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A republican racist? get outta here!
murph | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 4:58 pm | #

He's going to start claiming he's the tar baby; he's sticky enough.
ysbaddaden | 05.16.06 - 4:59 pm | #

well he's off to a good start.

wow. just wow.
smokeyJoe | 05.16.06 - 5:00 pm | #

He also used the term "segregate" earlier in the conference. But to his credit, he managed to avoid using the term "niggardly".

"If I sit silently, I have sinned" - Mohammad Mossadegh
THE MOSSADEGH PROJECT

truth | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:01 pm | #

You're doing a heck of a job, Snowie!
Howard Dean | 05.16.06 - 5:02 pm | #

Remember racism doesn't exist to Tony. Here it is in his own words on video.

http://getintheirface.blogspot.c...git- midget.html

LOL. This guys' an Aryan... Even if he doesn't know it yet.
Nate | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:03 pm | #

*sigh*
Reason | 05.16.06 - 5:03 pm | #

What's next, Mr. Snow? Pickaninnies? Bucks? Mammies? Don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies?

I said this when he accepted the job. It will not be long before his history of making racist, or at least racially insensitive, remarks will eventually force him from this position.
Gregory | 05.16.06 - 5:04 pm | #

Criminy, what next?
citrus | 05.16.06 - 5:04 pm | #

Aloha, Nate.
Gregory | 05.16.06 - 5:04 pm | #

Tony has the hots for Condi.

Even their names rhyme.
ysbaddaden | 05.16.06 - 5:04 pm | #

In referring to a thorny question regarding President Bush's illegal NSA domestic spying programs as a "tar baby," Tony Snow is just the latest conservative to show why the Republican outreach effort to African-Americans seems doomed to fail. He joins a long list including Ken Mehlman, Senators George Allen, Trent Lott and Jim Demint, Governors Matt Blunt and Haley Barbour, Fox News' own John Gibson, and of course, President Bush.

For the details and recent history, see:
"Snow White."
AvengingAngel | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:06 pm | #

Ok I'm willing to give him a break. He didn't seem AT ALL to mean it as a racist put down. He just meant "intractable embrace" or something colloquially better-sounding than this (too pedantic).
Yes of course it is a racist insult and he should realize that this job isn't as forgiving a MUTHA as the luvin' TAR-BABY of FAUX news he enjoyed.

'nuff said the better
Willie Buck Merle | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:07 pm | #

Hi Gregory... How's things?
Nate | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:08 pm | #

any one wonder why GW's approval ratings among minorities are in the single digits???
freaktown | 05.16.06 - 5:08 pm | #

Willie... Watch link above where he talks about racism on camera.
Nate | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:09 pm | #

This is a common phrase from a Brer Rabbit story; I have never heard it used in any other context.
Jesse Holmes | 05.16.06 - 5:09 pm | #

We could be witnessing the shortest tenure as White House PressSec in the history of the office.
Nicho | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:09 pm | #

He needs to shut the fuck up.
Lori | 05.16.06 - 5:10 pm | #

Unintentionally offending people is hard work!

The Extremist Rantings Of A Mainstream Progressive
frizzle | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:12 pm | #

I love how at the end he uses a poll to support the 'data mining' and then proceeds to tell off another reporter for bringing up a more recent poll saying that national security can't be run on polling
Fylbert | 05.16.06 - 5:12 pm | #

Nice how in one "response", he managed to work in the following memes:

1. USA flash poll says people 65+% of Americans don't care about a program I cannot confirm exists
2. Cannot confirm or deny (and neither can the POTUS)
3. It's not my place to fill you in or clarify anything; I'm only the Press Secretary
4. "Again..." (as in "Let me return to previously-regurgitated talking points")
5. "If you go back and look..." (as in "The President's position has always been consistent. If you were properly educated on this topic, you wouldn't have even bothered to ask your stupid question. Oceania has *always* been at war with Eurasia.")

And let's not forget the "tar baby" remark. This guy is totally living up to the Bush standard. Heckuva job, Snowy!
John Clavis | 05.16.06 - 5:15 pm | #

I hates me my republicans, but I'm willing to give Snow the benefit of the doubt here... it's pretty obvious that he is referring to the great Uncle Remus story of Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby (see http://www.otmfan.com/html/brertar.htm). It's a great story, and one I like to refer to in my conversations when I can. Heck, even PZ Meyers of Pharyngula has a recent post in which he refers to the same story: "which reeks of pleas not to be thrown in that there briar patch, Br'er Fox" (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/03/ the_dawkinsdennett_boogeyman.php). I don't see anything racist in his blog.

The point is this -- stay focused, and be shrill about the things that count. My judgement is that this doesn't count for much, and I doubt that Snow's even of the upbringing where that would be a potential slip of the tongue he has to monitor in polite company.

Snow has, and will have, much more to answer for... pounce on that.
gordonsowner | 05.16.06 - 5:17 pm | #

The same obfuscation, the same lies, the same spin just another media clown representing the whitehouse.
Fred | 05.16.06 - 5:17 pm | #

Nicho | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:09 pm

LOL. He is up against tough competition as well.
citrus | 05.16.06 - 5:18 pm | #

Wow. That effort was terrible. He came in below my already low expectations.
m | 05.16.06 - 5:18 pm | #

i think snow is going to be a ticking time bomb for this administration if this outburst is standard procedure. onething about scottie was that he just kept saying the same damn thing again and again, and only rarely did he loose his composure. the clips we see hear on crooks and liars are his major meltdowns, and even then he's still pretty together. scottie was a slippery snake, but this radio wackjob is going to blow it. i can just see it now. am i crazy or is this ridiculous era finally coming to an end. when can i start to believe my eyes and celebrate?

