Murmur, Instigate, CLAMOR!!
is that gratuitous cleavage?
look, ms wolf is just a person. really.
although i agree with everything else.
T & A sells, baby!
As to the matters at hand, the political establishment of the USA has just completed a master demonstration of the care and feeding of a tyrant.
gregory, which one ? putin, w, or Ahmadinejad?
Something wicked is here...
With lots of Power and Wealth.
George W Bush, darling of American fascists and protege of the Democrats.
Great post SBT - Naomi's pretty clear since she writes so well, but you summed up a ton of the world view with more context.
And something else I might add. I am surprised at myself for not noticing something; how totally far right the entire country has moved in terms of what is accpetable for Civil Liberties.
Glenzilla has a post up about FISA, from it's inception.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/gre...fisa/
index.html
I've been agitating to leave FISA alone. I forgot how intrusive it was at the time of it's beginning:
The political establishment overwhelmingly concluded that warrantless eavesdropping presented intolerable dangers, and many believed that FISA's "safeguards" were actually woefully inadequate. Telecoms lobbied on behalf of their customers' privacy rights and against being drawn into government surveillance. Editorial boards were almost unanimously on the side of greater oversight on presidential spying.
That all seems so quaint. The mindset which back then defined the radical, pro-surveillance right-wing fringe has now become the sweet spot of our political establishment. The GOP fear-mongering that back then was laughed away today dominates our discourse and shapes our laws. The secret FISA court which back then was viewed even by some conservatives as an extreme threat to civil liberties is now the outermost liberal viewpoint, one that is about to be ejected altogether by the Democratic Congress from the mainstream spectrum. The political establishment today knows only one viewpoint: literally no limits are tolerable on the power of the loving, protective Surveillance State.
I believe I will post about this in the near future. But like I said, I am in shock about myself; agitating for the current "sweetspot" where in the not so distant past, FISA itself much less the FISC was entirely suspect.
The horrors.
The entire spectrum of political discourse has been unremittingly swept to the right for decades. The recent shifts are quite numbing in their scope and swiftness.
Habeas corpus is gone, as is the vice-president's company... gone to Dubai.
The smart money is gone and our rights with it.
And howzabout that Cole! Going back for more!
When I was a little girl, my Rush Limbaugh-loving, Nixon-supporting, Southern Baptist, Reagan-worshiping, Marine Corps. father explained to me that the Democrats wanted to give the Government too much power--the power to invade our privacy, eavesdrop on known criminals to collect evidence, read our mail, search our homes, etc.--that giving the government the power to do these things, even to solve crimes, was death to Democracy, and that the Republicans were the only ones in America who would protect America from such Undemocratic criminal assaults on our constitution and civil liberties. And something about the right to bear arms...
In terms of having a plan, which Naomi points out; a very good start is a very precise and almost surgical use of language.
For instance I agree with Gregory that W might as well be a darling of fascist minded folk. However as a protege, W belongs to the Great Political Machine of the Status Quo.
Broad brushing all Dems, and Republicans for that fact, is not useful, as for instance that would include Kucinich and Feingold, who I believe actually work for civil liberties.
I think W is beholden to the party Corporate Personhood, which is the political opponent of the Party of Actual Persons.
Corporate Personhood vs. Carbon Personhood
The exceptions to the rule of the Democrats being the protectors of the Bush Regime are so few and so powerless that they matter not a whit, except to the tender feelings of the nostalgic. Obama, by the way, is in no way an exception, having waxed eloquent on the subject of impeachment lately, and its inappropriateness.
Although there seems to be some discrepancy in the versions of Al'Jazeera and Kos as to the implications of the unfolding horrors in the Middle East, I'm with Kos: next week may well see events unfolding which will dwarf the discussions to date in the matter of the presidential races.
There's nothing like a fresh war to dominate the headlines, and obliterate any pesky discussions that The Regime doesn't appreciate.
gregory: the diary wasn't written by kos. it's posted at dkos, dailykos, the great orange satan.
just a tip.
Thankfully, HBO will air Taxi to the darkside.
Jump: I second that point. It always cracks me up that the Right drools on and on about "liberals" wanting the State to control everything, from healthcare to soup to nuts, but they just don't seem to be noticing the not-so-creeping (more like a tsunami) fascism of this regime.
As to the picture, I will just keep my big mouth shut.
But I do thank you.
Broad brushing all Dems, and Republicans for that fact, is not useful, as for instance that would include Kucinich and Feingold, who I believe actually work for civil liberties.
Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 3:45 pm | #
***
And thank you for that. Precision of langauge is one of the best weapons of thinking folks. Always.
Precision of langauge is one of the best weapons of thinking folks. Always.
QuakerDave-Hussein | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 5:05 pm |
Of course, so is the ability to SPELL...
[It always cracks me up that the Right drools on and on about "liberals" wanting the State to control everything, from healthcare to soup to nuts, but they just don't seem to be noticing the not-so-creeping (more like a tsunami) fascism of this regime.]
The amount of projecting done by this administration and its minions is jaw dropping. Rove turned it into a style of campaigning.
Excellent post, SBT. Very well thought through and presented very clearly in a voice that captures the urgency of the moment.
I vacillate between extreme depression and absolute RAGE against these goons who have very craftily stolen our country right out from under us.
I also cry because I can't figure out where the values of our citizenry have gone. Why is nearly everyone okay with all of this? If they are not okay with this, it certainly isn't coming across. There are a few of us here on the blogs, and a few who show up at protests, but for the most everyone else is perfectly comfortable with the way things are going. There seems to be no thirst for justice among our citizens these days, as long as they've got their little spot in paradise.
I watched a documentary on Sacco and Vanzetti yesterday, and there is footage of the MASSIVE protests in Boston and NYC and other major cities across the U.S., begging for justice for these two men. You should watch it--- tens of thousands of people in the streets clamouring for a fair trial.
I heard people laugh and mock the protesters who went to the Jena Six protests. WTF?
Ellie: I need a title for that film please.
Here's another inspiring film on activism, if you can find it. it was shown at our Meeting last month:
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2007/camden28/
It always cracks me up that the Right drools on and on about "liberals" wanting the State to control everything, from healthcare to soup to nuts, but they just don't seem to be noticing the not-so-creeping (more like a tsunami) fascism of this regime.
QuakerDave-Hussein | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 5:03 pm | #
The "fascism" which you abhor will be gone when the war is over. The Quaker's already had their turn at the Presidency; "Richard Nixon". He's the best you had; and a dismal failure.
If you think Nixon was a practicing Quaker, you need to read a book, not a blog, my friend. He was certainly not a good example of Quakerism in action.
Besides, traditional Quakerism rejects running for office and embraces real community service. Running for elected office is seen as pridefulness.
Nice try. You'll have to do better.
It's simply Sacco and Vanzetti, QD. It's by Peter Miller.
Here's a link http://firstrunfeatures.com/
sacc...anzettidvd.html
I got it from Netflix. It's an amazing work, since it takes today's issues (SBT's thread topic) and weaves it into the Sacco and Vanzetti trial. It draws the perfect parallel between then (The Red Scare pre-WWI) and now.
Adding it to the lineup at Netflix. THANKS!
Busboy Who's Sane | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 5:54 pm
If I interpret your comment correctly, you admit W is a fascist and that Nixon was a failure; that's 2 down out of the last 4 of your guys. Hmmm.
Why would the fascists end the war? It's their bread and butter. It's their ticket to the theater. It's the jingle jingle in their pocket (I ain't talking anatomy here).
Enjoy, QD! Watching it comes on the heals of re-reading Emma Goldman's autobiography "This is My Life". The writing is not the best, but she really gets into the nitty gritty of those days, and how dissenters, war protesters, and anybody /everybody was suspected of being anti-American were harassed, detained, deported, imprisoned, executed, brutalized.
Ellie | 03.02.08 - 6:00 pm | #
Sounds like Obama might want to end the war. Huck? Maybe.... Everybody else in politics becomes millionares from the defense contracts. Pelosi and Boxer being huge recipients via their husbands connections..
Done! It's on the list. Thanks, Ellie.
Obama SOUNDS like he might want to end the war. Pfffft! He's a DLC'er. He'll do as he is told.
And speaking of detentions and no due process, Home Depot here in DC has begun to have customers detained by Metro Police. Their crime? Returning goods for exchange/refund without having a receipt. My neighbor was held for shoplifting when he tried to return a tool that didn't work properly, but he did not have the receipt. HD security was called and he was taken to the office; where DC cops arrived shortly afterward.
It was posted on our neighborhood listserve, and lo and behold, this has happened to numerous people who have gone to HD to return items.
It's the jingle jingle in their pocket (I ain't talking anatomy here).
Ellie | 03.02.08 - 6:00 pm | #
Actually, you might be.
As an animated ogre once asked, "Do you think he might be compensating for something?"
A famous anti-nuclear activist once termed it "missile envy."
Ellie: ARE YOU SERIOUS?
This needs to be, like, all over the news! Geez louise.
Glad I go to Lowe's. Or Sears.
Craftsman tools tend to last forever, in my experience.
It's "company policy", QD, per the Home Depot spokesperson. Funny thing is, my neighbor is Hispanic and was heard to be "speaking Spanish", and the others who have reported in are African American. This is the only Home Depot inside the District, and it is located in an area that some would call a "bad area". Though it doesn't stop thousands of wealthy McMansion owners from shopping there. Mmmmmm.
I go to my neighborhood Tru Value hardware store. They have EVERYTHING. And it's quality stuff- not shit made in China. And the guys get so excited about your project! They will tell you everything you need to know, plus a few tall tales just for entertainment value! I love that place!
