I've already been asked where I got the salary figures from.

Well, the first set of $45K/$70K are roughly the salaries paid to county commissioners & the county judge, respectively.

In the second set, I halved those amounts as an optional yes vote.

Chris Davis | Homepage | 05.08.08 - 2:34 pm | #

I would be amazed if anyone who witnessed the spectacle of Tuesday evening's City Commission meeting would be in favor of paying the Mayor and Commissioners. It's truly shameful.
Truth Seeker | 05.08.08 - 3:41 pm | #

A fair point. And I hope to post that video spectacle ASAP.

Yet, I still wonder if paying for these spots would cull (or at least stock) the applicant pool a little.

Chris Davis | Homepage | 05.08.08 - 3:49 pm | #

It's definitely an issue that has its pros and cons. Ideally, we shouldn't have to pay people for something that they should be volunteering for. But if you look at the current crop of politicians that this system has sprouted out, I'd say maybe a little compensation wouldn't be so bad.

After all, if some cops in bigger cities (or in Mexico) were payed better wages, they wouldn't have to turn to corruption to fill the void that their meager pay barely fills up.

I'm not at all implying that the city commission is corrupt, not at all. But it certainly does make you think.
Hector | 05.08.08 - 6:39 pm | #

You make some valid points.

As a member of the Charter Review Committee, I will definitely bring these items to the table.
Melissa Zamora | Homepage | 05.08.08 - 7:48 pm | #

when will that film be available?
thezipper | 05.08.08 - 9:35 pm | #

I absolutely think that the Mayor and Commissioners deserve better compensation. I don't know how well the city keeps records of the Mayor's schedule, but I think that the charter review committee should scrutinize the amount of time spent on city business by the past 3-5 mayors. If they spent an average of at least 20hrs/week, then the office definitely merits a salary. How much? I don't know; it would depend on what is determined to be the average hrs/week usually worked by Mayors. Now, this idea would only take into account how much time we already know is spent on city business. We might want to think more broadly about the role of the Mayor, and consider if we would like the position to officially be full-time; that would merit a salary more comparable to the county's.

With the Commissioners I think is a bit more difficult to determine. I don't think their duties rise to the occassion of salary. However, their duties probably take enough time that their office intrudes in their personal life and private job. I think the charter shoule be amended to stipulate the stipend to be the $10/meeting adjusted for inflation, and subsequently adjusted either every year, or every four years with the new election cycle. They can use the money for gas and cell phone use according to their individual needs.

I think a fair compromise would be to also amend the charter to specifically prohibit Commissioners from receiving benefits afforded to full-time employees.
Patricia A | 05.08.08 - 9:45 pm | #

Lo barato cuesta caro.

If we demand that our mayor and commissioners spend hours each week working on the people's business, but refuse to give them any pay or benefits, what kind of people can we expect in office. Independently wealthy people who can spend a lot of time on public service without having to work for a living? People who use their position to improve their financial situation (either through outright payoffs or through "consultant fees," getting contracts with government agencies, etc? Or people who cannot make much of a living in the private sector so they turn to politics to make themselves feel important?

As a business owner, I have found that when I offer fair compensation and benefits I attract a higher caliber of employee. I believe that our city would attract a higher caliber of public servants if we fairly compensated them for their efforts on our behalf.

Michael Cowen
Michael Cowen | Homepage | 05.08.08 - 11:12 pm | #

I would pay each commissioner $38000(part time) and the Mayor should get $50,000 plus benefits(full time). This is fair because it does take alot of personal time.
Charles Atkinson | 05.09.08 - 1:03 am | #

I'm in favor of a salary. But I'm even more strongly in favor of candidates that have earned college degrees. If we're going to pay them, let's make sure they're qualified. Practically all of the jobs in Brownsville that pay $38K (part time) and 50K (full time) require degrees. Why should the city commission be different?
Former BPUB employee | 05.09.08 - 7:59 am | #

Mr. Cowen, while I don't disagree with you, kindly refer to the post directly below yours and tell me if you think the poster's service to the city is worth $38,000 to you. If he were on YOUR payroll, would you be happy with your investment in his work?

Perhaps it's a chicken and egg conundrum. I can understand the theory of change you propose, but I can't stomach the idea of paying the current crop of people in office. When I try to assess the value they bring to the city, I end up with red ink for most of the commissions (and most certainly for the mayor).

I hope everyone who is thinking about this question will make the time to watch the City Commission meeting.
Truth Seeker | 05.09.08 - 8:02 am | #

Commissioner Atkinson,

You are the only commissioner so far to write in but all you put is that it takes alot of time. If the public is going to give a salary they will need to be convinced that it actually does take alot of time. Let’s face it, most people think all you do it show up to a meeting once every two weeks. Give us some specifics. Get the other commissioners to speak up on how much time they put in to representing our great city. Maybe then the people of Brownsville will agree to some form of compensation.

I truly believe a salary will bring better candidates out to run for office. A reasonable salary would probably only account for about half of one percent of the entire city budget. I would love to do whatever possible to get the best possible candidates to watch over the remaining 99.5 percent of that budget.

This is a great post and it needs to be done…. But the people of Brownsville need to be convinced it’s the right thing to do.
Adroit | 05.09.08 - 8:11 am | #

Does GTC include the time spent at bars as part of the personal time?

Are the folks who took the benefits over the years expected to pay them back? Why wasn't the amount of medical benefits included in the published reports?

El Coyote
El Coyote | 05.09.08 - 8:44 am | #

Here's a thought: Change the charter to allow for partial or full compensation for the mayor and commission.

A caveat ,though, is that the current members be all required to run again
before they can receive any benefits.

Another thought: the type of city government we have is a city-manager system. Pay for a more qualified city manager and let them run the day to day goings on of the city.

We suffer from the micro-managing boards around this city greatly.

El Coyote
El Coyote | 05.09.08 - 8:50 am | #

The City Charter is there for any one to read and every one of these commissioners should have read it like the ones that have gone before them for the last fifty years.

They knew it was not about the money but the glory and prestige, that they get, they knew that the payment of $10.00 per meeting was the only financial reward they could claim.

These people knew before hand what the financial rewards were yet they went on fund raisers and into debt just to become "A CITY OF BROWNSVILLE COMMISSIONER" every one knows that this position is to enhance ones political career.

How many people who train sports for the children pay their own expenses every day week in week out for the sake of the children of Brownsville with not much “GLORY AT THE END OF IT” but the good feeling that they are helping the children of Brownsville?
We "DID NOT TWIST THESE PEOPLE BY THE NECKS TO BECOME COMMISSIONERS" as "THEY CHOSE TO SEEK THE GLORY THEMSELVES" can anyone in the history of Brownsville state when there was "AN EMPTY COMMISSINORS SEAT" They knew what rewards they were getting before they ran for office.
Let us take Commissioner Cisneros, he does not have the money that Captain Bob has but he ran against him and Won but he knew that the reward was only $10.00 per meeting.

Just wait until a commissioner’s seat becomes empty, there will be many people running for that seat maybe two or three for each seat open and they will be glad to sign a statement that they know the financial rewards they will get paid and that is $10.00 per meeting.

When I was a young man some 50 years ago I wanted to follow Tom Jones and be a professional singer (THERE WAS NO AMERICAN IDOL THEN) just local talent shows that helped you get bookings? But I could not afford to pay for recording test and cut a record as I had a young family to support so I took another career.