PS: i was recently trying to find out a little about mr. amato, but he doesn't have a wiki. can you believe that? i mean, he played with ringo, someone make him a wiki!
actual | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:18 pm | #

Save the outrage for something a little more serious than this. His use, while weird, was not offensive in context. Citing a Random House web page is hardly authoritative. You can find plenty of other legitimate references (e.g., http://www.bartleby.com/61/63/T0.../T0046300.html) which do not ascribe this meaning.
ddp | 05.16.06 - 5:19 pm | #

Why does Tony Snow not want to hug black people and why does he hate America? That is a well know racial slur.
uppity kitty | 05.16.06 - 5:19 pm | #

this has got to be a distraction strategy. "Hey look at me over here, I'm saying tar baby".
Freedom From | 05.16.06 - 5:19 pm | #

Maybe it is a reference to the B'rer Rabbit story, but isn't that reference alone rascist since the story mimics the vocal patterns of slaves?

Why hasn't Uncle Tom sued Uncle Remus who could've sued Bugs Bunny yet?
ysbaddaden | 05.16.06 - 5:19 pm | #

OH COME ON LETS BE SERIOUS

A "tar baby" is something that sticks to you like tar, needs your complete attention and grows and grows no matter what you do!!

THE FACT THAT SOME ASSHOLE USED IT AS AN INSULT YEARS AGO DOESNT MEAN THAT IT SHOULD NOW BE REMOVED FROM USE!! GET OVER IT AND STOP LOOKING FOR RACIAL INSULTS IN WHATEVER U SEE AND HEAR. YOUR MAKING YOUR SELF LOOK LIKE DERSHUWITLESS DURING THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL!!
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:20 pm | #

Maybe it was purposeful. To feed the culture warriors on the Right. Since they can't handle real news, right-wing talk show can now spend tomorrow spewing venom about "the oppressive word-police of the politically correct Left." And ignoring the real issues. Maybe Snow will drop nuggets like these every time to feed that Fox-feed strawman culture war.
House of Bush, House of Saud | 05.16.06 - 5:21 pm | #

UU. was right, he is a uniter

unite the country into fucking hating this fucking administration and the bought and sold (or pressured at best) complicit rubberstampers in congress
tofubo | 05.16.06 - 5:21 pm | #

If people react to this strongly, and they have reason to, the right will start harping about being PC and being taken out of context.
krotop | 05.16.06 - 5:23 pm | #

This was deliberate usage.
This administration is using everything they have to try to appease the moronic majority that the "whites" need to reclaim America.
Make no mistake, this was done on purpose. Bush is smirking right now. RIGHT F'ING NOW!
Targa | 05.16.06 - 5:24 pm | #

Ya all doan git it does ya? Mr. Snow is 'evergisin' da base'. Wake up and smell the lynchin' homer.

This is what American is: Racist to the bone.

Did the presser git on him...nah, dey all racist fucks too.
.
A. Citizen | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:25 pm | #

"hug the tar baby"... HOLY FUCK!

from now on, I'm going to use the term "wax the cracker".

Good is bad. Bad is good.
Why does George W. Bush and his minions hate America?
Targa | 05.16.06 - 5:25 pm | #

I think the problem is that Snow is supposed to be a professional speaker, otherwise why would he have been given such an important public relations post? Realistically, we all know why he was assigned to the job, but let's play devil's advocate for a minute. To be press secretary, you have to have charisma, and the ability to think on your feet. Using statements such as "tar baby" is just asking for trouble. I know the origin of the term, but in 2006 if you say that term to the average person on the street, what do you think they are going to think it refers to? Snow should try to be as innocuous as possible, especially early on. I mean, that is common sense. Does the Bush administration really want added stress right now? Sheesh. Unless, like another poster above said, it is distraction, which would make sense in a warped, BushCo sort of way.
citrus | 05.16.06 - 5:27 pm | #

Negro, Please.
Cato the Yankee | 05.16.06 - 5:28 pm | #

It's so hard to find good help these days.
Captain Kangaroo | 05.16.06 - 5:29 pm | #

"tar baby" as I know it comes from Joel Chandler Harris' tales of Uncle Remus. The tar baby is a baby made of tar and each time you hit it you get stuck. Ultimatly you cannot get loose. Iraq is a "tar baby". I have never thought of the term as racist.

I don't like Snow but I don't think his use of the term was recist.
Henry | 05.16.06 - 5:30 pm | #

Nate, ok I watched it. He is just #45845985948 of the racists I've learned to tolerate so far in my life (heh). If he is a stand up guy he will address all of his ludicrous comments by tomorrow's meeting. Also as an aside, I wonder if he would have used the term if answering a question from a non-white (Susan Malveaux, a TOTAL FOX BTW).

I'm guessing probably not... even 'the decider' isn't that THICKHEADED.

05/16/2006
SUSAN MALVEAUX: What is the president's response to your use of the phrase "Tar baby"?
TONY SNOW: Well Sugah, he like me believes that racism is just a bunch of hooey from all those New Yawk Joos. Say child, why don't you come up to the house tonite for some good ol' GOP fried chicken and peas?

sorry :P
Willie Buck Merle | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:30 pm | #

Yep, the C&L chorus that posts here are getting a wee bit blood thirsty having a throw-down on ANY and ALL reports thrown on this blog, regardless of their severity.

