Me too Frank!!
It's after midnight of 11/4, making it technically 11/5. As an unschooler, more generally, as an American, and most universally, as a human being, I am delighted to know that we've just elected President Obama!
Melissa, I'm the opposite! What you've just discovered about teacher union politics is something I've always know (professionally) and so I (personally) have always mistrusted the Democrats because of the NEA/AFT.
But now, in this election, the exclusionary politics of (racist yes, but also religious, class-based, anti-science, anti-intellectual etc) politics of home education dominionists -- who control our lobby like it or not -- are clearly, frighteningly of more direct concern to our freedoms than teacher union politics are with Obama, because he isn't beholden to them as past Dems have needed to be, to raise money. He is a very capable, very smart centrist in the mold of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor intellectually, imo -- not what does my radical ideology demand but what is sensible, defensible, workable, reasonable and practical, leading to better things rather than worse.
I am nonpartisan because I think party ideology is never the answer but a curse. And I'm sick to death of the fighting and the fear! There is no freedom issue that we can trust in neocon hands, including (home) education.
I think those specific thing are very racist, but it is the general tone that if you speak out about not voting for Obama you are racist that has me really bothered.
Now here is the thing. Up until a year ago I believed that the Democratic stance on education was based in fairness and altruism. Then there was a vicious voucher battle in my state (Utah) and the homeschoolers here were talking about it so I went and did some research.
It was a really murky issue, hard to decide who's estimates would end up being reality, etc. Then the National Education Association (NEA) pumped MILLIONS of dollars into defeating the proposition.
That is when I did research on the NEA. Guess what? The NEA (a teacher and school administrator union) heavily contributes to the democratic party at all levels. They are openly at war trying to get homeschool regulated or outlawed. They are active in trying to get compulsory education laws that start as young as 3 and go up to age 18.
Now, why is it that democrats at pretty much every level will not touch homeschooling with a 10 foot pole? There are a growing number of us who are secular and not homeschooling for religious reasons. I do not think we can afford to underestimate the power of the NEA or its political ties to the democratic party.
A little over a year ago I would have voted for Obama without thinking twice about it, but I see many things in the democratic platform that are sold as "making things fair and helping the underprivileged" that actually could end up affecting my ability to make decisions in the best interest of my family and my children.
I feel stewardship of children has to remain in the realm of parents unless individual parents prove they are unable to be responsible for said stewardship. When Hillary Clinton talks about it "taking a village" I shudder and feel like she is negating the place of parents and individuals close to a child. It takes parents and people close to a child to raise a village in the first place.
So though I feel public education is necessary, putting more money and younger children in to a system that by its nature cannot really nurture a child (teachers can barely touch children due to fear of being sued or accused of abuse) is not a great solution especially if you want compassionate, caring adults in the future.
Melissia
I always seem to be away when the best discussions happen on my blog! I've spent the last three days in San Francisco with my family and friends celebrating my 40th birthday. It was great.
Now I'm back in Sacramento at my mom's and I can't sleep because today is election day and I'm worried about the outcome. So I figured I'd get out of bed and catch up on blog comments.
JJ, I never saw "Time ti Kill." I'll have to rent it. That sounds like an amazing moment.
I didn't feel like the guy was saying anything against the naval academy, Sabrina. I thought the point was more the fact that Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude and McCain was pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum. As far as the smears against Palin, go there are only 7 items (out of 10) that were proven false on Snopes (which only checks on e-mails). I know a lot of false things have been said about Palin as well but I just think it's fishy that there are so many on Obama. And there's a similar feel to all of them so I just don't buy the fact that they're coming from random citizens.
Also, I was just looking at "Closing Arguments" on factcheck.org for both McCain and Obama for Obama they point out that it's unlikely his health plan will work without raising taxes (as he promises) and also that he probably won't be able to keep s many jobs from going overseas as he says he will. But the McCain "Closing Arguments" article debunks new claims about Obama's ties to terrorists among other things. I feel like McCain's following some really bad advice during this election. And it's not "maverick" advice either. It's the same old smear campaign that we saw in the last Presidential election--it surprised me coming from John McCain, though.
