As a Gay Republican, I know that GayPatriot definitely doesn't speak for many and probably most Gay Republicans. This is a typical reaction from a bully. They cry loudest when the tables are turned and they get the same treatment they give others.
His posting about Aravosis and Rogers as terrorists was totally uncalled for and incorrect. I don't know legal limits of libel and slander, but it sounds close.
1. From what I have read, neither committed any crimes.
2. They have only outed gays who are in a positiion to impact public policy or have become public figures by their actions and are hypocritical in working to make gays second class citizens and/or preventing gays from living a normal life while they continue to by 'gay' themselves. Public figures include names behind an alias - such as Jeff Gannon. You can't hide behind a public alias.
3. Their outing has no bearing on the political beliefs of the person. I don't know about Rogers, but I am familiar with Aravosis and he is Extremely Pro-American and against many of the legally anti-American ideals of the current administration (such as the trashing of the Constitution in the Schiavo Bill).
4. They have not been found to have violated anyone's privacy. Obviously, the outed people were considered public. Ken Mehlman himself said gay's were 'fair game' in the last campaign.
5. If they have attacked anyone's civil liberties, it hasn't been publicized.
6. To use "WANTED! Let's do something about these gay terrorists who have infected our community with their hatred and self-loathing bigotry" is a very inflamatory and threatening statement. And I think uncalled for in light of what they have done.
7. From what they have written, they have only outed gay American who wished to live their lives in peace while at the same time working very hard to prevent any other gay Americans from doing the same thing.
It was GayPatriot's decision to go dark. If his statements were accurate and legal, he should have no problem continuing to blog. Steve Talbert | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:41 am | #
In case my comments were misunderstood. I don't know enough about what Rogers did or said to have a comment about it. I think GayPatriot's comments about Aravosis were totally uncalled for and off base unless he also did something wrong. From Christian's description, Aravosis wasn't involved, and Roger's actions may or may not have been appropriate. Steve Talbert | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:53 am | #
Rogers and Aravosis play off the fact that most gays' thirst for vengeance against people they see as being their "oppressors" outweighs their common sense. Put simply, you haven't been asking the hard questions, Steve, because your selfish desire to see other people "get theirs" means more than asking how it's done. That hate is being exploited to coerce you into protecting antigay Democrats and justifying workplace attacks on people like GP who disagree.
Furthermore, to be harsher, I think anyone who has appeared in GQ and Genre, WITH PICTURES OF THEMSELVES, and shamelessly promotes the fact on their sites has crossed well over into the "public figure" range and no longer has any, "he violated my safety by printing my picture" room to argue. If anything, Rogers's actions in calling GP's workplace and threatening him show who the bully is and who's "crying the loudest when the tables are turned".
GP's post was over the top, and I told him as much. However, your defense of Rogers and Aravosis in this instance is based on incorrect assumptions. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 12:04 pm | #
Mark Foley flouts his gayness in Washington. Its not even a secret - and he consistently votes against equality for gay Americans when no one is looking. Skyler | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 12:18 pm | #
Thank you, Skyler, for proving just how twisted Democrats are when they can say that someone who voted against the FMA and MPA AND has an HRC score of 88/100 is "voting against equality" -- especially when the same Democrats are protecting people who voted FOR the FMA and MPA AND support state constitutional amendments stripping gays of their rights and legalizing discrimination, saying that these individuals are for "full inclusion" and "equality". North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 12:31 pm | #
Calling GP's employer was poor behavior. It's obvious that GP meant "terrorist" in the metaphorical sense of the word, much as someone uses the word "tyrant" when referring to a demanding boss. OTOH, Rogers hasn't yet taken legal action, so saying that GP has been "silenced" is rhetoric. He chose to shut down. The Zero Boss | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 12:49 pm | #
There is NO SUCH THING as terrorist in the methaphorical sense!!
Fox news referes to certain environmentalists as "eco-terrorists."
Eventually these "methaphorical" claims will enter the public's consciousness and will be associated with real terrorism and the harsh laws specifically created for true (and only) terrorism. Mystery Man | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 1:48 pm | #
LOL....I tried to post a hyperlink to Christian's post on Americablog mentioning that Christian had explained the situation concerning GayPatriot; it was deleted in less than five minutes.
Looks like somebody's not ready to have spread all over the Internets what their confederate and co-conspirator is doing, and especially not on their own blog. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 1:48 pm | #
Try to ignore the source for a moment and reread what GayPatriot wrote. If those words had come from a religious organization or a Republican politican or even a straight blogger, we would all be up in arms. Would any gay American support Tom DeLay or Jimmy Swaggert if they issued a direct call to action against "gay terrorists"? No. The fact the the writer is gay doesn't change the fact that he is advocating action and possibly violence against people he doesn't agree with. But like most Republicans, he doesn't think there are consequences to be paid for his words. This time, there were. The tone of GayPatriot's post is no different from those who have advocated attacking gays at gay pride events in the past.
Furthermore, BlogActive isn't taking on "gay Americans who wish to live their lives in peace," it is taking on hypocritical gay Americans who are helping the Republican Party take away gay rights. It is exposing hypocrisy and lies, albeit in a very confrontational and public way.
The real question is, why doesn't the gay community take strong (and even legal) action like this against others who openly encourage violence against our community? If a private citizen singled me out, called me a terrorist and encouraged others to "do something" about me, I wouldn't hesitate to call the police, inform his/her employer and do whatever else it took to make the world realize that this person had threatened me.
This is not about a difference of opinion, because I value freedom of speech. But when it crosses the line, consequences must be paid. And if GayPatriot wasn't gay or a friend of Christian's, I can't imagine anyone supporting this kind of hate speech. WriterRob | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 1:53 pm | #
Zero
The ACLU didn't actually bring a lawsuit against the county of Los Angeles, either, but the Supervisors DID remove a tiny cross from the county seal because of lawsuit threats from the ACLU.
Just their "choice", eh?
I'm only sorry GayPatriot didn't use the correct term for Rogers, et al
jihadists
Since this is dealing with a cultist belief of identity politics, and when one is an apostate (like any gay not adhereing to the Left Cult) one engenders a degree of hate not even leveled at the mere kaffir. Darleen | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 1:54 pm | #
TO: GayPatriot
RE: The Path Less Travelled - Revised & Updated
Or as one admiral once said in the face of serious opposition...
WriterRob, if a "religious organization" or a "Republican" or a "straight blogger" were speaking out against people who were committing crimes against the gay community, conducting outings against gays who didn't agree with the persons involved, violating the privacy of gay Americans, and attacking the civil liberties of gay Americans, I would be cheering for them. The fact that said persons are gay should not insulate them from criticism.
Furthermore, as I responded above to Steve Talbert, the outing campaign has nothing to do with taking on hypocrites, not when Rogers and Aravosis are admitting to protecting closeted antigay Democrats and their staffers who voted for and supported the FMA, MPA, and state constitutional amendments stripping gays of rights and legalizing discrimination against them, while attacking Republicans who voted against the MPA and FMA and have a better HRC score than most Democrats.