By seeing this idiot use a phrase, which in his context was harmless, you, the hatemonger C&L reader just has to freak out and cry your liberal version of "henny penny!" but in reality, you need to CTFD (calm the fuck down) because it was dumb. If anything, the attention should be placed on...whatever the topic was he was talking about..not taht I cared!
ironchef | 05.16.06 - 5:30 pm | #

I don't have an OED in front of me, but I'm guessing the origination of Tar Baby is from the Uncle Remus stories, which, in 2006, could be interpreted as derrogatory and racist. Whether or not Tony Snow meant it as anything racist, which I can't believe he would, it is still horrific that he would use this word.
Lean more about the stories of Uncle Remus here: http://www.uncleremus.com/
kathotdog | 05.16.06 - 5:30 pm | #

I guess Kiss a Lepper might be better..Colbert would have been a better choice W !!
jack meoffer | 05.16.06 - 5:32 pm | #

it is still horrific that he would use this word. - kathotdog

Horrific? Uh, why? Wouldn't something like "..no WMD's here!...none under here!" be horrific? please...
ironchef | 05.16.06 - 5:33 pm | #

Hey Jesse, never seen the classic Richard Pryor Chevy Chase SNL clip, when Pryor was interviewing for a job. One of the racial slurs Chevy used was "Tar Baby".

Part of it went like this...

Pryor: Honkey

Chase: Nigger

Pryor: Dead Honkey

Chase: You got the job.
Greg | 05.16.06 - 5:33 pm | #

Get over it.

You're just as stupid as the people who were pissed at the guy who said "niggardly."

God, this is stupid. Harping on this makes you look and sound stupid.
Blomi | 05.16.06 - 5:34 pm | #

im less concerned with what words he is using and more concerned why we even have a press conference to answer questions when all that is asked gets dodged and dismissed.

what's the point?
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:35 pm | #

He also used the term "segregate" earlier in the conference. But to his credit, he managed to avoid using the term "niggardly".

even though niggardly is a perfectly acceptable term that means miserly

hopefully you were being sarcastic
Blomi | 05.16.06 - 5:35 pm | #

Hug the Tar Baby...oh shit.LOL
byrdchest | 05.16.06 - 5:35 pm | #

My 2 cents: No big deal. He might be even purposely baiting people that want to jump on him for something. He knows it wouldn't hurt GW for the press secretary to take a little heat.

By the way, that poll is a crock of shit and if our liberal media weren't so damn busy spending their war-profiteering dollars, maybe they'd conduct a legitimate one.

Why the bullshit, "I can't confirm the existence of the program crap?" Does anyone believe for a second that this information (collection of millions of Verizon et al. phone records)would be useful in catching terrorists?
Original Bill | 05.16.06 - 5:36 pm | #

Ahem...testing.

From now on...

He's Tony Slur.

Ferris out.
Ferris | 05.16.06 - 5:36 pm | #

I second the motion, Ferris.
Targa | 05.16.06 - 5:37 pm | #

Using that descriptive phrase wouldn't get him fired by bush. He could stand up there fire off a round of shotgun shells at an old man and still keep his job.
Marge | 05.16.06 - 5:37 pm | #

When you don't have a producer bailing your ass out............seems like it awfully hard not to get sandbagged by the truth.

Snow is a dolt just like the rest of them
Chris | 05.16.06 - 5:38 pm | #

OPP, how can I explain it
I'll take you frame by frame it
To have y'all jumpin' shall we singin' it
O is for Other, P is for People scratchin' temple
The last P...well...that's not that simple
It's sorta like another way to call a cat a kitten
It's five little letters that are missin' here
You get on occassion at the other party
As a game 'n it seems I gotta start to explainin'
Bust it
You ever had a girl and met her on a nice hello
You get her name and number and then you feelin' real mellow
You get home, wait a day, she's what you wanna know about
Then you call up and it's her girlfriend or her cousin's house
It's not a front, F to the R to the O to the N to the T
It's just her boyfriend's at her house (Boy, that's what is scary)
It's OPP, time other people's what you get it
There's no room for relationship there's just room to hit it
How many brothers out there know just what I'm gettin' at
Who thinks it's wrong 'cos I'm splittin' and co-hittin' at
Well if you do, that's OPP and you're not down with it
But if you don't, here's your membership

Chorus:
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (Every last homie)
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (All the homies)

As for the ladies, OPP means something gifted
The first two letters are the same but the last is something
different
It's the longest, loveliest, lean-- I call it the leanest
It's another five letter word rhymin' with cleanest and meanest
I won't get into that, I'll do it...ah...sorta properly
I say the last P...hmmm...stands for property
Now lady here comes a kiss, blow a kiss back to me, now tell me
exactly
Have you ever known a brother who have another like ah girl or wife
And you just had to stop and just 'cos he look just as nice
You looked at him, he looked at you and you knew right away
That he had someone but he was gonna be yours anyway
You couldn't be seen with him and honestly you didn't care
'Cos in a room behind a door no one but y'all are there
When y'all are finish, y'all can leave and only y'all would know
And then y'all could throw the skeleton bones right in the closet do'
Now don't be shocked 'cos if you're down I want your hands up high
Say OPP (OPP) I like to say with pride
Now when you do it, do it well and make sure that it counts
You're now down with a discount

Chorus:
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (Every last lady)
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (All the ladies)