This is the same as the Commissioners they want to get into politics well if they cannot afford it then they have to seek another career as every one know from past experience that a struggling politician is wide open for corruption.
Elliot Ness | 05.09.08 - 9:46 am | #

I like the idea of better compensation for our leadership. The present controversy about insurance, et al., seemed rather petty, frankly, except the part about seeking benefits by something like subterfuge.

I even like C.Atkinson's suggested level of compensation.

But I wonder if it might be wise to see that the application of pay and benefits are delayed until after the next election for each seat. The current crop got themselves under one set of rules, so let those rules apply for their current term.

Congress had similar restrictions until they pulled a subterfuge and made their pay raises automatic.

The principle is that an elected official ought not to be able to vote him or herself a raise.
Stan | Homepage | 05.09.08 - 11:46 am | #

Yes paying a salary will bring a better class of people to the Commission, "So out goes Cisneros” (He makes up false time sheets”, “Out goes Charlie Atkinson” as he just wants glory by walking over people, “Out goes Mayor Ahumada” as he cannot obey the rules of a commissioners court NO CELL PHONES WHEN MEETING IS IN SESSION. I had better stop or we will have no one left
Need Glory | 05.09.08 - 1:01 pm | #

Does GTC consider the commision seat his full time job? Is he back on his real job yet or is he still pending? Where did he get the salary figures for the mayor and commissioners? Which way is the wind blowing this week? He seems to change his mind as often as the wind changes directions around here. Hey, Pendejete, what about the sports park and the annexation of the port today? Who's whispering in your ear this week?
El Coyote | 05.09.08 - 1:45 pm | #

Congress has one of its lowest ratings in the history of the US - all of you are aware we pay them too -

I was in Dallas when this entire debate came about - they now pay their commissioners - you would be hard pressed to find anyone in Dallas to agree things got better.

If we want to improve things we need to make recall easier. We also need to make it easier to get people on the ballot.

Most people do not vote based on knowledge of the candidate. We need to find a way to better inform the people of what the candidates believe and what the candidates believe are the important issues.

You can pay these people a million dollars a year and in the end without the people really knowing who these people are campaign money will decide most winners.

Brownsville is actually pretty good at punishing bad behavior - What ever Cornejo-Lopez did in the past was not meaningful to the reality that Munoz allowed a confessed killer to walk out of court without a bond. People knew this bad behavior and voted him out.

People know about this city commission - people really know - I am amazed about how much people know -none of them could possibly be reelected.

Forget about paying more money - If you care about your community look for candidates you can support - then help them raise the money to get their message out. If they truly believe in the community they will do it for free.

There are a lot of good people out there - we just need to keep voting out the incumbent and the good people will come forward once they realize bad behavior will be punished.

Nice post CD

Bobby WC
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.09.08 - 6:20 pm | #

Elliot Ness, if we used your logic, then there would never be any change of policy of any type because someone can always argue that "that's the way we've always done it, and you should've known that when you ran for office." There are all kinds of policy that the Commission has to deal with; this is just policy having to do with compensation. You can't say all other policy is subject to change by the deliberative process, but this one is somehow 'special' and should be set aside, stagnant in perpetuity. Perhaps previous Commissions had not moved to change the charter because they understood that in politics perception wins out over the merits of an argument, and they knew there would be people like you ready to accusse everyone of self-dealing.

If you don't think there should be any compensation, at least argue for the charter to be amended to reflect that. To argue that it should remain as is means that you believe the city leaders of 1915 foresaw our current cost of living and inflation, and still intended the stipend to be $10 indefinitely. That is not an intelligent arguement. $10 was not spare change back then, and they intended for Commissioners to be sufficiently compensated. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Inflation Calculator, $10 in 1915 would be equivalent to $211.41 in 2008.

The principle of compensation was built into the Charter when Brownsville became a home-rule city. The only thing in question is the amount. We should be realistic about what it takes to carry out the duties of Mayor and commissioner and compensate them accordingly. The current Charter provision is an insult to our intelligence, and a testament to our inability to have an honest debate solely based on the merits of each side's arguments.
Patricia A. | 05.09.08 - 7:18 pm | #

Does paying politicians make for better politicians? Can we count free trips and meals as payment and take it from their weekly check?

If a commissioner has a job and then we pay on top of that...isn't that illegal? Double dipping perhaps.

It shouldn't be a full time job. WE have city managers, city engineers, accountants, lawyers etc. They are paid to WORK. The problem is our elected officials, wrongfully believe we elected them to micro manage the city. I don't think that is the intent...if so, fire everyone and pay the commissioners.
The last meeting was embarassing! I would be completely depressed if I saw that...and then realized I pay them to do that....
Wonder Woman | 05.09.08 - 8:08 pm | #

Congress had similar restrictions until they pulled a subterfuge and made their pay raises automatic.

The principle is that an elected official ought not to be able to vote him or herself a raise.

And that is one of the exact reasons that this camel's nose be resoundingly whacked with a fireplace poker, and I mean right now!

If this were a corporation, the lot of them would be fired in the wake of a takeover by a by competing corporation, like McAllen.

I am tired of them, they all act like clowns, and if the collective brains I have seen were dynamite, there wouldn't be enough there to blow my nose.

It would take many,many more words for me to describe the level of disgust and revulsion I feel when I see the commission get together to conduct their monkey-business.

Throw in the chance that these jokers could actually get paid for these shenanigans, and the circus that we have been seeing would escalate to insanely obscene levels.

I think that discussing FINES for their behavior would be more in line with a sane, ordered universe and could bring peace and balance to The Force.

Now where did I leave that Light Sabre?

"Of course I know. It is my business to know." -The Merovingian
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.09.08 - 11:42 pm | #

BWC--
"Most people do not vote based on knowledge of the candidate. We need to find a way to better inform the people of what the candidates believe and what the candidates believe are the important issues."

Maybe if we had a real newspaper in town instead of this cozy-up thing that joins projects like BV 2020 which are guaranteed to destroy any ability to maintain objectivity.

Objectivity, contrary to popular right wing opinion, is possible. If you're a journalist, you follow the canons of ethics on reportage. It's right there in the AP manual. Every stylebook does it.

I used to teach GT English, they used to call it, and I had the editor of the Herald come around and stumble and guffaw for an hour in front of my assembled students. After the lecture and some very rough Q & A from some pretty smart kids, he confided in me as he was leaving that it had been a good exercise for him. In preparing, he said, he'd come to realize that he really needed to do more research at his job.

If you read the Herald this morning, they blamed all the bad government on the voters, that they were ignorant and too stupid (they didn't use that adjective) to find out who these candidates were.

Well, who's job is it to find out and tell who those candidates are? I often wonder. But I'm reclusive by nature and don't go around to the schmoozing spots to find out. I read the paper. They are the fourth estate, in these parts. They have a civic duty, but they're too busy cozying up.

