We hate Many Conservative Christians here. Not as much as we hate Derb, of course.
Boteach's error is that one does NOT requre hatred of persons to seek and inforce Justice.
From a Jewish perspective, there is no error. They have no sacred text which teaches "Love your enemies."
Other than the hatred thing, Boteach is correct on everything else.
Yes, the main thrust of the article was that we can't bring ourselves to use anything other than morally neutral methods of describing him. That is a good point which Mark seems to have missed. We should love our enemies but love them enough to tell them when they have moral and spiritual problems.
I wish Rabbi Boteach and his caller, whose conversation Boteach reports, would both write out five hundred times "Affection is not the same thing as love."
Affection is emotional attachment and the rabbi is perfectly correct that it can be morally repugnant to foster undue affection for murderers such as Hacking and Cho. Love, on the other hand, is an action of the will that desires the good of another. For Christians, love means that we are commanded to hope that even the souls of coldblooded murderers are not lost eternally; but we are in no way commanded to "luv" everyone.
It's not Christianity that's holding the media back from using terms like evil and killer. It's PC.
This is quite simply an outgrowth of abortion.
How can we consistantly refer to the actions of Cho as evil without regarding the million plus acts of abortion that occur each year as evil.
File this under the "sin makes you stupid" category or under moral relevance.
It is hardly surprising that we attempt to minimize the horrow of what Cho did. If we were to face the full reality of his evil, we would have to face that same full reality of evil in ourselves.
Well, he made some good points. But, his argument that we should not "love" sinners like Cheo is basically pointless. Cheo is dead. The last evil action he could commit on this earth is for those who follow after him to think hatred is a suitable option in the face of those who do evil. We hate evil (sin), and the one who inspires it (Satan), but that hatred is not extended to the sinner, who is often a mere emotional pawn, enslaving himself to his sins. We have the responsibility to not only love (in the agape sense) the sinner, but also do all in our power to save his soul. This, in fact, includes using what force is necessary to prevent such great sins against God and man, like Cheo committed, from being done. Even physical or violent force. I am no sociologist, nor criminologist (I hope those are words), so I have no idea what sort of criminal system would be the most effective at healing criminals spiritually, but that should be our aim. Without great spiritual healing, these sinners have no hope of union with their fellow man, and God, in this life and in eternity.
I think your headline is poorly worded. This isn't all Jews speaking. It is Rabbi Boteach. I don't think Jews asked him to write an editorial pronoucing their take on the Va Tech massacre.
I was heartened by the lack of hate towards Cho. Anybody can see what a terribly sick person he was. What possible good does it do to hate the sinner? It eats you up. Forgiveness heals. Who are we going to hate, as someone said, his corpse? His family? From what I've heard they are decimated and will probably never recover. Hate is a waste of time in this situation. I understand those whose family members or friends were killed feeling hatred, but Rabbi Boteach strikes me as someone who is already angry. I don't enjoy being angry myself.
It's *never* "all Jews". "Two Jews, three opinions" is a reliable proverb.
However, no Jew has a sacred text which reads "Love your enemies". Christians do, which is my point.
Mark,
I'm not sure why you seem to think that for a Thomist justice must be some sort of abstraction and can't be a source of joy. St. Thomas famously (infamously?) said that the blessed would rejoice at the sight of the sufferings of the damned, because of its justness. If you think that it is wicked to rejoice when the wicked are punished for their evil deeds, fine, but I think you'll need another authority besides St. Thomas.
Actually, my point (awkwardly worded) was not about Thomas or Thomists. My point was that people who tell me they are motivated by some purely abstract sense of rational justice, yet who seethe with glee over fresh blood, fail to persuade me that they aren't just making the "tough love" Christian excuse for indulging their hatred of their enemies.
Sorry, but the waving frying pans at an execution aren't an intuitively obvious witness to the mercy of Christ.
It isn't just Boteach.
Check out "The Virtue of Hate" at First Things:
http://www.firstthings.com/artic...?
id_article=443
Mark,
Do people tell you that they are motivated by an abstract sense of rational justice, or do they just tell you they're motivated by justice?
I read the article, and the combox/ talkback, and thank God I'm a Christian.
Whose sins do I hate more, Cho's or mine? Mine. I am not mentally ill and I claim to love Our Triune God. Cho was mentally ill and didn't seem to have any faith. So, my sins are stinkier in my nostrils. What the hell is wrong with me? I have no excuses!
What, the Rabbi expects us to hate that pitiful Cho like he's Timothy McVeigh or Mohammad Atta? No way.
Some of the Jewish commenters were claiming that only the dead murder victims could forgive Cho. Poppycock. What about their parents? Siblings? Friends? They were victimized by having their child, sibling, friend taken from them. Even the larger community was wounded by the horror of what happened. We all have that cry inside, up from the gut, shaking a fist at God, asking why. So yes, we have all been injured in some way, and we are all in the position to forgive. Sin--and the good we do in reparation of its damage--reverberates through the whole human community. (That's one of the few things I really learned and remembered from the desert wasteland of the 70's 'catechesis' I received.)
But we know that Christ saw Cho's sins/crimes from the Cross lo those millenia ago...and cried out the same lamentation of the forsaking by God in the face of injustice...and still forgave. "Father, forgive Cho, for he knows not what he does."
So what does loving your enemy mean? Blessing those who curse you? Praying for those who persecute you? Those three are mentioned together in Mt 5 Sermon on the Mount.