This girl ah tried to OPP me
I had a girl and she knew that matter-of-fact my girl was partner's
that
Had a fall out, disagreement, yeah an argument
She tried to do me so we did it in my apartment, bust it
That wasn't the thing it must have been the way she hit the ceiling
'Cos after that she kept on coming back and catchin' feelings
I said, "Let's go my girl is coming so you gotta leave"
She said, "Oh no, I love you Treach" I said, "Now child please"
You gots to leave, come grab your coat, right now you gotta go
I said now look you to the stairs and to the stairwindow
This was a thing, a little thing, you shouldn't have put your heart
'Cos you know I was OPP, hell from the very start
Come on, come on, now let me tell you what it's all about
When you get down, you can't go 'round runnin' off at the mouth
That's rule number one in this OPP establishment
You keep your mouth shut and it won't get back to her or him
Exciting isn't it, a special kinda business
Many of you will catch the same sorta OPP is you with
Him or her for sure is going to admit it
When OPP comes, damn-- skippy I'm with it

Chorus:
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (This whole party)
You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
Who's down with OPP (This whole party)

Break it down!
Cato the Yankee | 05.16.06 - 5:38 pm | #

The Slurmiester
jack meoffer | 05.16.06 - 5:38 pm | #

--Using that descriptive phrase wouldn't get him fired by bush. He could stand up there fire off a round of shotgun shells at an old man and still keep his job.
Marge | 05.16.06 - 5:37 pm | #

LMAO!!

sadly, you're prolly right.
byrdchest | 05.16.06 - 5:40 pm | #

Oh, I can't wait until the nitwit points to a reporter and says, "You, the black one," or "You, oriental lady."
valerief | 05.16.06 - 5:41 pm | #

Oh, I can't wait until the nitwit points to a reporter and says, "You, the black one," or "You, oriental lady."
valerief | 05.16.06 - 5:41 pm

Well, they MIGHT could be at the back of the press room... or in another room altogether... probably.
Targa | 05.16.06 - 5:42 pm | #

maybe he is a gay racist xenophobic klansman?

sounds right for one of the decider's choices. when he wants to tell the blacks what he thinks, he appoints yet another person to insure that they will be denegrated.

smart move for bush. what is next, back to africa again? maybe mexico?

amazing
oldtree | 05.16.06 - 5:42 pm | #

"You, morons."

This means YOU.
Blomi | 05.16.06 - 5:42 pm | #

I also only heard tar baby used in the context of the Brear Rabbit.

I just took it to mean that he doesn't want to get himself in a situation he can't extricate himself from.

You can blame the man for a lot of things, but in this case, racism is pushing it.

So "tar baby" is really a racially loaded term? Boy is my face red. Funny story, actually...

Not to long ago I ended a response on a discussion board with with the comment "I'm done kicking the tar baby now."

I seriously had no clue that it could be interpreted as a racial slur.
Oops! You'd think someone would have said something.

Anyway, the pot (being me) will refrain from comment... especially on judgements of color. (The pun was there. I had to take it.)
Mostly Harmless | 05.16.06 - 5:42 pm | #

Cato the Yankee | 05.16.06 - 5:38 pm

I had no idea you penned that tune.
I doubt many folks who visit this site did, either.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:43 pm | #

To be press secretary, you have to have charisma, and the ability to think on your feet.

Did you not pay attention through the whole Scott McClellan tenure?
RR | 05.16.06 - 5:43 pm | #

Mostly Harmless | 05.16.06 - 5:42 pm

Ok, so it that an admission that perhaps you aren't the most viable candidate for Presidential Press Secretary?
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:44 pm | #

hey ironchef how about not worrying about what we write or think....i'm sick to death of puke repugs telling this public how to think so shove it ...moron
rb,bushisaliar | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:45 pm | #

He's much smoother than Mclellan but gets rattled if questioned repeatedly. Love that part where he uses a poll and says security shouldn't be decided upon by polls.

Is there a special place in hell where they grow people like Mclellan, Snow, publicists, and movie producers?
srgtick | 05.16.06 - 5:46 pm | #

seems these are the times where being racist is becoming socially acceptable and people will not only condone it but defend it as well. just look at many of the comments on this board.
john x | 05.16.06 - 5:46 pm | #

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tar+baby

Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

"something from which it is nearly impossible to extricate oneself "

though slang (below) seems to give it more definitions, i always knew it to mean the same thing tony snow does,, a sticky situation that just gets worse when u try to fix it..

Just who is it that decided they can change the use of our English language and its definitions? same with the word "gay" which has always meant, "happy" ..and nothing more!!!

*****************************
Tar Baby

the doll smeared with tar, set to catch Brer Rabbit (1881); hence transf., spec. an object of censure; a sticky problem, or one which is only aggravated by attempts to solve it(colloq.);
a derog. term for a Black (U.S.) or a Maori (N.Z.).
something from which it is nearly impossible to extricate oneself.
n. a "sticky problem" (20th century use).
A Black person (used in the U.S., 1940s).
A derogatory term for a Maori (used in N.Z., 1950s).
A Negro baby. Cf. Tar pot (sense 1) (U.S. colloquial, mid 1800s-present).

**************************

Even gay has changed over and over. It started out as "happy" , then it meant "homosexual" as a slur.. now kids today use "gay" in almost every sentence that comes out of their mouths.. to mean "stupid" or "ridiculous" or "lame"...

While we are asking for our country back, could I also inject we ask for our language back too?

P.S. "anyways" is NOT plural
BJ | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:48 pm | #

"Oopsie! Thought I was still on Fox ." Isn't Tony Snow the guy that said "racism doesn't exist anymore???
brian | 05.16.06 - 5:49 pm | #

Of course he does.

