Ah--it's forthrightly listed as "Private Function" on the parish calendar.

No pun intended, I'm sure.

http://www.huntcal.com/cgi/event...d=147903087& d=2
Dale Price | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 4:11 pm | #

It is a charity fundraiser, which happens about once a month, since September.

So, maybe you don't like the fundraising activity. I don't care for "Late Night Catechism," either, but I'm not going to start a campaign to stop it.

"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things charity."
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 4:32 pm | #

According to the web site "MHR prides itself in being an inclusive Catholic community -- embracing all people of good faith -- Catholics as well as those people interested in learning about the Catholic experience -- regardless of their background, gender, race, social status or sexual orientation."

I'm all for outreach, but I somehow doubt the congregation is instructed that sex (hetero or homo) outside marriage is sin.
Tim Brandenburg | 10.26.06 - 5:00 pm | #

This parish also lists the following links on their site (in order as they appear on the site):

* Archdiocese of San Francisco Web Site
* FAQs About the Catholic Church from AmericanCatholic.org.
* Web Site of the Vatican
* Liturgy of the Hours Apostolate

(This is about to go downhill quickly, though not everything below is bad.)

* Gay Catholic Forum
* Dignity/San Francisco is a self-governing faith community of gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgendered Catholics, our families and our friends.
* Voice of the Faithful
* Pax Christi USA
* Catholic Charities of California
* Martin de Porres House
* Mercy Housing
* Mercy Center
* Conference for Catholic Lesbians, Inc. (cuz you don't want to end up at a parish where they speak the truth about homosexual lifestyles)
* Masstimes.org (I guess in case you're willing to take the chance on the above. I use this all the time.)

Then there are the additional community resources, which has the Human Rights Commission, etc.

But one of the MOST interesting parts is the "Religious or Other Social Resources" section, which includes the following:

* Belief.Net ("Learn about other religious traditions...")
* The Charles M. Holmes Campus at The Center ("San Francisco's GLBT community center.")
* Metropolitan Community Church ("A house of prayer for all people. A home for queer spirituality.")
* Sha'ar Zahav ("...a vibrant kehila (Jewish community) in the San Francisco Bay Area for people of all sexual identities.")
* Golden Gate Lutheran Church ("Reconciling in Christ (RIC) is a program of Lutherans Concerned/North America recognizing Lutheran congregations that welcome persons of all sexual orientations and gender identities. Begun in 1984, the RIC program has experienced amazing growth in the last few years. We believe its grass roots approach is the best way to help reform the church, one community at a time. Your congregation is part of a movement that embodies the Gospel of love and grace for all people.")
* St. Francis Lutheran Church (Where they have "a somewhat traditional service on Sunday morning, yet use inclusive language in our songs and liturgy.")
* New Leaf Services ("nonprofit multi-purpose counseling center for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) communities of San Francisco and the surrounding Bay Area.")
* Diamond Senior Center (first thing on this list that doesn't seem to include something about homosexuals)
* Religious Witness with Homeless People (Nothing strange there, for once.)
* Dolores Street Community Services (Again, nothing wrong here.)
* Glide Memorial United Methodist Church (back to advertising denominational churches again)
* Larkin Street Youth (which looks to be a good service to kids who are out on the streets, working to educate and employ them, as well as providing them with housing, if necessary)

My biggest question here is this: why is this parish reinforcing destructive and immoral behavior, and my next biggest question is why are they advertising other denominations on their parish site? I've never seen a parish site that gives you options to just go elsewhere to worship. What a weird place!

(Sorry for the length of the post here.)
Christine | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 5:02 pm | #

Old Zhou: I try to respect the free expression and speech of others. I do not think that AIDS fundraisers are inappropriate for a Catholic Church parish venue, even AIDS fundraisers hosted by flaming homosexuals and/or drag queens with a need to satirize the Catholic Church. So long as it's clean, I don't have a problem with using the church hall as a venue.

But I do not think that porn DVDs and sex toys belong in a parish hall, sorry. For once I disagree with you.
elmo | 10.26.06 - 5:05 pm | #

True charity would include ministering to homosexuals and trying to help them overcome it. It's a destructive behavior.