Well,that was quite a ramble. But the point is this: we're not going to get good candidates with money alone. We need a tool that helps us make our council-folk and mayors transparent to us. Until that happens, this is going to be the same small town of thirty-some thousand that circled its wagons politically in the seventies to protect itself from the new invasion from the North that I was part of in the early 80's. After more than thirty years it's still a mystery to me who runs things and where all the alliances lay in this town.
Stan | Homepage | 05.10.08 - 12:23 am | #

I overstated. I've been here twenty-seven years.
Stan | Homepage | 05.10.08 - 9:17 am | #

For "Need Glory"! Instead of seeing me as someone who runs over people, I would like for you to see just who I question and want explanations for the things they do and want. I am here for the citizens who want the playing field to be fair. Right now it isn't. We need more control over city staff because the corruption starts there and ends with the commission. Take for instance that grant that was approved. Its all fine and dandy to get a grant but when the sole purpose of this grant was for the grantwriter to possibly benefit personally, then I will question it. Thank god we made our point at the meeting that city staff decides how the grant money is distribute. On another note. I have a degree in Sociology and in Criminology. I have worked on the border for over ten years and can pretty much figure out who is honest and who is not. Sorry if I use my training from work and utilize it at the commission meetings. I don't have time for con artists to blow smoke up my ass. I call a spade a spade. On another note: Most of the commissioners sit on other boards and attend other meetings. I go to the PUB meetings sometimes. I am chairman of the 4b corporation which Carlos Cisneros and Tony Troiani sit on as well. I go to the 4A meetings sometimes and yes I do go to restaurants and bars to talk business because that is the nature of the beast. I also do business on the golf course when someone invites me who needs to give me information or wants information about city business. I apologize if I come across harsh but when I do it is because I have insight knowledge about the person I am being harsh with so I call them out in the best interest of the people. Most of the real people that pay attention know that I'm trying to do what is best for Brownsville. I have no special interests other than helping Brownsville become a Sports Authority when tourists will come and enjoy our parks and cultural heritage. And yes, I still feel that we need to annex the Port Of Brownsville. It is a jewel Brownsville should own, not special interests. Baby steps, Baby steps!!!
Charles Atkinson | 05.11.08 - 2:59 am | #

I don't have time for con artists to blow smoke up my ass. I call a spade a spade.

I am glad to see we have something in common.

M.
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.11.08 - 11:49 am | #

I was disappointed to read Commissioner Longoria state in today's Herald that he wouldn't seek changes to the Charter with respect to compensation. If he is going to justify receiving the benefits on principle, then he should argue for that same principle. I understand that it would be extremely unpopular when running for mayor, or reelection, but he already did himself a world of damage by suggesting doing away with collective bargaining for BPD and Firefighters.

Also, if we can't have a civil debate, and subsequently, a clear and realistic policy regarding compenstion and what benefits are and aren't allowed, the issue will continue to be politicized. In the same article it states that Ahumada gets health insurance from the city, which he justifies by saying that he pays the premiums. If the Mayor needed health insurance, why didn't he get it on his own from a private insurer? Because individual health insurance from a private company is expensive. As Pete Gonzalez explained at the May 6 meeting, the city health insurance is very generous and unlikely to be matched by private insurance. Their premiums, deductibles, and co-pays may have to go up because the current package may no longer be feasible. The Mayor made a deliberate decision to get insurance from the city and not a private company, and thus, HE IS BENEFITING FROM THE SAVINGS; so, his insurance IS PARTIALLY SUBSIDiZED. What a great technicality, made possible by our lack of a clear, detailed policy.

I would like to know, though, does the city's plan cover chiropractor's fees? Becuase that would be akin to---well, nevermind.
Patricia A | 05.11.08 - 2:55 pm | #

Commissioner, you would be doing the public a favor if you spent more time giving people the details of the grant you referred to and less time trying to justify your lack of civility. Being discerning and being well-mannered aren't mutually exclusive, by the way.

Don't dance around the edges of this grant proposal. Spell out how the mayor's girlfriend would benefit from the grant--talk about the space she proposes to lease to the program in her Chinese restaurant chiropractic clinic/reception hall. Talk about the amount of money written into the grant for non-city contractors and who those contractors will be. Talk about how badly written the grant was and what a laughingstock the city will be in the eyes of those reviewing the grant.

And if you're certain that city staff is corrupt, don't just make wild allegations. Do something about it. Behaving badly in commission meetings isn't the way to solve the problems in our community. Surely you must know that.
Truth Seeker | 05.11.08 - 5:57 pm | #

I don't know about corrupt, but some city officials seem to be incompetent. Why is public works run by anybody but an engineer? All the work done there needs to come up to engineering standards and, while I can read a spec sheet as well as anyone, I want an engineer directing and insuring the work to be up to those standards.

And why is there no regular maintenance program? These streets would last a lot longer if they were re-sealed periodically. Then we wouldn't be driving over all those bumps and ad hoc patches that lead to an eventual ad hoc rebuild.

A while back, I asked a simple question about how much has been spent on one street, Pablo Kisel Blvd.,since the city had accepted it. What I got was runaround and obfuscation, and begging of the question, a one page "estimate" (when I'd said "how much") that we'd spent $79,790 in two years on patches no larger than ten by thirty feet. Any one who drives the street goes across a southbound replacement of a whole lane which included replacing curbing and at least re-positioning some street drains. It's a half mile long. There's another southbound two-lane patch from Gold's Gym to the freeway, a quarter of a mile.

I'm sorry to repeat these numbers again, but I'm galled. Estela Von Hatton says she's emailing the head of Public Works on a regular basis--at least weekly, if I understood her correctly.

The response is silence. No "I'm working on it" or "I'm really busy." How responsible is that? It's a legitimate question.

I asked at the same time for agreements and covenants the city had made with the developer and contractor. The paper work can't be found. Nobody is sure if its should be the engineering department or the legal department who'd be holding it.

The City Engineer did say that "Since I have only been with the city a little over 5 years, I really don’t first hand experience as to what happened with the construction of this road. I will try to answer your questions as best as I can. From what I have gathered, apparently project engineer, for the developer recommended a new stabilizing agent for the sub-base of the street."

Later in the letter he says that he has no documentation, just what people who were around at the time had told him. The records, he says, are messed up. His words: "... this all happened before my time, so the answers to these questions are based on me asking different people. I do not have any documentation to back up this information."

Why not? I don't know a profession where adequate record keeping isn't a standard. This is the very definition of incompetence and it's turning into dishonesty.

I apologize for going on about this at length, but I asked about this the first on February 6. This is 12th of May. How can that be acceptable?

If we have competent people in place, then let's staff their offices adequately at least long enough to get organized. Temps? If we don't have competent people in place, then why don't we get them?

Engineers are more expensive, but we're a city of 170,000. We require the services. If the privateers insist that it be farmed, then farm it.

But let's don't keep going with business as usual when, demonstrably, business as usual is not working.

I believe I just outlined what I need to say at the next commission meeting.
Stan | Homepage | 05.11.08 - 10:40 pm | #

"The Mayor made a deliberate decision to get insurance from the city and not a private company, and thus, HE IS BENEFITING FROM THE SAVINGS; so, his insurance IS PARTIALLY SUBSIDiZED. What a great technicality, made possible by our lack of a clear, detailed policy."