It's part of the whole "code" thing of republicans, which even white democrats are happy to further: surround an insult with "plausible deniability", and it's all good.

Just standard white folks for you.
cdj | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:50 pm | #

Blomi, congratulations, I think you've figured out sarcasm. Don't feel too embarrassed, truth frequently makes posts that require brain activity for understanding.

Unscientifically, although it looks like several of the posters here would not have used the term "tar baby" themselves, the majority of folks here figure there are bigger fish to fry. So, claims of shrill left-wing chat rooms (certain to be forthcoming from trolls) are hyperbole.

I am finding the "intentional use" argument very compelling, myself. Kind of reminds me of Rush Limbaugh on Monday Night Football. He was trying to make himself the story.
Original Bill | 05.16.06 - 5:50 pm | #

must say that while it's same spin as usual, i find snow much less odious a character than scotty...
james madison | 05.16.06 - 5:53 pm | #

kathotdog | 05.16.06 - 5:30 pm | #

By the way, your assessment is totally off the mark and it is not horrific he used the term.. it is more like he's educated and well read then the general uneducated public whom are not.

Younger generation needs to learn to pick up a book, or two..or three..
BJ | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:53 pm | #

Come on now...he clearly meant it in the terms of "a sticky situation". Let's just calm down. You guys need to quit taking things so damn seriously. Most people have better things to do with their time...in fact, I need to go nigger rig my car right now.
The Decider | 05.16.06 - 5:54 pm | #

He slipped up. Sorry, but if we start going crazy over that now then we're gonna have very little credibility when he actually does start getting retarded.
Zach | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:54 pm | #

The groups, in order of power, who refer to CNN CBS and ABC as the "Liberal Media"

KKK
Neo-Nazis
Fox News
Bush Administration

Good company to be in Tony Snow, movin on to be the official Press Secretary is a hell of a step up. I look forward to your letter of resignation
50 Blue States | 05.16.06 - 5:54 pm | #

The only racism I've seen lately is on so-called liberal blogs like this one.
dee ray | 05.16.06 - 5:55 pm | #

"seems these are the times where being racist is becoming socially acceptable and people will not only condone it but defend it as well. just look at many of the comments on this board."

Total crock of shit. No one here is defending racism. They're claiming what he said wasn't racist.

Huge. Gigantic difference.
Derek | 05.16.06 - 5:55 pm | #

I'm perfectly willing to let Tony Snow publicly demonstrate his knowledge of figures of speech. Yes, it could be considered racially offensive, but clearly that is not the manner in which it was intended. I agree, lighten up. Tony Snow is going to give us MUCH more than this in months to come.
Dennis | 05.16.06 - 5:56 pm | #

When Helen Thomas asked a question, Tony Snow said:

"Let's try to segregate the story here..."

So, he also (albeit subliminally) mentions segregation during his press conference.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:56 pm | #

BJ, could you blow chimpy so that we can impeach him already?

And since when are books that are full of racist stereotypes an important part of being "literate" or getting a good education?

You are an uneducated fool to think that we should all read that crap that demeans and insults large groups of Americans.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:57 pm | #

must say that while it's same spin as usual, i find snow much less odious a character than scotty...
james madison | 05.16.06 - 5:53 pm | #

Maybe its because Tony isn't as fat and sweaty?

By the way, the test of the "intentional use" theory is if the "liberal media" picks this up and starts talking about how offensive this was.
Original Bill | 05.16.06 - 5:58 pm | #

I think we shouldn't be so wrapped up in the potential "racism" of the term since we all know the proper context.
What we SHOULD be focusing on is that in his very first press conference, Snow admitted he can't tell the truth because it'll get him into trouble.
------------------------------------------------
But clearly it's much more fun for folks to clutch their pearls indignantly over Snow's phraseology.
wtf | 05.16.06 - 5:58 pm | #

He should be fired.

The Racial Slur Database:
Tar Baby Represents: Blacks Reasons/Origins: Skin color. From the "Uncle Remus" (Br'er Rabbit) story.
http://www.rsdb.org /

List of Ethnic Slurs
Tar baby (U.K.; U.S.; and N.Z.) a black child.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Lis...of_ethnic_slurs

Go into a meeting and throw around the term "tar baby".

Assuming you have meetings and there are African Americans or someone from HR attending.

Kiss your job goodbye.

This isn't some blogger or a network hairdo. This is the Press Secretary of the White House.
onehandle | 05.16.06 - 5:58 pm | #

Dee ray, don't get out much?
Original Bill | 05.16.06 - 5:59 pm | #

How about we just proclaim everyone an asshate and just get along...
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:59 pm | #

WHAT HE SAID TAR BABY?

THAT MOTHER FOCKER CRACKER! Are we back to 1950's again? Are we back to being a nation of white crackers? I say nay, I say lets stop them now before they get the white robes out followed with burning crosses.

My guess they have their robes and crosses ready,...FOCKERS
IN THE COLD | 05.16.06 - 6:01 pm | #

Let me preface this by saying that I abhor the Bush Regime.

I also do not think that some should be vilified for using an expression in a way that was clearly not meant to be derogatory.

If I had more time I would find a way to include 'niggardly' in my comments in a way that was nuanced and witty.

Beware the language police.

Let me bookend this by saying again... I abhor the Bush Regime and all it represents.

