...established by the Monkees...
Ha! That's priceless. 
Not a Monkees fan, Mark? 
One of the laments from the aging hippies during this NPR program about the book which documented the experiences of teenaged volunteers who moved to the South during the summer of 1964 was their dismay at the lack of young people volunteering for social causes these days. I actually yelled at the radio "Oh, they're out there, but they're out there volunteering for pro-life causes trying to undo the harm you've done". Silly boomers.
Counting down the days until Generation Narcissus is dead, dead, dead.
Counting down the days until Generation Narcissus is dead, dead, dead.
Sean,
I almost hate to bring this up, but have you seen this?
Just for the record: few of the activists of the civil rights era were baby-boomers, if you define baby-boomer as "born after WWII." We were too young. The volunteers were mostly of college age and up, which means born mostly before 1946. Schwerner, Chaney, & Goodman were born 1939-43.
Moreover, pretty close to none of the left-wing cultural icons of the civil rights period were boomers. Peter, Paul, and Mary: b. 1938, '37, '36 respectively. Dylan: 1941. Baez: 1941. Phil Ochs: 1940. Etc.
Best wishes to you, too, Sean P. Dailey.
Sean:
You're kind of making my point. Wishing death to Generation Narcissus is not the quick ticket toward spiritual health.
I know when I first started to learn about the faith (I mean REALLY learn) I felt very cheated by what had been withheld from me. And because of it, I was, and can still be, a bit of a zealot. It is something I work on everytime I go to Mass or have a conversation with someone about the Catholic Church. I certainly don't want to be guilty of swinging too far the other way. Thanks, Mark, for the reminder.
Vatican II wasn't caused by baby boomers either. The oldest boomers were in high school then. And not all boomers are enamored with the church of Kumbaya either. Many of us love the Tridentine Mass so please don't be wishing us dead.
Sean is not only making Mark's point perfectly, he also needs to wait another 4 decades.
Yes, thank you, Maclin and Cecelia! I was born in 1955 and was 10 years old when V2 ended. Not exactly in a position to even have an opinion about it, much less affect the outcome.
(Whippersnappers! That "new math" sure makes subtraction difficult.)
But seriously, in defense of Sean, "Boomer" is probably used more in a figurative than a literal sense. Meaning, essentially, everyone past the age of 16 who still likes felt banners and Marty Haugen. And I am sure he was just kidding about wishing we were dead.
Right, Sean?
Luther said mankind was like a drunken peasant trying to ride a horse. We get up, fall off, climb back up and fall off the other side.
Sometimes, Ole Martin made sense.
I don't wish ill on the Baby Boomers. I feel sorry for them. Every time I see one of those retirement commercials with Dennis Hopper, I just think, "How sad." It's a generation that was much more talk than action. And what it did accomplish has often led to this miserable world my kids are now charged to inherit. Those who are still trying to insist we see it as the real Greatest Generation make me shake my head, and then move on to more important things. I have a feeling, when it is all over, the words of Jesus will prove true for the Boomers. As they were so quick to judge their ancestors, so shall their children and grandchildren judge them.
1)I'm with the other DG on this one.
2)Wishing boomers dead is, well... wow.
3)Mark, I loved the line about "Just give me my lines and my blocking." Maclin, I hope you caught that - it's in Mark's second link here.
4)I love Panis Angelicus and one or two Haugens, and the Exultet, and Taize, and.... You aren't really as snooty as that sounded, right, Robin?
The whole terminology of "generations" is almost completely useless. Ninety percent of the time when people say "the boomers" they mean "the hippies and left-wing political radicals." Who were a VERY small percentage of the people born between 1946 and 1962 (typical "boomer" markers). I recently had to sit through some lengthy and moronic management training that involved generalizations about generations that were so broad as to be not just inaccurate but totally preposterous. It's sociology at the level of the four humors. Excuse my ranting, but that was four hours of my life down the drain.
Young people have always denounced their elders, and vice versa. And almost everybody born in the industrialized nations since roughly 1940 or so is more than a bit spoiled. The human race had never known such affluence. That explains 80% or so of what people identify as "boomer" attitudes. I have so far seen no reason at all to think that younger people are, in general, any less affected by it.
Oh, and, by the way, those Dennis Hopper commercials make me want to throw something at the tv.
Jeeze, what ya got against Humours?
