Nemo writes:
Temporary pullback.
Nemo | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:22 am | #

Privateer Gerkinov writes:
It's not really surprising, is it?
Privateer Gerkinov | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:22 am | #

Hoopajoops LTD writes:
The decline in consumer credit card liquidity by 45% is this depression's bank failures.
Hoopajoops LTD | 12.01.08 - 10:24 am | #

Nemo writes:
The Fed needs to start buying strip malls. That way they can provide both the credit cards and the place to use them. Problem solved.
Nemo | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:25 am | #

Privateer Gerkinov writes:
I haven't seen anyone threatening to move to Dubai lately, but if that meme is still alive, forget it.

Construction is screeching to a halt and everyone who has money in projects that aren't at least half finished are shitting their dishdashas.
Privateer Gerkinov | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:26 am | #

girlbear writes:
She fought the brave fight.....we will miss you Tanta, Godspeed.
girlbear | 12.01.08 - 10:26 am | #

Lover of Ham writes:
And so we continue...

TSE down a bunch today as well... along with the Canadian banks that had a huge irrational move on Friday..
Lover of Ham | 12.01.08 - 10:27 am | #

nova writes:
I am puzzled. China is contracting far faster than they though it would. They being the Chinese elite not elite. As is the US.

Meanwhile the banks are cutting off millions from the other udder. Momma Bank has buttoned up her blouse and taken away the twin teats of MEW and CC.

Add the US auto makers at a stand-still. How do you think there will be a recovery? Especially in a GDP that is consumer driven?

I thought we has fallen off the cliff, but I think we are just picking up speed for that great leap at the mythical shyhook that we were told would be there.
nova | 12.01.08 - 10:28 am | #

Privateer Gerkinov writes:
I thought we has fallen off the cliff, but I think we are just picking up speed for that great leap at the mythical shyhook that we were told would be there.
nova | 12.01.08 - 10:28 am | #

... and so begins the post faith era.
Privateer Gerkinov | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:32 am | #

Elvis writes:
Somebody better invent something revolutionary fast.
Elvis | 12.01.08 - 10:32 am | #

the_economist writes:
Anecdotal - My BIL is a forman at a large electric co. here in Orlando.
They are working small job and nothing in the pipeline. He is very scared. They have laid off everyone except the formen. Now they are workerbees.

Farwell Tanta, I never saw or touched you, but I defenitely heard you. Sad day.
the_economist | 12.01.08 - 10:36 am | #

safe_as_apartments writes:
Somebody better invent something revolutionary fast.


Already happened: "the hoopajoop".
safe_as_apartments | 12.01.08 - 10:37 am | #

Hoopajoops LTD writes:
I am finding this to be a bit puzzling. How do banks make money if they aren't lending it to people?

I am confused. If the banks need money, can't they just raise our taxes or borrow from our children?
Hoopajoops LTD | 12.01.08 - 10:40 am | #

Lover of Ham writes:
If only there was some kind of synthetic investment derivative that could protect me from a company's default. Some kind of credit default item that I could swap.. Having some kind of investment like that available would effectively remove all risk from the system.. ;P
Lover of Ham | 12.01.08 - 10:41 am | #

Hoopajoops LTD writes:
I have just the thing for you! The Hoopajoop security! We've been going through some revisions of our prospectus, to reflect new risk hedging features of the hoopajoop.

First of all, you don't buy ownership shares in the hoopajoop; thanks to TARP, we have all invested in it.

The portion of the hoopajoop which is invested in a 2x short ETF hoopajoop fund is hedged by the same position, because the hoopajoop short fund is self-hedged by shorts in itself, which in turn are shorted in a subsequent fund that contains the original hoopajoop. This single instrument which is synthetically divided into two halves, each of which shorts the other, can climb to the sky in value in much the same way that two individuals can climb to the heavens by sequentially standing on each other's shoulders, or, in the case of the short fund, by both agreeing to dig a hole at the bottom of a hole the other has dug.
Hoopajoops LTD | 12.01.08 - 10:46 am | #

Tiberius writes:
Down the street they are building a large dementia care center.
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 10:46 am | #

Rob Dawg writes:
We could very well be on the verge of a cliff dive event in both CRE spending and employment. We've pretty much burned through all the buffering factors and I don't see any more free passes. The other thing to worry about is the terms of typical construction loans. Like many CRE builders went short for better rates and are likely running into refinancing issues.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:47 am | #

ac writes:
The Fed needs to start buying strip malls. That way they can provide both the credit cards and the place to use them. Problem solved.

