Because we can't grasp that some people are ready to take up a life of self-denial in exchange for finally having an oasis of meaning in the post-modern desert.

A while back, I was reading a review of The Mortorcycle Diaries on a movie webpage, and the reviewer asked about an incident in which the nuns of a leper colony insisted that everyone at the colony attend Mass before eating breakfast. The reviewer asked: Were the nuns right to deny food to Guevara for not attending mass? If they had shown more compassion, perhaps Guevara would not have come to view the church as a source of injustice, and perhaps he would not have gone on to become an anti-religious, communist revolutionary.

My answer is: In a word, yes, they were right to do so. The first responsibility of the Church has been to see to the spiritual well-being of the individual-- the material needs come second, sometimes a distant second.

The fact that I got static over my comment shows that the disbelief in self-denial is present in the Christian community too, and that it's been here for quite some time.
Dennis_Mahon | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 8:15 pm | #

"several thousand" each year in all of Europe? Doesn't sound like much to me.
Tim Young | 12.28.05 - 8:15 pm | #

So we hope that our diseased Western spirituality of blenders, TVs, abortion, torture, hedonism, and horses and chariots will do the trick.

Give it up, Mark.

Whatever might be said of the post-modern West or its particular diseases (some of which you accurately identify here and elsewhere), torture is not its invention, not something it practices routinely or particularly extensively, not something it uniquely rationalizes (or rather, only the pomo West sees any need to rationalize it).

To use your lingo, there may be a "coalition for fog" today, but until, historically-speaking, the day before yesterday, "fog" didn't need such a coalition because torture (and "torture") was considered natural and universal. If anything, the opposite is the case. It's the coalition against "fog" that has arisen while the West has declined into its current state. I'm not necessarily claiming causation, but there can be no two opinions that the two phenomena (less torture and tougher strictures against it, on the one hand, and the descent of the West into the diseased pomo morass) have occurred at more or less the same time.

Which makes your citing torture in that litany nothing short of wack.
Victor Morton | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 8:16 pm | #

On the whole, I'd prefer Western paganism to win.

Sounds like "my country - right or wrong".

I think we'd do better to go for what those converting to Islam are going for, which is God.

God Bless
Chris Sullivan | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 8:47 pm | #

No, Chris. It's "better the devil you know". But thanks for that bit of mind-reading judgmentalism.
Mark P. Shea | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 8:58 pm | #

What do you have against blenders?
Sydney Carton | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 9:40 pm | #

It is a mistake, a conceit really, to think that a spiritually lifeless, morally flat society can persist. It can?t and it won?t. The only question is what will it slide into, or maybe what will slide into it to it, bogus or not, to fill the human longing for meaning in life.

Militant European radical secularism may have had its run. Oh sure, they got some licks in during the 20th century ? killed a few million, attacked (even eliminated) believers, and all that. But now? It?s hard to get the followers motivated if even the leaders just can?t muster much enthusiasm for an all-encompassing faith in the enlightened, guilt-free, future. In many ways that future?s been delivered, and it?s pretty boring, or even worse, depressing.

So what?s new on the menu? It?s got to be non-Christian, even anti-Christian of course. It?s got to look up-and-coming, like a winner. The trend, the image, the matter of style you know. Got to have the bully factor behind it. As in, which side is it safest to take in order to avoid the attention of bullies? Well, let?s see. A variant of Islam that both claims to protect women, AND quietly tolerates rape and honor killing, even if just for the example to deviants you know. But more persuasive demonstrations, let us say, are available if necessary. A religio-polity that codifies violence against mundane expressions of non-adherents. That?ll work, at least initially on the most suggestive ? the spiritually desperate housewives (or housewives-to-be) one might say. That?s stage one.

If it goes well and becomes firmly entrenched, it can spread. A society already under a reign of unquestionable obedience to social/political truisms that strike even their proponents as odd enough that they have to be enforced by coercion, is a society pre-adapted to simply switching truisms, even a complete day-for-night switch. Has libertinism been hawked, guarded from the natural corrective of social stigma? Well it?s easier to flip it into puritanical zealotry than you might think. Think not? Well why did the term ?puritanical? communicate something commonly understood to you so easily then? (Hint ? go back and construct the historical sequence to the use of the term.)

