HaloScan.com - Comments

Pelosi!
Liberty Lover | 01.16.07 - 11:46 pm | #

24 had a democratic black president who if he were to be a president in real life would be the greatest in history...and the republican president from last season turns out to be a traitor to the country...it's the best damn liberal action show on television!
yoyoyooy | 01.16.07 - 11:47 pm | #

You really need to look past the FOX News references on 24. It's still the most thrilling show on TV. The questions it raises uproot the conventional wisdom of both liberals and conservatives. As liberals, we should welcome that — not just get "annoyed" at FOX for promoting itself through one of its own shows.
Rob Poggenklass | 01.16.07 - 11:47 pm | #

Did anyone else catch Colbert's rather pointed "Word" segment on symbolism?
Dr. Know | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 11:47 pm | #

I don't watch "24" I try to be selective about the images I put in my head...

Then again, I will probably never watch Saw, Saw ii, or Saw iii
Liberty Lover | 01.16.07 - 11:48 pm | #

Did you stick around long enough to hear the President's sister reassure him: "I am no idealistic flag burner"? Idealism and flag burning, together again.

Really, 24 has become unentertaining, empty, soul-less facist crap. That's a step down from it's previous incarnation as entertaining, empty, soul-less facist crap.
bp | 01.16.07 - 11:49 pm | #

Ok...I've never watched the show. Sorry.

I have a topic that is VERY important. This is hot stuff.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/arch...ives/ 002348.php

WH Moved Swiftly to Replace US Attorneys
By Paul Kiel - January 16, 2007, 3:22 PM
The administration is replacing U.S. Attorneys throughout the country. How'd they get that power?

It was an obscure provision in the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act, and it didn't take them very long to use it. The president signed it into law in March of last year -- by June, they were already moving to replace unwanted prosecutors.

Former Arkansas USA Bud Cummins told the Wall Street Journal that "a top Justice official asked for his resignation in June, saying the White House wanted to give another person the opportunity to serve." Cummins was finally forced out in December, replaced with Timothy Griffin, formerly the research director of the Republican National Committee.

Section 502 of the PATRIOT Act reauthorization, which was first drafted in July of 2005 and finally signed in March of 2006, changed the law regarding the appointment of U.S. Attorneys. Whereas before the relevant federal district court would have appointed a replacement within 120 days after the Attorney General picked one, now that pick stood without challenge.

How did this (brief, legalistically worded, but powerful) section get in to the bill? It's not clear. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) has consistently referred to the provision as "little noticed." What is clear is that Feinstein and her colleagues did not expect the provision to be used in this way. We'll have more on this as we learn more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N...WbJV1eBMk& eurl=

Sen. Feinstein on U.S. Attorney Appointments

You guys have to watch this. You won't sleep tonight.
Jeanne | 01.16.07 - 11:53 pm | #

You guys are overreacting. Doesn't 24 also address Gitmo, civil rights, racial violence, and infringement on our liberties? It is obvious that the one guy with the same mentality as our current administration is viewed as somewhat of a bad guy.
Obeman | 01.16.07 - 11:54 pm | #

While I didn't watch the premiere, I would think that Fox News references are mostly just due to the fact that the show airs on Fox. West Wing always did the same thing, where if it showed footage of a real news network, it would be MSNBC(since the show aired on NBC). Likely just something with licensing the graphics more easily for intercompany productions or something, who knows.
La la | 01.16.07 - 11:55 pm | #

i haven't seen it. i know a few guys that like it.

most of them still have their original g.i. joe collections and none of them have girlfriends.
bauer | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 11:55 pm | #

24 was obvious fascist war on terror porn from episode 1, that anyone doesn't get that does kind of explain how america/UK is in the mess it is in.
RickB | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 11:56 pm | #

I have always wondered WHY Keiffer Sutherland would do such a rotten show as "24".

It has no "stretch" for an actor. It is repetitive to the point of pure insanity.

It is an anathema to Donald Sutherland's work.

I think working on it is destroying Keiffer Sutherland's reputation and fan base.

Too bad. He used to be a really talented guy.
Yellowbird | 01.16.07 - 11:56 pm | #

24 is FANTASY. The reason it's such great TV? It played up realistic fears. The reason a nuke being detonated on U.S. soil freaks you out...well, it could happen! Great show, really great show. The people who don't like it just need to get over themselves.
Alex | 01.16.07 - 11:56 pm | #

when's this damn war with iran gonna kick off?

need us a nuclear winter to offset this global warmin'.
bauer | Homepage | 01.16.07 - 11:58 pm | #

Its a show on FOX, that's why Fox News is on it. Just like towards the end of West Wing it was always on MSNBC. Anyway, 24 is FICTION people...relax and watch some dude save the world. And I agree with someone who posted about the black president who is great and the white republican prez who is a tratior. We accept the torture because it is, again, FICTION. Anyway, the point is don't dismiss a show just because Faux News is on the TV on the show on TV.
Gretty | 01.16.07 - 11:59 pm | #

I have been a 24 fan from the beginning, seeing as it is the greatest show ever, so take my email with a grain of salt. 24 is a FOX show, so they're going to put FOX crap up everywhere. The West Wing had NBC, MSNBC and cNBC stuff on their show too. Try not to get too worked up over it.

Also, this season (more so than in seasons past), they have attempted to contrast the desire for security by any means necessary (read: Bush administration) with the requirement of sticking to the Constitution (read: everybody else not out of touch with reality). Regina King's character exemplifies this struggle.

I think it's an important topic to discuss, one that will ultimately garner more attention and respect for the Constitution, and one that will ultimately shame this presidency in the eyes of historians. So give the show a chance. Seeing as it's the best show ever, I think you might like it.

Andrew, Toledo, OH
Andrew | 01.17.07 - 12:03 am | #

i love it when c&l talks about TV. the most harmful weapon against the working men and women in the world. the very swordarm of consumerism and coporatism hailed by c&l as meaningful and valid.

it is sad.
Los Populistos | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:04 am | #

There is more than one great tv show out there, Studio 60 comes to mind for me. And The Simpsons is on Fox as well. But I've never watched 24 so I can't really comment on it except to say that Avarosis is a big fan of it, so it can't be all bad ...
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:05 am | #

If it's the best show ever, how the hell do you explain a perfect, beauty salon haircut that Keefur gave to himself? Huh? Huh?

Facist, soul-less, unentertaining and Badly Written crap.

Now...Lost. THAT's a show.
bp | 01.17.07 - 12:06 am | #

Colbert just freakin ambushed his guest. It was awesome.
Ryan | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:06 am | #

The logo is an amplified version of product placement. No big deal. As for "24," I rented the DVD at the local video store, since I don't have cable. I was barely able to sit through one episode, where his daughter is kidnapped, and it was so full of melodramatic unbelievable interpersonal relationship crap interfering with him trying to save the world or whatever, I never bothered with the rest of the episodes. To me, it's drivel. YMMV.
Straight Shooter | 01.17.07 - 12:07 am | #

Keep in mind that the 1st half of the 1st season of "24" pre-dates 9/11 and the "War on Terror" as we know it today, but still used terrorism as it's premise. The first season had to be watered down mid-season due to the sensitivity issues raised by 9/11.

I stopped watching after season one because of the crappy writing.

It's a stretch to say this show is a propaganda tool--and as some have noted above, many characters and plot lines play favorably to more moderate themes. The notion of bad guys blowing the shit out of us has been around in movies and TV for a long, long, time.

Yes, Faux News is a propaganda arm of the republican party. But the Fox network is continuously out on the edge of criticizing the right with shows like, "Family Guy", "The Simpsons", et al.

So ... while this administation is the most corrupt and prone to use misinformation and fear-mongering via propaganda since the third reich, I don't think this show is a deliberate participant.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 12:08 am | #

> As for "24," I rented the DVD at the local video store, since I don't have cable. I was barely able to sit through one episode, where his daughter is kidnapped, and it was so full of melodramatic unbelievable interpersonal relationship crap interfering with him trying to save the world or whatever, ...

hmm., sounds like they copied West Wing with that one except they didn't do the proper thing with it like West Wing did (create what is sometimes called a "Constitutional Crisis" (on West Wing when it happened, President Bartlet temporarally removed himself from office making John Goodman/theSpeakerOfTheHouse President (there was no vice-President at the time, he had resigned.))
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:11 am | #

How long did it take them this time to blame this terrorist attack on Bill Clinton?

Maureen Dowd weighs in with her impressions of Bush's interview on 60 Minutes and it's better than her usual, I think.
jurassicpork | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:11 am | #

Chloe's hot.
moniker | 01.17.07 - 12:19 am | #

Man, stop apologizing for liking 24. It really is embarrassing to hear all your feeble justification. It's a show. Like my son trying to explain his love of WWE. It will always have something for everyone. Especially Rupert M. He gets the ratings and the dough.

If only real life was like TV.
(um it's not you know)
ren | 01.17.07 - 12:25 am | #

Honestly the show seems to be comming at it from both ends. The sub plot involving the presidents sister and the FBI seems to say some thing about the necessity of the preservation of civil liberties. Personally I think that when the show lands it will land on the liberal side.
Marc Smith | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:29 am | #

Yea, that's true. Cloe is very hot. But marginalized in the new season and under-written. As all the women are on 24.

Formulaic, fascist, badly-written, unentertaining....
bp | 01.17.07 - 12:30 am | #

Youre really making something out of nothing. Whenever a NBC scripted show involves a 'news story' its always covered by MSNBC or CNBC.

I mean...you do a good job going after the stuff that NBC and Fox try to avoid going after. You dont need to attack stuff this small.
David Hill | 01.17.07 - 12:30 am | #

I have mixed feelings about this show in general, why give anyone who might be susceptible ideas?

Remember the movie about the football players laying in the middle of the highway as an initiation? Some real kids tried it and got killed by cars...

I know that "24" is fiction, but that doesn't make it right and most people can tell the difference between fiction and real life, but what of the few who can't? It puts all of us at risk.

I'd rather see people making love on the TV than watching buses get blown up.

Makes you wonder about the line between message and propaganda.
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 12:31 am | #

the characters are totally unbelievable. I watched the show for half of one episode. Wooden characters, lame dialogue, ridiculous plots.. what on earth is the hype about? Law and Order CI is a much better show, for what it's worth...
Marky | 01.17.07 - 12:32 am | #

When the president's sister says "I'm no idealistic flag-burner," she's waving a sign in your face that says "under no circumstances am I or any other character in this program to be interpreted as anything resembling liberal--unless and until they are revealed to be terrorist moles or sympathizers." Liberal suburbanites rush to protect neighbor Arab? Stupid bleeding-heart immigrant-loving liberal dupes.

Terrible show.
bp | 01.17.07 - 12:34 am | #

Pure fucking PROPAGANDA.

...
AConfederacyofDunces | 01.17.07 - 12:35 am | #

One of the first things John Goodman said as President to his crew, was like "We got to find a vice-President. I'm one steak dinner away from death." Funny as hell!!!!
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:37 am | #

Remember how ex-Sen Thompson ruined L&O with his sloganeering? In 24, everyone is a Thompson or his opposite, a 1-dimensional terrorist cutout.
bah
Marky | 01.17.07 - 12:37 am | #

Well, actually, this season had Jack be far more hesitant to torture and far more put off by it after having been tortured himself. It's like he's carrying demons.
SurgeJack | 01.17.07 - 12:38 am | #

Does anyone know what happened to Michael Ware? I miss his reporting from Iraq........he's the best reporter on CNN..
Just an Old Lady | 01.17.07 - 12:38 am | #

I didn't even attempt to watch it.
The brainwashed people outside have been talking of that program so I knew then to stay far from that one.

Dodging subliminals.
KucinicH | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:39 am | #

Since "24" is a show on the Fox Network, they would have the news covered by Fox News. It's no different that on, say, "ER" and the storyline included aspects of weather and the medical emergencies that would arise from that storyline. I have seen episodes of ER that incorporated fake news coverage of a snowstorm (or some such event) provided by the local NBC news affiliate WMAQ-TV.
Shawn St.Clair | 01.17.07 - 12:43 am | #

Ha ha, you guys are ridiculous. GET OVER YOURSELVES. If you can't find 24 entertaining, well, I feel sorry for you.
Alex | 01.17.07 - 12:45 am | #

"24" is one of my favorite shows. It is very thrilling, and watching it has not turned me into a pro-torture neon-con apologist for Bush's war on terror. Still, it would be nice if the show occasionally made a nod to reality and showed Jack Bauer pausing for a moment to take a quick piss or a power nap.
Tommykey | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:46 am | #

Pretty obvious that the show is being used as propaganda to further Neocon generated fear.

The fact that Drudge was hysterically hyping up "IS FOX SET TO BLOW THE NUKES ON '24'?" as his main story, for a whole day, was pretty f-ing transparent if you ask me.

They all carry water for the same master and get their talking points sent to them from the same fax machine.
John Doe | 01.17.07 - 12:47 am | #

all righty now lets talk about something importent , say like the show jerrico! think its going to start up again or did gerald mc rainy just do it to scare folks into voteing repig after showing all them nukes in denver??
tyree | 01.17.07 - 12:48 am | #

[deleted--Please consult our commenting policy for terms and conditions of posting. Posts made with the intent to insult or incite a flame war, or advocating violence, are subject to editing/deletion. ]

Edited By Siteowner
You People [deleted] | 01.17.07 - 1:03 am | #

Jack Bauer should be a emotionless sociopath by now.
coleshack | 01.17.07 - 1:04 am | #

I had the same feeling. 24 was like a huge promo for Fox News. Still, I stuck with it but it seemed way too repetitive and not very well written.

Read First Lady Laura Bush Bares All In Explosive Interview
Virt | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:05 am | #

Hey, 30 Rock is funny!!!! Yeah it's no West Wing as far as messages (except they both have plenty of Saturday Night synchs) but it's entertaining!
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:05 am | #

best show indeed: if you are 17 and still like the Three Stooges perhaps...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:07 am | #

(err., I meant Studio 60, not West Wing)
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:07 am | #

Stan -- is Studio 60 coming back or is it gone?
I sure liked it...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:08 am | #

24 is not FOX propaganda!

Over the last 5 seasons we we've seen a 1st lady (former) help the bad guys, and the President himself sells WMDs to the bad guys.

Crazy to understand why a FOX show would use a FOX news station......
Vibius | 01.17.07 - 1:10 am | #

It'll be back on this Monday night, LL.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:10 am | #

Why should anyone be surprised? There are factions afoot to influence the American public to keep the war in Iraq going and then strike Iran.
Hareli | 01.17.07 - 1:12 am | #

Has anyone seen the show? The show deals with double agents in our government and corrupt politicans that want to do harm to the american people. Last year the show had the pres involed in plotting to kill innocent american people.

Now is it possible that something like a suitcase bomb could go off yes it is. That is why we need to improve port security and have real intelligence.

Now the Kool-drinking crowd said that we had to stay in Iraq to prevent a real nuke from going off. This is a false assumption. Iraq has caused more terrorism and hate then it has prevented. Any logical thinking person knows this. Everyone on this site knows this. People like us will never convice the 20% that think that staying in Iraq is worth it. We could stack evidence to the moon proving Bush lied and all the mistakes but they still will not believe it.

In conclusion, if the wing-nuts have to use a TV show to jusify their polices then they are grasping for straws. I personally think it is the most liberal show on TV showing a black president, showing the need for more intelligence, and showing how there are corrupt officals who want to do the American people harm.

By the way I hate bush and friends with a passion and I consider myself very liberal. If you have not seen 24 you should it is very good. If you want to a more liberal show about the war on terror then watch Battlestar Galactica on scifi. Also just because it is on Fox does not make it a consertive show. Remember this is the network that has simpsons, used to have married with childern, family guy, American Dad (hardly a conversitive show), and lets not forget Temptation Island.
jparso | 01.17.07 - 1:13 am | #

Stan: woohoo!

As for you others who are older than 17 and don't like the 3 stooges, but do like 24, my apologies, I let the troll get to me a little...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:14 am | #

I don't watch "24" I try to be selective about the images I put in my head...
[deleted--keep it civil, please] Go back to watching PBS and your collection of PG-13 family films. [deleted--can you make a point without insulting others?]

Edited By Siteowner
You People [deleted] | 01.17.07 - 1:16 am | #

.
.
.
I, like others here, turned on this show for the first time last night. What I saw was propaganda that was trying to normalize the illegality of Gitmo. In the show, the evil terrorists wanted to free the bad terrorists being held as enemy combatants.

You see, at Guantanamo they are all bad guys who deserve no rights.
.
.
.
STOP_George | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:22 am | #

You People Suck Balls | 01.17.07 - 1:16 am | #

come to think of it, I'm watching NOVA as we speak, lol!

But I do have my guilty pleasures, I know "Diehard" by heart. But don't tell anyone...wink wink
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:23 am | #

Glen who?
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:24 am | #

Did anyone see that a U.S. solider let the terrorist go!! By using the logic of people here then all U.S. soliders must be letting terrorists go
jparso3 | 01.17.07 - 1:25 am | #

When it comes to TV:

"don't watch"
it's really quite simple | 01.17.07 - 1:26 am | #

I lost interest in that show after season 1. Terror-porn does not turn me on.
an un-American | 01.17.07 - 1:27 am | #

Beck. The self proclaimed "conservative" who, as an adult, refuses to watch R rated films.

Ok, so you've memorized Diehard. Now memorize every other movie Bruce Willis has been in.