I'm sure the fact that some of our brothers and sisters of color are involved here is just a coincidence, right?
By the way, "This American Life" had a story today about a school closing in DC, like what you were telling me about before.
Key word: "neighborhood."
Yup. Local, local, local. I feel very fortunate that I have a mom and pop hardware store just blocks from my home.
Neighborhood listserves are great,too. If you don't have one, I encourage you to get one started. It's great for getting very local news (some of it's gossip, and there is the occasional feud, just like blogging) and information about stuff. This is how we found out about this Home Depot thing, as well as the school closings AND the new development plans that are taking shape.
Off to grade papers The pile is starting to go down, finally.
Nice talking to you, Ellie. Have a great week, all.
And that includes you, too, Busboy.
OMG-- I have new neighbors moving into the apartment next to mine, and I just heard them talking. THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH! Do you think they're legal? Should I call Chetoff or somebody?
[-Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 3:32 pm-]
One of the first posts I ever wrote, long before Les Enragés even existed, was on the constant move to the right of not just America's body politic, but the perception of where the middle is.
In the first of two posts, Been Right So Long (It Looks Like Left To Me), I defined the term Political Parallax.
" My definition of the term is this; everyone, I believe, accepts the fact that America has moved to the right politically for some time now, but Political Parallax is the idea that the gauge or measuring stick used to define that move has also moved to the right. This has had the effect that no-one in the US fully appreciates how far the rightward shift has gone. The reason that no-one grasps the facts is that the shift is the result of a delilberate effort on the part of the right, with a certain amount of collusion from the left.
It's easy to see how this perspective shift has occurred once it is recognized as the result of decades of subtle psyops (from the military term for psychological operations) primarily based on the manipulation of language. "
The post was one of my first efforts, and lost focus before I managed to home in on what I was trying to get across, but the idea was there. A second attempt, Political Parallax Revisited still couldn't really do much more than establish a riff to work on. It's a big subject, I wish I could wrap my head around it a little better. Glenn does a pretty good job, but I was on this meme some time ago. Merely defining the terminology is a challenge. This is an ineluctable trend in American history of tectonic proportions. It lends itself not so much to a post as a series of posts, and not so much to a series as to a book, nay a tome.
SBT-- it's the control of the language that I think has truly moved us into this position. I was thinking of this just yesterday. It seems that Fifth Avenue has taken control of the words "revolution" and "Movement". They have even stolen iconography such as the Peace Symbol (I see it everywhere now on billboards, advertisements, clothing-- I saw a bikini on a manekin yesterday that was printed with thousands of tiny peace signs).
They are well on their way to controlling all the environmental talk, by stealing anything "green" or "bio" or "clean". All of it is not an effort to slow down or halt climate change, but it is to CONTROL the MESSAGE about climate change. They are telling us now that is "okay" to be "green", and much like the yellow ribbon magnets on SUVs, everyone gets this very patriotic-doing-my-share euphoria, when in actuality they are causing more damage than good.
They have managed to get these values (shameless as they are) into the language. Once it gets into the language, it is frimly planted into the culture. It's hard to bust something out of a culture.
...tectonic proportions....
Yes. Plus the function of time. It's amazing how I think 10, 15, or 20 years have passed and this "ineluctability" has progressed. Somehow, you notice it in your bones, but not in yourself.
I'm still digesting after reading the Glenzilla this morning. I won't have a good grasp on it for a while if I am completely honest with myself.
[-Ellie | 03.02.08 - 7:31 pm-]
They've coined a word for that Ellie. The Astroturfing of America.
It reminds me of all those movies that Hollywood made in the mid sixties that tried to portray the hippy phenomenon, but didn't even approach any understanding of it. There would always be a scene where they'd go into a bar, and the music playing would be an attempt at rock and roll by someone (usually Nelson Riddle) who was in their 60s and had NO comprehension at all of The Beatles, let alone something edgier like The Doors or Jimi Hendrix. The sound tracks in the Austin Powers movies cracks me up, because they capture that faux hipness perfectly.
The old establishment farts never knew or cared what it meant to be hip, but they thought that if they could look hip they could make a buck from a very popular trend. Nothing changes, it seems.
Ellie, you're implying a pretty massive conspiracy. Here's my hypothesis: It's the same as "Press 1 for English". Companies began marketing peace symbols and the term "green" because they sell things. A guy can go out and buy a "green" 20-mpg Yukon and think he's doing something good. LIkewise "Peace" is a good concept, right? Put it on bikinis to sell it.
Problem isn't a vast conspiracy among marketeers and entrepreneurs, it's a vast ignorance on the part of consumers. That bikini was probably made with synthetic fabrics made from oil that we're fighting in Iraq for. That Yukon gets almost a fourth the fuel economy as the new VW hybrid. Yet the consumer doesn't know. They respond to the buzz word, as planned, and the sale is made.
BTW, just back from skiing with the Kentuckians. Them boys ain't half bad!
And, apropos, the next thread down, Bush is portrayed as boarder-trash.
Not some vast consipracy, Nosy; I didn't mean to imply that, though I can see how you might have gotten that. I do believe however, after reading Shock Doctrine that there has been a concerted effort for the last 40=50 years to move this country farther and farther to the right, and as SBT states, it has been driven by the Right with willing enablers on the left to get here.
Having said that, can you see how Madison Avenue plays right along and sets the trends for what is popular and what isn't? A few years ago, stuff with peace symbols on it would have died on the shelf--- we needed to be at war, and we didn't need no stinkin' peace symbols hanging around. Now that we are up to our eyeballs in endless war, it "safe" to give lip service to "peace"--- because they know full well that we can't stop it now.
I think all this sudden flooding of the markets with peace this and green that and revolution here and another Movement there (all superficially created) cheapens this language, which is quite helpful if you want to create a complacent country of sheep.
Good on your Kentuckians! Whew!
Ellie, there's another and somehow more comforting thought: That consumers WANT peace symbols and green products. Given my knowledge of business and competition, I'd say that's far more likely from product designers and marketeers, particularly when they're in competition with each other.
I don't deny there's been a movement to move the country to the right but it hasn't been hidden. It started with Goldwater and has progressed to today. See the signs, green and peace and Democrats out-voting Republicans by 2-1 and I see the country waking up. It's not as dramatic but I really think, were the right so popular, the bikini would be much bigger and there'd be a cross on it because that would be what consumers want.
Also, clothing takes 150 days from order to sale. That would indicate to me that the peace movement, that green as an acceptable marketing term started happening about a half-year ago. Another comforting thought.
Vis-a-vis the Kentuckians, one was pretty good on skis, another on the snowboard. The other two were about average, 50th percentile skiers. I took the boarder to school on glade skiing, a return of favor since he was one of my teachers in high school!
Laws Shmaws. Laws are made to be broken.
Just make sure YOU stop at the stop signs, and shut up and pay your dam taxes! Got it?
It's called desensitizing the public to corruption. Just as the last 10 years of cop shows have desensitized the public to tasers and police brutality. It's all part of the plan. the next generation won't even know what justice is, or was.
You'd attribute the folks who pulled off the aftermath of the Iraq War, Katrina and the economy with a plan of such magnitude? Personally I think they have trouble tying their shoes.
SBT,
In "labels", you should also include the Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act. 
It's COMIIIIING
Dinner time. Be back later.
Nosybear
It's why bush wears loafers.
Amerikagulag! Glad you showed up. I've got an audio program on Plan Mexico for you! Try this:
http://www.audioport.org/index.p...am_id=16678&
nav
If that one doesn't work, you might be able to get it here:
http://www.archive.org/details/
B...annedRepression
Ellie, thanks a lot.
"...But it is increasingly being used to militarize the
Mexican state to counter grassroots organizing and protest
from Oaxaca to Chiapas and throughout Mexico....."
Been my take on it for some time now. The Mexican people will only take so much. They've suffered for centuries under western domination.
wow such unruliness while i was not at my computer!
I found an interesting article yesterday. For anyone who's interested.
http://www.dailytech.com/
Tempera...rticle10866.htm
It doesn't surprise me though.
"SBT,
In "labels", you should also include the Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act.
It's COMIIIIING"
[-Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:11 pm-]
LOL, 'gulag. This post touched on so many of the themes familiar to Les Enragés regulars that a LOT of our labels applied. So much so that when I tried to publish I was informed that I had gone over the maximum allowed character count (200) and had to delete some.
A whole post, or even several, could be done on the 'sandtable' scenarios that could evolve from the declaration of martial law.
In almost all likely scenarios, the entire population is defined on day one as at least potential homegrown terrorists.
Cell phones, internet connections and eventually land lines would be cut off by the government very soon, most likely before the declaration of a state of emergency was made.
One side having communications and a command structure would be a major force multiplier.
Hello jenn.
There's a point where we have to quit bitching and start coordinating and planning.
You can call me all PollyAnna or whatever but I believe it's still possible to GHANDI-IZE change in this country. Peaceful and firm means can make a big difference.
The conscience is a powerful thing, and most people have one. The few that don't, well, you couldn't change them anyway.
Nonetheless, we have power if we choose to put our money where our mouths are, and exercise it.
It makes my heart sick when I read/hear/see US Imperialism in Latin America, and what it has done / is doing to the people there.
BTW-- this list of 10 Dictators around the world that was published in some magazine (don't know which one, somebody just mentioned it to me), lists Hugo Chavez. Excuse the hell out of me, but Hugo Chavez was a DEMOCRATICALLY elected President, unlike the goon that sits around wasting precious air in our White House. Why wasn't George W. Bush on that frikin list (he wasn't).