Aravosis and Rogers have gotten very good at playing on the selfish and immature hate of gays like yourself, WriterRob. They count on your blind spot making you equivocate for protecting antigay Democrats. They know that your vicious loathing of conservatives will make you buy the argument that posting Rogers's pictures somehow compromised his "safety", after Rogers had posed for a Genre shoot. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 2:16 pm | #
GP, I'm sorry these people are being such bastards. Outing anyone is not acceptable. People have the right to live as gay Republicans, and the right NOT to make their sexuality a big issue. I hate to see this type of behavior. It reminds me of being in a Catholic high school where girls would out one another for not being virgins or for failing grades or whatever. It's nobody's business. Live and let live. Becky | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 2:23 pm | #
WriterRob
Um... when someone, frustrated, says "can't we DO something?" it is not an automatic call to violence..
I always thought GP was a joke or fraud. I mean, he blamed DEMOCRATS for causing homophobia and never criticized the Bush administration on that issue. If he is real, he's positively deranged.
And, yeah, his post was pretty much a literal hit piece.
I think Haloscan's having some weird problems today for some of us with trackbacks, TPC. I've tried to track to the post myself and can't do it. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 2:49 pm | #
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it looks like all GayPatriot did was serve Rogers some of his own medicine. And Rogers, being a typical hypocrite, can dish it out, but not take it. He outs gays, GayPatriot outs bigots. Rogers ought to be investigated for stalking, and GayPatriot ought to start posting again. Ben Skott | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 3:02 pm | #
GayPatriot uses the most inflammatory term of our times - "Terrorists" - to target gays he disagrees with. Despicable.
Good riddance. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Big Gay Al | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 3:40 pm | #
Well, if this story is true, Rogers certainly doesn't come off well. But I don't really understand how anything he did would force him to quit blogging. Rogers isn't that well known, and I'm not sure how a boycott started by him would threaten GP's employer. Nathan | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 3:43 pm | #
The outing of gay Republicans is part of the Democratic practice of referring to black conservatives as Uncle Toms. The aim is to reduce political debate and diversity within certain groups with the insistance that there is only one proper political position for gays, or blacks, or Hispanics, etc. to hold. The usual punishment for members of these groups who escape the Democratic plantation is the ad hominem attack, which is often quite vicious and goes beyond mere political differences. With gays who don't toe the party line, there is the additional weapon of outing.
One can be gay and be against gay marriage - I am old enough to remember when this view was not controversial. Now, this doesn't seem possible because of threats from self-appointed enforcers of gay authenticity. "Terrorist" is too harsh a label for these people, especially when we're at war with real terrorists. But blackmail is a crime. Calling them gay fascists or mafiosi wouldn't be far off the mark.
A minor point: eco-terrorism isn't a metaphor; eco-terrorists use violence to promote political causes, which makes them terrorists. Brian O'Connell | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 3:51 pm | #
NDF:
Funny, he doesn't mention Bush or homophobia in that post.
As I said, boo hoo. Welcome to the reality of at-will employment. Disgrace your employer, and chickens come home to roost. Geek, Esq. | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 4:38 pm | #
Rogers proved GayPatriot's complaint, didn't he? By his vicious threats of intimidation and destruction? That IS terrorism. Peggy | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 4:39 pm | #
each side is acusing the other of the ability to 'dish it out', but 'not take it'. well, I see two sides doing plenty of 'dishing'. but I only see one side 'not taking it'. Jim Randell | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 4:44 pm | #
Funny, he doesn't mention Bush or homophobia in that post.
As I said, boo hoo. Welcome to the reality of at-will employment. Disgrace your employer, and chickens come home to roost.
I'm sure you would be as sanguine, Geek Esq., were your boss, yourself, and your secretary to be called repeatedly concerning your blogging activities and the pleasant names you call people and threatened with calling out the FBI and a national boycott unless you took down your blog.
Fortunately, you are among people who respect your right to speak and your right to keep your identity private for whatever reason -- or in short, people who won't treat you like you would them. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 5:04 pm | #
NDT - if I got your name and picture and put it on billboards opposite your home and your work with the words "This person is a terrorist -- Let's do something about it" on it, I'm assuming you wouldn't mind? And I'm sure it wouldn't affect your life at all, right?
Just because I disagree with you doesn't make it right to do something like that, but that's exactly what GayPatriot did - labeled people as "terrorists" for having a different point of view and said "let's do something" about it. And in this country, what do we do about terrorists? Hunt them down, torture them, kill them, etc.
I'm not saying the BlogActive people are 100 percent right (I don't think they are), but what GP did was clearly wrong. There are times when people cross the line separating freedom of speech and hate speech, and they must pay the consequences.
If the CEO of a company made a comment like this, or called a group of his employees "terrorists" or anything similar, don't you think there would be a call for a boycott and calls to the company demanding he be fired? What this shows is that the blogging world isn't isolated. WriterRob | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 5:29 pm | #
1. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
2. The blogger of this site, apparently failed to mention that, aha, he is the registrant, tech person, and admin for gaypatriot.org. At the very least, you would expect full disclosure. Mike Rogers | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 5:43 pm | #
Mike Rogers: This is from the post you are commenting on: "According to GayPatriot, who is also a client of mine...."
Aha. Are you as careful when you out gays who hold different politcal views than you? Brian O'Connell | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 5:56 pm | #
You know, WriterRob, your double standard is almost amusing in this situation.
NDT - if I got your name and picture and put it on billboards opposite your home and your work with the words "This person is a terrorist -- Let's do something about it" on it, I'm assuming you wouldn't mind? And I'm sure it wouldn't affect your life at all, right?
So that would justify me calling your workplace, harassing you, your boss, and your secretary, and threatening to sicc the FBI on you and start a national boycott of your products -- all to get you fired and the billboards taken down?
Oh, do go ahead and say it, WriterRob -- and then, to show your good faith in the matter, since you obviously think it's OK, publish your real name and email so that we can test the theory.
Furthermore, here's the kind of thing Rogers likes to print about people -- which obviously doesn't qualify as "hate speech" in your book.
Of course, I can hear you already -- "they're public figures, it doesn't matter". Unfortunately, when you brag about your being featured, with pictures, in a newspaper and in a national magazine, you pretty much qualify as a "public figure" yourself.
What it all boils down to is this, WriterRob -- you want to legitimize what Mike Rogers did in retaliation for having done to him what Mike Rogers has done to everyone else, and in spades. Furthermore, the key difference between GayPatriot and Mike Rogers is that GayPatriot TOOK DOWN HIS POST AND SPECIFICALLY RENOUNCED HURTING OTHER PEOPLE. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 5:57 pm | #
From Mike Rogers:
2. The blogger of this site, apparently failed to mention that, aha, he is the registrant, tech person, and admin for gaypatriot.org.