I don't mind Obama's education plan, Larry, because for the system we have in place I think it works. Also, I read a bit of your blog and must admit (though you can probably tell!) I'm one of those people that just loves Obama. I don't love his views on gay marriage and I'm sure 'll find other problems with him (especially if he wins) but for the first time in my life I'm really excited about a Presidential candidate.
Melissia, I would be irritated too if I were in your shoes. But in some cases I think it IS about racism. Being against Obama for his politics is one thing but when I hear things about connections with terrorists and "he's not Christian" I just think that smacks of racism. My good friend forwarded me an e-mail from some random woman saying she didn't trust Obama because he had Pakistani room mates in college and he visited Iran and she couldn't imagine where he got all his money from. (You can find it on snopes under "Where did Obama's money come from?") I thought the letter was racist and told my friend now my friend is mad at me. But it's totally racist! I just don't get it. Actually, if you, or somebody could explain how those accusations are not racist you may help to save my fri
i also had an intelligent friend tell me that obama was a muslim .. and wouldn't produce his birth certificate. sigh. it's good to get the truth out. evidently it needs to be repeated, a lot.
Great post. Awesome discussion. As far as the education isssue, most kids will never have the opportunity to be unschooled. Obama wants to ensure that all children are provided with the education that they deserve, regardless of their income. Our gov't. can and should ensure that.
This made me so happy to read! Sometimes I feel like I'm all alone in a sea of racists! In our local paper today there was a letter to the editor claiming "You can't be a Christian and vote for Obama." UGH!!!!!!!!! If hypocrites were dollars we wouldn't be in the economic state we are in!
More truth here, Kentucky girl Molly Green on "Real America" -- it's not the fairy tale.
I'll admit that as a Kentuckian at Yale, I have embraced, defended, exaggerated and exploited my roots to construct an appealing persona.
. . .I can play this game. But it's not nearly as pretty when you play it right. My state is beautiful and it is troubled. Some of our quintessential country girls in cut-off denim are 15, scared and pregnant. Some of our hard workin' men are making and selling meth. Some of our small town doctors are writing prescriptions for huge amounts of painkillers. Nearly a million of us function at low literacy levels. We're Americans.
The conception of "real" America that McCain and Palin are putting forth is . . . is inherently exclusionary. . . an imaginary, iconic small town in an imaginary, iconic state.
In Real America (a white, Christian town) families are done just right, with one man and one woman. There are no single mothers or single fathers. Women always want babies, and they're always ready to take care of them. Men are the breadwinners, and they all do hard, physical labor. These men belong on the covers of romance novels -- sweaty, hairy -- chested and tan, tight jeans, wrench in hand.
Real Americans have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, but they didn't go to Harvard and get uppity. They've pulled themselves up -- just not too far.
In Real America there is no rape, incest, domestic violence, school violence, threat to the "mothers health." Joe Sixpack never has a few too many.
. . .By emphasizing their support for this fictionalized America and posing as the friend of the working man, rich Republicans are making themselves feel good, and wooing those voters who prefer Real America to reality.
But it's very easy to pay campaign homage to Joe the Plumber. It's a lot more difficult to confront real problems in "real" America.
Most of these distasteful issues are not even blips on the Republican ticket's radar - as evidenced most recently by McCain's awkward stumbling when asked about birth control.
So if you want to talk about Real America, then let's get real. Illiteracy is real. Addiction is real. Unsafe coal mines that still get away with murder are real. Racial bigotry is real.
And you [John McCain] can't say "No ma'am, he's not an Arab, he's a good family man," as if those two descriptions were in opposition. We have serious problems that aren't glamorous or pleasant. If you're gonna support the working class, you're gonna have to get a little dirty.
If you want to play this game Sarah Palin, alright, let's play. But do it right. I'm sure Miss Kentucky can out-real you.
Also I should add that my kids are 18 (in college for two years already with a boyfriend working fulltime and 23) and then a 13-year-old who loves Monty Python and Jon Stewart. A six-year-old is a WHOLE different thing! 