STOP_George

Right, because everyone at Guantanamo is innocent.
You People Don't Suck Anything | 01.17.07 - 1:27 am | #

Erm I think, Nicole, you are a bit over confident lol. This debate obviously has been going on a long time, and it is an elementary one. Also, I've been using the term 'borrow and spend' for years.
Barge Atwil | 01.17.07 - 1:28 am | #

Uh...terror/porn? I've not heard of this genre but it sounds awesome. What programs would you classify as "terror/porn"? Will I have to prove I'm over 18 to watch them?
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:29 am | #

24 is just sponsored propaganda like our manufactured news. Keifer is a "kept man" bought and paid for just like neocon news pundits/puppets.
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 1:30 am | #

I've watched 24 since season 2, and it's not a propaganda tool.

I know your suspicions may be raised when you see fox "news" logo plastered everywhere, but it's not so cut and dry. The show is smudging the lines of probability to create suspense and drama, that's nothing new. The only thing that is new is the topic it's covering. There is no mention of political parties or partisan talking points outside of a healthy multidimensional context.

Here's something you may not have noticed on the show: While all TVs in CTU and elsewhere are tuned to Fox "news", the president's lovely flat screen is tuned to CNN.
Jesse Langham | 01.17.07 - 1:30 am | #

When it comes to TV:

"don't watch"
it's really quite simple

how is that simple? What's wrong with TV?
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:31 am | #

I have always wondered WHY Keiffer Sutherland would do such a rotten show as "24".

probably the money, huh?
James T. Kirk | 01.17.07 - 1:31 am | #

TV is a wasteland. Enjoy YOUR life. More than an hour a day and you are allowing someone else to run your life and determine your values. Do yourself and your family or friends a favor ---give it the boot.
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:32 am | #

"Now memorize every other movie Bruce Willis has been in."

Not sure I have the time for that, after all it will cut into my intellectual programming about global warming and analyzing ice layers.

Besides, "Mercury Rising" was pretty awful...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:32 am | #

I'm not gonna diss folk that watch TV, expecially shows that teach. Now if you specify daytime TV, I might change my mind.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:33 am | #

I'm not sure we're talking about the same show. 24 is a show where Keifer Sutherland goes around punching people in the face and then yelling at them. I think you might be watching something different.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:33 am | #

When it comes to TV:

"don't watch"
it's really quite simple | 01.17.07 - 1:33 am | #

it's really quite simple | 01.17.07 - 1:33 am | #

But It's mindlessness hypnotizes me and keeps me on the couch...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:36 am | #

"TV is a wasteland. Enjoy YOUR life. More than an hour a day and you are allowing someone else to run your life and determine your values."

I DO enjoy my life. And part of my life involves watching Keifer Sutherland hit random strangers, smash people in the nuts and scream at them.

Also, I don't see how watching television for more than one hour a day is "allowing someone else to run your life and determine your values." That makes no sense. TV doesn't DETERMINE my values. TV can't DETERMINE ANYBODY'S values. That's a dumb idea.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:36 am | #

Battlestar Galactica is a pretty darn good show.
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:37 am | #

Was I the only one who noticed Baur's burgeoning "moral crisis" was that he was unable to properly torture someone?
spondee | 01.17.07 - 1:38 am | #

No anonymous, i think battlestar galactica is a horrible show. I don't think that TV should be telling me that all cylons are evil. It's pure anti-cylonic racism, and I don't want TV determining my frakking values.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:39 am | #

Very few shows teach. Many that pretend to are very inaccurate and quite slanted. The "news" programs are a travesty and the others are often manipulating your thinking whether you think they are coming from the right or coming from the left. Enjoy YOUR life, you only have one.
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:39 am | #

I saw that too spondee, and anyone who actually watches the show knows it's a very involved plot.
Jesse Langham | 01.17.07 - 1:40 am | #

I hate all the pretentious, necon crap on the airwaves these days. Bring back the innocent junk of the old days. I'd rather watch Get Smart anyday to 24.
PassedPawn | 01.17.07 - 1:41 am | #

I like M*A*S*H*

But they are all reruns for me...watched them the first time in the 70's
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:41 am | #

no, you're wrong. jack bauer knows everything about torturing people. He just lost the heart for it. It didn't bring him the joy it once did, because the chinese tortured him for 20 months. It had nothing to do with his exceptional skill at torturing people, although he could learn something from the other guy, assad (i.e. stabbing someone in the kneecap).
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:42 am | #

See, that's why I love the show. It's so mindlessly brutal that it verges on the absurd.

To enjoy 24, you've got to let yourself get lost in the fear. It's quite enjoyable as long as you remember that it's just a TV show. Of course, I don't doubt there are a lot of idiots that don't realize that.
Jesse Langham | 01.17.07 - 1:44 am | #

You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:42 am | #

Some TV tortures me...LOL
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:44 am | #

yeah, i liked get smart when i was 8. Then i grew up and watch ADULT programming.

Again, i do enjoy my life, and part of it is watching an off-the-wall CTU agent solve problems his own way with his own brand of american justice.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:44 am | #

BTW it's not Amed it's Ack-mead! GO TAJ!!
Jesse Langham | 01.17.07 - 1:45 am | #

TV has obviously destroyed your values. Go to the gym and workout if you have such debilitating frustrations. You will be a better person for setting your own agenda, not kowtowing to someone who doesn't give a hoot abou you. It's YOUR life, not K.S.'s. Good luck.
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:46 am | #

Oooh, good stuff:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/...watch- this.html
Shut Up And Yell | 01.17.07 - 1:48 am | #

I figure that 24 must have something to it, for look at the trolls it attracts when it's mentioned!!!!
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:48 am | #

BSG teaches us that torture doesn't work on cylons or Gaius Baltar
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:49 am | #

I can see why you know so much about my values, Anon. Reading a few possibly semi-truthful posts on an internet forum obviously provides you with enough evidence to come to a groundbreaking conclusion that "TV has obviously destroyed your(my) values."

and I only WISH that my life was Keifer Sutherlands.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:49 am | #

A friend of mine wanted to contribute this to the conversation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UkMI5t6WVMs
Nicole Belle | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:50 am | #

I'm checking to see if i can be as cool as the TV capture peeps.
Uploaded a vid to YouTube.

O'realy on Colbert this Thursday, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j...h? v=jBlfu0tRMLo

Does it work OK?
KucinicH | 01.17.07 - 1:51 am | #

K.S. doesn't want your life; why want his?
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:52 am | #

Nicole
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 1:52 am | #

Nicole Belle | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:50 am |

Oh the Nazi saga continues......
KucinicH | 01.17.07 - 1:53 am | #

Because he's Keifer Sutherland and I'm not.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:53 am | #

I watched that first episode too, the first time I've ever watched 24. I was struck immediately by the fearmongering and racism, but was hoping that somehow it would turn out that the seemingly "nice guy" Ahmed turned out to really be a good guy. But no. He and all those other brown people truly are terrorists, to be feared, despised, sent to Gitmo and tortured!!! They want to kill us all!!!

I was also immediately struck by how bad the acting was, how lame the plot, and how stereotyped the characters are.

Basically, 24 is a piece of crap, and I'm ashamed of Keifer Sutherland; somebody has to be since he obviously isn't feeling too bad about portraying a sick torture-loving puppet of the state, in a bad production. I wonder how his dad feels about it.

Anyway, I won't be wasting my time on it again.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 1:54 am | #

I watched a few episodes during season 1. I thought it had moments but could also be very hokey. It seemed like his daughter was always about to fall off a cliff or get eaten by lions.

What I saw cant hold a candle to HBO Sunday or even good sci-fi like the new Battlestar Galactica.
bubba | 01.17.07 - 1:55 am | #

Thank you bubba
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 1:57 am | #

- I like this show.
- I'm as liberal as they come.
- The show tackles BOTH sides and their idiosyncracies.
- Some of you people sound like fascists yourselves with how scared you are of the free flow of information, propaganda or not.

IT'S ENTERTAINMENT, PURE AND SIMPLE.
Jesse Traynor | 01.17.07 - 1:59 am | #

Yeah, he and all of those other brown people, excluding Nadia, an Arab, Assistant to the LA director of CTU, Wayne Palmer, a "brown person" as you call it, who happens to be the president of the united states. I could go on and on about the number of "brown people" on the show who aren't the good guys, but i don't want to continually and rudely refer to Arabs and African-Americans as "brown people" because that's offensive to me. I can only imagine the intelligence one would need to possess in order to form an opinion on the alleged political leanings of a televion program by watching 1 episode out of over 100.
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 1:59 am | #

KucinicH | 01.17.07 - 1:51 am | #

works fine ... good choice...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:00 am | #

So apparently, Dubya has the audacity to criticize IRAQ's execution methods. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070...pr_wh/ bush_iraq
Tequila | 01.17.07 - 2:00 am | #

i meant "the BAD guys"
You People Don't Suck | 01.17.07 - 2:00 am | #

Traynor, great Jesses think alike. Well said
Jesse Langham | 01.17.07 - 2:00 am | #

Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:00 am |

Thank you, I'll try to catch some other stuff in the future.
KucinicH | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:03 am | #

YPDS, be glad you aren't him. Celebrities have far too much power over us.
Why do we kowtow to "our betters" when they actually aren't?
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 2:03 am | #

I love my MTV...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:06 am | #

Why would I be glad I'm not a successful film and television actor? Oh, you mean because I'm already employed as an electrician in a shitty american suburb? Oh, well duh.
You People Are Just Spectacula | 01.17.07 - 2:06 am | #

I love Nicole Belle
So post some more flamebait in 24 hours baby
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:06 am | #

Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:06 am | #

You beat me to a Weird Al synch.

I'll have to post something in honor of it over on the LNMC in a few minutes ...
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:07 am | #

TDS is on now...gotta watch my dose of reality TV...

And I agree with Stan, this was fun...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:08 am | #

LNMC --

??
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:09 am | #

But guys, the acting does suck, the plot is lame, the characters are stereotyped. The brown people are still implied as the enemy to be feared. They always have been in White America. And now, especially if they have foreign, Arab-sounding names. The brown good-guy president is there just to throw you off. (You'll find out how racist America really is when Obama runs for president.)

24 is crap, pure and simple.

P.S. I'm a pasty-white person myself, so don't write this off as a paranoid brown person's rant.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 2:10 am | #

The C&L Late Night Music Club, LL (or as I like to call it, the Early Late Night Wake Up Club)! You should check it out (and contribute!).
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:12 am | #

I used to think 24 was a right-wing parody. Then I read Joel Surnow was developing a Daily Show knock-off for Fox News. What, all this time they've been serious? --- Can you think of ANY organization more dysfunctional than CTU? Everyone who works at CTU is equally dysfunctional. Them righties is some fucked up folks!
jeaton | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:14 am | #

What about the OTHER brown good guy president? The current president's now dead brother? The best president of any of them? Odd that the other presidents were white but also turned out to be dicks/criminals. Yeah, the brown people are still implied as the enemy to be feared, except in the numerous instances in which the people behind the terrorist acts of the day turned out to be white. Most of the head terrorists on the show have been white.
You People Are Just Spectacula | 01.17.07 - 2:15 am | #

Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:12 am | #

DUH! Little distracted tonight....
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:15 am | #

So I'm not getting "CTU", what's that stand for?
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:17 am | #

Saying that 24 is racist is nonsense. Let's face it. You either watch 24 or eat tofu and watch "The Birdcage" 10 times a day. I'm going to bed (after pre-ordering the dvd for the first four episodes of this new season from amazon.com).
You People Are Just Spectacula | 01.17.07 - 2:18 am | #

CTU stands for Counter-Terrorist Unit. A government agency usually stocked with really hot women (i.e. Reiko Aylesworth before her character was killed off by some white people).
You People Are Just Spectacula | 01.17.07 - 2:20 am | #

George Takei and Leonard Nimoy are on TDS tonight, too funny!
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:21 am | #

Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:21 am | #

I can only hope that C&L will have that on the blog tommorow night.

The Trouble With Tribbles!!!!
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:22 am | #

Stan, short segment but really funny.
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:24 am | #

I think the show has changed this year. In the past, if you watched closely, almost none of the toture attempted by Bauer led to information that was useful. It was always too little, too late. This year, Bauer starts to torture someone and gives up. The reformed terrorist grabs the instrument and stabs the victim in the leg and the guy sings like a canary. Message: if torture doesn't work, you're not trying hard enough.

In the past, conservatives tended to scheme their way into trouble. This year, the liberals are namby-pamby, wishy, washy types who endanger the rest of us.
hit_escape | 01.17.07 - 2:25 am | #

hit_escape | 01.17.07 - 2:25 am | #

why the change do you think?
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:26 am | #

George Washington had a Middle East policy...?
Thomas Jefferson had a middle east policy?
Abe Lincoln?

Seems it had to do with Opium and tea...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 2:29 am | #

Too many head shots talking on cell phones, simplistic plot, poor writing, unbelievable characters, bomb shot looked like footage from 50's sci-fi classic.

Waste of Tivo time.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 2:31 am | #

if hugh hewitt and rush limbaugh love this show, i distrust it.
christian | 01.17.07 - 2:38 am | #

Jeez louise,

We just got the congress back a couple of months ago, do we really want to turn people off by going after a fictional tv character?

Can't we leave that crap to the relgious right?

It's just a TV show. A popular one at that, and taking it on as a dangerous symbol of the right is a losing battle.

Leave it alone, kids.
jj | 01.17.07 - 2:39 am | #

when you consider how progressive donald sutherland was in the 60's and 70's, it's pretty disappointing to see how kiefer sold himself out when he was washed up.
bauer | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:39 am | #

Donald Sutherland is an actor. TV shows are generally fiction.

Actors take pride in being able to portray something they're not. Y? Because to pretend to be something you're not is an indication of how good of an actor you are.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:41 am | #

my name really is bauer, btw, tho' please, don't call me jack.
bauer | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:42 am | #

Wasn't it producers from 24 who were with Rush on his tropical Viagra weekend in Haiti? And aren't the people behind the 'right wing' Daily Show/Colbert attempt connected to 24? It's 3 am here so I'll leave the fact checking to someone else, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on both counts, for whatever that adds to the discussion.

Very interesting story I heard once about some 'political kidnappings' (for lack of a better word) in the Southerland family in the 60's-70's related to the radical politics of the time and the US Feds. Anyone else know about it? Not sure how sensitive (or true) it is so I won't say any more but I'm curious if the story is out and known anywhere?

Keifer's (Great?) Grandfather, Tommy Douglas, is the father of Universal Health Care in Canada btw. A true democratic socialist and one of the greatest Canadians ever, according to a recent nationwide poll and contest. Not bad for a hardcore lefty prairie politician who gave the people what they wanted and needed. He had the guts to stand up to the well-funded Doctors and medical establishment and fight the good fight. You should be so lucky to have someone like him right now. (He was a great orator, like Obama is).

24. I haven't watched the show so I can't comment on it. I hear it is very suspenseful. As an actor I guess sometimes you just take the gig for the script, payday or whatever and ignore the politics of it, if there are any visible to begin with.
Thorson Welles | 01.17.07 - 2:45 am | #

you people are the epitome of KNEE JERK LIBERALS

as a liberal its what I hate most about other liberals.

anybody who's watched a full season of 24 knows that it is certainly not right wing propaganda. season 2 had an entire plot line where Jack saves the country from going to war with the middle east by discovering and esposing forged "evidence" created by neocons.

last season the REPUBLICAN president of the united states was a CRIMINAL who orchastrated terror attacks on his own citizens!

this season Jack is actually WORKING with the leader of a former terrorist organization who's put down his guns and bombs and trying to forge peace.

thats the bad thing with a show like 24, it keeps getting more and more popular every year, and every year there are idiots who make snap judgments about it after only seeing one episode.
Jack Bauer | 01.17.07 - 2:48 am | #

I don't trust anyone who claims to be a liberal and then disses them for being open-minded enough to watch a tv show.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:50 am | #

59 million "people" voted for bush, so he must be an entertaining president.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 2:53 am | #

TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 2:53 am | #

Entertaining he's good at. Being a President? NOT!!!!
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:56 am | #

Even if 24 was one of the most liberal and anti-racism, anti-torture shows on the air, I still wouldn't watch it because the acting sucks and the characters are stereotyped. It's like trying to read a bad novel - can't stomach it.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 2:56 am | #

Remember TIKI, President George "D DUBYA I" Bush seems to see himself as another Reagan.

Reagan was always an actor. Even when he was a President.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:58 am | #

Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:50 am | #

well, stan, i understand. the thing is, torture's an especially serious problem right here, right now, in the real world. i have about as little patience for that kind of bull$#!+ brainwashing of the masses as you do for a holocaust denier.

and, no, it has nothing to do with censorship, it's about perception.
bauer | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:59 am | #

> ... and, no, it has nothing to do with censorship

Straw man. I've seen no post in this thread claiming censorship.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:00 am | #

I get frustrated by the silly scenarios and alarmingly stupid characters on the show, but I can't stop watching it. I think people are overreacting to the nuke attack on US soil on the show. It's fiction. It's entertainment. Anyone who's opinion is influenced by this show would be influenced by anything. The rest of us watch it to be entertained. This is much ado about nothing. Let's leave censorship to the rethugs.
jaanny | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:01 am | #

I can't blame the chimp for having a chip on his shoulder because his relatives took a wrong evolutionary turn oh so many moons ago.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 3:03 am | #

You have to watch an entire season of 24 to understand that at the end it has a greater point that we all agree with. Behind every terrorist organization, there is always some rich old white scumbag financing the whole mess =P

Enjoy the show for what it is. ENTERTAINMENT...at least we have enough sense to distinguish reality from fiction.
Mike Jones | 01.17.07 - 3:05 am | #

Another point...after all the terrorists attacks in that show which were x3 worse than 911, You don't see any of the Administrations sending out a whole army to destroy a country. They just send out Jack Bauer the terrorist PittBull =)
Mike Jones | 01.17.07 - 3:08 am | #

Dumbest post on this website ever. IT'S A TV SHOW!
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 3:10 am | #

> Dumbest post on this website ever.

