It is the great legacy of the Jesuits that makes us so angry with them, how did we go from Hammer of the heretics to jesuit Universitys that are dissenters? May I suggest their time has passed?
Oh Puh-lease! As a Dominican my fight with the Jesuits extends back to the 16th century. It has nothing today with thier modern day heresies.
I could be wrong.
I'm not about to pick up a second stone.
I know the Jesuits have their problems, I recently graduated from a Jesuit Univ. (I'm no wide-eyed youngster, either).
I also know that I converted to Catholicism while I was there.
Peace,
As the saying goes, the corruption of the best is always the worst.
I know there are good Jesuits out there, suffering from within their own order by persecution from their own. Still, you simply can't deny that the Jesuits are a dying order. We all have to hope that an order that has given so much to the Church over the centuries can rediscover itself, and return to faithfulness. But the signs are bad, in terms of just plain numbers (the "gaying and graying" of the Jesuits is not some made-up phenomenon).
I've noticed something over the years: I keep running into people around my age -- mid-30s -- who, if they find out I'm a Catholic convert, launch into a story about how grateful they are -- genuinely! -- to the Jesuits for educating them out of Catholicism.
Dear SJ wanna be:
I work with diocesan and religious priests all over. I've met orthodox SJ's indeed - they are great but they are also deeply scarred. All the ones I've have met have taken incredible abuse at the hands of their confreres over the years. They are pretty stoic but the pain still leaks out. I had a long conversation about this with a newly ordained diocesan priest recently who studied in Rome and wondered out loud how orthodox Jesuits manage to survive.
This is not to say that this is not God's will for you. But simply that to survive, much less flourish in today's Jesuit community, you must go in with your eyes *wide* open. You may indeed be part of the solution but you have to be willing to endure enormous pain on the way. "Jesus, for the joy that was before him, endured the cross, despising the shame."
"Two men were discussing the similarities and differences between Dominicans and Jesuits. the first explained that they were both founded by Spaniards to combat the prevailing heresy of the day. Albigensianism on the one and and Protestantism on the other.
'Well,' the second fellow asks,' Are there any differences?'
'Ever seen any Albigensians running around?'"
Man, I hate to defend the Jesuits, but I believe the Church still finds value in Ignatian spirituality, which means I believe the Church still finds value in the Society of Jesus, which means I suspect they'll be with us a while yet.
So yes, I deny they are a dying order. Waning, certainly, by all accounts, but that's a much different matter.
The men who are entering the priesthood or religious life in this day in age , in a world which is filled with secularism and materialism are looking for orders which are solidly catholic and solidly for Jesus and having no apologies about it . Many of these men are attracted to rather young communities which are solidly catholic and solidly christian . If the jesuits don't renew themselves they will eventually die away . Just the fact that every orthodox catholic ,has a bad impression of the jesuits now is not good .
Let's pray for the intercession of St. Ignatious of Loyolla to reform his order .
Everytime you look at Georgetown , Boston College , University of Seattle, University of San Francisco and other Jesuit institutions you just can't help but think another suppression is needed .
Another puzzling question regarding JOhn Paul is why he hasn't done something about the Jesuits. It's not like it's a secret that the order is rife with heresy.
The Master said that when much is given, much is demanded. 500 years of careful progress went kerpop after- uh oh, his favorite phrase again-
GoGo60s. Many Jesuits drank the whole bottle of Dissent without ice or chaser. Thus their principal means of bragging these days is the St. Joseph's b-ball team- number 3 in competition dominated by Enormous State Us. May take another generation and then some for the order to go cold turkey. At which time more than one of their wonderful universities will have lay presidents- Georgetown, that hotbed of wackiness, already has one. If we're hypercritical, it's because we expect more from the order that used to serve as the sitting Pope's equivalent of Special Ops. But God will raise up others- if some people don't want to do His work, others will volunteer gladly.