Oh, Melissa, I apologize to YOU if it seemed my comments and links were directed at arguing you into a certain candidate or suggesting anything about your parenting, etc. I only meant to pick up on the issue of how "education" figures into this campaign, and particularly unschooling, offer some writing that would appeal no matter what one's politics and maybe something off the beaten campaign trail for us moms -- and then suggest we all were intelligent, good parents longing for civil discourse and collaborating rather than name-calling etc.
I didn't mean to make it worse.
I apologize for venting in a fashion earlier. I am responsible for my tone in internet dialogue and I was feeing pretty frustrated.
I just have a few things to say overall though.
I agree Sarah Palin has no idea what she is talking about. Was the response directed towards me or her? I am quite honestly less political informed and more politically skeptical and would not mind a specific you are wrong and here is why. I feel that none of your response really addressed my reasons for not voting for Obama or MCcain.
I do not feel that being politically skeptical makes me hateful. I would never put an effigy of anyone in a noose nor do I find doing so funny.
We talk about the election with our 6 year old and mostly we keep our opinion out of it. She needs to be given the chance to form her own opinion about politics. She is a bit young to understand the whole thing. When she is interested we will do our best to help her get the information she needs to make her own decisions. Funny enough, she asked about the origins of humanity and we explained both evolution and creationism to her and although we are both decidedly evolution in belief she has informed us she currently believes in creationism.
Having a law degree does not make a person a leader. That was my point. Not that one is easy to come by or sold in a vending machine.
I personally do not follow an authoritarian parenting style nor do I believe in corporal punishment or capital punishment for that matter. That is why up until last year I was an unquestioning democrat across the board. But there are other issues that matter to me. Namely, the growing size and power of the federal government, the growing deficit we are handing over to our kids, our right to homeschool and make decisions in the best interest of our families. There are more but this is not my soapbox so I will stop.
Both candidates feel politically radical to me. Neither represents me and the philosophies I live my life by, that was my point.
Out of the two I distrust Obama less. In the state I live in it does not even matter how I vote- Mccain will win my state. But I am not certain that I feel any sort of comfort in voting for either of them.
So in summary I feel like a lot of Obama supporters are saying "If you do not support Obama you are racist", "If you do not vote for Obama you are anti-choice", "Having a law degree makes Obama qualified to lead our country" and "If you make under $250,000 Obama will not raise your taxes" but some of these statements are not true and are offensive to me and do not address my specific concerns about having Obama as president, especially when you figure in to the mix retiring judiciaries, and a democratic majority in the House and Senate.
Melissia
Can't resist posting it here as explanation -- here's the last part of the McGowan post I linked, on why educated intelligence matters so much in politics, because how else can we actually accomplish our intended results??
"By shooting off her mouth about things she knows little about, she achieves the opposite of her intended result.
This fits into a larger pattern — a world and worldview in which this kind of inside-out thinking is a way of life.
In the religiously conservative world Palin inhabits, you can be opposed to teen pregnancy, then advocate abstinence-only sex ed, which increases rates of teen pregnancy.
You can oppose antisocial behaviors in children, then advocate corporal punishment, which has been shown to increase antisocial behaviors in children.
You can decry immorality in children, then advocate a commandment-based authoritarian moral education, which reseach has shown to “actually interfere with moral development” (Nucci, et al.) more than any other approach.
Now imagine instead a person who wants all the same things — meaningful and useful science, a reduction in teen pregnancy, and kids who are well-behaved and moral — but goes beyond what “seems” right to find out what we’ve actually learned, through careful research, about genetics, teen pregnancy, and moral development.
Then vote for that person."
Responding to Melissa's comments - intelligent, educated people can make a well-reasoned, principled and high-minded argument for either ticket or even neither ticket. I can do it all by myself, for all of the above!
And I generally do, before I make important decisions. I don't start from loyalties and grudges and ideology or what the preachers or teachers or neighbors or newspapers tell me I should do.
That's what well-educated intelligence is, imo, and what I've dedicated by own life to helping my children create through unschooling.
We've been discussing elsewhere how this whole election is a rich unschooling opportunity for our kids, and I don't mean school subjects!
