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 11:49 am | #

VennData writes:
Bush's economic policy: No Child Left in Class.
VennData | 05.21.08 - 11:52 am | #

Rob Dawg writes:
flaminia writes:
Mr. Dawg seems to have forgotten Proposition 13. California has been slowly bleeding its school system of funds for decades now. The results are merely the balance of the tautology.

It is impolite to tell people what you assume they have forgotten. Prop 13 which also coincidentally passed in 1978 resulted in no dimunition at any level of public education funding.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 11:55 am | #

Mel writes:
I am continually surprised by the number of "liberal" postings at this site. America does have a bright future.
Mel | 05.21.08 - 11:55 am | #

Mel writes:
I am continually surprised by the number of "liberal" postings at this site. America does have a bright future.
Mel | 05.21.08 - 11:55 am | #

Anonymous writes:
What did you learn in school today Johnny? Sharing or swearing? Swearing Mom. That's good johnny now why don't you go outside and chase some parked cars.
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 11:56 am | #

Mel writes:
Sorry for double post.
Mel | 05.21.08 - 11:56 am | #

ZIRP-USA writes:
Another good reason to vote with your feet and get out of this f*cked up country.
ZIRP-USA | 05.21.08 - 11:57 am | #

Anonymous writes:
"I am continually surprised by the number of "liberal" postings at this site. America does have a bright future.

I am continually surprised by the number of stupid optimistic postings at this site. America is screwed.
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 11:59 am | #

scav writes:
Isamu, whatever christ you've got going there is one freaking scary individual and I do not want to see him erupting out of your chest. Well, that or you erupting out of his. I'm not sure which image you're aiming for.
scav | 05.21.08 - 11:59 am | #

FT Woods writes:
Mean spiritedness is grasping for new highs. Thank you Ronald Reagan for creating a legacy that just keeps on giving.

According to the census bureau, 2007 estimate of children aged 5-19 is 61,637,627 out of a total population of 300 million.
FT Woods | 05.21.08 - 12:00 pm | #

sdtfs writes:
You know, they could have just waited for the higher gas prices to correct the out of district problem. But hiring a PI? I remember , as a kid, hearing stories of truant officers trying to get kids into schools, I wonder if the two ever cross paths.
sdtfs | 05.21.08 - 12:00 pm | #

Shnaps writes:
OT:

I can't shill for CFC anymore.

clicking "reply" when he meant to hit "forward," Countrywide Financial Corp. Chairman Angelo Mozilo ignited an online furor

Man, I hate it when that happens. Disgusting.

I thought that was fake, but it did appear in the LAT.
Shnaps | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 12:02 pm | #

JS writes:
Looks like the PPT purchasing S&P futures did the trick for the market again.
JS | 05.21.08 - 12:03 pm | #

joe from chi writes:
Districts from Florida to California are hiring private investigators, creating anonymous tip lines and imposing penalties when they believe people have registered at false addresses. The measures often are spurred by parents who feel they pay a premium in property taxes to get their children into good schools.
--

That is AWESOME! God bless them. Why should I be responsible and pay my bills when the next prick lies and steals and gets the same results?? There has to be SOME law and order in society or it will just fall apart.
joe from chi | 05.21.08 - 12:05 pm | #

rich writes:
>Rich -- Pull it together. If you reside in the district you are paying real estate taxes in one form or another.


People talk about the Texas Mormon story as if it were a rarity or precedent-setting. It's not.

Let's say you are in danger of getting evicted. You squat or let your house run down. Drugs are alcohol are all around the house, and you have minor children.

You will get paid a call from Child Welfare, and if they don't like what they see and smell, your children will soon be gone.

For a time at leaast, children become wards of the state.

They are entitled to a local public education by the district or county that is caring for them. It doesn't matter what happens to the parents, where they move, or whether they pay taxes directly or indirectly.

Once families go into the social services/welfare systems, residency becomes a formality.
rich | 05.21.08 - 12:06 pm | #

TCA writes:
isamu writes:
Funding has nothing to do with the quality of education. That hoary old Liberal myth needs to die already.


