+J.M.J+
All right, he's got me curious: What did Fr. Groeschel say???
In Jesu et Maria,
Shell-out about 25 bucks and you can find out. It's four tapes, so I presume Fr. Groeschel said a lot.
Well thank goodness that's cleared up! Cardinal McCarrick didn't know! Whew. What a relief! Washington is once again safe for glad handing at the Red Mass. . . . You know I didn't get what the problem was to begin with? So they had a meeting, at which the Cardinal solicited their opinions, maybe leading them to believe they'd have disproportionate influence (and then, clam up). How's that any different than, say, outreach to VOTF? When I read the hyperventilating first account, I couldn't help myself think the main problem DH had was that he wasn't invited. . . .
The meeting has caused me to lose a bit of confidence (what confidence I did have) in Bishop Gregory. Why waste your time listening to hetereodox Catholics whine and bitch? There is a real problem in the Church. Use your ordination graces and fix it. If you want ideas, go to faithful Catholics.
Where's the link?
subscribers to crisis get a weekly email from Deal, for some reason, I get three. they do have this link:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/pr...om/
products.htm
I want to know what the grey Friar has to say too!
Intersting that S.F. seems to take the Boston Globe's word of what happened over that of Deal Hudson.
"Your Excellency, would you like to attend a meeting of Catholic business leaders to speak informally and confidentially about the current situation in the Church?"
"Buzz off. I'm already using my ordination graces to fix it."
"Tom Monaghan will be there."
"Oh, okay, sign me up."
The tapes should prove to be interesting, especially from Fr. Groeschel, as he has spoken and written a lot regarding the crisis in the Church.
I look forward to hearing it.
Mark,
Are you advertising for Deal now? You should get a commission! For every person who buys the "Groeschel Tapes" from Crisis Magazine after reading your post, you should get at least $5. Tell Deal to send you the money via your PayPal link... 
I just publish his letters now and then when they have something of interest to me.
Doesnt surprise me that the Bishops like to wine and dine the heterodox of the land. When you have people like Cardinal Mahoney in key positions, there's clearly something awry in the hierarchy.
Hudson's flippant dismissal of the TNR article is ridiculous. Anyone who read the article knows that whatever her agenda is she may have a case. It deserves to be fairly critiqued. I've lost a lot of respect for Hudson.
Peace, all.
I heard a lot more caterwauling from MaChurch orthodoxy on the Secret Meeting than from the last five years of progressive cocktail parties. McCarrick didn't leave when he had the chance; do some hypertraditionalists still consider him tainted? Maybe he was upset the food wasn't too good.
Maybe Deal should call his own meeting. He can call it the Double Dog Dare Secret Meeting and trump all those east'rn Catlick perfessers.
As an Australian I deeply resent, protest, and declare myself to be hurt, victimised, stereotyped, and deprived of civil rights by, Ms Fredriksen's actions in titling her TNR article "Mad Mel". For decades we have been struggling against perceptions that my country is a radioactive wasteland where we all go about wearing leather straps and with crossbows mounted on our wrists -- and now her article has undone all that good work.
It seems, Australians have their self haters too. Ridiculing Mel is a nasty, underhanded but patently obvious attempt to belittle his film about the Passion of Jesus. How progressive!
What's a "hypertraditionalist?"
Tom:
When I come to Australia in Autumn 2004, should I wear my loincloth or the bearskin? I'm always bad at these sartorial choices. You're the expert. What do you think?
Tom,
I'm not against the bishops discussing issues with lay Catholics. But why in secret? Why with dissidents? Listening to a bunch of wealthy dissidents bitch and moan about how their lesbian daughter will never be ordained isn't going to help the problem. If certain bishops don't know that, that's very scary.
Tom,
Another point. Why don't the bishops meet with the not-so-wealthy laity on occassion? If they know anything about the members of the Church here in the USA, surely they must know of faithful Catholics on the Internet like Mark Shea and Amy Welborn. Surely they know of apostolates such as Catholic Answers and Envoy. There are hundreds and thousands of faithful Catholics out there who have ideas about what needs to be done. In the age of the Internet, it's not hard to find them. What chance is there that Mark, Amy, Scott Hahn, Karl Keating, etc etc will be invited to a secret or not-so-secret meeting with the bishops to discuss the sex-abuse crisis? Who do you think has better ideas and cares more about the Church? These people or dissident professors and liberal businessmen?
It just adds to the general feeling that many of our bishops have no clue how to relate to normal everyday Catholics. As has been the case through much of Church history, our bishops are more comfortable hob-knobbing with "the Elite" than they are with lower and middle class faithful Catholics. Seems strange to me.
