Brazil r/s V2 Field Guide
WOW. This is a pretty straight talking 'comparision'. I was wondering myself having read the original article, why are they comparing Vray and Brazil in a review. When critics review movies, books, etc., they base their review on the substance of said movie, book, etc. Comparisons come later.
I would really like to see 3d world 'redo' a review based on what Brazil 2 offers over its predecessor and why or why not you should look into it based on what Brazil 2 has to offer overall.
Other 3rd party renderers should be left out, unless 3d World wants to do a blanket comparison of 4 of the major players. Anyone up for a Brazil, Vray, Maxwell, finalRender comparison article? At least that way we could see an apples to oranges to bananas to donkeys comparison. (Yes I mean FR as the donkey. Have you ever tried to get that thing moving?)
Fantastic!
Thanks to 3DW for their article and the authors for the files and for creating this oppourtunity for the Splutterfish crew to call bullshit! These test times show the truth, Brazil really Rocks! From day one this talented and dedicated team have been taking crap from idiots far and wide, Unjustified and unproven! This article was the perfect forum for the kind of retaliation that I would expect from a class act like Splutterfish, a clean, succinct, fact based, non fiction response to a review/comparison piece based on bad settings and poor usage, (akin to using the bugatti veryon to pull a plough!) to demonstrate just where the truth lies in B2's performance, Bravo!
Look at it this way, if it really means that much to you as an artist and it should as you can only expect to get superior performance from superior tools, you should quit the flame wars and the fanboy bullshit and get a copy of B2, read the manual, and get yourself to the next level of performance and quality. Because your competition already has! 
lol, be afraid! be very afraid!!!
Brazil always was slow and overpriced, I thought splutterfish is smart enough to market 2.0 in terms of quality, production proven etc.
>Brazil is faster than V-Ray on interiors!
Lol, for the matter of justice you should not compare *your* time to the time of the scene from 3d world. There is no need to explain that it looks like they have no idea what they are talking about.
Also, nowadays it's more about final image quality and aesthetic side of the picture.
I would like to see at least mediocre quality archviz. images in your gallery. Because from the 2.0 beta times till now - your gallery looks downward.
And, you should understand that it will be really hard to break settled (because of 1.2) opinions that Brazil doesn't suit arch viz. needs. Is that really what you need?
3D World? what's that? did they need to public that poor page to sell more copies? There's a good reason i've never read! If they showed a cook receipt they would have a better spot.
Apples with apples first of all.
Then, when you make a review you have to know in depth what you are reviewing.
At last, if you make a review, you have to talk about the subject of your article, not about the weather, climate, fruit or what you like more...
I always used Brazil v1 for everything but since i started with B2, i never returned to b1: in fact b2 is faster, much much faster and i like above all its fast and smooth glossy r&rs.
Then i've never used Vray and so i can't point out any differences because i ignore how it works. My rule is: talk about what you know, then listen.
It seems today people talk about everything, even about what they don't know, just for money...
yes, komatic, i'm afraid! you scared me.
The think is, brazil never was an arch oriented render, but it's not mean couse it bad, just one reason, b1 was freaky slow in interior renderings, b2 much-much faster, as about arch images in galery, i gues it's a matter of time. Don't forget vray arch oriented render and polish this direction in years already.
Bottom line is this and its simple, brazil is a higher quality renderer it renders everything from interiors to movie quality pictures, you have a monster here and on the other side you've got a mass sellin quik and cheap vray renderer for the masses how can you compare a renderer thats given all users the quality they've been waiting for which took far more time in polishing and development and finaly produced a solid software than any other commercial renderer out there.. if you name what are the 3 best renderers in the world i'd say renderman brazil and lastly mental ray, coming back to the vray / brazil comparison i'd say splutterfish guys know what they are talkin about and as a heavy user of brazil and a frequent user of vray as well as final render and mental ray i say they are right.
even if you bring on the fastest rendered image out of vray i still wouldn't sacrifice the quality brazil gives over it for a difference of a few seconds of rendertime, at the end of the day its quality over quantity and brazil delivers on all ends while vray lags, simple .
'In this case, it looks like the vray image isnt reflecting anything, might just bea specular highlight'
You instantly lost all credibility with that like and make yourself sound like a moron.
There are so many different settings when it comes to architectural renderings.
It's hard to discern which is 'faster' depending on how he setup his Vray scene.
