Not a "church", since no sacramentally valid apostolic succession. So you have done well not to call them a "church" but a communion.

As for "Christian"?

It might be more accurate to say "post-Christian".
Fr. Stephanos, O.S.B. | Homepage | 04.26.06 - 12:06 pm | #

Horrible. Evil. Sts. Andrew, Columba, Kentigern, Cuthbert, Margaret, David - pray for Scotland.
henry o | 04.26.06 - 3:04 pm | #

Are there any protestant denominations that Rome doesn't consider Christian anymore?

Is the UCC Christian? Is Spong and Rowan Williams' outfit Christian?
Jeb Protestant | 04.26.06 - 7:57 pm | #

If a communion professes faith in the creed or in the substance of the Creed (essentially the Trinity and Trinitarian baptism), it's Christian. Doesn't mean you're a good Christian (remember the Church warns that a Christian can go to hell by mortal sin). But the Church doesn't much go in for playing the "Who's really a Christian?" game based on behavior like many Evangelicals do (so convenient for distancing oneself from embarrassing scandals with the old "Oh. He wasn't *really* a Christian" schtick that Evangelical love). If a communion professes faith in the God of the creed, as far as the Church is concerned, it's Christian (though individual member--like Spong--may make it clear they are apostate by their rejection of the Trinity). The Church mostly operates by, "You can pick your friends, but you're stuck with your relatives."
Mark Shea | Homepage | 04.26.06 - 8:30 pm | #

So the Episcopal Church is Christian? Even though its leadership denies the Trinity as historically understood, it is Christian so long as it doesn't say "we repudiate the Nicean Creed"?
Jeb Protestant | 04.26.06 - 9:24 pm | #

Jeb:

The Episcopal Church is not like the Catholic Church. Pronouncements by what they call a hierarchy are not binding on the individuals. They have no magisterium and you can find an Episcopalian who believes just about anything.

So you can stop waving your finger and yelling: "Oh, yeah, what about...." and actually LOOK at the Catholic Church and its real position on various denominations.
John J. Simmins | Homepage | 04.26.06 - 9:40 pm | #

This is where my heart warms for the Orthodox. With an increasing number of Protestant denominations, the Orthodox are baptising absolutely, not conditionally, because they do not recognize the entering member as having been a Christian. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point Rome does the same. That is just my opinion based on actions taken regarding recognizing ordinations from other faiths.
M.Z. Forrest | Homepage | 04.26.06 - 11:03 pm | #

Didn't Dominus Ieusus make the distinction between "Churches" (RC and Orth.) and "ecclesial communities" like our separated bretheren?
Mike E. | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 2:40 am | #

Wasn't it the view of some that "ensoulment" didn't occur until some time after birth? For those who believe in this, what would be the actual theological difference between destruction of an embryo and the taking of part of one ligament to repair an ACL injury?
HokiePundit | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 9:52 am | #

St. Thomas speculated that ensoulment took place 40 days after conception. This was not to undermine the idea that killing a baby in that time period was not a mortal sin, but that it might not be *quite* as serious as after 40 days. Both were mortal sins, both consigned you to Hell, but you'd get a different punishment. Variety, as anyone who has read the Inferno, is the spice of death.
A. Nonymouse | 04.27.06 - 10:14 am | #

Even if there is no soul before 40 days or 14 days, killing the embryo is then contraception which is also gravely immoral. It is a moot point, but it gets blurred when you allow contraception as I imagine Ecclesial Community of Scotland does.
andrew | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 10:27 am | #

Jeb:

It would appear you are one of those Protestants who simultaneously condemns the Catholic Church for not condemning as "false brethren" those you condemn, while also condemning the Church as arrogant for condemning whatever it is you happen to approve. My apologies for the Church not being the Church of Jeb, but there it is.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 12:15 pm | #

Man, this is a lot of snark about what is and is not a "Church." Maybe next we can say that the Roman Catholic Church is not a "body of believers," as the number of nominal Roman Catholics who actually believe Christianity has dwindled to a minute number (similar to the principle of Communion wine no longer being the Blood of Christ once it has been diluted enough).
HokiePundit | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 5:26 pm | #

Mark,

Where would you draw the line?

Would you attend the installation ceremony of a follower of John Spong who was named a bishop of the ECUSA?

Would you attend an ecumenical service presided over by someone who publicly said the holocuast is a hoax?
Jeb Protestant | 04.27.06 - 6:22 pm | #

My chances of going to an ECUSA ordination are extremely low. So why on earth should I bother my head with such a question?

If Spiderman and Magneto got in fight, who would you support? Why? Remember: I'm judging the quality of your faith life based on your answer, Jeb!

Sheesh!
Mark Shea | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 6:52 pm | #

Hokie:

Jeb seems to be the only one in a huge hurry to make sure people get drummed out of the Church. So I don't know what you are talking about. My own attitude is to assume that anybody who names the Name is to be regarded as, in some sense, a Christian. Doesn't mean I agree with them about everything. But I figure deciding who's in Christ is above my pay grade.
Mark Shea | Homepage | 04.27.06 - 6:55 pm | #

Mark,

If you were invited would you go?

I mean, you must draw the line somewhere, don't you?
Jeb Protestant | 04.27.06 - 7:42 pm | #

If Spiderman and Magneto got in fight, who would you support?

Morally or in a betting pool?
Publius | Homepage | 04.28.06 - 1:39 am | #