We also have to remember that whatever happens in Rome will take quite a while to filter down to our local parishes. JPtG called on *us* to be the instigators of the new evangelization. We have to help light that fire where we live. The roll of leadership is always to inspire those being lead to do and be their best. We should take this joy at the election of Benedict XVI and use it to change our own little patch of ground with the help the Holy Spirit and the prayers of the saints.
John Hearn | 04.20.05 - 1:31 pm | #

It may never "filter down to our parishes" (at least in the US) until our priests and even bishops begin to realize that obedience is not optional because their "boss" lives in another country.
Tony Miller | Homepage | 04.20.05 - 1:33 pm | #

Well, it's truth that sets us free, and the first step to accepting the truth is being honest with oneself. I don't want anyone to leave the Church, but I know that many people who have already left the Church in thought, word, and deed continue to call themselves Catholic.

I can't see what spiritual benefit exists for them to continue being dishonest with themselves by professing a faith they don't believe. By admitting that they do not hold the Catholic faith, and repudiating the name, they at least admit that the Catholic faith is objective - that it really does mean something apart from their opinions; and that a connection exists between who they are, what they believe, and what they do. That's not much, but it may be the necessary seeds for a genuine conversion.

So I do hope that Benedict's papacy will drive heretics out of the Church - not because I desire their damnation, but because I desire their salvation - and salvation can never be predicated on a lie.
hieronymus | 04.20.05 - 1:33 pm | #

Mark,

As usual, timely and relevant insight. I, for one, know that I could have easily walked the dissident road were it not for divine timing and the meeting of holy and faithful Catholics along my "faith journey." You're right, it is crucial to remember that God desires ALL of us to be with Him in eternity. Now...if only my human pride could get out of the way.

Thanks, Mark.

Nerina
Nerina | 04.20.05 - 2:51 pm | #

I don't want anybody to leave the Church but I don't want them to hang around in their dissenting, cafeteria Catholic mode and mess up people's faith, screw around with the liturgy, etc. What I wish is that these people would convert and see the light. It has happened. But if they aren't, maybe they should leave if they no longer really believe. Who knows, they might "revert". That has happened, too.

First, a new, more orthodox bishop for my diocese. Now a worthy successor to JPII. Am trying very hard not to have attitude of "Neener, neener, neener, nadda nadda boo boo".
I think it's called "schaudenfruede". A German word, how appropriate!!!!
Marty | 04.20.05 - 3:13 pm | #

Mark, I think you've got the wrong idea about N.O.Watch. They've always been quite open about being Sedes. Never made a secret of it. I would be very surprised if they cared that people like us cared what they did or said.
hilary | Homepage | 04.20.05 - 3:30 pm | #

I grew up Evangelical and going from church to church to keep building your faith was considered ok. I guess I don't understand if some of these cafeteria Catholics dislike being catholic so much why don't they become Unitarians, Lutherans or go where ever they can find peace and a group of people who believe as they do.Lutherans believe in the real Presence during communion and you'll find women ministers wearing collars.
katrina | 04.20.05 - 3:51 pm | #

Hilary:

It's not that they're Sedes. It's that they still hang around the Church after declaring that It's Not Really Here. If it's somewhere else, they should go there. But instead they are still here, testifying by their presence, if not their words, that Here is where the Church is.
Mark Shea | 04.20.05 - 3:58 pm | #

The other thing about Novus Ordo Watch is that they don't seem to have any interest in seeing the sede filled.

You'd think they'd give the new guy a week or so, at least, before pouncing.

At least the SSPX put out a cautiously optimistic message. I hope they can be regularized soon.
B Knotts | Homepage | 04.20.05 - 4:34 pm | #

What hieronymus said is right on the mark.
diana | 04.20.05 - 6:51 pm | #

Is it fair to talk about hoping that people reject the faith and leave the Church? The thing is that if you reject the faith, you do leave the Church; this is a matter of theology (nad even of canon law). I don't think anyone hopes that people who have the faith will reject it. What they do hope is that peole who have rejected the faith, and thus left the Church, will leave the employment they have in church positions, and thus be in less of a position to corrupt other people's faith.
John Lamont | 04.21.05 - 7:56 am | #

For my part, the desire to see them walk is always with the hope that they will return after a conversion of heart. Some folks simply don't appraciate or understand the nature of the church and abuse it as dissidents because of that. Maybe if they saw what was 'out there', they'd have a greater appreciation. Didn't St. Paul even talk about handing someone over to Satan to more or less teach them a lesson, but with the hope of repentence?

Some coddling, and working with a rebellious adolescent is called for, but I think once they are an adult and tolerance has proven inneffective, a parent sometime NEEDS to toss them out on their heine so they can see the consequences of their actions/beleifs. Often times, such a course leads to the child seeing just how wise the parent really was. And isn't that how most of the dissidents behave? Like rebellious adolescents?
Steve Galvanek | 04.21.05 - 8:03 am | #

Yeah, I've always held that it would be better for them to leave than to keep making a mockery of doctrine, demanding the Chruch conform to them, and (as in the case of Por-abortion politicians) continuing to perform their weekly sacrelidge. But at the same time, I've always known that by far the best thing would be for them to, like the prodigal son we must all follow at some point in some way, grow up, make some some sacrifices, swallow some pride and come home to Rome.

They need to learn what I kept in mind during the whole Iraq war thing (which you remember I supported): The Church does not exist to validate my political views, and it certainly doesn't exist to validate your heretical ones.
Jonathan Lee | Homepage | 04.23.05 - 2:42 pm | #

I think of the church just got back to teaching Catholicism and sound doctrine, and did away with ecumenism, no one would dare say anything, but when you go to mass now days with the Novus Ordo, you can get 10 different masses with 3 different greetings and all kinds of innovations all in the same weekend if you wanted to. The Traditional Mass is a mass of reverence and is austere and beautiful, the way God was and should be worshipped. The mass the fed the souls of saints and martyrs for centuries
John | 07.28.05 - 2:54 pm | #