. . .what all us teachers and moms are modeling for children will determine the future of the world! [Let's] hope that it's real family and human values then, and fear any teacher/mom pouring hate speech into innocent young heads. If we wouldn't let our kids say it, then it has no place in political discourse. . ."
Melissa might also appreciate this thoughtful post at Blog Her:
Hanging effigies wrong whether it is Sarah Palin or Barack Obama
And about the education credentials of the candidates as something unschoolers should value or not, I recommend this personal power of story from Parenting Beyond Belief author Dale McGowan.
Maybe because I've worked professionally in legislative and public policy campaigns but also have been through the dissertation process myself, I know the differences -- how doctoral study (and law school) will hone thinking and research skills so far beyond the sophist "fighting" of political campaigns with the brute weaponry of tricks and lies and smears and money. One can hardly hold them both in mind at the same time without one's head exploding!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to educate others, as you did so well with this post. The more I immerse myself in the progressive movement and the Obama campaign, the better I understand Barack Obama's words: "We are the ones we've been waiting for." It's like Dorothy and the ruby shoes: we have always had the power within us to participate in our democracy and make our voices heard; we just haven't used that power until now.
THANK YOU, Colleen.
I will be really happy when this election is over. I am very tired of being called racist in a roundabout way because I do not support Obama and I am tired of being treated like I have not based my decision on fact and policy instead of lies.
The truth is Mccain has been around awhile as has Biden. People know who they are and there is very little people do not already know about them. As for Obama and Palin, they are new on the scene and I bet you would find the same number of lies on Palin as Obama. It is not necessarily generated by either campaign but by the public at large.
I will not vote for either Obama or Mccain and pretend that they are 1- worthy leaders or 2- vying for the office to serve the people. As George Carlin put it, Washington was bought and paid for a long time ago and the election is just a show to make us believe that we still actually have a choice.
I find it interesting that unschoolers support Obama. His policies are very control and government intervention in orientation. Not to mention the push for 0-5 education, like we need even younger children in the mediocre public school system.
Additionally, pulling out their school records and saying that the candidates secondary eduction qualifies them to be the president is sort of pandering to a system most unschoolers do not believe in. Do we as unschoolers believe the system makes a person qualified (by grades an so forth) or do we believe the system is a bunch of hoops people jump through to earn a piece of paper that may not qualify them for anything? Sorry, you got me started. So in Summary, I am in my opinion intelligent, not racist, and basing my decision on fact and I still DO NOT support Obama.
One more thing, Roe V Wade has been around a long time. It has survived many a republican presidency. Additionally, the house and senate at this moment are democrat controlled and it seems there may be a shift towards even more democrats in many of the seats. Any judge would have to go through a democrat controlled house and senate to be sworn in to the supreme court- therefore I think the abortion issue is a scare tactic just like many of the ones being used by both sides to get people to vote one way or the other. I am pro-choice and not afraid of the end of Roe V Wade.
Melissia
On the topic of education Obama does have a position and it sound pretty grim to me as an unschooling grandpa:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/
i...onFactSheet.pdf
I wrote a bit about it:
http://larry-devich.blogspot.com...-for-
obama.html
I am not voting for either of these guys.
Over 20,000 people a year apply to the Naval Academy! It is a GREAT school to graduate from!
As for the lies, they have both been flying. There are a GREAT MANY things that have not been answered honestly, by both Palin and Obama. I am not worried about the election. Obama has already won IMO. I worry about the presidency and if Obama will be able to do all the things he wants, and our country needs. I fear he will be stonewalled at every turn.
Weird, Favorite Daughter and I were just talking tonight about the end of "A Time to Kill" when Matthew McConaughey, when he gets the jury to close their eyes and picture the whole story of the crime and then says, "Now imagine she was white." It was in the context of trying to find ways to reach conservatives we each know who seem SO irrational and afraid and angry, and just closed off in all directions to this historic crossroads and wonderful opportunity to change our politics and the whole world.
And then I saw this! Talk about that teachable moment, the 80-20 piece is just perfect. Thanks for posting it.
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