Well it's just debt we owe to ourselves. Not the real thing.

No government has ever failed due to bad promises made to its citizens.
ac | 12.01.08 - 10:49 am | #

JimPortlandOR writes:
Maybe we need to put more strip into strip malls, more grow-lights into hi-rise office buildings, and more homeless into empty condos.

More generally, sex sells, so let's put the unemployed to work in productive feel-good activity. "Honey, I have to stop at the strip mall on the way home from work, so I'll be delayed".
JimPortlandOR | 12.01.08 - 10:57 am | #

John writes:
Interesting article by Meredith Whitney in the Financial Times today on the steps the administration needs to take to keep consumer liquidity flowing.
http://tinyurl.com/6f5zqy

In the article she writes "...I am more bearish today than I have been in the past 18 months."
.
John | 12.01.08 - 10:59 am | #

nades writes:
I expect that non-residential investment will decline sharply over the next year or two.

CR,

Any prediction on how the Obama package might effect this prediction. I know there is infastructure work planned but I never saw the breakout for the numbers.

That being said Large GCs in San Diego are now cutting back work force (field and office). This is after raises had averaged 10%+ YOY for the last 5 years.

.......
nades | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 10:59 am | #

JimPortlandOR writes:
another idea: 'sex stamps' to supplement the food stamps. only wholesome sex on the list of allowed items permitted.
JimPortlandOR | 12.01.08 - 11:00 am | #

Brooster writes:
What's going on with gold today? I just cant believe anymore that this is only the dollar strengthening. If Globex is leveraged as reported, when do we see this bubble burst?

When will paper gold owners want to feel the bars?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/ popu...au24hr3day.html
Brooster | 12.01.08 - 11:00 am | #

nades writes:
Privateer,

Check out this video on Dubi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5...h? v=5LjTWSKbfiU

Talk about a hard landing. 8 to 1 construction worker ratio.

.....
nades | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:01 am | #

Comrade Kristina writes:
What I find astounding is many people are still in complete denial despite the plethra of information readily available to the contrary. I was just on another site where a "what if" type of thread was posted about a Depression. The poster was lambasted as a fear monger, tinfoil hat wearing, fool. Apparently the pain is not yet sufficient for these fools.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:01 am | #

Crewman writes:
They have kicked the can all the way to the corner....One month left and George Bush can walk away and say it was not his fault the country defaults.. January will be awful, GET PREPARED
Crewman | 12.01.08 - 11:02 am | #

Brontide writes:
@Comrade Kristina

What I find amazing is the number of people under 40 who don't have a clue what is even going on.
Brontide | 12.01.08 - 11:03 am | #

wally writes:
Out walking this weekend I was quite surprised to happen on a new development going in about 3/4 mile from my apartment. The underground utilities are in, curbs, one lift of asphalt... the brochures in the box show about 35 to 40 single family lots and say 'build packages available from $800,000'.
"Good luck" is all I have to say.
wally | 12.01.08 - 11:05 am | #

Brooster writes:
Something does not add up, anyway. The discrepancy in too big ... dollar (even only as safe currency) the bailout money, Feds balance sheet, looming CDS market, credit card balloon don't go together.

And things just keep on coming.
Brooster | 12.01.08 - 11:06 am | #

Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke writes:
Banks aren't lending, and their business models are obsolete. They are waiting for those big CDS payoffs, then distributing proceeds and closing doors.
Takin' me ball an' goin' home.
Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke | 12.01.08 - 11:07 am | #

Comrade Kristina writes:
Brontide, I'm not so sure of that. I went to Burger King on my way to work the other day and was shocked to see an all white, 20 and 30 something year old crew working. I would guess working at Burger King is not what they had in mind for themselves.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:09 am | #

newbie 101 writes:
Drudge: 20,000 uniformed military *inside* the U.S. by 2011.
newbie 101 | 12.01.08 - 11:14 am | #

PPT writes:
Obama crowns Hillary, Markets Rally
PPT | 12.01.08 - 11:16 am | #

Interesting Times writes:
OT?