My wife and I are both in our late forties, which puts us at the tail end of the Baby Boom. I was too young to be a hippie, though, but I admit I would have been one if I could have. I'm older and smarter now.
Every time I think of hippies, I remember Andy Griffith killing one with a shovel in Pray for the Wildcats. Yes, it really happened.
Sean needs a stern talking-to from Scoot P. Daily.
And Dennis Hopper is very much a Silent Generation person. He would have graduated high school just before Elvis became a phenomenon....
As for the marker of the end of the Boomer generation, I have to agree with the re-bordering it at 1960. My own high school class of 1979 (birth year 1961) was considered by a number of members of our faculty as dramatically different tempermentally and otherwise from its preceding class - the most dramatic shift they had seen since the 1960s. That said, the birth cohorts of the early 1960s have a Janus-like quality in terms of generational characteristics. Especially depending on whether one was toward the end or beginning of a sibling group.
In any event, expressions of generational hatred say more about the hater than the hated.
I am one of those who thinks that the baby boomers get a bum rap. All in all, it's simply another generation, noeither nor worse than the others. Are many of them self-indulgent? Yes. Are many of them hard-working? Yes. Plenty of chaff, but also plenty of wheat.
Should the pre-boomer generation be held responsible for the weaknesses of their children (the boomers)? Should the boomers be praised for the strenghts of their children (the post-boomers)?
It's rather silly, really. The boomers are neither as bad nor as good as either their detractors or champions maintain. In any event, at least baby boomers have a good sense of humour, love irony, and like to poke fun at themselves.
Of course, like with any other generalization, there are plenty of exceptions in either direction.
I understand Sean's frustration, though. In a weaker moment I have said aloud that I longed for the remaining Beatles, the Rollling Stones, and Bob Dylan be in the same crashing plane so Time magazine and the rest could go ahead and get all of the remaining 60s worship out of their systems. I'm not proud of it now, that was a wretched thing to say, but I do understand the frustration.
I sent my previous comment without reading Maclin Horton's excellent 10:56 pm post. Very well said, Maclin!
My late father was born in 1920 and was an infantry officer in Europe during WWII. He would have scoffed at the "Greatest Generation" label now attached to people of his generation. As he often would tell me, people don't choose the year they were born and every generation has its particular challenges and temptations.
"My own high school class of 1979 (birth year 1961) was considered by a number of members of our faculty as dramatically different tempermentally and otherwise from its preceding class - the most dramatic shift they had seen since the 1960s."
Wow, me too. I graduated in 1979. The two classes before us were (on average) mostly decent, ordinary kids. We were mostly Hoods, slackers and potheads. No motivation at all. I think we had our teachers pretty well flummoxed, not to say depressed.
I think if you want to know the true value or worth of ANY generation, you have to look at the generation which immediately follows it. Since the silent or greatest generation begat the boomers, maybe they weren't so great. The boomers begat Gen-X, though, which proves that at least (in some warped way) the boomers had a sense of humor.
At the end of the day, the generations are so defined largely because of that time period. From the Greatest, to the Boomers, to Gen X, they are all media labels. With that said, certain time periods have certain characteristics. Those who matured in the 60s have a certain identity, largely because some influential individuals have attempted to claim that identity (see again, D. Hopper).
But I can't help but notice also that the generation gap seems to be shrinking. I know several parents who enjoy the things their kids do. They are as likely to sit down and play a video game as their kids are. But many of the 60s gen. wanted a distinct line drawn between them and others, and I am sure they will get their wish.
+J.M.J+
Count me in with those who hate the Dennis Hopper commercials. Though I also can't help but see a certain irony in them.
Forty years ago it was: "Live for today," now it's prepare for your tomorrow.
Forty years ago they said: "Don't trust anyone over thirty," now they're all pushing retirement age.
Forty years ago they sang: "Hope I die before I get old!" now they're... well, you know.
Back then it was "Share the land," now it's "Invest your money wisely." Somewhere along the line their socialism morphed into capitalism. Yep, the Sixties are definitely dead.
In Jesu et Maria,
THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
It's the only commandment that includes a blessing.
Obviously the greatest generation did a much better job of teaching the 4th commandment than the boomers have and/or boomers respect the 4th commandment more so than GenX.