Does he use linear workflow with Vray?
Does he use standard materials versus vraymaterials within the scene (this could add minutes to a rendering)?
What kind of light is he using? What is his global subdivisions for individual materials? Is he using raytrace mats?
What are his rendering settings?
What is his overall proficiency of Vray as well as Brazil?
Without posting his modified Vray scene for our review as well as a Brazil one side by side for the experts to take a look at and optimize, his conclusions are completely unfounded and biased.
your tweaked brazil scene is faster then the worse vray scene from 3d world.
what make you believe that these guys have no clue about brazil but know vray?
i bet that a vray artist can easily setup a faster scene then the guys from 3d world.
vray IS faster for interiors as brazil. period.
vray irradiance + lightcache is the way to go for architects.
brazil is good for production design and movie stuff.
btw: i work with both render engines.
oh and one more word to the SF guys.
VRAY is such a famous renderer (i don
´t know a single architect who works with 3dmax and does not own a vray copy) BECAUSE everyone can TEST it without going through some "give us our phonenummber etc. for a demo" bullshit.
even the warez versions have helped vray to become the number one selling renderer for 3dmax.
students LEARN before they BUY.
making it harder for them to really test a product while leraning will not help selling the software.
they will buy what they are familiar with. that is a fact most companys forget.
it is clear that you need a protection to make people "feel" they are doing something wrong when using warez.
but getting your hands on a brazil version to test is to complicated for the fast times we live in.
thats why vray is the commercial winner.... not such stupid render previews.
What! Vray is better and more famous because more people have an illegal copy! What! What! do my eyes decieve me, your actually complaining that SF have a legitimate method for supplying interested parties with a fully functioning full featured demo, with an FM account and access to real help if and when they need it over the fact that an ILLEGAL copy of Vray which has been passed around like a free crack pipe in prison is up for grabs to anyone without a consience. What kind of an asshat are you. WAREZ ARE THEFT! wether its brazil or Vray, YOU ARE PART OF THE DISEASE NOT THE CURE! I Wonder really just how the chaos group feels about that? I bet comments like yours make Vlado cry into his beer!, I wonder really what the numbers are, 10 illegal copies for 1 legit, higher maybe? 20:1 that is money being STOLEN from the developers that work hard to produce a product that enables you to earn a living, sure its a white collar crime, but you may as well be mugging a senior citizen. and i really wonder how many crack/warez users actually go onto buy a legit copy.... or just wait for the next crack. when something is so readily available to be pillaged, it has no conceivable value... so it keeps on getting fucked!
That does not make Vray a commercial winner, its makes it the most famous looser, if indeed Vray is your product of choice then you have just condoned the fact that it is famous for being the cheapest Whore on the block, with some nasty tricks up its torn dress, and pimped out by all and sundry.
G~F
who is using brazil anyway?
a few studios.... but the big bucks are where the most copys are sold.
and i bet my ass that there are more architects who are using vray then studios who are doing clips or full movies.
so i guess that vray has outsold brazil by a huge amount.
i don
´t know much brazil user but many many vray user.
and they have choosen vray because they could test it and it does what they need.
i have not seen a brazil testversion on the net that i can simply download and test.
so i guess they dont need my money
Im sitting in a large Archviz company and been doing that for a while.
Before I came they used vray and boy did I see some problems on the pipe.
I introduced brazil and instantly got all animation jobs to grind on brazil.
Ive had to save the vray guys not a few times when for no reason their scenes kept crashing over and over again, converting to brazil and render them out for them with brazil.
I see their render times and renders and compare them with mine, and i can match all of it. We got another guy on brazil now, and soon we will be out of vray, because its just not suitable for the work we do.
I can read just fine , and making the statement that V-ray is more famous because it has been cracked and is available from any warez site for free is just illustrating how poorly protected it is, Getting a copy of Brazil is not complicated a demo is freely available, which will suffice most learning experiences, if you want more, simply contact SF and get setup with the latest package and FM account, easy.
http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/W.../WebContent/
Rio the preceding is a website address, its on the internet. scroll down a little for the download links.
Stone the crows' is that a free Brazil test version that you can simply download and test, WOW!
FYI There will soon be a B2 ver, that you can also download for free and test
What's the matter? you said what you said, you should expect a reply, I replied to your statements, I can Read, and i do use my Brain, Cheap and snide remarks don't make you seem any more intellectual, as you throw out knee jerk reactions to comments being made about your previous statements.