Incidentally, WriterRob, I will NOT be testing the aforementioned theory of calling your workplace and harassing people, and I strongly discourage anyone else from doing the same, at the penalty of "your ass is grass if I catch you doing it".
The point is simply this.....don't justify being done to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 6:24 pm | #
They have only outed gays who are...
Jewish looking?
Black?
Women?
Not politically aligned with them?
The excuses by some here as to the acceptable groups of gays to 'out' is deplorable. Simply put, you have no right, even if they are raving hypocrits. Defense Guy | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 6:28 pm | #
By that same logic, Tom DeLay's personal position to pull the plug on his own father should not be considered when looking at his position on Terri Schiavo. Wrong. It shows hypocrisy in action. And for the Republican Party -- which celebrates in digging into people's pasts for whatever reason they want -- to object to one of their own politicians being subjected to the same rules is laughable.
And NDT, if I were to post slanderous billboards of you, of course you would have every right to do everything in your power to get me fired, boycott my company, file lawsuits, etc. People do shit like that all the time. The difference is that I wouldn't put the billboard up in the first place, but GayPatriot did the same thing by posting his offensive column. He can take it down, but it doesn't change what he did. WriterRob | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 6:45 pm | #
It would seem to me that it’s only fair to expect that the blogger would have clearly, in this post, disclosed that he serves as the technical, administrative and registration contacts for GayPatriot.org.
Christian is a good guy. I’ve known him for a long time. I'm sure he did not mean to get caught up in the lies and misinformation about Patriot's OWN decision to stop blogging. Patriot was not blackmailed or threatened and in no way was he ever told to stop blogging by me.
I'm happy he is in touch with his lawyers (apparently, he has more luck reaching his lawyers than I do) I am sure once his counsel is given the transcript to the phone calls (i have every word carefully written down) there will be no doubt as to what really happened.
Like most of Patriot's crap...it's thrown from behind the anonymous curtain of his site.
But "out" him? Impossible. GayPatriot, also known as Bruce Carroll, has been out for at least as long as he blamed liberals for the Federal Marriage Amendment votes and all the state by state hate against gays,
I believe ALL people who would deserve to be outed because of their hypocrisy in working with public policy should be outed. Let their constituents decide if they want them to continue to represent them, or by employed by people who represent them. Protecting someone who might be "helping from the inside" is not helping, but further perpetuating the situation. Anyone conducting public policy on that topic should be held accountable. Being gay is not bad. Saying it is, or trying to prevent others from doing it and then doing it on the side is.
I don't know exactly what was said in Roger's call, so I can't say if it was appropriate to the employer or not. He might have just said the guy called him a terrorist and referred him to the site, at which point GayPatriot outed himself. Even though this seems grey, it really is black and white as to when it's appropriate or not.
The grey part comes in when you have a closeted person who is in effect 'working in the resistence' if that's why Aravosis was saying. In that case I think that isn't very honorable and I would out them for consistency and fairness. You live by the sword you die by the sword, that's the risk. Steve Talbert | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:08 pm | #
I would be surprised if Rogers was unset someone published his picture. He has worked hard to get it in as many faces as he has so far. What was upsetting might have been the context of a physical threat. I didn't see any pic on the GayPatriot site. I rarely go to that site to know if it's changed. Steve Talbert | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:12 pm | #
Ah yes, Mike....when confronted with evidence of your own stupidity, the goalposts move, so that now, instead of your assertion that Christian never disclosed the information you requested, he now had to do it within the post -- unfortunately, where he had already made clear that GP was his client.
And I'm glad to see you admit that GayPatriot was not closeted....since that neatly blows away your apologists Steve Talbert's and WriterRob's argument that what you did was justified on the basis of GP being closeted. Now, it simply becomes a matter of you making harassing phone calls -- something which, as Chris Crain pointed out, you have a history of doing. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:21 pm | #
By that same logic, Tom DeLay's personal position to pull the plug on his own father should not be considered when looking at his position on Terri Schiavo. Wrong. It shows hypocrisy in action.
Only if both situations are identical, WriterRob, and it appears that they quite clearly were not.
And for the Republican Party -- which celebrates in digging into people's pasts for whatever reason they want -- to object to one of their own politicians being subjected to the same rules is laughable.
Unfortunately, WriterRob, you and yours called those "rules" wrong, morally reprehensible, and indicative of putting hatred and partisanship ahead of anything else. What does that make people like you who now advocate using them? Furthermore, WriterRob, you argued that, if you were to mount a smear campaign against me, I would be well within my rights to object and retaliate -- but you call it "laughable" in other situations. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:28 pm | #
Um, I never said any actions were based on GP being closeted. You're turning into RepublicanTom. And you clearly missed my point -- if Republicans want to play by a certain set of rules, they've got to expect to have those ruled turned on themselves. Whether those rules are right or not is another matter. But if Republicans want to dig into people's lives and use it as ammunition, then that's the level the country has been dragged to. It's the "they can dish it out, but they can't take it" argument. Republicans expect that they can play dirty, but they call foul when anyone else plays dirty right along with them. If it's wrong when liberals use dirty tricks, then it's wrong when conservatives use them. Problem is, conservatives use virtually nothing besides dirty tricks, so the opposition has to resort to the same.
Anyway, no matter what was done, the fact remains that GayPatriot's posting was wrong and reprehensible. To use the "well, he called me a name first" defense is crap and childish. WriterRob | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:36 pm | #
It would seem to me that it’s only fair to expect that the blogger would have clearly, in this post, disclosed that he serves as the technical, administrative and registration contacts for GayPatriot.org.
This is stupid. If someone hands me $8.95 a year, or less, I could be their site registrant. Those are just online forms that need to be filled out when a domain name is registered. Christian's admission that GayPatriot is a client actually implies more.
But this is plainly an attempt to smear the author of this post with some ridiculous and off-topic nondisclosure charges, which have nothing at all to do with the issue at hand. And the "I'm sure he did not mean to get caught up in the lies and misinformation" is just slimy insinuation. Will you attempt to slime anyone who defends GayPatriot?
If you have relevent information, transcripts, then publish them. There's no point in this coy I know what's going on and you don't defense. Did you threaten GayPatriot's employer or not? Did those threats make it into your notes? Brian O\'Connell | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:43 pm | #
Outrageous. Michael Rogers just called me claiming the police are having him do background checks and needed to ask me questions. As naive as that sounded, I entertained the questions until it was clear his concerns were better directed to GayPatriot. When I told him to just have the Police contact me directly about all this, he went ballistic. That's when I knew for a fact these weren't concerns the police or any attorney had. These were concerns of Michael Rogers, and he was talking to the wrong person on so many levels.
But I let him talk until he hung up on me. I'm that kinda guy. I don't watch much television.