I am still 80% cash. (CDN dollars)

What am I waiting for?
- transparency of the banking system
- government capitulation: "We are done with bailouts"
- real accountability: ceo's in jail
- corruption investigations

Unfortunately, there will be a lot of collateral damage before any of those events occur.
Interesting Times | 12.01.08 - 11:16 am | #

PPT writes:
Comrade Kristina writes:
Brontide, I'm not so sure of that. I went to Burger King on my way to work the other day and was shocked to see an all white, 20 and 30 something year old crew working. I would guess working at Burger King is not what they had in mind for themselves.
----------------

Kristina: maybe they applied the "American Beauty" formula for happiness. Look closer!
PPT | 12.01.08 - 11:16 am | #

PPT writes:
Unfortunately, there will be a lot of collateral damage before any of those events occur.
Interesting Times | 12.01.08 - 11:16 am | #
-------------

Unofrtunately, there's no one of such events likely to occur (except maybe some sort of new "transparency" smokey rule).
PPT | 12.01.08 - 11:18 am | #

Tiberius writes:
Drudge: 20,000 uniformed military *inside* the U.S. by 2011.

Don't we already have far more than that?
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 11:18 am | #

newbie 101 writes:
Tiberius writes:
Don't we already have far more than that?
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 11:18 am | #

*Deployed* inside the U.S.
newbie 101 | 12.01.08 - 11:20 am | #

YLSP writes:
This is a down headfake... we'll see 9k before we get to 8k again.

- Currently channeling PCA
YLSP | 12.01.08 - 11:21 am | #

Catfish writes:
CR

Do you have any graphs of publicly-financed infrastructure spending during this same period? This should be relevant in light of Obama's anticipated stimulus package. My guess is that spending in this sector has been depressed during the Iraq War.
Catfish | 12.01.08 - 11:23 am | #

unhappyCakeEater writes:
funny how folks will ogle a grisly wreck to the point of rear-ending the car in front of them.

I should be out digging that potato patch i keep telling my wife about, instead of watching starvation crest the horizon on CR.
unhappyCakeEater | 12.01.08 - 11:26 am | #

Tiberius writes:
*Deployed* inside the U.S.

What's wrong with the FBI and local swat teams?

Now if they would put these 20,000 on the borders, that would make some sense.
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 11:27 am | #

sanity clause writes:
What would they do on the border? Watch the immigrants leave?
sanity clause | 12.01.08 - 11:28 am | #

Comrade Kristina writes:
What would they do on the border? Watch the immigrants leave?
sanity clause

Nah, they'd keep us from leaving.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:29 am | #

Yancey Ward writes:
It was very sad to read of Tanta's passing. Her analyses of the mortgage business were always a pleasure to read, and I learned a great deal from reading her on a regular basis over the last year and half. Her voice will be missed here.
Yancey Ward | 12.01.08 - 11:29 am | #

Tiberius writes:
What would they do on the border? Watch the immigrants leave?

there is a lot of drug gang activity spilling across the southern border and more in the future.
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 11:30 am | #

Interesting Times writes:
Nah, they'd keep us from leaving.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:29 am | #

"Show me your papers"
Interesting Times | 12.01.08 - 11:30 am | #

YLSP writes:
To be honest I wouldn't mind if our military systematically went after gang members and other elements that are a threat to society.