G~F
FYI for everyone:
Banned IP Addresses
84.132.211.205
84.132.232.173
84.132.211.180
84.132.200.108
That's the entire list of banned IP's since this blog started. The last one is jan/hamada from today (yeah, same guy talking to himself in the blog comments). The poor guy's on dialup -- i'd be cranky too
I may delete the hamada post because it's the same blather posted as "jan" earlier. I'm leaving most of it up for now as jan's just reinforcing Helo's point.komatic - totally agree with you. Quality is paramount and it's still the big part of what Brazil is about. What was so unfair about the article is that the quality differences were so obvious but no one would ever see that unless they actually went and downloaded the files. The Gallery: yeah, maybe. We don't solicit imagery and go through all the work we used to to get imagery -- everything is just submitted via the web now, so it's all voluntary. thnx for the comments.
Neil - you attack my credibility by saying I "lost all credibility" and stealthily avoided actually answering why that "reflection" (or whatever the fuck that non-physical, not-reflecting but sharply reflecting, and somehow nice and smooth but weirdly bumpy tabletop) is supposed to be. You win sir -- I am duely beaten by your rapier wit!
Charles -- "Without posting his modified Vray scene for our review" -- as far as I know, that is the scene posted in that 3d world blog post. Prior to writing this, there was several vray (not brazil) users that did look at, and worked with the vray scene, but it really looked like there wasn't much they could do without adversely changing the look and quality of the output.
jan -- "i bet that a vray artist can easily setup a faster scene" -- less talky, more rendery. -- do it. (and btw, contrary to his claim, jan *doesn't* use b2).
Let's not feed the troll anymore, ok?
The big point here, regardless of the 3d world author's level of expertise with either renderer, is that b2 is way way faster then people generally think it is, or give it credit for. I have no doubt that a real good vray artist with a good eye can probably speed up the vray scene too, but this whole meme that brazil isn't good for architecture is and always has been a myth -- and with b2, there's new tools that are really going to empower people doing this type of work. These are good things
I'm not trying to say one is better over the other. I don't know Brazil at all so I couldn't give an objective opinion as to which one is faster per quality.
I'd test this project out myself on one machine - IF I knew Brazil, however I don't.
But I think if the scene was put in proper/knowledgable hands of someone that knows both renderers inside and out, your results would be a lot different.
""Without posting his modified Vray scene for our review" " - I am talking about YOUR version - not the one up on the 3D World website. I'd mostly be interested to see what mistakes you have made in coming to your conclusion.
Charles:
"But I think if the scene was put in proper/knowledgable hands of someone that knows both renderers inside and out, your results would be a lot different." -- I totally agree with you.
"I am talking about YOUR version" -- we didn't do a modified vray version.
"what make you believe that these guys have no clue about brazil but know vray?"
For the curios: the author himself tells that in the article: "At Uniform (www.uniform.net), our workflow mainly utilises V-Ray, so we were interested to see how Brazil r/s 2.0 would compare."
Hello all,
Just to give a few comments on this "comparison". first of all i would talk about the pro's of the newest version without comparing it to other renders.
Second and more important is that these test proberly can be made so brazil looks worse then vray....
Its all about knowing and understanding both renders before you can do a reasonable test. vray can be setup in many ways (and proberly brazil as well). i'm not saying brazil or vray is better. but more that these test prove no that much.
hi, very interesting opinions here, there is always a little war between all the rendering solution we have to use, MR, Vray, Brazil, Maxwell, Fry render, Turtle, Renderman... So i think the best choice we have to do is the renderer we use the better for our jobs... For this interior brazil seems to be faster but as they say, they use the same parameter beween the 2 renderer, approximatively... Brazil must be faster for animaiton ( i suppose) than Vray but for interior i can't trust this... AS exterior also... Vray have a community with ton's of shadrs available for free, a lot of tutorials... And also... Proxy... Maybe Mr could do this thing in the next 3Dsmax but now, only Vray could render our scene with Millions of polygons for exteriors (proxy isn't instance... nothing to compare this), displacement and co... And distribute rendering is very efficient...
So i swear the other renderer learn more about that and it's not a shame to copy a concurent xhen he have great ideas... As long we have the choice as long we are winner...
(sorry for the poor english)
[ed. off topic and flaimbait - sorry]
They are all tools - it's YOU that makes the difference. Familiarity and thorough testing will yield better results in less time from any engine.