And another G.E. Theory of U.S. Catholic Colleges- the level of dissent there is in direct proportion to the success of, or interest in, either their men's or women's (we must be inclusive these days) basketball programs. Or- Georgetown? Messy. Marquette? Gave tenure to Dan Maguire. Boston College? like a a bad rock band- Peter Kreeft and The Cold Nuts. St. Joseph's? Uh, All-American Jameer Nelson. And coach Phil Martelli is one of the funniest guys in sports (until he got into a screaming match with a St. Bonaventure's fan last weekend. Rooting for St. Bonnie's- with one of the messiest b-ball scandals in years following last season.)
Wow, Jesuit-to-be reader, GREAT POST!! Point taken. More prayers, less despair needed. Maybe you can be their St. Francis. I will pray that you are up to the task.
My perception is that the role of "orthodox special ops" has now been assumed by Opus Dei. Although I can only comment on one profession, teaching, I see the trend is for Jesuit high schools to be closing and Opus Dei to be opening. Can anyone with more knowledge comment?
Hello Thomas,
Weigel comments on this at short length in his biography of the Pope.
There was the flap with replacing Arupe back in the 80's. The Pope's paradigm seems to be to reinforce and promote success and fidelity, and benign neglect (as much as possible) for those orders that are decaying - at least when reform seems not to be possible. And both Paul and John Paul gave the Society of Jesus every opportunity to shape up before push came to shove with succession controversy.
So thriving orthodox orders like the Legionaires and Opus Dei get all kinds of papal favor, and the Jesuits, after failing to respond to cuffing, are left to wither on the vine. Or at least find within themselves (or the Spirit) the means for their rejuvenation.
That seems unlikely at this point but one always holds out hope.One can only regard the decline and fall of a great order like the Jesuits with a certain sadness.
best regards,
Perhaps I'm throwing a wet towel on some favorite fires, but I think predictions of the sort we're making are speculative, uncertain, and (honestly) pointless. The Carmelites had huge problems, but God renewed them through SS. Theresa and John; on the other hand, the Knights Templar had major problems, and they don't exist anymore. I honestly don't think it's our call to engage in overconfident speculation, but to pray our hardest, work our hardest, and let God worry about successes and failures.
To your reader:
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Point taken. We shouldn't let the barrel of rotten apples spoil the two or three good ones in there. And yes, they are in there - I attended one of those Jesuit intstitions, albeit at the high school level, (early 80's) and basically got an astounding secular education but a lukewarm theological one. But there were absolutely great priests there who I hold in high esteem to this day.
But a large part of the tongue lashing is because there is NO DOUBT they could do much better. Not only better, but they could be an irresistable force for young impressioonable minds. But, you are right - the last thing I need on my soul (which has plenty to account for already) is turning someone away from the RCC or a renewal of the Society of Jesus. More power and prayers to you.
I could also use some typing lessons.
One thing to consider: Orders can differ considerably from Province to Province. For instance, the Western Province of the Dominican Order, with which I work closely, is orthodox (although I can't speak for every opinion of every member) and the new guys coming up are very much so. A little oasis of light in Berkely, CA - of all places. Some US OP provinces are not in such good shape.
Re: the Jesuits. Avoid the California province. The stories I've heard from there are hair-raising.
Jesuit John,
Please tell me all about this renewal going on in the Jesuits. What is it about the Jesuits that I don't see?
In all sincerity, if my son had a vocation I would steer him somewhere else if I possibly could. I would tell him to think twice about joining any order with the intention of reforming IT from the inside. I would tell him that this is a perilous course of action, that he should look for an order that will form HIM to serve the church in a way that builds on his gifts. I would tell him that what he proposes is like marrying a woman who is crazy because you think you can straighten her out - a prescription for disaster.
I will agree that, at least with respect to my alma mater (and based upon what I know from my son's attendance there) things seem to have improved somewhat. But from what I get out of America and from what I hear about Georgetown, Boston College, et al, things don't look as promising right now. You are in an uphill battle, but, as Samwise would say, its worth fighting for.
