Roundtable
I'm stunned at your frivolous use of the word genocide. By your gorilla math, Turks killed 3.5 million Greeks, Armenians and Kurds. What the heck is "ethnic genocide"? You are clearly not a friend of Turkey, and your verbal assault upon anything and everything Turkish, has been duly noted. All of those who tried to destroy Turkey- Greeks, Armenians, Kurds- all of them are complicit and all of them failed. You conveniently leave out the fact that Turkey was fighting for survival on three fronts. The Treaty of Sevres was effectively an extermination of Turkey- a Turkish genocide. That we fought back and won and survived [the Treaty of Lausanne]is a jagged pill to swallow, especially for those who believed that they succeeded in their land-grabbing. Such a rude awakening- one minute you've fallen ass-backwards into premium real estate, the next you're out on the street, running for your life. All of the hatred directed towards Turkey is understandable, if you're a six year old child I guess. Well it's a brutal truth that the currency of controlling territory, of defining borders, is force. Clearly, Turks were flush with enough strength and unity to repel the forces which aimed to destroy them. Why is survival against such odds so hard to accept? Why is it mis-construed as some sort of reckless extermination? The cancerous elements inside of Turkey needed to be removed, in order for survival. Do you deny that Turkey was being picked apart like over-cooked chicken? With our 20/20 hind-sight, do you see any alternative approach to ensuring Turkey's survival? Perhaps it would have pleased the world if Turks simply rolled over and played dead, guaranteeing their elimination. You can cast aspersions all you want, deep down you know [if you've read anything other than anti-Turkish propaganda] that what Turkey faced and what Turkey overcame, was the same as any other country would have tried to do under the same set of circumstances. As I said, your diatribe against Turkey is astonishing, and reeks like the tripe you've been fed on such matters.
What the heck is "ethnic genocide"?
Well it is a genocide of a racial group, not a religious group.
I'm stunned at your frivolous use of the word genocide.
Well, actually, the vast majority of modern scholars now agree that an Armenian genocide took place. See here for a modern debate on the subject.
By your gorilla math, Turks killed 3.5 million Greeks, Armenians and Kurds.
The figures on Greek deaths were taken from a Kurdish source, as was the claim about 1 million Kurds being killed. The figure of 1.5 million Armenians is pretty well attested.
You are clearly not a friend of Turkey
No I am not! Actually I despise Turkey, all the way from the evil Ottoman Empire up til the present day. Not only that, but I dislike most Turkish people. However, I do like some of them, esp the radical Left like Devrimci Sol, etc. The Leftists are the only Turks who are with the Kurds and against Turkish fascism. So not all Turks are bad. But Turkish culture is just rotten evil and it needs to be wiped out.
and your verbal assault upon anything and everything Turkish
Well everything tied in with modern Turkish volkisch organic primordial ethnic nationalist facsism, sure!
All of those who tried to destroy Turkey- Greeks, Armenians, Kurds- all of them are complicit and all of them failed.
How did they try to destroy Turkey? I realize that I have not yet heard a good analysis of the Turkish argument you give me in this thread, and I am looking for one. The Armenians and the Kurds are not necessarily very honest about this matter, and Greek ethnic nationalism is almost as bad as Turkish. I really want to study your argument a lot more, if only to take it apart.
The Treaty of Sevres was effectively an extermination of Turkey- a Turkish genocide.
How? By severing off Kurdistan? Big deal! Who has claims on any other part of Anatolia?
That we fought back and won and survived [the Treaty of Lausanne]is a jagged pill to swallow, especially for those who believed that they succeeded in their land-grabbing.
Why? Because your vile, filthy, disgusting, evil Ottoman Empire got smashed to bits? Good!
All of the hatred directed towards Turkey is understandable, if you're a six year old child I guess.
Any modern anti-racist, anti-fascist and opponent of ethnic nationalism would despise such a rancid state. Any Leftist, really? Which is why the Left hates Turkey so much...