Ms. A

Perhaps a compromise around the current situation would have the commissioners re-imbursing the city for their premiums. We might be able to handle a backhanded subsidy. The commissioners, past and present, have painted themselves into what must be an uncomfortable corner. There needs to be a way out for them.
Stan | Homepage | 05.12.08 - 12:01 am | #

Stan, I agree. Reimbursement is already a political issue and there should be a reasonable compromise. The only reason I mentioned the Mayor's isurance is to point out how a lack of a comprehensive policy can allow him to benefit from his position and also allow him to critize the other commissioners. Heck, I'd be fine with no reimbursement from anyone, as long as we could move on to a real, nonpolitical, respectful debate over the issue.
Patricia A | 05.12.08 - 11:32 am | #

Ms. A
Point taken. I'd actually gotten it from your post, but how to settle the past is going to be a part of the solution and your idea struck me. There's a lot of emotion on all sides of the issues involved, and folks having reasonable solutions can calm some of that down so we can have that debate.

I'm still on the fence on the compensation issue. We have, by 1910 design, the height of the progressive movement, a city manager government with a council and mayor to set policy and settle disputes and the manager to run day-to-day and keep the books. In progressive theory of the day, the council and mayor are civic minded folks who do it out of a sense of duty. Of course, subsequent history has taught us that it is very often movers and shakers who do it as an opportunity to advance themselves and their "party," which, under one-party Democratic rule for most of the century past, was the usual gang of dependents and hangers on typical of the "machine" politics that the progressives wanted to replace. And we get a large turnover in managers. I don't recall them all since I moved here, but it's a bunch. And the turnovers seemed to have a lot to do with turnovers in the board and a need to get "their" folks in.

So do I want to compensate them? Since we seem on this board to be in a most non-progressive mode, I got my doubts.
Stan | Homepage | 05.12.08 - 2:38 pm | #

We have, by 1910 design, the height of the progressive movement, a city manager government with a council and mayor to set policy and settle disputes and the manager to run day-to-day and keep the books. In progressive theory of the day, the council and mayor are civic minded folks who do it out of a sense of duty.

Yet, in 1915, only five years after the height of the progressive movement, compensationn for the Mayor and Commissioners was established. This when the city was a fraction of its current size, fueling up was not an issue, and public officials were not expected to be tethered to their cell phone or email. It has been 93 years since the $10/meeting stipend was set. The city has changed a bit.

I, however, don't see better compensation as a catalyst for a better pool of candidates--though, I'm open to be pleasantly surprised. I see it as a recognition of the time and effort that it takes to carry out the duties of the office, independent of who currently occupies it. As it has already been stated, they don't just show up at public meetings for two or three hours every other week; they serve on other boards. We want them to be informed on the inner workings of the city and not simply rubber stamp everything staff puts in front of them as the BND commissioners did with regards to the $21million bridge. It takes time to meet with staff or to read up on the many issues that they have to vote on. We also want them to be familiar with the street and drainage problems, to go out and see it for themselves. If they fail to do any of these, then we fire them on election day.

Unfortunately, the current Commission makes it very hard to think about ideas and principles alone. I'm not very hopeful that the question of compensation will be realistically addressed.
Patricia A | 05.12.08 - 7:45 pm | #

On the issue of compensation: I agree that paying city officials might have an effect on the quality of the candidates seeking office. Voters should consider education, training, and experience as factors for choosing a candidate for any elected position. One of the reasons I ran was to hopefully motivate others to participate in City government.

Speaking for myself, aside from the bimonthly City meetings I normally spend approximately 15 hours a week meeting with people, attending various subcommittee and/or board meetings researching issues and communicating with constituents. During exceptionally work intensive weeks as many as 15 - 25 hours a week may be spent on City business. Aside from that, prior to all meetings I review the materials submitted with the packet. That is why agenda items must have supporting materials included in the agenda packet. I do not schedule meetings after hours because I choose not to. I try to keep after hours for finishing up my regular work and my family.

I went into office with my eyes wide open about compensation. I knew I would receive $10.00 a meeting and that’s what I receive. I maintain my own health insurance, cell phone and vehicle. I expect the city to pick up reasonable expenses when I travel on city business. Justifying expenses is not an issue.

In my opinion, we may be paid if 1) the public is made aware of the exact form of compensation to be paid and 2) the voters have had the opportunity to elect candidates who they have agreed to compensate.

I enjoy what I do and participating in local government is an incredible learning experience. I constantly remind myself that I have to monitor the amount of time I dedicate to the position because it can rapidly consume hours and days. Time is a commodity and each of us has a responsibility to give some for the benefit of our community.


Anthony Troiani
Anthony Troiani | 05.12.08 - 11:39 pm | #

Patricia, you really are a voice of reason. Stan(Scott), you need to be more diplomatic and stop being disgruntle guy! People, dont forget about Imagine Brownsville tomorrow. Its a public forum. Maybe Stan can come by and make his points during this open meeting. I agree with Stan on some issues but actions speak louder than words. Our engineer Carlos Lastra does a good job. Engineers in general, are smart but they do not know everything. I would take Santana Torres over a lot of Engineers I know because he is a doer instead of a planner. Lastra engineers and Santana gets it done. Why do we need multi engineers when we dont have a lot of projects or money to do them. We are fine right now. An engineer and a regular joe off the street can look at a road and say, golly, this road sucks and needs repairing. After that you need experience to come in and fix the road. Santana has that experience. SOrry Stan but you are a bit off the mark when slamming a guy like Santana who has been doing the job for 30 years. He got his shot at being a director and is doing just fine. If you know different, let me know.
charles atkinson | 05.13.08 - 9:00 am | #

Excellent response, Commissioner Troiani. Now that's a professional, insightful response.
Melissa Zamora | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 9:12 am | #

"Stan(Scott), you need to be more diplomatic..."

Fricking Classic.

Chris Davis | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 11:08 am | #

Good thing you put captions on the classic link. I don't think the Government agent would get it without them. So diplomatic of you, Chris.

El Coyote

Maybe you can add stick figures if he still doesn't get it.
El Coyote | 05.13.08 - 2:02 pm | #

Commissioner Atkinson:

Please read carefully. I've been trying to get information from Mr. Santana for four months. What I've got back is drivel and not on the mark.

I've posted his response here: http://www.nunnayerbizness.com/2...s-the-response/ Take a look. I don't want discussions to be around personalities and individuals, but when the issue is competence and the competencies we want for a job, it's likely to come up.

If, while your at nunnayerbizness.com, you do a search for Pablo Kisel (search is at the top of the right column), you'll see how much effort I've put into getting answers on the costs of that street and how much fooling around and obfuscating I've gotten for my efforts.

I'll see you at the next meeting. Please don't condescend there, too.

Who is Scott?

Stan Raines
Stan | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 3:56 pm | #

Watch out for Scott, he is a dick !
(South Park, for the unwashed masses)

M.
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 10:06 pm | #

Charles Atkinson - if you think Santana is doing a good job you are clueless beyond human comprehension. They just patched Apollo for the upteenthtime (spelling who knows) within a week the holes will be back and I will be scubbing tar off my truck again -

He has no idea how to do road maintenance - he is clueless and how you can say otherwise leads one to question if you have ever even driven on a Brownsville road.

Today I was at the Southmost Library (they get an F on books by Steinbeck -I ordered 3 tonight on Amazon to donate) anyway there is a huge pothole in this new parking lot. It is huge - major huge - how did this happen - who is responsible for the original work - how does a hole that big go unrepaired in the parking lot of a city library?

Santana was a mistake - everyone I know has indicated they will oppose any bond for roads so long as a highschool graduate is running Public Works -

The idea that you believe a highschool graduate could possibly be better qualified over an engineer is yet another example of your incredibly bad judgment.