And, yes, I think that if they did it without the dirty toys and without the transvestite-mocking-of-nuns part, I would have zero problem with them hosting AIDS fundraisers. AIDS is a big problem in S.F., and the Church should help people. But, again, true charity includes telling the truth (or should I say Truth) about homosexuality and the Catholic teachings on it. This parish seems to only reinforce it.
Christine | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 5:08 pm | #

Well, if you want to take to the time to bring this parish and what goes on there to the attention of their bishop(s) (as if the bishops did not already know)...what about the parish participation in the Gay Pride Parade. There were number 164 in the Parade Line-Up, (wearing parish t-shirts, so everybody knows they are from Most Holy Redeemer parish). The "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" organize the street party in the Castro on that day, Pink Saturday, so they don't march in the parade.

If you want to raise a fuss about the company the parish keeps, you will inevitable find youself making a fuss about the parish itself and many of its activities.

Is that what you want?

Remember, this is a Catholic parish in the Castro neighborhood of San Francisco.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 5:31 pm | #

*blink*
Who actually thought this was a good idea?
Richard | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 6:20 pm | #

Old Zhou: So what are you saying? Are you saying that the Church should accommodate itself to the predominant culture even when this culture is directly opposed to it? Are you saying that as long as this is what the community wants The Catholic Church should be a venue for giving away porn DVDs and vibrators?
elmo | 10.26.06 - 6:21 pm | #

Elmo,

What I'm saying is that this "hospitality" to the Sisters for their monthly fundraising party is not some isolated thing that can be zapped by "unleashing the power of the blog" in a tsunami of protest at the relevant powers that be (the Bishops and the ArchBishop of San Francisco).

This is nothing new, unusual, or "outside the norm" of the many public activities of that parish in its environment. The territory of that parish is the Castro. I imagine that, while some parishioners might not care for the Sisters, probably many support the Sisters in their fundraising, community support and artistic expression.

But it is their decision. It is up to the parishioners, to the Pastor (who seems to be quite undisturbed by this), and by their bishops (who realize their need to welcome and minister to the community).

It is really not a matter to be decided by someone sitting far, far away behind a computer keyboard who is not involved in the actual community on the ground there in the Castro.

And, you know, I know lots of nice suburban parishes where the occasional parties get a bit wild and risque, within sight of the tabernacle, or where the Pastor might watch a film of questionable moral value on his television, or tell a naughty joke, in his rectory adjacent to the Sanctuary.

In short, actually get involved with this parish, or get a life and leave them alone.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 6:29 pm | #

Old Zhou: I don't know if this is quite the same thing as "risque" parties in suburban parishes (which I've never witnessed) or the occaisonal sin committed by the pastor (and all of us). There is a difference between the Church being a place where sin takes place because the people inside are mortals prone to sin, and being a venue where sin is encouraged and sacrilege is celebrated.

This is a case where the parish is giving scandal by letting its facilities be used for handing out vibrators and porn as door prizes.

I have mixed feelings about "unleashing the power of the blog" but as far as your reponse that only those who live in the community have the right to respond. Well, no, we are all part of the Body of Christ, and we are called to speak up when something like this is going on. If more people spoke up we wouldn't have had the scandals in the Church that we are still reeling over.
elmo | 10.26.06 - 6:47 pm | #

Old Zhou,

I am a huge fan of yours. I am regularly dazzled by your depth of insight and encyclopedic knowledge of all manner of Catholic esoterica.

I know it's San Francisco, and I know it's your hometown. I know this parish lies in the heart of the gay universe (the Castro). And I agree in principle that we should strive for charity in all things.

But frankly "revolting sacrilege" is too weak a word for what this is. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence mock and insult actual sisters who have made monumental sacrifices for Christ for centuries. They're mocking them IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH whilst distributing gay porn dvds and sex toys IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH.

And you suggest that those who feel moved to protest GET A LIFE?