Ellie,
I'm already getting the anti-chavez emails from my idiot contacts. i just respond with "I ONLY buy Citgo gas". They shut up.
I'm expecting the soon-to-come "anti illegal latino invasion" emails. The election is coming. The right has to divide.
I'm all ready with my response.
UC-- you are so right. At some point we need to turn to civil disobedience. I was thinking about this earlier today as well, because the annual (God, can you believe it is an ANNUAL event now) March on Washington to protest the illegal war in Iraq is coming up.
But I don't think these protest marches are civil disobedience. They are CIVIL OBEDIENCE because the organizers bow to the power structure and NEGOTIATE the terms of the rally, the parade route, who can speak, who cannot speak, how many loudspeakers, where to put the stage, where you can't put the stage, how much the permit will cost, how much insurance is needed, blah, blah, blah.
By conforming to THEIR rules, they are OBEYING and kneeling before the very enemy we face!!!! You don't negotiate with THUGS.
Did Gandhi, or would Gandhi have sat down with the powers and negotiated any of his actions? HELL NO!
Ellie, there's another and somehow more comforting thought: That consumers WANT peace symbols and green products. Nosybear Downhill Demon | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:04 pm | #
I remember way back when there was a movement to get phosphates out of laundry detergent. The industry poo-pooed the idea, saying it would cost too much, it wouldn't clean as well, nobody would buy it, etc. One manufacturer decided to give it a try - maybe because of some law here in California. On their box, they put the words 'ecological' or something like that. The stuff FLEW off the shelves in Southern California. All of the other manufacturers followed suit.
The only people upset by this were the Anarchist Cookbook types, who need to search for another ingredient to make bathtub napalm.
Ellie, UC,
I'm afraid there isn't a "Ghandi" among us.
I always tell the Chavez detractors that bump into me to "Go read a full speech by Chavez and tell me you disagree with anything. I DARE you." I want them to read an entire speech,not just little quotes and convenient sound bites that are printed in our Lamestream Press. Same goes with speeches of Fidel Castro.
I dont' believe that consumers drive the fashion trends or any other trend. I believe the industries drive the consumers-- who happily jump aboard, especially if it means more stu--uff.
Ellie, Chavez says the right things but he is a crook. He skims as much as the rest of them do, paying lip-service to the poor.
Gary Hussein SF
I remember the scam with unleaded gas. It hit the market being more expensive than leaded as though it was refined even more. What consumers failed to realize is that lead was being ADDED previoulsy. Unleaded eliminated a process and profitted as though it were working harder.
[I'm afraid there isn't a "Ghandi" among us.]
Apparently and sadly not.
industries drive the consumers
BINGO..... anorexia and bullemia didn't catch on in the streets - it came from magazines and TV
[-Ellie | 03.02.08 - 8:28 pm-]
Right on Ellie. Of course the concept of 'free speech zones' is oxymoronic. If you're confined to certain out of the way zones, it's not free speech, by definition.
In my opinion you're holding your protests against the wrong entity. You would get much further by holding protests against the lamestream media (I LOVE that new Station Agent coinage!) If you can get 10,000 people camped out in front of FOX "news" or CNN, they would have a lot harder time ignoring you. And that would mean that the next protest would have 100,000, and the one after that 1,000,000. Then you're getting some serious attention.
It wouldn't hurt either to burn Tim Russert or Wolf Blitzer in effigy every weekend until they got the message.
Did Gandhi, or would Gandhi have sat down with the powers and negotiated any of his actions? HELL NO!
Ellie | 03.02.08 - 8:28 pm |
He actually did.
I'm afraid there isn't a "Ghandi" among us.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:30 pm
Then keep bitching, or become a "little" Ghandi. It's not up to someone else. It's up to YOU as well as ME.
I ain't no Ghandi saint, but I will continue to do the little things I can do. In the aggregate, they count.
Gary-- I'm going to go down there to Venezuela sometime soon, to find out for myself what's going on. Who is telling you that he is a crook and skimming off the top? That's an important consideration, since he is the target of a very well planned psy-ops operation.
maybe ellie is gandhi. ?
We all have the potential to be a Ghandi. Stop bitching and get off your asses.
If there are 'problems' in the voting in Denver and the nomination is stolen - from either Barak or Hillary, it is the nail in the coffin of democracy in the US.
We can start shredding our flags to be used as dust rags.
If cousin Hugo sold his oil to China when our contract with him is over, do you think G.W. would invade Venezuela?
Trust, me I'm NO Gandhi. Hell, I can't even spell his name correctly half the time. Nope, too much violence lives inside of me. Gandhi would sit down and hunger strike. I would rather kick and punch the goons in the gut. That's just me.
It's only a matter of time before the US invades Venezuela. What do you think all this activity in Colombia and Paraguay is about?
Ellie | 03.02.08 - 8:34 pm | #
I've heard both sides of the coin on him. But he doesn't hold a candle to bush when it comes to being a dangerous psychopath.
He nationalized oil and gas to protect it from foreign influence - just like Putin. He's taken huge plots of land in major cities to begin farms for food in order to cut imports.Venezuela has plenty of land, but imports a high percentage of food. He "seems" to have his peoples interest at heart. That's not to say he doesn't take home huge chunks of cash. He is a native indigenous.
No way in hell does the US invade in this same hemisphere.
Contrary to popular belief, the majority of the oil we consume COMES from our very own hemisphere. The goons only prop up the whole oil market vis-a-vis the Middle East because of the whole global corporate set up.
Gary Hussein
I've been off my ass all day. It's time to sit down.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more Americans than this little rag tag group of bloggers and a number of other bloggers from other sites to take this country back. Somehow, the rest of the U.S. needs to get agitated and irritated enough to get off THEIR butts. And it is going to have to hit the fascists where it hurts fascists the most-- the pocketbooks. Money is the only language they understand, the love of money is the only emotion they are capable of experiencing.
Marches, rallies, letter writing, editorializing, phone calling, faxing, emailing means NOTHING to this shameless bunch of homeland wreckers. The American People need to get organized and start striking and boycotting-- shut down one industry at a time-- cripple, them, bring them to their goddamned knees.
say what you want about Chavez but anyone who can say, in front of the whole world, "The Devil was here, I can smell the sulfer" about bush, is OKAY in my book.
Gary, the coffin of democracy has already been well and truly nailed shut, for all intents and purposes. Did you even read my post?.All these headlines re: the total demise of anything approaching a justice system are from this week alone. Search this blog alone on justice issues and you'll see there are dozens of instances where the constitution has been ignored in favor of the powers that be, and we haven't really been that active. Search a bigger site like C&L or TPM and it goes to hundreds of separate travesties over the Bush regime's seven years. The metaphor has changed -it's no longer nails in the coffin, it's shovels full of dirt being thrown into the grave.
I have mistakenly used the term 'second American Revolution' for the movement, should there ever be one, that restores what once was. It should be the THIRD American Revolution. The second has already occurred - the usurpation of civil power by Bu$hCo™ on behalf of their corporatist masters.
And they won that war with most of America not even knowing that it was being waged.
"homeland"
Ellie,
I've come the hate that word as one of Hitler's vocabulary.
I mean, it's not like there's a "vacationland" somewhere.
Chavez has built more schools, opened more universities and trade schools, community centers, hospitals and clinics than the number of pretzels george w. bush has consumed since taking office.
I hate the term "homeland" also, 'gulag. That was a meager attempt at a play on words of the term "home wrecker". Oh well.
of pretzels george w. bush has consumed
Ellie |
Ohhhhh, but if that "ONE" had only been BIGGER!!!!
DARN the luck!
[And they won that war with most of America not even knowing that it was being waged.]
Most people don't even know it NOW.
SBT, I am putting a lot of stock in the potential for democracy to emerge with a new president.
Ellie, a national strike day, even in just one industry sector would be very effective.
Gotcha Ellie, like minds.
SBT. I hate to agree with you but sadly, I find it impossible to disagree.
Gary Hussein
I wish I could agree with you, but with the list of candidates bought and paid for my the machine, I'm afraid I'll believe with my eyes now. I've only got about 20 years left.
Exactly, Gary. That would make SOMEBODY sit up and notice, whereas a protest march of a few tens of thousands gets a "ho hum, how quaint they are, with their signs and chants" ;
Then again, according to the Maya, we've only got about 4 years left.
There's a point where we have to quit bitching and start coordinating and planning.
You can call me all PollyAnna or whatever but I believe it's still possible to GHANDI-IZE change in this country. Peaceful and firm means can make a big difference.
The conscience is a powerful thing, and most people have one. The few that don't, well, you couldn't change them anyway.
Nonetheless, we have power if we choose to put our money where our mouths are, and exercise it.
Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:23 pm | #
Ellie, UC,
I'm afraid there isn't a "Ghandi" among us.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:30 pm | #
***
Look in the mirror.
"YOU must BE the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi.
Gary Hussein SF
Have you ever seen those emails where people plan NOT to buy gas on a certain day, in order to hit the oil companies?
Some graffitti artists came through my neighborhood a while back and tagged the metro line with calls for "Strike!" and "End the War" and "Smash Capitalism" and "Workers Unite". There's about a mile of this kind of graffitti.
I guess that makes me a Polly-Gandhi, too.
Ellie: Somebody must have taken a labor history class recently...
QuakerDave-Hussein |
God bless Ghandi, but I don't see a change in the mirror QD. My hope is that there are enough who do.
Gulag, not buying gas on Thursday is useless if it leads to long lines on Friday. The thing people have to do is make decisions that count. That kind of meaningless protest will solve nothing.