Well it's a brutal truth that the currency of controlling territory, of defining borders, is force.
Now you are making sense. Nation-building through blood, like the Armenians, Greeks, Israelis and Kurds you so despise.
Clearly, Turks were flush with enough strength and unity to repel the forces which aimed to destroy them.
Really? Then why did the Ottoman Empire get smashed to bits?
The cancerous elements inside of Turkey needed to be removed, in order for survival.
Fascists always say this. Study history.
Do you deny that Turkey was being picked apart like over-cooked chicken?
I know nothing about it, except that Armenia and Kurdistan would have had rights to break away and form their own states in Anatolia. Is that what you mean?
With our 20/20 hind-sight, do you see any alternative approach to ensuring Turkey's survival?
I honestly do not have any good rejoinders to your pan-Turkish line here, and I really want to talk to someone. I would talk to an Armenian scholar, but I am afraid they could not be rational.
Perhaps it would have pleased the world if Turks simply rolled over and played dead, guaranteeing their elimination.
You do not think a Turkish state in Anatolia would have remained, minus Pontia, Armenia and Kurdistan?
To be quite honest with you sir, your enemies share this very same volkisch, Nazi-like, fascist, primordialist, organic ethnic nationalism. Yes, the Greeks, the Kurds and even the Armenians. The Persians, the Israelis and the Arabs have the same affliction. I hate it! I hate all of it! I hate it anywhere on the Earth it shows its ugly volkisch face. And I do wish to research your side of the story, because the questions about your side of the story have not been answered well.
Dear Robert Lindsay,
This is what you say: "But Turkish culture is just rotten evil and it needs to be wiped out."
You do know that no one will ever take you seriously don't you? I guess that's why you call yourself an 'Independent Left Journalist From California'?
Please. Get real, and get a real job.
Yes we need to get rid of Turkey's rotten ethnic nationalist fascist culture. We need to get rid of it - same way we got rid of fascism in Europe after the 1940's in many countries, same way we got rid of apartheid South Africa, same way Castro got rid of the US colony called Cuba...ok?
As far as the rest of Turkish culture, other than the volkisch Nazi-like primordialist facsist stuff, I assume there is a lot of valuable stuff there. I am not talking about getting rid of Turkish architechture, coffee, food, clothing, rugs, language, etc. Sorry for the misinterpretation. It's the organic ethnic nationalism that is evil about Turkish culture; the rest is just like any other culture - mostly ok.
I only have two words for the so called "American Turks" - Fuck You!
Hi American. Well, I sort of tend to agree with you on that one, but I'm not supposed to say it on the blog. I think he and the rest of the Turkish nationalists need to look long and hard at this vicious nationalism they have gotten themselves into.
boehh hooehh..You Americans are the most hypocorit people on the surface of this planet..Technichly you're not even a people just 400 milyon fortune seekers all around the world....There are nations and peoples how ecxisted over thousand of years but the US only 200 years old is the nation how has the most innocent blood on his hand...You've letterly incstincted the Indians,killed milyons of people just to garantee you're so called security and to protect you're oil prices...So shutta fuck up about the Turks and try to look at your self in a mirror..You're the son of the biggest murderer ever lived on this planet...The Turks are just to civilized to remind you of that fact...The only rotten "people" en civilizations is the one you live in every day...try living with that bagage...
ps:The only native Americans are the Indians..They are the only Americans..The rest of you are the so called ".... Americans"
I really enjoyed reading your blog, i have read many of your other blogs and this would have to be my fav ( kinda biased:P). Its amazing how turkish people can still say there never killed anyone, hopefully justice will be brought to the Turkish goverment and the middle east will be one step closer to peace.
Good bye and may peace be with you.
Thx, Kurd, I sure appreciate seeing you on here. I get tired of these Turkish nationalists real fast. They are about the lowest of the low. Victory to the PKK!
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