Of course opening this door, it'll never get shut...
YLSP | 12.01.08 - 11:31 am | #

An American Dope writes:
Hoopajoop,

I am very interested in pouring my life savings and those of other family members into your Hoopajoop investment. Where can I send you a wire transfer?
An American Dope | 12.01.08 - 11:31 am | #

JimPortlandOR writes:
In fact, this NYT report points to a fairly dramatic shift, not only in foreign policy tactics, but also in priorities. Gates and Obama routinely tell the same story: the United States has more members of military marching bands than foreign service officers. It's a shortsighted error both are anxious to correct.


from Steve Benen
JimPortlandOR | 12.01.08 - 11:33 am | #

Send lawyers, guns, and money writes:
"Treasury Secretary Threatens to 'Go Midieval' on US Banks

In an announcement released today, Secretary Paulson threatened to 'go midieval' on major Us Banks if they continue to hoard cash. 'We've got really scary thinigs,' Paulson warned, "prickly, steely, pokey things. And we'll use them. We will' In an unrelated announcement, Paulson responded to criticism for his refusal to lend money to his cousin, Stinky Paulson. 'Lend money? In this economy? Are you kidding?'"
Send lawyers, guns, and money | 12.01.08 - 11:33 am | #

sanity clause writes:
If we're going to pour nonexistent resources into the drug war the FBI needs to do more dealing. Stretch that budget.

You seem to have the right angle Comrade Kristina, but the best places to watch for capital flight should be JFK and Westchester airport.
sanity clause | 12.01.08 - 11:34 am | #

cd writes:
Yslp-
RE:military

How about they go after the mexican cartel meth cooking and 420 growing operations in national forests first..

So I can hike with daughter feeling somewhat safer..I'll handle natures predators...they take care of the other...
cd | 12.01.08 - 11:34 am | #

cd writes:
oil keeps deleveraging today--mr market will be feeling like thnkgiving after seconds...
http://www.livecharts.co.uk/Mark...harts/ crude.php
cd | 12.01.08 - 11:37 am | #

rich writes:
>When will paper gold owners want to feel the bars?

I don't know. But I think we're gonna find out pretty soon.
rich | 12.01.08 - 11:40 am | #

Black Star Ranch writes:
The actions of our military within the US will be the next step of FedGov misuse. THAT will inevitably lead to many chain of command breakdowns - our armed services being told to roundup "those lawless troublemaking demonstrators".
Black Star Ranch | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:42 am | #

mal writes:
Ancient Roman version of mason jar under the bed, discovered in French backyard.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/ a...r_darpajon.html

Translation: Nearly 40.000 Roman coins were found in a garden, in Paris region, close to Arpajon. This treasure was buried at one difficult economic time for the Empire. Explanations of Bruno Foucray, regional conservative of the archaeology of Ile-de-France.

To clean the 80 to 90 kg of copper parts, the archaeologists will need a treatment of mass.

A treasure of coins hidden at the third century of our era was discovered in the Essonne, close to Arpajon, in the garden of a house. Not less than 80 to 90 kilogrammes of parts had been buried towards 280-283 (after JC) in two corpulent ceramics earthenware jars, explained this morning the archaeologists of the Regional management of the cultural affairs (Drac) of Ile de France.

On the whole, two ceramics would contain 30.000 to 40.000 parts, primarily parts of copper containing very little noble metal (less than money 1%). The parts were emitted between 260 and 274, estimate the archaeologists. They go back to one difficult economic period for the Gallo-Roman Empire, specifies Bruno Foucray. “To emit more currencies, the Roman authority exploited the quantity of noble metal”, explains the regional conservative of the archaeology of Ile-de-France. Part of the treasure makes up of antoniniens, of the coins which were in the beginning struck out of money but which, in these crisis periods, contained copper more and more, like those found in Arpajon.

The photo accompanying is worth a look.
mal | 12.01.08 - 11:43 am | #

dryfly writes:
What I find amazing is the number of people under 40 who don't have a clue what is even going on.
Brontide | 12.01.08 - 11:03 am | #

My older son & daughter say the same thing - they are in their early-mid 20s and are shocked their peers are so clueless... even those working AND LAID OFF in the finance industry in NYC. They think - oh well, just go get another good job.

But I reassure them... (1) when I was a 'kid' we didn't understand 'stagflation' until many years afterward and... (2) they will 'understand' this period just as well - many years from now. So until then *ENJOY* your youth!!

dryfly | 12.01.08 - 11:44 am | #

Hoopajoops LTD writes:
I am very interested in pouring my life savings and those of other family members into your Hoopajoop investment. Where can I send you a wire transfer?

There's no need. Check your bank balance.