Back in a few. Mr. B just finished making a nice dinner.
I. Have. More. To. Say!
Respectfully, QD, platitudes are nice (especially from an esteemed soul such as Gandhi) but I think those words are lost on the general public. I think we "get it" here, and most of us are trying to be the change we wish to see. But we are struggling mightily because we seem to be a very, very minute part of the population who even gives damn.
All we have to do is to find simple ways to act on our convictions. I ride my bike to work on Fridays. I watch where I shop. I use reusable bags and bottles. Etc.
Every-day radicalism. It's not too hard once you start.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:52 pm | #
I don't get those no gas emails. I don't buy much gas, maybe 12 gallons every 6 weeks, so it doesn't really work for me.
Nosybear
That was my point.
QD-- 
I've been studying labor history off and on for a few years now. I always fall back on my blue collar roots and I do beleive in the power of the working person.
How does one get a moniker again?
It's not about platitudes. Those words have power. They are ACTIVE verbs. It's a matter of finding ways of putting your ideas into actions, and then spreading those words and those actions, showing other people it can be done.
It's also a fun way to meet nice people! Seriously. You have no idea how many people I've met in the last month or so because I tote around a stack of reusable plastic bags made of recycled water bottles. They're really gaudy and attract attention. I'm their best sales person.
" SBT, I am putting a lot of stock in the potential for democracy to emerge with a new president. "
[-Gary Hussein SF | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:48 pm-]
A new president is not going to be able to redress the current makeup of the Supreme Court - who look like they will have a Republican/conservative majority for at least a couple of decades.
A new president is unlikely to turn back the legislative clock to status quo ante. Nor is a new president likely to have the will to pursue criminal and treason charges against the worst of the current regime. Like the aftermath to Watergate and Iran/Contra the priority will be on 'healing the nation.' More like trying to cure cancer with a Band-Aid™ if you ask me. Lots of torturers, murderers and war profiteers will go free to live in luxury on their ill gotten gains. In a few years they and others will be back.
A new president will have his hands full with a major recession or even a depression, and have hundreds of thousands of troops stuck in Iraq.
The corporate structure isn't going to suddenly go away by itself.
The lamestream media isn't going to suddenly discover the meaning of the term journalistic integrity.
The theocrats aren't going to suddenly roll over and give up.
states sent two statues each for display in the us capitol. utah did NOT send joe hill.
hussein polly-ghandhi ?
Ellie, the working person only has power if organized. Otherwise, they're working alone against an organized group, a corporation. Not very effective.
I'm in management; however, I believe in a strong labor movement to keep us honest.
This thread is giving me an idea for a post. Who wants in?
Go for it, Dave!
QD--- I practice that kind of everyday radicalism, everyday, and I believe most of us here do too. That's a great thing, and it is powerful. But really, in this big picture that SBT has so eloquently drawn for us, does it REALLY matter, will it REALLY make a difference if I recycle this can or not?
I don't think we have time to gather a critical mass with those kinds of acts of radicalism. I think our radicalism needs to be stepped up.
Did you EXPECT them to send Joe?
i was encouraged by the election of Donna Edwards over the dino in office in the ? maryland primary recently.
and the huge dem turnouts everywhere, even in utah.
" SBT. I hate to agree with you but sadly, I find it impossible to disagree. "
[-Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:48 pm-]
I hear ya'. Fact is I hate to agree with some of the stuff I feel compelled to say. It ain't gonna get any better by ignoring it even further.
The theocrats aren't going to suddenly roll over and give up.
Of the three, I think those are the easiest to dismiss with facts because they thrive and organize on fables.
If I post it, I hope you will come along.
I don't expect the theocrats or the plutocrats to give up.
I do expect to find ways to make them very uncomfortable.
QD - that, sir is activism.
Voting for progressive candidates when we get the chance.
Radical Act #1. It's a start.
Nosybear-- excellent point, that I should have added to that comment. I have a habit of hitting the publish button before a thought is complete. Then I get distracted by another comment, and well, somebody like you has to finish the job!
I'm glad that you recognize that it's the workers that keep you "honest" while you are in management. I was an HR /Labor Relations Manager for a Fortune 500 company for awhile. I had to resolve all the union grieveances, and nine times out of ten, I found myself on theWRONG side of the argument!
(because I had to represent Management's side)
Did it again.
SadButTrue | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:58 pm | #
My gut tells me that the problems we are going to be facing are going to be so severe that the SCOTUS will be irrevelent.
I'm talking about food shortages due to the lack of planning for climate/rainfall changes due to 'global warming,' toxic foods and water, the fall of a consumer-based economy, etc.
This is my primary reason for supporting Obama. With his power of speech, he may be able to convince people to do the right thing.
Did you know that when the Polio vaccine was first introduced for mass immunizations, it had to be refrigerated? The health care infrastructure did not have any means of delivering vaccine in refrigerated trucks. Across the country, dairies and other industries that used refrigerated trucks donated them and the drivers for the purpose of mass immunizations. The Civil Defense boards set up clinics. People came together then and we can and will do it again.
QD-- if you post it, surely I will come along. I can't speak for the others, but I'm guessing they will too.
I'm also in a conflict against management. Right now in my job classification in my area, I'm paid 77% of market reference. There's a second thing workers can do and it's what I'm doing: We can constantly be on the lookout for our next opportunity (read job if you want). That way, management never knows if it's going to have you around in two weeks or not and has to make decisions based on the thought that their entire workforce could disappear.
Okay. I'll think of a list of things, and then we'll ask for folks to chip in on the comment thread.
You can maybe send me some ideas at my email (at my blog: can't post it here).
"Management manges,
Labor grieves. As in grieVANCE."
Nosybear Downhill Demon
When I worked in the trades (before they were outsourced) we used to say, "just smile and never let 'em know you're thinking"
*manages*
It's getting late...
Management manges too, from time to time....
Keep 'em guessing - that's my idea for starting a labor movement of individuals.
I dunno, QD. I kind of like the idea that management manges. I don't know what that is exactly but I'll bet neither does Management. Management rarely knows what it's doing anyway!
Did anyone catch "60 Minutes" tonight? About this outfit, Remote Area Medical? It made me so angry, but it was also quite inspiring.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...in3889496.shtml
joe hill is a true hero.
[never let 'em know you're thinking"]
The Teamsters local business rep that I had to deal with when I was doing the HR/LR job was the most poker-faced guy I've ever met. He really did a good job for his brothers and sisters.
Yeah, I think the "mange" was a Freudianish slippige.
I've gotten quite good at the sly smile required by AR/building reps for our union...
Okay, slip him a Freudian....
Stealthy, Like a Ninja...
QD, I can't watch TV - I don't have one. THIS is my TV
Lively bunch tonight.
Those Remote Area docs wil proably be detained and sent to Gitmo for subversive, terrorist activity.
Check out the post, Amerika. It's pretty pathetic that an outfit set up to deliver health care in the Amazon is delivering healthcare in Nashville now.
On the other hand, the fact that they do this is incredible. I think we'll be sending them a check.
Okay, I wanna get a Moniker. i need help.
Who wants to instruct this old fart?
i am going to have a square foot garden, and i am working on convincing husband we need a CSA too. he is being stubborn.
http://www.squarefootgardening.com/
with VEGETABLES. no flowers !
tomatoes in one row!
[Lively bunch tonight.]
Fer sure! Is it hot in here? Or is just me?
amerikagulag, you have a moniker: it's amerikagulag.
do you want a gravatar ?
Ellie: how does that go?"
"When I gave the people bread, they called me a saint.
When I asked why the people were hungry, they called me a communist."
Somebody please help the old fart get a GRAVATAR. Good gawd, he doesn't even know what it's called!
He wants a cool little cartoon guy, too!
jenniloon
See what i Mean? I need help - I don't even know what it is. HAH!
jenniloon-- you may want to plant just a FEW flowers with your veggies--- they will keep the pests away; some will attract beneficial insects that will eat the bad pests.
Important to (and missed by the American) labor movements: Labor has to add value to the business. Sorry, folks, but business is all about creating value for customers. Labor, well, I can remember growing up in a UMWA household. In one case, a union member went into an office, punched out the supervisor and was defended by the union. The union should have demanded the employee's dismissal in that case!
Labor should provide trained workers, should police productivity and should provide quality products and services, in short, create value commensurate with the wages they require. That's win-win negotiation, beats the hell out of adversarial.
We're doing a bee garden this spring. We want the bees!
And yes, a few hearty bee-attracting plants do wonders for your veggies.
QD- I have that saying on a poster in my office and in my home office, too. It's one of my favorites.
My second favorite poster says, "Conformity: Proudly serving painfully boring people since time began."
Ellie - Mums have a natural insecticide called Pyrethrin. It's in all the flea shampoos - or a derivative thereof. .
Nosy: No argument there. There's nothing I hate more than having to go in and defend incompetence, esp. if it's a teacher.
Intersperse chrysanthemums with your beans - it will help keep the beetles out of the beans organically.
Sorry, Nosybear, Management needs to TRAIN the workers and provide whatever tools/equipment/materials is necessary to do QUALITY work. Quality is the responsibility of management-- they're the ones seeking the big bonus checks.
ta-ta amigos. I off to a tango lesson and then tapas.
Oooh la, la, Tango lessons!!! Wow!
OK 'gulag - when you say moniker, I assume you really mean gravatar. You've already got a moniker - Amerkagulag. (Moniker just means name, or handle, alias, ...)
Go to http://site.gravatar.com and register. You MUST use a valid email address, because the registration process is completed when they email you back an acknowledgement and you respond.