Rogers then claimed he couldn't get in touch with GayPatriot... the same Michael Rogers who spoke to GayPatriot's personal secretary and boss on the telephone on Friday? Give me a break! The fact that he isn't calling them anymore should tell you Michael read the part of my post about GayPatriot consulting an attorney. If Rogers knows what's good for him, he'd do the same and cease and desist from complicating his life with these ill-advised phone calls.
Rogers then threatened to hold me responsible if I didn't take down GayPatriot's website. I've seen this performance a million times. It's a desperate one man show called "I ain't got a lawyer or a leg to stand on: PART 24," complete with hysterics. The ending is always the same, but i won't ruin it for you here!
If this wasn't so sad, it would be completely laughable. If the police are as concerned as Michael Rogers, I'd much rather speak with them, but my phone hasn't received a single call from then at all. Take that as foreshadowing plot, boys and girls, because depositions are a real bitch. Luckily, Michael Rogers told me he was recording the entire conversation!
Needless to say, after Michael Rogers rambled on about the mysterious trouble I would be in and how terribly upset he was with my post, I asked Michael Rogers to put his concerns in a letter and send it to my home address, which I was happy to provide him. Predictably, that sent him through the friggin roof!
Rogers claimed I was going to have trouble with the police, and I again assured him that I wouldn't have any trouble speaking to the police when they cared enough to call me. He made more breathless demands of me, all of which I again asked him to channel into a nice concise letter and send it to my home address. I even encouraged him to have his attorney do it for him. Nothing says I'm really serious like an attorney.
CLICK - he hung up.
More foreshadowing. God I can't keep a secret to save my life! Christian Grantham | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 7:43 pm | #
Rogers then threatened to hold me responsible if I didn't take down GayPatriot's website.
Outrageous indeed. So it's not just a potentially threating post that Rogers is interested in taking down (which has already been removed), it's GayPatriot's whole site. This shows who Rogers really is. He should be condemned by the whole gay community and the whole blogosphere. The response to speech we disagree with is more speech. No one is helped by silencing voices.
I wouldn't have thought it likely to have an incident like Rogers' phone call to Christian Grantham as an example, but there it is. There is little difference between the tactics of outing gays whose opinions you might think are anti-gay and the bizzare threats in that phone call. They're of a piece, equally reprehensible. Brian O'Connell | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 8:06 pm | #
All I can say is I look forward to the transcripts and the full 12minutes and 23seconds of audio recording from that call from 5:21 p.m.ET today. Can we get a copy before it's subpoenaed, Michael? I hate to see it mysteriously deleted. Christian Grantham | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 8:16 pm | #
Fight back Patriot! I'm straight as an arrow, but that shouldn't matter. The gay terrorists must be smacked down. Tadfield | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 8:19 pm | #
Um, I never said any actions were based on GP being closeted. You're turning into RepublicanTom.
Fair point, WriterRob....that was Steve Talbert, not you, and I apologize for lumping you in with him.
Meanwhile, though, I think the rest of your post was nicely answered by Christian's response. I look forward to seeing how you manage to equivocate and defend Rogers's actions in that case.
Interestingly enough, I did comment to GP's original post that I thought it was rather over the top. However, when you started to justify Rogers's response, I thought it might be interesting to see just how far you would go in doing so. Let's see if your hatred for Republicans and conservatives is enough to justify calling Christian a liar. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 8:29 pm | #
Mike Rogers may not have any higher brain function, but he's still putting out plenty of bile--even without benefit of a feeding tube. Apparently the reptilian part of his brain is in control, accounting for both his venom and his cold-bloodedness. He is the uber Persistent Vegetable. DCRob | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 8:35 pm | #
Gaypatriot was very clearly WRONG to post the "Do something about the Terrorists" opinion piece on his website. Whatever Rogers has done, the term "terrorist" is not applicable in the current, very literal, world news sense. If he had said something about intimidation or other non-violent activities by these people which he disagrees with, nobody would be saying anything other than the normal impolitic give and take.
Not sure what the appropriate response to this would be. Contacting employers, while extreme, is not out of the realm of the reasonable, if I were the recipient of such a screed. It is not really the "terrorist" part of the comment which gets to me, it is the implied threat to do "something". When you have already called somone a terrorist, that something could be pretty extreme.
Now, as to the criticism of FOX news calling some activists "ecoterrorists" and saying this is another case of overstatement, I disagree heartily. The stories I have seen on Fox and other networks where that term is used refer to people doing things like burning down homes, defacing SUV's, and burning down business sites, like the Vail mountain lodge destroyed by, I say the word: "Ecoterrorists". These people are taking illegal, concrete action against property with the goal of punishing the owners and insurance companies economically. This is totally unlike the antics of Rogers, et al. j.pickens | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 9:03 pm | #
This is just another example on divided this country is. Now I certainly do not support the Republican party as a whole, I am at least educated enough on the issues to be able to seek out those Republicans that are supportive of how I live my life and educated enough to know the Democratic party here in Oklahoma has abandoned me for the ideolog of the Christian Right.I saw we dissolve the congress and start over....lol.
But seriously, I at least listen to all opinions regardless of what party or religion you mat belong to and I think we as a nation are so quick to judge others for opinions differing from that of our own. Now I don't condone Gay Patriot's action nor do I condone the phone calls made by Rogers, to steal a line from the great poet Rodney King, "can't we just all get along?" We have too many lining up against our community and too much at stake for our community to continue the pettiness and jealousy that so many of our community leaders and members show towards one another. Paul B. | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 9:26 pm | #
Geeeeze,
ND30 comes off as a big crybaby.
Perhaps the biggest crybaby of all time.
By the way ND, B u s h HATES you he told me to tell you when we were talking earlier. Jeebus Crapes | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 9:59 pm | #
Christian,
Well, having phone calls you agree are off the record only to twist the meaning into something completely differenet AFTER you were exposed as calling patriot a "client" when you were much more might explain why your site is pulling in just a few hundred visitors a day.
Take a look at blogACTIVe...report the truth... it tends to bring more repeat visitors.
Keep up the great site...it sure looks nice. Mike Rogers | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:14 pm | #
Mike, was Ed Schrock's phone call to a gay sex line off the record? Why don't you release the complete audio of our calls you claimed to have recorded? I think I know why. Christian Grantham | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:18 pm | #
"I'm straight as an arrow,"
We understand tadfield, you sure wouldn't want anyone to think you were a fag. Sheesh!
As for GayPatriot[sic], his labeling of Rogers and Aravosis as terrorists about whom something should be done fully warranted the reaction by Rogers.
I support the outing of those closeted homosexuals who are working to making gays and lesbians second class citizens in this country. They are nothing but latter-day Roy Cohns and their actions are a direct attack against me and millions of other gay men and lesbians. I won't sit back and take it. Ian S. | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:30 pm | #
I agree with Paul B. - this country is WAY too divided. At what point do we take the obviously right-wing GayPatriot and the just as painfully obvious left-wing Rogers and find a happy middle? Do we find a happy middle? Better yet, are we so cemented in our poralized belief structure that we've no longer even allowed the possibility for said middle?