You disappoint me, Old Zhou.
CV | 10.26.06 - 6:53 pm | #

Elmo & CV, you DO have a right to respond. Tell YOUR pastor that you don't want this to be going on in YOUR parish. Maybe even tell YOUR bishop that you don't want this going on in YOUR diocese.

But unless you actually lived in San Francisco, and were familiar with the events in the Castro and the parish, well, what are you going to do? Start an email campaign based on what you saw on the internet? Did you actually go to Sisters' Bingo and receive anything naughty?

Believe me, the Bishops have bigger fish to fry, and you should, too. This is Camp Bingo, for cryin' out loud, in the downstairs parish hall in the Castro. (Not in the Church.) Who cares? You should see what goes on in the adjacent buildings, or out the windows.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 7:06 pm | #

The Zhou doth protest too much, methinks.

But it's good to know that any group should be welcome in parish halls where it has a decent presence in the surrounding community.

I know of quite a few groups who pay well for event space and who don't even mock religious women and Catholic practices openly.
Jay E. Adrian | 10.26.06 - 7:18 pm | #

Hey, what's the problem? Let's all accomodate the sins of our surrounding parishioners- have the local wife-swapping Christmas party at the parish hall, provide K-Y and rubber carpets for the nearby Group Sex Forum, etc. We want to be inclusive don't we? Otherwise, they might (shudder) think we are irrelevant.
thomas tucker | 10.26.06 - 7:29 pm | #

Does anyone remember 1987, when Pope John Paul II came to San Francisco, and the Sisters of PI did an "exorcism" on him?

Or 1999, when the Archdiocese made a big public and political stink over the Sisters of PI having a city permit for their 20th anniversary parade (on Easter Sunday)?

Maybe this is actually an attempt at trying something new. Be nice to the heretics. Give them (one) place to have their monthly bingo party. Even if you can't convert them, at least turn down the level of public conflict. Maybe they won't be quite such a pain in the behind of the Archdiocese.

Obviosuly, 25 years of head-on confrontation between the Church and the Sisters of PI did not seem to solve the conflict.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 7:56 pm | #

One final comment on this.

So, after 25 years of high profile conflict, which often ended up with the Church getting a lot of bad ink in the City, suppose the new Archbishop wants to try something new: just the tiniest of olive branches. Not of approval, but of more peaceful tolerance (in the good sense) since both organizations, the Church and the Sisters of PI, are not going to be vacating the City any time soon.

So one parish, the parish most suited to a bit of neighborly kindness to the Sisters of PI (the parish in their neighborhood, and not totally grossed out by them), offers their parish hall for a once a month charitable fundraiser. This is not an "activity" of the parish. It is not an "activity" of the Church. It is just a bit of neighborliness with an irritating (to the Church) neighbor who is not going away any time soon.

Maybe it will turn down the anti-Catholic rhetoric a bit, especially in the public square. I don't think it would hurt to try. Calling them heretics who are all going to burn in hell does not seem to be working.

But, hey, if you all want to send an email of protest to the Archbishop, his fellow bishops, and the Pastor. Go ahead. But they are already very familiar with the Sisters of PI.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 8:33 pm | #

So....since they are obvious enemies of the Church, the Church *owes* it to the SPI to give them a place where they can mock Christ, sell sex toys, and trade porn DVD's? And after that, no further territorial claims in San Francisco?

Right.
Mark P. Shea | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 8:34 pm | #

Yeah! The ArchBishop is going to do something! People wake up Iam not saying all Bishops , but many are partaking in the lifestyle themselves!! So you wonder why things like this are going on in a Catholic parish! Neverless we have a duty to stop it !!!! If we don't use the power of the Blog and other means to expose this sacrilige we will have to answer to God on Judgement Day! So lets get rolling or should I say blogging,emailing, writing , calling to expose this!!!
Mike | 10.26.06 - 9:16 pm | #

Old Zhou says:

"It is really not a matter to be decided by someone sitting far, far away behind a computer keyboard who is not involved in the actual community on the ground there in the Castro."