Again on the pay issue, we pay Congress and they are the most inept congress in recent history.

Keep it at $10.00 - take away all perks of office,(no free meals or travel from vendors or anyone else) but give them a city cell phone, reasonable millage and give them full health insurance coverage.

Dallas went through this same debate and I defy anyone to find anyone in Dallas who believes the quality of representation got better after they started to pay their city council members - it is a myth - but like I said give them the things I listed - it is a fair compromise
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.13.08 - 10:30 pm | #

CD,

Stan Raines said "Please don't condescend there, too."

I say: Mr. Raines, I am impressed with your eternal optimism.

Kurgan
kurgan | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 10:53 pm | #

First, I want to apologize for answering the good Councilman in the same testicular style in which he wrote.

Second, I want to commend the good Councilman for coming to the defense of his man. How very Chivalrous. Except the implication that the good Mr. Santana needs defense and cannot defend himself.

Third, I ask the good Councilman to look at what he has said: "We are fine right now. An engineer and a regular joe off the street can look at a road and say, golly, this road sucks and needs repairing." This is precisely the problem. We wait in this city until anybody driving down a street can tell that it is in need of repair rather than taking a systematic approach, a proactive approach, and set up regularly scheduled maintenance routine. Ask anyone in any industry, scheduled maintenance rules. It is more efficient in terms of work and money.

I agree that, once a patch must be made, any Joe can get out there and do it, but the question is, how long will any Joe's patch last? If it's done up to an engineering standard, probably quite a long time. If it's done the way I've seen them done here--no surveying or measurement of any kind, no reconstruction of underlay, just dig it, dump it, and roll it out a little--it's not going to last very long at all. Again, I point you to Pablo Kisel Blvd. where we have patches on patches on patches in a very short span of time.

As for the costs, I challenge the good Councilman to do the job--go get firm, reliable figures on how much has been spent on that street. But more importantly, begin to consider how the city's departments can be run efficiently.

And, Councilman, try to get over your prejudice against folks with college educations.

-Stan Raines
Stan | Homepage | 05.14.08 - 8:13 am | #

Keep it at $10.00 - take away all perks of office,(no free meals or travel from vendors or anyone else) but give them a city cell phone, reasonable millage and give them full health insurance coverage.

That's exactly how it was before the ruling, Bobby.
Patricia A | 05.14.08 - 10:47 am | #

For those advocating keeping it at $10/mtg, consider something:

Patricia A touched on why your position is unrealistic (at least by a factor of 12). That stipend was set quite a while ago. In 1943, from what I understand.

Using the U.S. Govt inflation calculator gives us an adjusted $124/mtg in today's dollars. Still wanna keep it at $10 in 2008? Well, that would have equaled 81¢/mtg back in 1943.

Chris Davis | Homepage | 05.14.08 - 11:19 am | #

That stipend was set quite a while ago. In 1943, from what I understand.

I thought it was 1915. Of course, my only source is the Herald, and we know they're not always reliable. The fact that we don't have a clear date shows how the previous 'debates' over this have not been around information but political cliques. The last charter election was not simply compensation vs no compensation, it was Trevino & Co. vs Ahumada & Co.
Patricia A | 05.14.08 - 1:21 pm | #

I stand by my position - the health insurance is a big deal and is a major benefit which everyon deserves -so what it is 10 dollars - they have a choice $124.00 or health insurance -I think a smart person would choose the health insurance.

I agree with the ruling - all I am saying is lets give them something - health insurance is very valuable.

Hey stan what do you know about Ruben Cepeda - possiblty a compliance officer at the city dumps?
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.14.08 - 8:34 pm | #

Stan, I have nothing against people with college degrees. I have one myself. What I am saying is that having a degree does not make you smarter than someone who doesn't. All it means is that you were disciplined to finish college by either paying for it yourself or mommy and daddy paying for it. There are some really smart people out there that don't have degrees and for what ever reasons could not finish college. Mr. whiteman Cervantes, most people who I know that know you think you are a very smart man but lack common sense and street smarts. Not all lawyers are intelligent people. Most of the time their paralegals do all the work anyway. Dont get me wrong, there are some highly intelligent lawyers but they are few. Everytime that I have asked for help on a street, Santana has responded well. Mr. Whiteman-Cervantes, you really dont know crap about our Public Works. We have private companies paving streets. We have the City engineering department paving streets, and we have publicworks doing streets. Dont blame the problems of bad streets on someone who just got the job. Go drive around my district. We have paved lots of streets because I am involved in getting my streets done. Rio del Sol was forgotten for the past ten years after the city annexed it. This year we will have paved over thirty streets in Rio del Sol including the mother of all streets Rancho Viejo BLVD. Things are getting done. We just need more money. We have not raised taxes in 20 years. We have evened lowered taxes when we shouldn't have. It was a political move that has hurt our budget. Once we lowered taxes,another entity raised their taxes and the citizens didn't benefit.
Charles Atkinson | 05.14.08 - 11:57 pm | #

Atkinson, first I would not trust a supreme court justice to work on anything which has my name on it - I have never paid a paralegal - I make my money as a paid consultant by various law firms around the state - they pay me because I will dig to the bowels of hell to find what they need and I know how to do it. It is not about being smart - which I am not - it is about taking pride in the quality of my work product. I do not believe in smart people -(That is a BS excuse for people not doing their job) I believe in taking pride in my work product and accoutability

Commonsense - you know I hate distractions - I was raised in the streets by a welfare mother with 7 kids - in the old days she had to go to college to learn to become a social worker if she wanted to receive the welfare -(even with 7 kids) and where you got government surplus food instead of food stamps -

you also had to pay back the welfare- which she did with her life because when it came time to retire to her native Nicaragua, for health reasons, show could not because the second she sold the house the government was going to get nearly all of the equity to satisfy the welfare lien - which they did after she died. (The house was worth 26k and the lien was for 10k and she owed 6k.

She anguished for more than a year desperate to retire to Nicaragua - she had no job because of her health. I take extraordinary pride in the fact while 19 years old and trying to support myself in college half-way across the country I was able to save the money to send her to her native Nicaragua for a month for her 58th Birthday - she died shortly after her return,

I know about reality - I lived it. I do not hang in bars, I hang in the streets of Southmost with my neighbors and listen to their stories.

Hey Atkinson - you see how I am being specific and not using endless unsubstantiated global accusations.

I reference all of this because I hate the con job of distractions and global accusations.

I know several people who work for public works. I am currently investigating whether or not it is true that Ruben Cepeda is in fact a compliance officer with the city dumps and does not in fact speak, read or write English - if this is true it is yet another example of just how messed up Public Works really is.

Mr. Atkinson, you seem to have a problem with the concept of accountability - Santana is at the top - it is his ball - he is at the end of the day in charge of streets -

As the man in charge they still do not have any game plan for addressing the failure of our streets - it is still the same as under the old guard - the same old patches which do not work. I have seen the city trucks doing the patch work - so please do not push your BS lies that it is private companies.