"I have seen thy enemy" or something like that was the title of a recent posting on BlogActive, and "Gay Terrorist" was a recent post on GayPatriot - is there any possible way to get any more polarized than that! (people!!)....
I think right about now, middle/straight America is pretty disguested over what the religious-right did in Florida with Terri Schiavo, but they sure aren't falling in love with gay marriage. Is there anything to be gained by gays moving center (if there still is one left). Or, given the hardline, never compromise nature of some religious conservatives, is moving center merely moving the entire "Agenda" in favor of right-wingers?
I say to both Rogers and GayPatriot (or Bruce? It seems the Washington Blade flips flops DAILY when it comes to outing): "Cut it out" Gay marriage isn't the "hot" issue this day, this week, or maybe this year. Take a vacation, all of you!! Frank | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:31 pm | #
Christian,
Mr. Schrock's phone calls were very clearly ON the record. He placed those calls to a public phone services which reminds callers on MULTIPLE occasions that the messages on the line are completely public.
More important, your motives here are clear...we now know your true connection to Bruce Carroll, you defended Crain, you guest wrote for Gay Patriot (aka provided content) and you now want to protect Ed Schrock's right to make private once-public recordings at the same time you violate your own agreement to have a discussion off the record.
Thank goodness I learned how your blog works BEFORE I ever shared anything of real importance with you. close call. Mike Rogers | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:38 pm | #
"Do we find a happy middle?"
There is no happy middle when one side wants to enshrine bigotry against the other side in the Constitution. The struggle for equal rights for gay people is an asymetric one: gay people are not asking the homohaters to give up any of their fundamental rights. Gay people are not demanding that homohaters turn gay. Gay people are not demanding that homohating churches perform same-sex marriages. Middle road in this case is still second class citizenship for gays and lesbians. Ian S. | Email | Homepage | 03.28.05 - 11:56 pm | #
Not to get off the subject , but WriterRob wrote : “By that same logic, Tom DeLay's personal position to pull the plug on his own father should not be considered when looking at his position on Terri Schiavo. Wrong. It shows hypocrisy in action".
WriterRob,
You simple don’t have a sound grasp of the facts before you draw a sound conclusion. Delay’s father was a dying man whereas Terri Shaivo wasn’t . His father’s kidneys, lungs and heart were failing and he required a number of machines to keep him a live aside from the feeding and hydration tubes. RepublicanTom | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 12:05 am | #
Such a cat fight over nothing between Mike Rodgers and Gay Patriot. RepublicanTom | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 12:13 am | #
On delay and schiavo....
Different vegetable, same salad.
Tom Delay is a hypocrite and you want to slice and dice this salad so he was valiant for pulling the plug on his dad, and Schiavo is the devil? Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 12:37 am | #
I thought GayPatriot's post was appalling - and so did many who commented on it (what Christian posted of it in it's entirety was much worse than the pieces other blogs were posting). Gay Patriot had in the past posted Roger's home phone number on his site when it was still on blogger. That was also wrong. That being said, he clearly thought better of it and took the post down. At the same time, I think Mike Rogers behavior calling GayPatriot at work was also appalling. It's also stalking to call closeted staffers and their supervisors at work.
Did Ed Schrock record those personal ads to be "on the record", Mike? That's a nonsensical defense of your outing of him.
Also Mike - are you claiming that GP made threatening calls to you? If that's the case, you need more than a transcript for evidence, you need them taped. lloydletta | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 12:47 am | #
Mike Rogers wrote:
Christian,
Mr. Schrock's phone calls were very clearly ON the record. He placed those calls to a public phone services which reminds callers on MULTIPLE occasions that the messages on the line are completely public.
More important, your motives here are clear...we now know your true connection to Bruce Carroll, you defended Crain, you guest wrote for Gay Patriot (aka provided content) and you now want to protect Ed Schrock's right to make private once-public recordings at the same time you violate your own agreement to have a discussion off the record.
Thank goodness I learned how your blog works BEFORE I ever shared anything of real importance with you. close call.
EY: Mike, you are hardly the person to talk about on the record and off the record. What you are doing is opposition research - NOT journalism.
That's all old news - Christian fully disclosed that GayPatriot is his client.
I just hope that now, GP starts blogging again - but also, that he also learns from this - and thinks before he posts something really inflamatory that could look threatening. But I think his readers will take care of that. North Dallas Thirty - and other conservative readers told GP he was out of line with that post. lloydletta | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 12:54 am | #
"On delay and schiavo....
Different vegetable, same salad.
Tom Delay is a hypocrite and you want to slice and dice this salad so he was valiant for pulling the plug on his dad, and Schiavo is the devil?"
RIDICULOUS! Not even apples to spark-plugs. RepublicanTom | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 1:47 am | #
GayPatriot is Bruce Carroll? and The pic is so ew.
But I agreed with Ian S., we must not allowe the latter-day Roy Cohns to do the deed. Never again. Ian purely nailed on the subject.
I personally thought that Rogers was bit overboard on this subject but GP nevertheless deserved this -- considering the facts that he outflatly lied about a lot of things.
R- Me is the Ridor | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 3:58 am | #
This is so typical of NorthDallasThirty's logic. He is the one to first bring up outing pros and cons in this thread. Then he blames it on others. I am only commenting on each point GayPatriot stated in his post. If it was outing, then those are my comments. If it wasn't, those still are my comments. After reading through more detail from the thread, I support Roger's actions against a bullying threat.
On the other hand, I don't think GayPatriot should stop blogging. I don't find his rants particularly interesting, but we need as many voices out there to show all sides of the issues so people can read different viewpoints. Some people will agree and/or disagree with alot of stuff. It shouldn't be thuggery, though. Steve Talbert | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 5:50 am | #
I don't feel bad for gaypatriot at all. The use by conservatives -- gay or not -- of incendiary language like WANTED and TERRORIST is dangerous to both individuals and our culture.
WANTED implies "dead or alive," and since we have declared war on terrorism that is a second threat. I don't have any problem with a bully like gaypatriot getting slammed back.
Rogers gave gaypatriot a choice, as well. "Take down the post and put a new one up about non-violence, or I will tell the world who threatened me." That seems entirely reasonable to me.
You reap what you sow. I wish more people called them on this. Poppy McCool | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 6:44 am | #
Who's acting like Nazis now?
Rogers & Avarosis EMT907 | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 7:15 am | #
This whole "debate" is an example of why our country is so utterly and thoroughly buggered compared to Europe, Canada, even South America.
To the people on the right wing, ala Gay Patriot, who think this sort of hyperbolic "terrorist" rhetoric and defense of right wing ridiculousness is fantastic, I say: you have nothing to offer.