Wow, I'm sure glad St. Paul didn't listen to the Old Zhou's of his day when he was sitting down to write his letter to the Corinthians!
Tim F. | 10.26.06 - 9:22 pm | #

Love those photos of the parish paricipation in the Pride Parade. I get the impression that the parish's efforts were not to save souls but to be complicit in sin - a pretty grievous sin at that. I would suggest that any Catholics in the area remove the Blessed Sacrament and burn the place to the gound .
Michaelus | 10.26.06 - 9:22 pm | #

Tim F. -- The Apostle Paul actually spent a considerable amount of time in Corinth, about a year and a half before he wrote anything to them.

How much time have you spent recently in the Archdiocese of San Francisco (or a suffragan Diocese), or at this particular parish?
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 9:44 pm | #

It is sad this priest has led his flock so far astray. The Catholic Teachings are clear. It is not a matter of pick and choose. It is a matter of The Truth that is set forth beginning with Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not look to these people as much as I look to the priest. He is responsible for the care of their souls and what has he done?

If he has indeed desecrated the church with pornographic material and sex toys I think he should be removed immediately.

However, if this church is all that posters say it is..is it even in communion with Rome anymore???
Mary-Kathryn | 10.26.06 - 9:47 pm | #

The photo's are wild! Their priest actually is shown blessing the gay pride parade.
http://www.mhr.org/picts/MHRPhot...06/ P6250009.jpg

The priset is behind the two men as they start to kiss. The first picture shows the church of the Most Holy Redeemer selling shirts to help pay for the parade. I think I am going to get sick. For the sake of his sorrowful passion have mercy on us and the whole world.
lindsaypace | 10.26.06 - 9:52 pm | #

Zhou is off his crock.

This parish ought to be closed and dismantled, the pastor defrocked and the bishop, if he allows this, sent to the parish of Outback, Australia as a secretary of North Atlantic commerce.

A certain saying that relates hell and pavement comes to mind...
Steve | 10.26.06 - 9:56 pm | #

Thanks to modern tech we don't have to "spend" time in a particular place to know what is going on. Especially when the flith advertises themselves! If anyone supports this sacrilige they need to dress up in drag and wave your pompoms while the "sisters" pull up to the parish hall!
Mike | 10.26.06 - 10:01 pm | #

Let them get a hall at the Unity or U.U. church in town ... why does it have to be a Catholic church?
pml | 10.26.06 - 10:32 pm | #

Old Zhou: I live in one of the most out there liberal communities in the country and my parish priest would not dream of letting anything like this go on in our parish hall and if he did, my bishop would put an end to it immediately. Do you think it is a coincidence that the SPI went to this church seeking to use its facilities when there are other, more liberal, churches available, I am sure. No, this is a victory for them, I am sure. They don't have to stand outside the Church or the clinics and spew their hatred and sacrilege anymore --- now they can take it right into the parish hall. Lovely.

The person who wrote Mark seeking help is from San Francisco. What about the Catholics in the community there? Shouldn't they have the right to speak out when they see sacrilege and filth taking place in the parish hall? Don't they have the right to ask others to help them? Aren't we obliged to help them if we can?
elmo | 10.26.06 - 10:32 pm | #

If you want to raise a fuss about the company the parish keeps, you will inevitable find youself making a fuss about the parish itself and many of its activities.

I see. Christ would refrain from cleansing this temple! Isn't it too bad that we now have to have certain classifications of those we have no right to admonish. Can't seem to find that in the scriptures though. Better "get thee behind, Satan".

Those famous lines of "I left my heart in SF" should now substitute "soul".
anonytoo | 10.26.06 - 10:37 pm | #

Well, elmo, I imagine a lot of the Catholic leadership in San Francisco would think the San Francisco Catholic that wrote to Mark needs help. We should offer it.
He should go pray over this document full of the Wisdom of the American Bishops.

[Cue Blackshorts Theme Music]

And always remember, "All in all, it is essential to recall one basic truth. God loves every person as a unique individual." A message from the USCCB.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 10:45 pm | #

Old Zhao:

Yes, this is a Catholic Church in the Castro section of San Franciso. But the bottom line is that it is a Catholic Church, which means it stands for something universal even if, in that locale, it is to be a huge sign of contradiction.