Once your registration is confirmed, sign in. Presumably you've already got a graphic to upload. The online process is pretty easy, and you can crop and scale your image right through their upload tool, although if you have an image editor ( I recommend the freeware irfanview ) you can crop to an 80X80 before you start.
Once you upload an image it can take anywhere from 15 minutes to a full day before it actually displays on comments. In order for it to display you MUST enter the SAME email addy you registered with into the Email: field when you post a comment.
Any questions?
Oh man, I would love to take tango w/Mrs. Agitator...
Ellie, sorry, dear, then no need for organized labor. Just trying to extort money is not creating value for customers.
SadButTrue |
You're the best!
Thaaaank you thank you, thank you......I shall be back soon.
Okay, I'll just bite my tongue now and not go all Joe Hill on y'all after that one... Trying to stay calm... center down...
there is some labor protestor guy who is a national hero in australia. in utah, joe hill is just another criminal.
http://www.eurekaballarat.com/in...ntpage&
Itemid=1
peter lalor was one of the leaders, and he went on to survive the shootings and serve in parliament.
I'm hugely in favor of unions, but when they defend incompetence or featherbedding, they lose me.
SBT. Person of many techno-talents.
Nosy, so many times, every single day, there would be quality problems at the factories I worked at. The workers took the heat every single time for the problems. They begged for materials. They reported machine problems time and time and time again, and nothing was ever done to repair or replace the machinery. They had solutions to the problems but management dismissed them as stupid, or too expensive, or too this or too that. The company suffered big losses each year because of quality and timeliness issues. It was the management that was the root of the problem. Not the workers-- they wanted things to go better because 1. it would be less headaches for them throughout the day and 2. they wanted to hang onto their jobs.
... and it's not like Corporate America EVER defends incompetence or featherbedding...
Oops... stopped biting the old tongue there for a sec...
No need to bite anything, QD. We're among friends. Just varying points of view.
Sad, my point exactly. They should bring value to the table. Labor itself is not - I can get labor just about anywhere a lot cheaper than from unions. Union, send me someone I can immediately employ, perhaps not in all details but who knows the basics of, say, Autocad. That brings me value. Demand I keep a non-productive employee? I want you gone.
Ellie, I'm not defending my side either. In Process Improvement, we generally find that employees are ready, even anxious, to begin working more efficiently. It's precisely the "concrete heads" you mention who derail, sabotage or stonewall the improvements. Neither side is right!
" ... and it's not like Corporate America EVER defends incompetence or featherbedding... "
[-QuakerDave-Hussein | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 9:26 pm-]
The one seemingly valid argument that underpins all conservative thought is the idea that competition produces efficiency, and is therefore good. The thing is, without strict regulation free market capitalism quickly devolves into crony capitalism and then into monopolistic trusts, EVERY damn TIME. And every time the 'invisible hand of the marketplace' curls into a fist to either punch you in the face or pick your pocket.
I think that simple fact undermines their ideology pretty badly.
Yup, SBT. And that's the argument they always use to privatize public education.
And that's a rant for another day...
It's the blaming all of the corporate failures on Unions that started this anti-labor shit way back when Reagan opened that door. It is now fashionable (going back to language, culture, and the shaping of the country to the right) to lay the blame entirely on unions and corporations are rarely dissed for their mismanagement and blockheaded decisions. This is where the labor movement needs to take back their power and reclaim the language and their purpose.
Okay, I'm going off to bed now, so I want you UnRulies to think about emailing me some cool ideas for a little something we'll call something like "Random Acts of Everyday Radicalism."
Attribution will be provided.
My email is at my place.
Okay?
there is a quote in a diary at dkos, related to the roberts quote in the post, and it
gave me hope and
relates to issues
here's the diary:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonl...0438/408/
467422
it's story only, without the comments, which are now over 200.
here's the quote:
"but the lawyer for the oil spill’s victims, Professor Jeffrey Fisher of Stanford Law School, had the answer: "It can hire fit and competent people.""
now off to treadmill . . .
we have a good friend who was in his mid30s and single. he started some new hobbies - contra dancing, tango lessons, and speed skating - long track. he met a gal at one of the dances, and they are getting married in june!
This is where the labor movement needs to take back their power and reclaim the language and their purpose.
Ellie | 03.02.08 - 9:34 pm | #
RIGHT-EFFIN'-ON!
QuakerDave-Hussein
Good night QD
QD-- is there a deadline? When do you plan to put this post up? I'll try to think of some things.
Good nite. Sleep well, so you can teach well tomorrow!
jenn: My sister-in-law met her hubby at a full-contact karate class.
Ellie: By this weekend, maybe? This will be a busy week for me, as I have grades coming due. Whenever you can.
I think I'm done for tonight as well. I've got to bathe and get my head around the fact that tomorrow is Monday.
Keep up the unruliness! This was a wild one, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
G'night, all.
Have a great week. Seeya when I catch up.
what does qd want us to email him?
now off to tmill!
Ciao Ellie,
See ya soon
I've been getting the impression the liveliness of this thread might have been due to the sheer number of outrages I linked to, plus the number mentioned in Naomi Wolf's article. Good thing I published before I saw This bit from Glennzilla. It kind of dovetails into my old posts about Political Parallax alluded to above. But this paragraph about the FISC (court that oversees FISA when it's not being sidestepped by the PAA) just sends my blood pressure through the roof.
" The FISC is a classically Kafka-esque court that operates in total secrecy. Only the Government, and nobody else, is permitted to attend, participate, and make arguments. Only the Government is permitted to access or know about the decisions issued by that court. Rather than the judges being assigned randomly and therefore fairly, they are hand-picked by the Chief Justice (who has been a GOP-appointee since FISA was enacted) and are uniformly the types of judges who evince great deference to the Government. As a result, the FISA court has been notorious for decades for mindlessly rubber-stamping every single Government request to eavesdrop on whomever they want. "
And this is the provision that Bu$hCo™ is always complaining ties their hands in the War on Tur.
Hopefuly not in the funny papers, Amerikagulag! I'd hate to think that I've become a cartoon character of myself!!!!
The horrors!
Now I'm out.
Ciao!
jenniloon hussein
Ideas for random acts of........unruliness.
Dam I almost said violence.
War on Tur
That's a new one. Not bad..
Wow - I go have a little din-din and KAPOW! All this unruliness!
Tur - that's how Georgie moron pronounces it. One thing he's not, and that's a scholar of the English language.
One thing he's not, among the million other things
One thing he is, is a waste of skin.
" Wow - I go have a little din-din and KAPOW! All this unruliness! "
[-Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 9:43 pm-]
Yeah, UC - when you're not around we feel free to express ourselves.
Seriously, I'd up the unruliness color alert system, but it's already at VIOLET: "torches alit." The only level above that is FUSCHIA: "Revolutionaries in Action." And that can only be invoked when there are actual barricades of burning tires in the streets.
Well, maybe you should put the alert up to FUSCHIA. We probably do need some actual ACTION, but maybe not all the way to bricks and burning tires.
But Action for sure.
"It takes a revolution to provide a solution"
Yeah, I could do with a little action...oops, did I say that?
One thing I think is very important to bring up is, the amount of time it will take to cure all these previous wrongs.
It's not going to be short. It's going to take a long time. At least as long as it's taken to make this whole frikking mess.
And that comforts me in one small way. It's do-able. With patience and work, it's totally do-able.
Hey Joe!
One thing I think is very important to bring up is, the amount of time it will take to cure all these previous wrongs.
Unconventional Conventionist |
Assuming, of course, that "cure" is what they do indeed want to do. I think you're giving them too much credit UC. Their actions since 2000 have led to this - all in chorus. One has to assume the current state of affairs was intentional. I certainly assume that because they haven't given me ANY reason to think otherwise.
And they won that war with most of America not even knowing that it was being waged.
SadButTrue | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:44 pm | #
See how handy W's "bumbling idiot" persona came in?
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 10:18 pm
I made no "they" statements Gulag, and I gave no credit to anybody. I'm talking about US.
It's up to us to fix the shit, whether you like it or not. We have janitor duty.
"Action" is good for the soul.
My opinion.
Unconventional Conventionist, ask yourself this question:
If I've run rough-shod over the constitution, committed untold acts of treason, barbary and treachery, bankrupted the treasury, secured ENORMOUS profits for my friends and cohorts, not to mention myself, would I be interested in helping the 'little guy"?
No, I would be far more interested in keeping the little guy down in the ashes so he can't fight back. I'd care more about hindering his ability to eek out a living and obtain enough food for his family so as to be sure he wasn't interested or able to organize against me. - just my take on it.
G'night Ellie and QDave.
Active dreams.
Hi UC
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fx6iIp-PvnY
When at last the work is done.....
there was the most inspirational quote by gandolf to frodo in the mines of moria. i will look for it. but first i may need to shop a bit - i have an overwhelming urge to color my hair. and i'm not really sure i have sandwich bread for school in the morning.
random acts of unruliness.
Gulag,
I agree, but to quote a complete criminal, there are "unknown unknowns."
oh La, Jump!
Hi, Nosybear!!
Hi, All.
" It's going to take a long time. At least as long as it's taken to make this whole frikking mess. "
[-Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:07 pm-]
OK, that's a long time.
Going back to those posts about Political Parallax I wrote at Friendly Neighbor, the first one talks about the Reagan campaign of 1980, when the reight wing started referring to liberals as 'the L word', to make it sound dirty. The second post went back further to the Business Plot of 1933. But if you think about it, the effort to take rights away from the carbon-based 'We the People' can be traced to when they first GAVE rights to corporate 'persons.' And that was established in the 1886 Supreme Court case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad.