How does one go about teaching the sciences without access to funding to purchase equipment that is necessary for teaching the sciences (microscopes, chemicals, computers, specimens, etc.)? I can tell you that mixing an acid and a base produces salt and water, but until you do it yourself you really won't get it. I can show you in a book what a heart looks like, but until you cut open a frog and look at a heart you won't fully understand. I can tell you that two objects will fall at the same rate regardless of their weight, but until you can conduct an experiment in which you can accurately measure this, you probably won't fully believe it.

Education requires money because tools are needed to educate. I'm not going to even go into how teachers are paid a pittance to do what we claim is so important. Why teach science when I can make 4x that amount in engineering? Funding matters.
TCA | 05.21.08 - 12:07 pm | #

Anonymous writes:
Well, if Tanta's kids have the new binders and pens and paper, and then the other students just take it all away on the first day of class - that should be fine right? Not much difference between that and paying an extra 1.8% in property tax Mello Roos every year only for someone else not paying that to go to the school and bump your kid out into a portable or get stuck with outdated textbooks or whatever...
Anonymous | 05.21.08 - 12:07 pm | #

Anon E. Moose writes:
Already happening in Park Slope, Brooklyn. It was probably tougher for people to get their kids registered for school than it was to get their mortgage.

You see, every NYC School kid gets a free pass to ride the busses/subways. So it really doesn't matter if you actually live in teh district you want to send your kids to, you just have to put them on the train in the morning. No hardship to the parents. But, you end up with massive registration fraud to get kids into the successful and desireable school districts -- without all the hastle of paying the premium price for a home in those districts. In response, the districts resort to these tactice to enforce the rules. A stunted system, all to protect the public school mafia from open competition. Way to go, UFT!
Anon E. Moose | 05.21.08 - 12:08 pm | #

Rob Dawg writes:
Education requires money because tools are needed to educate. I'm not going to even go into how teachers are paid a pittance to do what we claim is so important. Why teach science when I can make 4x that amount in engineering? Funding matters. - TCA

I refer everyone who buys the above to: http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web...int.asp? PID=292

Note this 2005 when spending was far lower.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 12:12 pm | #

badger boy writes:
Tca,

I submit to you india and china. They spend a fraction of what we do, yet they produce 10 times the number of engineers.

As a taxpayer, I find fraud appalling. These parents can pay my tax bill. I'd suggest prison or hard labor, but this is more fitting punishment.
badger boy | 05.21.08 - 12:22 pm | #

sanity clause writes:
The key to succesful schools is not having to teach students with disabilities, who can't speak English, who come from broken families, who test poorly etc. etc. etc. Control for that, and all your teachers and administrators will look like geniuses.
sanity clause | 05.21.08 - 12:30 pm | #

django writes:
RE: sterlingerl | 05.21.08 - 11:24 am

Allah bless scAmerica!
django | 05.21.08 - 12:41 pm | #

TCA writes:
badger boy writes:
Tca,

I submit to you india and china. They spend a fraction of what we do, yet they produce 10 times the number of engineers.


True, but the vast majority of Chinese and Indian children receive no education at all. Those nations also each have 4x the population of the USA. Not to mention that many of those students study engineering here in the US. The opposite is not true.

I am NOT an advocate of public education at all. I am simply stating that, ceteris paribus, funding DOES matter.
TCA | 05.21.08 - 12:43 pm | #

Thomas writes:
"$12.3M in up-front savings... but I thought the cost of not educating children was greater... so we'll be paying more than that in the courts, judicial and prison systems, right?"

Not really. Thugs will be thugs, whether they're educated or not. Educate a kid whose parents ignored his character development, and all that's accomplished is he becomes a mortgage broker rather than a small-time burglar.