Orthodoxy in Holy Orders has shrunk to only within the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X. Check the "new" rite of the Sacrament against the traditional in the Novus Ordo. John, if I were a young man who wanted to give himself to Christ, I would check out this faithful society of priests. They are truly now the Society of Jesus.
I was baptized at Dahlgren Chapel, Georgetown University, in 1988, at the age of 49. If I had known then what I know now, I would have looked for another place - but I would have been baptized anyway some place.
I was there because the uncle of some people I knew in Missouri was supposed to be there. He'd moved on, so I just walked into the Jesuit dining room and spoke to the first priest I saw.
The priest I spoke with first was, as I recognize now, one of the most pious, fervent priests in the celebration of the Mass I've ever encountered. He was also on a brief leave from Sophia University in Japan.
God puts you where He wants you.
Frank:
Spoken like a true sectarian. Donatus, call your office.
Gerald E.:
Not sure that your basketball theory works, or else Georgetown would have become a lot more orthodox during the past decade or so.
I think the reason for a great deal of the bashing is that such a bright shining star of the faith has fallen so far. The Jesuits went from "The Pope's Marines" to the mess that they are in today. They are not the only order to fall so far, as the Maryknoll order fell hard, with one of its flock becoming Ortega's right hand man in Nicaragua.
The reader sounds like he would be a great convert-priest. I would recommend looking elsewhere for a vocation, it would not behoove the reader to join the SJ's as it would be a fight to remain orthodox and pursue holiness. The stories told on St. Blog's are only a small fraction of the whole story.
It is intresting to see the differnt tracks Dominicans and Jesuits have taken in recent years. Dominicans have their dissenters, but as noted, their Westren Province is quite orthodox, I also will say their Eastren Provicne is quite orthdox as well, and even the Southren provicne seem sto have some orthodox members(Holy Rosary parish in Houston TX for example), but then againm, there is a saying, "If you have met one Dominican, you have met one Dominican).
To Jesuit John and other ortohdox men who are inspired by the tradition of the Jesuits, I will offer my prayers and support. The path you choose will be a difficult one, but all orthdox Catholics need to support men such as these who choose such a difficult path, that one day God willingf, will be rewarding and result in a authentic renewal. It will be men such as these who get them there.
I would like to hear from the liberal readers of this blog:
what is the success story of this order that embraced (or even spawned) the Spirit of Vatican II? In what way can they be models for reform/renewal in other orders?
Or, if indeed something went wrong, how would you do it differently?
As it is, it seems there are three models for priestly orders in the world (leaving monks aside, although there are parallels):
1. Jesuits
2. Legionaries of Christ
3. FSSP.
2 and 3 must seem hopelessly reactionary to a liberal.
So let's hear the liberal defense of their only option, the Jesuits, please.
The Jesuit bashing is indeed tired--but, to date, unrefuted.
Hope it isn't true, but a Jesuit friend of mine recently told me that there are open homosexuals in every Jesuuit house in CA, and that most of the Superiors in the West coast houses are gay.
Those who would make overnight visits to these communities, beware...
Look, I spent 16 years at Jesuit institutions. There are indeed profound problems in the Society, as we all know. But I was also blessed to meet a number of Jesuits - both older and younger - who are orthodox, energetic, and happy. I don't have a problem with pointing to the order's problems, but I do have a problem with assuming they're gonna die, or with discouraging people who may have a legit vocation to the Society and who might be able to do a lot of good for the Church and the world from within it. Oh, and "Nameless"'s taxonomy is woefully incomplete, as I'm sure Tom, TOP, could remind us if he returned to this comment box.
Mark:
I, nor anyone as far as I know, who attend the Roman Rite Mass at the chapels of the Society of Saint Pius X are Donatists. We are neither heretics nor schismatics. We have decided to pass on the new age novelties inherent in the "Novus Ordo"
and go to where there is true orthodoxy. We could be reasonably compared to the Church of the Catacombs or the underground Church. Again, any young man wanting to truly serve Jesus Christ should contact their seminary - St. Thomas Aquinas in Winona, MN.
I feel sad when listening to the horror stories of the present "church". We have lost a great treasure.
