I've always been impressed with the wisdom of Karl Barth. He was truly a remarkable figure, and one to whom evangelicals in North America haven't listened enough.
Phil in Canada | 07.31.07 - 4:02 pm | #

I made a similar observation back when I was a Presbyterian and I realized that the Westminster Confession vitally needed the Catholic positions in order to be intelligible: even though they had defined their positions against the Catholic ones, they had still defined their positions against the Catholic ones.
Jon W | Homepage | 07.31.07 - 4:13 pm | #

drop the "protestant" label (i'm not protesting against anything) and still not consider the Catholic Church is a common tactic today.
quasimodo | 07.31.07 - 4:51 pm | #

If you include "a reaction to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction to the Catholic faith" then you're correct. Most Protestants and Evangelicals have never been to a Roman Catholic service or inside a Roman Catholic church building. I wouldn't be surprised if most have never been inside a "first-generation offshoot" (such as Lutherans and Anglicans) church building or to a service. Let's say you go to some kind of Baptist service. First off, your Baptist denomination is most likely a reaction to another Baptist denomination. Whether this is so or not, Baptist faith is a reaction to Congregationalism. Congregationalism is a reaction to Episcopalianism. It is only at that point that you get to a reaction to Roman Catholicism. Many Evangelicals go to a "Bible Church" or "Community Church" or "Christian Fellowship." These are probably yet another step down the ladder from where the Baptist in the example started.
HokiePundit | Homepage | 07.31.07 - 6:24 pm | #

The thread of protest is a given. It's always right there. I don't believe I have ever heard an altar call in a Protestant service that did not include a denouncement of "works righteousness" which is code for "the error of Catholicism".
Angelo Natalie | Homepage | 07.31.07 - 7:03 pm | #

You've left Orthodoxy out of the formula (and so has Barth). It steps outside the Catholic/Protestant dichotomy. One can cease to be a Protestant, become an apostolic Christian in Orthodoxy, yet never become Catholic.

At least that's what the Orthodox would say.

To which I say, well, the Orthodox Churches just started Protesting earlier. They're the first protestants, so to speak.
kentuckyliz | Homepage | 08.01.07 - 7:19 am | #

So a Protestant who becomes Orthodox is still being Protestant: "Anything but Catholic!"

The Orthodox are really concerned about a lingering protestant mentality among converts from protestantism. They don't lost their "Anything but Catholic!" consciousness.
kentuckyliz | Homepage | 08.01.07 - 7:20 am | #

Well put, Mark. Our Evangelical friends do bristle if they are called "Protestant" (as quasi says). But most denominations (and non-denominations) all trace themselves back to the main tenets of the "Reformers." Unless of course they deviate further, in which they are "protesting" Protestantism.

How about a name for them?
HyperProtestants?
mike the analyst | 08.01.07 - 10:25 am | #

I think y'all are overestimating the presence of the Roman Catholic Church in the mind of Evangelicals. The place of the RCC in the mind of Evangelicals is like the place of the Yankees in the place of a Cardinals fan. Sure, they may dislike the Yankees, but unless they're at the World Series it doesn't really matter. They're in different leagues and so there's very little interaction.
HokiePundit | Homepage | 08.01.07 - 11:01 am | #

They may not think about us, but they get their categories from us when they think about their own faith, whether they contemplate that or not.
Ed the Roman | 08.01.07 - 9:01 pm | #

If God is the absolute against which all things can be defined, then the Church is the absolute against which all Christendom can be defined.
Hidden One | Homepage | 08.01.07 - 11:09 pm | #