Newshoggers Comments
is this not treason?
republicans are scheming little monkeys.
trea‧son:–noun
1.the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
I think the right-wing blogs have officially crossed the line. Round 'em up and send 'em to Gitmo!
Those advocating a coup are traitors to the constitution. They should be turned over the the FBI.
They are criminals who would subvert the Constitution and destroy America.
What a load of hot air! If it ever came to the point where Bush and Cheney were in danger of losing their seats, Cheney would resign and Bush would appoint a Republican who would be 2nd in line.
Besides, it wouldn't be the first coup - see Florida, 2000...
Remember, these types are ultimately cowards, when confronted they usually back peddle while trying to restate/reformulate what they "actually" meant. Personally, I wouldn't lose sleep over these assholes lunacy.
At least if they are to last past the beginning. The problem for the extreme right, although they don't realize it, is that the vast majority of Americans do not support the things they stand for. There is something like 100 million guns in America. No army in the world could hope to control the American population without their consent.
America cannot even control Iraq. Why? No consent. Now Republicans have enjoyed six years of leadership in America, but it was a leadership based entirely on lies. Americans may be slow to awaken, by I think that this latest election reflected the voice of an aroused population, and had it not gone this way, a probable second revolution.
America is a Liberal country, has always been a Liberal country, and will likely always be a Liberal country. Smear the label of Liberal all you like, a rose is still a rose, by any other name.
Treason, in the United States, is most clearly committed by the act of subverting the Constitution.
The President and Congress are NOT, as the president frequently says, sworn to protect the American people. They are sworn (literally, take an oath) to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
Since, instead, they have done everything in their power to create a unitary executive (doublespeak for "dictator"), the president and his supporter in Congress are guilty of treason. This includes Democrats who supported suspension of habeas corpus (allowable only in case of invasion or rebellion), and those who supported warrantless wiretapping (a violation of inalienable rights) —which are granted by "our Creator" and cannot legally be taken away by this or any government.
The history of the twentieth century was one of liberal democracies, at the cost of millions of lives, waring against right wing led dictatorships. It would be truly horrible to begin the twenty first century that way. However the preservation and spread of true democracy would seem to be worth the continued sacrifice.
We're probably safe, since the most rabid wingnuts are the same people that put the term "chicken" in "chickenhawk".
Besides, the Carlyle crew realize just how unprofitable such a scenario would be for them. The intelligent predator protects its prey. To start using draconian tactics on the general population would not pay off.
On the other hand, the Cheneyburton Corporation and its allied private security firms stand to lose a lot of money if Rumsfeld's Long War ends.
Plus, they've got all those prison camps, which make a lot of money for them abroad, and potentially, nationwide.
The Constitution will probably contimue to stand- as long as there's a profit in it for the world's largest private equity group.
This is the classic definition of sedition:
Sedition is a term of law to refer to covert conduct such as speech and organization that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often included subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.
Sounds like these folks are guilty of sedition at the very least.
Where is the House Un-American Activities Committee when you need them. Do you now or have you ever advocated the overthrow of the United States Government? Sheesh.
I blame newt.
Lots of folks on the right will cite american muslims who criticize Israel as potential terrorists who should be investigated. In England it is grounds for deportation.
Republicans paint all democrats as terrorists, judges as fascists, and planned parenthood as mass murderers. Is it anywonder that republicans bomb abortion clinics, oklahoma federal buildings, olympics and now right wing bloggers get caught sending fake anthrax?
Modern Republican demagoguery breeds terrorists.
For the record, no previous president in a time of war, not FDR, LBJ, or even Nixon ever called the opposition traitors.
Rule of thumb - any time you hear a moonbat GOPstapo member screeching about something, whether it be ethics, protecting children, upholding the constitution or securing the nation, you can pretty well bet the farm that they are going about doing the exact opposite. You need look no further than Tom DeLay, Duke Cunningham and Mark Foley for my point to be made. Openly advocating treason in the name of fighting imaginary traitors only serves to further highlight their religiously fueled insanity. Nutbags one and all.
Q1: Do you really think our withdrawal from Iraq will not be taken by the world as a victory for the Jihadists?
Q2: What war in history has EVER been won by withdrawal?
Bithead,
Q1 I think it will be difficult for the Jihadis to claim anything when the Sunnis have hung them all from trees in Anbar - which will happen about five minutes after U.S. troop presence no longer presents a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation for the Sunnis.
Q2 The U.S. cannot "win" the occupation in Iraq. It isn't a war. Maybe if you and the rest of the uber-right weren't so intent on emulating the Light Brigade those resources could be put to better use elsewhere, like the Afghan/Pakistan border where Al Qaeda already has all the safe haven it needs, courtesy of Bush's pal Musharraf.
I notice, however, you're not taking time here to deny you would prefer a Republican coup against the democratic process, which is where your rhetoric about Democrats being "enemies of the state" (quoted in the post) logically leads. Nice.
Regards, Cernig
I think it will be difficult for the Jihadis to claim anything when the Sunnis have hung them all from trees in Anbar - which will happen about five minutes after U.S. troop presence no longer presents a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation for the Sunnis.
Interesting conjecture.