That means it is called to minister to save souls from their sinful and dead ways and make them alive in Christ. In the case of the Homosexual, that means calling for some decorum above the gutter when raising funds for AIDS care. It also means teaching what the Church universally (that is what "Catholic" means, BTW) about the call to chastity made for all men and women in whatever state in life they are in. Married or single, whatever one's sexual attractions are.

If that isn't a popular message there, that's nothing new. The truth has never been popular in certain quarters, and in far fewer places these days, but the truth still sets you free.
Steven Cornett | 10.26.06 - 10:49 pm | #

Old Zhou: And always remember, "All in all, it is essential to recall one basic truth. God loves every person as a unique individual." A message from the USCCB.

Yes, but He loves us to change not to imply approval of our sin or to encourage us in it. This is a sacrilegous use of the parish hall and should be stopped immediately. It is scandalous and implies approval...hell, it IS approval...of the mockery of Christ and everything most Catholics hold sacred. Of course, I'm sure the SPI will glory in the attention this campaign brings them and they will no doubt fall to the floor sqealing that they have been vicitimzed.

I might buy the argument that the pastor is allowing them to use the hall in order to keep them close for possible evangelization. But is there is any evidence of evangelization and I mean actual Roman Catholic moral teaching? I'm willing to bet this month's stipend that the parish's "mission statement" mean, in effect, "we approve of whatever you think is right for you...come celebrate your choices with us."

Fr. Philip
PNP, OP | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 11:21 pm | #

Old Zhou,

I really do respect your calm and reasoned response to this (including abuse from others) as well as your attempt to promote reconciliation.

But I wonder if the nature of this group precludes such a gesture. If this were a group that happened to mock the Church or seek to undermind her, such a gesture might have some merit. But it seems that the very nature (just look at the name) of the group requires an open and direct hostility to the Catholic Church and ultimately to Jesus Christ himself. While I would openly encourage reconciliation with any and all members of the group as individuals, it seems that the group itself is fundamentally an attack and a mockery of the Church. I can only see this as causing confusion and downright error regarding the relationship of the Church to the positions of the group. The Church has failed too many people as regards sexual deviations (as the last few years have brought to the forefront of our gleeful culture) to be ambiguous in this area.

It is for this reason, that my mind and heart move to resist this move by the parish completely.

To use an analogy (which limps as all analogies do), I would oppose an objectively racist group whose name, costume, symbols, and activities were outright mockeries of some subset of the Church (I cannot imagine such a thing as regards race) from using a parish site for a monthly fundraiser for poor agricultural workers. Scandal is leading others to sin. By all means, invite the "Sisters" as individuals to hold a fundraiser under another name and practice and reach out to them. But don't let them lead others to sin with their open mockery and direct promotion of sin..
Jay E. Adrian | 10.26.06 - 11:25 pm | #

Dear Fr. Philip,

Be patient! They only arrived in September. Evangelization takes time. Dialogue is a slow process. It might take years for the cultural interpenetration to bear fruit.

And, yes, I don't think any of the Church leadership in San Francisco would want to hear the falling down and squealing (to the media) if some mean, nasty, anti-gay, oppressive action was taken to evict them.

There here. They are not going away. At least not without a major media campaign.
Old Zhou | 10.26.06 - 11:29 pm | #

So Zhou I guess in this particular instance two wrongs DO make a right!

Or is it, let us do evil so that good may result...

I can never keep those straight.

According to their website, "Most Holy Redeemer Parish was established in November of 1900 to serve the people living in Eureka Valley, then largely an Irish, Italian and German population. The church was first dedicated on Christmas Day, 1901. The facilities were expanded over time with the addition of a rectory, school and CONVENT (emphasis mine). As demographics and needs in the area have changed, the parish has continued to evolve.

You're probably right, nothing is owed to the memory of those Sisters of Charity who built this parish and staffed its school for decades.