For those who defend the closet or say that outing is "malicious," especially the heterosexual right wingers, I say -- get with the 20th century. Being gay is no more "shocking" than being black or being female or being an immigrant. The idea that it's "private and personal" is nonsense too because your party has done everything possible to make the lives of gay and lesbian people -- from their marriages to their sex lives to their financial lives to their wills and contracts and inheritance -- a public debate.
Your party has, in the past eight years, passed laws against consensual gay sex, passed laws banning gay adoptions and gay partnership benefits and gay contracts between two people of the same sex and gay hospital visitation. You've demogogued on how "they" don't deserve equal rights. You've stood by people like the odious Rick Santorum, who uses his position as a US Senator to comment on the "private lives" of gay people.
Many of you are even violating the supposed "sanctity of marriage" you are supposedly "protecting" through anti-gay laws by getting the Congress and courts involved in the personal family decisions of Michael Schiavo and his legal right to do what's best for his wife.
Private life? Respect for privacy? You have none, and you never did. Your demands for "privacy" are selective. Your party thrives on "outing" people -- people from the Canadian reporter whose critical coverage of Iraq got White House officials "leaking" to Drudge that he's gay to B1 Bob Dornan outing people on the floor of Congress.
If anyone publishes the verifiable FACT that one of your number, pushing your odious agenda, is gay, that's not "a violation of privacy." No, you and YOUR agenda violate the privacy, rights and human dignity of every homosexual, every day, in the pursuit of political power.
And now to the left.
If Mike Rogers has acted as Christian has alleged, that's an egregious violation of basic ethics and might be illegal. It certainly does nothing to shore up the idea that Rogers might not be "fully outing people who are anti-gay" but rather doing so in a partisan fashion. Then again, the Republicans are also guilty of anti-gay demogoguery in a partisan fashion, so their sudden love of non-partisan outing and gay commentary is rather transparent.
In short, if you don't like this sort of political carping which goes for "dialogue," work to change it.
If you're a committed Republican, spend your energy working against the supposed "small government conservatives" who love Big Government getting into your private life and your bedroom and setting up one set of legal standards for gay people that make them second-class citizens and another set that make certain heterosexuals the beneficiaries of extensive government largesse. Then, you can say with a bit of pride, that you're standing up for gay equality and "privacy."
If you're a Democrat, don't hold back on the anti-gay Democrats like Stephanie Herseth who gladly sell gay people down the river in order to get an electoral victory, or hold back in slamming Democrats when necessary. (John Aravosis, contrary to the suggestions made by some Gay Patriot defenders, actually does this regularly.)
And if you're an independent, third party member or a Democrat/Republican who is sick of political dialogue consisting of the sort of hypocritical tripe that's dominated this entire debate so far, consider voting for a Libertarian, Green, or other third party candidate in local, state and federal elections, who won't pander on these important issues of gay equality because they actually have backbone and principles that say gay people should be treated equally by the government. Libertarian Gay American | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 7:35 am | #
Mike, I think your conclusion that harassing me on the phone over your problem with GayPatriot is a bad idea is probably a good conclusion.
I also think it was a great idea for you to record our conversations. When can we expect to hear them in their entirety? Are you afraid the tapes you made will portray you as accurately as I have? Christian Grantham | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 8:02 am | #
Prior to the GP flap, I was an avid GP reader while only periodically visiting your (Christian Grantham's) site. However, as of today, your site (Christian) is bookmarked for daily reading. Anytime someone can expose someone like Rogers and his ilk for what they really are, count me in! Keep up the excellent writings Christian but above all keep up good fight. And consider this "on the record". chiefd3 | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 9:24 am | #
I LOVE CHRISTIAN GRANTHAM (way more than I could ever heart the huckabees). Liberals love Grantham. Conservatives love Grantham. We all love Grantham!
Christian Grantham is perhaps the most accurate and fair blogger out there. He has a record of digging up a story without crossing into the salacious.
Christian has always disclosed that GayPatriot is a tech client. He has flaming liberals as clients as well. Capitalism is a wonderful thing (and thats coming from a Democrat!). Christian has never been afraid to criticize the poor logic of GayPatriot or Chris Crain --- ESPECIALLY Chris Crain. What Rock has Mike Rogers been living under in regards to this.
Christian is more of a Patriot (and probably more gay) than GayPatriot or Mike Rogers could ever be. John | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 9:30 am | #
Wow, so gaypatriot is really wimpy gay guy. I lean towards what republicans used to stand for (small government, personal responsibility, individual liberty) but have no problem with the outings of Mehlman and others who actively work to make my life a little bit worse than it might otherwise be by helping to elect homophobic theocratic christian-boot-licking power-hungry nonreality-embracing morons like GWB to office. jfbiii | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 9:50 am | #
Hmm.. very interesting. I recently went toe to toe over at Andy Towle's Towleroad, in the
comment section about Mr. Gannon. I was roundly booed just because I didn't see the "big deal" about Mr. Gannon being a conservative man of our community. I refuse to allow this undercurrent of "thought" that seems to be informing us, as a people that we are "a certain flavor" of the rainbow... read, Democrat, Christian, and or Liberal... that seems to be the calling card of many clean cut men of our community today.
I'm Independent as Hell. But I enjoy listening to what everyone has to say. I guess that makes me an evil homo. Well I've been called much worse and by much bigger "sources"... if you get my drift.
I wish we would be allowed by this nation to get angry... I wish we could stay that way forever. visibleh20 | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 10:25 am | #
Steve Talbert, I'm not really sure what you are saying. Is your diatribe against me due to what I actually said, or merely the fact that I demonstrated your ignorance of the fact that Aravosis and Rogers are outing on a partisan basis and protecting antigay Democrats?
Second, do you support Mike Rogers's actions in calling and harassing Christian?
Finally, LGA, your stereotypical hate of Republicans leads you to ridiculous equivocations. I have published FACT of Rogers and Aravosis themselves admitting that they are protecting the closeted staffers of antigay Democrats, with links, and you can't even bring yourself to admit it. North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 10:50 am | #
Christian,
GO!!!!
And Mikee, for what it's worth, Christian has disclosed on a couple of occasions that he is the tech and admin contact for GP's site - mostly because I had a few questions about it myself.
Mikeee's self destructing! Michael | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 11:11 am | #
People who "out" others are the farthest things from libertarians. They are people who think that they own the private facts of others.
It is basic tyranny and anyone with a conscience would condemn it. SPQR | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 4:32 pm | #
Christian must be desperate for attention -- to a point where he edited the haloscan's "url" -- forcing everyone to go back to Christian's blog. Even if you go to another blog, the url remains the same with Christian's blog address. I tried to correct it several times.
Another typical gay who needed so much attention that is willing to deny anyone's links to their blogsite but his own.
R- Me is the Ridor | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 10:04 pm | #
For me, the real problem with JohnA and MikeR and their websites isn't that they are gay terrorists using thug-like tactics to quash viable resistance to their one-voice rhetoric (like the smash and burn tactic of MikeR against GayPatriot), the real problem is that they appeal to so many gay Americans and partisans who willingly hoist comrades on a fagot of tinder and offer to light it. Outing practiced by these thugs is despicable. Legal harassment against critics –and that’s a big difference from constructive dialogue and commentary—is equally despicable.