Back up a bit and you'll find the answer in the Beatitudes--the Wisdom of Christ, which is totally upside down to the wisdom of the world.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall find mercy.
Don't hate Cho--hate what happened, for blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
How would Christ look at Cho? I can only answer--moved with pity--if I dare hope for my own self.
Now that Cho is dead, what is the only act of loving my enemy I can do? Forgiving him from the will, even if my emotions aren't there; praying for his soul and the healing mercy of God to bind up his horrid wounds and restore that crazy brokenness; acts of reparation--will it stoke my resolve to go out there and love and serve God and neighbor ever more radically and generously? (I have a song in my head--Indigo Girls--"I will not be a pawn for the Prince of Darkness any longer!" --must pause and fire it up on iTunes.)
Kyrie eleison! -- Lord, have MERCY!
Christe eleison! -- Christ, have MERCY!
Eternal Father, I offer you the Body and the Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins, and those of the whole world!!!
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
have MERCY on us and on the whole world!!!
Jesus, I trust in You.
I am beginning to really appreciate the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and everything that goes along with that devotion--remember, this was all fresh in our minds, because it happened right after the Feast of Divine Mercy. Perhaps praying the chaplet prepared many of us to be capable of moving to the desire for mercy, as a habit of mind and heart through our "vain repetitions." Hmm. Not so vain after all.
"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you" was a shock and a scandal when Jesus first said it, and it still is just as shocking and scandalous. It still hits people like a cold slap.
Because it's Truth.
"...He taught as one having authority, and not as one of the Scribes."
I don't know about the lack of this concept in Hebrew Scripture...the new is hidden in the old....
See Proverbs 25:21-22 and Navarre Commentary on this verse. especially important is the commentary on the "heaping coals" - which I am sure some comboxer will mention.
Affection is emotional attachment and the rabbi is perfectly correct that it can be morally repugnant to foster undue affection for murderers such as Hacking and Cho. Love, on the other hand, is an action of the will that desires the good of another.
Amen, Mia.
And thank you, Kentucky Liz. As someone once said about Divine Mercy (in reference to Divine Mercy Sunday), "I'm all for it because I am counting on it."
The OT says:
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'
I reply: Logically then even according to Judaism God is not pleased with Cho's death but prefers them to repent & live. If this is not love of enemies I don't know what is.
Thus I stand by my criticism of Boteach. Hatred is not required. If it was then true Hatred would require Joy at the death of the wicked & a hope that none of the Wicked experience T'Shuvah.
Sorry Mark but the lack of an explicit text commanding the love of enemies is not required to infer it.
Plus when I dig it up I seem to recall reading some Chasidic Master who advocated loving & forgiving his enemies.
BY:
You don't have to tell me that. However, you do have to tell many Jews that because, remember, there is no Magisterium and the New Testament that is hidden in the Old is, well, still hidden for them. That's why Rabbi Boteach can say what he said. It's why Elie Weisel can pray that the perpetrators of the Holocaust are in hell. And it's why an article like "The Virtue of Hate" can be written. Precisely what makes the difference is that the New Covenant has definitively revealed the command to love enemies and made it explicit.
I'm not saying all Jews subscribe to the notion that it's okay to hate enemies. "All Jews" don't agree on anything. But it is a legitimate moral opinion in Judaism in a way it is not in Christianity.
>However, you do have to tell many Jews that because, remember, there is no Magisterium.
I reply: No argument here. In fact side note, Rabbi Boteach's liberal** views on Sex clash with Ultra-Orthodox Jewish views. Two Jews three opinions etc.
**Liberal by Ultra-Orthodox standards.
Mark, you wrote:
"It's why Elie Weisel can pray that the perpetrators of the Holocaust are in hell."
Is that true? I know that he's a devout Jew, but is that sort of thing that a devout Jew, well known for his humanity, will do? It certainly does not mesh with my image of Elie Weisel. One thing is to still be so full of anger at the perpetrators of the holocaust that you want them to suffer forever, but another thing is to pray to God for such a thing.
Post-holocaust, Jewish theology (if it can truly be called that) seems to have taken some very negative turns for at least for some, including for Elie Weisel.
Here is a quote from Roy Schoeman's "Salvation is from the Jews":
"Elie Wiesel's 'faith' is placed in humanity in general, and in the Jewish people in particular, instead of, if not actually in opposition to, God. This is reflected in the closing words of his essay 'A Jew Today': 'We owe it to our past not to lost hope...We must show our children that in spite of everything, we keep our faith-in ourselves and even in mankind, though mankind may not be worthy of such faith. We must persuade our children and theirs that three thousand years of history must not be permitted to end with an act of despair on our part. To despair now would be a blasphemy-a profanation.'
Schoeman continues..."One must ask, is the 'god' in whom Elie Wiesel places his faith the God of the Jewish people, or the Jewish people themselves? Elie Wiesel presents this revolt against God as the 'Jewish theology'; yet contrast it to the words of the prophet Isaiah (who certainly has at least as much claim to represent Jewish theology!):
"Truly with you God is hidden, the God of Israel, the savior! Thos are put to shame and disgrace who vent their anger against him...Before him in shame shall come all who vent their anger against him (Is 45:15-16,24)
(Salvation is From the Jews, page 15
Regarding the issue of "hating", I'm not saying this is the entire answer, but isn't it possible that the discrepancy is *in part* due to a more semitic mode of expression? In the OT, God says that he "hated" Esau. (Mal 3:1) In Psalm 31:6 God is said to "hate" those who serve worthless idols.
Yet He was the same God then as now.
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