Also, let's say it is a private company - if it does not work why does Public Works not demand that the city stop hiring these "private companies." (Oh yea, they are the compadres of the city commissioners)

Atkinson you want to correct me on specifics I will thank you for that because it is important I get it right - but you know what, I will trust the employees in Public Works who speak to me before I trust a Brownsville city commissioner who does not understand the most fundamental concept of "accountability" and where the buck stops.
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.15.08 - 8:48 am | #

Bobby,

You make a little sense but you are still off the mark. I dont want to fight with you so we can agree to disagree. You made some good points. You have made assumptions about me without even knowing me. If you want to get together and talk shop, lets do so. When people want to talk, I am there. 465-8877.
Charlie
Charles Atkinson | 05.15.08 - 11:43 pm | #

"we can agree to disagree"

Everytime GTC runs into someone he can't win an argument with this is his pat answer.

GTC is the perfect example that a college degree doesn't mean you are smart.

El Coyote
El Coyote | 05.16.08 - 9:01 am | #

El COyote Peyote,

Your right, Im not the smartest guy but I do know where to go and whom to go to when I need some answers. I never claimed to be the smarter guy out there but I do get shit done. LIke it or not, a lot of people back me up because they know that Im not a know it all prick like some people I know.
Charles Atkinson | 05.16.08 - 2:14 pm | #

I'm still waiting to see if Mr. Atkinson has accepted the challenge to find actual numbers on the costs of Pablo Kisel Blvd. and the agreements made between the city and developer on that project. Did the city engineer sign of on using a non-standard soil standardizer, and did the city make a twenty-foot giveback on the right of way worth millions?

I also note that, since his appearance in this discussion, the conversation is no longer about whether we should change the compensation for commissioners and the mayor, but, rather, it's all now about him.

Should we compensate at a higher level?

Mr. Troiani's made a fair statement about his efforts. What is the effort for others on the commission?

Should they document their efforts for commission and be paid accordingly or be given a flat but more generous stipend?
Stan | Homepage | 05.16.08 - 4:25 pm | #

In my opinion, we may be paid if 1) the public is made aware of the exact form of compensation to be paid and 2) the voters have had the opportunity to elect candidates who they have agreed to compensate.

Mr. Troiani's statement was really very insightful. The public has to be part of the decision process - I'd suggest a forum or special meeting this summer to involve these concerned citizens. Should Commissioners get a salary from the City, or various other benefits like Mayor Ahumada recently suggested such as life insurance coverage, etc. The responses would be interesting. Troiani is absolutely right on point 2 also. That was Eddie's biggest mistake - the way Proposition 8 was written in 2005 it could be interpreted to allow sitting Commissioners to give each other a salary and raise whenever they felt like it. At that point the issue became completely politicized, to the point that an honest debate about the merits of different forms of compensation was impossible.

So much of the compensation issue is fueled as Patricia says by political maneuvering, it's become ideological ammunition to sway public perception toward or against individuals and factions. There is so much emotionally driven misperception surrounding it that I think Mr. Troiani's approach is the right one - an honest debate can't take place until the public understands what is involved with the position, what being a Commissioner costs in terms of business and personal time sacrificed, lost opportunities, money. He didn't mention it but I'd add its also important that people realize the scope of the decisions and level of responsibility each Commissioner is entrusted with.

Personally, I believe you get what you pay for. Ten dollars is less than what a high school dropout would get flipping burgers at McDonald's for two hours. Yet the public expects a highly qualified, motivated, honest volunteer force to sacrifice time away from work and personal life to make crucial decisions affecting our lives, multimillion dollar investments and the future of the City - yes, for ten dollars, then complains when this scenario attracts unqualified and/or openly dishonest individuals. The fact is that a $10 compensation, for obvious reasons, excludes most working, civic-minded candidates who would like to run for office but realistically can't afford to give up 15-25 hours every week for free. I'm definitely with Michael Cowen and Hector on this one because in general, better compensation attracts better applicants in any business.
Senorita | 05.16.08 - 6:48 pm | #

"I never claimed to be the smarter guy out there but I do get shit done."

El Pendejete's comment makes me beg to ask the eternal question:

Is it better:
(a)que no vales verga
or
(b)que si vales verga?

El Coyote
El Coyote | 05.17.08 - 11:57 am | #

CD's poll, with 127 participants,has a 53% group saying no and the rest saying pay something. Some of the negativitity may reflect Commissioner Atkinson's bullying tone here, and without him it may have worked differently, but who knows?

In any case, any kind of compensation is going to be a tough sell in Brownsville, even a cautious approach.

Plus I think a number of the good government types are pretty puritanical about viewing politicians as a fallen type of sinful humanity they'd like to take even the ten dollars from. And they are vocal. So an even harder sell.
Stan | Homepage | 05.17.08 - 3:52 pm | #

We pay a city manager. If the commissioners want it to be a paying job, the structure of city government would have to be changed.

How many ways do I need to shout this? The city commission was NEVER MEANT TO MANAGE!

It is this dead-from-the-neck-up misconception that many commissioners and commissioner wanna-bees have that they are somehow MANAGERS.

If you feel that the city departments require your special micro-management techniques, then you have a problem either with yourselves, or with the city manager. Figure out which it is and act accordingly.

You pay Jim Goza a bunch of money for advice. You pay lots of consultants for advice. You pay special attorneys lots of money for advice.

Mine came for free, and is probably the highest quality available on the subject.

Just to put things back on track, whether they should receive compensation is not the issue. It will not be an issue until such time as it is an agenda item either before the commission, or the charter review committee. Not one minute before.

What is the issue is the UN-ENTITLED COMPENSATION THAT THEY HAD BEEN RECEIVING.

"Of course I know. It is my business to know." The Merovingian
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.17.08 - 9:41 pm | #

time for paybacks?
Stan | Homepage | 05.18.08 - 1:02 am | #

The question before us is essentially a catch 22. Do we keep the status quo as a punishment for past actions or do we attempt to create an environment that will attract qualified policy makers in the future? The mayor and city commissioners are policy makers, not managers. We are not supposed to get involved in the day to day operations/ management of city government. A policy maker is supposed to propose objectives and goals for the community and insure that city management takes steps to implement those goals. In a word we are to provide oversight.

It will be very difficult to develop an equitable apolitical resolution to the compensation issue. Especially since the elected officials who accepted compensation will have legal defenses and justifications for their actions. These defenses if successful would be an absolute bar to individual liability. We could be left in a situation where some or none of the recipients would be held legally responsible. Not a very satisfying resolution.

To me benefits such as the City insurance package are attractive, but not worth the time or energy necessary to justify accepting them without public consensus. I think the most positive thing about the current environment is that many people in Brownsville are taking a closer look at by whom and how they are governed. We are a community of approximately 170 thousand documented residents. The city commission is at this time by intent and definition a body of unpaid policy makers governing a city with a multi million dollar budget and some very real infrastructure and economic needs.
Anthony Troiani | 05.18.08 - 4:23 pm | #

If the commissioners want it to be a paying job, the structure of city government would have to be changed.

Merovingian,

The structure of government doesn't need to change. If the duties under the current structure are such that they consume considerable amount of personal time and expense, then compensation is appropriate. Besides, it's already a paying job--$10/meeting--even if it's only part-time. Adjusting the current stipend to the inflation index, or, setting another amount/meeting that would then subsequently be adjusted for inflation would not break precedent.

How many ways do I need to shout this? The city commission was NEVER MEANT TO MANAGE!