After all, things EVOLVE, and if 100 years later a bunch of guys come along to occupy the same place they worked so hard to build...mocking them and their attire and their faith and their values and basically everything they held dear, well who are we to judge this harmless little bingo?
CV | 10.26.06 - 11:49 pm | #

And to think some Christians once looked down on temple prostitution...
Kevin Jones | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 12:48 am | #

Oy vey!

Zhou, I've admired so much of what you've written since I started reading Catholic blogs, but on this I think you are badly wrong.

I write from Toronto, which if it's isn't quite San Francisco, comes close, with reportedly the third-largest gay community on the continent. And I spent seven years regularly attending Metropolitan Community Church here.

People in the LGBTQ/Whatever community need to hear the truth. Churches such as the one described say that God loves gay people, which is true and certainly needs to be said. But it is also true that gay sex is always sinful. This latter message is certainly difficult to communicate to people immersed in gay culture, and in that respect I appreciate your call for patience. But in the slow process of evangelizing in this community, the Church must not compromise itself. Allowing pornography and sex toys to be handed out on Church property grossly undermines the message that all of us, even gay men, are called to chastity.

Twenty years ago, even ten years ago, I might have joined a demonstration to protest if a Catholic bishop had forced the Sisters out of a church hall. Bigotry! Hatred! So the Church can expect to win few immediate friends if it exercises its authority here. But if salt has lost its saltiness, what good is it to anyone?

And what bigger fish could there possibly be for the Catholic Church in San Francisco to fry than to share the hard but liberating timeless truth of the gospel with members of the gay and lesbian community? And if pornography in a parish hall doesn't cross the line, then the Church might as well announce now that there are no limits at all on how members of the gay community should behave.
The Sheepcat | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 5:07 am | #

Wading in the conversation a bit late... I lived in San Francisco for several years - I hope that makes me qualified enough, in Zhou's eyes, to comment, since that appears to be a litmus test.

First off, I think there are some very good things happening at Holy Redeemer Parish - I'd encourage those who looked through the parish website at the Gay Pride Parade photos to also take a look at the Corpus Christi procession photos.

Yet, the fact that good things are happening there does not give them license to permit objective evil. Many gay men - many men, for that matter - are addicted to pornography. Treating it as a simple joke - ha ha, we're handing out pornos as prizes for bingo - is not something that can or should be chalked up to "letting boys be boys": rather, it's enabling. Even though it's not the Church which is passing out the porn, the Church is accomodating it. And that's wrong Zhou - no matter how you slice it. If we truly felt compassion for our brothers and sisters who wrestle with same-sex attraction we wouldn't accomodate those things which keep them in the oppression of sin.

Having lived in San Francisco, I know many homosexuals who lead lives there of really heroic chastity - remaining faithful in the heart of Babylon, as it were. Every time the Church moderates her moral stance, in the name of "being welcoming" or "being compassionate," it's a slap in the face to these heroic folks. It's also a chance for them to say to themselves, "why am I doing this? If Father's right and God loves me 'just as I am' and doesn't ask any more of me, why do I wrestle with the loneliness, the tension, the ridicule - why shouldn't I just go out and run the gamut of the Castro and SOMA?" The Church owes these people more - more than just accomodation disguised as compassion. The Church owes them honesty, and integrity and authentic pride - not the kind that comes with beads and bare chests, but the kind that comes with attachment to the Holy Redeemer.
Tim Ferguson | 10.27.06 - 7:45 am | #

I skimmed over the USCCB's pastoral message. I noticed two things (at this cursory glance).

1) Nowhere does it say that it's okay to encourage the behavior, especially by giving out porn and sex toys.

2) I might have missed this, but where are the references to programs that help homosexuals overcome their same-sex attractions? Isn't there a Catholic group that does just that?

Certainly, God loves each of us, and Jesus accepted people, no matter how sinful. But what tends to get left out is that Jesus accepted those who had lived greatly sinful lives when they came to Him with great repentance. I don't recall Jesus going to the prostitutes and saying, "Hey, I love you all, I accept you all. Don't worry about changing on My timetable. Why not come to the Temple and strut around and get customers in the courtyard?"

