Marcus Sheacus: Interesting that Mr. Medved lays out the element that keeps him out of the fold: "If I believed that the Gospels represented an unfailingly accurate report of the events of two thousand years ago, I'd be a Christian and not a Jew."

Hmmm. Sounds like some Scripture 101 -- or at least what "unfailingly" might mean -- might grease the skids for the guy.
patdavecoffin@sbcglobal.net | 02.24.04 - 3:42 pm | #

I doubt it. A person's religious roots are almost never as shallow as a syllogism.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 3:48 pm | #

Medved notes that the Jews are not the target audience for the Passion. Similarly, Christians are not the target audience for the Jewish leaders' criticism of the film.

The target audience for that criticism are the Jews who might be waffling on their vote this fall. This becomes a wedge issue to drive the Jewish vote back into the Democratic party fold and away from aligning with Bush and/or Christians who strongly support Israel. See...Bad Christians...Bad dogma...bad scriptures...they must hate Jews.

Medved nails it by talking in terms of allies of Jews.
Mike | 02.24.04 - 3:52 pm | #

Who is building up the Kingdom of God?

The brief filmography of “major filmmaker” and schismatic Catholic Mel Gibson:
“What Women Want”; PG-13 for sexual content and language
“Payback”; R for strong violence, language, and drug and sexual content
“Lethal Weapon 4”; R for violence and language
“Conspiracy Theory”; R for violence
“Fathers Day”; as Scott the Body Piercer
“Ransom”; R for graphic, bloody violence and strong language
“The Man Without a Face”; based on a book about a loving relationship between a man and a boy inspired by Nabokov’s “Lolita”
“Lethal Weapon 3”; R for violence and language (shows his butt)
“Air America”; rated R; Tagline: “The few, the proud, the totally insane.”
“Bird on a Wire”; PG-13, shows his butt
“Lethal Weapon 2”; R for violence, language, and explicit sexual content
“Tequila Sunrise”; rated R
“Lethal Weapon”; rated R
“Mad Max,” “Mad Max 2,” “Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome”; all rated R, particularly savage violence
larry dvm | 02.24.04 - 4:03 pm | #

And Caravaggio was a murderer. Your point?
Mark Shea | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 4:15 pm | #

Saul of Tarsus aka "St. Paul"

Pharisee "Born and bread."

Anti Christian rabble rouser

Holds chokes of those stoning 1st Christian Martyr to death

Becomes scourge of infant Church in Jerusalem

On way to carry his hateful mission to Demakis is struck down and blinded

Becomes a Christian Apostle and perhaps the greatest Doctor of the Church.

Arrested by the Romans, he is eventually exacted outside of Rome.

Oh Larry, just what was you point again?
John Hearn | 02.24.04 - 4:25 pm | #

...that should be Damascus...
John Hearn | 02.24.04 - 4:29 pm | #

Mel Gibson is the new Saul of Tarsus! Awesome!

Deep end, here we come!
larry dvm | 02.24.04 - 4:37 pm | #

larry:

If you are going to be shallow, at least be funny. Putting up a rap sheet of movies and playing Shocked Puritan is a real snooze.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 4:52 pm | #

Larry,

I think you neglected to mention your point? And BTW, I don't put word in you mouth, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so to me: please point out where I said the Mel was the new St. Paul? Careful my friend, you may be straying into trolldome.
John Hearn | 02.24.04 - 5:04 pm | #

My points:

1. Mark characterized Gibson as a "major filmmaker." If by "major" he means "rich and famous," then, okay. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to suddenly be taking him so seriously. He's an entertainer. Let's put this in perspective.

2. I was interested in eliciting the inevitable weak and inconsistent defenses of Gibson and his past work, which is mostly a collection of violent, sexually explicit, lowly humorous blockbusters. I got comparisons to Caravaggio and Saul of Tarsus. C'mon, this guy starred in "Bird on a Wire!"
larry dvm | 02.24.04 - 5:12 pm | #

And made "Braveheart" which somehow didn't make your list. Face it, dude. He's a major filmmaker.

John's right. You're veering into trollhood. Contribute something besides sneers to every thread or get lost.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 5:30 pm | #

John H:

"Oh Larry, just what was your point again?"

Oh, *that's* simple: the point is that larry [sic] the quipster is way, way smarter and far more sophisticated than you are. Moreover, you'll be happier when you finally genuflect to his obvious brilliance.
Anonymous | 02.24.04 - 5:32 pm | #

I have no idea why that posted as "Anonymous."