Are you willing to wait until 2130 AD or beyond?
Gulag, I don't expect any of those who have participated in the crimes to be part of the cure.
I do expect it out of myself. And you, frankly. Any of you on this blog.
If you don't want to participate in the curing, that's up to you.
Hiya Jump
UC, look to South Africa....
Unconventional Conventionist.
I'm not attacking you UC. I just find little in the 'upcoming elections' to be redeeming for the future.
you may say it's up to "us", and to a certain extent, you're right, but how the heck to you propose that "we" fix the dam roads when there isn't enough money?
Are you willing to wait until 2130 AD or beyond?
SadButTrue | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:27 pm
No. But there is no way this whole mess is cured instantly. That's all I mean. It's going to take a long time. The parts we can play, we should is all I'm saying.
The process of the cure is going to be as important as the cure itself.
Hiya, Joe.
Unconventional Conventionist | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:27 pm | #
UC,
I totally agree with that.
The last thing I'm gonna do is roll over.
Americans are a funny bunch, with a lot of piss, vinegar, and firearms once they realize they are in a corner.
I expect it to be a wild ride.
UC. I hear you. I agree.
Are you willing to wait until 2130 AD or beyond?
SadButTrue | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:27 pm
SBT - the Mayan Calendar ends in 4 years... See? All Fixed.
Maybe that's why they've pulled the rug out from under humanity.
There is no cure - humans are pack animals responding to dominance. To be dominated is the natural condition of humanity. Our experiment in self-governance is the exception.
" I just find little in the 'upcoming elections' to be redeeming for the future. "
[- Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 10:28 pm-]
Not just the upcoming 2008 elections, but subsequent ones as well. Unless some very serious work is done to take the influence of big multinational corporate money out of the process, you are going to continue to get corporate whores in the halls of power, on both sides of the aisle.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
Americans are a funny bunch, with a lot of piss, vinegar, and firearms once they realize they are in a corner.
Jump to the Hussein Left | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:31 pm | #
Kooks on the loose with guns. Hang on, wild ride is an mild statement.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 10:28 pm
I don't think you're attacking. I just think we're all in the same canoe, and since we all agree it's floundering, the bitching is pointless, and we better fucking BAIL!
And parts of that fix is at the local level. Wanna fix a bridge? Smack your statehouse and insist they do.
SBT just mailed me this shit this weekend that I hadn't heard of. Industry wants to drill for oil etc. in the Baca Wildlife Preserve. I'm gonna hit up Andy Romanoff, the Dem speaker of the Senate in the Colorado Legislature. THat's one thing I can do.
SadButTrue
The definition of insanity, according to AA, is doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results.
Pretty much sums up the US electoral process right now.
Here's a link that everybody should have somewhere in their bookmarks. I have a 'keepers' folder where things go that I may rely on time and again in the future. This one is of some use.
The History of Corporations (United States)
Unconventional Conventionist
Send the info to the Izaak Walton League too...for me.
IWLA.org
We fought the Arctic Refuge drilling - look where it got us.
IWLA was instrumental in the Clean Air and Water Act.
I've been a member for 20 years and even THEY can't fight this gang of Corporatists.
Done SBT. Thanks
I'm still waiting for Gravitar to reply.... :-(
been almost an hour. They said 20 minutes.
What's crazy and little known about the Baca preserve is that it's actually part of the San Luis Valley, a HUGE Hispanic enclave and part of a thing called the "Baca Land Grant."
Way back in the 1600's the King of Spain granted the land, and it's an ENORMOUS TRACT. Millions of acres. It's Salazar country too.
Bizarre how Colonial History continues to echo throughout the West. And Eastern Seaboard types think we have no history.
Not good:
http://www.time.com/time/world/a...eed-rss-
netzero
Chavez puts troops on Colombian border.
The bush media will spin it as an aggressive move against a peaceful neighbor.
Gulag, I can sign into haloscan and moderate all comments on this blog. EVERY damn TIME that someone can't get their gravatar to show, it's because they haven't filled in the Email: field when they post a comment. Same as in your case.
Name:
>Amerikagulag
Email:
>youraddy@server.com
URL:
>you can leave this blank, or put any URL that you want to promote
Comment: ? (thumbsnap thingy)
>Where you enter your comment.
Got it?
SadButTrue
Well I'll be.......duly noted.
I've used the URL thing for thumbsnaps.
but i still haven't completed the Gravitar response thing because they haven't sent me an email to do so.
OK, I think it's high time I responded to the first comment on this thread, about gratuitous cleavage. Yep, I deliberately chose the sexiest picture of Naomi Wolf I could find for this post. Two reasons. #1, I thought the apish drooling of Dave of the Jungle a couple of threads below was a little over the top, and wanted to see if I could make him fall out of his tree. #2, I find it ironic that Ms. Wolf made her reputation by writing a book called The Beauty Myth, while her own outward appearance seems to belie the 'myth' premise. I loves me my irony.
Do you have a spam catcher, Gulag? They usually send that email in 10 seconds. Odd that you didn't get it yet.
All they asked for initially was an email addy. They have that. It said they'd respond with and email to complete the process. I'm still waiting on that.,
I haven't even chosen a pic yet.
Yeah, the registration email comes immediately.
Nothing that wouldn't get through. Juno isn't THAt crazy. I doubt it.
Maybe I'll try again.
In any event, I know how to do it. Thanks to you! And for that I'm eternally grateful.
I would try again, Gulag.
I dig Naomi Wolf, in all her brilliant humanness. What a dazzling brain, and what a warm smile.
I posted a comment a while back as Kal El from Krypton. I made up an email addy, registered at hotmail, registered that address at haloscan and had a Superman gravatar in less than 5 minutes.
I loves me Naomi too - platonically. Ditto on Digby. That woman's brain gets me just a-hopping.
I DIG that she doesn't have to desexualize her appearance in order to make a convincing argument. I really do.
Well SBT, got it
Tried again and it said "We've sent you another copy of the activation email."
took some time apparently. I spoze it had to go through Homeland Security first to be approved.
back in a bit...
Gulag,
After you upload your image, make sure you rate it, and then "choose" it. It should start appearing shortly after that (assuming you are typing the email address in the "Email" box above the comment box).
" I DIG that she doesn't have to desexualize her appearance in order to make a convincing argument. I really do. "
[-Jump to the Hussein Left | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:59 pm-]
If we start being ashamed of our bodies, the terrorists (in the White House, but also in the fundie churches) have won, for truth. I regard the freedom of sexual expression as a sacred right.
Gulag, if I'm running DHS and they've taken all the oversight controls away, the first place I would start datamining would be IM servers and places like haloscan.
Just sayin', not trying to make you paranoid. It's just something we have to deal with. If they scare us into silence, we have lost.
Geez Louise, I've scared everybody into silence.
Everybody's Gone Away. (Goodtime Charlie's Got The Blues)
And for the record, the email address I use for my polar bear gravatar is not webmail, but a server-based addressed provided by my ISP. It can be connected to a phone # and street address.
Mind you, I am in Canada, so...
Peep Peep...
*Scratches armpit. Examines big toe*
Hiya, HotJ!
I ain't scared a no spooks.
Now, polar bears is something else.
What Game Shall We Play Today?
If Jump doesn't love this song, I will be very surprised. It's very much in the same vein as Waters of March.
Hmmmm....
Polar bears is the biggest terrestrial predator on the planet HotJ. And the spooks can kiss my fat white ass.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/6S8RtkRK.jpg
I got trees to save my ass.
Ok, SBT, I'm on gravitar, got the pics loaded, type in my email addy in the space above. And nada.
Is it the URL thingy?
hi! home! hair color in hand, as well as fresh veggies and fruits and frozen veggies for suppers.
and more seeds for my unruly subversive garden!
thanks for the reply sbt!
and amerikagulag, your grav rocks!
jenniloon hussein
It ain't showing up for me.
it's this curly grey thing, right ? looks somewhat hindi to me.
oh this happened to someone else. let's see
try closing your window, or use F5 key or, what was it that solved it?
yeah, Jenn. That's it, It's not hindi, it's my birthsign in Mayan astrology.
But I still can't see it. i closed the whole kitt&kaboodle. maybe later.
Whoa....there it is! Hmmm, not as good as I hoped. Oh well., It'll have to do.
cool! mayan astrology! birthsign! very very kewl!
Wow, it's applying it to all my previous comments too. I'm being retroactively gravitated!
Yeah, and if you change it, it will retroactively apply even to comments you made months ago (as long as that same email address is filled in.)
Wow....Thanks SBT! You da BOMB. Can I shrink it? Seems so BIG.
I like them big.
Oh, anything more than 40 pixels is a waste
Only the blog owner can adjust the size of the gravatars. They are now at maximum (80X80 pixels) by popular request. I preferred them at 60X60, but was overruled. I think the default size is 32X32.
I'll take my ball and go home.
Okay, gotcha. I'll learn to live with it.
*Hangs upside down. Goes ape shit*
Gee HotJ, I thought you were going to go ape shit over the picture of Naomi Wolf that I put at the top of the post. I'm surprised at your restraint.
I do confess that she thrills my soul at some deep level.
Well, I guess I should be waltzing off to the blankets.
I'll leave you folks to kibitz.
Thanks again for the help SBT.
Good night all. Peace.
See ya, Gulag.
here is the LOTR quote:
Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.
the most important part is this:
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
De rien Gulag. Pleasant dreams.