To whome it concerns:
don't let the dispair of the readers of this blog bother you. As faithful Christians we are a people of hope, to dispair would be to sin against it. Have faith my friend, in God's grace, his benevolence and guidence. We are a people of hope.
I just recently attended a lecture by a jesuit priest form Georgetown at my school, and if I had taken the words of these readers seriously, I would have been expecting the devil himself. Needless to say I was very very impressed by his lecture and orthodoxy. His name is Fr.Schall professor of government at Georgetown. He rebuked current secular philosophy and quoted the pope endlessly and made a heartfelt call to all to read GK chesterton's book about Aquinas (since it was aquinas day, our patron) telling us it would change our lives. Hope. do not give in to the current trend of dispair on this site, theirorthodox views do not make them ipso facto correct, most certainly they err. Hope my friend.
Fr. Schall is a gem!
Marquette has Frs. Bill Kurz & Ray Gawronski, excellent priests both.
Jesuits are either holy or awful--no in between, ever notice?? So you can't assume anything til you know them....WELL.
I'm a freshman at Santa Clara University. Its a Jesuit school that no one ever seems to talk about here. Odd. I thought we were better known than that. Maybe its cause we don't have a football team....
Anyway, its hard to figure out this school. My roomate says that this is "the most anti-Catholic school ever." I'm not entirely sure of that. The mission church (one of the California missions, y'know, though its been rebuilt) is where I go to mass every sunday. There are different priests every time, though of course they repeat occasionally. It really differs from Jesuit to Jesuit, I'd say. Some of them give really good, orthodox homilies. Much of the time though, the homilies are more about politics (unqualified allegiance to the democrats, usually) than religion. (I must say, however, that Fr. McCarthy's Brittany Spears imitation is hilarious. I've never seen a better rendition of "I'm a slave for you" sung at mass.) I'm in a Catholic theology class with Fr. Smith, who's a very old Jesuit who looks like Bilbo Baggins. He's in to liberation theology, and sometimes really criticizes the Pope, but he's pretty good otherwise (actually, those things don't come up much.)
Anyway, that's it. Just, next time you guys are listing Jesuit schools, make sure and mention SCU!
I thank yall for the kind comments and even the not-so-kind ones. I don't usually say much on blogs, but you can email me if you want to correspond in a more private way.
Pray for the renewal of the Jesuits!
(PS: just to refute the idea that the Jesuits are breathing our last, my province had 3 novices the day before I entered. There are 18 today! The Holy Spirit is calling us for SOME reason...)
God Bless you Jesuit John. You have chosen an arduous path and given much in genorosity to God. But I assure you, He will not be outdone in generosity 
If God is truly calling you to the Society, then listen to Him and Him alone. There are some here that would rather succomb to the fear of being "tainted" and stay safe in their orthodoxy than to do the will of God, which sometimes calls us to walk in the lions' den.
I am genuinely curious however. Can those who purport that the Jesuits are a dying order provide some hard evidence for this, other than news stories of Jesuit universities and erroring SJs (as if that was all the Jesuits did in their apostolate missions)? Numbers of those entering? Numbers of novices? etc?
Another Jesuit suppression? Are you serious? We want to go through this (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14096a.htm) again?
In my opinion, the blood of countless Jesuit martyrs and saints was not shed in vain.
LACAstronomer:
SCU is useful for those going to business and some of the other majors. Academically, it's a good school I've heard that the Philosophy department is good for Catholics. But it is a disaster in the areas of theology/ministry and religious studies. As you go through your RelStudies courses, don't plan on learning Catholicism. You will hear plenty of things contrary to the Catholic Faith. I never recommend any parishioner send their children to SCU after several bad experiences in my years in ministry.
Unfortunately, a great number of the parish Directors of Religious Education earn their MAs in Catechetics here. It is utterly useless in terms of learning the tenets of the Faith. You will learn far more by reading this blog!
Anyways, like a rafter on the Niagara River listening to the roar in the distance, your bad times lie ahead.
