I'd have to say that I'm mostly pleased, mostly with the removal of the skywalk and the increased accommodation of mixed retail around all sides. I'm somewhat concerned, though, that the southern edge of the square is going to be absolutely dead now. With virtually no businesses on the south side of 5th and the fountain moved north, there's almost nothing to draw anyone to that southern edge. But I suppose enlivening those dank corridors toward 6th and walnut is more important than the southern edge. As long as they allow street vendors on the south, it should be ok.
I still contend that unless they encourage significant residential development in the area, it won't be used continuously throughout the day. They really need to find someone to develop a few floors of condos above the Macy's building to come online at the same time the square is finished.
I do not like this proposed design at all right now. Although the designers claim that there will be more usable space, it looks like it won't be functionally usable space. My proposal would be to put up video screens on the stage, add a new facade on the stage, and try to 'flatten' the whole square without moving anything from where it is.
I'm with Brian. Throw as many dollars as you can at the riverfront and Main Street. Those places are where they will get the most bang for their buck in terms of drawing people downtown. Alas, the city won't do that, because they have Fifth Third Bank calling the shots, and Fifth Third wants a new playground out front to make their building worth more. They don't care about Main Street.
Saying that the City is focusing on Fountain Square at cost to OTR and the Banks is not entirely accurate.
Of the three areas, Fountain Square is by far the easiest project to tackle. It has the smallest physical area involved. It is actually the cheapest project. It doesn't have the significant social challenges as the OTR projects. And because of its small cost, it doesn't have all the funding conflicts that the Banks have.
True, Fifth Third is probably the most interested in this, hence all the "private" financing to 3CDC.
But still I would expect them to make progress on Fountain Square before the other two areas.
If we're going to talk about projects that the city could be spending money on, I'd also like to bring up the fact that Broadway Commons is still an excellent location for development, which the city should be fully behind. The conceptual drawings of a mixed use area, similar to the Banks was proposed and I think has much more merit for consideration than Fountain Square. Sure, the square might take less, but it is still a lot of money, will take an entire year to get done, and won't benefit the city much.
We are missing out on a lot without a stage. This is also our public square.
"Fountain Square will cater to the Suburbanite who now may stay downtown after the baseball game. That is fine, but will it do anything to increase people moving to the city? It just makes a few Suburbanites feel like they are adventurous because they went to Fountain Square, oh the danger that brings."
This is the silliest thing I've read on your blog. What in the hell does the redevelopment of Fountain Square have to do with your hatred of suburbanites?
I've never lived anywhere other than a downtown/urban area and I like Fountain Square. I like to drink on Rock Bottom's patio and watch folks go by on summer nights. It has nothing to do with suburbanites "feeling adventurous" and everything to do with the fact that it's a lovely place. You rants about suburbanites are reaching McCarthyian levels. Did you get beat up a lot by a kid from West Chester?
I'm happy to see that the plans call for the developers to focus on local businesses (Simone's, Servati's, etc.). I hoped that Newport on the Levee would go in that direction but they went with generic chains instead (Dewey's excepted).
"Did you get beat up a lot by a kid from West Chester?"
( silently laughing to himself )
Fixing up Fountain Square is a great idea and, as gerard said, by far the most affordable.
Lowering the square closer to street level is a terrific idea; it would open up the entire area, from Tower Place and the Westin up to Rock Bottom and over to Fifth Third, and make it more accessible to pedestrians. As it is, the low walls block off views from the street and make it less inviting. People don't cross through it as they should. I also like the addition of high-limbed trees for shade, and they'll look awesome decorated with lights in the winter (or year-round, really).
I'm not sure how I feel about a giant TV screen. It'd be great for watching a Bengals away game outdoors with other people, but I suspect it'd end up showing ads and other visual clutter most of the time. Yuck.
The key to this is making sure there is plenty of square-level, outdoor restaurant/café seating. At least one of those has to be a place where you can hang out and order only drinks. I'm glad to see Fifth Third is considering moving out of the first floor there. You fill that space with restaurants and cafés with outdoor tables, and people will come.
I like the gentle slope of the existing square, and think a permanent stage of some kind should remain. The additional fountains are a distraction. The other changes are good, especially the focus on businesses around the square. This would not be my highest priority for the city, but overall gets my support.
"I'm not sure how I feel about a giant TV screen. It'd be great for watching a Bengals away game outdoors with other people, but I suspect it'd end up showing ads and other visual clutter most of the time. Yuck."
You'd probably hate Times Square in NYC.
"I'm glad to see Fifth Third is considering moving out of the first floor there. You fill that space with restaurants and cafés with outdoor tables, and people will come."
5/3 still occupies the first floor? I thought that it was pretty much occupied by a Dunkin Donuts, the Cincinnati Visitors Center, and Rockbottom Brewery.
I'm not too crazy about Times Square, as a matter of fact. When I wrote "visual clutter," that's exactly what I had in mind. But I'm not totally sold against a video screen getting put up, so pitch it to me: What type of content did you have in mind for that, Tominabox?
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what's on the first floor of the Fifth Third building directly to the east of Fountain Square. I drive past there about three times a week and park underneath frequently, and I don't even know what's there. Shows how inviting it is, I guess. Whatever goes there, I hope it spills out onto the square.
And I completely agree that adding more fountains kind of diminishes the one that's there. That space is prominent to anyone driving by in either direction, so it ought to make them really want to stop sometime and check it out.
"What type of content did you have in mind for that, Tominabox?"
For me, I would like to see banks of screens similar to what is on Times Square. Stock tickers, Fox News, live feeds from area entertainment, reality tv shows, whatever. I personally don't enjoy watching tv or movies, but frankly I am able to recognize that there is a tremendous demand for entertainment via a tv by nearly everyone else. And...there's nothing like it anywhere else in the Midwest as far as I know. How about that for creating something that can only be had in Cincinnati?
Looking at the drawing they would be limiting the number of people who can see the screen esp from the fountain with that big a$$ forest of trees on the west side of the fountain.
I'd rather have the trees than a bank of TV screens, but I'm probably in the minority on that. People do love TV.
I could live with turning Fountain Square into the front window of Swallen's as long as there's no volume -- especially if it's the level my dad likes to watch Fox News and stock tickers. God almighty, Dad!
The only thing that will populate the downtown area with a young and single middle class are industries which get their sustenence off of bigger industries. New York wasn't populated because it had nice big buildings and a snazzy theatre district. The businesses and the economics came first.
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