S.F.
I *highly* doubt any bishop has ever heard of me. Can't speak for the others (though I'm pretty sure the y know who Scott is), but I don't move in those circles. I've met my own bishop once, as he was exiting a building. He said, "Hi." (Oh, and I talked to his assistant bishop at my son's Confirmation for a second.) I'd be amazed if any member of the American hierarchy beyond the bishop of Kalamazoo (who I talked to for about 30 seconds once) would have the slightest idea who I was. I agree though that endless consultation with the High and Mighty can tend to skew results.
S.F.,
Again, you uncritically accept the Globe's interpretation of what happened -- that Cardinal McCarrick hosted a secret meeting of bishops and liberal Catholics that included discussions on married and women priests -- and seem to ignore what Deal Hudson reports -- that the cardinal was invited to an informal and confidential meeting, with no input on who was and wasn't invited, and unhappy with both the guest list and the meeting itself.
As for why bishops don't meet with "not-so-wealthy laity" and "faithful Catholics," how do you know they don't? How would you know if they did?
It seems to me that this whole Boisi Affair demonstrates the willingness of bishops to meet with interested Catholics whom they believe might have some insights on the Church today. If Mark Shea or Amy Welborn -- and I mean no disrespect to either, but I think some of their regular readers exaggerate their position in the Church -- want to have a meeting with the bishops, they should invite the bishops to a meeting. (Though I'd recommend they have an attendee list and an agenda ready when the invitations go out.)
Well, since there the ones paying (with $$, not with agony and anguish) for the bishops policy of ordaining homosexuals for the last 40 years, they'll have to talk to 'em some time. . . .
You don't hear about Chaput or O'Malley doing things like this (at least I haven't). Makes you wonder.
Mark,
I don't mean to say that the bishops know of you personally. But, certainly they should now about the world of faithful Catholics on the Internet. And, next time they think about meeting with some laity, mabye they can get their secretaries to look up some faithful Catholics they've never heard of, instead of pow-wowing with dissidents.
Tom,
Are you reading what I write? I never once mentioned the dear Cardinal of Washington. I mentioned Bishop Gregory. Did he not know who was invited? Were all of the bishops going to a meeting of which they knew nothing? I thought they were busy men. I can imagine that McCarrick went in ignorantly because Bishop Gregory invited him because it was in his own diocese. Am I to believe four bishops happened upon a meeting one day with dissident Catholics, and none of them knew how they got there?
"How do I know that they don't?" Because there are no accounts of it, records of it, talk about it, or evidence of it.
How do I know that Mark Shea doesn't wear lipstick? I guess I don't know for certain but I can't find one damn bit of evidence that he does.
Mark and Tom,
One more point. Any Catholic in America that keeps half an eye on the Catholic press should at least be familiar with the names Mark Shea and Amy Welborn. Of course, neither of you are as "famous" as Scott Hahn or Mother Angelica, but both of you have written enough books and articles that any bishop who at least tries to keep half-decent track of what's going on in Catholic publishing, should at least have seen your name somewhere before.
S.F.,
According to Cardinal McCarrick's communications director, he was invited to attend by a businessman and had no input into the guest list. Is there one damn bit of evidence to believe the situation was significantly different for Bishop Gregory?
Tom,
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe American bishops just show up to meetings helter-skelter because wealthy liberals tells them to. I figured they were really busy guys and would want a little more info. than just the fact some rich guy wants to put together a list of his friends so they can talk about the scandal. And, oh, it will be completely secret. Even more reason for a bishop not to worry about who would be there.
I've got to go now. I'm calling Bishop Gregory and asking him if me and a few friends can come over to talk about the crisis. You want to come? I'll put you on the super-secret guest list.
I actually stand a .05% chance of getting a yes, so let me know. My father-in-law works for the bishop, my brother-in-law was ordained by the bishop, and he sent me and my wife a nice piece of crystal as a wedding gift five years ago.
S.F.,
Can we have it at the John Paul II Cultural Center? Then I could bring my kids; they like ringing the bells.
If it's in Belleville, I'll have to telecon in. How secure a line will we need?
Has anyone asked Fr. Groeschel what he thinks of this?
I mean it's an advertising ploy for Crisis magazine......
Whoa. Two Toms here. Pls use initials. Menu FIND won't work in these comments boxes. Mark: invest in a good razor-edged boomerang before you come down under -- but don't take it with you in the plane cabin.
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