This investment convenience provided to you by Treasury Secretary Paulson.
Hoopajoops LTD | 12.01.08 - 11:45 am | #

Eric writes:
OK, December panic over....

Santa Claus is coming.... to town!
Eric | 12.01.08 - 11:45 am | #

Hoopajoops LTD writes:
Ancient Roman version of mason jar under the bed, discovered in French backyard.

...

On the whole, two ceramics would contain 30.000 to 40.000 parts, primarily parts of copper containing very little noble metal (less than money 1%).

The other 99% was composed of a highly leveraged metal used for fractional reserve purposes by roman banks...

How apt!
Hoopajoops LTD | 12.01.08 - 11:48 am | #

JP writes:
So until then *ENJOY* your youth!!

As the old saying goes: Youth is wasted on the young.
JP | 12.01.08 - 11:48 am | #

dryfly writes:
In an announcement released today, Secretary Paulson threatened to 'go midieval' on major Us Banks if they continue to hoard cash.

I know that is a 'joke' but it is closer to truth than many realize... review the relationship between 'the sovereign' and his 'subjects' in medieval times... they served at the pleasure of the sovereign.

'We' [via our sovereign] will 'own' many of these banks before this is over.

dryfly | 12.01.08 - 11:51 am | #

nova writes:
If you are under 30 and single I would not be surprised if you did not have a clue. You have to have stuff before you can start worrying about losing it.

I saw that 20,000 troop article. It has been in the works for years. I am not worried. That equals a heavy division or maybe 3 regiments? Not counting the support tail.

They could not lock down one mid-size city with that many troops.
nova | 12.01.08 - 11:51 am | #

PeakVT writes:
We need more talk of mustard seeds around here.
PeakVT | 12.01.08 - 11:51 am | #

Dirk writes:
newbie 101 writes:
Tiberius writes:
Don't we already have far more than that?
Tiberius | 12.01.08 - 11:18 am | #

*Deployed* inside the U.S.
newbie 101 | 12.01.08 - 11:20 am | #

Yeah, deployed at fort Drum, Camp LeJune, Write Patterson AF base etc. Drudge is a world class nut job if he thinks that troops will be on the streets. Heck he has already proved that he is a world classs nut job several times before. Just about as much cred as Rush
Dirk | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:52 am | #

Outsider writes:
The Fed needs to start buying strip malls. That way they can provide both the credit cards and the place to use them. Problem solved.

And when that fails, voila - public housing.
Outsider | 12.01.08 - 11:53 am | #

yagij writes:
Black Star Ranch writes:
THAT will inevitably lead to many chain of command breakdowns - our armed services being told to roundup "those lawless troublemaking demonstrators".
Black Star Ranch | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:42 am
---
I'm not throwing on a red "A" just yet, but that sentiment has been posted places--including CR--over the past week or two, and to be honest, the lack of public awareness of this troop movements or "contingency plans" scares me more than the current fumbling & bumbling of our Goofs-in-Chief. I believe that there was even a comment about someone having a conversation with a Navy SEAL and being told that there is no amount of arming of the militia that could protect them if the US gov't wanted to decapitate any "domestic movement".

* Do I doubt in the slightest that that fact is true? Not really. I've talked to various US special forces folk, and they all pretty much say the same thing.

* Do I wonder if they will be willing to reject a command when they are told to scurry around a US city like it was Iraq or Afghanistan? I would hope not, but having feral aspects of the US Military is one of those thoughts that even I try to avoid.

Seriously, don't we still have 100k+ active troops on stand-by on US mainland soil?
yagij | 12.01.08 - 11:53 am | #

scav writes:
angry enough to spit - but not that surprised.

AP IMPACT: US diluted loan rules before crash
scav | 12.01.08 - 11:54 am | #

dryfly writes:
Drudge is a world class nut job

Yes.

dryfly | 12.01.08 - 11:54 am | #

nades writes:
I can definitely say that everyone I know between the age of 25-35 (about 50 people) doesn't know whats going on.

Whats more most have not changed any of their consumption patterns. Mostly because none of them have been effected yet, nothing. Yea the 401ks got whacked but we're not getting them for another 30 years and there wasnt much there to begin with. Thats the only thing they've felt...