Hi, I
´d been using Vray fo ages now, but I allways knew brazil was a great renderer, I never used it for 2 main reasons, speed & lack of tutorials, mainly I use vray for arcb Visualization, brazil for never good in this area...
[ed. ad hominem -- buh bye]
Just downloaded and rendered the tweaked b2 scene. If you check "store direct hits" you'll gain a few seconds without quality loss.
short comment on jan's remark about the warez... What do you think was the main reason that vray raised their prices???
3dworld is one biased magazine the people who place the adds always get great reviews and plenty of tutorials for their software. If you were to believe 3d world reviews you would all own a firegl because apparently they are the best. Anything written in the pages of 3dworld should be greatly scrutinized.
Best regards
Pe
What I am most impressed about with Brazil 2 is the speed of the (raytraced) 3D motion blur. I have been using mental ray with maya and mr standalone, and the motion blur is almost unusable; it' prohibitively slow to the point I have to revert to the rasterizer hack.
B2 motion blur is very reasonable and smooth in comparison with default settings in many cases.
therealpepe:
I think I've gotta disagree with you -- at least with the breadth of your accusations against 3d world. SplutterFish has never bought advertising in 3d world and in our experience they've always been really cool, fair, and honest about brazil. Even this "review," overall, really makes b2 sound awesome.
The problem is just the extent to which the review focused on the rendertime of this one scene (once in the masthead, twice in the body, including the conclusion, and once in the sidebar), came to a very hasty and misleading decision regarding performance, and went to press without diligently fact-checking that conclusion.
They can run things to press however they want, but we have the right to defend ourselves against such damaging statements, and I think we have an obligation to do so for our clients, our friends, and the community at large.
As I said in the original post, this review wasn't a hit-piece against brazil and I don't want the message from this to be a hit-piece against 3d world. 3dw has been a great contributor to this community for a long time -- I have respect for that and I like them and what they do. I'm far more interested in just correcting this one wrong, and using it to elevate the whole discussion about renderers, performance, and comparisons in general.
So... back to the topic at hand... which was.. ummm... oh yeah -- b2 rocks!
there's no need to compare Vray and Brazil - Brazil has since the beginning the better Image Quality ....
I like speed, really, but not for the cost of Quality.
fire3d
I'm really excited about the GI improvements in B2, and looking forward to using it more. I hope this blog gets more people interested in trying it out as well! I know several companies that have switched from VRay to Brazil because of the stability and speed
well if quality is the most important you're looking for than use an unbiased renderer like maxwell. you'll get quality for sure (for the cost of speed).
Weird...
Spend the time doing rendering for Arch-viz or VFX, and not trolling around hating, of all things, a raytracer. Not only will you feel better, you'll make money at it.
I've tried Vray and use Brazil, and neither one is slow (compared to many of the alternatives) nor is either one hard to use (compared to the alternatives). And they both sell at a pricepoint where it's perfectly fine for you to buy both and get all the raytracing you can eat.
I understand why people argue about religion or politics or even high performance cars. But why argue over a couple of thousand dollars worth of raytracers? It's raytracing for goodness sake.
don -- yeah, but the big caveat, to my thinking, (besides the speed) is the loss of flexibility. You're *stuck* with imagery that's defined by the scope of the rendering algorithm. In the case of maxwell, it's a pretty nice set of physically-based algorithms, and thus the scope ends up being "photo-real." (Unbiased doesn't automatically mean "physically correct," "photo-real," or even "correct.") You can't really get too stylized or really "hack" the scene to get a specific look -- a look that might be being demanded by the client.
But yeah -- in maxwell, you're dealing with a lighting simulator, so if you've got the skills to light photographically, you get a really nice result without being bothered by all that annoying speed
/me runs
(just kidding)
I use both. I dunno too much of 3d. I use maz like a hobby. I`ll say the truth, all pirated soft. I dont earn moneywith 3d, just for fun. I always used BRAZIL, dunno why, the images produced are reallistic, sometime you cant differ if is real or fake. The only thing that close me to vray was curious. If i can get hand to B2, i will keep stick to Brazil. The guys at SF rocks! The only thing I agree here is: you need to know how to use a renderer to talk about that renderer.
I`ll keep waiting for B2, to having fun in an intelligent way!
Commenting by HaloScan