"May you live in interesting times." - Chinese Saying
sweet dreams a-gulag!
Sorry, just found this and had to share. More to get mad about.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.or....org/node/
31473
War Profiteer to Purchase Diebold and Count Your Votes Fair and Square - Promise
Now I'm really out.
Good night.
the LOTR quote is from the book also.
The Harry Potter books treat things similarly. Dumbledore tells Harry a number of times that this is what fate has handed to him, but it's what he chooses to do with it that really matters. No doubt, there are some interesting times ahead.
And with that, I seek the sheets.
http://thumbsnap.com/v/Fq9qkoHS.jpg
There seems to be a lot of pre-9/11 thinking going on here.
I'll notify the NSA...
oh sweet dreams that are not sad, sbt
hi green!
Well Naomi is hot, that's already been established.
However, she is Juden, tho she did have a come-to-Jesus experience.
Anyway, since she's Jewish, is she "suspect" and a traitor to America like fellow Jew Noam Chomski?
god is big
Because you see, Noam, probably the harshest and best critic of the US government in recent years, does NOT believe that 9/11 was an inside job by "The Jews", Zionists, and the neocons.
And if you don't think 9/11 was an "inside job", then you're actually a traitor to America. And, you're brainwashed.
oh green, thank you for elaborating. now i understand and now i will go read for a bit before sleeping.
sweet dreams when you get there,
and thank goodness and thank god that the inauguration date is in january and not march.
although the aussies did it in 8 days from the election.
although the aussies did it in 8 days from the election.
jenniloon hussein | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 2:01 am | #
Would that we had a parliamentary system here.
And something else I might add. I am surprised at myself for not noticing something; how totally far right the entire country has moved in terms of what is accpetable for Civil Liberties.
-UC
/sigh
No surprise to anyone paying attention.
and folks here are responding to busboy, the perv?
What is WRONG with you?
Glad I go to Lowe's. Or Sears.
QuakerDave-Hussein | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 6:13 pm | #
the FIRST place I go to is the local Habitat for Humanity surplus store.
the NEXT place i go to is our locally owned hardware/building products store.
the LAST place I got to corporate owned HD, Lowes, or Sears.
See how it works? It's really pretty simple.
You'd attribute the folks who pulled off the aftermath of the Iraq War, Katrina and the economy with a plan of such magnitude? Personally I think they have trouble tying their shoes.
Nosybear Downhill Demon | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:11 pm | #
Completely wrong my friend. Those things turned out EXACTLY as they wanted them to.
EXACTLY!
I regard the freedom of sexual expression as a sacred right.
SadButTrue | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 11:03 pm | #
It is very unhealthy to separate ourselves from our sexuality. All kinds of bad repercussions.
I found an interesting article yesterday. For anyone who's interested.
http://www.dailytech.com/ Tempera...rticle10866.htm
It doesn't surprise me though.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:21 pm | #
That's because you a global warming denier idiot.
that story has been so thoroughly debunked by REAL climatologists, it's not even funny.
One year's temp data is WEATHER.
A hundred years weather data is CLIMATE CHANGE.
Get it?
Whew what a thread, I'll have the rest of the night to read/watch all of the links.
I am inspired by your passion, logic and creativity.
A toast from overseas, in the land of happy postal workers and a Prime Minister with a 70+% approval rating (we are easily amused?).
Is it somebody's birthday soon, or have I missed it? UC?
Gotta go flip the chook.
Hugs to you unrulies...
Aunty. have missed your wit. Where have you been?
Greetings, Aunty!!
I have been tending the family, new job (9 months now) and reading.
I have saved sad but True's post of today, with the inks. I miss being able to link with youse folks as often as I would like.
Someday, my children's children, or, if they decide not to be parents, the foundlings i may find, will ask, "why is Aunty so, well, like that?"
I will pull out my vat of papers, and to all who will, show.
Hugs
I will pull out my vat of papers, and to all who will, show.
Hugs Aunty Ism | 03.03.08 - 3:46 am | #
Aunty, we're going thru the same thing. We refuse to lose a generation! We will do whatever we have to do with whatever strength the "Giftie ha gie us". There are adults in this world; and there are grandparents. Don't ever let anyone confuse the two...
Busboy,
we all are doing what we can to keep the tapestry a'weavin'.
The fringes are often the most interesting places...
places of new patterns emerging, creative juices flowing, ideas materialising...
Aunty Ism | 03.03.08 - 4:43 am | #
You can tell me what that means someday
Let's not forget the use of a good carpet beating once in a while to keep the wee beasties on the move.
We may not be able to get rid of them permanently, but we can keep them disheveled, insecure, and gasping for life!
It's OK, busboy, you'll get it someday.
Tell ya what...
I was on my last hope for humanity today. I deal with the most human of isms...existances...
lost and found, me-isms, fix me, clean up , etc.
the blood in my veins flows thanks to you poets, writers, painters, musicians, bloggers, dancers, thinkers, cooks, chefs, plumbers, engineers, dreamers and lovers...
Well, if we had a Habitat store here, I'd go there. If we had an indie hardware store, I'd go there.
But we don't.
DIG that she doesn't have to desexualize her appearance in order to make a convincing argument. I really do.
Jump to the Hussein Left | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:59 pm | #
Could she if she tried???
If 9/11 was an inside job, I doubt that simpleton Bush and his band of merry goons would have known anything about it.
They would have been among the used.
Because you see, Noam, probably the harshest and best critic of the US government in recent years, does NOT believe that 9/11 was an inside job by "The Jews", Zionists, and the neocons.
And if you don't think 9/11 was an "inside job", then you're actually a traitor to America. And, you're brainwashed.
Green Libertarian | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 1:56 am | #
I see you're stomping your little boots and tossing your pretty curls again, Darling.
G'night Ellie and QDave.
Active dreams.
Jump to the Hussein Left | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 10:24 pm | #
good lord, Jump, be careful when you wish me "active dreams". I was taking the bus home, but there was all this construction work going on, so I convinced the driver to take a detour so he could drop me off right in front of my house. All these people were SMOKING on the bus, and I kept screaming, "There's no smoking on the bus!" Well, the detour took us to Indiana, and a fat lady got sick and puked and then we were carreening down the Pacific Coast Highway and nearly plunged to our deaths and finally we reached a point where I said, "let me off, I can walk from here" and the driver let me off in front of plant nursery, where I stopped and gave the workers a lecture on pesticides and then I walked up the hill and was home.
Whew! I was exhausted when I woke up!
Whoa, I had exactly the same dream last night...
She's a dream writer, I tell ya.
Ellie, dite La Magnifica!
And speaking of adults, seen this?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/gre...rats/
index.html
Glenn Greenwald, House Leadership, not only complicit, but also self-destructive
{Whoa, I had exactly the same dream last night..}
Wow, man that's FREAKY! .
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8433181
front page news in utah this morning
dear god, please save me from my neighbors
and sometimes i really dislike the concept of balance.
I'm at work. Left my house at 6am. /sigh I don't like waking up in the dark to go to work.
What is the outrage of the day, and has it already happened or is it in our collective future?
Good morning, Peeps.
Ellie,
No matter where you are, no matter what is going on, I always envision you giving those around you a lesson on something or other that will do people good, either by providing excellent information or by modeling excellent behavior.
It seems to be how you live.
H(J)Dave,
Happy Monday.
Yo, JUMP!
H(J) = D(J) for all Jungles in the Domain of Discourse
He's ready to eat a mango! Obama in the surf:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/we.../Obama-
Surf.jpg
He's a cryptoterrorist who swings from trees. See?
Of course nothing could be jollier fun than calling each other Nazis, Neonazis, bigots, etc. Or could there?
Here is a fun read, a critique of a Jonas Goldberg book, with comments that follow in quite a different style:
http://
commentisfree.guardian.co...hole_foods.html
Warning! Contains inflammatory language (liberal, conservative, Nazi, socialism, National Socialism, and putz)
good grief, Jenn, what a gross story about that teacher who showed Al Gore's film without teaching "the other side". May these people be the first to drown in the melted ice cap water.
Then again, I'm still bitter that no one taught me the other side of 2 plus 2 equals 4 or the other way to spell c-a-t.
The slaughter continues.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/
pa...in_page_id=1811
Oh, and Jump, thanks for the kind words. I think the guy in the newspaper article that Jenn posted would not like me to be a role model for his children! They might learn how to love their neighbor!
'gulag got a gravatar! congratulations.
And the headline in one of the local rags here reads, "Palestine Withdraws from Peace Talks". Well, hell yeah-- after this bloody weekend can anybody believe that Israel is serious about peace???
Nice gravatar, Gulag.
Okay, so I'm thinking about that article Jenn posted about the teacher showing Al Gore's movie, and her comment about disliking the concept of balance, and then I'm connecting it to SBT's topic of this thread and discussions we had last night.
I think the whole purpose of brining this notion that EVERYTHING has to be "fair" and "balanced" is just one more way in which the country was duped into moving to the right. Some things are not meant to fair. Nor balanced. They just ARE. Such as the climate change crisis and man's contribution to it. But people now BELIEVE that there must be "another side" to everything and so the ideologiy slow creeps in under the name of "fair and balanced".
I'm not expressing this very clearly. Maybe the rest of you can add to it or challenge it, to help me get to exactly what I'm trying to say.
As my mother used to say, "Fair? You want fair? You have to wait until it comes to town in August."
I remember the scam with unleaded gas. It hit the market being more expensive than leaded as though it was refined even more. What consumers failed to realize is that lead was being ADDED previoulsy. Unleaded eliminated a process and profitted as though it were working harder.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:32 pm | #
Unleaded gas cost more because it had to be reformulated in order to provide the same functionality at a cheap price that the killer lead had previously provided.