Oh really. You should check out my last post of the night over on the LNMC.
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:13 am | #

Politics aside, the show had no entertainment value for me, so why would I sit thru an entire season?

I'll take your word for it linking up into some great point.

That's why they have Corvettes and SVT Lightnings.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 3:15 am | #

i dont watch 24....but rome makes me want to pick up a sword and head over to the senate chamber

now thats the way to have a real debate
Uncle Joe McCarthy | 01.17.07 - 3:20 am | #

"We got to figure out a way to get these open threads on before Countdown, I wrote this up this morning and he's already scooped me."

C&L really needs a decent chat forum to replace this comment system. People should be allowed to carry ongoing conversations about hot topics and to post their own community reviewed topics.

Embrace web 2.0
Pat | 01.17.07 - 3:25 am | #

Keiffer's body of work can't come close to his dad, Donald sutherland who did great, artistic movies. However since sonny boy couldn't make it on the big screen, he's left with a cheezy, formula series, that parrots all of the neocons propaganda..and if you look ar the History Channel's weapons glorification, pro-govt. Kennedyconspiracy, Iraq invasion series propaganda, Discovery Channels weapons glorification and all the CIA shows, it's getting scary how much GOVERNMENT industrial Complex PROPAGANDA has infested Television.

What's missing, NO mention of oil being the reason of the Iraq invasion, no mention of the planned sell off of Iraqi assets or privatization of Iraqi asssets.
No mention of the rigged, and controlled OIL CONTRACTS by the White House..NADA.

You won't see ANY of the above issues on pro-government propaganda television.
KAHONEEZ | 01.17.07 - 3:36 am | #

> You won't see ANY of the above issues on pro-government propaganda television.

"It should all add up but it doesn't
There's your trouble" - Dixie "Genius" Chicks
Stanley Rosenthal | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:39 am | #

At least GE allows Keith to give us some truth, he mentioned the Iraq oil factor yesterday on Countdown.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 3:45 am | #

It's a thrilling, suspenseful show and I strictly watch it for the entertainment. Sure, it might be, to quote something I heard elsewhere "a neocon's wet dream" but all in all it's damn good television and I've been watching since episode one.
Jason | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:50 am | #

RW sites are talking up '24' and Jack Bauer like he was the only hero able to save the US in these times of peril.

It's more propaganda bilge. "The Sum Of All Fears" is scheduled to play soon. They need to counterprogram "The Siege."

All the generals and commentators are qualifying their support of the surge with "it *can* work" and imply that failure would only come from the weak-kneed.
~
LanceThruster | 01.17.07 - 3:54 am | #

Now if you like thrills and suspense, that dicksock mouse puppet scene in the snake enclosure in Jackass II, is pure artform.
TIKI AL | 01.17.07 - 3:55 am | #

I watched the first and second episode. One of the morals is "Not all muslims are bad".
It's obvious to you, but to a lot of reactionary fucks it's revolutionary.
littlehorn | 01.17.07 - 3:56 am | #

I gave up on 24 years ago after I saw Keifer Sutherland's character shoot and kill a handcuffed prisoner in an interrogation room at a government facility. We were supposed to feel sympathy for his murderous and traitorous shooting of a terrorist. Pah. The moment we start glorifying murderous policemen is the moment we slip into brown shirt mayhen.
fuddled | 01.17.07 - 4:07 am | #

Television is propaganda and conditioning, and has been for a long time. It's not just limited to 24. Every network is running either some doomsday scenario drama where the government agents come and save the population for certain peril. Or crime and justice dramas where law enforcement and the judicial system in the end catch the guilty party and justice is fair.

Then there are the sitcoms which typically portray a family unit that show, how the powers that be shape what the nuclear family should resemble within the society.

To me watching television is only interesting from a critical point of view. What patriarical/matriarchal message are they trying to push on me. The same goes for their network news.
1970cs | 01.17.07 - 4:08 am | #

Jesus some people here are real tightasses. It's just a TV for f*cks sake. It doesn't just border on ridiculousness, it is ridiculous. But it's very entertaining and there a few interesting political events that occur in the show. To say it is "propoganda" is a huge stretch and not even close to being the truth.

Some people here need to loosen up, and for those who hate TV completely...well good for you. Some of us enjoy TV, so get over it.
somebody who enjoys 24 | 01.17.07 - 4:24 am | #

I watched the premier. I enjoyed leering at the guy who used to play Julian Bashir (now with beard) and reliving my teenage crush, but my heart sank when I saw Achmed take the evil guy route.

On the bright side, the Dresden Files is on SciFi next Sunday.
Ragnell | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 4:26 am | #

Try reading some Noam Chomsky, you might enjoy it.
1970cs | 01.17.07 - 4:27 am | #

Great American family sitcoms: The Honeymooners, All in the Family, Married With Children.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 4:31 am | #

Non issue, its bloody fition and it may start of with one thing but it quickly raises other issues, blowback, politicising events and devious politicians, you really aren't doing youselves any favours getting worked up over this one.
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 4:34 am | #

And the Simpsons.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 4:37 am | #

The media has incredible power over the population.

ie. The media(newspaper, television, talk radio) completely shut out Ned Lamont. The result was the people of Connecticut voted against their own best interests and re-elected Likudman.
1970cs | 01.17.07 - 4:38 am | #

On the one hand, it's just television, a mindless dramatic presentation designed to entertain. I don't watch a lot of television, and haven't seen the later incarnations of this series.

On the other, television is often an interesting benchmark to public opinion or tastes or media manipulation of a public that, all too often, doesn't have the intellectual skills to evaluate what they're absorbing while sitting slack-jawed on the sofa with a can of beer in one hand and a bag of Fritos in the other.

I was as entertained by the first 24 when it came out as most people. But my interest waned quickly in the second series after Bauer tortured one of the bad guys for information. That was the trip-point for me. I didn't the episode where he shoots and kills 'a handcuffed prisoner in an interrogation room at a government facility.' Just as glad I didn't.

Speaking of glorifying murderous policemen and brown shirt mayhem... isn't there some kind of show in the states where the main 'protagonist' is a forensic scientist by day and a pathological serial killer by night? Now THAT is really disturbing...
nonny mouse | 01.17.07 - 4:39 am | #

24 is about computer geeks that have to work endlessly to correct the fatal mistakes of mindless administrations.

The protagonist is a web wahini with no social skills. Her computer skills save the lives of millions, day in and day out, or hour after hour.

The main theme of the program is:

In order to help your fellow man, you have to get around the idiots in power.
Clay Potts | 01.17.07 - 5:08 am | #

What's missing, NO mention of oil being the reason of the Iraq invasion, no mention of the planned sell off of Iraqi assets or privatization of Iraqi asssets.
No mention of the rigged, and controlled OIL CONTRACTS by the White House..NADA.

You won't see ANY of the above issues on pro-government propaganda television.
KAHONEEZ | 01.17.07 - 3:36 am |

Umm... I'm guessing that you haven't seen Season 5 then (or the second half of season 2, for that matter), which happened to be rather along those very lines.

Seriously, guys. First of all, some of the reactions here see a little... overzealous. I know, I know, TV's a powerful medium and all that, and yes, "24" does indeed run on morally questionable lines at times, but I'd hardly call it right-wing propaganda and I'm both an avowed liberal and a fan of "24".

Besides, if "24" is indeed meant to be pro-bush/neocon propaganda, it's really doing a pretty piss-poor job of making its case. As several other posters have commented, frequently the terrorists or their bosses are white and at times, members of the administration itself and as I noted, Jack has been portrayed as saving the day from powerful, amoral white dudes intent on causing mayhem and war for profit (over oil, no less!).

Indeed, whilst we're on the topic of overanalysing 24 and reading into it things which may or may not be intended, it might be worth noting some other parts of the first four episodes of the season. We've already seen an obviously innocent man detained for no good reason by misuse of the fictional "Revised Enemy Combatant Statute" by a bunch of faceless FBI types who're obviously freaking-out over the terrorist attacks, which rings a bell or two. The same man, now in an orange jumpsuit and in a setting that evokes comparisons with the BushCo real-life version of a detainee-centre is then witness to unwarranted detainee abuse and is attacked himself whilst peacefully objecting to this. Oh, and whilst I'm at it, there's the little matter of President Palmer's reaction a few seconds after seeing the nuke go off on a video-feed; "Alert all first-response teams in Los Angeles and the surrounding counties. Let's put them in contact with the military. Tell them... tell them the resources of the entire nation are at their disposal - whatever it is they need... Karen..." The 'Karen' part is because he's saying this whilst his advisers are all still staring slack-jawed at the screen. If that can't be interpreted as an indictment of Bush's inaction and mismanagement during Katrina then I'm not sure what could be!

Still, to be honest, whatever one reads into it, it's just a darned TV show. I happen to like it, plenty of people don't, but I really don't think that it's some sort of insidious Fox propaganda tool, at least aside from the maddening product-placement aspect! Besides, if we want to get rid of "24" or trash it for allegedly espousing right-wing views then I'm afraid that we're going to have to eighty-six "The West Wing" and "Star Trek" to be fair, which would be a darned shame as I like both of them as well! Chill, people!
Petulans | 01.17.07 - 5:11 am | #

I am gross and perverted
Im obsessed n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you cant look away
I make you think Im delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin out
From your tv set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we dont need you
Dont got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

Thats right, folks..
Dont touch that dial
Jonsey J. Jones | 01.17.07 - 5:30 am | #

I figure if the likes of Rush Limpballs and the other neo-con losers like 24, there has got to be something really really wrong with it.
rmf | 01.17.07 - 5:31 am | #

"24" had an original concept. A 24 hour series in "real time" (over 24 or so weeks of course).

It is a bit over the top, with a super-hero secret agent, with evil super-villians, with the good guy's superiors either heroic, criminally negligent, dishonest, cowardly, or traitorious.

Think "Under Siege" and "Casino Royale" with 9/11 undertones. The Jack Bauer character can kick anyone's ass in a fight and unaccountably is the only character that can hit the side of a barn with a firearm.

It is pulp entertainment. Crap. But, so is much of TV. I don't see anything that sinister about it, if "24" is supposed to be FOX propaganda to promote the Iraq War, then it has failed, as Shrub's popularity has been in a free fall during "24"s run. besides, the public seems to be bored with it if the ratings are any guide.
Capability Jones | 01.17.07 - 5:46 am | #

It is a TV show and needs to be kept in context.

Actually, they have touched on some pretty sensitive issues (e.g. detainees, competence of intelligence, what is the "common" good) that the government does not appear to have a handle on.

Still, there are way too many commercials and the stuff of calling everyone on commercial cell phones is totally silly. They use FOX news because they don't have to pay extra copywright fees for it.
TR | 01.17.07 - 5:54 am | #

They keep you doped with religion and sex and TV....and you think youre so clever and classless and free.....

John Lennon
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 5:59 am | #

Love your site, but I can't believe the ignorance and the stupidity of this comment. This season of 24's entire thrust seems to be "even if the random people that you illegally detain, commit hate crimes against, or torture happen to be terrorists that are planning a devestating attack right now it's still WRONG." Watch and understand shows before you "deconstruct" their messages because otherwise it makes you look completely ignorant.

And furthermore, WHO CARES? Are the issues that actually affect Americans going so well that we have time to talk about a TV show?
limeymcfrog | 01.17.07 - 6:20 am | #

The Fox News logo is always a prominent feature of the show.

Yes, the message is torture is necessary.

Yes, in the nature of the case, the show chronically exaggerates the danger, and demonizes Islam and Muslims and, as we used to say in duscussions of profiling, Middle Eastern men.

This year it's pushing into cartoon territory, however, upping the ante on terrorism just as the whole country is finally getting over the pro-war, pro-neocon propaganda of The Islamofascist Menace.

Might not be a next year for 24.

Gripping show. Good writing.
gaius sempronius gracchus | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 6:21 am | #

Look, I've been watching the show from the beginning, and while it's very clear that the first impression one can get from the show is "red meat for Red Staters," you have to look beyond that first impression. "24" is pretty darned subversive -- under every apparent piece of propaganda for the Bush administration's agenda is a hidden message illustrating the folly of that agenda.

I provide spoilers, and I know a lot of you who have pre-judged the show won't care. But if you do, skip ahead.

The escapist central focus of the show is Jack Bauer, who will literally do anything he thinks is necessary for the love of his country -- and not the misguided "America Right or Wrong" jingoism we all decry. He protects America from all enemies foreign and domestic, including those within the government -- even at the highest levels.

Last season's plot revolved around the President being a seemingly ineffective and indecisive puppet of a shadowy cabal of neocons and former government employees who conspire to supply terrorists with WMDs in order to attempt to destroy them and further America's international influence -- a plan which is shown to be a colossal blunder. The President, who alternately channels Dubya and Nixon, ends up being an inside man in this conspiracy, and Jack Bauer must employ any number of tricks to secure evidence which will bring this president down. Members of the administration attempt to destroy some of the evidence, not because they are in on the conspiracy, but because they misguidedly think they are protecting America by allowing a corrupted man to remain in power.

The show is far from being racist -- many of the terrorists' allies end up being ordinary Americans in positions of power bribed to turn traitor to their country. The first 4 hours of this year had the terrorists calling for a mass release of prisoners from a Gitmo-esque camp to facilitate the actual escape of a single person. No particular judgment is passed on the other prisoners; however, at the same time, the head of the Islamic American Alliance is wrongly detained at a holding facility under patently absurd "enemy combatant" statutes -- and it is clear that this is a wrongful detention. Far from glorifying the "jail the brown people" mentality -- this show manages to present it as a reality and simultaneously get the message out that our Constitution is being shredded to make these things happen.

Look, Hannity and Limbaugh may soil their underwear getting off on the "gestapo fetish" aspect of "24", but these drug-addled and braindead have no idea what nuance is -- in their minds, all they understand is the "America Right or Wrong" aspect. They don't see beneath the surface, and they sure as hell don't realize that a 24-episode season of "appointment television" means that the subversive messages -- that our government's erosion of civil liberties has run amok; that shadowy government types pull the strings and make terrible decisions and try to pass it off as "necessary"; that when the President himself is so corrupt he loses sight of what America is all about, *he must be removed at all costs* -- these subversive messages get embedded in the brains of all who watch the show, whether they are conscious of it or not.

Propaganda? Maybe. But not the kind you think.

D
darylj | 01.17.07 - 6:23 am | #

Never watched it. And I don't know anyone who does. I still don't watch ABC, either.
I watch the local FOX 9:00 news because I got o bed early, but I do it on a regular tv (no satellite) so it does not help their ratings!
jeff | 01.17.07 - 6:41 am | #

To all those who patronisingly groan that "it's only a TV show":
Most people, on a sub-conscious level at least, don't realise that "it's only a TV show". In effect, it's not "only a TV show"; it's also propaganda.

I watched all of season one (and occasionally since) and "24" has certainly played its part in reinforcing the myth that "an arab is probably a terrorist".

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
an un-American | 01.17.07 - 6:58 am | #

Watch Idiocracy the movie and those of you defending Fox and 24 on TV will shut up.

Talk about a movie with "nuance". Idiocracy gets accross a much more important and profound message than 24; that we should not lower ourselves to the apparent intellectual level that surrounds us.
Kurt | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:01 am | #

Why is everyone talking about 24 when the top story on MSNBC is American Idol?
Kurt | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:08 am | #

haha 24 in no way shares the same political views as fox news. The only reason "fox news" was covering a news cast on the show is perhaps because FOX owns the show 24? Also if you watch season 5 the evil President Logan is obviously a metaphor for our President Bush. Just because a show says "FOX" on it, your shouldn't discriminate...give it a chance you'll love it.
Sean Bauer | 01.17.07 - 7:18 am | #

fugga buncha tv shows.
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 7:24 am | #

And this what I mean about the American IQ! A whole thread in a TV show. Bush must be laughing.

Give some porno. Nobody gets hurt and there is no violence.
No wonder Europeans countries are doing better than us.
garcia | 01.17.07 - 7:24 am | #

garcia - please believe me when I tell you that I've suffered through enough conversations about Celebrity Big Brother this past week to seriously pop your idea that 'Europeans are doing better than us' because they don't watch, or discuss... endlessly... rubbish tellie.
nonny mouse | 01.17.07 - 7:27 am | #

these would be good tv shows: Noah and his Ark, The Tower of Babel, and Lot gets the hell outa dodge.
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 7:28 am | #

What if TV had never been invented?
Kurt | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:29 am | #

What if the weak monkey hadnt gotten run out of his tree and then had to stand up to try to see the lions?
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 7:31 am | #

White Castle caused Achmed to go to the dark side.
buns and roses | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:31 am | #

When I finally decided to trash my TV at least 15 years ago, one of the major reasons I did so was that I was sick of being sold fear. It permeated broadcasting at the time, chiefly in advertising, news and such things as cop shows.

Advertising consumned 27 to as much as 40 minutes per hour, including pay channels such as discovery. Even the advertising that was humerous on it's face was selling fear: "buy our shit or you'll never get laid", "buy our shit or you won't be cool", "buy our shit or you'll never fit into the popular culture( which we created, by the way", "buy our shit or your kids will hate you", "tell your doctor about our drug if you don't want to die","buy our shit or you'll be an unloved dweeb", "buy our shit or you'll be stupid and people will laugh at you"...

News broadcasting too often started with of "6 foot 2 inch black male..."(be afraid), " White debutante missing (be afraid of 6 foot, 2 inch black male)... Be afariad of this...be afraid of that...Boogey man this. Terrorist that. I can only imagine what it's like 15 years later.

Cop shows. Ride around with the cops as they save the world from every kind of nasty villain whom we should should fear (and it set the cops up as knights in shining armor). MEanwhile the LA police department was setting new standards for brutality.