For me, these men tap into a fetid underbelly of our gay community in order to mistakenly advance partisan interests. They harm all gays and gay activism in general by dividing us, culling out those who don’t pass the rabid litmus test, and wantonly demean critics with petty name calling, false indignation at criticism, and posses a self righteous monopoly on the truth which is shallow, ephemeral and misdirects the debate.
To call either man a gay activist is like Smart Growth environmentalists calling the arsonists who burn McD-mansions in the burbs environmental activists. Literally, MikeR and JohnA advance an agenda which harms our community’s long term interests. Responsible gay activists need to identify the cancer on our community these men and their writings –as well as the hardliners who feed at the trough of those blogs—represent. THEY are the threat, not GayPatriot, not Log Cabin GOPers, not gay leaders who seek meaningful dialogue and progressive public policy.
Kudos to RobertS and others for standing up to the MikeR and JohnA types in our community. I say: take time each day to read these two blogs and if they continue their course, take a moment and speak out. Matt-Michigan Matt-Michigan | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 10:11 pm | #
Just wanted to note yet another falsehood by ND30 -- he mentions that AMERICAblog wiped his posting of the link to this information within 5 mintues. ND30/Jeff has been banned from AB, for his constant lies, so I doubt that he could post there. In any event, I did post this link on AB YESTERDAY, and have been freely discussing in on several threads since yesterday morning, and NONE of the postings have been deleted.
ND30 is notoriuos on AB for misrepresenting information and facts...and has done so here as well.
// ImpeachBush | Email | Homepage | 03.29.05 - 11:00 pm | #
LOL....ask John Aravosis if he's ever deleted any of my posts before, ImpeachBush. The answer will surprise you.
You don't have to believe me....but I am not lying when I say that John deleted the post I made initially linking to Christian's website.
Furthermore, I'd like you to show us, with links, which posts were "misrepresenting". North Dallas Thirty | Email | Homepage | 03.30.05 - 11:05 am | #
Maybe I'm missing something. Doesn't the very act of RECORDing a conversation create a RECORD of it, thus putting it on the RECORD?
Why was Mike Rogers recording the conversation? To gather evidence? To protect himself from being misquoted? Either way, once that recording is produced later on to buttress something for any reason, then the very existence of the recording makes it "on the record". Otherwise, why record it? Why not just take notes?
Would any politician agree to speak "off the record" but allow the conversation to be recorded? Maybe some do, but I don't imagine the smart ones do. Not these days.
I'm a lib'ral who wouldn't mind seeing every flaming Roy-Cohn-clone outed, but I'm with Christian on this.
I am also disturbed that Mike Rogers actually accomplished something that I never thought possible: My sympathies lie with GayPatriot on this episode. But ONLY on this, nothing else. Jim Burroway | Email | Homepage | 03.30.05 - 11:58 am | #
Dude you read through eighty comments to say that! Apparently you find this more interesting then your willing to acknowledge-- but I do find your feigned superiority so very sexy-- grrrr. Bob Dob | Email | Homepage | 03.30.05 - 12:54 pm | #
I'm a 70-year-old heterosexual male with a blog and a paid web site:
GayPatriot is welcome to use any of my resources at any time. Period. In fact, I would be delighted to provide an anonymous blog or column space. Let me know.
Frank Laughter Frank Laughter | Email | Homepage | 03.30.05 - 6:05 pm | #
Well, I think that the sort of confrontational competitive communication demonstrated in this thread can only achieve limited results. Perhaps we can concentrate on what Mr. Rogers and Mr. Patriot have in common. (I refuse to use his real name because I can't remember it and I'm too lazy to scroll back up the page and look for it.)
They both are passionately devoted to making things better for the gay community.
They both have utilized an innovative but controversial approach to getting their message out.
They both are creative, tenacious, and dogged.
They both have a deep seated hatred for hypocrisy.
They both have let the above virtues and qualities trap them in a situation where they can't communicate effectively with each other beyond the phrase, "I hate you."
I was also going to use the Rodney King quote but someone else beat me to it.
As did the guy who commented on feigned superiority such as what I'm exhibiting here.
Seriously, is there a way to work together and use a communication strategy that is more effective?
I believe ALL people who would deserve to be outed because of their hypocrisy in working with public policy should be outed. Let their constituents decide if they want them to continue to represent them, or by employed by people who represent them. ... Anyone conducting public policy on that topic should be held accountable."
Rubbish, policy must be considered on its own merits, not the personal background of the person outlining it (unless you can PROVE they are criminals).
People conducting public policy should not be held accountable for their way of life (unless that way of life is clearly criminal), but for their policies, and how they carry them out.
'Outing' people is nothing more than a diversion from public policy that should be left to gossiping old women under hair dryers. Sheriff | Email | Homepage | 03.31.05 - 6:59 pm | #
I am not gay but I am appaled at this turn of events and sickened at the thought that this has happened.
I wish you the best... Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 03.31.05 - 10:49 pm | #
Sigh... Once again, the gay firing squad forms itself into a circle... Another Paul B. | Email | Homepage | 04.01.05 - 2:35 pm | #
The part that really infuriates me with all this is that Rogers and Avarois have no problem with outing anyone they deem unfit according to their lights. That to me definitely makes them terrorists. If you don't agree with their politics they out you to make you agree with their politics or shut up. That is exactly what terrorists do.
I think anyone who outs others for whatever reason are the lowest scum of the earth. They have absolutely no right to interfere with the life of their targets. I also think that Gay Patriot is also right to point this out and call them what they are. I am glad that his boss is supporting him.
If I choose to live a life quietly enjoying myself with my friends without parading my gayness to the world, that is my choice. It is not up to anyone else to interfere with that choice. When they do then it is also my right and the right of my friends to call them on it for what it is. That is what Gay Patriot did and he was absolutely right to do so.
There are a lot of us gays out there who do not support the drinking, partying, drugging, irresponsible sex acting, guppie lifestyle that apparently is what the people live Rogers and Avarois support. We are entitled to live that life as we see fit. We also tend not to make a big deal of it. When scum like Rogers and Avarois interfere with that life, they deserve whatever pain they get. dick | Email | Homepage | 04.02.05 - 2:45 pm | #
Isn't it funny that it's perfectly acceptable in this "new reality" for Republicans to play dirty. But heaven-forbid that a Democrat does the same! Democrats who stand up for themselves are "terrorists", don'tchaknow.
If only every wingnut would take his ball and go home in a fit of pissiness like our friend, GayPatriot. It would make our job sooooo much easier. Harrumph | Email | Homepage | 04.03.05 - 5:06 pm | #
It's about time someone called a spade a spade and that is what gaypatriot did. Do Steve Talbert and others who commented here really believe that a gay gestapo threatening the livelihood of those who do not toe their ideological line is a good tactic to use to achieve social progress?