In other words, you just enhance his ability to steal.
Thomas | 05.21.08 - 12:46 pm | #

Tom writes:
As a guy sitting on a little money I got for pushing a leather sofa out the door of a 1 bedroom condo in early 2007, I have spent a lot of time thinking about how to position myself for "what comes next" in terms of the overall economy, even if that just means holding onto the money (or its value) until I can get back into real estate.

Stories like this one remind me that I have no chance of seeing the particulars before they happen. There was a story last year about West Nile virus spreading due to the lack of swimming pool maintainance in high foreclosure areas.

We know so much about the big picture these days and yet so little about what will actually happen. These may be the years when I finally learn some patience.
Tom | 05.21.08 - 12:46 pm | #

Mike in Long Island writes:
Here's a concept. What if every parent received vouchers equal to their school taxes. Those vouchers could be used to send their children to any school of their choice. Those schools/districts that provided better service/value would see an increase in enrollment along with an increase in funding. Crappy schools/districts would either improve or go away.
Mike in Long Island | 05.21.08 - 12:50 pm | #

Ethan writes:
Our children are grown and out of college, so my wife and I don't "use" the public schools. Why should we pay school taxes?

I mean it's not like the city will decay or have more teen-aged drop outs or fewer young people able to get entry level jobs at Starbucks or Micky D's. Is it?

And even if I stopped paying school taxes, of course the universities would still be able to find qualified applicants to train as engineers, business managers, scientists, etc. Wouldn't they?

I mean our country wouldn't fall apart if we didn't have public education. Would it?

If we didn't educate them so much we would have more American young people who could work as fruit pickers, pool boys, and hotel maids. Wouldn't we?

I think Horace Mann (or whoever) was flat out wrong when he said the public school was one of mankind's greatest inventions.
Ethan | 05.21.08 - 12:50 pm | #

Outsider writes:
School systems trying to root out the unbelongers is actually nothing new. You have a poor inner city next to an affluent suburb, and the parents who value education and know their kids would benefit from a higher caliber of school are of course going to try to get their kids in the neighboring town's schools.

And why not? Often children in poorer cities are trapped. Their parents are poor, they're stuck in a dismal school system, and they don't have the opportunity to get out of the poverty cycle. They can go to college, but when you've had deficient education for 12 years, how easy is that?

There was some sort of lottery situation in an area I lived one time, I believe a certain # of students in poorer school districts were allowed to attend suburban schools. I don't know whether that's a solution or not.

This is just another reason why "walk aways" for most families are a phantom idea -- parents are going to cling to their homes and their good school districts as long as they can, otherwise they have to find cheaper housing in a less affluent school district with lower quality schools. Sure doesn't sound like just an "economic" decision to me.
Outsider | 05.21.08 - 12:58 pm | #

Outsider writes:
Badger Boy - I submit to you india and china. They spend a fraction of what we do, yet they produce 10 times the number of engineers.

And where do all the great ideas and inventions come from? Not those countries. I'm not saying spending is the answer, but neither is ranking according to the number of engineers you educate.
Outsider | 05.21.08 - 1:03 pm | #

4runner writes:
There is no money to help kids stay in (or even get into) a good school district.

There is plenty of money for TAF/loan guarantees/etc.

Who the ___ cares about new desks every two years? Whatever waste exists on the local school district level pales in comparison to the waste on wall street.
4runner | 05.21.08 - 1:15 pm | #

Henry writes:
Tanta, you are a delight.

How do you know that we, the financially "young", are not also in need of education in fiscal wisdom, which we drink up with great relish at your site?

Generosity comes in many, many forms, and you show yours day after day...
Henry | 05.21.08 - 1:21 pm | #

the_economist writes:
Outsider wrote:
And where do all the great ideas and inventions come from? Not those countries.

Most of the development engineers at my company come from those countries. And because of the visa issues, we are spending >1B to build an R&D facility over there(India).
the_economist | 05.21.08 - 1:26 pm | #

Jack writes:
My local elementary school is so crowded that local residents hoping to get into Kindergarten have been camping out two days in advance to get one of the limited spots. If they don't get a spot then they have to go to a school several miles away. In this situation it is not surprising that some effort goes into validating addresses.