And have a nice day...
from a Bay Area priest
I've only met one orthodox Jesuit in person. He happens to be a high school chaplain and an exorcist - both of which are miraculous given that he is in the most heterodox archdiocese in Australia (case in point: the archdiocese purchased a conference hall and gave it to a group of nuns. The nuns use the hall to run Goddess worship activities. The archdiocese was notified of this by the local - secular - paper. The archdiocese did not correct the problem.)
The Sj I know has been through hell in his order and archdiocese. This pains me greatly because I love the Jesuits.
I want to join them, but ...
About a year I go I engaged in a public debate with an SJ high school chaplain over the need to proclaim the divinity of Christ to young people to help them grow in faith. His response? Women should be priests, because then numbers will go up. Seriously. That was his response.
Sigh.
The LCs and OD are too ... rigid... for me; and the SJs are too gay. Where am I meant to go?
Out of curiosity, how have people decided they were called to found new orders? Was it a response to a need or integral to their vocation or what?
Where am I meant to go?
May God lead you wherever He wants you to go.
Out of curiosity, how have people decided they were called to found new orders?
Some founders started doing something, and drew enough people to them that an order could be, or had to be, founded. Some decided there was a special need requiring a new order dedicated to that need. Some were told by their spiritual directors, or invited by a bishop, to found a new congregation.
O my dear brethren! I, yes I, the commenter with the horrific German name, am the reader that submitted this email to Mark. I thank you ALL so much for your warnings and encouragements. I have been dying to get some serious discussion of the Jesuits since sensing a vocation and finding CAEI. I shall be praying for the SJs, of course, and for you (insofar as you are mostly anonymous folks to me, bound only by baptism and faith, but ya dig).
I'll be consistent, I suppose, and comment on something else Charles R Williams said. He likened my desire to "reform" the Jesuits to a man desiring to marry and "fix" a crazy woman. Quixotic and potentially suicidal. I see his point, all too well, and I really appreciate his concern. But (I think!) the flaw in his analogy is that I am actually being drawn to marry the Church in service to God -- it just so happens, as a Jesuit. A better analogy, I think, is that of a man desiring to marry an amazing, peculiar woman and live with her in a very rough neighborhood.
I don't believe in the Jesuits, especially since so many have flouted their ordination. I believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God, and in the Church he founded (whatever I better come to see that means). But I do respect the Jesuit heritage and heroes from which many today have veered. I love the Church; it seems to be my mysterious burden to want to love her in a Jesuit sorta way.
Some people are outraged because the Jesuits have fallen so far, a feeling I understand very sympathetically (and indeed almost put in the email to Mark). But I guess I'm focusing more on the plateau from which they've fallen than on their fall itself.
Again, thank you SO MUCH for your opinions and prayers. I never tire of discussing the Jesuits, probably because it's infintely more than a mere academic interest for me. From this issue hang some of the most important things -- and people -- in my young life. O God in Heaven help me!
Please email me with any further thoughts or horror stories or encouragements, etc.
Cheers, till next time...
"Geistetc."
Jesuit John points to the number of novices as an indication of the renewed vitality of the Order. Isn't quality the real issue? The current reputation of the Jesuits may be attracting gay, heterodox novices by the dozen -- not the basis for a healthy renewal from within!
(I must say, however, that Fr. McCarthy's Brittany Spears imitation is hilarious. I've never seen a better rendition of "I'm a slave for you" sung at mass.)
Hmm. Nothing builds up one's faith in these troubled times like a screaming nellie priest on the altar...
In my opinion, the blood of countless Jesuit martyrs and saints was not shed in vain.
You are absolutely correct. As Jesuit John/Geistetc (Jesuit John seems easier) points out, that blood was shed AMDG, not AMSoJG, therefore it can never be in vain. That said, whichever way Jesuit John decides to go, I have every reason to believe he will make a positive impact. And given the comments I have read from him, I have no doubt he would be one of the great Jesuits. More like him, please.