Fear, fear, fear. More fear. Be afraaaaaaiiid! An incescant, endless background noise of "be afraid". After a while, it turns into hypnosis. You don't realize how all-pervasive it is until you turn the TV off and leave it off for a while.

And now? I don't know. I don't watch TV anymore. But I can imagine. The show the ysbadadden references doesn't surprise, given how things progress over time.

Ask your brain care specialist about the possible benefits of trashing your TV.
Paul | 01.17.07 - 7:34 am | #

I watched 24 one season, the series about the bioterrorism. Then the 2004 election started picking up speed at which time I realized that 24 was a show meant to keep Americans afraid which was what Karl Rove wanted so I never watched the show after that one season. I view 24 as Ruppert's contribution to terror.
Coffins draped with flags | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:41 am | #

I've never watched the show, but I've heard that the wingnuts love it so that, of course, makes me suspicious. And I read that one of the show's actors, Mary Lynn Rajskub, is a wingnutter herself who has a thing for Rush Limbaugh. Ugh. Some of the comments here have helped me realize that there's more to the show than this. I still won't watch it (I only have time to invest in a few shows, and I just can't fit this one in), but thanks for your insights.
davidkc | 01.17.07 - 7:42 am | #

tv programming is based on the Fields's motto "Never give a sucker an even break, nor smarten up a chump." But then you see things like Ruby poking a pistol into Oswald's gut, if you happened to have been looking....it probably balances out somehow or another...
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 7:48 am | #

darylj - Somehow I can't get the image of Jack killing his partner just to appease the terrorists out of my mind. I believe that was season 3. No, just can't take a liking to a show that is so filled with violence... extreme violence.
Coffins draped with flags | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:53 am | #

[do not even THINK of starting a flame war with another poster.]

Edited By Siteowner
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 7:55 am | #

Its just TV.
I'll admit that I love the show but the point we should be making here is that the wingnuts are delusional by trying to base policy on fiction. I love James Bond too but I don't take it as reality.

By taking the tack that fictional TV like this is wrong for the just feeds into the rightwing mommy culture that Brent Bozell is trying to force on us. If Fox was saying this was a docudrama then we'd have a real issue.
Not Dick but Richard | 01.17.07 - 7:55 am | #

24 is just a TV show. Nothing more. Nothing less. FOX is a republican propaganda news channel. American Idol saves FOX's ass year after year.
simi | 01.17.07 - 7:56 am | #

Hmmm, "American people like Jack Bauer and his tactics on 24, therefore the American people like tough tactics...".

Let's see if where that logic can also take us...

"American people loved watching Shirley Temple dance in movies, therefore the American people loved dressing up in frilly dresses and cute hairdos and dancing across the living room." Well, that explains the rumors that went around about J. Edgar Hoover.

"American people liked the Lord of the Rings movies, therefore the American people approve of dressing in medieval costumes, riding around on horses, and chopping the heads off people and creatures they don't like." Gosh, I know I do, but my neighbors are getting sick of buying new pets.

"American people loved the movie Network, especially the ending, therefore the American people approve of assassinating TV commentators for fun, profit, and ratings." Given what Fox will do for ratings, Laura Ingraham may want to take a class on basic logic and rethink her theory on what kind of fiction the American people enjoy vs. how they view the real world.
Tom Woolf | 01.17.07 - 8:00 am | #

[Sorry, Coffins, but we had enough of flame wars yesterday. Stomping down hard today.]

Edited By Siteowner
Coffins draped with flags | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:05 am | #

no class for ingraham.
sturgeone | 01.17.07 - 8:07 am | #

I think working on it is destroying Keiffer Sutherland's reputation and fan base.

Too bad. He used to be a really talented guy.
Yellowbird | 01.16.07 - 11:56 pm | #

When was that? We aren't talking about his dad, who is a great actor.
BuelahMan | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:13 am | #

Over the years I have tried to watch the show. I just can't. It isn't that good, imo. Certainly not as good as many are saying here.
BuelahMan | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:16 am | #

..AlterNet wonders if "24" isn't both playing up the fear mongering and inuring us to the government torturing..

Not working on me. I haven't seen an episode of "24" and I'm sure I won't. I watch about as much tv "drama" as I do tv "News" channels. NONE... And Hey, I feel good about that.
Dean | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:17 am | #

"Really, 24 has become unentertaining, empty, soul-less facist crap."

An earlier post says this like it's a bad thing.

I think the tipping point that keeps me watching is that it is _sociologically_ interesting. Interesting precisely because Jack Bauer is a twisted sick puppy and he more-or-less knows it. That's a stock theme in the series, not really something that came up this season now that Jack has been taught some empathy toward torturees.

Contrast Jack Bauer with classic Bond, James Bond. James had a lot more fun. I think intro Soc classes of the future can watch 24 clips for some insight into the sinister and very unhappy American psyche of post 9/11.
smchris | 01.17.07 - 8:18 am | #

[second warning - do not try to start flame wars with other posters, or you will be banned. - site monitor]

Edited By Siteowner
garcia | 01.17.07 - 8:21 am | #

[three strikes and yer out. Goodbye. - site monitor]

Edited By Siteowner
garcia | 01.17.07 - 8:25 am | #

My husband and I have a particular friend/couple who we were never sure about on their political stance - I figured no big deal - we are pretty much the only liberals in our town anyway, it seems. Gotta get along. This pretty much cleared up a big mystery of ours recently, when we found out that "24" is their "absolute favorite show". Now I see why.

Kieffer Sutherland is becoming less and less of a mystery to me - and I can now understand him better after remembering that movie he did back in the 80's w/Dennis Hopper -- Flashback, I think. I can see now why he was attracted to the role - the whole idea of locking up a "commie pinko" must've done it for him.

Ugh.
Ginger Winchester | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:25 am | #

This whole comment section is hilarity at it's finest.
Pure mindless entertainment, which is necessary sometimes. If you want to waste energy debating an action show, go right ahead.
LMAO | 01.17.07 - 8:29 am | #

While all TVs in CTU and elsewhere are tuned to Fox "news", the president's lovely flat screen is tuned to CNN.
Jesse Langham

Well Hell, That makes it Liberal! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA...Not.
CNN = Conservative News Newtwork.
Dean | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:30 am | #

I've been a fan of 24 since the first season. It just gets better and better. I did see Keith's story on fear mongering and product placement. Fox News is on TV screens? Well 24 is on the Fox network. Give them a little slack on that. Fear mongering? Well to sort of paraphrase H.P. Lovecraft: Fear sells. Now I love Keith and I wouldn't say anything negative about his program but he's not a great critic when it comes to fiction. And fiction is what 24 is, almost to the point where it's almost totally absurdist fiction. Are we to shout conspiracy? Once we do that we're becoming like Bush, Cheney et al.
Phil | 01.17.07 - 8:37 am | #

Fear mongering? Well to sort of paraphrase H.P. Lovecraft: Fear sells.
Phil | 01.17.07 - 8:37 am | #

Oh, that's OK then.
an un-American | 01.17.07 - 8:39 am | #

Never watched it, never will. A lot of my con-servative friends tried repeatedly to get me to watch it...

My wife & I saw the Olbermann piece and it was dead/spot on. Its nothing more than a sensational right wingnut infotainment outlet to 'frighten the masses into submission'...

Yeah, its just a tv show...but unfortunately...like in elections...perception is reality for many and its everything for the question nothing crowd out there...

Its funny though...Donald is an unabashed liberal that was part of the anti-war movement in the 60s & early 70s...looks like the son just needs the work and doesn't mind taking the green from the Rupert Murdoch owned & operated Fox Corp...
Its funny...Family Guy & Simpsons pokes fun at everyone and takes its jabs at con-servatives...

This also reminds me of just how ridiculous the right wingnuts really are....

They believe that Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and many other Sci-fi shows are all about them...and their agendas...

Maybe they should do a little homework on the background of the creators & writers of the sci-fi shows...before coming to their idiotic conclusions...
right wing hater | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:39 am | #

When 24 first came on, I enjoyed it. After a while, I lost interest for the reasons you stated. I haven't watched it since the second season, I didn't watch the premiere and don't plan to watch it again. If I want to see the glorification of torture and fear mongering, I'll watch Faux News. It's too bad though, because I like Kiefer Sutherland. I hope he's not actually buying into that crap.
TruthSeeker | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:41 am | #

Daily Reading....

What your $1.2 trillion for Iraq could have bought instead: Medical research, tackling the problems of poverty and education, and the rebuilding of NOLA
- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/1...=rssnyt& emc=rss
An article that makes you want to kick the right wingnuts in the nuts and spit in their faces

Will Saudis Send in Troops to Iraq After Bush's Latest Failure Collapses? That's What They are Saying.
- http://www.attytood.com/2007/01/ ...anted_bush.html

Abramoff friend, Norquist, Christian Right come out against ethics bill - http:// blog.seattletimes.nwsourc...lobby_bill.html
Everyone remembers Norquist and the money changing between him & a sex crime pedophile....don't even start with the Megachurch God-for-profit life suckers

Bush's wimpy environment speech: Next week he's is likely to call for a massive increase in U.S. ethanol usage and tweak climate change policy while stopping short of mandatory emissions caps, sources familiar with White House plans said on Tuesday.
- http://today.reuters.com/news/ar...ENT.xml& src=rss
Don't worry...we'll rip it apart and expose the BS like always...its sure to be full of disinformation from ExxonMobil, CEI, and other Big Oil shillco fronts

'Prominent' conservative writes book claiming that the Left's culture is responsible for 9/11 -- way to be anti-American there, bud - http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01...nsible-for-911/
His last book, 'masturbating with power tools' didn't do so hot outside of the Southeast... Yep had nothing to do with Sultan Air Base, nothing at all
right wing hater | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:42 am | #

Tomgram: Klare, The Pentagon as an Energy-Protection Racket - http://www.tomdispatch.com/index...html? pid=157241

Tomgram: Klare, Is Big Brother in Your Energy Future? Part II - http://www.tomdispatch.com/index...html? pid=157744
Peak Oil...energy haves & have nots...future looks really bright if we don't become Energy Independent....

Derrick Jackson: Bush Should Resign from Presidency - http://www.insidebayarea.com/opi...ateo/ ci_5022801

Russia Sells Anti-Aircraft Missiles to Iran in $1 Billion Deal - http://today.reuters.com/news/ar...8&imageid=& cap=
The Pentagon had a closeout sale though too...and F14 Tomcat parts & Chinook Helicopter parts at prices that would have made ebay blush...

A Little Iran-Saudi Chess Game is Going on? Meanwhile Saudi Arabia is Sending Signals That It May Have Lost Confidence In Their Oily Friends, Mr. Bush and Cheney. - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ 20070...iran_saudi_iraq
Ah...isn't it great to be dependent on their Oil.....gee...what a way to make an economy run & grow...
right wing hater | 01.17.07 - 8:42 am | #

Seriously, I love Olbermann and your site adn can't stand this pres or administration more than anything, BUT, but there are a lot of liberals out there that are wigging out over this for no reason.

Is the show on Fox? Yes. Do they sometimes show Fox News? Yes, they have for five previous seasons. Has this show also included a president that was corrupt? Yes. Does the show do a good job of showing the pros/cons of many anti-terrorist tactics (diplomacy vs. torture for example)? Without a doubt.

From a TV show standpoint, there's been a "threat" of a terrorist bomb of some sorts four of the previous five years. The fact that one finally went off is actually a credit to the show. You can only tempt fate so many times.

And as previous people have said, NBC had the West Wing and it wasn't the most pro-conservative show either. But, like 24, it explored and brought up both sides to an argument.

Bottom line, I think some bloggers and Olbermann need to lighten up a little bit and put this in context.
Ray | 01.17.07 - 8:56 am | #

Spoilers

Season 1
Bunch of Rednecks try to assasisnate first black presidential candidiate, it later transpires that Serbians are behind the plot after a BOTCHED attack on their father by the US.
Couldn't you say this deals with blowback?

Season 2
Middle eastern terrorists plan o detonate a nuke in LA, Jack goe sundercover with a bunch of Timothy McVeigh types who are blowing up a Federal building. It later ends up the nuke atatck is being orchestarted by big oil companies to control oil in the caspian sea area. The president deploys the national gueard to stop attacks on muslims. A middle eastern agent helping the americans is killed in a racist attack.
This deals with homegrown terrorists and the role oil plays.

Season 3
This deals with biological components and with drug dealers, it also refers to the earlier botched operation in Serbia.

Season 4
Middle eastern terrorists plan a series of attacks, there are also some dodgy American politicians involved but this season wan't the best.

Season 5
Another biological attack is being planned, this time being orchestrated by a cabal of neo con types who the president (who looks very like nixon)is being controlled by, a former president is also assassinated by this group.

I'd say in this season torture will be prominent, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows that information gained isn't reliable. Anyone who thinks this is right wing propaganda is just as bad as people complaining about gay penguins!!
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 8:57 am | #

I agree with Ray. Some people really do need to lighten up. It's a damned TV show. Fiction. Get over it.
chris | 01.17.07 - 9:00 am | #

Fox is blocked on my TV except for football.
This is the only '24' that I've ever seen.
It made me wonder about state 'terror':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a...h? v=aD5N7cy6M4Y

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 9:07 am | #

[deleted]

Edited By Siteowner
One Humble Republican | 01.17.07 - 9:08 am | #

Yeah, this crap about 24 being a right wing or REpublican show is crap. Palmer is clearly the best President ever, and he was democrat. The Republican presidents have all been useless or evil. Jack Bauer is the star but breaks all rules and order because he knows what is right moreso than any other military or higher-up. Not to mention the plots these past few seasons have been about the Republican President attacking his own country to start a war and gain more power...and this year it is about an overzealous staffer illegally locking up muslims by going over the Democratic Presidents head.

If anything, the show is highly liberal.
Rosencrantz | 01.17.07 - 9:09 am | #

damnit kurt, you beat me to the punch.

everyone SHOULD watch "Idiocracy" by Mike Judge.

maybe then NO ONE will admit to watching ANYTHING on television.

i'm in the business so I can tell you this: television production schedules allow NO TIME for 'nuance' or balanced thinking. it's all determined in 'bites'(gotta blow something up right before commercial so you won't change the channel).

watching any so-called 'drama' on TELEVISION and calling it 'great' or even 'good' is like saying that marlboros are 'great' cigarettes because the most people smoke them.

.
new word otter | 01.17.07 - 9:12 am | #

Oh yeah...I saw this '24' too:
http://www.infowars.net/ articles...7TwentyFour.htm

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 9:12 am | #

it was in fact "Fear mongering"I watched it(for the first time)and all I got was pissed off.Typical fox mentality........
mudshark | 01.17.07 - 9:15 am | #

I guess Jack will die after this season as the nuke went off and Jack was pretty close to it. "Hundreds of thousands will die Mr. President". End of 24 as we know it. I've watched from season one and each season is a repeat from season one. Same plots, same torture, people die each episode. It's just a tv show that I personally have grown tired of. I could give a sh*t less who watches it.
FU Father Eisenman | 01.17.07 - 9:17 am | #

I have never seen 24 and was planning on possibly catching it at least once this season. Yesterday, CNN described 24 as " a neocon's dream." For some reason, the interest in watching the show was immediately gone. Everyone I was with you heard this description seemed to be a little embarrassed that they liked the show.

I have no desire to see a neocon's dream on TV. Has anyone experienced unintended peeing while watching?
ashton | 01.17.07 - 9:24 am | #

CL has nothing better to talk about then 24. The show should not be an issue. There are more things to talk about then TV show. Like perhaps the failures of this president and the destruction of this country. The Libby trail starting up perhaps. The article this morning that says 1.3 trillion was spent on the Iraq War.
Faithless | 01.17.07 - 9:31 am | #

"CL has nothing better to talk about then 24"

A website really doesn't talk and I don't think you decide what is or is not an issue. You are just not the decider.
ashton | 01.17.07 - 9:33 am | #

"24" got between 15 and 17 million viewers for the fifth season opener: the show's highest ratings ever.

This would put it behind "Desperate Housewives" which regularly gets an audience of over 25 million. I therefore conclude that a housewife is much more likely to favor screwing the gardener or the plumber than her husband is to favor torturing an Islamist.

Still lots of pumbers and gardeners are getting screwed and more than a few Islamists get tortured regularly.

Rather than indulge too much in total fantasy, I prefer to turn off the tube and screw the odd garderner and torture an occasional plumber in my basement dungeon/playroom.

Live and let live.
Homo say whaa? | 01.17.07 - 9:36 am | #

24; Never watched it, never will. No issue if you use your brain and stear clear of a made for television existence. Hell, watching George Bush speak is the most painful thing ever, who needs drama on top?
bilhelm | 01.17.07 - 9:41 am | #

Laura Ingraham you IGNORANT SLUT.
Dr. Acula | 01.17.07 - 9:45 am | #

Bush: Not A One-Trick Pony Anymore

actor212 | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 9:53 am | #

I stopped watching 24 after Jack's daughter went from being an incompetent babysitter to a computer wizard. That was even more incredible than having an African Murkin prez.
An Enquiring Mind | 01.17.07 - 9:55 am | #

Yeah, the transformation did not make sense. I have to admit I saw Teri Bauer as weak in season 1
TR | 01.17.07 - 10:04 am | #

Check out the movie, "Idiocracy". It's worth renting just for the first 4 minutes.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 10:14 am | #

Peace Ashton we are fighting the same battle my man. Lets not argue over a television show which you admit you haven't seen.
faithless | 01.17.07 - 10:15 am | #

Jesus f-ing Christ, it's a television show; and a highly enjoyable--though hardly realistic--one at that.