However, I don't think that the district is resorting to private investigators.
Jack | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 1:28 pm | #

Brian writes:
Anyone remember the Andrea episode from BH 90210?
Brian | 05.21.08 - 1:55 pm | #

silvertoes writes:
Who invented gunpowder?
silvertoes | 05.21.08 - 2:04 pm | #

Scott writes:
I am kind of supportive of this move; I pay quite a bit in property taxes for one home 'in the city' and also for the rather poorer schools out in the boonies where I actually live.

Since I pay in both places, I fully intend to send any kidlets to the better schools in town. I'm paying for the school systems in both places, and I feel perfectly entitled. I have the option of being up front about this though.

I do like the idea of checking on residency - there is a LONG history of tax-arbitrage with white-flight suburbs. The folks who can afford to move do so - often to a lower tax rate locale - and yet still feed off the public services provided by the higher tax locale.

A nice example: our City Schools have been forced to develop rather good programs for Special Education - in some cases under court order. These are rather expensive systems. There is a nasty tendency for the county school administrators to simply stonewall on providing services - and outwait the parents. The parents eventually cave and send their SPED kids to live with 'relatives' (rather loosely defined) who are inside the city. The children, of course, continue to live at home with Mom (and maybe Dad). City taxpayers get to pick up the tab.

So, yeah, I'm fully supportive of this - screw the county (and their low-tax true believers) - they can pay for the services of the people who live in their districts. If those people don't like the crappy services they get, then they can elect leaders who don't live on low-tax KoolAid and they can pony up for what they consume. This "free lunch" crap - which is the sine qua non of the GOP exurbs - has got to meet up with reality.

I do agree - this residency question should take place at registration - in August - once a year. The kids should stay put for the duration of their year.

LawyerLiz - your secy and you, IIRC, are in the giant Metro-Dade system (like the 3rd largest in the country), so it doesn't really matter in the same way - the schools are all supported by the taxes of everyone in Broward & Dade. That precludes - automagically - the kind of tax arbitrage I'm talking about.

It does not resolve the district boundary/cohort problem - and like everything else out there: garbage in, garbage out - teachers are not miracle workers and all children are hardly equivalent blank slates (inputs into the system).

That is the dirty little secret about "charter" and "private" education and NCLB - the public schools can't just not admit or expel the kids who drag down their numbers (there is no magic writedown for non-performing assets).

Disclosure: I'm a former HS teacher in said (my local) city public schools.
Scott | 05.21.08 - 2:08 pm | #

Markel writes:
My, Tanta, what a record-breaking catch of bloviators you have hooked with this one little post. I never stop marveling at the propensity of Internet commenters to assume that anyone else cares what they think.

I just wanted to point out a delicious observation . We are on the cusp of passing a federal bailout bill to minimize the disruption to foreclosed families the very week this story comes out. Foreclosing is disrupting, but yanking a kid out of school mid-semester isn't? The only distinction I can see is that local school districts aren't run by lenders.
Markel | 05.21.08 - 2:17 pm | #

ex-pat in UK writes:
With a father that was a school superintendent for 40 years I will a couple of comments. He had this same problem. The issue was often students with special needs. They are very expensive relative to other students. The disctrict would work hard to provide good programs for special needs. They would get a reputation, and suddenly there were more kids with special needs. Without some enforcement then you would be taking from the other students. It is a zero sum game. Money spent on one student is less for others.

From a more personal side, we paid more for a smaller house in a good school disctict with high taxes compared to getting more house in a lower tax and more average school district. In that case I am not as sympathetic to cheating the system.