.........
nades | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:55 am | #

Comrade Kristina writes:
Dirk, this story has been out for quite some time, Army Times originally posted it. It is a big deal in that it very well may violate posse comitatus. The troops sole purpose is to be on standby for civil unrest or national emergency situations. I am no lover of Drudge BTW I'm just saying it is a big deal to some who value our Constitution and are growing weary of watching it get trampled upon by the current herd of vermin occupying the WH.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:55 am | #

Ancient Chinese Secret writes:
FYI:

19,000 WaMu Employees Will Be Synergized Out Of A Job

"Up to 19,000 employees of Washington Mutual face being laid off this weekend as JPMorgan Chase turns up the synergy on its recent acquisition.
On Friday, JPMorgan Chase said it expects to retain the 22,000 employees who work at Washington Mutual branches and 2,000 workers in the mortgage and wealth management divisions in California, spokesman Tom Kelly told Forbes.com. The company has not yet determined the total numbers to be cut in other states, but it planning to inform all former WaMu employees of their job status by Monday."

That is going to put a hole in the Seattle housing market. IMO we are seeing the end of about a 15 yr growth cycle for the Puget sound metro area. If you look at national companies with major HQ/ops in Seattle area such as Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, WaMu, Amazon, Safeco, Nordstrom and others the majority benefited from or helped drive the national economy during this period. Now we're seeing most of them taking serious hits from this national downturn. I expect economic stagnance to last for several years in the Pacific NW.
Ancient Chinese Secret | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 11:57 am | #

Mostly Lurker writes:
I'm 31, hubby is 32, and we're quite aware of what's going on even though we're in relatively recession-proof industries/region of the US. however, we're already cheapskates so this doesn't change a lot right now (aside from starting a garden in the spring)
Mostly Lurker | 12.01.08 - 11:59 am | #

JimPortlandOR writes:
"Honey, guess what? I've been synergized".

"Take two aspirin and go to bed. You'll feel better in the morning"
JimPortlandOR | 12.01.08 - 11:59 am | #

nova writes:
"Honey, guess what? I've been synergized".

Well mister - your sleeping on the couch then.
nova | 12.01.08 - 12:02 pm | #

yagij writes:
Comrade Kristina writes:
It is a big deal in that it very well may violate posse comitatus.
Comrade Kristina | 12.01.08 - 11:55 am
---
I believe the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 addressed these changes to the Posse Comitatus Act, and one of my bigger reasons to gnash my teeth at the Republicans--our "small gov't party"?--are for all of these big domestic changes to our institutions. **

Referring to the troop assignment (taken from Wikipedia):
On October 1, 2008, the US Army announced that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command (NORTHCOM), as an on-call federal response force for natural or man-made emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.
yagij | 12.01.08 - 12:02 pm | #

rps writes:
"but which, in these crisis periods, contained copper more and more, like those found in Arpajon" Mal

Lucky them, more copper.
Fun facts on the debasement of the US penny:
Following is a brief chronology of the metal composition of the cent coin (penny):
The composition was pure copper from 1793 to 1837.
From 1837 to 1857, the cent was made of bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc).
From 1857, the cent was 88 percent copper and 12 percent nickel, giving the coin a whitish appearance.
The cent was again bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc) from 1864 to 1962.
(Note: In 1943, the coin's composition was changed to zinc-coated steel. This change was only for the year 1943 and was due to the critical use of copper for the war effort. However, a limited number of copper pennies were minted that year. In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc.
The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). Cents of both compositions appeared in that year.
rps | 12.01.08 - 12:03 pm | #

irreverent writes:
Breaking news: Henry "Hank" Paulson says he's sorry
Hank Paulson announced today at the Treasury Building that he is very sorry. Hank said, "I'm very, very sorry about everything, particularly the 401k's."
irreverent | 12.01.08 - 12:04 pm | #

Fair Economist writes:
Part of the treasure makes up of antoniniens, of the coins which were in the beginning struck out of money but which, in these crisis periods, contained copper more and more, like those found in Arpajon.