When people complain that the "netroots" lack respect and are treated as if they're the "tinfoil hat brigade", this is the reason why.

Additionally, Keifer Sutherland is the grandson of the most prominent socialist in Canada history and comes from a family with far left leanings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom...i/ Tommy_Douglas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Shi...Shirley_Douglas

Something, just something, tells me he probably wouldn't agree to star in an explicitly "neocon" fictional television drama (as ridiculous as that collection of words reads).
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 10:17 am | #

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Kald | 01.17.07 - 10:18 am | #

"24" is just presenting more fear monguering presented by Faux and is really boring.
Repub. Whore | 01.17.07 - 10:20 am | #

THE POINT ABOUT TORTURE IS CRITICAL!

Faux viewers and other paranoid, sadistic, racist, fascist types get off on the fantasy of doing something to 'the other' having their hatred justified by 'terrorism' and other labels like 'islamo-fascism'.

What is probably the greatest red herring is that this is all fantasy.

In the real world, DiKKK cheney, chimpy the shrub and condimelda were joined by JOHN BOLTON! in a media blitz to tell amurKKKa and the world that chimpy can do anything and it cannot be opposed by congress.

Just like the Nazis in the 30s and 40s, everything they do, every criminal and legally or constitutionally questionable act is in some way executed under the cloak of legality.

As the media fantasy keeps stroking us and telling us that it's ok.

It's for our protection.

I guess we're all supposed to be security moms.
bascombe | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 10:24 am | #

Television is propaganda and conditioning, and has been for a long time. It's not just limited to 24...

To me watching television is only interesting from a critical point of view. What patriarical/matriarchal message are they trying to push on me. The same goes for their network news.
1970cs | 01.17.07 - 4:08 am | #

Tinky Winky conditioned me to want a purple purse... and put window treatments up...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 10:32 am | #

ZOMG!1! The patriarchal television is mocking me again! Oh noes!
Anonymous | 01.17.07 - 10:39 am | #

it's only a matter of time before republicans cite Jack Bauer's struggle against terrorists as a reason for invading Iran.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 10:55 am | #

Faux viewers certainy do love to watch anything that portrays their favorite thing, terrorism, war and murder.
Fat-Ass Fattity | 01.17.07 - 11:02 am | #

What is the difference between the fantasy world of 24, and the fantasy world of mobile weapons labs, and uranium shipments from Niger?
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:06 am | #

well now i dont really have a dog in this fight, but! before the last election i think it was on msnbc they put on a tv series called, JERRICO , in wich they showed the city of denver colorado haveing been nuked, mushroom cloud in the far distence, people hearding together in confushion in the small town of jerrico colorado, the plot goes on , half the town scurrys into a mine shaft , the town sherrif blows up the interence to protect them from possible radiation , the rest hide in an old fallout shelter , but luckly the winds blowing away from jerrico , so the towns citizens are saved , later a black guy and his family who just moved there are focoused on , the black guys the only one in town who has a laptop computer that works and hes most probably in with the terriorists or a cia opperative , on his computer he recieves information that washington dc is gone ,atlanta , las angeles , tacoma and all major citys in the us gone ,poof, nuked , week after week the show moves forward , this is all leading up to the last election , the trailor showing the mushroom cloud over denver is shown at the movie theaters , and on tv , after the elections over so is the tv series , hardly any mention of that series on here other then my comments and a very few others , but some bull crap series like 24 gets everyone upset , whod a thunk it!
tyree | 01.17.07 - 11:08 am | #

The TV show "24" is produced by Fox and came on soon after 9/ll. One of the main themes of the show has been torture, and now the mushroom cloud. Pure propaganda to influence the American people -- with just a little liberal tossed in to show how fair they are --. Be very afraid America, Big Brother is in your living room.
Rufus | 01.17.07 - 11:17 am | #

Kurt | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 7:08 am | #

LOL..

BTW, the way I see it, we all have choices with what to do with our time, how much more time to do the things you want to do are you wasting by watching TV? What could you get done if you got that hour back? Write that book you have inside you? Spend time with your kids playing a game? Making Love with ?
It is your choice. I don't care if you watch 24. If you love it -- good for you. If you don't, good for you. If you think this is a stupid subject -- good for you. Everyone needs a diversion from time to time. I watch TV. And posting here is a diversion for me too. And I've been playing with most of you here in these threads, you just haven't realized it. But it's been fun. And it's been a fun topic... very amusing...
Liberty Lover | 01.17.07 - 11:19 am | #

Olberman's guest brought up a good point, the ticking timebomb excuse to torture people. This show is basically a Public Relations commercial for the torture lobby!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:23 am | #

It would take hours to demonstrate the various aspects of the show that appeal to people of each political persuasion... watch long enough and you'll find one you like. I'm and so sick and tired of people trying to pin 24 as some kind of neo-con fantasy. I'm a liberal and also a very big fan of 24, I guess I must have completely missed the alleged propaganda, neo-con brainwashing that is supposed to be rampant in the show... or maybe it never was there to begin with.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:29 am | #

"The TV show "24" is produced by Fox and came on soon after 9/ll." If you actually listened to Kiefer Sutherland talk about this, or knew anything about the show at all.. you would know that 24 was written long before 9/11 even happened. But I guess if you want the show to be something it isn't, you'll say anything to make it become that way. Yes torture is present in the show, but everyone involved always pays a price in the end... that's part of the theme throughout the show. The price that is paid for the things that have to be done.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:35 am | #

24 rides interesting ethical lines. I don't, despite the political leanings of the production staff, feel like it's right wing propaganda. And the presence of FOX News is merely cross promotion. Almost every show on FOX has FOX News clips (instead of, say, MSNBC) for obvious reasons. I always enjoy some 24.
drew | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:36 am | #

I could almost hear Bush's words echoing at the end of the series 2 hour premire...

"What will it take for Jack Bauer to continue the fight against the terraists... a mushroom cloud?!?"

(then Jack Bauer looks up to see Los Angeles destroyed by a mushroom cloud)
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:36 am | #

I heard in the next episode Jack Bauer defends his torturing of suspects amounts to nothing more than "a harmless fraturnity prank."
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:40 am | #

I also wanted to comment on all this talk about 24 being Fox fearmongering. Sorry, but as far as I know, Fox has no say into the plots of the shows they run. I would also point out that Fox is pretty notorious for airimg TV shows that their own NEWS station would criticize (remember that simpsons outrage?).

Since Fox owns the show, they use it to promote their own news station.

HOwever, 24 is not fearmongering to get attention. The show is about stopping terrorists and every single season there were threats of nuclear attacks. Hell, last season a nuke was launched and they somehow disarmed it in midflight or something weak. Frankly, I would have been rolling my eyes if they threatened this once again (6th year) and didn't follow through. The whole nuke threat was becoming a joke on the show I felt. It had to happen to take the show to the next level.

You may as well all be criticising Heroes too for hyping up a nuclear attack in New York. That is the plot of that show and nobody calls it fearmongering. 24 just gets a bad rap because of this insane media insistance that it is some sort of REpublican show.

I think this season is turning out to be one of the best yet (just like last season) beause of the use of real world elements in the story. It shows the creators are watching the news and working it into their show.
Rosencrantz | 01.17.07 - 11:41 am | #

Christopher, are you a staff member in Cheney's office? So, torture needs to be done, but there are consequences later? Haven't seen any real world consequences yet. "24" -- pure propaganda, even if you do enjoy watching it.
Rufus | 01.17.07 - 11:41 am | #

Toxic Sludge...is good for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6...h? v=6ee1_LHxA3A

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:43 am | #

Boy Rufus you sure don't listen do you? I said I was a liberal, I do not support the use of torture in REAL LIFE. In the fantasy world of 24 the use of is often needed for the purpose of the story and in the end a price is paid for that action. Often a very real and very profound one. So stop trying to act as if you know who I am or what I believe.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:43 am | #

Heh, heh, heh, smirk, Christopher wearing the liberal mask to fool us little people.
Rufus | 01.17.07 - 11:46 am | #

Oh yeah, I must have accidently voted for Kerry then in the last election? Or maybe it was pure imagination the time I voted for Chris Bell as governor of Texas instead of that lame fool Rick Perry. Ah yes, I must not know myself as half as good as you think you know me. Funny...

Hey, since I also love the X-Files does that mean I believe that aliens are among us or that I support the colonization of the Earth? Just curious...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:48 am | #

torture needs to be done in 24 just like in bush's america. It's amazing how quickly so called liberals comprimise their values in the name of entertainment. I suppose that is why so many of the alleged moral majority comprimise their values and support the bush administration. (because he's entertaining)
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:48 am | #

Seele, god this is like trying to explain geometery to a 1 year old. Enjoying a piece of fiction as portrayed on television does mean that I will support the use of that same action in the real world. And if you actually believe that then anything I might say will do little good at all. Do I deny there are idiots out there that will fall into that trap and support torture because Jack Bauer uses it on fictional villians? No, unfortunately there are people out there inclined to that. Just don't try to paint us all with the same brush.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:51 am | #

I'd like to see a poll taken to see the split between Republicans and Democrats that watch the show. My gues would be 70% of viewers are Republicns.
theWave | 01.17.07 - 11:55 am | #

In cheney's defense, he only got the idea to torture people by watching Jack Bauer use torture so effectivly on his television show.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 11:56 am | #

the fact the 24 producers went on their sex slave tour with rushbo and invited half-wit laura ingraham to the set should show you what the show's real pov is.

and donald sutherland was a major activist in the day.

go find a bootleg copy of FTA -- a concert documentary about him and jane fonda "entertaining" the troops in nam. it was released in the early 70's, but will never be officially released on dvd. it gives you some insight into his thinking -- before he started doing voiceovers for car companies.
christian | 01.17.07 - 12:00 pm | #

Seele, if that were true than Cheney would be an even bigger creep that I originally believed him to be. Following the logic that watching something on TV makes someone support and or perform that thing is equating us to little more than pavlov dogs.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:01 pm | #

christian, Did you see the cast of 24 react to Laura Ingraham's remarks about the show when Larry King put that very question to them? They didn't seem very supportive of her remarks... D.B. Woodside (Wayne Palmer) clearly did not agree with her. So two of the producer's are avowed conservatives... how many of the writers are not? How many of the stars are not? Why does it matter in the end?
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:05 pm | #

Seele, god this is like trying to explain geometery to a 1 year old.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 11:51 am

Quote of the century, seriously this topic is Crooks and Liars war on christmas.
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 12:06 pm | #

Thank you El Barto... once in a few hundred days I come up with some witty line that actually works. That'll keep me until the next witty remark surfaces in my brain in a month or two.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:07 pm | #

I think it's a stretch to say that 24 is promoting WH policies. It's fun and entertaining and I think anyone with 1/2 a mind can put reality on hold and just enjoy the show (yes, it does draw from reality but the show itself is entirely ridiculous). True, FOX is used by that's because it's on FOX. If it was on NBC then I'm sure MSNBC would be the network news show that is referenced.
seriously | 01.17.07 - 12:08 pm | #

Seriously, it's as if people missed the fact that during the premiere this season the characters that audiences are supposed to support and follow, the heroes we have come to know, are the characters speaking out against the illegal detainment of Muslim Americans and speaking out in support of the constitution. I do love Regina King's line about the White House Chief of Staff, "he treats the constitution like a list of suggestions." Hardly neo-con propaganda to me.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:09 pm | #

24 is THE BEST show on television right now. Don't be turned off by the fact that its from FOX. If anything, the writers and producers are not part of FOX news. Its an incredible show. Last year ended with the POTUS being arrrested for treason and removed from office. Get the whole FOX thing out of your head. and please, separate fact from fiction. This is a fictional show.
Waiting in Texas | 01.17.07 - 12:10 pm | #

MESSAGE: Torture ( it's OK)
MEDIUM:Television ( it's OK to do nothing)

Triumph of the [lack of] Will
mk ultramaroon | 01.17.07 - 12:11 pm | #

I personally can't hate the Fox network, they put my favorite show of all time on the air. (X-Files) How can I hate a network that supported a show like that for 9 years? Now, the O.C.... I can hate them for that, but that is another story entirely.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:12 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:09 pm

We don't get to see the new season in Ireland unitl next sunday, like I said above I think some innocent will be tortured and information just made up will be acted upon, or something like that, showing how inneffective it can be.
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 12:12 pm | #

El Barto, and just wait until you see the look in Jack Bauer's eyes when he does try to get information out of someone. What happened to him in China has changed him, another interesting and profound moment. But I won't spoil it for you. (Ireland huh? Always wanted to go there)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:14 pm | #

24 ---is just conditioning knuckledraggers. Most can't figure this out.Not too much different than the Nazi propaganda of the 30's.
. | 01.17.07 - 12:14 pm | #

Path to 9/11 was fiction, and the so called liberals were against it. 24 is fiction, yet the liberals are for it? yet another example on how easy it is to divide and conquor liberals.

"Cheers to Jack Bauer using torture to get his man, only hope those peacenicks in washington take a page out of Jack's playbook." says Limbaugh, and half the liberals i know.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:16 pm | #

I've known for a while that the creators of the show are Friends Of Rush, but until this year, it seemed like they were willing to put their politics aside in the name of a good story. I loved last season, largely for Peter Weller's performance, but also because the show wasn't afraid to question its own convictions.

Unfortunately, it looks like this year the writers have chosen to put the message first and forget about making the stories and characters compelling. For all the talk of civil liberties, they showed their true colors when the "victim" of anti-Muslim bigotry turns out to really be a terrorist. 'See, we're right, They Want To Kill Us' - you'd think Karl Rove was the head writer.

It's a shame, because there's real talent involved. But to what purpose?
Lee | 01.17.07 - 12:23 pm | #

If product placement/advertising is the norm in entertainment programming these days then why does the placement of ideology in entertainment seem so far fetched? Humans have proven to respond to this fear/desire conditioning easily.
. | 01.17.07 - 12:27 pm | #

By the way, not only is 24 rightwing propaghanda, it is also a steaming pile of crapola!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:28 pm | #

"they showed their true colors when the "victim" of anti-Muslim bigotry turns out to really be a terrorist." I'm sorry but that scene didn't make me feel sorry for the bigot, nor do I think it made other people feel sorry for him. That he turned out to be a bad guy was a typical 24 twist... something that is part of the show's makeup.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:28 pm | #

And don't write off the show yet, my god you've only seen 4 episodes... could you really tell what direction last season was headed by the 4th hour? The entire plot surrounding Logan wasn't revealed until more than half way through. Give them a chance, the writers are sure to surprise us as they have done before.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:32 pm | #

and to add to my comment regarding the "victim" turning out to be the bad guy... season 2 featured a muslim character who by mid way through was revealed to be innocent, while his little suburban fiance was the terrorist... they must not have hired Karl Rove on the staff until much later...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:34 pm | #

Dude, the show is crap! It's a wall to wall pro-torture, muslims-out-to-get us cheerleading for the bush administration. stop watching this fascist crap.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:35 pm | #

Oh please Seele, take a valium would you. Just by you saying that tells me that you haven't really watched the show at all, which is what so many conservatives do when they criticise entertainment. (Happy Feet anyone?)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:37 pm | #

and it's not entertaining. biting people to death is not entertainment. do the world a favor and turn off this crappy show.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:37 pm | #

Hey here's a riddle for you Seele... my wife is from France, just immigrated here a year and a half ago.... she is, like many in France, much more liberal than even most liberals here are. And she, by all accounts, loves 24 too. Wrap your brain around that one why don't you? (and the biting scene... made my wife cringe like no other I have seen before... which was the purpose of it I think)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:39 pm | #

go ahead and call me a 1 year old, go ahead and say i need drugs and that i am lying when i say i have watched the show, it still ain't gonna change the fact that you are getting enjoyment on a show that is the neocon bible.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:39 pm | #

This is by far the dumbest thread in the history of C&L.
You guys sound like lunatics. It's an entertaining fantasy show. It's got a fun dramatic device. It's not great art. It's not gov't propaganda. And if you're staring at a computer screen and feel the need to chime in on a TV thread about how brilliant you are because you don't watch television, then you're not quite as brilliant as you think.
And Keifer's and outed Liberal, but if he doesn't do every single thing in his life exactly like you SAY you would, then go ahead and throw him under the bus too. You can sit in your little self-satisfied cabin alone and masturbate to your own radiant image for all eternity. You are a God! For you have figured out how every single person should live their life!
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 12:39 pm | #

24 is crap
DKarma | 01.17.07 - 12:40 pm | #

the whole show is a cringe fest with the specific purpose of desensitizing the audience into thinking torture and vigilantism is acceptable, and you like it.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:41 pm | #

It's sad to see self-proclaimed liberals loving this rightwing crap, but it's expected given how easy liberals turn on one another.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:42 pm | #

I like it for the compelling characters and the intense drama that only keeps building as the clock keeps ticking. (the drama of Jack's family will soon come later on in the season) but if you want to view the audience as a group of drooling Pavlov Dogs that are waiting to act on any image fed to them, that's your own fault... not mine.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:43 pm | #

That's a fair comment, Christopher. After all, they've admitted before that they're making it up as they go along. The writers haven't even figured out how it's going to end.

But setting political issues aside for a moment, I felt like the writers were trying too hard to cram as much action as possible into the first few hours (even more than I remember from last season, which - despite the death of two major characters before the first commercial break - took its time to get to the attack on CTU, which wasn't nearly as horrific as what we saw Monday night). There's a risk that we'll see a lot more filler in the season to come. Pacing is always something to watch out for here.
Lee | 01.17.07 - 12:43 pm | #

in the words of Fox Mulder, "not even Must-See TV can do that."
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:44 pm | #

and whatever badairguitar is talking about... well, i'll just leave that comment alone before someone in this post wants to torture me!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:44 pm | #

and it's not entertaining. biting people to death is not entertainment. do the world a favor and turn off this crappy show.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:37 pm | #

Newflash, if biting people to death wasn't entertaining Bram Stoker wouldn't be a household name and there'd no such things and vampire movies.

