thanks Brittni.
so far we have a short list of folks who are interested. really thought there were more artists in Jax who would be interested in showing?
Am I wrong?
Thanks for the plug.
I know they ARE out there...I guess we have to find them.
Interesting approach. What do you mean by contemporary art? I think that maybe it is time to read a book or two or a few magazines if you want to be involved in the larger art world. Remember, nobody really gives a shit about Local Jacksonville Art. Without an intellectual component you would be laughed out of Atlanta, LA, Chicago, Miami or anywhere. Why not focus on bringing in some people and ideas that are not bound tightly by your on sphincter. "Contemporary" as it refers to art is temporal, not limited
to subject matter and style. "Funky-dunky-pseudo-hipster-derivative"
is a style (apparently a movement).
Without someone who matters, on a national or international level, looking at what you do, you become
just a few more pieces of flotsam and
jetsam in the backwaters of the
international art scene. Just be aware that posting sentences like
"The landscapes, palm trees, and fish
paintings have had their day in the sun." doesn't really do your cause any good.
jim- I appreciate your vantage point and thank you for commenting here. its nice to hear from an established artists such as your self.
that said, i think perhaps you are misunderstanding what this site and others like it are trying to do for Jacksonville. While I agree that dissing groups of people is probably not the best way to go about things, i am troubled by your comment about having to be vailidated by someone on a national or international level.
I think we all understand that there must be an intellectual component to our work.
there is a good group of artists around here who are interested in making things better here in jacksonville (the place that they live) and maybe one day someone will "give a shit" about what's going on in jacksonville as far as art is concerned.
roger Brittni,
Noone needs to validate what's going on here.
Maybe it wasn't a good idea to blanket statement that type of work but it is the usual subject matter for art here since I can remember.
Why have artists continued to investigate these types of subject matters when contemporary art leaves it wide open.
Why would someone like Jim decide to comment on this blog or any blog only when someone decides to diss palm tree paintings when we've been thirsting for people like him to give us input for sometime now?
Why aren't we all working on this together? If you feel you have a great grasp of what is going on in the internatinoal art scene then why are you not sharing it with the rest of us?
Sorry if I was a little too strong on this, but it all boils down to conversation. What we have to do is
to set up venues in which there is an open forum so that there is a free exchange of ideas. I am no guru of the
international art scene, by any means, but am connected to various artists,
art writers, art historians, and critics
who work within the larger art world.
I would be delighted to share that information with anyone as always. But,
be good to yourselves and be careful of what you say because nobody will take you seriously. Let's keep talking. jd
The reasons for establishing a strong local scene and working within that are many. One, artists need a community base from which to develop. Space, time and dialog around the work that help to bring it to the level to participate in the larger contexts. Look at the resumes of all the artists invite to show at MocaJax and one would see a strong involvement in their local incubators. Also, the internet is rapidly dissolving traditional barriers of location. Artists in Atlanta, Pittsburg, and Detroit are known widely and showing in LA, NY, and Europe. We are not at that level yet, but is would be foolish to think that is impossible. I also think the Miami art fairs are having a broader affect on the entire state in terms of influence.
In addition to all that we have a Contemporary Art Museum with ( i assume) ambition to grow and be a major player in the discourse. It may not be the museum's job to support local art in any direct way (although more and more museums are taking that role i am finding out), but it certainly is in everyone's interest to create a more dynamic scene with prominent schools, galleries, alt spaces, etc.
Not to be blunt but are you saying if I say that the subject matter of palm trees, fish, and landscapes has had their day in the sun and it's time for something new, then nonone will take me seriously?
I believe that statement has a lot of truth to it.
I'm sorry you took it personal but in order to push the envelope there needs to be an awareness and education of the Jacksonville public concerned with contemporary art. By seeing the same thing over and over it's not going to happen.
You do have a valid point though. If the uber cool hipster street art movement was replaced the palm trees, fish, and landscapes would Jacksonville be any better off?
I'm not sure it would.
In my mind art should make people think. If it's doesn't it's a waste of my space. Replacing one collectively cool and accepted genre by another is just continuing the same closed mindedness that we need to be escaping.
really stoked to see you on the blogospher Jim.
i second Jim's call for open discussion. I dont think anyone would find benefit in excluding any person or group. This aint no cool kid club.
Jim, I remember that original post form Byron and my take on it at the time was to define some sort of way forward beyond what has been the predominant mode of late. And in fact it brought to my mind art we would mostly see in St Augustine. Remember Wynn Bone gallery out there? I always thought it a shame that that venue failed when so many of those kitchy spots survive. And maybe that is fine for that particular location, but Wynn was trying to do something different as are many of us. I personally would not want our efforts to suffer the same fate as Wynn Bone gallery.
Jim we already have venues set up
just for this type of thing.