Copper coins, eh? I guess the problem of what to do with worthless pennies isn't new. At least I don't have tens of thousands - I might have to bury them in the backyard too if I did.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 12:12 pm | #

OnTheRun writes:
If the equities markets are forward looking, it seems to me at this point there is not a whole lot to look forward to.
OnTheRun | 12.01.08 - 12:12 pm | #

Gavshire Hathaway writes:
nades writes:
I can definitely say that everyone I know between the age of 25-35 (about 50 people) doesn't know whats going on.
----------------------------------------
I'm 27 and "get it". But when I try to talk about the situation with peers I get labeled a pessimist. But lately people are actually listening and soliciting me for my views.

But you're mostly correct -- I haven't found another in my age group that fully understands what is happening.
Gavshire Hathaway | 12.01.08 - 12:16 pm | #

Wyoming writes:
Nova "I saw that 20,000 troop article. It has been in the works for years. I am not worried. That equals a heavy division or maybe 3 regiments? Not counting the support tail."

that would be 3 brigades. 20,000 troops would be about 10 regiments
Wyoming | 12.01.08 - 12:19 pm | #

Sebastian writes:
Comrade Kristina said: "What I find astounding is many people are still in complete denial despite the plethora of information readily available to the contrary. I was just on another site where a "what if" type of thread was posted about a Depression. The poster was lambasted as a fear monger, tinfoil hat wearing, fool. Apparently the pain is not yet sufficient for these fools."

I've worked my way through denial and into acceptance, but I'm still feeling zero pain. In fact, just the opposite.

I'm finding deals on things I want to buy and I've got a couple of hundred extra dollars *per month* in disposable income just from the drop in gasoline prices.


Sebastian
Sebastian | 12.01.08 - 12:22 pm | #

TM writes:
I was thinking about this the other day, and I'd like to hear some thoughts:

What's the possibility that banks stop accepting account transfers altogether, on the basis that there is no actual cash or collateral backing the bits and bytes moving from one bank to the next? Could banks become so worried about being able to satisfy cash demands of their deposit base, they would stop accepting non-physical cash deposits? If I move a one million dollar account from Bank A to Bank B, then, technically, Bank B suddenly must be prepared to produce one million dollars in cash on demand (or within a reasonable amount of time).

I dunno. I suppose this is in left field, and I'm sure there's a good reason banks would never refuse an account transfer, but is there a scenario in which they would?
TM | 12.01.08 - 12:22 pm | #

Rev. Elmer Gantry writes:
NBER: Recession started December 2007 -

what? we are in a recession?

How? Why? What? When?

:p
Rev. Elmer Gantry | 12.01.08 - 12:26 pm | #

TM writes:
Seb -

Good points.

It all depends on how someone is positioned going into a deflationary environment. Those who lived prudently and have ample cash are going to make out like bandits. Anyone whose lifestyle relies on credit is going to be belt tightening. In the big scheme, this is a massive correction being visited upon people who didn't have legitimate power to spend as much as they did. There will of course be many people who will benefit handsomely from cheaper prices and personal cash stability...
TM | 12.01.08 - 12:27 pm | #

Brontide writes:
@Sebation

Since you are the eternal optimist you probably think we are 1 year into an 18 month recession. You are using your cash to buy into the market and other investment vehicles expecting things to pick up any day now.

Do you really think that this will be a simple recession?
Brontide | 12.01.08 - 12:33 pm | #

Sebastian writes:
Brontide said: "Since you are the eternal optimist you probably think we are 1 year into an 18 month recession. You are using your cash to buy into the market and other investment vehicles expecting things to pick up any day now.

Do you really think that this will be a simple recession?

Clearly, I have no idea.:) However, life goes on regardless of how long the recession lasts or how deep it gets.

As the poster above pointed out, people who are well-positioned (employed, money in the bank, debt under control) will do well and others who are poorly-positioned won't.


Sebastian
Sebastian | 12.01.08 - 12:54 pm | #

some investor guy writes:
CR, check out this chart, http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-v...-h/Nomura- 6.png

If looking for parallels between the Japanese real estate bust and the one in the US, this is very interesting. Japanese GDP continued to grow, even as real estate prices tanked. People saved more money as real estate prices dropped.
some investor guy | 12.01.08 - 2:53 pm | #