Sure, it?s either the Truth about man, or lies. That means essentially Catholic Christian truth, understood as truth in charity, in humility, but robustly lived and believed. That truth, rightly understood of course, safeguards the rights of all in their integral human freedom, Protestant, Orthodox, our Jewish brothers and sisters, secularists, Hindus, non-violent Muslims, etc. But a vacuum? No, that will fill up with something. And it?s getting clearer all the time what the leading candidate is for that fill-up.

This shouldn?t be seen as an issue of fear of the rise of a foreign ?other.? A big part of the problem has been the lack of courage on the part of those entrusted with the Truth. The attitude has emerged ? ?Why struggle so, when you can just get along by going along? Believing, proclaiming, and acting on belief is just so ? so tiring, you know. And modernity, well it looked down on us, so it must have been our fault, right?? If we just focus on apologizing for our beliefs enough, throw out a few, loosen up, have some fun, join the party, they?ll leave us alone, right? Then the future will go on just like the past, right?

I wouldn?t bet on it. First the weak-willed and easily dominated flip. Then the conditioned. And finally comes a confrontation with the resisters, and at a time and in circumstances that are not necessarily favorable to them. That?s a guaranteed outcome for the lukewarm ? they will ultimately get as much of the faith as they are actually actually committed to, which, unfortunately for them, may be none at all.
Glenn Juday | 12.28.05 - 9:54 pm | #

Excellent comments, Glenn.
Donna | 12.29.05 - 12:12 am | #

Speaking of the spiritual deadness and moral flatness of modern Europe, here's a story I found at "Open Book" which absolutely floors me:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/596

The EU has decreed that physicians have a "moral" obligation to provide women with abortions - nevermind any pesky religious qualms they might feel. That goes for Polish and Slovak physicians too.

Eastern Europe: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Donna | 12.29.05 - 12:37 am | #

The miracle is that she came back to Catholicism through the influence of the Paulists!
Mark Gordon | 12.29.05 - 8:19 am | #

Victor,

excuse my ignorance, but what is "pomo"?
c matt | 12.29.05 - 9:18 am | #

c matt:

Pomo=postmodern
Diana | 12.29.05 - 10:00 am | #

Diana:

Thanks. I thought it said "porno".
Anonymous | 12.29.05 - 11:05 am | #

Thanks Diana. Makes sense now.

As for the topic, void has something to do with it, but I think a deeper problem is the dumbing down of the West. The West now equates technological improvements with intellectual progress. The fact is your average westerner is far less educated in the things that really matter (inlcuding how to reason well) than he was 100 years ago, alhtough he may know a lot more information about DNA, polycarbons, solar gasses, etc. Information does not equal intelligence. But because of the technological whiz-bang all around us, it is difficult to recognize that dumbing-down (try holding a rational conversation with someone). Aside from Christianity (in particular, Catholicism), the West offers no real intellectual stimuli anymore.

Islam (or at least Islam as conceived by western converts to it) offers some uncharted newness. But I suspect that once its 3 inches of depth have been explored, it loses its allure (no wonder they have to kill apostates).
c matt | 12.29.05 - 11:54 am | #

I think that a real part of the problem is also a profound ignorance of what Christianity actually is. A lot of people seem to view it as very child-like, and I'm not entirely sure why that is.

During a class about Jewish culture, one student declared that she was really impressed by the dedication it took to convert to Judaism. The effort shows that it means something. Not like with Christianity where you can just say I'm Catholic or I'm Baptist and then you're a Christian.
Marie | 12.29.05 - 12:23 pm | #

I can tell you absolutely first hand that the reason women are going over to Islam is fashion. (Remember that stupid Canadian reporter wearing that getup with the veil while she reported from overseas? She really was an ass.)

I am in the thick of it here with these women, both those born to the Moslem world and three American women that have a foot in the door. And that is all they will have as they don't give a hoot about Islam or any other religion. Under those raggy looking costumes the women can hide their fat backsides, hairy arms and legs and homely faces. And THAT is straight from their own lips. The moslem-born ones that are not too inbred are not as homely and can be down right pretty. I met one.

Those born into it are about as religious as Mickey Mouse. (The same goes for the men who haven't seen a prayer rug or the inside of a mosque since they left their homeland) The women are the most shamefully superficial females I have ever met. They would abandon their own children for the sake of a pair of shoes in a new shade of lime green. And they are lazy and have unimaginably dirty homes.