Finally we are in the UK for a few years. The UK has a single system as suggested above where the teachers are paid the same, same curriculum etc. There is a lot wrong with the US system, but you definitely don't want this. The system is really gamed and those with any funds have abandoned it all together.
ex-pat in UK | 05.21.08 - 2:19 pm | #

Meltdown Man writes:
I want my kids to get an Ivy League education...think if I list their address as a campus dorm Harvard would spring for tuition.
Meltdown Man | 05.21.08 - 2:25 pm | #

las writes:
sanity clause writes:
The key to succesful schools is not having to teach students with disabilities, who can't speak English, who come from broken families, who test poorly etc. etc. etc. Control for that, and all your teachers and administrators will look like geniuses.
sanity clause | 05.21.08 - 12:30 pm | #

We have to develop a metric that can convey the amount of learning transmitted, controlling for initial conditions.

Although childless, I don't mind paying taxes to educate kids and their after school programs and libraries. Someone paid to get me educated (sort of). The only thing I couldn't stand was when my school district (an affluent NJ suburb) tried to float the idea that tax payers should purchase a laptop for each child. That we voted down.
las | 05.21.08 - 2:31 pm | #

the_economist writes:
Markel wrote:

I just wanted to point out a delicious observation . We are on the cusp of passing a federal bailout bill to minimize the disruption to foreclosed families the very week this story comes out. Foreclosing is disrupting, but yanking a kid out of school mid-semester isn't? The only distinction I can see is that local school districts aren't run by lenders.

Yawn...boring
the_economist | 05.21.08 - 2:57 pm | #

yogurt writes:
parents are going to cling to their homes and their good school districts as long as they can, otherwise they have to find cheaper housing in a less affluent school district with lower quality schools.

You and everyone else seem to have forgotten the third option, renting in a good school district.
yogurt | 05.21.08 - 3:00 pm | #

anonymous writes:
Brian writes:
Anyone remember the Andrea episode from BH 90210?

Yeah, in fact that was exactly what came to mind! On the one hand, I personally don't distinguish residency fraud from any other kind of fraud - it's intentional deception for personal gain, just like cheating on your income tax or falsifying your income on a mortgage application. It hurts all of the others who play by the rules. On the other hand, how do you look that kid in the eye and tell them that they have to start over somewhere else and that they'll probably never see their friends again?
anonymous | 05.21.08 - 3:14 pm | #

from the side lines writes:
I live in North Palm Beach County with a child in High School. Although she attends the arts magnet our High School, Jupiter High School has been over crowded since the day it open six years ago.

Parents are upset because of the overcrowding. District boundries are being changed on an annual basis.

The next comunity HS is just three miles down the road but draws from a large minority population. Most of the parents that are enrolling their children illegally are upper income. Outside of the two magnet HS, Jupiter HS is the top HS from West Palm Beach to the north end of the county. It is over capacity by more than 1000 kids. In this county home prices are very much dependent on the A rating of your community schools.
from the side lines | 05.21.08 - 4:44 pm | #

Rob Dawg writes:
This "free lunch" crap - which is the sine qua non of the GOP exurbs - has got to meet up with reality.

The data disagree. Nevermind, your claim is being stress tested as we speak. Next up; emergency transit subsidies at the State and Federal levels. These freelunchers as you call them fled the big cities because they were being forced to pay everyone's lunch tab.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 05.21.08 - 5:09 pm | #

pq writes:
Thank God we're crushing the poor/disenfranchised underneath the economic AND educational jackboot of democracy. I can just see the banner: "Snitches: Winning the War Against Children."
pq | 05.21.08 - 6:24 pm | #

Jim A. writes:
Anyone remember the Andrea episode from BH 90210? Well her REAL problem is that she (the actress) was 29 years old and still in H.S.

Of course you can contrast that with the movie The Slums of Beverly Hills, where the family moves from one crappy rental to another after repeated evictions to stay in the Beverly Hills school district. Look we DO have an unfair system, but residency fraud doesn't help it.
Jim A. | 05.21.08 - 6:42 pm | #

Jim A. writes:
...And of course I call Bullshit on the foreclosed upon=homeless assumption in the article. These people are living SOMEWHERE, probably not in a cardboard box.
Jim A. | 05.21.08 - 6:50 pm | #

Yossarian writes:
Markel wrote:

"My, Tanta, what a record-breaking catch of bloviators you have hooked with this one little post."