All of us are called to repentance! And I struggle just as much as anyone with my own sins. The Church should be exhorting people to live lives of holiness, not just telling them that Jesus loves them just as they are. (Yes, Jesus loves them, but He doesn't accept that kind of lifestyle, and we know it.)
Christine | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 8:38 am | #

OZ: "Evangelization takes time. Dialogue is a slow process. It might take years for the cultural interpenetration to bear fruit."

Who is evangelizing whom, here? Seems to me the "interpenetration" is near complete. The "pillar and foundation" of truth is not doing its job there.
quasimodo | 10.27.06 - 10:13 am | #

We should pray for the pastor of this parish. If you look at some of the bulletins, in early August, he checked himself into alcohol treatment center for priests in Minnesota. I don't know when this event was scheduled, but the pastor may not have even been aware.

Also, these "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" are not a religious society. Some of the prior comments imply that the Church should help out the "sisters" in their annual fundraiser. These are gay men, mocking religious societies, and basically throwing an orgy in the church basement. Granted they need evangelizing, but the Church is sacred ground, even the basement, and such sacrelegious events should not be permitted.

Whoever allowed this should be fired.
Gene H | 10.27.06 - 11:56 am | #

Why not give the basement to an abortion clinic rent-free? Don't *they* need evangelizing too? The church could even sponsor a float in the pro-choice rally.
WRY | 10.27.06 - 12:54 pm | #

Well, this doesn't really sound to me like an orgy, so maybe some limits are still being respected, I guess. The trouble with firing someone for allowing an event such as this is that while it may in principle deserve the penalty, the case for dismissal may collapse if there's been a persistent pattern of tolerating substandard performance of the person's duties, and I very much doubt that the decision to allow this event is that much more egregious than any number of other decisions that have passed unchallenged.

Tim Ferguson, bless you: yes, exactly!

Sad to say, Toronto has a congregation of the United Church of Canada that rents space to the Ontario Coalition for Abortion Clinics. I go to the building to hear concerts and have begun the practice of praying a Rosary while I'm there. I've wondered, though, if I should boycott the venue altogether.

Pray without ceasing.
The Sheepcat | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 1:56 pm | #

Old Zhou-it affects us even though we don't live in San Francisco because we are all members of the Body of Christ. When one sins or enables sin to happen we all suffer. Lord Jesus have mercy on us all.
karen | 10.27.06 - 3:08 pm | #

Holy crap.

Now and again I think that the (allegedly) Catholic Church in America has permanently lost the ability to shock me, out of sheer, gross, numbing repetition, if nothing else..

Yet again, I have discovered that my capacity to be shocked, as well as their capacity to shock, is rather greater than I had imagined.

Perhaps it's just as well that, as an Orthodox, I have no right to protest to the chancellor as Mr. Shea invites us to. I just don't what I would say.

Although this does come to mind...

"'And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive; for the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.' " MT 13,14-15.

It breaks my heart to see what faithful Catholics must endure from their own. I very much admire people like Mark Shea and Amy Welborn and countless, nameless others who put up with such travesties from their supposed shepherds and never despair or give up. May the Holy Spirit keep giving you the strength to keep fighting.
Kevin | 10.27.06 - 3:36 pm | #

Again: who thought this was a good idea??
Richard | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 4:44 pm | #

I got a response from one email (I think the archdiocese's office).

"Thanks for writing to us. Your e-mail will be forwarded to the archbishop's office. Should you want to correspond with him please write to:
Most Rev. George H. Niedarauer
One Peter Yorke Way
San Francisco, CA 94109"
Christine | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 10:03 pm | #

Sad.
Matt C. Abbott | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:18 am | #

Kevin:

You say you're Orthodox. Does that mean Eastern Orthodox, the church that's not in union with Rome? Forgive my ignorance, I'm a new Catholic convert.
Amy H. | 10.28.06 - 2:51 am | #

Old Zhou. Post 11.29pm

There (they're) here. They are not going away. At least not without a major media campaign.