Morals or a sense of decency or conscience? Forget about it! The men smoke, drink, try drugs, covet wives and break every other law they were to hold. The biggest joke of all is, smoke, drink and drugs are bad for everybody yet those laws they openly break. Pork on the otherhand is as good a meat to eat as any other but THAT absolutely stupid law they choose to keep. Go figure.

They have no special bonding to their mothers because the lazy cows let everybody else around them raise their children. Too much work! Status is to have servants! And they in turn do the same with their own children. But, oh their papas are something special. There is a sort of perversity there. The women coo and whine to their fathers and try to please them more than their own husbands. Of course, they will do anything for a cheap piece of jewelry and daddy hands them out like candy. He has all the money (their TRUE god) because by marrying off the daughters and holding their sons-in-law "hostage" they work them for free like slaves. All for lies and their daughters' promises that never come true. Their fathers use them to control the husbands/boyfriends and also the fathers love the adoration they get if they wave a tacky piece of costume jewelry at them. Daddy is always number #1.

The three western women mentioned here have absolutely no desire of Islam other than the pajama type clothing that covers a multitude of flaws and the junk jewelry and false status within their boyfriends' families (which is actually one family as they are all intertwined).

Lets not forget the free trips abroad to the homelands. They get treated as a novelty the first time or two they go there then after that they are just a source of amusement. Some of these pathetic women have never left their own hometowns. They think they are experiencing something wonderful.

And how are they looked upon by their boyfriends and their families? Well, the other women either use them to get things they couldn't otherwise or laugh at them for trying to be a moslem chic. The husbands/boyfriends use them for...now hold onto your seats...sex. They let them bear children once in a while and then they have no more use for them. And why should they? Their religion allows for a new wife whenever they feel the urge. Most of these couples are all living in sin anyway.

Although a RARE few of the men would make a decent American citizen the bulk of them should be packed into a can of lard and sent home. Maybe their culture tolerates liars and thieves, ours does not. Their women except for that same RARE FEW could possibly be made into floorlamps covered in sequins and fringe.

The American women who sold their souls for hip-hiders and a veil are so unclean that no Western man would (or should) want them. God is more forgiving.

And for the record...not one of these 3 lost souls I mention were ever Christian. They could have been. They were certainly handed The Faith. But like the hard and rocky soils of Scripture, The Word did not grow. They sold out their God and their country for what most of us would use for toilet paper.
anonymous for obvious reasons | 12.29.05 - 12:25 pm | #

Marie:
"where you can just say I'm Catholic"..humm, as someone from evangelical/charismatic background currently doing RCIA to the dismay of my friends, "just say" is..uh..hilarious.
thomas | Homepage | 12.29.05 - 12:30 pm | #

Thomas,
As someone who just spent a year in RCIA, I would have to agree with you.
Marie | 12.29.05 - 12:42 pm | #

I suspect the depravity of pornocracy can sometimes make even Talibanesque puritanism attractive, simply because the latter actually has an ideal of chastity, however misguided.

Considering some of the unspeakable things advertised in my e-mail spam, I reckon there are cases where Islam could actually be an improvement.
Kevin Jones | Homepage | 12.29.05 - 1:06 pm | #

I think a large part is that people think they know Christianity because it's part of their culture. No need to delve deeper - they already know it! No reading up on the Church Fathers, investigating vocations, understanding heresies, knowing the history of the Church, etc.

But when their faith gets tested and what they "knew" doesn't hold up anymore, it fails to provide them the spiritual assistance they need.

At that point, they are looking for strength. But it's much easier for them to get involved with something they know nothing about - whether it's Islam, Buddhism, New Age, Wicca, whatever - than think that there may be untapped resources about their childhood religion they don't know or haven't investigated.

Also, because they are acquainted with Christianity, they know the points where the pedagogy was weak (for whatever reason) and believers who are hypocrites. The new religion is blank slate to them though, and they don't know the pitfalls or dilemmas of that theology, or see the seamy side.
Chris Durnell | 12.29.05 - 1:16 pm | #

Another thing to remember that people are attracted to strength and conviction. Those people who keep their faith in a foreign land possess that conviction, and it is easy for people to buy into that enthusiasm and the authority it generates.

