Mark the answer is quasi-lying scum. If I remember right Tim Russert I believe brought this story up with Dean on Meet the Press and while I don't remember the exact quote it turns out the father Dean suspected was NOT the father of his daughter's child and had never touched the girl that way. Russert asked how Dean could continue telling that story when he know it was a lie and that he was maligning (a so-far nameless) innocent man. Dean said it wasn't important it was the point he was making that counted. So says the Prophet Howard Dean, worshipper of the abortion god.

I can't recall if Russert ever asked why Dean didn't report the father or the cretin who did impregnate the underage girl (statutory rape is still a crime) but I know it makes no difference - Planned Parenthood constantly performs abortions on underage girls impregnated by older men without reporting it to the authorities and no one says boo.
Ita O'Byrne | 08.29.03 - 10:57 am | #

Yep. If bishops do this, it's monstrous. If PP does it, it's heroic.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 08.29.03 - 11:12 am | #

I oppose child abuse notification laws on principle. I don't believe that professionals whether doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists, teachers, or clergy should be obliged by law to report child abuse when they reasonably suspect that it has occured. I don't think professionalism is served by coercing them into arms of law enforcement.

When a problem like this comes to light, it is not always true that the best solution is to have the authorities barging in and imposing a solution of their own. When there is a crisis situation occurs, sometimes a more discreet approach is in fact preferable. It is better to fix a situation like to avoid solutions which destroy the family under the guise of saving it, if that is indeed possible.

Moreover, notification laws create a disincentive for both children and abusers from going to a professional to come up with a solution to the problem if they know that the cops or social services will be involved.

Finally, notification laws encourage people to report persons to the authorities where there is flimsy evidence, thereby creating nightmares for innocent families.
Patrick Rothwell | Homepage | 08.29.03 - 11:13 am | #

Well, now we know why Dean is so popular: he perfectly embodies the Democrats amoral self-righteousness.

Kinda trivial: You keep using an indefinite article before the word "scum". Is that grammatical?
jmc | 08.29.03 - 11:26 am | #

Peace, all.

Well, this is an interesting thread. Mark has yet to do his detective work on the guy, and already Howie is being sent to the deep fat fryer. Real integrity from MaChurch vigillantes, I see.

Parental notification would never guarantee fewer abortions (if this is the reason for the tactic) and suddenly we might have thousands of confused teens being pressured into abortions by their parents.
Todd | 08.29.03 - 11:58 am | #

Boy this is really disgusting (and I mean Dean).

Stories like this (obviously horrific if/when true) remind me of why I so disliked the film The Cider House Rules. As if the vast majority of abortions involve incest!

Dean apparently goes on telling this quasi-lie because, as Ita says, he thinks it's his point that counts.

Like I already said, disgusting.
Cheryl | 08.29.03 - 12:07 pm | #

From the transcript at http://www.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp

Here's the exact exchange from Dean's appearance on Meet the Press (in which he did not come off well according to many critics):

Russert: In terms of who you are, I want to refer you to your comments at the National Abortion Rights Action League in January. And I’ll read it to you and our viewers. “One time a young lady came to office who was 12 years old, and she thought she might be pregnant. And we did the test and we did the exam and she was pregnant. ...And after I had talked to her for awhile, I came to the conclusion that the likely father of her child was her own father. You explain that to the American people who think that parental notification is a good idea. I will veto parental notification.” And then this in USA Today. “Dean told a powerful story but left out a key fact. ...What Dean didn’t say was that he knew the father was not responsible, someone else was convicted.” That’s a pretty big omission.

Dean: What do you mean?

Russert: To say to people at NARAL, “Leave us a suggestion”...

Dean: I don’t think it’s—omission. A pretty big omission, you mean? Yeah.

Russert: Yeah. That’s a pretty—to say that...

Dean: I don’t think it is at all.

Russert: To suggest her father may have been...

Dean: I thought it was. At the time, I thought it was.

Russert: But when you told that story, you knew otherwise.

Dean: That’s right.

Russert: Why didn’t you say that?

Dean: Because it didn’t make any difference. Because the fact that I thought that at the time, that that girl had been made pregnant with her father, under a parental notification law, I would have then been required to report that to her family.

Russert: But parental notification for a 12-year-old—this woman wants an abortion. According to Vermont law and all the laws I’ve checked across the country, a minor needs parental consent to get a driver’s license, a tattoo, see an R-rated movie. When we talked about the death penalty, you talked about the 12- and 15-year-old young girls.

Dean: Right.

Russert: And you said we need a death penalty as a way of dealing with those kinds of situations. Why not tell a parent, notify a parent that their 12-year-old girl is going to have an abortion, or if it’s an abusive situation, go to a judge. Why not?
Dean: Here’s what you do, and here’s what we do. You know, I, as an internist, saw a number of—I took care of all kinds of ranges of people. I saw a number of girls like this, none of whom I suspected what I suspected about this girl. I always tried to get the parents involved. Usually I knew the parents, and I would—the way I would do it is I would bring them in my office and I would say, “Look, the smartest thing to do is call your parents.” “My parents are going to kill me.” I said, “They’re not going to kill you. I
ita o'byrne | 08.29.03 - 12:37 pm | #

Sorry went too long on last post.

Transcript continued:

Dean: Here’s what you do, and here’s what we do. You know, I, as an internist, saw a number of—I took care of all kinds of ranges of people. I saw a number of girls like this, none of whom I suspected what I suspected about this girl. I always tried to get the parents involved. Usually I knew the parents, and I would—the way I would do it is I would bring them in my office and I would say, “Look, the smartest thing to do is call your parents.” “My parents are going to kill me.” I said, “They’re not going to kill you. I know them. They’re going to be very upset. We need to get them involved.” I would never pick up the phone against their will and call them. Sometimes they’d say, “I can’t deal with it. You call them.” Once in a while, when a child says “My parents are going to kill me,” they’re not kidding.