Best to you all.
Thomas | 05.16.06 - 6:01 pm | #

It's Tony's sticky situation. much ado
apeman | 05.16.06 - 6:01 pm | #

But clearly it's much more fun for folks to clutch their pearls indignantly over Snow's phraseology.
wtf | 05.16.06 - 5:58 pm | #

And, when you say "clutch their pearls", what does that imply?
Original Bill | 05.16.06 - 6:01 pm | #

I don't feel comfortable in this "gotcha" type of assault. I'd rather you look at the substance of what he was trying to say and pick apart the falsehoods or discrepancies thereof. This post just weakens the foundation of ligitimate criticisms by going off in this silly tangent, IMHO.
cetylovx | 05.16.06 - 6:03 pm | #

Aw com'on. The tar baby in the Uncle Remus story was a clever strategem, not a racial slur. I applaud the tar baby, as I do Little Black Sambo, the clever South Indian who outwitted the tiger out to eat him. These are both exemplary examples of high intelligence and should not be construed by anybody as derogatory. I remember a couple of years back that somebody nearly got fired over the use of the word 'niggardly', a word meaning 'stingey' from a Norse root that has no connection to the root 'niger', Latin for 'black'. Perhaps I should object to Lemon Pledge, as I am half Polish, or to any italic typefaces since I am half Italian. Oy, the ignorance!
VJB | 05.16.06 - 6:03 pm | #

He can't possibly be ignorant of the derogatory nature of that term. Sounds like a ploy to get Tony on the front page to distract from other Bush failures.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:03 pm | #

Bush should have his own TV Show

"Fall Guy"
USSA | 05.16.06 - 6:03 pm | #

very OT. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but anyone check out the video sequence on MSNBC of the "airplane" hitting the Pentagon? Watch it a few times. Ecspecialy the first part. I don't see a plane. It looks more like the trail from a missle. Like I said, I'm not big on all the Charlie Sheen 911 conspiracy crap, but this is to wierd.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12818225/
Greg | 05.16.06 - 6:05 pm | #

Happy Snow Day, ya tar baby ya!
bibimimi~☆ | 05.16.06 - 6:06 pm | #

truth 05.16.06 - 5:01 pm |

I picked up on that "segregate" thing too! Where is the mind of Tony "racism no longer exists" Snow at...

Of course Tony Snow was not trying to be offensive, and I'm actually somewhat heartened that a member of the Bush administration can use a metaphor - and not a sports metaphor, either! That being said, the term "tar baby" is unfortunately pretty loaded. While I'm sure someone has cued in Snow by now about his choice of words, context is everything and I don't see how anyone could think he's using the term as a racial slur.
Batocchio | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:06 pm | #

Ok, so it that an admission that perhaps you aren't the most viable candidate for Presidential Press Secretary?

Well, I don't think I could lie through my teeth for a living anyway. Bad for the Karma.

My self deprecating comment was meant to point out that people were blowing this whole thing out of proportion.

You gotta pick your battles.

We have enough actual problems to be outraged about like... ohh... I dunno... The breach of privacy Snow's trying to cover for.
Mostly Harmless | 05.16.06 - 6:06 pm | #

Are we really going to abrogate a perfectly good expression, and a fine specimine of cultural heritage, just because a bunch of racist knuckleheads have hijacked a word? Puh-leeze, I mean, anyone for Freedom Fries?
Geoff | 05.16.06 - 6:09 pm | #

Oh my god, what a fricking racist moron. The guy cant finish a complete thought. Maybe it's all the hate that keeps boiling up in his head from his black heart. Segregation AND TarBaby in the same press conference. That has to be some kind of record. Half of what comes out of his mouth is nonsense - literally, it's half a sentence, then change topic, then call on the next reporter. Could he be any more useless?
Geoff | 05.16.06 - 6:11 pm | #

I understand those who refernce the Uncle Remus stories for the context of the term "tar baby". My grandmother would read me these stories when I was too young to read.

Mostly, I heard the term in the mid to late 60's in the American South, directed at blacks as a slur. Recently I have heard the term used as a slur against Arabs. I would think that Mr. Snow, fine Southern gentleman or not, would understand that the derogatory usage makes this analogy a poor choice.

Was this usage intentional? I have no idea but I do think that Snow is a second rate hack, which makes him over qualified to serve in the buschco White House.

Having been called a "paddy" in England, I understand how certain "harmless" are anything but.
Gregory | 05.16.06 - 6:11 pm | #

I don't think any serious case can be made that Snow is a racist because he used the term "tar baby." As others have already pointed out, it was simply a reference to Uncle Remus/Bre'er Rabbit. Making a fuss about dubious examples of latent racism only distracts attention from the many overt examples of real racism embraced by this administration.

Although it doesn't establish him as a racist, his use of the term "tar baby" most emphatically does establish him as a moron and a lousy press secretary! There is no escuse for the White House Press Secretary not anticipating a firestorm of criticism for using such and incredibly loaded term.

What a dolt!
Chesire11 | 05.16.06 - 6:13 pm | #

no personal attacks

Edited By Siteowner
Geoff | 05.16.06 - 6:14 pm | #

The media is gonna focus on his weepy "momemnt", not the fact he got off on the wrong foot saying something stupid.

I feel bad he had to go through what he did but I know a couple cancer survivors that don't advertise they beat their disease. They don;t wear wristbands. They donate money to foundations and attend functions.

This may sound crass but the yellow wrist band sticking out was his life jacket today and he used it.No one will remember anything else he said today because he cried and looked human for a couple of minutes.

Lastly, I saw Susan Mal comment on how refreshing it was he said "I don't know about any of that" when asked a question. She also said other reporters cried with him joining in the moment and loved him.