And in the West, being religious is something of an embarassment. Or worse, what authority figures we have discredit themselves. If you're given a choice between the vasicilating and hypocritical versus the confidant and assure, who would you pick?
Chris Durnell | 12.29.05 - 1:27 pm | #

Anon:

That French chick in the lead story certainly didn't look like she had anything that needed hiding behind a burka. While that may have been true for the three you know, I doubt that explains most of it. The dumbing down and ignorance of what they have - or can get - out of Christianity seems to explain more.
c matt | 12.29.05 - 1:29 pm | #

Chris,

I feel that your post is quite true. Let's not run and hide...Search for the truth and it will be found.
Kevin | 12.29.05 - 2:12 pm | #

Maybe SOT, but I see a similar pattern for those who leave Catholicism for more outwardly emotionally engaging practices, and specifically because of the emotional aspect of the new practice. Its as though they never came across the OT passage about not finding God in the thunder, rain or blasting wind, but in the quiet gentle breeze.
c matt | 12.29.05 - 2:21 pm | #

"Anonymous for obvious reasons" states that male Muslims should be killed and rendered down to lard, and that Muslim women should have their skins turned into lampshades. Sounds more like Hitler (or certain Bin Ladenites) than any Christianity deserving the name. This troll needs banning.
hibernicus | 12.29.05 - 3:48 pm | #

BTW: denouncing people who call for Muslims to be turned into lard & lampshades no more makes me a Muslim than condemning the imam recently (& rightly) jailed in Britain for saying Hindus should be burned in furnaces to fuel power stations makes me a supporter of Hindu extremists who murder Christian missionaries.
hibernicus | 12.29.05 - 4:27 pm | #

Actually, I find this whole post offensive. I just got the chariot back from the wash and horses curry-combed. Now, I have to get rid of them? Nice.
Fr. Shane Tharp | Homepage | 12.29.05 - 5:50 pm | #

You know, Blender is a great open-source graphics program, and you're telling me I have to go buy Corel? That's stupid.
Ed the Roman | 12.29.05 - 6:49 pm | #

Mark said, "We will simply be two great pagan systems at war. On the whole, I'd prefer Western paganism to win."

Actually I agree with him. I've just finished reading "The Bad Catholic's Guide To Good Living". No way could that book exist in a an Islamic dominant culture. Come to think on it, it's a miracle it even made it on the book shelves of Western Culture. If there was ever such a thing as an Athiest (or Protestant) Index. This book would surely be top of the list and its authors both on the run from the 'religion' police.

But getting serious I think Islam is God's wire brush treatment of Western Culture to bring it back to God. If so called Christians truly followed Christ, Islam wouldn't survive in the blasting heat of Christian virtue coming at it.
Another Steve | Homepage | 12.29.05 - 6:51 pm | #

I have read in several places that several thousand Muslims convert to Catholicism each year in France alone. Assumedly at elast half of them are women, probably more. The traffic goes both ways. One German priest says that his organization receives many inquiries from Muslims who wish to keep a very low profile. Since many of the Turkish and North African Muslims in Europe are practicing their faith little or not at all, there could be an evangelizing opportunity if only the Church could get her act in Order. Evidently, Muslims tend to consider the Catholic Church as expression of Christianity, maybe for historical reasons.
Arnold | 12.29.05 - 7:29 pm | #

I meant to say "as THE expression of Christianity".
Arnold | 12.29.05 - 7:30 pm | #

I imagine that many women convert to Islam out of a belief in chastity, modesty in dress, men acting responsibly etc. that they don't feel is taught in Western churches.

I don't think Islam is all that great in this regard, but I doubt that the local "Islamic center" is teaching that we all get to God in our own way, just be a good person and the like.
Jeb Protestant | 12.29.05 - 8:34 pm | #

Everybody is missing the point. European women are converting to Islam because of European men. Most guys are so wimpy and feminized now. What woman really wants a man that she can dominate and who seems to care for nothing except having an easy time? I know that's what the feminists say we should want but who really does deep in her heart? The Muslim man seems like a macho character. He's so sure that he's right. He seems so gallant and exotic. Back in the 80s and early 90s when many of these poor twits were girls the most popular romance novel heroes were either American Indians or Arabs sheikhs. Old dreams die hard.
dymphna | Homepage | 12.30.05 - 7:37 am | #