Here at CJ
and at www.JaxCAL.org.
They are perfect places for these types of discussions and were set up just for this reason.
I don't know why the more establishhed artists have decided not to participate. I do believe a lot of the converstaions are MATURE and are very SERIOUS.
And I do think a lot of us know exactly what's going on in contemporary art and if we aren't taken seriously now we soon will be.
I would agree with Jim that contemporary art is not determined to any certain subject matter or style. Any of these subjects including "street" styles can be approached in new ways that redefine the prior forms. In fact I would like to propose a show called "landscape" which broadly defines the term.
I'm not saying the use of that subject matter isn't contemporary but if you can use that subject matter in a NEW way then you are on it.
It was a blanket statement to describe the general type of subject matter in Jacksonville.
Obviously you can use fish, landscapes, and palm trees in any way you want but if it is not NEW then it's not contemporary. It's all vague and no one can really define it.
I'm tired of seeing the same old subject matter here myself. Regardless of how much you want try and over intellectualize it .
There's a time when you have to quit making the typical Florida art and make art that is in parallel with the zeitgeist of contemporary culture if you want to be considered a contemporary artist. Otherwise I feel artists are just reinforcing the same sedentary thought patterns that my Jacksonville has become synonymous for.
I am with you 100% Byron. In essence we are talking about different art worlds. One can find "typical Florida art" in NYC galleries that are different from the contemporary art world we are trying to address. Again, I took your original post as a way of trying to define (or find some degree of consensus on) "contemporary art" by using its "other" art world context as antonym.
Sorry if I was a little too strong on this, but it all boils down to conversation. What we have to do is
to set up venues in which there is an open forum so that there is a free exchange of ideas. I am no guru of the
international art scene, by any means, but am connected to various artists,
art writers, art historians, and critics
who work within the larger art world.
I would be delighted to share that information with anyone as always. But,
be good to yourselves and be careful of what you say because nobody will take you seriously. Let's keep talking.
Of course you want validation, that is
why everyone keeps wanting to show.
Each artist wants validation and then
you want your scene validated.
But you have to pay dues, we all do.
It takes reading, working, learning
seeing all day everyday.
jd
Jim,
This statement?
Why not focus on bringing in some people and ideas that are not bound tightly by your on sphincter. ????
Is totally uncalled for.
I also think you are seriously underestimating the caliber of artist and thinkers in Jax by your entire first posts.
We're not children anymore Jim. We grew up seeing your paintings, then we went away and got art degrees, and traveled the world. Some even have MFAs now. We've seen and lived in large cities with real art scenes.
We are very serious about taking Jax to the next level. To dismiss us would be a big mistake I believe.
And I think you've repeated your post as you've said all of that before.
I don't think my post was that rude.
It was a call for artists. it was a blanket statement that was looking to get some folks inspired.
And yours takes it to a level of downright disrespect.
P.S.
A lot of us are already showing in a lot of large cities that have already validated us?
Jim already apologized. We all say things in the heat of a first response. those of us married folks or in long term relationships know all about that.
So lets all hit the ol restart button and move on, k?
I hear you.
Feel maybe his post was over the top a bit.
And his apology
....
Sorry if I was a little too strong on this....
wasn't a strong enough apology but maybe that's all I'll get. no worries.
definitely open to working with Jim and I actually just shot him an invite to join JaxCAL 
really. hope you join Jim. Would love to hear more of your input.
I think that there are several points in
this discussion. One is the concept of
subject matter. Subject matter has to be unlimited if you are giving the artist free reign to create. If you are talking about genre painting or what is
sometimes referred to as "regional realism", i.e. lobster traps in Maine,
Cacti in New Mexico, Shells in Florida,
that is a different subject. At that point you start talking about market.
Any regional market is going to sell
genre painting 100 to 1, dollar for dollar over any other art form.
Only your sophisticated markets are going to sell anything else (magazine
art) and now, we are fortunate to have
an international venue just a few hours south of us. So, you have to seek other revenue sources to fund
your desire to show any work that may
be challenging, confrontational,
so-called cutting edge, or non-traditional. Most provencial cities, such as Jacksonville, look to other sources to promote, fund, and
show these out-of-mainstream images.
Museums, art centers, and the like
then become the venue of choice.
It is not a good thing to put down
or say bad things about any commercial
gallery or artist who is just trying to survive. All it does is alienate.
Why don't we all try to figure out how
to fund some really good venues to which an artist/group of artist could
propose a project and have a curatorial process, (get someone like
Jerry Collum to be the 'decider")
And, on top of that, everyone has to make some sort of financial committment. At least drop a few
dollars into the beer box!
I think this is a good start to a conversation.
Sorry if that was enough of an apology,
just think of me as a washed-up, out-of-touch old fart, who was trying to help. Hummm, maybe I did.