The Tar baby thing will drift away....
Andy | 05.16.06 - 6:15 pm | #

Say what you will, had Bush hired him, Colbert wouldn't have said "tar baby!"
Chesire11 | 05.16.06 - 6:15 pm | #

I am sorry to speak this way: but is he out of his fucking mind?

R2K
Alex | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:15 pm | #

"very OT. I'm not a conspiracy guy, but anyone check out the video sequence on MSNBC of the "airplane" hitting the Pentagon? Watch it a few times. Ecspecialy the first part. I don't see a plane. It looks more like the trail from a missle. Like I said, I'm not big on all the Charlie Sheen 911 conspiracy crap, but this is to wierd."

If their is one law that needs passed now it is that all surveillance cameras be hires. These grainy videos are so 1980s. Doesn't matter if it is a footage of plane, a missile, or a some guy holding up a video store, get some good video. Also in the same law no more streaming video that makes it difficult to review and scrub.

That being said, I am still not convinced. How big was this airplane? From what I understand the Pentagon is 3 or 4 stories, I would think that the airplane/missile in the video would be taller. Now it could be gouging the ground in which case it would be lower, but that is either a small airliner or it is a missile.

On topic. I am not ready to label Tony Snow a racist. Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, he should of said I am not ready to embrace that sticky mess.
Gil Grissom | 05.16.06 - 6:16 pm | #

oh come on - this is "news"??

Not a peep about Klever Karl being indicted on Saturday (http://informationclearinghouse.info/ article13038.htm) and we have our knickers in a knot over a nearly forgotten tale of BrierRabbit?!?!?
biff | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:17 pm | #

There's a few antisemites here. Of course they're too pussy to admit it.
Cato the Yankee | 05.16.06 - 6:18 pm | #

biff,
The second that Rove is actually indicted then we will be talking about nothing else.

Just killing time, waiting for the main event to start.
Gregory | 05.16.06 - 6:19 pm | #

I'm beginning to wonder if this tar baby wasn't really a red herring.
Robuzo | 05.16.06 - 6:20 pm | #

I say we run him outa town on a rail.
Canuck Stuck in Muck | 05.16.06 - 6:20 pm | #

lets call him snow baby
actual | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:25 pm | #

Come on, it's clear from the context that he's not using the phrase with any racist connotations.

Like someone earlier in the comments said, pick your battles. This ain't one of 'em.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:25 pm | #

He slipped up. Sorry, but if we start going crazy over that now then we're gonna have very little credibility when he actually does start getting retarded.
Zach | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 5:54 pm | #

Zach, people,. who the fuck old are you anyway?

He did NOT slip up! it is a common enough term to many adults. geeze!!!

*******************************
The only racism I've seen lately is on so-called liberal blogs like this one.
dee ray | 05.16.06 - 5:55 pm | #

ahhhh wrong again.. there is no racism if only some ignorance.. which we see plenty of on the right..

**********************

Huge. Gigantic difference.
Derek | 05.16.06 - 5:55 pm | #

couldn't agree more.. I'm flabbergasted at the ignorance

*******************************

When Helen Thomas asked a question, Tony Snow said:

"Let's try to segregate the story here..."

So, he also (albeit subliminally) mentions segregation during his press conference.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 5:56 pm | #

give me a fucking break.. this is why so many people laugh at liberals, you make jack asses out of yourselves fueling ridiculous accusations like this.. prove he said segregation instead of separation..

if it was meant as sarcasm..it's a little hard to tell when u post as "anonymous" and there are so many ridiculous serious comments like it here..

**********************************
onehandle | 05.16.06 - 5:58 pm | #

you are wrong, he shouldn't be fired, maybe you should grow up, get the fuck off the blogs and pick up a damn book and get an education in the English language..
************************************

Dumbshits it was not said or meant in a racially provoked manner. If you think it was, then you are very young, or very stupid, or both.

If you are a sincere liberal, don't ya think maybe you should use some common sense and really fight about the important things? Get all fired up about the environment? The ploys they are using already towards the November election? 2008?

If you come off sounding fucking stupid like you are in this thread, some of you, then who is going to pay attention to you when it's a really serious situation? a realistic situation?
BJ | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:26 pm | #

At which point in the video does the record-getting-bumped scratch noise happen?
Captain Awesome | 05.16.06 - 6:26 pm | #

Good grief, despite being with Fox News, Snow always seemed to be at least an intelligent, articulate guy. Now that he's working for Bushitler, he's already turning into a moronic, drooling toady!
Darth_Cheney | 05.16.06 - 6:27 pm | #

Does it bother anyone at all that he and others are now using the "I can neither confirm nor deny" talking-point?

That's spook lingo. He's a PR guy. Or is he?

In other words the administration--potentially anyone in it--feels that national secrets are theirs, not ours. Blurring the line between who's in the intelligence business is strike one. Placing everyone outside the administration as complete outsiders to the affairs of the nation is strike two.

Shitting on democracy every damn day...you're out. Way out.
Bit NOLA | 05.16.06 - 6:27 pm | #

what a rocker
rend | 05.16.06 - 6:27 pm | #

Hey, it's not like he called Les a tar baby though he did go with the more formal, "Lester" and he called Lance Armstrong, Lance Anderson. Maybe he can have a press gaggle after the press conferences to apologize for his malpropisms during the press conference. It's hard to go from critic to suck up in such a short time. Hang in there, SnowJob, you're just getting your legs under you as part of this unbelieveably corrupt regime.
paul Miller | 05.16.06 - 6:27 pm | #

Okay, so he said a phrase that can be used as a slur, in a way that was obviously not intended to be a slur. Making a big deal out of non-issues like this only serves to drown out your voice when there is actually something that needs to be highlighted.