It damn sure was entertaining! Jack Bauer is the man and 24 is a great show. If people are unnerved by it it's because some, not all or even most, of it's premises are plausible.

I feel where everyone is coming from and perhaps it has some incendiary elements, but the truth is it's entertainment. Though I've brought particular episodes of 24 as illustrations of why I believe torture isn't something that should just be unilaterally taken off the table in EXTREME situations 24 didnt' convince me. I already thought that.

It's a tv shoow and I think there are far more shows or movies that have been irresponsible in their illustrations. Like Sleeper Cell on Showtime and there were a couple of bird flu epedemic tv movies that were just blatant pandering to fear.

I do however find it interesting that Dems scream and show about freedom of speech but then bitch and complain and demand something be removed when the speech is used to say something you don't like. You want the best way to effect 24? Don't watch it.

This is a capitalist society and if fox stops making money of 24 because it has low ratings it'll go the way of the dinosaur.
Train | 01.17.07 - 12:45 pm | #

Lee, I'll agree that they did put a lot of big moment action pieces in the opening of the show but what I and I am sure most people are looking forward to is the drama revolving around Jack's family. That is where I think the writer's will shine and the actors will really sink in to their parts. Hey, sometimes a show needs an explosive beginning before we get to the real meat of the story.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:46 pm | #

Well, I signed on for all of last season on the basis of Peter Weller. This year they have James Cromwell as Jack's father, and that may be even better.
Lee | 01.17.07 - 12:47 pm | #

OK, time for me to give Christopher some slack. It is possible for a liberal to enjoy "24", but I'm afraid most of the great unwashed American TV audience is not as astute as Christopher. Remember, some of our citizens don't know who won our civil war (think blue coats), or what country is to the immediate north of us (think Canadian bacon). For those,
torture is a good thing and "24" reinforces their beliefs.
Rufus | 01.17.07 - 12:48 pm | #

and then there is Powers Booth playing the VP. Can't dare miss any show where a guy from my hometown is in. (and Powers Booth in Deadwood was fantastic)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:48 pm | #

"It's sad to see self-proclaimed liberals loving this rightwing crap, but it's expected given how easy liberals turn on one another."

You see the irony in your statement, correct? You're insulting "fellow liberals'" intelligence because they like a fictional television show, then you complain that "liberals turn on one another."

How does your own tail taste?
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 12:48 pm | #

what bs about 'wait till jack's family shows up'! whats gonna happen, his family will be kidnapped, and jack will have to torture someone to find out where they are held captive?

Going on, and on about how great this crap is, when on the same token you go on and on about how bad it is when Dick Cheney does it! Thats hypocracy!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:49 pm | #

and then there is Powers Booth playing the VP. Can't dare miss any show where a guy from my hometown is in.

That's how I felt last year - Weller attended high school in my hometown.
Lee | 01.17.07 - 12:49 pm | #

Rufus, I won't deny there are people out there like that and those are the people I avoid like the plague. But if you had to remove television shows and movies because of how that group of people might respond... there would be nothing on to watch. *lol*
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:49 pm | #

Rufus | 01.17.07 - 11:17 am |

Wrong. 9/11 happened in the middle of season 1.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 12:50 pm | #

badairguitar - you should stick to calling me names like saying i am masterbaiting in some shed in the woods.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:50 pm | #

Seele, give it a rest. Aren't we liberals supposed to be OPEN-MINDED?
Lee | 01.17.07 - 12:51 pm | #

Purple Patriot, yes but the show and the idea was crafted BEFORE 9/11... Even Kiefer Sutherland said that.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:51 pm | #

Christopher_S - the whole point of my attacking this show is it reinforces neocon beliefs that torture works, and shoot first ask questions later.

Cheney used the same fantay to sell the iraq war that 24 is using now, yet you say cheney is bad, but 24 is good? Why because 24 wasn't acted on, like cheney's fantasy was?

I dare to say a war hasn't started because of the latest 24 fantasy... YET!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:53 pm | #

And James Cromwell should be stellar as usual.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:53 pm | #

As bad of a leader as the President and Vice President are Seele, I wouldn't for a moment think they get their ideas from watching 24. I believe they do what they do because they truly believe it is right. They are bad of course, but not that bad.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:55 pm | #

Tons of Fox TV shows have Fox News clips. 'Arrested Development' had tons - "There's a wolf on the loose. What does that mean for your weekend?". The same actor actually plays the anchor in '24'.

It's part of Murdoch's entertainment/news strategy. In my opinion, local Fox TV news has more entertainment news than most stations. Every Sunday night, my local channel runs a story about 24 and when American Idol gets back in full swing, it will be treated similarly.
jared | 01.17.07 - 12:55 pm | #

Jared, it already has here. But we probably got a head start since S.A. is one of the audition cities (the opening of '24' got similar play for the same reason).
Lee | 01.17.07 - 1:00 pm | #

The critics here are correct. Also, I am no longer going to watch Westerns (guns), war movies (killing), pornos (someone could die from a VD), comedies (making jokes could hurt someone's feelings), documentaries (reality is inherently changed by the action of filming itself and therefore untrustworthy). Life is going to be fun. I can wrap myself in my own smugness to stay warm.

*and I would be cheering if someone bit Bush's throat out.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:00 pm | #

and then there is Powers Booth playing the VP. Can't dare miss any show where a guy from my hometown is in. (and Powers Booth in Deadwood was fantastic)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:48 pm |

Powers Booth also played the Rev. Jim Jones in the Guyana tragedy. Yet another fact to prove that Fox is supporting the religious right agenda.

And Peter Weller played an out-of-control copbot killing machine. Another fact that Fox supports right-wing, police-state ideals.

Seriously, Peter Weller's series on The History Channel, "Engineering an Empire" is very good. You should check it out if you're into history and well-made docs.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:00 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 12:51 pm |

We were making the same point in rebuttal to above misinformation. We agree.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:01 pm | #

Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:00 pm | #

"Engineering an Empire" is fantastic. Good call.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:02 pm | #

Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:53 pm |

I'm convinced you are a closeted neo-con. Your tactics give you away. You make uninformed, inaccurate conclusions. Then, when specific points are raised to rebut your points as false, you simply ignore them and stick to your talking points.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:03 pm | #

Another fan of Engineering an Empire here.
Lee | 01.17.07 - 1:07 pm | #

If torture, violence and deceit are in your heart then you'll be entertained by these images and ideas. Might want to ask yourself why?
. | 01.17.07 - 1:09 pm | #

badairguitar - you should stick to calling me names like saying i am masterbaiting in some shed in the woods.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 12:50 pm |

We could care less about your fishing prowess. I have other hobbies myself that I enjoy and am very good at, masturbation for instance. But I'd hardly take that as an insult.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:10 pm | #

Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:10 pm | #
Point taken. I did not intend to insult masturbators. We are doing the Lord's work.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:11 pm | #

My comment speaks more to the slaying of the spelling by Seele.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:12 pm | #

. | 01.17.07 - 1:09 pm |

In your world, I would be a Nazi anti-semite because I love the movie "Schindler's List".

Which of course is absurd. I love it because of the messages and lessons for the human spirit that are born from the images of horror.

[Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in your head at the same time, and still be able to discern and continue functioning.]

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:15 pm | #

If torture, violence and deceit are in your heart then you'll be entertained by these images and ideas. Might want to ask yourself why?
. | 01.17.07 - 1:09 pm | #

I can't just be a person that's easily bored?
I have to have a torturous, violent nature?
I don't buy that argument. It's too simplistic. I think every area of existence can be interesting and should be explored. If I liked THE WOODSMAN would that make me a child molestor?

P.S. I didn't like THE WOODSMAN. It was pretentious.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:16 pm | #

i see this show as a defining moment in our modern society. Previous most popular shows in the past were 'Cheers' then 'Seinfeld' then 'Friends' then 'Fraiser' but today our shows are not about relationships, or about funny anicdotes as a diversion to everyday life.

Our popular shows today are about violent bloodbaths, torture, sensless killing, murder and meyhem. Where canibalism and atomic war are the anicdotes.

This 24 show is terrible, and in an age where the dixie chicks are boycotted, the fact this prowar, protorture, virtually pro-armegeddon bullcrap is touted as a great show is pathetic. Shame on you!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:18 pm | #

d'you | 01.17.07 - 1:16 pm |

You missed it; it was already on. It was called "Election Night 2000".

They did a sequel in 2004.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:18 pm | #

I dare to say a war hasn't started because of the latest 24 fantasy... YET!
Seele

What will it take to prove that, a mushroom cloud, enjoy your War on 24(christmas)
El Barto | 01.17.07 - 1:21 pm | #

Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:18 pm | #

Who are you to shame anyone?

By the way, the characters on SEINFELD were narcissistic, self-involved, and completely unfeeling toward their fellow man.

And WAR OF THE WORLDS was first broadcast in 1938.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:21 pm | #

Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:18 pm |

You imply that this is a new phenomenon. Wrong again. Bad guy's trying to kill us has been a plot line since the beginning of movies, tv, plays, etc.

If your stance is that pop culture has become too violent, then that is a fair position. I feel that pop culture has been over-sexualized kids.

But I don't pretend that sex and violence are new phenomenons to pop culture. They've been there from the dawn of man.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:22 pm | #

there ain't no sex in 24
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:23 pm | #

there ain't no sex in 24
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:23 pm |

Again, you've proven you haven't watched the show.

..
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:24 pm | #

Shame is cast by those wishing to avert their eyes inwardly.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:25 pm | #

FANS OF 24: ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLL LLEEE!

People who don't watch the show yet trash it on the basis of three or four clips which may or may not skew to a more conservative view of things are data-mining, i.e. emphasizing the parts they don't like to make their point while completely ignoring the parts that contradict it.

Hmmm......Who has been accused of data-mining recently in the past?

Perhaps someone. Maybe two very powerful men who have been vilified on this site. I forget their names.....
Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:26 pm | #

This has been fun. But, alas. I must continue to work so I can pay my exorbiant broadband bill.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:26 pm | #

where is all the sex in 24? Because sex is totally against the neocon teachings, i would be interested to hear if there is any sex in that crappy show.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:27 pm | #

no kidding Just Playin'
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:28 pm | #

Never ... never put a wonderful word like "porno" next to a vile word like "neo-con" again.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 1:28 pm | #

Here is the answer about 24...

http://www.infowars.com/ articles...r_on_terror.htm
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 1:30 pm | #

Did anyone see last year when Jack held the POTUS at gunpoint and basically delivered an anti-Bush diatribe to his f*cking face. It was very cathartic and very pointed.

Your knee-jerk reactions to things you're ignorant of do more damage to the public perception of "liberals" than a million Rush Limbaughs ever could.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:31 pm | #

Sometimes TV does reflect today's society:
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmar...03/ protest.html
*I don't watch 'Boston Legal' either.

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:31 pm | #

Why are we having a debate about 24 with people who don't watch 24?
Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:34 pm | #

nice picture chuck, yeah saying 24 isn't rightwing bs is like saying saddam had wmd.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:34 pm | #

Here is the answer about 24...

http://www.infowars.com/ articles...r_on_terror.htm
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 1:30 pm | #

Wow. Very fairly written article. Propoganda is propoganda, Chuck.

The fact is that the creators of the show are admitted conservatives, but are not supporters of the current conservative regime. Kind of like how I'm a liberal, but not supportive of unethical reporting, as found in that article, just to further my political cause.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:35 pm | #

I started watching "24" when it first appeared, and I watched the second season too. But, I just deleted it from my "Season Pass" and will not watch it this year. I did notice that a lot of torturing went on and that it provided results, but that is TV, not the real world. But, too many people are susceptible to thinking of it as real, rather than fiction. It is something to ponder, why haven't those "censors" complained about all the violence in this show, as compared to showing a little boob during half time at a football game.
CalGal | 01.17.07 - 1:39 pm | #

No kidding CalGal.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:40 pm | #

Television is political, watch some commercials during election season if you disagree.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:41 pm | #

The reason they torture in 24 is because every single situation is a ticking time-bomb scenario (i.e. there's a bomb about to go off and the man in custody knows where it is).

Since there isn't a SINGLE INSTANCE in real life of this scenario playing out, any person with half a brain can dismiss whatever "case" 24 tries to make for torture and sit back and enjoy the show.

I love how we're being lectured by people who admit that while they don't watch the show, they take the message of it dead seriously. Then when we call them out for how ridiculous that is, they say "well....you seee I'M smart enough to know that, but I'm just afraid that the rest of the teeming unwashed masses won't have the sophistication that I do and won't grasp the underlying message or non-message."

Even though the exact opposite is what has just happened.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:44 pm | #

this whole show is crap, why was Bauer kidnapped by the chinese? because of THE RED MENACE? This is fear mongering fascist bullcrap, and people who enjoy this snuff should seriously examine why they think this iraq war and bush's war on the constitution is so bad afterall.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:45 pm | #

CalGal | 01.17.07 - 1:39 pm | #

I get your point. But I've always been uncomfortable with curbing behavior based on what the stupidest person would do. That's how we get hair gel bans, manditory shoe removal, etc...
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:45 pm | #

Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:44 pm | #

Exactly.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:46 pm | #

CalGal-

You mean just like how some people equate dissenting opinion with treason?

I guess sites like Crooks and Liars should be taken off the net because "people could get the wrong impression".

Honestly, that's their fault. Not ours and not 24's.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:48 pm | #

"any person with half a brain can dismiss whatever "case" 24 tries to make for torture"

over 50 million people voted for bush in 2004. You say we should sit back and enjoy the show, just what are you talking about, the show 24 or the bush administration?
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:53 pm | #

Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:53 pm

I think he was talking about the show.
Wait, wait. Yep. It was the show. You can just scroll back up and read it. You can use the arrows on the side of the window. Click on the one that looks like this: /
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 1:58 pm | #

And if any of them used "24" as their justification for voting for Bush (not like you could actually ever prove that even an insignificant amount did), that's more of a comment on their stupidity than it is a comment on 24, which, to anyone who has ACTUALLY watched it, has portrayed it's Democratic Presidents as strong willed heroes and it's Republican Presidents as weak, unsure leaders.

Too often on this site things are simply not 100 percent liberal are cast as conservative. If you watch 24 you'll find instances of liberal and conservative points being made and-get this: IT'S LEFT UP TO THE VIEWER TO MAKE UP HIS MIND! Novel freaking concept eh?

Personally, if Jack Bauer tortured someone and then got bad intelligence, and then faced the camera and said "You see America: TORTURE DOESN'T WORK!" it would be a horribly boring show and people wouldn't watch it.

And obviously, I was talking about the show.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 1:59 pm | #

It is something to ponder, why haven't those "censors" complained about all the violence in this show, as compared to showing a little boob during half time at a football game.
CalGal | 01.17.07 - 1:39 pm

Remember,
we now live in a post-Britney's-cooze world.

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 1:59 pm | #

This question is for the [site monitors]:

Am I to understand that when Nicole Belle opens up the comments section to see how her readers have reacted to her post, that all criticisms of her are scrubbed away so that she never has to face someone saying "I don't think you know what you're talking about"?

This is an honest question that is deserving of more than a condescending answer (i.e. "stop trying to be a martyr").

Why can't I post that I believe Nicole Belle doesn't do a very astute job of analyzing pop culture? Is that such an incendiary charge that it has to be deleted?

Perhaps you could word it more like that rather than hurling insults? Let's give that a try.

Edited By Siteowner
Derek | 01.17.07 - 2:08 pm | #

Derek - don't kill the messenger.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:12 pm | #

man these bushistas love their 24! don't worry neocons, cheney will torture all those liberals who are repulsed by torture and war propaghanda in the end.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:14 pm | #

[deleted]

You're trying to backpeddle now. One doesn't have to call someone a name to be insulting. Your post was insulting, end of story.

Edited By Siteowner
Derek | 01.17.07 - 2:15 pm | #

Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 2:14 pm
Here come the names. Bushista? For one it's not true. For another thing it's not even catchy. You have no arguement. Wanna call me a name? Fine. Whatever you label yourself. Mark me down as the opposite of that. I'll label you: Simpleton.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 2:20 pm | #

I think you guys are over-reacting a tad. It's a TV show, and a very entertaining one at that. I honestly don't think it only appeals to Republicans and I've rarely heard it talked about by any fans in a political light.

So settle down people, it's entertainment. No different than any other action/spy movie that's been made. Just enjoy the fantasy.
Sean | 01.17.07 - 2:21 pm | #

And the arguement continues... Is Seele still under the belief that he and he alone can detect who is and who is not a true liberal?
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:29 pm | #

Hmmm...saw this on Keith last night as well, and I have to say I am more than a little disapointed with the tenor. This is usually the realm of the nut-ball right. You guys need to step away from this before you look any more rediculous than the first impression.

Some notes: none of you were yammering about Alienware and Cisco. "Huh?" you say. My point exactly. If you are geeky as I, you would have likely noticed the obnoxious placement over the years of both Alienware systems and Cisco imagery. Overt, rediculously obvious product placement is one of the failings of the show.

The first season was taped prior to 9-11. One of my critiques is that much of 24 is recycled from the previous installment. They were coming up with this stuff prior to this country's hysteria and have simply kept with a working formula. They cannot be blamed for reality resembling their fiction.

Some of the most significant 'good guys' are obvious, unabashed "liberals".

The protagonist is motivated by true patriotism and is always working in the best interest (as he interprets it) of the country. This includes going against hawks and conservatives.