Russert: But you go to a judge in that situation.

Dean: But judicial bypass has been shown not to work. There’s been a lot of studies about it in Massachusetts. It just doesn’t work. You have to rely—look, nobody’s going to take a 12-year-old child and give her an abortion without being—I hope without being sensible, thoughtful and trying to get an adult involved. But to have rigid parental notification laws make it more difficult to practice medicine. This young girl that I talked about turned out—of course, we reported the whole situation—turned out the person who had sexually abused her was convicted. Fine. That’s the right thing to have happened. But suppose we’d had a parental notification law, and suppose under the law I was then obliged to call up her parents and say, “I have this young girl here who, you know, is pregnant” and so forth and so on. What would have been the fate of that girl when she went home?

Russert: If you, in fact, thought it was an abusive situation, you can go to a judge. That’s the point of notification laws.

Dean: Yeah, but you know what?

Russert: And if you have one for tattoos and driver’s license and movies, why not for something as serious as abortion?

Dean: Every doctor knows that you should get a responsible adult involved, and I hope that every doctor fulfills that mission. I’ll give you an example. There have been judges that say, “Under no circumstances will I provide certification that this girl should have an abortion, because I’m against abortion.” Now, there are bad judges in the system, and some of them rule on these cases. Why can’t this be a matter between the doctor, the family and the patient? Why can’t it be like that? Why do we have to have politicians always wanting to practice medicine? Whether a woman can have an abortion, what has to happen...

Russert: But some 12-year-olds don’t want to tell their mom and dad, and you are supporting that.

Dean: No, I’m not. What I’m saying is if the 12-year-old doesn’t want to tell their mom and dad because t
ita o'byrne | 08.29.03 - 12:40 pm | #

The last of it:

Dean: But judicial bypass has been shown not to work. There’s been a lot of studies about it in Massachusetts. It just doesn’t work. You have to rely—look, nobody’s going to take a 12-year-old child and give her an abortion without being—I hope without being sensible, thoughtful and trying to get an adult involved. But to have rigid parental notification laws make it more difficult to practice medicine. This young girl that I talked about turned out—of course, we reported the whole situation—turned out the person who had sexually abused her was convicted. Fine. That’s the right thing to have happened. But suppose we’d had a parental notification law, and suppose under the law I was then obliged to call up her parents and say, “I have this young girl here who, you know, is pregnant” and so forth and so on. What would have been the fate of that girl when she went home?

Sorry about the three posts in a row. In a spirit of fairness, I didn't feel righting editing or excluding any of Mr.Dean's words.
ita o'byrne | 08.29.03 - 12:43 pm | #

Which it turns out I did in my ineptness at cut and paste. *sigh*. Here's the REAL last words:

Dean: No, I’m not. What I’m saying is if the 12-year-old doesn’t want to tell their mom and dad because they’re afraid of their mom and dad is going to hurt them, then you have an obligation to make sure that you talk with that 12-year-old and work—first of all, 12-year-olds don’t get pregnant, usually speaking, unless there’s a real problem. But if the 12-year-old has a legitimate reason, then there has to be a different way to do this.
ita o'byrne | 08.29.03 - 12:48 pm | #

Is Howard Dean an abortionist?

http://www.americandaily.com/item/2000
Leo, Jr. | 08.29.03 - 1:10 pm | #

The modern Democrat party and Howard Dean are made for each other. I will enjoy voting against this moral pigmy.
Donald R. McClarey | 08.29.03 - 1:37 pm | #

The whole speech is worth reading. I've fisked it at my blog, if anyone's interested.
Gregg the obscure | Homepage | 08.29.03 - 3:34 pm | #

Ito,
thanks for providing the transcript!
Anonymous | 08.29.03 - 5:31 pm | #

great fisking by Greg. Dean whines about the government wanting to tell docs how to practice. What an idiot! How did he EVER get licensed??? Medicine is a highly regulated industry - there are all kinds of medical boards, medicare/medicaid regs, state health laws, not to mention PUBLIC MEDICAL SCHOOLS that tell, teach and decide what medical procedures can and cannot be performed. But somehow, a parental notification law would be too much government control over medicine. Like I said, what an idiot.
c matt | 08.29.03 - 5:56 pm | #

You have to rely—look, nobody’s going to take a 12-year-old child and give her an abortion without being—I hope without being sensible, thoughtful and trying to get an adult involved.

Mr. Dean is far more hopeful than I am.
Geoff Horton | 08.29.03 - 6:28 pm | #

Peace, all.

If this is true, then I say chuck him into the fryer. Problem is, I have all the R's real crispy (years ago) and who does that leave. If only I could find a Dem so liberal he opposed abortion, then I'd have it made, eh?
Todd | 08.30.03 - 9:20 am | #

Idiotic or not, most doctors complain about any attempt to tell them how to practice. I don't know if anybody has checked the abuse reporting law in Vermont, but if the physicians there are like the ones in my state, there's a strong ethic against reporting anything revealed by a patient to law enforcement.
SJ | 08.30.03 - 9:48 pm | #

I read Laurence Tribe's book "Abortion: The Clash of Absolutes" in the library once. He used the case of a 14-year-old girl, Skye [I forget surname], whose father killed her because she got pregnant (not to him). She wanted an aboriton but her county had no "providers" nearby for a surreptitious trip. Tribe was using this case to argue for full abortion rights for minors. Someone wrote in the margin: "Legalise Abortion Now! Or Else Parents Will Be Killing Their Own Children!"
Evan Jellicoe | 08.31.03 - 7:45 pm | #