Should be be offended when someone asks for crackers? What if I develop a chink in my armor? My god, earlier I cleaned my floor with Spic-and-Span! I own a coon skin cap!

See? It's just as stupid as this.
blahblah | 05.16.06 - 6:29 pm | #

I give Snow three months tops. He is in way over his deluded head. He thought that the world was like Faux News, that he was a to-be-pampered star in his new job.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:29 pm | #

Big fucking deal.

So he used an antiquated term that 'could be' interpreted as racist -- and here's the key -- in CERTAIN CONTEXTS.

So what?

I say we call a spade a spade here and allow that unless someone is expressly using an innocuous term in an offensive way, then we're not going to jump all over them for it.

Also, unless you are an actual member of the supposedly offended group, then you don't get to complain.

PS: When are them darkies gonna get over that whole 'slavery' thing anyway?
Bobby Jones | 05.16.06 - 6:30 pm | #

You have to excuse Tony.
It was a slip of the tongue.

He meant to say "Porch Monkey"
Plug | 05.16.06 - 6:30 pm | #

The reason Snow uses such language is he in company of people that think nothing of using that and far more racist language.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:31 pm | #

Bit NOLA | 05.16.06 - 6:27 pm |

Like Bit NOLA, I'm more concerned about the ridiculousness of someone essentially saying, "There's no reason for you to be worried about a program that I can neither confirm of deny the existence of." Never mind that the President already acknowledged its existence. This does not do wonders for Snow or Bush's "credibility."
Batocchio | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:33 pm | #

ESPN won't use that reference for a linebacker.
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:33 pm | #

Mostly, I heard the term in the mid to late 60's in the American South, directed at blacks as a slur. Recently I have heard the term used as a slur against Arabs. I would think that Mr. Snow, fine Southern gentleman or not, would understand that the derogatory usage makes this analogy a poor choice.

Gregory,

I do have to admit my own ignorance on this one (A curable disease in this case. Because now I know)

As a northeastern city brat, my exposure to southern racism is limited to second hand accounts.

So, you're absolutely right. Crappy choice of words.

Racism is a huge problem, and not just in our country. It needs to be dealt with and should not be tolerated.

To quote Tom Lehrer, "I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I HATE PEOPLE LIKE THAT!"

Still, how does quibbling over a bad turn of phrase solve anything, especially when said in this context? I still have to allow for benefit of the doubt.

In the grand scheme of things, there are more important issues at stake right now.
Mostly Harmless | 05.16.06 - 6:35 pm | #

They should hire Stephen Colbert.
Magma Report | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:35 pm | #

That was a deliberated attack on African-Americans. He’s saying he isn’t a n-word lover... not going against the white populace.

I would like to see him wiggled out of this.

This reminds me of the white woman saying she doesn't want the gorilla children from Katrina in her school.

Bush chose the right Press Secy.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe | 05.16.06 - 6:35 pm | #

"I'm beginning to wonder if this tar baby wasn't really a red herring."

A red herring? That stinks.

Seriously from what we he trying to distract us?
Anonymous | 05.16.06 - 6:35 pm | #

There's a few antisemites here. Of course they're too pussy to admit it.
Cato the Yankee | 05.16.06 - 6:18 pm | #

Plenty of the, I can attest to that.

*****************

biff,
The second that Rove is actually indicted then we will be talking about nothing else.

Just killing time, waiting for the main event to start.
Gregory | 05.16.06 - 6:19 pm | #

Rove's pending(?) indictment concerns me. If he only gets indicted on the same thing Libby did, lying to the grand jury, then the right wing will brush it off to their audience. It would be so much better if we could get either of them, any of them on the actual case,

INTENTIONAL OUTING OF A CIA AGENT IN RETALIATION OF WILSON'S FINDINGS ON YELLOW CAKE.

...or even if we can add to the case, how the info on Plame got to the white house in the first place.. who outed her on that end? it would be very useful to know, from a political point of view..
BJ | Homepage | 05.16.06 - 6:35 pm | #

Oh...c'mon! It's an allusion! It's also a Disney cartoon and part of a theme park ride. I think Tony Snow's a big a douche as the next person, but this is just overly sensitive idiocy. Let him screw up in his own time. If history has taught us anything, it is that members of the Bush administration eventually will. There's no need to dig for dirt with which to smear him.
Frank | 05.16.06 - 6:39 pm | #

Yes, he used the term in its original meaning, from the Brer Rabbit story. There was no racial element to it, and you'd have to bend his comment into a bowtie to find one.

Don't leap all over someone -- even some nimrod from the Bush "Nimrods'R'Us!" Administration. It's a cheap shot, and dilutes the CrooksAndLiars reputation and impact.

Even though it's easy, even though it's a gimme -- when someone uses a phrase like this, or the word "niggardly" -- if they use it correctly, let it stand! Don't argue against correct word-usage, just for small points.

- Tom
TKel | 05.16.06 - 6:39 pm | #

It's a literary reference to The Uncle Remus Tales. Any one making a big deal about this is just looking for a reason to pick on Tony Snow. BELIEVE ME, there will be MUCH worse things coming out of Tony Snow's mouth in the near future than this. Personally, I don't think Snow is cut out for this job, and this little flub is just a small example of things to come. Remember: the WH press corps will fall all over themselves to try to be Tony's favorite so that they'll get called on more, and that will go on for several weeks, regardless of what the WH does. -
10sfg | 05.16.06 - 6:39 pm | #