In addition to the three priestly orders named above, I would add the Oblates of Mary Immaculate. While the number of Oblates has decreased over the past several years, there are still many thousands doing the Lord's work.
I spent a couple of years in a formation with the Oblates in Washington, D.C. Their college was well-known as the "conservative" one, and many other orders sent their seminarians there for training rather than to the more liberal Theological College of the Archdiocese of Washington or to Catholic University across the street. I met many upstanding priests (and a few brothers, but they are mostly priests) while there, and occasional news reports of Oblates in the world, like Archbishop George of Chicago, lead me to hope that this order is still faithful to Christ and his work of proclaiming the Gospel.
I went to the Oblates of Mary in DC for spiritual direction.
The priest asked me if I had ever read the Baltimore catherchism. When I said that I had, he told me to forget everything in it.
This was in 1994 or 1995.
I don't despair of the Jesuits. I'm annoyed with the way they mistreat their members who are faithful to the Magisterium, and with their sorry record for destroying the faith of students (including my father) commended to their tuition, but that isn't despair. On the contrary, I confidently expect a great correction of the order, and am vengeful enough to hope that it may come in my lifetime, so I can make some popcorn, and watch from a ringside seat.
In answer to the charge that the 18 current novices in my province might not be of a high quality: As far as I can tell, nearly all are excellent. They come from all over and with backgrounds like Franciscan University of Steubenville and Casa Balthazar in Rome. Most importantly, they are ready to be trained by the Spirit through the charism of Ignatius and are not afraid of suffering for the greater glory of God. Trust my first hand account - The Jesuits are on the upswing; Thank God!
Jesuit John, I'm sorry you took my question on the quality of the novices as a "charge". I certainly didn't mean it as such. I was educated by Canadian Jesuits and take much delight in finally hearing some good news about the order.
The good c matt said:
As Jesuit John/Geistetc (Jesuit John seems easier) points out, that blood was shed AMDG, not AMSoJG, therefore it can never be in vain. That said, whichever way Jesuit John decides to go, I have every reason to believe he will make a positive impact. And given the comments I have read from him, I have no doubt he would be one of the great Jesuits. More like him, please.
I'd like to make it very clear that I, Geistesweisheit, am not Jesuit John. One thing we don't need are theologically and mentally disturbed SJs! Jesuit John is a Jesuit. Geistesweisheit is a precocious Prot pondering pastoring and praying under the Papal Primacy of Peter.
(Your words are gold to me, c matt. Thanks so much for the encouragement.)
And I am not Geistesweisheit. I have already committed myself with vows to the Jesuits. I am a cradle Catholic that entered the SJ in August 2000.
"Hmm. Nothing builds up one's faith in these troubled times like a screaming nellie priest on the altar..."
I was joking, of course. Actually, Fr. McCarthy seems okay (despite the singing). I've only seen him at two masses, but a friend of mine takes a Christian Tradition class from him, and hasn't reported anything outrageous (but then again, this friend is a pro-abort Lutheran, so.........). Some of the priests are [i]way[/i] too political. Usually not at mass, though sometimes its kind of like a "close the School of the Americas" rally.
The Santa Clara (our newspaper) ran an article on contraception. SCU's health center doesn't give out condoms (my roomate says that at his girlfriend's non-Catholic school they hand you condoms with your meals). The students who run the newspaper think that SCU should start giving out condoms because the school shouldn't be controlled by the church (seperation of church and everything, I guess). Anyway, the health center does refer students seeking information on contraception to the nearby Planned Parenthood. The newspaper quoted a priest I've never met, Fr. Crowley, as saying something that added up to (though didn't state exactly) "the church's teachings on contraceptives only apply to married couples. Since very few SCU undergrads are married, its okay for them to use contraceptives."
Further amazing incidents here at SCU:
-a drag show (I don't want to see men in dresses if I'm not at mass)
-advocation of contraceptives in a presentation for all freshmen
-three Moslem organizations, no Catholic ones
-the SC Community Action Program is overrun with Marxists who wear shirts that say CCCP (USSR in Russian) and have hammer and sickles. They do NO pro-life work, but spend lots of time campaiging for such things as homosexual marriage.