Geez, Markel, I guess if we let your smugness in, we have to let everyone in.
Yossarian | 05.21.08 - 6:56 pm | #

flaminia writes:
Actually, the GOP exurb crowd fled the cities because they don't like to maintain anything: just build it cheaply, use it up and flee to the next frontier. This is the classic Texas mentality and was also a classic California mentality throughout the 20th Century until we started running out of land. The exurb model is beginning to splutter from increasingly frequent bouts of vapor lock.

"Transit subsidies?" Public transit is a public good, much like public education, paid for by public funds alloyed with a certain proportion of user fees. Transit is not agriculture nor even home ownership. The word "subsidy" has no place next to the word "transit."
flaminia | 05.21.08 - 11:15 pm | #

HK_Vol writes:
This entire thread is why I support school choice. Of course many parents want to send their kids to the best school possible, but aren't allowed for one reason - they're not rich enough to either send their kid to a private school or to afford a home in the right school zone. Every kid should have the OPPORTUNITY to get a good education, and as we all know, some schools just aren't up to the task (i.e. they should be shut down just like a bankrupt company). But to deny a kid a decent opportunity at a good education just because he is poor reeks of elitism. No easy answers, but I think school choice allows parents and kids the opportunity to strive for the best education possible.
HK_Vol | 05.21.08 - 11:39 pm | #

other jim writes:
making a small effort to contain my outrage to the topic as introduced by Tanta...

Schools are kicking out *homeless* students? ... So where are the kids supposed to gain any knowledge, skills, improve talents, etc. all the nonsense that kids "need" to make themselves productive, non-homeless citizens who can pay taxes to support public schools?
other jim | 05.22.08 - 3:34 am | #

rent_to_own writes:
Coming from Northern Virginia, I completely agree with the NoVa comment.

A fascinating comment thread. It seems as if for many commenters, the idea of 'our children' equalling 'our future' has been replaced with 'my children' and 'what future.'

What is most striking is the idea that all children are entitled to an education based on the equal distribution of public funds seems so alien to many commenters.

The public school system as currently available wasn't created for the benefit of your children - it was created for the benefit of your children's future employer.

But now that America no longer feels the need for an industrial workforce (not to mention an educated one), it seems like these 'issues' hinge on two points - making sure I and mine get ours, and making sure the undeserving don't get any.

Which when you think what we are talking about are 7 year olds, or 12 year olds, is pretty stunning. I bet some of you have no problem looking at yourself in the mirror, which is one of those disturbing mysteries of existence which doesn't really get better with age.

You just have to accept the fact that any number of your fellow citizens prefer to blame children for the faults of their parents, than try to ensure that our children grow up to become good parents.

It seems like we have finally figured out a way around that pesky 'corruption of blood' restriction, one that feels morally satisfying to those who believe that punishing children for their parents' acts is the best way to 'form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity....'

Actually, reading that again, no wonder we don't most of our fellow citizens to be educated, as they might start getting ideas above their station. (Especially that part about 'establish justice' - which is what we can only hope that a lying bunch of thugs detailing torture plans in the White House basement in our names will finally receive.)
rent_to_own | 05.22.08 - 7:19 am | #

Paradigm Lost writes:
In reading the above comments, I'm struck by the notion that Americans need a national dialogue on what sort of nation we really want.

Education is a major part of that...it's our future after all. Do we want an elitist structure where the well-heeled say: I got mine, screw you?

Or do we want an educated populace that contributes to society as a whole? Is it not the civic duty of Americans to financially support the educational system, whether we're childless, single or senior?

I recall a time when Americans were thinking differently. We got the GI Bill. The capital we spent was of enormous value to the nation for decades. When did we become so short-sighted & selfish?

America needs re-tooling.
Paradigm Lost | 05.22.08 - 11:14 am | #