Rogers et al. are the epitomy of crass political immaturity and ineptitude...and hate on display...
It's time for cooler heads like the BLADES Crain to come forward and say: STOP.
Outting is WRONG and the privacy nuts on the left should be the first to say so. So called gay rights advocates should begin to realize that their cause is not advanced until they take control of the hate that lies within their own ranks.
Blaming Gay Patriot or the Pope, or Ronald Reagan or Jerry Falwell or George W. Bush for your problems won't get you a solution.
Grow up you brain dead liberals before someone pulls your feeding tube... Mike | Email | Homepage | 04.03.05 - 5:51 pm | #
Dave and Les are so ugly that demonic forces and demons would think twice before possesing them. They are both so ugly that tornados blow in the opposite direction from them. They are so ugly that lions, tigers and bears back down from Les and Daves face. They are so ugly that the planets in the solar system orbit a few miles higher when they look up.When they pass by nursing and rest homes old people say " and i thought i had bad skin". They are so ugly that mean dogs with rabies would not bite them. They are so ugly that plants die. Dave is so retarded looking that mental asylems call for back up. They make cows and sheep migrate away from them when they look. Les is so old looking that moon beams turn upward to avoid shining on them.When Les walks out into the night street lamps turn off. They are both so ugly that when they get together planets in the galaxy move apart from the same space as earth. Wild hyennas laugh at them in the woods. They are so ugly they could chase away a killer whale in the sea, before all jellyfish flee from stinging them. Les and Dave are so ugly that grass turns grey when they look down.Les and dave are so ugly that old 94 year old men say "I wonder why these animals are not locked in some freak show cage".They both are so ugly that citys avacuate when they get together.Mud Cats flee when the look aroud. Even Karl Marx would say "I know that socialistic theory is logic, but who could stand such a sight of these creatures". If you want to see who i am talking about please go to Stupid Evil Basterd's website. Search for this sight and try not to puke when you see his photo. Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.04.05 - 12:26 pm | #
Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.04.05 - 12:27 pm | #
Come on Les! How many real people support your garbage on the web. Get real Les! You hide behind this hocus pocus, voodoo, cult type of crap to avoid the facts of your own life. You personify arrogance, hatred and ignorance. Thats why i must let people know about what you stand for and that's a lot of fictive fickle minded B.S. So what if some of your brain washed fanatic followers take your side on this. The truth will still stand. As far as my past attacks on your dumb blog. They were for a reason. To let all fools like you know. If you dont start nothing it wont be nothing. But you just had to start the madness. Even when my first comment ever posted was not even about you and Dave. You sort of make me wonder. How sick can the world really be. Some people joke about things in life. Others just take things way to literal. Even though you may express your belief and opinions. They should not be directed at any other type of people as an insult. So you just had to direct that mess at me on your stupid blog. Thats why i had to return the response. Even if my reply was negative and cruel. When a man wants beef. Tit for tat i bring him his serving. Boy! did you mess with the wrong dude or what. Yes LES! (Stupid Evil Bastard) Jenkins or whatever your code name is. I said it! We all are entitled to are own opinion's right? If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen with all of that weird and spooky gossip. Do you think that the crap on your web (diary) or whatever it is turns out like....... vintage wine that gets finer over time like gold of some precious metal. MAN PLEASE! Dont make me laugh. Your comments and statements are bewildering and beyond the realms of true reality. Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.25.05 - 9:29 pm | #
Les is ugly, Les is ugly, Les is Ugly, Les is ugly, Les is Ugly, Les is ugly, Les resembles a over stuffed, snot nose in a swamp, pale face, having no attractive face, looking like moose snot and bubbling hot hippo puss on a hot day, pig mildew over spoiled and lumpy milk face, Old WWE Big Show on coke face, Hairy adopted and shaved by the hendersons face, pork back, Acidic puke breath, unrelenting Alf nosed, cat eating, dracula's vault living, prehistoric beard having, Humble pie annoying blubber face having, Flat footed polar bear walking, Robotic freak show having, wooo Les maybe your big king sized carnival face and icelandic comments do amaze some dim witted geeks. heheheeheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
ehehehe now that was funny! Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.27.05 - 4:25 am | #
Les, Les, Les, how many office windows would your face crack? You look like THE BIG SHOW from WWE. I bet a lot of ticks, nats, glow worms, dry snot, and silver fish crawl and stick in your old 14th century beard. Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.27.05 - 4:30 am | #
Les is so ugly that wild Hyena dogs would spit out his remains. Les Jenkins is so ugly that flys mistake him for dead cattle. He looks so boring that even buda himself would get drowsy on his blog. 84 year old men say " Oh dear! what a pitifull seeming cave man". Les is ugly. Look at his ole 4th century, over stuffed pirate of the web, introverted hog in a santa hat, retarded Alf nose having, over fed cyber headed, old retired looking beard having, BIG dumb facial expression looking, blood shot jolly pale giant looking face. Not even a truck load of Botox could help this side show freakazoid. Why does he type about stuff that some evil thinking monk would'nt think about? His literature is foolish and ignorant. Les is a big bloat back having ego suffering maniac. His dialog is from like... another galaxy or something. Les looks like a lot of rotten duck yoke mixed in a dead neanderthal's hairy body that has been taken into some science lab for new disease causes. Les Jenkins is a prude. He thinks that he is some guru or some crap. Les Jenkins you old 165 year old pale skin having over fish fed ice seal. Les could ruin a vase of flowers with just 3 looks making them slowly wither away from his ole skunk breath. He must hyptnotize himself to keep from being so aware of his ugly old man looks. Grocery store owners say over the megaphone " Attention all shoppers and cashiers please do not puke on the floors and slowly turn away from the sight we are about to experience". Les is a obdurate. His hairy goat chin full of, fungus, ticks, water bugs, snails, cock roaches, and fleas would make any grey hound puke. He is a yellow belly yak. Les Jenkins you dewlap, dewpoint face having, fake dewy eyed, dewy, diabolic, diabolical, obese, diobolically unsound, diacritically ill, mental, typist. Go back to the planet Mars you idiot/ lunitic! Yeah i said it rosy faced pig. You should be some huge parasite, parboiled, parched, dookey sprayed with white paint face having scum bucket locked in some carnival's cage. You whistle blowing, zest for evil having, witchcraft studying poppa's poop butt, freakazoid, over stuffed geek! You and all of your fans (followers) suck. Your type of people are weird cyber dipsticks. Kiss my ass you jack ass!
Jimmy Kanada | Email | Homepage | 12.28.05 - 8:08 am | #
I just found out that when you ask too many questions of Mike or disagree with him you get blocked from posting on his blogactive site. Too bad he's so closed minded. Danielle Allen | Email | Homepage | 10.12.06 - 4:22 pm | #
and 
The pic is so ew.