No one is arguing that they should manage the day to day business of the city, but they are "the legislative and governing body of the city". They are not just an oversight board. They can initiate and/or change policy, and that may require a great deal of time and effort to learn and stay up to date on the many and varied issues that they have to vote on. Heck, the Charter says that they can create or eliminate whole departments and set the salaries and wages for all employees; that's quite a bit of authority.

whether they should receive compensation is not the issue. It will not be an issue until such time as it is an agenda item either before the commission, or the charter review committee. Not one minute before.

Well, the title of this post is "Should/Could Commissioners Receive Benefits?", and we have chosen to discuss whether they should or shouldn't, so it's an issue in this forum.
Patricia A. | 05.18.08 - 6:33 pm | #

Well, the title of this post is "Should/Could Commissioners Receive Benefits?", and we have chosen to discuss whether they should or shouldn't, so it's an issue in this forum.

You are, of course, right. They do have the authority, and that is the title of the post.

I got carried away with the disgust level that our non-theoretical and often times theatrical compost-composition of reality thrusts upon me.

M.
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.18.08 - 10:17 pm | #

The argument appears to be a wage would recuit more qualified people into local government.

Presumptively, this means unqualified people are currently holding public office.

I have no problem supporting a charter change which mandates insurance coverage, car allowance with verified documentation such as, time, place, purpose and millage, and cell phone.

I do not buy into the notion a good wage means qualified people. Bush was the first president to receive the higher pay grade for president - and that got us what?

Some might say set minumum standards for running for city commission - university graduate maybe - yea that would be consistent with representative government.

Until we make it clear we will punish all bad behavior in public officials, and reward good behavior - good people will not run for public office -

you can pay these people a million dollars a year and nothing will change if you do not punish bad behavior - simple as raising a child

BObby WC
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.18.08 - 10:21 pm | #

Charlie, I don't know what all that Stan(Scott) stuff was up there, but I assure you that Stan and I are different people. You just don't get it! Just because someone is an experienced paver doesn't mean he is automatically qualified to administer a department with a multi-million dollar budget that is in charge of paving, drainage, building maintenance, the landfill, and street maintenance. As I stated in my letter to the Herald last year, in most cities it takes a team of professional people to accomplish that feat. You state that experience rivals education. That may be true, but why don't the citizens of Brownsville deserve someone, or some people with both an education and experience??? There is room for people like Mr. Torres in that organization. He is probably a valuable piece of the pie. But how can he do his magic as a paver when he is busy administering budgets, overseeing record keeping, administering personnel, and figuring out solutions to the many problems that plague Brownsville. That is in addition to understanding all the rules placed on us by the US Army Corp of Engineers (404 Permitting), the TCEQ (TPDES Phase II), and the many other requirements placed on the City by "big brother". He must be Superman.
The City has been taking this route for decades. Hire whoever from within because he is either a great employee or just simply a "yes man". If he is a great employee, then you lose that experienced employee because he is taken out of the field and burdened with management problems. Our streets and drainage have suffered too long on account of this practice.
Did you ever stop to think that when someone is so responsive to the needs of a commissioner, that maybe the day to day needs of the city are going unchecked. i.e. if he is fixing something everytime you say it needs fixing, when do the things that you don't know about get fixed? The correct response on behalf of the Director should be. We know about the problem, it is already scheduled for whenever. Not okay, pull the crew off another project and take care of the commissioner.
You all are citizens just like us. You are not there to tell the Department Directors what to do. Unless you are sitting at the commission podium on Tuesday night, you should have no more power than any other citizen. You are there to guide the City, n0t to try to manage its day to day affairs. That said, you shouldn't be paid a salary. You SHOULD be paid more than $10 per meeting though. And, you should be compensated for expenses related to City trips. You should be provided an office at city hall where you can receive and respond to messages. A laptop may be in order as well. You should be able to PURCHASE insurance through the City's insurance pool, but it shouldn't be provided at no cost to you or your family.
Come on Charlie. I thought you were part of the new generation of commissioners. The generation that was going to transform this City. So far, you are just re-inventing a wheel that doesn't turn very fast.

Scott Fry
Scott | 05.19.08 - 11:42 am | #

I wouldn't say that the current commissioners are unqualified. But if Commissioner Atkinson really used the words "shit" and "prick" in the comment above, with his name after it, I would say we have at least one very, very unprofessional commissioner.

Even if you consider this to be only an internet blog, and not a formal address, it's still a public forum and there are probably more people reading it than you suspect. Didn't BATB recently get recognized as a site that school students read? Isn't it likely that some of those students are reading this blog too?

Seriously, elected officials are supposed to above all of that nonsense. Commissioners are supposed to be held to a higher standard than the citizens they serve (though clearly some officials consider themselves superior to the citizens and entitled to special treatment--ie, Cris Valadez). Even if a citizen criticizes a commissioner or makes a comment that the he/she doesn't agree with, the elected official is supposed to be the bigger person and respond in a professional manner.

How disgraceful.

If you can't respond in a professional way, don't respond at all. Because in responding in a similar fashion, you simply lower yourself to the level of the other person. This should not have to be explained to a second-term commissioner.

That being said, I think Commissioner Troiani's comments were both insightful and professional.
Former BPUB employee | 05.19.08 - 11:53 am | #

CD,

Most people who run for office are doing so with the understanding that there is little or no compensation.

They also run with the knowledge that being so high profile has its' business advantages.

The Comssioners will benefit professionally on a number of levels. Real estate transactions, financing, advertisiing, etc. Their full time profession usually crisscrosses projects; knowing about new zoning rules or intitatives six to 12 months in advance of most people is a benefit.

They try to move the city forward and they are benefitting in the meantime.
Brownsville is no exception.

Mr. Troiani did answer one of the other main issues here. He said "The mayor and city commissioners are policy makers, not managers." .

I was watching a meeting a while ago when a grandstanding Commissioner was second guessing and ultimately trying to override a managers decsion; in public. This is not only not what we should expect from our elected leaers, but it was clearly outside the scope of what Mr. Troiani outlined.

Instead of trying to micromanage, we should expect some vision.


Kurgan

Oh... Did anyone catch a glimpse of the The Hidalgo County Regional Mobility Authority $643 million plan? They managed to spend over $100 million on a new bridge, and are pooling over 6 times that for a loop and traffic reconfiguration that benefits the entire area.

All in the same time that Brownsville won't get over the $21 million for BND.

Hmm..
kurgan | Homepage | 05.19.08 - 1:28 pm | #

Former BPUB Employee, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of Commissioner Atkinson. Perhaps if he weren’t so crass, he’d be taken seriously by his constituents. That’s the problem, and he can’t seem to realize that.

Yes, Commissioner, you are a college graduate, but you lack civility, professionalism and respect that are also pre-requisites for being a role model. You see, that’s what a public official ultimately becomes. Granted, you are a policy and decision-maker for the city, but the future of Brownsville looks up to you for guidance – the future being our children. I’m sure your own children look up to you, too. So, before you impulsively open you mouth at a City Commission meeting or type away at your keyboard allowing your emotions to dictate to you, take a deep breath. There’s no reason to come off as a utter donkey’s behind for folks to listen, as opposed to hear you.

Otherwise, shall I offer another solution?
Valley Political Junkie | Homepage | 05.19.08 - 2:27 pm | #

Bobby

How would you know that raising a child is simple. Had children have you?
PP | 05.19.08 - 10:56 pm | #

will punish all bad behavior in public officials,

I'd really like to hear more on this "punish" thing.