Knocking a company for placing its own product in a show its producing is little more than displaying one's ignorance of simple reality and a dismissal of common sense. Why in the world would Fox plug CNN on a show they own? They also put in a fictional news agency (can't remember what the call letters were, but it was an obvious representation of CNN, but they certainly weren't gong to put "CNN"). If Fox did not use the Fox News banner, I would be far more curious and suspicious as that is not very self-serving and would be curious in deed.

Is this show a hawk-conservative's wet dream? Absolutely. Does that mean it is hawk-conservative propoganda? That line of logic is flawed at its foundation.

Claiming a Teletubby is recruiting gays is just silly. This dust up over a 6 season show is not far behind that. I get very angry every time the right threatens my entertainment based solely on the fact that they do not agree with the message or content.

...and here, now my 'alies' are getting dangerously close to doing the same thing.
J. | 01.17.07 - 2:29 pm | #

J, yes it is quite easy to fall into the trap which so many conservatives often fall into when criticizing entertainment choices they feel support (whether true or not) a message they do not agree with.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:31 pm | #

J. | 01.17.07 - 2:29 pm | #

I think you've successfully ended the discussion for me. Well done.
As Colbert would say, "Moving on . . ."
bill o'reilly's fevered brain | 01.17.07 - 2:33 pm | #

So does pop culture entertainment reflect mass culture or create it
???
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:34 pm | #

sorry.
bill o'reilly's fevered brain | 01.17.07 - 2:33 pm | #
was me. that was a tag to a line in another forum.
24 junkies should check out the recaps on Television Without Pity.
Funny sh!T
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 2:36 pm | #

You take from entertainment whatever personal beliefs and prejudices you have with you already, you see those things which you want to see and often overlook the rest. I guess that is part of what makes any art form so appealing, its ability to be all things to all people.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:38 pm | #

Look hard enough and you can find your own personal beliefs embodied in the characters of David Palmer or his brother Wayne... look a little closer and you might find your own views reflected in the new Chief of Staff or god-forbid even that weasel of a president Charles Logan. Look hard and long enough and a show like 24 can be a liberal love-fest or a conservative sex fantasy... depending on which eyes you look through.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:42 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:38 pm

As a five year old, I did not have much of an opinion on the world but i must say that watching Bugs Bunny cartoons influenced my views quite profoundly. Can neocon entertaiment not do the same thing? I am sure Rove and all of the Talabaptists think so.
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:43 pm | #

My understanding is that the final episodes of the season will reveal Jack Bauer’s discovery of a Right-wing fascist cell deeply entrenched at the highest levels of government that has been using proxies and moles to manipulate him as a patsy into accepting a reduction of civil liberties in exchange for more security from terrorism. But alas the nuclear bomb’s detonation triggers all the covert police state legislation passed while everyone was watching TV and the constitution is suspended and Jack is prevented from stopping the bad guys over the concern that he and his family will be put into detention camps.
It’s the new Hollywood ending.
(...our broadcast now resumes its regularly scheduled programming...)
mk ultramaroon | 01.17.07 - 2:44 pm | #

Firstly, if people are that weak willed that a fictional entertainment show can influence their beliefs in a profound way than someone should monitor and restrict how much they are allowed to watch. Otherwise the fault lies not with the show but with the viewer who cannot grasp the difference that exists between the fictional world and the real one.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:45 pm | #

Chris, thnk about how dumb the average guy is and then realize that according to the math, half the population must be dumber than that.
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:48 pm | #

And I'm speaking about adults in that instance... children responding to television shows is something entirely different. Watching the Power Rangers often made my younger brother believe he could fight as insanely as they did... you have to blame that kind of behavior on the pitfalls of being 8.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:48 pm | #

Well I can't argue with that point Chuck, but does that arguement call for the restricting of what kind of entertainment choices are available? Would that not leave us with very little to choose from? I wonder what those same type of viewers might do in response to seeing the very despicable deeds of Al Swearengen on Deadwood? The question can be asked about nearly ever show on TV today... when do we accept that the fictional world does not always have influence upon the real one? (if it ever does at all)
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:51 pm | #

Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:43 pm |

Let me be the first to say that I am glad you, as a five year old, survived that shotgun blast to the face when you looked down the barrel of that animated shotgun to see why it wasn't firing.

Be careful when you get to Albuquerque. It's very confusing and can lead to the taking of a wrong turn.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 2:51 pm | #

For me, 24 represents an escape from reality. It's a TV show! It is not reality by any stretch of the imagination. The people that confuse the two clearly have issues with either 1)their intelligence or 2)not getting out of their house. When I watch the show, I get into the characters and the representation of the President and his Cabinet are supposed to be what we think of as our President and our Cabinet. We are supposed to think they are honorable and that they are looking out for all of us and trying to protect us. Unfortunately we all know that this is not the case at present. 24 allows us to be reminded of the type of government we yearn for and deserve as Americans. Our elected officials should strive to be as noble and honorable as their ficitional breathren. Instead, they are the ones that might be potentially planning terrorist attacks in our country to feed their own agenda and manipulate the public.
Umberto | 01.17.07 - 2:52 pm | #

I agree with everything Christopher is saying. (wish I'd gotten in on this earlier) I'm an unabashed liberal and a huge fan of 24 specifically because of the reasons people claim its bad. I love how over-the-top the plots seem and how obviously dysfunctional the character relationships are. But I'd like to add that Jack Bauer is acting out the necessity of saving lives and not for some ideal of patriotism. It makes his character more "immediate" (for lack of a better term). Also, think of how much Jack Bauer has been through--his daughter wants nothing to do with him, he's lost his wife, he's lost a new relationship, he's been sent to China to be tortured, and now he's just shot one of his most loyal friends. I like that in this season the point comes up that maybe he just can't do this anymore.
And Mary Lynn Rajskub is superb. Somebody posted earlier that she was a neo-con. The woman dated David Cross! Watch more Mr. Show!
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 2:53 pm | #

Purple Patriot, I once suffered from what I called the Albuquerque Curse... which resulted in that every time I drove through that city on a trip I always happened to drive through during a tremendous storm or on one occassion was run off the road by an 18-wheeler. Does that count? *lol*
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 2:53 pm | #

I strongly recommend anyone who is looking for a show with a more reality-based message to turn on "Bones" (also on Fox, alas). The "Bones" writers are very sly about it, but they manage to address topics in a very nuanced, realistic way.

For example, in regards to diplomatic immunity, agent Boothe pointed out:

1) that it's important to observe diplomatic immunity, because the lives of American diplomats overseas could hang in the balance,

2) that if a diplomat abuses diplomatic immunity, he can be denied permission to remain in the United States,

and

3) that the U.S. can provide evidence from an investigation to the diplomat's country, and they may just follow up with their own prosecution (which could lead to considerably stronger penalties than are allowed by U.S. law).

So, "Bones" is firmly in the reality-based community, and it also has great stories and interesting relationships between the characters. It's smart and funny. Great show.

Contrast "Bones" with "Shark", which constantly hammers the audience with the idea that all defense attorneys are scum.

"24" is a mixed bag. In many cases, they seem to advocate the idea that torture works, but I think it was last season, when an innocent person was almost tortured (Bauer's girlfriend). Also, the incompetent president on "24" sure looked like a jab at president Bush. I wish that the writers wouldn't get so hung up on nuclear bombs. Some of the best story lines in the show involved the internal politics of CTU and Homeland Security, as well as the interpersonal relationships and hang-ups of the major characters.

This season, at least a couple of the major characters on "24" have voiced opposition to setting up internment camps for arab-americans. Part of the threat of the terrorism they are fighting is that it will unleash the fascist wackos in the government. This is a fairly liberal idea.
Paul | 01.17.07 - 2:54 pm | #

mk ultramaroon, that ending is my worst nightmare, seeing the end of freedom in fiction makes it much more possible to at lease not be surprised by it in reality. Then when 24 becomes real, the powers that be can call you a comspiracy theorist who watches too much television, just like the Lone Gunmen episode that predicted 911.
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:54 pm | #

Purple Patriot...ROTFLOL
Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:56 pm | #

Nobody is backpeddaling!

Weren't blogs like Crooks and Liars created for the very purpose that the mainstream media powers that be (i.e. George Will, David Broder, Tom Friedman) became to thin-skinned and resistant to criticism? So "regular" guys like John Amato made a website because they were shut out of the mainstream discourse?

And did they not then proceed to hurl insults at George Will, David Broder, Tom Friedman and many other mainstream journalists far more personally than the ones I supposedly hurled at Nicole ?

The irony of the leaders of "people-powered movement" unable to take criticism from the people who power their movements is fairly rich. As is you continually deleting my posts when I'm not calling anyone names. If me pointing out this contradiction is "insulting" to you, then just say "We can't take criticism" and then ban me, I guess.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:03 pm | #

Chuck | 01.17.07 - 2:54 pm |
I think Orwell was right about the disturbing pliancy of the average person.
Today's TV is Winston's oily gin.
Keeps the sheeple placated, happy and submissive.
mk ultramaroon | 01.17.07 - 3:05 pm | #

pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 2:53 pm | #

Thanks for taking up for Mary-Lynn. She's a badass. Every time things get overly-dramatic (which is every 3rd minute) I envision her throwing that baby on the ground, screaming "Suck my d!ck," and stomping off (with the first stomp being on the baby's face).

Good stuff. Her stand-up is funny too.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 3:14 pm | #

And here's to hoping that the writers of 24 do the smart thing and keep Mary-Lynn on for as long as the show is on.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 3:18 pm | #

I find Chloe to be extremely annoying. I was pretty upset when the writers decided after season 3 to make her a "good" guy and thus positioned her character on the correct side of every crisis. I miss the characters from Season 1 and 2. Guys like George Mason and Ryan Chapelle, who weren't good guys or bad guys, and had their share of flaws but were ultimately trying to keep the country safe.

Those guys have been wiped out and replaced by guys like Bill Buchanan, who is extremely boring a one-dimensional.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:21 pm | #

I think she became popular as Cloe for a reason. Every other major female character on the show is overly glamorous. So add to her unique looks her ability to be anti-social in the face of so much "normalcy". A real talented woman, that one.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 3:24 pm | #

Me I'm still waiting to see Powers Booth make his first appearance. Why do I get the feeling he might not be the kind of guy you can trust completely?
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 3:26 pm | #

Maybe. I just find her personally annoying, especially her constipated face. I've resigned myself to the fact that the writers intend to keep her as a mainstay on the show. But hey, who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and CTU will be attacked by nerve gas again.....
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:27 pm | #

Oh, sure, she is annoying, but I guess that's what I like. It's a different kind of annoying than, say, being annoyed that the hot female characters are so easy to figure out.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 3:29 pm | #

That's another thing. I get annoyed when casting decided to make CTU staffed with only super hot people. There is a history of this of course (Nina Meyers and Tony Almeida season 1 anyone?) but they were usually balanced out by less attractive people like George Mason and Jamie to make it somewhat conceivable that one or two hot people could work in the same office.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:35 pm | #

I think that I enjoy the character of Chloe because she says precisely the kind of things I often wish I had the courage to say in the workplace. And let's face it, who hasn't had the desire to speak their mind like that..
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 3:35 pm | #

Derek, well that all depends on how and individual person defines "hot"... I certainly didn't feel Nina Myers had any hotness about her, but maybe that was just me. Is that any worse than shows that have nearly 100% of their cast as near super-models?
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 3:37 pm | #

Yeah, it just reminds me of what happened with Survivor. The first season was a mix of regular people thrown into an irregular situation. Then Season two had Elizabeth Hasselbeck and everyone talked about how hot she was so every season after that was just stocked with models who were supposed to be "real" people. I do like the fact that CTU has finally added an arabic speaking staffer to their office. Gee, only took them about 8 years to realize that might come in handy.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:40 pm | #

I don't think 24 will fall into that trap, I have more faith in the team behind it and hope that the appearance of the characters won't be as important as their ability to convey a compelling story. Just looking at the list of actors yet to be seen this season, I have a feeling my wish will come true.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 3:43 pm | #

Ok, here's the thing I don't get about 24. It's supposed to be 24 hours in a row, right? One hour on TV = one hour in Jack Bauer's life?

When does he sleep?
When does he eat?
When do we see the episode of him taking a dump for 20 minutes?
Duros62 | 01.17.07 - 3:53 pm | #

Actually I intentionally try not to look at that stuff. I don't want to know who or what will be on in the future until it happens. I even avoid seeing the "next week on 24" preview that happens after each episode because it gives away too much of the main plot. I'm going to watch it anyway, I don't need to be lured by next week's preview.

If you ask me they've already fallen into that trap (the ratio of hot people to non-hot people has been about 6 or 6.5-4) but it doesn't stop me from liking the show. I liked how Season One had Dennis Hopper as the main bad guy. In subsequent seasons I'm always like "THAT'S the man bad guy? He's so....unremarkable".

Of course it doesn't help that the show kills off the guy you think is the main bad guy every 3 episodes until you don't care anymore. That was my main problem with Bierko last season. So many "lead terrorists" kept dying that I kept expecting him to die every episode only to be replaced by an even more important terrorist.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:54 pm | #

Good point Derek, they just now added someone who speaks fluent arab. A good arguement for how 24 is not righty propaganda would be how "behind the curve" everyone at CTU is. Sure they're all computer geniuses, but they just don't seem to get how elaborate the bad guys' schemes are. And for once I'd like to see a situation where they just take Jack's word for any particular quandary. Seems like they spent at least 20 minutes kicking themselves for not beleiving him in the first place.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 3:54 pm | #

Duros-

There are 4 minute commercial breaks where we don't see what's going on during the show. Just tell yourself that that's when everyone starts ripping open nutri-grain bars and taking dumps in their trash-cans before they get back to work.

As for sleep, it's quite possible to stay up for 24 hours, especially when your adrenaline is rushing and you're trying to save the world from a nuclear explosion.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:56 pm | #

ALLOW FOR ME PLEASE to share with you a re-enactment of just one of My favorite funny opening scenes of 24....

Picture this:

•Keiferman has somehow taken back from bad guys a passenger plane flying over the desert.
•The POTUS and everyone else still believes the plane is under the control of the bad guys.
•The POTUS has to be talked into allowing an F16 to shoot down the plane with Keiferman aboard before it reaches the city--he finally relents and says, " Oh Alriiight! Shoot it Down!".
•The president doesn't seem to like Keiferman.
•The F16 gets in place following the passenger plane -- locked and loaded and ready to shoot its missiles.
•Tension is high.
•Keiferman gets a secret cellphone call from an admirer telling him he's got to land the plane or the POTUS will shoot it down.
•Keiferman holds a gun to the pilot's head and says "Land the plane on that stretch of highway or I'll plug ya!"
•The pilot says there's not enough room to land, there's an overpass!!
•Keiferman points gun at pilot's head and says "DO it!".
•Pilot complies, seemingly really scared of Keiferman.
•(Did I mention the tension is high?).
•F16 tells president it looks like the plane is trying to land.
•Other guy with President says "Keiferman must have control of the plane and now we don't have to shoot it down!"
•POTUS, in spite of originally having to be 'talked into' shooting the plane down, now seems 'steadfast' and 'hellbent' into shooting it down without hesitation, almost as though he had originally thought of it. "No!" he says, "We shoot it down!"
•The other guy pleads with the President to not shoot the plane down, "Pleeese, Mr. President, it's Keiferman we're talking about." (Forgetting that the President doesn't seem to like Keiferman).
•F16 pilot says "Last chance, I need to fire now! What do I do!?"
•Tension is high.
•Finally the President relents and says, "Alriiiight....Don't shoot it down."
•The F16 is diverted in the last second.
•Whew, slight release of tension. But it's not over yet!

•The airline pilot is trying to land the plane on a skinny stretch of highway coming up to an overpass.
•Tension is immediately High again.
•Keiferman looks so intently involved (close-up of sweaty brow, etc), and still holding his pistol almost grabs the wheel of the plane to land it himself, but instead seems to "will" it to make a safe landing as the pilot struggles with the controls.
•The plane careens and smokes its brakes, squeeling and screeching like Ann Coulter getting pounded on a bed of glass, and finally comes to a stop within a hundred feet (or maybe fifty feet, I don't know) of the overpass.
•Whew, tension is really relieved now.
•Shot of Keiferman's sweaty brow; quick shot of saved happy passengers, grinning; shot of POTUS not looking as happy as he should be, seems to not like Keiferman.
•Cheesy infomercial music gets louder--commercial break.

I think I depicted that scene with the same finesse in which it was originally written. Thank you.
stevie | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 3:57 pm | #

Derek | 01.17.07 - 3:56 pm | #

Also I read somewhere that they were going to have a bathroom scene this season. There should be a lot of winking throughout that.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 3:57 pm | #

I think the observation is confirmed.
mk ultramaroon | 01.17.07 - 3:58 pm | #

That, and my suspension of disbelief is low enough that I don't even bother asking those questions.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 3:58 pm | #

And sometimes a tv-show is just a tv- show.
I love it | 01.17.07 - 4:00 pm | #

My favorite funny thing? The magic man-purse that has everything Jack will ever need.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:06 pm | #

You guys should check out the new reality television series that’s premiering today…makes 24 look like kids stuff!
mk ultramaroon | 01.17.07 - 4:06 pm | #

Ah yes, the magic man-purse or the JackPack as I like to call it. I need me one of those...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:07 pm | #

I think by now it's a well-known fact of life on the show that those who don't listen to Jack Bauer end up paying for it. Consistently.
It's enough to make you think that every time someone questions Jack on the show he should just be like "Remember all those times I was right and everyone was wrong? How many times have I saved Los Angelos again? Oh that's right. Shut up."