Precisely why we need a blitzkrieg on the bishops who allow this.
Show them up for their lack of courage and abject failure to oversee and promote Catholic teachings. Invite 'Courage' in to MHR to offer hope for these sick and sad individuals. They need to take to heart the words of Christ "Go and sin no more".
JM | 10.28.06 - 10:29 am | #

Amy,

Yes, I am Eastern Orthodox, the Church with which Rome is not in union (from our point of view).

As for your "ignorance," well, most Americans haven't even heard of (Eastern) Orthodoxy. Ignorance is relative. At least you didn't ask me if I was Jewish.
Kevin | 10.29.06 - 12:03 pm | #

Speaking of Orthodoxy, the Russian Orthodox (Moscow Patriarchate) recently demonstrated the perfect response to cases like this one, in my opinion.

One of their priests had "blessed" a same-sex union on the sly. Unfortunately for him, once the facts came to light, the priest was immediately laicized. On order of the bishop, the church itself was then demolished, and the ruins were burned.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

I would almost advocate following the above prescription for any Roman Catholic parish, rectory, church hall, parochial school, seminary or pontifical university where our "pastors" looked the other way at sodomy, sacrilege, and/or the sexual abuse of minors.

We should bother contacting MHR or the local bishop? Please. We should appeal to Rome, by way of the papal nuncio, to close this parish altogether and demolish it. Sack the priests and the bishop. Then send in some actual Roman Catholic missionaries.

And why shouldn't the Pope intervene? Isn't this why the Supreme Pontiff has universal jurisdiction in the first place?

Eh. But that's me. I just emerge from the catacombs every so often to attend Mass at the local FSSP apostolate. If I see my shadow, that means we have another year of still more scandal, heretical nonsense and stuff like this b******t at MHR.
Joe Oliveri | 10.30.06 - 1:39 pm | #

I got a response to the email that I sent to the archdiocese on the matter. This is what they just sent to me today.

Statement by the Archdiocese of San Francisco

Permission to use Ellard Hall should not have been given to the group. The Archdiocese of San Francisco has directed the parish to end the arrangement immediately. For years the group has directed contempt and ridicule at Catholic faith and practices. The particular targets of the group's derision are women in religious communities, for whom Catholics, and many non-Catholics, have a special reverence and respect.

My email that I sent was this (in case anyone was wondering):

I have recently learned that your parish is allowing the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" (actually a group of transvestites dressed to mock nuns) to host their "Revival Bingo" at your parish hall. I am deeply disturbed that such debauchery would be allowed to take place in the very building that our Lord becomes present in the Blessed Sacrament. A Catholic Church is not a place for such a gathering, nor should any gathering at a parish hall be one that includes giving away porn videos and sex toys. The San Francisco Bay Times describes the event as such:

[insert article snippet and link here]

This is not an appropriate activity for a Catholic parish to support! All this while choir practice for the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is happening upstairs?

I certainly hope and pray that you will reconsider your association with this group. We need to reach out with compassion to our brothers and sisters in Christ who are confused about their sexuality and teach them the truth about what God desires of us all, not reinforce their destructive behavior.

Sincerely,
Christine *****
************, VA

The biggest thing I wanted when I wrote was to be as polite as possible (and as charitable as possible). There is a good chance that the archbishop didn't know it was going on, and writing him to say that the pastor there ought to be sacked, the church burned to the ground, etc., wasn't going to do much as far as I could tell.

You always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Attitude always matters. (At least that's what Saint Paul said to the Corinthians.)
Christine | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 2:37 pm | #

Got a response from the Archdiocese! Here's the text:

"Permission to use Ellard Hall should not have been given to the group. The Archdiocese of San Francisco has directed the parish to end the arrangement immediately. For years the group has directed contempt and ridicule at Catholic faith and practices. The particular targets of the group's derision are women in religious communities, for whom Catholics, and many non-Catholics, have a special reverence and respect."

Of course, she could've said a little more about the immoral nature of the themes and behavior, but at least the archdiocese made a move on it.
Theocoid | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 3:29 pm | #