All this talk about Dennis Hopper's irritating commercial and I have not seen it a single time.... I guess I should watch more TV....
Tim J
While my class was very much more driven, cleaner cut, entrepreneurial and politically independent than the several that preceded it. Lots of very high-performing people (the meritocratic youth of today had roots back then - lots over achievers who were overscheduled - I saw it among my peers.) Lots of group dating. Pot yes (the class of 1979 nationally was not only the largest high school class in US history it was also the highest, excuse the pun), but much less slacking in that regard.
Funny thing is, I also remember faculty in college also noting the cleavage in generational habits in my class vs prior habits.
But I was in surburan NY - hoodishness peaked there circa 1974-77. The black-out of 1977 and the Summer of Sam began a reaction against that, it seemed to us at the time.
Go back and substitute 18** for 19** in all these comments. Perspective, people.
Generational labels really are just a marketing tool.
I'm pre-Boomer, having been born before Pearl Harbor. I completed my Catholic education before V II. But all my adult life I've noticed a gulf between myself and people five years younger. I was more simpatico with older people.
Although never a hippie, I was an active sf fan, a state which can be even farther out. I have many interests in common with my grown children.
None of this proves anything.
+J.M.J+
Phil: You can count yourself blessed for having never been subjected to those spots....
...or, you can just watch the commercials on YouTube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6eS6isp7Uao
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9UEp3tLLZ6A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Og2kQifwe-A
(The last one, for some reason, doesn't feature the song "Gimme Some Lovin" like the others, though I'm pretty sure the version I saw on TV does have that song.)
Enjoy! Or not....
In Jesu et Maria,
I think the generation gap is smaller now too. Our 4 kids range from 11 to 18. We have our bad moments with the teenagers and the line between parent and child is still crisp, but otherwise the gap is smaller than it was in my teen years. I know many other parents with similar experience.
One small component is the music, I think. Our generation was really rather narrow minded about music; rock was all I knew - besides contempt for country and disco, that is. That narrow mindedness infected our attitudes toward broader generational issues too.
My kids and their friends love many of the songs we did - has anyone noticed that widely popular Guitar Hero is mostly songs from decades ago? But these kids also appreciate jazz, blues, folk, r&b, rap, hip-hop, and even a little country. Their broad mindedness is a good thing and has a good effect on other attitudes.
As one born during the Boomer era, I can promise you that there are plenty of us who never bought into all that silliness (or who at least quickly eschewed it after a brief sampling.)
I share the same number of viewpoints with Dennis Hopper, Jane Fonda, etc., as as I would with beings from a different planet.
Reading good Catholic publications while growing up helped me a lot.
Part of it is geographical, as well as generational, I think. Many of those of Gen Boomer who grew up in the Midwest, the South, and from small towns were able to make it through with their heads still on more or less straight.
Sign me,
Boomer with Jane Austen sensibilites
====
Oh, and Jane Fonda is no Baby Boomer. She also was born smack in the middle of the Silent Generation....
I hate to be the one to point out the obvious on a Catholic blog, but... in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, old nor young. . . we should be worried about eternal life, not what generation we're born into - and sharing the way to eternal life with everyone else. Love covers over a multitude of sins, you know, and there is more rejoicing over a single lost sheep than many righteous men....
Our culture trains us to think in terms of age, people are segregated in school by age, youth is overvalued and age undervalued, and, well, wisdom doesn't even have a place at the table. But generations aren't the problem, nor hippies nor liberals nor neo-cons. Sin, evil, and fallen human nature are the problem - and salvation, love, and God the answer. We all need to get over our age, and get into God, IMHO.
Aimee, you are right except I didn't have the impression that commentors here were *worried* about generations, or were even emphasizing it too much. Observing and reflecting, even on less than cosmic matters, are part of wisdom.
Thanks for the Hopper links, Rosemarie.
The reason I don't watch much TV is that we don't use cable anymore. We did it mainly for the sake of our teenage daughter. Initially she was unhappy about our decision, but to our (and hers) surprise she does not really miss it anymore.
We do use Netflix to watch movies and TV programs. That we way we have control over what and when to watch.
I agree that the term "baby boomers", as it is used now, is somewhat of misleading label. It is interesting that so many of the people we associate with the boomer generation actually are NOT boomers. It is also interesting that more often than not when somebody uses the term "baby boomer" the connotation is usually negative--even if its a boomer using the term. Perhaps the boomers are one of the most self-critical generations.