Strange.
Dale Price | 02.24.04 - 5:33 pm | #

Have a cup of coffee Larry (I think I'll go get one myself) and think:

Does starring in "Bird on a Wire" rank up there with murder on any sane scale? Mel has said that he has undergone a reversion back to his Catholic faith after almost ending it all in his despair. Peter denied his Master in His darkest hour. St. Francis was a playboy. Mary Magdalene was very likely a hooker. All of these people were lost - I have been lost myself - and through the Mercy of Almighty God who didn't spare His own Son to save each of us, they were forgiven and given the grace to change their lives. Doe s the make Mel Gibson the new St. Paul? No, it makes him the *new* Mel Gibson: the one who spent millions of his own money with no worldly prospect of getting a dime back in making the best film he could make about the Man he loves more than any other. Why do you think it meet to sneer at him for that? Even if the film had turned out to be an artistic failure, which it apparently has not, why would Mel not have the right to make such a film to give back in a small way for all the faith, hope, and love the Our Lord has given him?
John Hearn | 02.24.04 - 5:33 pm | #

Larry:
1. He won an Oscar for directing "Braveheart", which also won for Best Picture. You listed his acting credits mostly. He also directed The Patriot, I believe. So as filmakers go, Larry, he is "major" if you mean respected by his peers for his artistic efforts. He is also "major" in that lots of people see his movies, hence the fame and wealth.

2. Do you know what "elicited" means? Go look it up.

3. Your point is asinine. Nobody thinks it relevant that Clint Eastwood starred in the tv series "Rawhide" or the "Every Which Way But Loose" movies when assessing his directorial efforts such as the Oscar winning "Unforgiven" or Oscar nominated "Mystic River".

get a grip my friend.
Anonymous | 02.24.04 - 5:41 pm | #

I got anonymoused too! I take credit for being the Clint fan above.
frank sales | 02.24.04 - 5:44 pm | #

Larry, all filmmakers are entertainers. Film is an entertainment medium. Even documentaries are entertainment; there has to be a certain entertainment value, otherwise who would watch? Some filmmakers are able to make art. Very few are able to achieve that level. It's not easy. Spielberg made populist fantasy for the most part until Schlindler's List in 1993. Would you consider him an "entertainer" as well?
Gene Branaman | 02.24.04 - 6:30 pm | #

Hello Larry,

I think what we're trying to say is that the Kingdom of God is full of reformed sinners. Paul is obviously a spectacular example if perhaps a somewhat apposite one. St. Augustine also leaps to mind. No one would suggest (or I hope not) that Mel reaches the heights of holiness of either of those men.

So Mel has starred in some artistically poor and certainly offensive (to say nothing of un-Christian) films. As I read him, he regrets doing so now. If so, bully for him. He appears to be using some of those ill-gotten gains for good.

BTW, you also left off THE BOUNTY (honors at Cannes) HAMLET (3 Academy Award nominations) and GALLIPOLI (Golden Globe nomination, 1981). Among others. But I know you were just listing the violent and sexist ones.

best regards,
Richard | 02.24.04 - 6:37 pm | #

Larry,
You are a bicoastal, right?

You missed The Patriot. BTW.
Steve | 02.24.04 - 6:58 pm | #

+J.M.J+

"Now his elder son was in the field and when he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.

"And he said to him: Thy brother is come and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe.

"And he was angry and would not go in. His father therefore coming out began to entreat him.

"And he answering, said to his father: Behold, for so many years do I serve thee and I have never transgressed thy commandment: and yet thou hast never given me a kid to make merry with my friends. But as soon as this thy son is come, who hath devoured his substance with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

"But he said to him: Son, thou art always with me; and all I have is thine. But it was fit that we should make merry and be glad: for this thy brother was dead and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found." (St Luke 15:25-32)

In Jesu et Maria,
Rosemarie | 02.24.04 - 7:07 pm | #

Where did Larry go?

C'mon, Larry. Come out and play.

Isn't it fun anymore for you?

I agree with Mark's suggestion that "Larry" is a troll: he went back under the bridge where he lives in the dark with his other personae.
Fr. Brian Stanley | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 7:22 pm | #

Thanks, Rosemarie.
Gene Branaman | 02.24.04 - 7:45 pm | #

+J.M.J+

Gene: You're welcome. I figured the title character of Mel's movie said it best 2000 years ago.

In Jesu et Maria,
Rosemarie | Homepage | 02.24.04 - 10:37 pm | #

Ouch! Being called a "troll" by a priest - that's gotta smart.

Tough break, Lar.
FBC | 02.25.04 - 2:02 am | #

Is it just me- or does reading the "thees" and "thous" heighten the beauty of a Scripture reading? As always, Rosemarie contributes much to our proceedings.
Gerard E. | 02.25.04 - 11:27 am | #

Larry also forgot about "Signs" a beautifully moving movie of lost and regained faith starring Mel as the minister who loses his faith after his wife's death and regains it when some weird happenings come to his farm town. A beautiful film, if anyone hasn't seen it, do so!!!
Mel himself has talked about living the vida loca and how it wasn't satisfying and how he had alcohol and drug abuse problems and he turned back to God. As to whether he is a schismatic or not, well, he may be, his dad certainly is, but during the movie shooting, they had Latin Mass everyday offered by a priest in communion with Rome. If in fact Mel is a schismatic, I am praying for him to return to the Church by way of finding an indult Mass he can attend.
Marty | 02.26.04 - 10:18 am | #