It seems to me that they are always on the lookout for a new reward, and the worst we can do is to attempt to punish them 4 years later. Now, if they do the typical government thing of buying votes with our own money at the last minute, it is very difficult to dispense the delayed justice that their shortsightedness and petty bickering so richly deserves.
The Merovingian | Homepage | 05.20.08 - 7:04 am | #

Scott,
Just because someone has an engineering degree doesn't mean that they know how to manage people. You said it yourself. How can an engineer do his/her thing if one is bogged down with administrative duties, discipline problems, managerial issues, etc. Lokk at Drainage district number one, you were there and now Carlos Ayala is there. He doesn't have a degree and took over your responsibilities. From what I hear from people over there is that he is doing great. I agree with with you that we need more qualified people in the city but you still havent proven your point about nedding five or six engineers to move the city forward. Carlos Lastra does his job well and is liked by the "raza" who work for him. A director needs to have more than just a degree, they need to manage people and gain the trust of employees. As far as writing in this blog, some of you need a reality check. It is not always the way you want them to be. My true contituents that are able to vote for me know that I have their best interests in mind. That is good enough for me. If you don't like the way I am, run for my spot in three years. If you live in my district then you would know that I am getting things done there. Of course we still have a lot of work to do regarding beautification of my district but that is coming. Too many haters in this blog but that is o.k. I'm here to answer questions and provide insight if I can. Cris Davis and I will probably never get along but I'm glad he is fair by letting me voice my opinion on his website. I hate controversy but when people make up lies and are misinformed, I will try to set the record straight.

Charlie Atkinson
Anonymous | 05.20.08 - 9:23 am | #

First comment - I have well over 100 nieces and nephews, grand nieces and nephews and great grand nieces and nephews - I can assure you through observation I have seen the difference between punishing bad behavior and rewarding bad behavior - Further, I did not mean raising a child is simple - it is hard - I was referring to the behavior issue - I think you knew that - but you had no retort so you went for the distraction.

Mer - yes there is a problem with punishing bad behavior as it happens - I hope the Charter Review Committee will make it easier to seek recall - recall has good and bad - but in the end it will be up to the people to decide.

What I want more than anything else is a proposition option in Texas - such as California has - yes it can lead to craziness, but the courts have proven again and again that when propositions lead to craziness they will step in and put a check on the process - such as it their job - hence Checks and Balances

I am 100% confident that if the people had a choice they would [1] vote to sell the Port, and [2] vote to end the UTB/TSC Partnership -
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.20.08 - 10:02 am | #

My apologies, Commissioner. My alternate solution link didn’t quite work. Here it is, click here.
Valley Political Junkie | Homepage | 05.20.08 - 10:11 am | #

BW,

You said- "What I want more than anything else is a proposition option in Texas - such as California has - yes it can lead to craziness"

I say - I agree. We elect people to represent us and ar almost never happy with the person or the policies.

Referendums take the personality out of the process and hold the voters much more accountable.

K
kurgan | Homepage | 05.20.08 - 2:16 pm | #

Mr. Atkinson:

Do you have those numbers on Pablo Kisel yet? The agreements with the developer?

If not, why not?
Stan | Homepage | 05.20.08 - 2:37 pm | #

Stan,

Did you speak during Public Comments? I watched most of the meeting but I switched back and forth from the CC meeting to primaries coverage.
Patricia A | 05.20.08 - 9:06 pm | #

First of all Stan, I'm not your secretary. I never got a formal request from you. Second, I advised you that I would meet with you if you called me. I left my phone number and you never called. By the way, we are working at getting that street done right. i agree with you that the developer screwed the city but my job is not to point fingers. My job is to get it done right. Is it a priority maybe but you need to hold the commissioner(s) in that district accountable. I push my streets getting done because my constiuents hold me accountable there.
charles Atkinson | 05.20.08 - 10:25 pm | #

Stan, I am choking from laughter
Bobby Wightman-Cervantes | 05.21.08 - 12:32 am | #

Charlie,
You are still not getting it. I feel like i am trying to explain the concept of color to someone who has been blind all their life. Everything is not fine. We are way behind every other city with 100k+ population. We don't have a city surveyor, we don't have a traffic engineer, we don't have a floodplain manager, we don't have a pavement management system, we don't have synchronized traffic signals, we don't have a way to quantify how much money or materials are being used on each public works project, we don't have smooth streets, we don't have clean drain ditches, we don't have good records management, our physical addresses on price road, alton gloor, and the expressway are all out of order, we don't have a quality control system for our in house paving, we don't have a streamlined permitting process, we don't have up to date development ordinances, we don't have a streamlined process for new subdivisions, we don't have a strong voice at txdot, hardly anyone knows how to use our GIS system, we don't have good coordination with the utility companies, we don't enforce our rights-of-way/easements, etc. Basically, we don't do what we are supposed to be doing. You don't know this, because you have never worked for a city. You're in customs. Imagine if you were working secondary and the guy on the front line kept on sending you people who should not have been sent to secondary while suspicious cars were allowed to drive on into the country. you would probably be frustrated. well, i work in public works, and i am frustrated. i pay taxes, and i feel like they are being wasted!! i am not trying to knock your public works director. he probably does good on some level. the problem is that the organization is missing an experienced executive level. your guy is a superintendent. we need EXECUTIVE oversight by professional engineers. ITS THE LAW. WE ARE IN TEXAS, U.S.A., remember? we are a nation of laws, and our city is breaking them while you are at the helm, and you are allowing it to happen. I am not trying to be adversarial toward you charlie. I just want our tax dollars spent well, and I feel that you can help the City.
Scott
Anonymous | 05.22.08 - 1:47 am | #

I am waiting for GTC to respond to Scott.

"we can agree to disagree"

There.
I responded for him.

El Coyote
El Coyote | 05.22.08 - 11:33 am | #

Or how about this response from GTC, "$10 per meeting isn't worth my time to try to get all of that sh*t done you pr*ck!"
Former BPUB employee | 05.22.08 - 5:59 pm | #

Since this discussion has moved from compensation to Public Works, I thought we should consider what other municipal/county governments are looking for in their staff.

www.govtjobs.com - Public Works and Engineering

Interesting how the catergories of public works and engineering are lumped together.
Patricia A | 05.22.08 - 7:56 pm | #

Ms. A.

I chose a Lunada Tuesday night. The poem I posted this morning resulted, so I consider the time to have been productive.

And, frankly, I think I've made a useful point, even if I haven't got the numbers out yet. The city is not run on anything like a professional basis and ends up putting people on the line where, at best, they're sometimes obfuscating to cover their tails, and, at worst, they are dishonest with citizens or, as Mr. Atkinson makes the example, they make personal and ad hominem attacks to shut people up.

Mr. Atkinson, no one ever claimed you should be anyone's secretary. My point was that the information should be available, but, since it wasn't available on an honestly made public information request, well, perhaps someone with pull could get it. Obviously I don't have pull. Or at least not yet. As far as I'm concerned, my requests for information are still alive. The City Secretary hasn't said go away.

I did look back and see your phone number on an invitation to talk to Bobby Wightman-Cervantes, but I didn't see an invitation to me. Maybe I'm too literal minded.
Stan | Homepage | 05.22.08 - 8:57 pm | #