WTF has happened to this place?
Lead in gasoline was good.
Hugo and Fidel are THE most perfect leaders EVER.
Global warming is a myth.
GWB is just a dumb good old boy.
So much ignorance, so little time...
I haven't read the previous 346 comments so I'll just add this to the end:
HBO Will Air “Taxi To The Dark Side” After Discovery Channel Gets Cold Feet
_|¯|_
A new president is not going to be able to redress the current makeup of the Supreme Court - who look like they will have a Republican/conservative majority for at least a couple of decades.
-SBT
Opinions vary but generally line up that the SCOTUS is 4 leaning liberal, 4 leaning conservative, and a swing vote.
The oldest members lean liberal, and it would follow that that they would be replaced by a Dem president with fellow liberals, thus maintaining basically the same makeup of the Court.
If the Repukes win in '08, they will have a chance to appoint at least 1, and probably 3 CONSERVATIVE Justices to replace the aging Liberal Justices, cementing a strong conservative SCOTUS for decades to come.
Having a bad day GL?
Apparently, your ability to assume is greater than your ability to read.
Lead in gasoline was good.
Hugo and Fidel are THE most perfect leaders EVER.
Global warming is a myth.
GWB is just a dumb good old boy.
I never said or implied any of those. Though you'd love for folks to think I did.
Here is a fun read, a critique of a Jonas Goldberg book, with comments that follow in quite a different style:
http:// commentisfree.guardian.co...hole_foods.html
Warning! Contains inflammatory language (liberal, conservative, Nazi, socialism, National Socialism, and putz)
Gregory Lyons | 03.03.08 - 1:04 pm | #
One commenter nails it:
For the benefit of the perpetually bewildered, undergraduate swill: the extreme left (communists) and the extreme right (fascists) are not at opposite ends of a linear band. Think of it as a horseshoe where the left end and the right end almost connect and are far closer to each other than they are to the middle. The communists and the fascists hated each other then as they do now not because they were opposites but because they were rivals. Their instincts were the same - a centralised, militarised state that controlled society from top to bottom. The communists sought to achieve it by paying lip service to the proletariat which they actually despised. The fascists sought to do it by paying lip service to the aristocracy they actually despised.
(Communist, in this sense, basically the Soviet style model.) Actual Marxism has not been tried as a means of social, economic, and political structure.
Here is a fun read, a critique of a Jonas Goldberg book, with comments that follow in quite a different style:
http:// commentisfree.guardian.co...hole_foods.html
Warning! Contains inflammatory language (liberal, conservative, Nazi, socialism, National Socialism, and putz)
Gregory Lyons | 03.03.08 - 1:04 pm | #
One commenter nails it:
For the benefit of the perpetually bewildered, undergraduate swill: the extreme left (communists) and the extreme right (fascists) are not at opposite ends of a linear band. Think of it as a horseshoe where the left end and the right end almost connect and are far closer to each other than they are to the middle. The communists and the fascists hated each other then as they do now not because they were opposites but because they were rivals. Their instincts were the same - a centralised, militarised state that controlled society from top to bottom. The communists sought to achieve it by paying lip service to the proletariat which they actually despised. The fascists sought to do it by paying lip service to the aristocracy they actually despised.
(Communist, in this sense, basically the Soviet style model.) Actual Marxism has not been tried as a means of social, economic, and political structure.
ellie-
thank you for connecting the blots.
jump! ellie was the BEST lunch companion for myself and my kids, after our overly stimulating capitol tour last week! she saw all the good things in my kids that i don't when i'm distracted by managing all of their behavior in public for 3.5 hours.
and evolution has as much science as gravity. so there. balance that.
it's the slogan of evil fox nuws.
I wish I could have spent more time with you and the kids, Jenn. Your son reminds me so much of my boys when they were his age---- inquisitive, aware of absolutely everything (although one would never have noticed, with all the leaping about!), and also opinionated.
When my oldest was his age, we were at the dinner table with the entire extended family, and he blurts out, "So, who is everybody backing in race for County Commissioner?".
That brought the house down, and he demanded to know just what was so funny!
I remember the scam with unleaded gas. It hit the market being more expensive than leaded as though it was refined even more. What consumers failed to realize is that lead was being ADDED previoulsy. Unleaded eliminated a process and profitted as though it were working harder.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:32 pm | #
The introduction of unleaded gas, fought tooth and nail by the oil companies and the auto industry, came about because of hard fought efforts of many environmental and public health organizations, who had documented the ill health affects of lead in gasoline. It was EASY and CHEAP to just add lead in order to boost octane and provide anti-valve knock functionality. It took MORE refining and DIFFERENT processes, all at GREATER expense to formulate unleaded gas.
say what you want about Chavez but anyone who can say, in front of the whole world, "The Devil was here, I can smell the sulfer" about bush, is OKAY in my book.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:43 pm | #
So you're criteria for for someone being OKAY in your book is the fierceness of the criticism of Bush? Pat Buchanon is pretty damn harsh on Bush.
Following some discussion about green issues and Climate Change, you post this:
I found an interesting article yesterday. For anyone who's interested.
http://www.dailytech.com/ Tempera...rticle10866.htm
It doesn't surprise me though.
Amerikagulag | 03.02.08 - 8:21 pm | #
The "article", which has been touted on numerous right wing websites, purports to establish that the world is getting cooler, not warmer, on the basis of ONE YEAR'S weather data. It re-references an "article" they published awhile ago which was actually based on an anti-Global Warming EDITORIAL in Investor's Business Daily, and the main scientific source in that EDITORIAL was duped in a phone interview by IBD, and said later the article was complete bunk.
You often source prisonplanet for articles, another demented global warming denier. You've posted their idiotic claptrap which says "The Creeping Fascism of Global Warming Hysteria
Man-made orthodoxy is a dogma of coercion, bias, and junk science"
This is an excellent example of the political spectrum horseshoe mentioned above, the extreme right and extreme left BOTH denigrate science and think global warming is just some fascist conspiracy theory. It'd be laughable, if it weren't so dangerous.
You implied Bush was too dumb to tie his own shoes, "that's why he wears loafers"
Iran's leader says that nobody likes Americans. Referring to the forces in Iraq, ""We believe that the forces which crossed oceans and thousands of kilometers to come to this region should leave this region and hand over the affairs to the peoples and government of this region," Ahmadinejad said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/
me...=rss_topstories
I can't say that I disagree with him.
On the issue of climate change, Ellie, as you know, it HAS been debated by SCIENTISTS for several decades now. That's what scientists DO, attempt to prove or disprove their theories.
Except for a very few Climatologists, there is near universal agreement that Global Warming is happening, and much of it is due to man-made activities.
Doesn't stop the crackpots from claiming otherwise, however.
As to Al Gore's movie, I do believe there were some overstatements or mis-statements in it, and which he has corrected. Perfectly fine to point that out.
"We may be contributing 1 percent to global warming. It's largely due to solar activity, and there's not a thing we can do about it," Colley said. "The polar caps on Mars are melting, and there's not an SUV or smokestack in sight."
That is straight out of the totally discredited Investor's Business Daily EDITORIAL I mentioned earlier. There are three of four nominally qualified solar radiation experts that claim Global Warming is related to increased solar activity. There are hundreds more qualified solar radiation experts who disagree.
When the scientific community is at near universal consensus, then what other "side" can there be?
I think all the back and forth and back forth, debating for decades over this has contributed to putting us in this perilous situation---- precious time was wasted on pacifying corporate interest scientists whose job is to deny, deny, deny.
Jenn, if you're still around, it is a lovely 70 degrees here today, with lots of SUN. I have a really bad case of spring fever and am finding it difficult to stay put here in my office!
WTF has happened to this place?
Green Libertarian | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 1:56 pm | #
***
If people are going to start referencing Jonah Goldberg's crap for any other reason than serious ridicule, than I'd say we have a real problem here...
Shall we start a new thread?
Anyone?
Oh, let's, QD!
Guess not...
WTF has happened to this place?
Green Libertarian | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 1:56 pm | #
***
If people are going to start referencing Jonah Goldberg's crap for any other reason than serious ridicule, than I'd say we have a real problem here...
Quaker-Hussein-Dave | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 4:36 pm | #
The review posted was quite critical of Goldberg's book.
However, I just now got your meaning QD.
Agreed.
[The review posted was quite critical of Goldberg's book.]
Thanks for clearing that up, Green Lib. I thought I had gone truly crazy and totally misread the post. Whew! Dodged another one! LOL!
Sorry, I'm at work. Don't have a lot of time.
Green Libertarian I understand you now and I don't need your self-righteous shit. I've told you before I don't care whether you like me or what I post. If you don't like it, skip over it.
But just so the record is CLEAR: I never said lead in gas was good, I never said global warming is a myth, I never said bush is just dumb nor Chavez is wonderful, and you're not really worth the time discussing this with.
What I HAVE said in the past is plainly visible (for those interested). Obviously you're not. So on that we're even.
Now take your little baseball bat and go try to bully someone else. Okay?
The review posted was quite critical of Goldberg's book.
Green Libertarian | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 5:01 pm | #
I know.
I just don't think it's worth our time to discuss a pile of dog shit.
'ΩγΩ' | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 2:07 pm | #
Thank you for that link.
Fab grav!
Dave of the Jungle | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 12:07 pm | #
Sometimes you really crack me up.
That would be most of the time.
Very clever. So you've gone from typographical to cryptoterrorist.
I'll never tell!
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