BAsed on.... what? Is it based on the same delusional thinking that led you to believe that the republicans are about to execute a coup?
Please. Spare me.
as for the phrase enemies of the state, you may notice that I was careful to avoid overuse of it. Mostly, because I don't consider the state to be the end all and be all as some do. Now were you two more correctly say enemies of the people themselves, that may be another issue.
Tell me; Were you ask concerned when we started hearing cries about 'killing Republicans"?
Forgive me if I fail to be impressed.
What no one has mentioned is that the military loathes Bush. To think they would participate in a coup to install him as a dictator is ludicrous.
"Of course, part of the answer is grounded in blind partisan loyalty that sees the Republicans as somehow the sole keepers of defense and security"
Works for me. I'd like to see every one of these wormy, little warmongering fascist Neocon bastards pulling night patrol through the alleys of Baghdad on a private's pay. On foot.
Bithead,
In reverse order:
1) Nice strawman, taking me to task for something I didn't write in response to my taking you to task for something you did write. You want me to condemn anyone calling for the shooting of Republicans? Easy. Yes I do. Follow the rule of law and the legal process. For the Bush admin. leaders, that means either impeach or allow an other nation to use universal jurisdiction to prosecute their war crimes.
NOW do we get your condemnation of those who want to execute Dems on TV or set up death squads to shoot lefties?
2) You show poor reading comprehension. I didn't say Republicans were planning a coup, I said that elements of the extreme Republican right would like to see one and that more moderate and sane Republicans are trying to point out to them that their rhetoric is both insane and damaging to their party.
3) Evidence for the short life expectancy of A-Q in Iraq after the Sunnis only reason for tolerating them is removed:
here, here and here.
Now...where's your proof that Iraqi Sunnis will accept a Jihadi caliphate which is against their tradition of being the most secular Sunni moslems in the region? Or is it just faith-based delusion again?
-Cernig
While such talk worries me a little, I've seen it plenty of times before. I've heard this kind of rhetoric on both ends. Personally I'm sick and tired of listening to extremists act as if the sky is falling because their side takes a hit. Everytime I see snide comments, rude and condescending remarks, and high and mighty questions for which the answer is either simple or immensely complicated, I can't help it, my eyes roll so hard it hurts.
Neither side has all the answers, or is the best at everything. It's not the end of the world when Dems. and Reps. get replaced by the other side. They and we are all people, let's act like it, and treat them and each other as such. Get this through your head! Everybody! They are not sinless saints, or pure evil incarnate... they... are... people! All you can do, is keep them honest. When they vote a way you think is wrong let them know about it. If they don't measure up to the opposition when they're running for office, vote for the better one.
People who paint everything and everyone with such large and wide brushes can't color inside the lines worth a dam. You learn how to do that in kindergarten! Take time to notice not everyone in that party is the same. There's moderates on both sides, and extremes on both sides.
I'd love to see the chickenhawk right wing in this country attempt to perpetrate a coup. They couldn't even be bothered to get off their asses to go spread imperialism in Iraq! A coup would be, y'know, dangerous and stuff. Someone might throw rocks. Or bullets. They're good at one thing - talking shit. And they're not even particularly good at that, if you like side-orders of coherence or reason with your shit-talking.
And if the far right thinks the MILITARY would actually help them after being forced into this Iraq fiasco against their own better judgment, I say let 'em think just that. Oh, this is going to be funny. I really hope they do try it.
I am one heavily armed liberal. Started buying guns when Nixon was elected the second time and the rumor was he was sprucing up the old internment camps used to jail Japanese-Americans during WWII. Probably not true, but it sounded all too likely at the time. If these assholes try such a thing, well, they'll be ducking bullets in no time at all. Read "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or "The Poor Man's James Bond" for how to build the tools of resistance. And resist!
...Vote Republican, stay the course, and fight the war of terror over there. Vote Democrat, withdraw from Iraq, and fight the war of terror here...
WTF?
1,890 days since WMD said he'd catch Weekend at Osama's 'Dead or Alive!' Have you forgotten?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten, when those towers fell
We had neighbors still inside goin through a livin hell And you say we shouldn't worry bout Bin Laden Have you forgotten?
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
The echo chamber has begun to reverberate on it's own. The hate and vitrol that the right has cooked up to mobilize it's base is a danger to the security of the United States and its Constitution. If civil war was to happen again in this country I feel the results would be the same, the Northern Liberal and Coastal Blue states would whupp the
Neo Confederacy, since A. we have more people, B we have more money. C. World support, certainly that of Europe would side with the progressive and not the fear mongering anti-everyone red staters. I say in the words of our Dear Leader, Bring it on!
The first right-winger that kicks down my door is in for a nasty surprise.
Of course, this is not going to happen because the military does not like Bush... And the right-wing chickenhawk wankers that fantasize about civil war will crap their pants when they realize that not all Dems are pacifists.
Treason is specifically defined in the U.S. constitution. Article III section 3:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
It isn't talking about what you would like to do to the opposition party, nor is it advocating violence against said party. the latter of those two could be considered a crime, probably inciting violence, if the it were specific enough, but not as it stands in the comments quoted above.
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