Hilarious. And come to think of it, comparing this to some kind of "Neo-con wet dream" is pretty laughable considering that if something like the immediate danger seen on 24 were to happen for real, we'd be toast for all the incompetence we've seen so far in our real counter-terrorist and intelligence agencies.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:08 pm | #

And in that instance pstlwhip.. the character of Jack Bauer would be played by Jon Lovitz.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:09 pm | #

Hey guys what are you talking about? Remember, we're all secret GOP operatives posing as liberals in order to trick people about 24. Stop making fun of the President, you traitors!
Derek | 01.17.07 - 4:11 pm | #

What, you think Lovitz couldn't torture someone? Ever seen him tap dance?
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:11 pm | #

And in that instance pstlwhip.. the character of Jack Bauer would be played by Jon Lovitz.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:09 pm | #

And right before he shoots people he yells, "EAT FRESH!"
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:11 pm | #

I forgot my orders, damnit... I forgot to properly read my "How to Pose as a Liberal" guidebook.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:12 pm | #

Derek | 01.17.07 - 4:11 pm | #

Oh that that were true. Pretty sure I wouldn't be worried about money right now.
But I would have a soul made of herpes-infected manure, so there's that.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:13 pm | #

Yes, because as 24 tells us, there are always trolls where you thought you had friends. Why even the arab boy across the street could be a troll, waiting to unleash his deception on the populace.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:14 pm | #

And if only Phil Hartman were still alive we could cast him as the President... just think Lovitz runnign around as Bauer and Hartman behind the desk in the Oval Office... now that's my counter terrorist team.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:14 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:14 pm | #

Man, I still miss Hartman. I was in college, up all night, when that news broke at around 4:30 am. Really shattered me. He seemed like such a decent man.
Don't marry a struggling actress.
And NewsRadio holds up incredibly well.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:21 pm | #

KO:

Is Fox's "24" just conservative fear-porn?
http://alternet.org/blogs/video/46859/

Just Playin' | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 4:22 pm | #

Somehow I don't think I could watch Lovitz give one of Bauer's steely eyed "Trust me" lines without vomiting in laughter. Plus, my suspension of disbelief isn't that low.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:22 pm | #

right there with you badairguitar. pour one on the curb for my fallen honky homey.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:24 pm | #

When do we see the episode of him taking a dump for 20 minutes?
Duros62 | 01.17.07 - 3:53 pm |

So Bauer is dropping a duece for 20 minutes. While he is in the bathroom a terrorist charges into the building, opens the valve on a tank of explosive gas, and pulls out a box of matches.

Bauer, not knowing what exactly is going on, walks out of the bathroom with a Victoria's Secret catalog under his arm, sees the guy about to light a match, then says, "Probably a good idea."

The terrorist, puzzled by this comment, says, "Whaa", pauses and turns his head just long enough for one of the other guys in the room who does know what will happen if the match gets struck, to dive onto the terrorist and decapacitate him before the match is struck.

Then Bauer says, "No ... really. You're probably gonna wanna light a match." Then everyone rolls their eyes, laughs nervously, and we go to commercial ... for Glade.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:24 pm | #

badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:21 pm |

Indeed ... rest in peace, Troy McClure.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:25 pm | #

You know that whole comment of why don't we see an episode of Bauer taking a dump for 20 minutes makes me wonder.... If I knew that terrorists were in possession of a nuclear bomb and were to detonate it within the hour, would I take time of my busy schedule trying to prevent mayhem and destruction to engage in a little number 2 action? Or would I decide, "you know what.. I can hold it for a while longer"
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:26 pm | #

And if he doesn't eat throughout the 24 hours then he wouldn't need to take a dump would he?
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:29 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:26 pm |

You obviously take a little better care of yourself than me. Because holding it really isn't an option when you're daily diet consists of about 9 microwave burritos, and at least a 12 pack of Diet Dr Pepper.

But then I assume Bauer probably doesn't eat like me either. So your point may be valid.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:29 pm | #

badairguitar,
I just recently bought the first 4 seasons of Newsradio and introduced my wife to the show, who absolutely loves it now. Doesn't matter how many times she watched the show, she laughs just as hard each and everytime.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:24 pm | #
I have those too. My roommates and I watch them all the time. It's really one of the most underrated sitcoms ever. Perfectly cast.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:29 pm | #

Though that would be a rather sadly comic moment to find out the reason why the terrorists were able to successfully detonate said bomb is because Bauer just couldn't hold it one second longer...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:30 pm | #

Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:30 pm |

... and if you enjoy a good dump like me, it would be worth it.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:31 pm | #

Bauer screaming (in his characteristic way) at a disillusioned CTU agent, "I had to go!"
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:31 pm | #

Queue the music ... John Lennon ... "I just had to let it go ..."

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:32 pm | #

Hey, man, when you gotta go...

Purple Patriot, good stuff.
Duros62 | 01.17.07 - 4:32 pm | #

Dave Nelson: I think you're jumping to conclusions.
Bill McNeal: Dave, I stand still. The conclusions jump to me.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:33 pm | #

Dear Lord,

Thank you for the internet. Amen.

And by the way I echo the kudos for "NewsRadio". Great show.
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:33 pm | #

Ah, but the true magic would be Keifer's portayal of Jack Bauer's firm resolve to push that turd out no matter what the bureaucrats say.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:33 pm | #

That's what the terrorists should use next time on Jack Bauer... inject him full of Ex-Lax and then set about your plans of mayhem.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:34 pm | #

Each hour would be about how hard it is to find a public restroom in LA. Jack running from one coffee shop or gas station to another, and finally having the president authorize the purchase of some gum so he can be a "paying customer".
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 4:36 pm | #

Or Jack pulling a gun in the face of a lowly cashier and demanding, "Give me the keys to the restroom, I'm running out of time!"
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:38 pm | #

I'd have a problem if I was Bauer ... cuz I'm one of those guys who just can't dookie anywhere but home. Public restrooms are out of the question.

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:39 pm | #

And as for Newsradio, I think my wife's favorite episode is the one where Dave gives up coffee and Bill quits smoking. Seeing Bill lose his cool to Matthew is priceless...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:35 pm | #

The audio's here:

http://www.adequatulence.com/har...unds/ sounds.php

ahhh...
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:40 pm | #

"Who does #2 work for?!"

"That's it pal. You show that turd who's boss."

...
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:40 pm | #

Thank you badairguitar, that audio has just made this the very best day ever.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:42 pm | #

Today has reminded me how much I miss being 13 years old. sigh
Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:42 pm | #

Today has reminded me how I am still a goofy little child even though have to go around acting like an adult all day long.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:43 pm | #

If keep listening to these Newradio audio files I'm going to choke from laughter... and then I won't able to appear as if I'm actually working...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:47 pm | #

yeah. they're all blocked at my glorious heartless company. so i'm glad you're enjoying them.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:51 pm | #

Purple Patriot | 01.17.07 - 4:42 pm
and
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:43 pm |

See? that's the magic of 24. it's just so god-damned ridiculous, it's perfect.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 4:52 pm | #

"Fox News" has been on the screens of 24 for years now. It's a FOX TV program, of course they're going to advertise their own sister network.

And on the fear card, what, the previous 5 years didn't play on fear? I see what people (and Olbermann) are getting at, but this season is no different than all the previous ones so I'm not sure they hype is warranted.
Fred | 01.17.07 - 4:54 pm | #

Exactly, now all we need is that glorious moment when Jack is faced with the new state of the art toilet that flushes with a sensor.... in his dire frustration and confusion he dials his trusted friend Chloe, "Your gonna have to get me the schematics for this thing, I don't know how to operate it. Hurry Chloe, its getting higher!"
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 4:54 pm | #

I always find it weird to see people laugh at depictions of torture.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:02 pm | #

Dude, Seele, man... once again you prove that you don't listen. Who exactly was laughing at depictions of torture? Unless you count the image of Jack Bauer struggling through LA to find a bathroom an act of torture... then yes, I was laughing my ass off.
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 5:04 pm | #

dude, you are laughing at a show that glorifies torture!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:08 pm | #

Seele, if I want something doing (or in your case saying) the same thing over and over and over again in front of me I'll go home and watch my dog chase its tail. It was a lot of fun debating this silly little issue but alas, I must go. Enjoy everyone...
Christopher_S | 01.17.07 - 5:09 pm | #

dude, you are laughing at a show that glorifies torture!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:08 pm

jesus christ, man! do people pay you to leave parties?
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 5:10 pm | #

For a sociopath: torture, murder, and atomic attacks may appear to be a party. However, to the sane much like bush's policies this show must be condemned by all peace loving Americans.
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:14 pm | #

Seriously. Lighten up, Seele. Its no wonder we liberals get the Namby-Pamby rap. Remember that we are the side who actually understands humor and nuance.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:15 pm | #

I never thought I supported torture, but then Seele came along. He makes a good case for it.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 5:18 pm | #

Television is for idiots. Watch at your peril.
Pechorin | 01.17.07 - 5:20 pm | #

all this bs over a god damn tv show....
mudshark | 01.17.07 - 5:20 pm | #

Television is for idiots. Watch at your peril.
Pechorin | 01.17.07 - 5:20 pm | #

This past season of The Wire was a stronger work of American art than any film I saw or book I read this year.
Enjoy your self-satisfaction.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 5:22 pm | #

from wikipedia on torture and "24"

Stephen King, an avowed fan of the series, wrote "There's also a queasily gleeful subtext to 24 that suggests, 'If things are this bad, why, I guess we can torture anybody we want! In fact, we have an obligation to torture in order to protect the country! Hooray!' Yet Jack Bauer's face — increasingly lined, increasingly haggard — suggests that extreme measures eventually catch up with the human soul."
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:28 pm | #

Thank you pstlwhip, and for calls to torture me because i say the show sucks? what the hell is the matter with you?
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:32 pm | #

You have no sense of humor. That's what's the matter with everyone.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 5:33 pm | #

I think Seele is really Jason Patrick. Man, THE LOST BOYS was 10 years ago. Don't take it out on Kiefer. Your career can turn around.
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 5:39 pm | #

Ah, yes. I remember the days when I was in my 20's and hated television. Lived without one for a number of years, decried it's effects on the American populace. But then I stopped taking everything so literally.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:45 pm | #

And for everyone out there, whining about how bad television is, let me remind you: Drum Circles Are Not Entertaining! They're boring as hell, and there isn't enough shrooms in the entire Pacific Northwest to make them so.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:51 pm | #

Man I wish I didn't have a television. The lives of the people telling me not to watch it seem so enlightened and on a higher plane than mine. I bet the see in the fourth dimension.

Perhaps one day I'll be enlightened enough to not watch television, because it's mindless drek with no standards. I will, however, continue to use the internet, which of course holds itself to the highest standards. Most of my time on the internet, however, will be spent lecturing people about watching TV and trying to position myself as a higher being than them.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 5:51 pm | #

thats not a bad idea pstlwhip, if you didn't have a television you would miss all those times cheney came out and said the terrorists were gonna attack us, and all the times the bush administration said torture was necessary, and how there are armies of sleeper cells waiting to nuke our cities. too bad so many Americans took them literally!
Seele | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 5:51 pm | #

Seele, your outrage is misplaced here. I personally don't condone torture or any of america's policies. But I do like to be entertained. Does everything you entertain yourself with have such outrageously effete overtones?
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:57 pm | #

So televisions are bad because elected officials can appear on them?

I'm confused Seele. What do you want? They do radio addresses too. And disiminate information through newspapers. Or are you just an unfunny, contrarian ******. (Pre-edited by not-Siteowner.)
badairguitar | 01.17.07 - 5:58 pm | #

That's right. I said effete.
pstlwhip | 01.17.07 - 5:59 pm | #

www.whitehouse.gov

Oh no Seele! Cheney is now on the internet. Look out! You'd better rip out your internet connection lest you become a fanatical Bush-lover. This point is not up for debate at all. Rip it out or you support torture.
Derek | 01.17.07 - 6:06 pm | #

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Torture, it should be against the law because we want it to *really* be a thing of pure last resort.

If there really is a ticking bomb, then the president can pardon them. That's what it's for: Special situations. Otherwise, mitts off.
Terr | 01.17.07 - 6:27 pm | #

GOP '08 prez wannabe Duncan Hunter needs to be raked over the coals for supporting those two border patrol agents. But knowing the Dems they won't do anything because they are weak.
asdf | 01.17.07 - 6:41 pm | #

Season 1 had Dennis Hopper as the villian and it was an absolute riot.
TR | 01.17.07 - 7:10 pm | #

It would be nice if 24 dealt with crimes all of us can relate with: white collar corporate egoists who are tied closely with local and federal politicians. Oil company CEO's, lobbyists, and of course, Republicans hot on the tail of some hooker or page. But I guess it wouldn't be nice to the show's predominantly conservative audience to put such truth in their face, now would it?
Ginger Winchester | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:41 pm | #

I have never watched "24" and cannot comment on whether it engages in fear-mongering or propaganda. As for product placement, however, this is very common. For example, a number of Warner Brothers movies contain fake CNN newscasts (CNN and Warner Brothers are both owned by Time Warner). Product placement is about the least worst thing that Fox does.
media concepts | Homepage | 01.17.07 - 8:44 pm | #

Okay. I'd like to recant my posts on 24 not being Neo Nut plot to scare people. After the quote below by Bo Dietl on Cavuto's show today, its pretty obvious what the wingnuts are up to.

"The fact of the matter is, I mean, you don't watch '24?' On Fox TV? They're out there. They're out there. There are cells out there. We have to protect ourselves against them as Americans."
-Bo Dietl

I still love the show though and I think people with half a brain don't equate 24 with reality
Not Dick but Richard | 01.17.07 - 8:46 pm | #

I refuse to watch any shows featuring "terrorists" since 9/11, knowing they are, if not propaganda, at the very least perpetuating stereotypes. Same with stories about drug dealers and pandering to the drug war.

There are lots of other stories to be told, instead of following the same old adrenalin rush born of hatred and xenophobia.
somalark | 01.17.07 - 9:16 pm | #

You mean, really, you guys are just now beginning to suspect that 24 is a propaganda vehicle "playing up the fear mongering and inuring us to the government torturing"?

The show has been on since Nov.1 2001 (less than two months after September 11, 2001 and you are just now suspecting that its intent is to increase fear and "normalize" torture, rendition and all of the other violations of the basic civil rights which have been guaranteed Americans for over two hundred years. This show has been doing exactly that for more than five years now. From the very beginning.

The most amazing thing is that Fox ginned up this abomination in less than 2 months. A remarkable job of propaganda and mind control for less than 2 months lead time. USA! USA!

If you are just now realizing what has been going on with this show, you probably don't watch enough TV (in this case less than one full viewing should have alerted you to the paranoic, propagandistic and evil rationalizing nature of the show) and you should probably have individuals who keep an eye on the mainstream "bread and circus" for you to let you know what is being doled out to the vidiots.

In example: Go Saints!!
rss
R.Sam Smith | 01.17.07 - 9:50 pm | #

hey guess what? i'm watching the senate on c-span 2 right now live.
make them earn their pay democrats.
Jenny'O | 01.17.07 - 10:09 pm | #

I think Bush is an idiot, but I love 24. All of you who think this is propaganda really need to chill out. Also, the torture in the show is almost always the case of the "ticking timebomb" scenario, and when it's not, like when Jack wants to torture the son of the Sec. of Defense, there is a strong opposing viewpoint showing that it is wrong. God bless America, and Jack Bower.

(__)_)~~~~FaRt
Mike Goat | 01.18.07 - 6:37 am | #

And I'm just so sorry that I am not as astute, intelligent or observant as someone like R. Sam Smith thinks that I should be. But I spent the better part of yesterday explaining my position so I no longer see what more I can say...
Christopher_S | 01.18.07 - 9:17 am | #

The enemy is using 24 as a weapon against us!
Seele | Homepage | 01.18.07 - 9:24 am | #

The concept of this show is to keep people in a state of fear......you know the rest....BS
mudshark | 01.18.07 - 9:51 am | #

"and people call me paranoid"
Christopher_S | 01.18.07 - 12:18 pm | #

I can't beleive we're still even talking about this. As a person who works in the film/television production industry I know that it takes way longer than two months to shoot an entire series, have it edited and promoted, shown to test audiences, then sceduled for air. That's the whole reason they only show reruns during the summer. If we want to stop the perception that lefties are all conspiracy kooks, then we have to quit trying to brand every little piece of entertainment as neo-con propaganda, especially for those of you who haven't seen or refuse to watch the show. It makes you sound as half baked as the neo-cons do.
pstlwhip | 01.18.07 - 12:54 pm | #

Keifer Southerland for the new Capt. Kirk, and Keanu Reeves as the new Mr. Spock.

Maybe then Reeve's wooden acting could pass for thoughtfulness and logic.
ysbaddaden | 01.18.07 - 3:46 pm | #

"but AlterNet wonders if "24" isn't both playing up the fear mongering and inuring us to the government torturing."

Ya think?
Sagra | 01.18.07 - 5:50 pm | #

No one's reading this anymore, but I think this still merits comment. Kiefer Sutherland said it all:

"On the set Tuesday, star Kiefer Sutherland said he never anticipated controversy over the bomb in the season’s opening episodes “because I’ve got it completely in perspective that this is a television show.”

He also said that pundits and commentators who’ve said that America needs a few more Jack Bauers taking care of business are way off.

“When you start taking a fantastical world like this and trying to apply the logic of this show in the real world is absolutely ridiculous and insane,” said the soft-spoken actor, who had his ever-present Camel cigarettes tucked in his pocket.

“I very strongly disagree with the idea that we need Jack Bauers out there in the world doing that. This is a show and everything from the torture and so many things he does are a fantastic dramatic devices, to show you how important a situation is within the dramatic context of a TV show,” Sutherland said. “The idea that people think this is how we actually need to go out there and behave is, well, it’s backward thinking.”"
g-mama | 01.20.07 - 9:37 am | #

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