Phil, my kids gripe about not having a DVD player in the car, but about one hour into our last long trip, I saw in the rear view that all 4 of them were reading a book! I've kept it to myself so far and intend to gloat about it during some Thanksgiving meal 10 years from now.
We have "Amish cable". It's kind of like "St. Francis' horse".
My kids are begging me to get rid of cable. Go figure. As for the Boomers, I think it was stated earlier that what is usually meant is the 60s generation; and then it usually means the counter-culture. But there are also traits that come with periods in history. Folks who grew up after the 50s as a general rule see the world differently than those before. Those who grew up in the 80s, the 70s, and so on.
As for being self-critical, I don't know bout that. When I was in college (1980s), I had several profs who spoke of the 60s as a time when saints and angels walked the earth. And they kept jumping on us for lacking the passion and the purpose of that greatest of all generations.
Liam wrote: "Jane Fonda is no Baby Boomer. She also was born smack in the middle of the Silent Generation....
Liam, I hope we can persuade you to consider not to be too literal about such things?
Hanoi Jane (b. 1939), Abbie Hoffman (b. 1936), Phil Ochs (b. 1940), Judy Collins (also b. 1939), Mick Jagger (b. 1943), John Lennon (b. 1940) and many other players in the whole 60s and 70s scene, though not born Boomers, may be considered to have been grandfathered into that cohort by their devotion to and prominence in the Boomer causes they espoused.
====
+J.M.J+
You're welcome, Phil. Now you've been spared from having to "watch more TV" to see them.
>>>In a weaker moment I have said aloud that I longed for the remaining Beatles, the Rollling Stones, and Bob Dylan be in the same crashing plane so Time magazine and the rest could go ahead and get all of the remaining 60s worship out of their systems.
Well, I wouldn't exactly want to see that. I mean, Charlie Watts seems like a good egg.
In Jesu et Maria,
Mr. Shea attempts to make a point about the way one series of people swings one way and the next swings the other in reaction, and his comment box fills up with argument over the terms he used. I don't know whether to think that's good because we can always use fine tuning of our statements, or bad because almost nobody sounds like they noticed the important point. I'm settling for assuming I can't know what they actually thought of the point and thus can't think one way or the other on it. I do, however, think his point is not worth my concern over the terms (but perhaps that's because I, being only 18, tend to sort generations into "now, just before now, and back when").
Lots of innerestin' comments here. One misunderstanding that seems to crop up repeatedly is what a Baby Boomer is. Unlike "Gen X" and other media-manufactured labels, the "Boomer" generation refers to a specific and discretely defined demographic: people born between 1946 and 1964, when there was a significant postwar spike in the birthrate. A "boom," if you will.
Some are saying, well, in that case, Bob Dylan and the Beatles and Jane Fonda and tons of other Boomer icons born before the end of WW2 weren't Boomers themselves.
Yeah? So? What's your point?
?
+J.M.J+
>>>Mr. Shea attempts to make a point about the way one series of people swings one way and the next swings the other in reaction, and his comment box fills up with argument over the terms he used.
That's the way it often goes in these comments boxes. FWIW, I agree that people tend to go to extremes like that rather than seek balance. Our lack of temperance must result from the Fall of Adam.
In Jesu et Maria,
Screaming
Actually, even that definition has been tweaked to reflect the uptick in the births during WW2 and the fall from the crest of the boom, ie. from 1943-1960.
Mark:
..."But the ever-present danger is that the rising generation will push so far in the opposite direction that they will turn the Faith into an iron cold system of laws and shibboleths designed to keep out the impure, the suspect, and insufficiently orthodox--which will breed another reaction in the next generation of fuzzy, squishy thinkers who want nothing to do with orthodoxy."
Great words.
When I get mad at generation Narcissus, and all I had to endure growing up under theirk yoke (one of my happiest days was when the iconic boomer radio station of my region changed format to Grunge music), but as you say, it is a pendulum. One generation reacts to the sins of the previous generation buy being the opposite. We need to look at the generation prior to the boomers, to see what they were reacting to. And, of course, we could carry that on ad nauseum, couldn't we.
Thanks for the reality check. I still think, albeit jaundiced, that the boomers were the most pernicious generation ever.
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