-no pro-life organization (I'd try to start one, if I knew any girls who would sit at the table with me...it just looks bad to have all guys at something like that...hear that, pro-life SCU girls reading this blog? )
-I was told by one student that the Jesuit priests don't really care if non-Catholics take communion, they want it open to everyone. I've never confirmed this rumor though.
-I was told that in the old Tridentine mass the priest faced away from the crowd as part of a power game for the pope. I said "isn't it to avoid facing away from the tabernacle" and the prof said "that's the excuse, but really its about power."
-school newspaper advocates "drunken hook-ups" as a way to spend a night
-well, I think thats about all I can think of now....I've got more, I just can't process so much offensiveness at a time.
LACAstronomer:
I think that if you start a pro-life organization, you will find that there will be many young women willing to join. At my own college (Providence College), the pro-life group was overwhelmingly female, and from what I understand, this is true at most colleges.
I would also like to stick up for PC as a college that is orthodox despite having a good basketball team. Santa Clara, apparently, should never have recruited Steve Nash.
Well, you see, to start a club here you've got to have people sit out there and recruit for it. The only people I know are pro-life are me and my roomate, and two guys sitting out there for a pro-life club would look bad. Maybe I could put up some posters or something. I don't know, probably with this school they wouldn't allow such a club.
you are abully, you are the horrible man banning gyas, you are the horrible man restricting gays, from rights that all men and women must have, thyou are thje horrible man, who supports teh burning of gays, it is unbeluibvgable that the nazi catholic church can go around supporting bullying of gays for doing a totally inoffensive act, that it can go aroubn asaying ays are weirdoes, and abnormla, and when gays fight backl, and say they are not abnormal, that they are not weirdoes, ayou then claim you are being bullied, and call them nazis, for claiming they have rights to marry, and to be in the church, even celibate gays are now goping to be banned from being in the chucrh by this horrible pope, a former member of the ss, it is utterly insane how horrible he is, that he supports arniold scwarternigger, a man who supports abortion and who was a bully in school, that he supports bullies, that he defends people about to be exwecuted for murder but that he calls, gays, wwridoes, like the bully in teh playground who bullies, the boy who is weak, and short and calls him gay, orthe bully in the playgrouind who calls a gay boy a weirdo, and wait for it "abnormal" of course gays should fight back against a horrible pope like this, the media image of the poep, and the chucrh is that they are all nice pweop,le, we are told from school priests and policemen, and all these people, are all nice people, it turns oput on closer inxsepection, that the police and priets are just like everybody else, excwept they have dictatorial power, in places like brazil, they have deaths squads which kills transvestites, andf gays, the pope is a horrible man, who calls gays weirdoes, what should gays, do, should they say thank you, we will not critise wthe pope, for calling us weirdoes, that would be such a nazi thing to do, tel;l, and what about that ki9d who wears glasses in pol pots' cambodia, what a horrible nazi he is for saying to pol pot that he should not be executed, how dare he, he should just accept that human sacrfice and hating gays are part of religon, and hating agys, and bullying gays, is just totally nattal, i hate you horrible catholic bullies, you arr unbeluivable in that you shout abuse at gays, and ban them from tyhis, and that, and incxrease nbannibvg of gays, and appeal to thugs, and ignore passes of the bible that say do not eat shellfish, dop not cut your hair, the only bit you lisetn to, is the hating gays,k bit, and you seriosly think that banniong aysm from this and that is nopt bu7llying, andf that gays fighting back against you is "bullying" you are thje bullies, tyou are horrible people, the pope, hates gays, and keeps on forcing the issue, increasinmg discrimination on gays, it is insane to mer, how he does this, it just shows chritianity is as much use as human scarficem, it is a horribnle bullies faith , and the more gays argue tnhat they should not be called weird, the more christians claim they should hate gaysm, i hope god if he is good, burns the homophobes for that
down with the nazi bullies,
I think you've got some problems, man.
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