Ahhh, the mysteries of youth.
And I did think the sphincter thing was
kind of cute. I actually looked it up to figure out how to spell it.
In the olden days, stories from Cedar Bar, there were huge drunken fights with
ashtrays flying across the room, then they would all hug each other and sing
drunk songs til dawn.
Right Mark? You probably know me better than most here, I think I am an ok guy>
If I had not given a damn, I would have done like everyone else and kept my mouth shut.
Sorry about the sphincter remark,
as cute as it was.
jd
Yes Jim you are okay.. i guess
I kid but yes, i know from working for you you know your stuff and I learned quite a bit from those days with you at Raw Materials and Brooklyn. In fact, it is because of those experiences that I am excited about this latest push.
You know, I got back from grad school feeling a bit old fartish myself (not washed up mind you ) I hermited myself a bit and participated in other cities' artblogs and exchanged emails with artists outside cuz I thought there were tops 3 people (incl. you) locally I could sit down and have a fruitful conversation about art at all much less contemporary. But then I met Barrett and Tonya, Seesaw was a great thing, I met Matt and Katie at Opaq, and now I have met a ton thru the local art blogs. SO Ive discovered I am not so isolated after all. Things can happen working with others.
Also, from teaching at the local colleges I ave struggled with the lack of knowledge young people have about art and esp. contemp art. None of that has been their fault if they have grown up in an area where they cannot be exposed to this art. So i am deeply committed (in fact its my job as a teacher) to trying to help that situation.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading those comments. I wish I had something to add, but I think you guys all summed it up.
great Jim.
Would definitely like to get more of your input in the future on all of it.
sorry for the blanket statement. didn't mean to offend anyone. It was a call to arms more than anything and honestly I'm just glad we are having dialogue.
cheers.
Who wants to go to Art Basel Miami in December? The young guns and the old farts and me as moderater.
you know i am in Kurt.
I might have to get the internet at the house. There's a chance I could become addicted though.
well, this has certainly turned into quite a conversation.
its interesting how pertinent this dialogue is to what is going on right now. mark- i like that idea for the "landscape show". it really has endless possibilities.
jim- i agree with you about trying to find some venues. i am sure that there is plenty to be found around here, and even some places that will be appearing very soon.
to what exactly Kurt? 
Hey Kurt, sorry I couldn't go with you guys last year. Let's do it this year.
My studio is out near Adventura in those
warehouses between Biscayne and Dixie.
I'll check but maybe we can all camp out. Bring folding chairs and we can grill and sit in the parking lot, drink beer. Bring the cameras. A lot of great people down there. Byron? Mark?
you guys up for an all nighter?
Old guys win on this deal. Mark, by the way, my mind is numb now but I met someone down there who said you had been by their gallery.
jd
Yeah, It is interesting the history that
we all had together. All of the sudden there is this great burst of energy from all of these new people. You, who have
been with me from Pedestrian, through
Raw Materials, Brooklyn, Viscosity, Spiller Vincenty, Draper Studios, SeeSaw(bows to Barrett for making it work) know that there is nothing I like
(or do) better than a good show. Let's
blow it out.
Send me ideas. I want one of those ART AWARDS and by damn I am going to get one!
jd
(really into projections/light/video
accidental venue/collected image/
etc.etc.etc. and also found)
I'll be going to Art Basel for sure to install my www.trophysoldiers.com flyers all over. It's a flyer project after all. Can't wait to see them all over every corner in the art district.
Does anyone want to collaborate on an art project for it versus just going down there?
I've been thinking it might be cool to get a small RV trailer and curate it with micro art from Jacksonville and pull that bad bod down there for Art Basel.
I've always wanted a Micro Art Gallery. Fast, agile, and mobile. there was a space in Williamsburg, Brooklyn when I lived there that was just a storage shed behind someones brownstone. They got like 200 pieces of art in their every month and it was curated very seriously.
They were always listed as a gallery in all the printed gallery art rags. It was always a very intimate experience as it was so small that only one person at a time could be in the space. After viewing the work folks would go up to the brownstone for the reception. Really amazing what you can do with a little space and good direction.
Anyways.
cheers.
hey everyone...i just added myself to the list for the call to artist at jaxcal. Would luv to be a part of it.-B.
byron love the airstream idea
count me in!!!!!!!!!
what about something in a el camino...............
me too
so..........tell me what you want
what you really really want
i'll tell you what i want what i really really want
i wanna i wanna i wanna
i wanna
i wanna really really really wanna zigga zig ah
sorry, i thought that went with the airstream
Jim,
Morrison and I will certainly take you up on your Miami offer. I'm sure some of the others will too. I've got some other ideas too. Email me
blackholearts@hotmail.com
KP
Ain't got my personal site up but give me a HOLLA for art shows!
remeber cw
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